January 26, 2011

"No people of color have been nominated for Oscars."

"... You have a very powerful industry run by liberal Democrats, very rich liberal Democrats, and they have their top ten best movies, nominated best movies, and not a single person of color nominated for anything, not even best supporting stooge...."

Said Rush Limbaugh today, prompting Bo Snerdley to go on the air and comment:
Rush, there is something tremendously insidious and vile underneath this resegregation, resegregation of Hollywood. Our leading Hollywood producers -- and we all know who they are -- the Spielbergs, the bigwigs are simply look at black and Latino America in the face, especially black America, and you know what they're saying to 'em? They're saying, "Look, we gave you people enough. We elected him president. We did that. We don't have to put any of you people in movies anymore."

RUSH: You people?

130 comments:

edutcher said...

In the 50s, there were a great many Hispanic stars in the movies and TV. There were also a great many great black actors - although the only real black star in a century of movies has been Sidney Poitier.

You'd think it would be now, rather than that repressive old time the Lefties love to hate. But the Lefties have been in charge for 40 years with virtually no prominent Hispanic actors and only a few black headliners in the period.

Once more, they talk a good game, but that's all.

AJ Lynch said...

It's hard to argue with the lily white facts. I react like Rush [feined outrage at hypocritical Hollywood libs] when I watch a movie or TV show and the only black actors are limo drivers or club bouncers.

chuck b. said...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_Academy_Award_winners_and_nominees

There is supposed to be outrage that there aren't black people nominated every year. And then other people are supposed to say what about Mexicans and Asians and women and gays. And then we all agree it's ridiculous to be so fixated on identity politics because where does it end. And we agree that liberalism is a failed ideology and we should dump it and make fun of the people who propound it.

bagoh20 said...

No midgets either...or zombies. Who has done more for the movies than midgets and zombies.

Gahrie said...

Who has done more for the movies than midgets and zombies.


Christopher Walken.

Pogo said...

Some black actors are their best friends.

Marica said...

Pardon my language in what follows.

I live in the deep South. Way deep. Pretty rural to boot. And I am getting pretty sick of this shit.

When I go to the Dollar General, or the Piggly Wiggly, or Fred's Discount Store, there are just a bunch of people in line. And everyone gets treated the same way-- which is to say that everyone gets to talk about what ever the hell they want to talk about because everyone freaking knows every one. So it sometimes takes a while to make it through the line since the checker needs to get up to speed with how your Mama is doing.

Near as I can tell in my conversations with the my neighbors, productive folks-- like people who actually can DO things-- do despise those who can't. And they don't give a rat's ass what your skin color is.

Do

Can't do.

It's pretty simple.

So no people of color have been nominated.

Whatever.

Better luck next year. And once again, even here in rural MS, NO ONE CARES about this.

Blair said...

As I walk the streets of Hollywood Boulevard
Thinin' how hard it was to those that starred
In the movies portrayin' the roles
Of butlers and maids slaves and hoes
Many intelligent Black men seemed to look uncivilized
When on the screen
Like a guess I figure you to play some jigaboo
On the plantation, what else can a nigger do
And Black women in this profession
As for playin' a lawyer, out of the question
For what they play Aunt Jemima is the perfect term
Even if now she got a perm
So let's make our own movies like Spike Lee
Cause the roles being offered don't strike me
There's nothing that the Black man could use to earn
Burn Hollywood burn

Scott M said...

Oh dear...how is George Cloony's smug going to handle this one?

Bender said...

I guess Hollywood is a Mexican't.

Marica said...

Sorry for the rant. And for the grammatical errors.

EDH said...

Despite the empathetic celebrity audience reaction shots you see televised, in truth most Hollywood leftists would rather not hear those acceptance speech thank yous going out to "my Momma" and "Jesus."

Don said...

Javier Bardem doesn't count? Oh well, that's where apartheid gets sticky. The federal government's rules on who counts and who doesn't get really complicated. Spanish, yes. Portuguese, no.

traditionalguy said...

This could explain everything, Rush. Obama only wants to go to Wisconsin these days...and guess which race is no where to be seen in a Wisconsin crowd? Maybe Morgan Freeman could play a Clint Eastwood's friend in the Eateries of Madison City.

Luke Lea said...

Personally (and I may be wrong) I thought that was a racist rant on Limbaugh's part. It played to people's prejudices. I like the French idea better. We shouldn't even talk about race. It shouldn't be part of our public discourse. Enforce the laws against racial discrimination as a matter of course. But don't make such a big fucking issue out of it. Pardon my French.

Lem said...

prompting Bo Snerdley to go on the air and comment:

Has Snerdley ever commented on the air before?
I dont remember.. too bad I missed it.

Its a media tweak btw.. a good one imho.

Gene said...

Luke Lee, I'd love for us not to talk about race so much but I don't see how it can be avoided when half the government bureaucracy, it seems, is obsessed with diversity, set asides, achievement gaps and the whole long racial laundry list.

If tomorrow someone were to discover a previously overlooked constitutional ban on the collection of racial data, half of all government workers would be out of jobs by the end of the month.

Bruce Hayden said...

Personally (and I may be wrong) I thought that was a racist rant on Limbaugh's part. It played to people's prejudices. I like the French idea better. We shouldn't even talk about race. It shouldn't be part of our public discourse. Enforce the laws against racial discrimination as a matter of course. But don't make such a big fucking issue out of it.

