February 28, 2011

"The administration of Gov. Scott Walker abruptly locked out protesters from the Capitol on Monday morning..."

The NYT reports:
About 60 demonstrators who had slept in the statehouse overnight remained inside as of noon Monday, and they banged drums, sang and danced in the rotunda. They had access to restrooms and, given the dwindling size of the group, appeared to have a decent supply of food. There was no indication that the police were preparing to arrest or eject them, and several said in interviews that they had no intention of leaving.
Meade saw this in person today, took video which we'll have later, and will describe what he saw in the comments to this post.

It seems to me that the governor figured out a way to gradually and undramatically end the occupation of the Capitol.

157 comments:

Quayle said...

“Politicians may not always enjoy hearing what the citizens of this state have to say, but it is wrong to block elected officials from their constituents,” Mr. Barca said in a statement. “This silencing of public input is an unacceptable and disturbing trend during these budget debates.”

Mr. Barca is a dope.

shoutingthomas said...

This statement, given the actions of the fleebaggers, is precious:

Peter Barca, the leader of the Democrats in the state Assembly, which is the lower house, called the closure “not acceptable.”

“Politicians may not always enjoy hearing what the citizens of this state have to say, but it is wrong to block elected officials from their constituents,” Mr. Barca said in a statement. “This silencing of public input is an unacceptable and disturbing trend during these budget debates.”

POLITICIANS MAY NOT ALWAYS ENJOY HEARING WHAT THE CITIZENS OF THIS STATE HAVE TO SAY!

I believe that is called voting. The fleebaggers refuse to accept the result of an election.

Do these people have any idea what they are saying and doing?

Fen said...

Why bother reading the NYTs? Half the quotes are simply made up. You might as well be reading fiction.

NotYourTypicalNewYorker said...

I agree with the Governors approach, let them die on the vine.

Rich B said...

So at last the adults come in and take the keys from the juveniles.

Triangle Man said...

Confirming Violent Intentions of Tea Party Althouse Commenter Proclaims "let them die...".

Maguro said...

Abruptly!

Because the poor hippies only had the run of the place for 2 weeks before they were abruptly locked out . How uncivil of WalkerHitler. No wonder garage hates his guts.

Fen said...

If I let you die, there's no violence involved.

And yes, in such a circumstance, you are responsible for your own death.

EDH said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fen said...

Then, two hours later, the department issued another statement saying that no protesters would be allowed back inside the Capitol until the demonstrators still there complied with a law enforcement request to remain in a designated area of the building.

“Officers in the building are continuing to work with those few individuals to gain their compliance,” the statement said.


ie. the Union Brats inside violated the non-agression pact they had with Police.

Gee, didn't see that one coming...

Lincolntf said...

Looking forward to the video (and fervently praying that the end of this embarrassing debacle is in sight).

John M Auston said...

Walker should say this:

"The IN doors will of course be unlocked, under this one circumstance - to let in any of the 14 Dem Senators currently on the lam. Protesters are more than welcome to follow the Senators in. "

traditionalguy said...

Did Meade take any more of those Rude pictures?

DADvocate said...

Now the evil plans can be implemented. Bwahahahahahaha!

traditionalguy said...

It is all about establishing boundaries. With boundaries accepted and enforced people can work and live in peace. Without boundaries their world becomes a living hell.

Phil 3:14 said...

At some point the few remaining will be shouting:

ATTICA! ATTICA! ATTICA! ATTICA ATTICA! ATTICA! ATTICA! ATTICA! ATTICA! ATTICA!

and vociferously insisting they
had a plan

MadisonMan said...

It is not a good idea for the State to curtail the right of free speech.

In the case of prohibiting entry into the Capitol, have they read the Wisconsin Constitution?

The right of the people peaceably to assemble, to consult for the common good, and to petition the government, or any department thereof, shall never be abridged.


The legislature cannot prohibit an individual from entering the capitol or its grounds.

Constitution

You might argue about what constitutes the Common Good. I think Courts have interpreted that phrase to be very very broad.

garage mahal said...

It seems to me that the governor figured out a way to gradually and undramatically end the occupation of the Capitol.

You get 'em you constitoooshanal law professor you! Who cares if it's legal!

traditionalguy said...

There is a rumor that Scott Walker will hire some of duty TSA guys to help make the Capitol safe from terrorists. Enjoy the line.

Fen said...

Ah, all of a sudden Garage cares about legality. What a farce.

Revenant said...

You get 'em you constitoooshanal law professor you! Who cares if it's legal!

Certainly not you. :)

Alex said...

You get 'em you constitoooshanal law professor you! Who cares if it's legal!

Explain me how it's legal for protestors to occupy the Capitol building indefinitely.

garage mahal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Calypso Facto said...

The Journal Sentinel is now reporting that the closing is due to a security threat this morning involving the protesters.

Maguro said...

You might argue about what constitutes the Common Good. I think Courts have interpreted that phrase to be very very broad.

Broad enough to permit continuous occupation of the Capitol for weeks on end? Really?

Roger J. said...

madison man cites the wisconsin constitution--and it does look like that a strict construction of that document might permit protestors to occupy any government office.

Now a hypothetical for madison man (and I do hate hypotheticals but the legal profession seems to get off on them)--So do the bill of rights afford american citizens the right to peaceably assemble--does that right extend to occupying the US capitol building? or even better, the west wing of the white house?

Revenant said...

MM,

The legislature cannot prohibit an individual from entering the capitol or its grounds.

That's a quote from a court ruling, not from the state constitution -- unless I'm reading that link incorrectly?

From the other rulings it sounds like the "assembly" right isn't subject to strict scrutiny and that unlawful assemblies can be banned outright.

It sounds like the police are letting people in who actually have business inside, e.g. who are there to petition the government. That will probably pass muster in court; the right to assemble has not generally been interpreted as a right to squat on public property indefinitely.

PatHMV said...

MadisonMan, the line you quote about the legislature not being able to prohibit an individual from entering the capitol or its grounds is NOT in the Wisconsin Constitution. It's a one-sentence summary of undoubtedly a much longer opinion issued by the Wisconsin Attorney General. That opinion may (or may not) be much more limited than suggested by the one-sentence summary written by someone else.

I see that this meme has travelled broadly in liberal blogger circles, but nobody seems to have yet bothered to actually pull the opinion and see what it actually says.

Professor, could you perhaps access 59 Atty. Gen. 8 in the library's collection of Wisconsin Attorney General Opinions and tell us what it says?

jaed said...

Perhaps the state of Wisconsin could build or rent a building nearby, for the legislators to meet and their staff members to work.

That way, these strictly secondary purposes would not interfere with the primary purpose of the capitol building, which apparently is serving as a dorm/dining facility/meeting room for protesters and as a backdrop for taped-up signs.

(wv: sumsour. Sum are sour over these protests. "No freebies, no peace!")

Ut said...

"Broad enough to permit continuous occupation of the Capitol for weeks on end?"

And also for the express purposes of preventing our legislature from operating.

Keep in mind: These Democrats don't want a vote to occur. They've fled the state to prevent democracy from occurring. And they've occupied OUR building to prevent OUR democracy from occurring.

These aren't citizens.

They're government officials occupying OUR FUCKING building - the PEOPLE's building - in order to PREVENT the citizens, through their elected representatives, from enacting democratic laws.

These government officials should be arrested for high treason, given fair trials and then hung.

Paddy O said...

"The legislature cannot prohibit an individual from entering the capitol or its grounds."

I don't think the governor is part of the legislature.

MadisonMan said...

Broad enough to permit continuous occupation of the Capitol for weeks on end?

As I noted in the previous thread, I have no problem with banning sleeping bags, blankets, pillows, etc., from being taken into the Capitol. Bedding articles are doing nothing related to free speech. The Halls should be open for Citizens whenever the Legislature is debating something -- and during normal business hours.

MadisonMan said...

or even better, the west wing of the white house?

Reasonable restrictions can be made in the name of Security. Security at the US Capitol and at the White House will be a little bit more strict than in a State Capitol.

Michael The Magnificent said...

Could this civil disobedience be a setup for a Kent State scenario in order to shift public sentiment to the left?

zbogwan99 said...

People do have a right to protest at the Wisconsin Capitol, but they don't have a right to sleep over, cook food there and deface the walls with all of their Union Posters.

Gov. Walker is a smart one not engaging these protesters physically, but there may come a time where he'll have to enforce rules?

Jay said...

MadisonMan, the line you quote about the legislature not being able to prohibit an individual from entering the capitol or its grounds is NOT in the Wisconsin Constitution.

You mean someone who has spent the past two weeks posting deliberate mis-reprentations on this issue is at it again?

I'm shocked.

Quayle said...

“This silencing of public input is an unacceptable and disturbing

Having been given the right to vote, they demand the right to demonstrate and speak publicly.

Having been given the right to demonstrate and speak publicly, they demand the right to demonstrate and speak anywhere and anytime they so choose.

Having been given the right to occupy the building and bang their drums, they want the right to not show up for their government jobs and still get paid.

Having been given the right to represent a voting citizenry, they want the right to not show up to represent the citizenry.

Having been given the right to speak and demonstrate, they want the right to shut-up and shut down anyone else that disagrees with them. They want the right to slander and threaten both body and livelihood.

Their enabling union police officers want the right to threaten a citizen journalist with arrest for supposedly bumping an officer, all based on false and made-up testimony.

What a despicable, spoiled rotten lot these lefties are. All me, me, me - my rights, my rights, my rights - with nary a thought for the law, for decency, or of others.

Fred4Pres said...

Protestors routinely go to the capitols, as they should. But they don't routinely camp out in capitol buildings.

Petitioning government and free speech are important rights that should not be abridged, but those rights do not trump all other rights. And ulitmiately there is a way to get rid of government you disagree with: vote them out.

MadisonMan said...

Perhaps the state of Wisconsin could build or rent a building nearby, for the legislators to meet and their staff members to work.

Or for God's sake, as if the State hasn't built enough buildings to house departments already down around the Capitol and elsewhere.

The problem with the Govt building buildings is it then feels justified in filling those new buildings with new workers.

Revenant said...

The Halls should be open for Citizens whenever the Legislature is debating something -- and during normal business hours.

I would agree. However, the authorities have good reason to believe that the protesters will refuse to leave once business hours are over.

Scott M said...

Could this civil disobedience be a setup for a Kent State scenario in order to shift public sentiment to the left?

Highly doubtful. Shoot you once, shame on you. Shoot you twice, shame on me.

madawaskan said...

MadisonMan

Well you could say that the protesters by camping overnight and reserving the space were impeding and limiting the entry of other citizens.