I will respectfully disagree.

What Rush is pointing out is hypocrisy. The right, including Rush, is regularly reviled as being racist, arguably for nothing more than refusing to sign on to racist policies like Affirmative Action, and the fact that most Blacks are Democrats.

How many times did you hear that the Tea Party was lily white and racist as a result? Ignoring that those participating were about as color blind as it comes. What was important was that there were not enough people of color at the rallies, and ignoring that if they had shown up, they would have been welcome, as welcome as anyone else.

This is something that the left, and esp. the race hustlers there, don't get. One basic difference between the right and the left is that the former is individualistic in outlook, and the latter is communitarian. On the right, the individual is what or who counts, and as a result, many, if not most, conservatives look at the individual first, and then maybe later, their skin color. But the communitarian left revolves, to a great extent, around power blocks, and, so, for them, race is one of the first things they look at, because that determines what power block they belong to.

So, all Rush is doing here is calling out their hypocrisy. Nothing more.

If those on the left, and esp. those leftist in Hollywood would wish to sign on to a race blind government and society, I am sure Rush would be the first in line to agree with it.

pst314 said...

"Sorry for the rant. And for the grammatical errors."

No apology necessary: Some things are so stupid and pernicious that the deserve any number of rants.

And as far as grammar is concerned, well, no sweat, we all understood exactly what you meant. And what's more, I know at least one award-winning writer who delivers manuscripts in such bad shape that only skilled editors can turn them into publishable books.

No worries, mate.

YoungHegelian said...

"Our leading Hollywood producers -- and we all know who they are"

Am I the only person who reads that "we all know who they are" as as an under the table way of referring to the jewishness of the folks in question?

Bruce Hayden said...

Has Snerdley ever commented on the air before? I dont remember.. too bad I missed it.

I think that he has, it is just rare.

pst314 said...

Bruce Hayden is exactly right.

I get a warm, happy glow when I see liberals being savaged with the propaganda tools they invented. Couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch.

Harry said...

Blogger Bruce Hayden said... So, all Rush is doing here is calling out their hypocrisy. Nothing more.

I don't agree. When conservatives play this game, they are in effect validating the left's values. Rather than defend the supposed lack of diversity in the Tea Party by pointing out the lack of diversity on the editorial staff of the New Republic, the right should more directly challenge the idea that racial diversity is necessary to validate any movement, or that any cause that appeals primarily to whites is therefore tainted.

I don't think Rush's approach changes anything, though his listeners may enjoy it.

TheGiantPeach said...

I think it's a dilemma whenever you cast a movie. Say you're making a movie and you've signed Tom Cruise to be the lead. Say it's a romantic movie, and you want to cast the female lead. Well, there's no saying you can't cast a black actress, but then you have to realize that you've introduced the theme of "interracial couples" into your movie, and maybe that's not what you want your movie to be about.

OK, so you drop the idea of Tom Cruise, and you get Denzel Washington for the lead and a black actress, but shooting the same script probably isn't going to work. If audiences see a black couple, they are probably going to expect that the fact that they are black will play into the story in some way. And, if it doesn't, the audience is going to feel confused.

It's a big gamble. Once you've signed Tom Cruise for $20 million dollars or whatever the going rate is, you're going to want to play it safe with the rest of the cast. I wouldn't say it's racist on the part of the producer or of the audience.

I know some theater companies have gone "color-blind", and it can be jarring. I remember seeing a play once in which the role of a Nazi officer was taken by a black actor, and I just couldn't get past the incongruity of it all.

MayBee said...

I believe ( though I might be wrong) that Jewish people are a smaller percent of the US population than either black people or Hispanics. So I'm not sure who is really considered a minority in this debate

I guess I would also say, is there a specific performance that should have been nominated? Someone nominated who shouldn't have been? I say, name names or shut up. And yes, I appreciate that those who preach "diversity" don't see the ironies in what they'd defend as a meritocracy.
Just remember that isn't all of Hollywood.

dick said...

Gene,

In the late 1970's (I was working at Sloan Kettering in NYC at the time, we were told that we could not keep track of race, etc. Being realistic about things we still did it but we hid the codes in fields called something else since we knew they would change their minds later - and they did. When they did we just renamed the fields that contained race, sex, etc and kept on going with it. Now you are right that they can legally collect the info but you can bet that if they do again make it illegal to collect the data, the next thing they will want is proof that you do not discriminate and the only way to do that is to have race in the records and then the only way to have the race there is to hide the fact by calling it something else. You can bet the feds will require that. The reporting requirement is why the canceled the disallowing of capturing the data in the first place. The feds are nothing if not predictable.

Lem said...

I get a warm, happy glow when I see liberals being savaged with the propaganda tools they invented.

Was Obama himself in his own SOTU's "Sputnik moment" acknowledging that he has set the country back?..

Sputnik? the south was steep in segregation in 1957..

Reminds me.. I wonder if Ezra Klein thinks race is important.

Seven Machos said...

When Black Dynamite didn't win Best Picture or any other Oscar in 2009, I knew the fix was in.

My mommy calls my daddy black dynamite!

So does mine!

Mine too!

Uh, aw, hush up little girls... That's a common name.

holdfast said...