Also by monopolizing the space and the signage they could be in violation of this section of the Constitution-perhaps:

Content neutral size restrictions placed on a banner proclaiming “Church/State — Separate,” after it was hung in the state capitol rotunda, served the state’s significant interest in protecting the capitol from visual degradation.

*******

Now granted Madison is an island on to itself of Liberals so those opposed to the union actions probably would have snow ball's chance in Berkeley of getting heard-so the need of the unions to monopolize the space-is unjustified.

Still they did it.

Fen said...

MadisonMan: Reasonable restrictions can be made in the name of Security. Security at the US Capitol and at the White House will be a little bit more strict than in a State Capitol.

Ha. I just knew it would be "different" when it involved Obama.

madawaskan said...

You could argue that the campers for 12 days impeded every other citizen's access to the Capitol.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

@Revenant

"However, the authorities have good reason to believe that the protesters will refuse to leave once business hours are over."

Really? Maybe it has something to do with the accommodating stance adopted since they started demonstrating.

Perhaps someone should let them know that a key vote was held Friday morning, and they lost.

No means no, and no amount of holding their breath will change that.

garage mahal said...

When you're down to barricading windows, bringing in dogs, threatening layoffs for not getting your way, and threatening to call out the National Guard, there's something seriously wrong with your agenda. But can see why conservatives like the guy. They loves that Big Daddy Figure!

MadisonMan said...

However, the authorities have good reason to believe that the protesters will refuse to leave once business hours are over.

That's why you don't let them take in bedding.

madawaskan said...

It's a bit like Grateful Dead fans refusing to leave Madison Square Garden.

Do they have a right to monopolize the space?

Scott M said...

Someone must have struck Garage down, because he's become a more powerful tool than we could possibly imagine.

Maguro said...

Garage - Walker and the Republicans won the election, why shouldn't they get their way?

madawaskan said...

What was the rational for the pro union protesters to sleep in the Capitol building-

Why did they do that?

What was the purpose?

Roger J. said...

Sorry Madison Man--your "right" apparently depends on the degree to which such "peaceable assaembly" crashes on the rock of security--do you still see that right as absolute--looks to me like your argument is flawed--its ok is some circumstances but not in others--then it isnt a right, is it.

AST said...

Why shouldn't anybody feel free to camp out in public buildings? What used to be public nuisances and now Constitutional rights. .

Jay said...

garage mahal said...

When you're down to barricading windows, bringing in dogs, threatening layoffs for not getting your way, and threatening to call out the National Guard,


Hysterical depiction of the situation.

Meade said...

PatHMV said...

Professor, could you perhaps access 59 Atty. Gen. 8 in the library's collection of Wisconsin Attorney General Opinions and tell us what it says?

The professor is giving a class at the moment but if she somehow misses this request, I will be sure to point it out to her this evening.

I realize, in this post, she promised I would join the discussion. I meant to but I got a little busy. Hey, wine boxes don't just grow feet and walk from the wine store to our ice box. SOMEone has to chauffeur them. And then of course there was the press pass procurement thing...

Anyway, we will both be back in an hour or so. So carry on. Try not to let garage mahal hurt himself.

Thanks in advance.

MadisonMan said...

It's a bit like Grateful Dead fans refusing to leave Madison Square Garden.

It's nothing like that. MSG Inc. is a private company and can admit or toss people as it sees fit.

I don't know if the monopolizing the space argument would fly either. I'm trying not to use the phrase Squatter's Rights -- but a person who is protesting against the government at a spot -- can they be moved because someone with a contrary view wants the same spot? (IANAL)

Roger J. said...

Here's the only "right" that I see: the republicans won--deal with it. Now I will be more than happy to send a case of KY Jelly to the dems (and garage) to make it a bit smoother when the republicans ram their agenda up your asses. I mean I am really a sensitive kind of guy.

if you dont like it, then vote walker and the republicans out in the next election.

We won, mofos--deal with it.

Jay said...

threatening layoffs for not getting your way,

The layoffs are going to happen no matter what.

madawaskan said...

Hey, wine boxes don't just grow feet and walk from the wine store to our ice box. SOMEone has to chauffeur them

LOL! Plus damn those things are heavy.

Fen said...

That's why you don't let them take in bedding.

They have matts and sleeping bags.

And bedbugs. I hope they all take bedbugs home with them.

Fen said...

Meade: And then of course there was the press pass procurement thing...

Was there a Oath of Loyalty to Marx? I've always wondered.

madawaskan said...

MadisonMan

That's why I used the clause-" a bit like".

I'm trying to demonstrate their monopolization of a public space.(-I get the public/private distinction.)

So what was the purpose of them sleeping overnight-why did they decide to do that?

What did they hope to achieve?

Roger J. said...

Madison Man--I have always had a profound respect for your opinion (and on your personal humanity on more mundane issues such as the loss of a family pet)--I gotta tell you, though, on this one I think you are profoundly wrong. Doesnt mean I dont respect your views, but on this one it seems to me you lost it.

garage mahal said...

Try not to let garage mahal hurt himself.

Hey buddy, I'm not the one bossing people around at the rallies, shoving cameras in faces, harassing cops, and trying to butt through lines. But, I'm not a "citizens journalist" from the Althouse blog like yourself. LOLZ

Wait a minute, you're not one of those "troublemakers" Walker talked about sending to the protests, are you?

madawaskan said...

MadisonMan

Must have been typing at cross purposes...

Good question....

I would think because it Is a public space-that is very limited...I would think that would counter the squatter's right aspect.

Weird has there ever been such an indoor with heating and plumbing protest before?

Could be a new one.

Fen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fen said...

Garage: Hey buddy, I'm not the one bossing people around at the rallies, shoving cameras in faces, harassing cops, and trying to butt through lines. But, I'm not a "citizens journalist" from the Althouse blog like yourself. LOLZ!

So much hyperbole, so little sense.

But I love the "LOLZ". Dude ur leet skilz pwned da noob...

madawaskan said...

Let's see could the Tea Party max out the capacity of the Nation's.Capitol and sleep overnight in order to maintain their occupation?

Why or why not?

MayBee said...

If I were an advocate for the homeless, I'd move a few of my homeless people into the WI Capitol building the next time it opens.

Revenant said...

When you're down to barricading windows, bringing in dogs, threatening layoffs for not getting your way, and threatening to call out the National Guard, there's something seriously wrong with your agenda.

I grew up in a place where the federal government's agenda had, quite recently, forced it to set up barricades, bring in troops and dogs, cut funding, and threaten people with prison time -- all because local government employees were bitterly opposed to that agenda.

It is interesting to learn that the above proves there was something "seriously wrong" with forcing public schools to admit black students.

madawaskan said...

And let's say you could find a legal right for the Tea Party to maintain their occupation of the nation's capitol would that be a good move politically?

MadisonMan said...

why did they decide to do that?

I'm not sure why. In retrospect, a big mistake. Although the first day/night -- it was because (I recall) that the hearings went all night. But after that? Probably inertia. But we could stay last night, why not tonight?

Requiring people to leave and come back tomorrow because the building is closing doesn't seem to me to be an onerous imposition. Not letting them in at all is, IMO.

If the Legislature is meeting, or holding hearings, people should be able to come and go freely to make their case as they see fit. If there's nobody there but the protestors? I have no problem with saying Come back tomorrow.

Richard Dolan said...

From a quick scan of the Wisconsin constitution, the only specific provision I saw that might be relevant is Art. IV, sec 10: "The doors of each
house shall be kept open except when the public welfare shall
require secrecy." That's not about treating the Capitol building itself as a traditional open public forum, but instead sounds like a kind of 'open meetings' provision, intended to guarantee the right of the public to monitor the doings of the legislature.

From an earlier post by Ann, I had the impression that the Capitol building has traditionally been open to the public as a forum for protests. If so, then access would be subject only to neutral time, place and manner restrictions.

Two weeks of continuous 24/7 occupancy by one group of protesters is likely to satisfy any obligation in that regard. There is a difference between opening a public forum to all comers and allowing it to be taken over by a particular group. It reminds me a bit of the efforts, during Guliani Time in NYC, by homeless groups and their advocates to take over the public parks. Giuliani ultimately decided to enforce the 'no camping out' rules against the squatters in Tompins Square Park. It didn't make the park any less of a public forum, but it did make sure that it remained open to others besides the squatters and for other uses besides squatting.

Roger J. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Calypso Facto said...

I'd move a few of my homeless people into the WI Capitol building

The homeless didn't need any advocates, MayBee, they were way ahead of you. As soon as this protest occupation started all the regular panhandlers from State Street were in the Capitol enjoying the heat, clean bathrooms, and free pizza! Maybe they are the final 60 to move out...

Calypso Facto said...

Walker's response to Obama's "vilify public workers" statement:

“I'm sure the President knows that most federal employees do not have collective bargaining for wages and benefits while our plan allows it for base pay. And I'm sure the President knows that the average federal worker pays twice as much for health insurance as what we are asking for in Wisconsin. At least I would hope he knows these facts.

“Furthermore, I’m sure the President knows that we have repeatedly praised the more than 300,000 government workers who come to work every day in Wisconsin.

“I’m sure that President Obama simply misunderstands the issues in Wisconsin, and isn’t acting like the union bosses in saying one thing and doing another.”


Ouch. That could leave a mark.

Jay said...

At least I would hope he knows these facts.

Actually, those facts are part of a long list of items Obama is wholly ignorant on.

Phil 3:14 said...

MM;
Security at the US Capitol and at the White House will be a little bit more strict than in a State Capitol.

You mean you're more concerned for the safety and welfare of Michelle Bachmann than your state legislators. Gosh, that's big of you!

Roger J. said...

I wish the citizens of Wisconsin luck and hope their preferences on the 2010 election are carried out. If the opposition wishes to change the direction of the election they have but to vote their opponents out in the next election.

This contretemps has been an illustrative example on the rules by which democrats play--and it isnt very pretty.

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

I have no problem with saying Come back tomorrow

And in a perfect world people would act responsibly instead of like spoiled children.

By the way, hundreds of protesters remain in the building from last night despite being told to leave. What do you suggest, a forced clearing of the building every night so these folks can feel like martyrs?

madawaskan said...

Requiring people to leave and come back tomorrow because the building is closing doesn't seem to me to be an onerous imposition. Not letting them in at all is, IMO.

Possible except for the fact that they've demonstrated a lack of willingness to comply...for 12 days.

Jay said...

Since garage is a class warrior, I wander what the thoughts are on these WEA Trust compensation packages?