@TheGiantPeach said

I'd like to see "Springtime For Hitler" produced with an all-black cast. And no, not a bunch of Kiwi rugby players. I genuinely think Dave Chappelle could pull off a comedic Hitler.

Seven Machos said...

Furthermore, I recall a few years ago when two black actors won the Best Actor and Best Actress award the same year (and by the way I hate the word actress, also waitress).

I remember people feeling all gushy about it. The problem is that at least one of those movies was shit. And so it was an affirmative action award.

How'd that work out for black actors?

Lucien said...

@bagoh20:

Democrats mostly turn their backs on zombies because zombies by and large don't vote -- except in Chicago, which, you would think, would have gotten them more attention from Rahm and Obama. But Joe Biden was asked what he thought about the zombie vote, and he just said, "Bite me."

But midgets . . . you got me . . . I got no clue.

Bruce Hayden said...

I don't agree. When conservatives play this game, they are in effect validating the left's values. Rather than defend the supposed lack of diversity in the Tea Party by pointing out the lack of diversity on the editorial staff of the New Republic, the right should more directly challenge the idea that racial diversity is necessary to validate any movement, or that any cause that appeals primarily to whites is therefore tainted.

I am not sure how you make that work. Many Republicans for 150 years now have been saying just that, and it hasn't made much of a dent in public perceptions about race. We still have a lot of support for affirmative action, racial quotas, and the like.

Note how the last Congress, in its waning moments, passed billions of dollars to pay off a bunch of blacks who thought once or twice about farming, and so were discriminated against by the USDA. Who stood up against that? Almost no one. No one wanted to come across as a racist, despite less than probably 10% of the recipients having actually farmed or met someone from the USDA.

Few of us would like to be thought of as racists. And what you are suggesting is standing up before the rest of the country and taking that chance - that you want a race blind society, and you aren't saying that because you are (presumably) white and, by necessity then, privileged.

The problem with saying what you want to say then is that it makes you vulnerable to those on the left, and esp. all the race hustlers there, saying that the only reason that you are in favor of a race blind society is that you are already privileged because of your race, and therefore your reason for having that position is that you wish to keep people of color down and in their places. (Which, of course, is not what you are actually saying, just what you will be portrayed as saying).

I think that we want the same thing - a race blind society. Our disagreement is how best to get there.

Bruce Hayden said...

Furthermore, I recall a few years ago when two black actors won the Best Actor and Best Actress award the same year (and by the way I hate the word actress, also waitress).

Hey, when I am yanking the chain on some of the women in my life, I routinely use feminized endings to such words. I prefer though the "ette", e.g. lawyerette, doctorette, etc. This tendency of mine has gotten me hit more than once. Never enough though to hurt enough that I would have to call the cops for domestic violence.

I may be race-blind, but I am surely not sex-blind. Not at 60, and likely not at 70. And, that famous quote from Justice Holmes would indicate that maybe not even older than that. And, I don't think that many males after puberty are either.

Seven Machos said...

There's no reason not to add an ette to the end of a word for fun. But to have different words for people who play characters or bring you some food -- that's stupid.

I do find that it's important when calling in an escort at a hotel to specify dominatrix. But that's rare.

Revenant said...

I remember people feeling all gushy about it. The problem is that at least one of those movies was shit. And so it was an affirmative action award.

Do you mean "Training Day"?

I agree it was mediocre, but I saw that as more of a "he's owed it for great movies he DIDN'T win for" award for Denzel Washington. Kind of like how Al Pacino won for "Scent of a Woman" and Paul Newman won for "Color of Money" -- both of which were terrible films.

Also, that was a weak-ass year for movies. Russell Crowe probably should have won for A Beautiful Mind, but he'd just won the year before and they never give it to the same guy back to back.

Seven Machos said...

Kind of like how Al Pacino won for "Scent of a Woman" and Paul Newman won for "Color of Money"

That is just disgusting in every way. I am ashamed to admit that I saw "Scent of a Woman" at the theater and enjoyed it. I was young. I didn't know.

I have this idea, by the way, for a television channel. It's called The Potato and all it is is B movies of a kind likely to appeal to dudes who want to watch movies. So, "The Last Starfighter" and "Top Secret!" and "Death Race 2000."

Saint Croix said...

I don't know why you'd single out Spielberg. He's adopted two black kids. I kinda think we can cut him some slack on the racist question.

Seven Machos said...

Shorter St Croix: Some of Spielberg's best children are black!

Revenant said...

That is just disgusting in every way.

Maybe, but they've been doing it for a long time -- that's how Henry Fonda and John Wayne got their Oscars.

Bruce Hayden said...

There's no reason not to add an ette to the end of a word for fun. But to have different words for people who play characters or bring you some food -- that's stupid.

Keep in mind that, as languages go, English is less sexist than many, and, in particular, the Romance Languages. So, you have a group of 49 females, and you use the feminine ending. Add 1 male, and you use the male ending. That sort of thing.

I have for a long time been an opponent of sexist endings, pronouns, etc. But, I had a thought awhile back that they may do a part in simplifying English.

One problem that we often have is distinguishing between different people in either spoken or written English. Who are we talking about. I think that we have all tried to figure out who a "he", "his", or "him" is talking about in a sentence. Female pronouns, etc. sometimes make this simpler. If you are talking about a (straight) couple, it is easy to determine which you are talking about by the use of gender specific word. And, a lot of our conversations are cross-gender, so this may be helpful.