The company’s CEO, Fred Evart, made $333,375 in salary in 2007, with a total compensation package of $469,522, according to tax records filed by the company. Eleven employees under Evart received total compensation packages worth at least $181,792.

See, to the left that is "capitalism"

Fen said...

“I’m sure that President Obama simply misunderstands the issues in Wisconsin, and isn’t acting like the union bosses in saying one thing and doing another.”

No. DHOTUS is retreating back into his role of Community Organzier because his Presidential duties make him feel impotent.

Mary said...

"It seems to me that the governor figured out a way to gradually and undramatically end the occupation of the Capitol."

But if there are still ANY demonstrators left inside, with a decent supply of food, then how do you figure the occupation is over?

They all need to be removed. No special treatment for the holdouts, the ones who apparently never left.

Fen said...

Its the only thing he's good at.

Well, that and using a teleprompter.

Donald Douglas said...

Linked: 'Wisconsin Police Union in Solidarity with Progressives, Socialists, and Big Labor Squatters'.

madawaskan said...

As to the Guiliani remedy if you read the WI Constitution there is a section in there about not allowing camping overnight at the Capitol Park.

MadisonMan said...

What do you suggest, a forced clearing of the building every night so these folks can feel like martyrs?

WPR was interviewing some "martyrs" this morning, and it was dreadful listening. One sounded like she wished she would have been arrested. Then I think even she realized how batshite crazy she sounded because she backtracked and allowed how it's a good thing not to have an arrest record.

madawaskan said...

The government’s substantial interest in maintaining the park in the heart of the
capital in an attractive condition sustained a regulation against camping or over-
night sleeping in public parks. Free speech was not denied. Clark v. Community
for Creative Non−violence, 468 U.S. 288 (1984)

Fen said...

I say no more fun and games. Tell them to vacate or be declared terrorists. Arrest the stragglers and let them sit in Gitmo for 6 months.

The reason they mock the authorities is because you've made it a fad. You've made it fun. Get serious or endure more of this sillyness.

jaed said...

@madisonman:
"Perhaps the state of Wisconsin could build or rent a building nearby, for the legislators to meet and their staff members to work."

as if the State hasn't built enough buildings to house departments already down around the Capitol and elsewhere.

Did you utterly miss the point of my snark? (I admit it was a bit dry.)

That point is that the protesters are making it difficult to use the Capitol for its primary purpose, which is not (to reiterate) as a dorm and meeting hall. Surely the point at which they can be kicked out (or at least limited in the number allowed to sit in the building) has been reached long before that, for reasons which have nothing to do with the right to petition and assemble.

For that matter I seem to remember that while a tea party protest was permitted on the Capitol grounds, only a small symbolic contingent was permitted to actually enter the building, if we're going to talk about content neutrality.

The end point of your position that protesters must have completely unfettered access is, in fact, the absurdity I proposed. No?

madawaskan said...

There's also this FWIW:

A statute that makes it unlawful within regulated areas for any person to “know-
ingly approach” within eight feet of another person, without that person’s consent, “for the purpose of passing a leaflet or handbill to, displaying a sign to, or engaging in oral protest, education, or counseling with such other person” is constitutional.
Hill v. Colorado, 530 U.S. 703, 147 L. Ed. 2d 597 (2000)

madawaskan said...

SInce the space is prime and "limited" -I'd throw that at 'em.

Fen said...

How did they come up with 8 feet?

madawaskan said...

Donald Douglas

Damnit I'm loving that -

"Big Labor Squatters." ha!

Hoosier Daddy said...

Again, Walker should just raise taxes to fund these important and necessary jobs.

My recommendation would be a special tax on those individuals who make six figures or more. A 7% levy should do the trick. An additional $1000 annual excise tax on any Wisconsin resident who drives a BMW would also make up any shortfalls and ensure the teachers union enjoy a bountiful retirement.

madawaskan said...

How did they come up with 8 feet?

Well hell if you're lying down in the Capitol, I know that if Trooper were here he might say-that someone else would say-

8 feet is racist.

Joe said...

How did they come up with 8 feet?

Further than most people can spontaneously spit?

Don't Tread 2012 said...

@MadisonMan

"WPR was interviewing some "martyrs" this morning, and it was dreadful listening. One sounded like she wished she would have been arrested. Then I think even she realized how batshite crazy she sounded because she backtracked and allowed how it's a good thing not to have an arrest record."

DOH!

I think 'batshite crazy' is apt.

How about this, as a 'compromise' to the people that insist on jumping up and down and holding their breath:

(5PM ANNOUNCEMENT)

"Good Evening.

It is 5pm, and the capitol building is closed. The capitol re-opens in the morning for business.

Anyone remaining in the building after 5pm will be asked to leave.

Good nite, and have a safe trip home."

Anyone remaining should be arrested for trespassing.

Fen said...

How about a 5% income tax if you belong to a Union? That would be rich.

madawaskan said...

Well seriously for a minute if you are laying down on the job of-"protesting" aren't you taking up the space of three standing protesters and/or ordinary upstanding citizens of WI?

madawaskan said...

Maybe it's got something to do with fencing...

Carol_Herman said...

I understand the Capitol Building in Madison, Wisconsin IS a public building. With hours posted on the door, when the building is open.

Now, I have two questions.

How did the protesters get access to the second floor?

And, what of the 60 protesters that are left? Are they ALL from Wisconsin?

Should be an "interesting" Tuesday Night speech, that Governor Walker will give! Interesting that it's going to be a national stage. And, the good possibilities outweigh the democrap's advantage.

Matthew said...

It's so abrupt we've been hearing about it for -days-!

edutcher said...

I'm sure the Gray Lady was hoping for some scenario similar to MacArthur giving the Bonus Marchers the boot. Walker has played it very smart.

Better Presidential timbre than what's reading off TOTUS these days.

madawaskan said...

Another argument that could be made-rumor has it that 600 policemen crossed over to the side of the protesters, and that the Madison police force did not co-operate with the Capitol police force when they requested vehicles to transport those that might be arrested.

Essentially the police union joining the protesters has made the guarantee of keeping the peace inside the Capitol more questionable and potentially less manageable.

Given those new conditions the Capitol cannot operate as normal.

Mumpsimus said...

I don't see why Walker would want to end the "occupation," gradually or otherwise. For as long as it lasts, the public face of his opposition will be hippies banging drums in a public building.

Alex said...

Essentially the police union joining the protesters has made the guarantee of keeping the peace inside the Capitol more questionable and potentially less manageable.

At that point Gov Walker declares martial law and calls in the National Guard. To have police officers crossing over into protestors is a line that CAN NOT be allowed to be crossed.

Alex said...

I don't see why Walker would want to end the "occupation," gradually or otherwise. For as long as it lasts, the public face of his opposition will be hippies banging drums in a public building.

Do you think the average Wisconsinite is with the hippie thugs? I bet 90% of them are absolutely outraged and livid about this and want Walker to bring the HAMMER OF GOD down on them.

madawaskan said...

Alex

You know what Titus would say-

Outrageous...

madawaskan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
David53 said...

Again, Walker should just raise taxes to fund these important and necessary jobs.

And how about a tax per each child. You have five kids in school? $2,000 per child per year until the kid graduates or joins the military.

I have to pay $3,300 per year to my school district and I don't even have any kids! That's just not right.

Martin L. Shoemaker said...

One of the rallying cries at the founding of our country was "No taxation without representation."

14 districts in Wisconsin are only getting half their representation. They're represented in the Assembly, but not in the Senate.

I suggest they occupy the capitol and demand that their state taxes get cut 50% for the duration of time they're not properly represented. I know, the state can't afford it; but "the state can't afford it" is apparently not a persuasive argument in Madison these days.

Fred4Pres said...

This is the problem.

On a state level it is only slightly less bad because they can't wrack up the debt the way the federal government can.

Hoosier Daddy said...

And how about a tax per each child. You have five kids in school? $2,000 per child per year until the kid graduates or joins the military.

You know that is an excellent idea. Considering that bringing more children into an already crowded and polluted planet, I would also suggest an annual $250 carbon tax as well.

Chip Ahoy said...

STOP THE PRESSES !!!

Amy Goodman washed her hair.

(Says conditioner is still out of the question.)

Don't Tread 2012 said...

@Fred

Not a pretty picture.

There has to be an alternate reality.

wv - affumunt

PatHMV said...

Meade, thanks. That one-liner summary of the AG opinion really is making the rounds in the liberal blogging circuit, as a brief Google search of "59 Atty. Gen. 8" will show. It would be worth a post, I think, to clear up the record that it's not a part of the constitution, and to let us know what exactly the opinion says, in context.

AprilApple said...

Time to go home, children. If not - then pick up a mop and a bucket and start cleaning up after your sorry selves.

Kirby Olson said...

In most jobs if someone doesn't show up for work they get fired. Why are legislators immune to this?

Carol_Herman said...

Yesterday, at the White House, ALL the governors met for a banquet. So, basically, I'd guess Scott Walker was in DC.

The media has no idea, any longer, about what transpires.

IF the local police crossed the line, they'll be fired. There's enough time, ahead, to call out the National Guard!

HOWEVER, the cooperating faces of the police helping the protestors hasn't really set off alarm bells. IF ANYTHING it's a change of pace the protesters didn't expect.

While what does surprise me? Being able to come into a State Capitol Building with pillows, blankets, and sleeping mats. Oh, and crates of wine. And, food to cook over barbecues. Maybe, ahead, someone will do a cookbook "survival guide."

The could call it "LIVING INSIDE THE MANSION."

Governor Walker is ahead!

Reminds me that back in 1966, when Ronald Reagan was running for governor, Berkeley was going through a student rioting stage. And, here's what Reagan said:

"Will we meet the Berkeley students' NEUROTIC VULGARITIES with vacillation and weakness, or will we tell those entrusted with administering the university we expect them to enforce a code based on decency, common sense, and dedication to the noble purpose of the university?"

Reagan's reputation has swelled over time, for a very good reason!

wordsmith2 said...

Carol Herman: (Sorry in advance if this sounds snarky) "How did the protesters get access to the second floor?" They walked up the stairs.

The capitol in Madison is normally quite accessible to visitors, who appreciate the grandeur and the hushed solemnity of the workings of the state. Apparently this is the only state capitol in the nation with the governor's office, both houses of the legislature, and the supreme court all housed under one roof.

For the past two weeks, I've found it quite painful to witness the visual and aural pollution that the protesters are inflicting on not only the physical structure but also the staffers who are trying to get their jobs done.