That said, I don't think that this corny theory of mine has anything to do with waitresses and actresses. And what about seamstress - what is the masculine there (tailor?)

Saint Croix said...

Javier Bardem might possibly be hispanic.

Seven Machos said...

I saw the documentary on Charlie Sheen last night. He's Hispanic.

Joan said...

7M: I wouldn't just watch The Potato Network,I'd invest. Isn't that what AMC started out as? Not that I'm complaining about their original series, but they've wandered far afield from their original movie channel roots.

Re the people of color non-issue... I teach in a predominantly Hispanic school, but a lot of the kids are, as they say, "mixed", and I must hear "It's because I'm black" on average once a day, sometimes more. These kids are acutely aware of their race and are already, at 12 years old, trying to race-hustle their way into better grades or out of doing any work. Sometimes they'll just be joking, but there's always an edge of hope to it when they say it -- "you'll give me a break because my skin's a different color, right?"

Does anyone really care about any of the Oscars any more? Ten best picture nominees, really? I'll read about it after the fact and look at the red carpet photos of the dresses, and spare myself the 4-hour agonizing telecast.

Seven Machos said...

Joan -- Thank you. AMC is sort of doing what The Potato would be right now, at least later at night. Airplane! is on a lot right now, for example. And there are some other channels that show movies but it's inconsistent. I happen to know this because I've been the night person for a baby for the last year, and roughly three of the last four years.

But there really ought to be a channel that caters to good-not-great movies primarily from around 1970 to present, and that appeals broadly to men.

Stylo Geek said...

I agree to that

Youngblood said...

"I agree [Training Day] was mediocre, but I saw that as more of a 'he's owed it for great movies he DIDN'T win for' award for Denzel Washington."

I watched Training Day again a couple of weeks ago. The film itself is mediocre, but Denzel Washington's performance is brilliant.

Coketown said...

This ain't the Grammy's.

Fen said...

I do still recall Halle Berry's Oscar speech. Where she turned the award into a racial statement.

She tried to turn Denzel's award into the same thing, but he wouldn't have any of that. Good for him.

Finn Alexander Kristiansen said...

"Note how the last Congress, in its waning moments, passed billions of dollars to pay off a bunch of blacks who thought once or twice about farming, and so were discriminated against by the USDA."

Hayden really? You personally reviewed the files and knew that these black farmers thought once or twice about growing a potato or cotton?

It's those types of dismissive attitudes towards the concerns of blacks that often lead to some conservatives being considered hostile, if not racist.

Or you look at the manufactured grievances about Obama's eligibility to be president among some in the Tea Party movement. It's nonsense and insulting.

Does it mean that all Tea Party identifiers are racist? No. The essential concepts of balancing budgets and reducing Federal debt are sound, and long overdue. But sometimes you have to swim to the bottom of that Tea Party ocean to get the pearl of wisdom.

***

I remember watching both The Dark Knight and 300 with a buddy of mine. We both loved the films. But I had a problem with many of the dark skinned or ethnic characters being killed off, corrupt, or preening wimps. I recall the scene where the Joker made two black thugs fight to the death. The tough talkers turned out to be weak. The Asian was set afire.

My friend argued that the producers were not even thinking about race, and that they just were putting a fun movie together, and further, provided some employment for black actors.

That was probably true, but the fact the the producers were not thinking about race at all was precisely the point. Had it at least crossed their minds a little, they might have decided to change the domination/submissive rubric that pops up in so many films.

To the extent you might live in a white neighborhood, read mainly white authored blogs, or be married to a white woman, or won't necessarily seek out a majority black school for your kids, so too, a black person will seek some surface "identity comfort" in movie viewing. The minimal hope is that all black characters won't be buffoons, the center of jokes, or the weak sidekick, and that someone other than Morgan Freeman or Denzel will represent the "good black" or lead.

***

In my book, and as an actual black person whose a registered Republican, hearing conservative Republicans afraid to confront birther issues or hearing those connected with the Tea Party spreading untruths is a far greater problem than Hollywood hypocrisy.

I don't expect Hollywood to get much right, but I expect to have a full range of politicians in both parties (and in new parties) that I can support without having to buy into lies, exaggerations or character assassination that enhance racial bias.

Now let me know when you have finished reading every farmer's file.

Fen said...

Moby(?) said: It's those types of dismissive attitudes towards the concerns of blacks that often lead to some conservatives being considered hostile, if not racist.

You should educate yourself before you start tossing out accusations of racism. Start here:

"If there are only 39,697 African-American farmers grand total in the entire country, then how can over 86,000 of them claim discrimination at the hands of the USDA? Where did the other 46,303 come from?"

http://pajamasmedia.com/zombie/2010/07/27/pigford-v-glickman-86000-claims-from-39697-total-farmers/

Moby(?) said: Or you look at the manufactured grievances about Obama's eligibility to be president among some in the Tea Party movement. It's nonsense and insulting. Does it mean that all Tea Party identifiers are racist?

More bullshit from you.