I would be filing a grievance with my union over working conditions, if it were me. Vuvuzuelas and drums in a marble echo chamber? These protesters better have good health insurance to pay for the hearing aids they're going to need.

madawaskan said...

well they are also saying that the Defending Wisconsin PAC just filed a lawsuit in US District Court....

Maybe you can find it in their filing.

Someone here might have access to Westlaw and come in w/ it.

MadisonMan said...

Apparently this is the only state capitol in the nation with the governor's office, both houses of the legislature, and the supreme court all housed under one roof.

I did not know that -- shows how many other Capitol buildings I've visited I guess. But when the most beautiful one in the country is in your own back yard, so to speak, why look elsewhere?

madawaskan said...

Never mind that idea:

Meanwhile, the man who is organizing a recall effort against the governor filed a hand-written request for an injunction in U.S. District Court in Madison Monday seeking to reopen the Capitol. In it, Jeremy Ryan of Defending Wisconsin PAC is seeking $10 million to be paid to the protesters for the alleged violation of their civil rights.

[ LaCrosse Tribune ]

MadisonMan said...

It would be worth a post, I think, to clear up the record that it's not a part of the constitution, and to let us know what exactly the opinion says, in context.

I suspect a person was annoying the Legislature by lobbying for something. They tried to bar him from the Capitol. AG said no. I added that line mostly in case the Legislators (who read althouse :) ) decided to shut off accesss.

I think the more relevant line is the first line I posted from the Constitution.

David53 said...

You know that is an excellent idea. Considering that bringing more children into an already crowded and polluted planet, I would also suggest an annual $250 carbon tax as well.

we need to just cut to the chase and say, "What would China do?"

David said...

Abruptly?

That's a riot.

Maybe the protestors will abruptly go back to work.

Or, more likely, abruptly get a job.

David53 said...

Jeremy Ryan of Defending Wisconsin PAC is seeking $10 million to be paid to the protesters for the alleged violation of their civil rights.

THE Jeremy we all love and respect? Couldn't be...

Peano said...

Should have used fire hoses. Blast out the hippies and the garbage in one stroke. But I repeat myself.

kent said...

Maybe the protestors will abruptly go back to work.

Or, more likely, abruptly get a job.


"... but Mommmmmmmmmmmmm! I'm busy raging against the MACHIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNE -- !!!"

Fen said...

seeking $10 million to be paid to the protesters for the alleged violation of their civil rights.

Ah yes, thanks for the reminder that we also need tort reform.

Loser pays.

Lawyers, you're next.

S said...

I seem to be largely on the side of MadisonMan here: the building should be open when the legislature is in session and during normal business hours.

But even there, does "open" have to mean that anyone can get in? I think it would be a problem if they singled someone out because of their political viewpoint or whatever. But limiting the number of people in the building and giving priority to those who had appointments (provided there are still plenty of slots for walk-ins) seems reasonable.

And closing to the public overnight (unless the legislature is in session overnight) to allow for cleaning strikes me as common sense.

I do hope someone gets us more information on what the Wisconsin constitution has been found to require.

purplepenquin said...

you said that the Governor found a way to "gradually and undramatically" get the people out of the Capitol, but you forgot to mention "Illegally".

The State House was open for business, yet closed to the citizens. Ain't no "gray area" involved...this act is as illegal as calling for a vote five minutes before the session is scheduled to start.

Synova said...

I don't know why, but I always thought that "peaceably assemble" mostly meant stuff like having a meeting in your home, or church, or other place, but including public meetings as well and even demonstrations... but by the time we're talking demonstrations we're not really talking "peaceable" any longer. It's more like "loud and obnoxious assembly".

I suppose it's because we never even for a *moment* contemplate anyone infringing our right to have a political or religious meeting in a home that we don't appreciate that in an actual "police-state" doing so might well get someone arrested.

In any case, the whole point as far as I can tell of moving in to a building is not to peaceably assemble *nor* bring a petition to the government, but to be as entirely obnoxious as possible.

People who really are trying to be as obnoxious as possible shouldn't try to pretend that's not what they're doing.

Of course that's the whole point of a protest, no matter who is doing it. The purpose is to get attention. So there are signs and chants and noise.

Obstruct traffic or move into a building for the purpose of obnoxious attention getting and is the attention getting *really* covered by freedom of assembly or petition or speech?

I imagine that those supporting the building occupation in Madison would claim the answer is a simple and emphatic *yes*.

Would the answer to that change if it was the tea party people you don't like camping in the hallways banging drums?

Synova said...

How many people would it take to more or less permanently stake out the hallways by the doors of the 14 fleebagger Senators?

Would that be acceptable?

It would be stupid and petulant, but if the right to access is absolute, then obviously that right is absolute.

Instead of sleeping mats the rotation of protesters could set up their own chair right in that spot.

Synova said...

After all, there is now a precedent.

Carol_Herman said...

It's not snarky to tell me the protesters used the stairs to get to the 2nd floor.

Only that "usually" you can't.

Heck, the White House has visitors. But nobody can just walk into any room they like! Let alone get into the building carrying sleeping gear!

So, Madison, Wisconsin was a bit more laid back.

There'll be new rules.

Access, with times alotted to the public. Sure. Through every doorway? Nope. Nada.

What about other state houses? We've got 50 of them, ya know.

Yesterday, the media also ran in. As soon as Govenor Walker said the protesters would have to clear out at about 4 O'Clock!

Wow, did the media ever show up, or what! But they didn't get their show!