1) the grievances are not manufactured (even if silly). Hell, the Governor of Hawaii admits there are no birth records. (personally, I think the reason Obama wont "find" them is because the hospital marked him as "muslim" because of his father, and Obama doesn't want that issue put back in play)

2) Lame attempt on your part to link Birthers to Tea Partiers. They are two different groups.

3) Another lame accusation of racism.. for what? Please explain how the Birther loons are "racist".

Moby(?): and as an actual black person whose a registered Republican...

I think you're full of shit. You get the most basic conservative arguments wrong, as if you used HuffPo as your sole source of research.

And fuck you and your racist attacks.

rhhardin said...

Snerdly (James Golden) is the official EIB Obama criticizer and has been on many times.

Only a black has a right to criticize a black.

Lisa said...

blame it on the Jews

Fen said...

Shorter Moby: "calling out corruption is racist if the perps are black"

Fen said...

Bill up for vote in Arizona:

"Within ten days after submittal of the names of the candidates, the national political party committee shall submit an affidavit of the presidential candidate in which the presidential candidate states the candidate's citizenship and age and shall append to the affidavit documents that prove that the candidate is a natural born citizen, prove the candidate's age and prove that the candidate meets the residency requirements for President of the United States as prescribed in article II, section 1, Constitution of the United States."

Several other states are looking at similar bills. So, this "manufactured grievance" will be resolved before 2012. And, one way or another, we will get the stupid birther controversy off the table.

rhhardin said...

You vote for electors, not President.

edutcher said...

Seven Machos said...

Furthermore, I recall a few years ago when two black actors won the Best Actor and Best Actress award the same year (and by the way I hate the word actress, also waitress).

That goes back to the days when people actually knew and appreciated that there were differences between the sexes.

Bruce Hayden said...

Hey, when I am yanking the chain on some of the women in my life, I routinely use feminized endings to such words. I prefer though the "ette", e.g. lawyerette, doctorette, etc.

The feminine for doctor in English is doctrix, as in aviatrix or executrix, and amended from the French to doctoress (I know, doesn't exactly sing...). There's always "doctora" (Spanish) or "doctrice" (French).

AllenS said...

Eskimos. Where are all of the Eskimo actors? Surely by now, we'd have an Eskimo hero.

Seriously, I know exactly what Limbaugh and Golden are doing. In your eye, Libtards!

Paul Zrimsek said...

Isn't this one of those cases where you get mad at people on the other side just for failing to live up to your stereotypes of them? The usual liberals of Rush's imagining would have nominated a bunch of blacks just for being black.

Shanna said...

Say it's a romantic movie, and you want to cast the female lead. Well, there's no saying you can't cast a black actress, but then you have to realize that you've introduced the theme of "interracial couples" into your movie, and maybe that's not what you want your movie to be about.

I kind of like the way the BBC does the colorblind casting. It feels a little odd at first on the historical drama's (Gweneviere is Black? How is that exactly?) but you get used to it and nobody mentions it. I think we could do with a little more of that.

Pogo said...

This is just an Alinsky method, turned on the left. I hope they enjoy it. There's more to come.

"Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity."

Pogo said...

But don't worry, racial pandering is all the rage in the Navy:

"the [Naval] Academy is rejecting better qualified white applicants to admit minority candidates with less impressive credentials. The USNA has been very aggressive on the affirmative action front in recent years. In 2009, Adm. Gary Roughead, the chief of naval operations, went so far as to say that “diversity is the No. 1 priority” at the academy. (Gee, I guess training warriors and officers is now #2).

...midshipmen who struggle are given easier coursework or unlimited tutoring, breeding resentment among students who expected to get a first-rate education along with their military training. The environment is particularly toxic for talented black midshipmen, he said, because they are perceived by some classmates as less-qualified.
"

Affirmative action: the graft that keeps on giving.

Camp Runamok said...

"Am I the only person who reads that "we all know who they are" as as an under the table way of referring to the jewishness of the folks in question?"

More likely, it refers to the Limousine Liberals/Caviar Communists/whatever that infest the top rungs of the movie biz and that most of them fit a stereotypical caricature of the Jewish Democrat to a tee, right down to their names.

Charlie said...

Can't believe the Academy ignored Danny Trejo's work in Machete.

Fen said...

Paul: Isn't this one of those cases where you get mad at people on the other side just for failing to live up to your stereotypes of them?

No.

Read what Rush actually said:

"Now, the only reason I found this fascinating is because these are the people that tell us how to live, the Rob Reiners and the Norman Lears, all the others out there that have all the answers, they're the ones that are constantly calling us racists and bigots and sexists and homophobes, and here in this most enlightened industry and you can't find a single person of color nominated in any of the ten pictures up for best picture."

junyo said...

It's those types of dismissive attitudes towards the concerns of blacks that often lead to some conservatives being considered hostile, if not racist.

Finn, if you don't understand that blacks have no valid concerns as far as conservative Republicans/the Tea Party is concerned then you haven't been paying attention. Hostility to minority concerns is a feature, not a bug. Unfortunately the only viable alternative is demonstrably worse on balance.

docweasel said...

I disagree with the comment that Sidney Portier is the only legitimate black movie star in the last century. Denzel Washington, Wesley Snipes and now Wil Smith have all proven they can star in and carry not one, but several hit movies and even blockbusters. There are plenty of others, but Morgan Freeman stands out in my mind, as well as Forrest Whitaker and others, as legitimate black movie stars. What about Eddie Murphy? He certainly had a period where he carried movies, big hits. What more constitutes a "movie star"? Same with other black actors and actor/comedians.

Skookum John said...

The federal government's rules on who counts and who doesn't get really complicated. Spanish, yes. Portuguese, no.

I had a classmate in medical school whose father was born in Guatemala near the Mexican border. He told me that if his father had been born ten miles further north, his medical education would have been entirely free of charge, due to some scholarship program set aside for people of Mexican ancestry.

As a first-generation Guatemalan immigrant, he still did very well out of the government, despite being of pure European ancestry with blue eyes and lighter skin than mine. I, of course, as an evil Anglo-Saxon ice person, got exactly 0 dollars from any government agency.

Fen said...

if you don't understand that blacks have no valid concerns as far as conservative Republicans/the Tea Party is concerned then you haven't been paying attention.

"No valid concerns as far as they are concerned"... you need an editor.

But yes, we're not concerned with race-mongering shakedown artists who play the race card 24/7.

Skin color should be as relevant as hair color. If blacks want a color-blind society, they should stop making everything about race.

Florida said...

" ... if you don't understand that blacks have no valid concerns as far as conservative Republicans/the Tea Party is concerned then you haven't been paying attention."

Please answer the following questions:

1) What are those "concerns?"

2) On what factual basis are those concerns based?

3) Are those facts true?

I agree that blacks have a lot of concerns. I have yet to determine any factual basis for any concern ... but I am open to listening.

Merely having "concerns" is not enough. The black community must address their concerns in an open and honest way so that we can understand why they have these concerns and on what factual basis these concerns rest.

That way, if the concerns are based on untruths, we can have a national discussion about that.

On the other hand, if the concerns are based on truths, then we can have a national dicsussion about that.

But merely citing "concerns" is not enough.

Fen said...

Unfortunately the only viable alternative is demonstrably worse on balance.

ie. giving up the race card, no more race based hiring/admits, time to be judged on your own merits.

How horrible.

Because "the black race is inferior and needs to be propped up". Thats the liberal logic yes?

Big Mike said...

It's not that there aren't good actors and actresses of color -- I'll go see just about anything Morgan Freeman or Will Smith are starring in -- but this was clearly a down year for Hollywood and there were simply no good performances by people of color.

What's the big whoop?

Oh! I get it! Hollywood stars routinely excoriate the rest of us when there is a perception of imbalance in people of color in the top ranks, but wish to be held to a different standard for their own stuff.

Hmm. Do you think Sean Penn will insist on a black leading lady for his next film?

Pogo said...

Clearly, there is a market failure in Hollywood, and the Academy needs federal oversight.

There needs to be a 50% distribution of Academy awards by race, to compensate for past discrimination by the Oscars over the past decades.

Why does the Academy hate blacks?
End Oscar's racism now!

Ice Nine said...

>>"I know some theater companies have gone "color-blind", and it can be jarring. I remember seeing a play once in which the role of a Nazi officer was taken by a black actor, and I just couldn't get past the incongruity of it all. "

Color blind, schmolor blind. These "enlightened" theater companies in their cluelessness think that color blind simply equates to having Black actors play White roles. In fact, they will be color blind when they have White actors playing Blacks, complete with Black vernacular, dialect and mannerisms - without being accused of racist stereotyping and mockery. Or when they have White actors playing Blacks and using "black" skin coloring makeup - without being accused of the Al Jolson sin.

That ain't gonna happen. Those companies are never going to be color blind in spite of all the diversity charade they engage in now.

Greg said...

It's getting so you can't tell Rush Limbaugh and Spike Lee apart without picture ID

Calvin Dodge said...

Finn, over 90,000 claims have been filed in the "Pigford" case.

There are only 18,000 black farmers in America.

So it's not exactly rocket science to conclude that "Pigford" is rife with fraud.

Scott M said...

Rife isn't a big enough word for what happened in the Pigford case.

lucid said...

Referring to "people of color" is such a racist formulation--as though only African-Americans or Asians or Amerindians or Latinos or Inuit or Naive Hawaiians or Persians or Arabs or South Sea Islanders or Indigenous Australians or Fujians or Chechens had color.

Don't you know that Whites have color also and are thereofre "people of color"?

You really have to keep up with Whiteness Studies, a new invention of leftist sociologists.

Scott M said...

One of the things that's always driven me a little nuts about the casting decisions in major movies was the obvious attempt at reverse discrimination. Kids sports movies are especially guilty of this, in which the protagonists are always a hodgepodge racially, ethnically, fat, etc, while the antagonists are usually all white-washed privileged kids.

It doesn't stop with kids sports movies, though. All of the Agents and the Architect were pasty white, while Neo and the people of Zion were a progressives wet-dream of color. Got that? All the bad guys were white, stereotypically so, while the good guys were...well, just about everything else with the exception of Neo, who really couldn't even be called the lead by midway through the second movie.

Etc, etc.

PaulV said...

Seven, In these days of grade inflation, it is doubtful that Hollywood would reduce the actor awards in hald by dropping "ess".
UK should get credit for allowing an Australian to appear in King's Speech. Aussies are considered second class by Brits. The only legal slur in Australia is "pommie"
short for pompus Englishman. The Committments, about a soul band form the blackest part of teh blackest city of the blackest country in Europe should have gotten Academy Awards.