And, it seems Governor Walker was at the governors' dinner at the White House.

So, call it a ruse.

Call it whatever you want.

But the media didn't get their pictures.

And, up ahead? Something is going to fall into place, so that people who want access to the Capitol Building ... "meet Disney's crowd control." You think I'm kidding, huh?

Wrella said...

1)Someone with PTSD or a panic disorder might well be unable to access services in the building with the drumming, dancing and bustling crowds. What of the war vet who needs to go in for a marriage license? Just a thought.

2) Been monitoring the #WIunion Twitter stream. (Don't judge me.) Bat-shit crazy is right and some of these are people on the inside, Tweeting out.

-Gov. Walker ordered windows in the Capitol welded shut so food can't be passed in.
-Police dogs menacingly stationed at the doors.
-Gov. will sneak Tea Partiers in to speech through a secret tunnel on Doty St.
-Lobbyists are being let in but firefighters denied entry.
-Cancer patient needed colostomy bag change and wasn't allowed back into bldg. to get them ("Medical emergency!").
-Wifi has been shut down in Capitol by the fascist Gov.
-Fox News live feed either there to witness the bloodshed or as a cynical plot to win the protesters over.
-Dems copier privileges suspended.

FTR, this situation in WI has allowed me to see just how well-grounded and clear-thinking my sons grew to be.

wv: dippe - surname of hippie.

I'm a Shaaaaark said...

you said that the Governor found a way to "gradually and undramatically" get the people out of the Capitol, but you forgot to mention "Illegally".

The State House was open for business, yet closed to the citizens. Ain't no "gray area" involved...this act is as illegal as calling for a vote five minutes before the session is scheduled to start.


From what I've seen so far, it was only closed while some crazy protester was running around on an outside balcony and causing a disturbance.

Otherwise, it has been "open" to "citizens" in a controlled and orderly manner, ensuring safety for everyone, including the obnoxious whiny protesters.

MadisonMan said...

Or, more likely, abruptly get a job.

For some reason, I keep remembering the old Doonesbury, during the Hostage Crisis in Iran, that had a reporter saying something like Here at the American Embassy, Term Papers are coming due...

So, do the TAA members participating have to work at TAing or not? Thesis work? Grading?

Fen said...

So, Madison, Wisconsin was a bit more laid back. There'll be new rules.

Yup. There's your outcome, Madison Man. The protesters have abused the rules, so everyone will pay with tighter rules.

Moneyrunner said...

A persuasive case can be made that the union members who occupied the Capital building were impeding both the right to assemble and the right to petition the legislature. Based on the video that Meade made earlier, it’s obvious that the protesting mob actually impeded the right of people to enter the building. They entered into an unofficial conspiracy with the fleeing Democrats to impede the legislature in its work, thus depriving the average citizen of his right of representation. That’s the way mobs work. They impede and obstruct the right of the average citizen to come before their representatives out of fear of being harassed. And that harassment is clear from the reports by FOX reporters for the capital grounds who were not just verbally harassed and blocked from reporting but were physically assaulted.

A fairly good example of mob violence designed to intimidate and bully. You can expect it to get worse. Entrenched powers do not give up their power and benefits easily and without a struggle.

Real American said...

Dear Gov Walker: Will you please use police dogs and fire hoses to clear the Capitol already? Pretty please?

Michael said...

Let them stay. Surely you turn off the heat at night to save fuel, to keep our earth safe and clean.

Paddy O said...

"this act is as illegal as calling for a vote five minutes before the session is scheduled to start."

Or running off to Illinois to avoid a vote?

David53 said...

This silencing of public input is an unacceptable and disturbing trend during these budget debates.”

The Silencing of the Lambs. What would Hannibal Lecter do?

MadisonMan said...

The protesters have abused the rules, so everyone will pay with tighter rules.

The tighter rules will prohibit bedding from being carried into the Capitol. And that won't be much of a problem.

(That's my prediction)

spunky said...

I come for the Althouse/Meade comments, but I stay for the garage rants.

Man, can that guy rant.

Henry said...

@Wrella -- It's the Louisiana Superdome all over again! But with drafts!

Rep said...

And closing to the public overnight (unless the legislature is in session overnight) to allow for cleaning strikes me as common sense.

Common sense to you maybe. Closing the capitol for cleaning/hygienic reasons is arguably viewpoint discriminatory, though--one could make a colorable argument that maintaining cleanliness at a hippie protest is tantamount to regulating the content of their expressive conduct. ;)

Chef Mojo said...

@spunky:

Nah, garage isn't much of a ranter. More like a spurter. Just sits there staring off into space, and then, all of a sudden, he gets this weird light in his eyes and bellows out an incoherent sentence before resuming his staring.

It is amusing, though.

wv: punif. This wv thing is starting to get creepy...

murgatroyd666 said...

wv: punif. This wv thing is starting to get creepy...

You think that's creepy? The wv for this comment is "porci" ...

... and how's this for porcine?

mythusmage said...

The wv for this comment was "sedier", and seedier is what the protesters' behavior has turned out to be.

AllenS said...

I'd call out the National Guard and clear the protesters and police out of the building.

Fix bayonettes!

ken in sc said...

Meade? Ice box? Ice box, it's been along time since I heard that term. But it brought back memories. I remember when there was an Ice and Coal man. He delivered ice in the summer and coal in the winter—a long time ago.

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