Timothy Lee said...

Sidney Poitier won the Oscar for Lilies of the Field (1963), but it's been a while since then.

Kim said...

What Hollywood needs is affirmative action -- you know, the kind they want other industries to have.

Hence: Best Black Actor, Best Black Actress, Best Hispanic Director, Best Asian Cinematographer, etc.

Come on, Hollywood: where's your sense of civic duty?

TWM said...

"Eskimos. Where are all of the Eskimo actors? Surely by now, we'd have an Eskimo hero."

Anthony Quinn played an Eskimo in "The Savage Innocents" in 1960. Course he was Mexican, not Greek or Arab like most people believe.

MayBee said...

There is nothing less PC than a casting call in Hollywood. They'll say the color of the person they are looking for, the hair color, the age range, the weight. We want upscale/blue collar/only six 6 or smaller. We only have a place for an Asian. We want someone really ugly.
They want people to look the part because they don't want the audience's mind to start wandering, trying to figure out how *this* person ended up being friends with *that* person. They need you to accept the visual cues and focus on the story.

Maguro said...

Whatever happened to Cuba Gooding Jr? He used to be good for an Oscar nomination now and then. Last time I saw him he was playing a supporting role in an underwear commercial. So to speak.

Bruce Hayden said...

The feminine for doctor in English is doctrix, as in aviatrix or executrix, and amended from the French to doctoress (I know, doesn't exactly sing...). There's always "doctora" (Spanish) or "doctrice" (French).

Much better than my doctorette. Now, if anyone can come up with a nice sexist term for lawyer, or, heaven forbid here, professor... The Spanish or the French would be good enough.

Scott M said...

Now, if anyone can come up with a nice sexist term for lawyer

Lampreyette?

MikeR said...

I'm sympathetic with what Marica is saying. But maybe someone more familiar with Rush Limbaugh can clear this up for me: He's kidding, right? That is, he doesn't really care if blacks are nominated or not; certainly he doesn't think they should be nominated by quota. He agrees with Marica.
But he's attacking liberals, since they do think that blacks should be nominated by quota.
Right?

MayBee said...

And let me just say one more time..."Hollywood" is actually made up of thousands of people who work hard and keep their political opinions to themselves. Yeah, there are some loud mouths, but Rob Reiner isn't everyone.

AllenS said...

That was my take on it, Mike.

Bruce Hayden said...

Hayden really? You personally reviewed the files and knew that these black farmers thought once or twice about growing a potato or cotton?

No, I didn't. But 90+% of those getting awards in this latest round never farmed. And, the system was intentionally set up to not ask questions or look into whether or not they really had a claim or not. They were essentially told by the lawyers soliciting for clients that if they made a claim, what they had to say, and that it likely wouldn't be investigated. In short, the lawyers sold it like the lottery.

Payment went through right before the end of the 111th Congress because they knew that it would not pass the smell test. Such things as the Secretary of Agriculture at the time of the alleged discrimination being one of the attorneys soliciting for clients here. And, that pesky 90+% never having farmed problem.

Scott M said...

But he's attacking liberals, since they do think that blacks should be nominated by quota.
Right?


He's definitely kidding about the outrage. What's he's targeting is the multi-culti mantra that's beat into us constantly and has been for over two decades. They're not practicing what they preach.

For most conservatives I know, the double-standard game is almost as outrageous as the most hackneyed liberal policy.

Bruce Hayden said...

One more thing - this was Pigford II, for all those who legally missed the deadline for Pigford I. I would suggest that in most other similar situations, missing the deadline for filing a claim would have been fatal to their claims. Not here.

And note - there was discrimination by the DoA at that time. The problem was that it wasn't racial, but rather, against small farmers in general. It just happened that the black farmers in Pigford I were lucky enough to have had black enough skin that they could turn it into a racial claim. But many more white, etc. farmers were also discriminated against just as badly. They just didn't have an avenue to sue the department.

But, for the most part, I think that the Pigford I claimants probably deserved their awards. My complaint is against the second round, after the court imposed deadline had run, and the attorneys had jumped in with their sweat-heart deal with the Holder DoJ.

John said...

I am not certain about zombies, though there are arguably a lot of brain-dead people in Hollywood (perhaps that is why zombies are always hungry for braaaaaaiiiiinnnnnnnsssssss.....?), but Linda Hunt has won an Oscar at her 4'9", so I guess they figured they are covered for midgets.

mr said...

Clearly, busing is called-for.

Sofa King said...

It doesn't stop with kids sports movies, though. All of the Agents and the Architect were pasty white, while Neo and the people of Zion were a progressives wet-dream of color. Got that?

Come to think of it, I don't recall any blacks - or any women for that matter - serving the Empire, much different than the Rebel Alliance!

DADvocate said...

I know some theater companies have gone "color-blind", and it can be jarring. I remember seeing a play once in which the role of a Nazi officer was taken by a black actor, and I just couldn't get past the incongruity of it all.

Never struck me like that. 35 years ago at a large southern university I watched a student production of Fiddler on the Roof. A black guy played a Cossack. No big deal. It was bigger deal that he was also an All-American linebakder and could do that crazy squating, kicking Cossack dance really well.

Harry said...

Blogger Bruce Hayden said...
The problem with saying what you want to say then is that it makes you vulnerable to those on the left, and esp. all the race hustlers there, saying that the only reason that you are in favor of a race blind society is that you are already privileged because of your race, and therefore your reason for having that position is that you wish to keep people of color down and in their places.


Bruce, I appreciate what you have to say and I'm sure we have the same perspective on this. My problem is that I can't recall an instance in which pointing out the hypocrisy of liberals made the slightest difference to them. The feminists tried to destroy Clarence Thomas over what, in retrospect, looks like NOTHING, yet they unashamedly supported the sexual predator Bill Clinton. It doesn't bother them. Accusations of racism, sexism, homophobia, etc., are used only to destroy conservatives. Liberals couldn't care less whether the same terms are applied to them.

I used to listen to conservative talk radio, particularly the Bob Grant Show out of New York, and recall that white callers that wanted to address a racial issue would almost always start out with, "I'm not a racist, but . . ."

Bob would stop them and ask, "Why do you feel compelled to say that? Why do you have to apologize to the other side before you even make your point? Does the other side ever do that? Does Al Sharpton ever start a sentence with, 'I'm not a racist, but. . .?' No, only white people feel the need to constantly apologize for what they think."

White conservatives are hamstrung by the fear of being called racist. The left uses that sensitivity against them and couldn't care less whether they're being inconsistent or hypocritical. As long as it puts conservatives on the defensive, they'll continue to use it.

I would prefer that conservatives ignore bogus charges of racism rather than waste time defending themselves against them, or trying to throw the same charge back at liberals. It's a losing tactic.

Scott M said...

Come to think of it, I don't recall any blacks - or any women for that matter - serving the Empire, much different than the Rebel Alliance!

Just yesterday, it was disclosed that Will Smith's daughter is going to be playing the orphan, Annie, in the upcoming remake. Contemporary setting as well...which is odd. But, as a red-head, this is simply outrageous and can not stand.

Similarly, Smith's son just starred in the remake of Karate Kid and now his other loinspawn is playing another originally-white role. I suppose it's safe to say that we can expect to see Smith playing, non-ironically, Hitler or Einstein soon. Maybe Lincoln.

I don't necessarily have a problem with swapping out racial roles willy-nilly unless it's either a historical piece or the setting is historical, but fictional. Bending the Robin Hood myth, for instance, enough to include a Moor played by a black actor was simply pushing it too far...Kostner's non-accent was worse, granted, but still...

PaulV said...

Mike, I think Limbaugh's views are the same that MLK, Jr. expressed in the "I Have a Dream" Speech" where color of one skin does not matter.

Fen said...

Kids sports movies are especially guilty of this, in which the protagonists are always a hodgepodge racially, ethnically, fat, etc, while the antagonists are usually all white-washed privileged kids.

It doesn't stop with kids sports movies, though. All of the Agents and the Architect were pasty white, while Neo and the people of Zion were a progressives wet-dream of color.


Yup, I see the same things.

But I was just happy the whites weren't stereotyped as Homer Simpson / Al Bundy / Family Guy again...

Evil is a step up from sloven and stupid.

I just hope the Dark Side gets its own "Magic Negro". We're apparently doomed to fail without one.

Fen said...

I would prefer that conservatives ignore bogus charges of racism

You can't. Thats been tried many many times before. If you ignore it, it becomes the "conventional widom".

Instead, push back hard. Burn everything to the ground to make your point. I'm at the point where I'm so sick of the race card that I'm sure I've overlooked *genuine* instances of racism. Too fucking bad.

Cedarford said...

YoungHegelian said...
"Our leading Hollywood producers -- and we all know who they are"

Am I the only person who reads that "we all know who they are" as as an under the table way of referring to the jewishness of the folks in question?

=======================
Hard to avoid the obvious.
When you talk about people in charge in the media, people know who you are talking about.

And influence is not to be underestimated. It is no accident why the Soviet Union placed such a high priority on recruiting eager followers, the writers and key decision-makers (mostly Jewish), on Broadway and in Hollywood. They placed high priority on their own propaganda - and were convinced a key to reshaping America was through a sympathetic media indoctrinating new, socialist values.

The people involved temporarily got burned in the 50s as the tens of millions lost to communist brutality, the Soviet A-bomb, and Soviet takeover of Europe and them pushing a communist takeover of Asia - made it quite bad for the 5th Column.

Their answer was to reject communism on the surface, claim everyone was innocent victims of snitches who placed them on the Blacklist - then slowly but surely reintroduce the same ideas they pushed for the Soviets. Calling it "progressivism".

Championing the Negro is an old progressive Jewish/Communist theme.
Not that they cared one whit about blacks. It was mainly to convince blacks that the path was not self-reliance, but reliance on "very smart people" who could bring them money and clout through "wise people controlling businesses and government positions that would benefit the Negro. But the real intent was to make the "champions" the ones with money and clout by using the votes and purchasing power of blacks as leverage for their own ambitions.

Metamer said...

Even though Oscar's very much a guy, women have managed to win the majority of Best Actress awards.

Look at Oscar. The only color to him is gold. Box office receipts crude.

Happily, more productions today are casting across demographic groups with characters less about their respective races and more about other uniqueness. I liked the Book of Eli for this reason. Other productions hilariously lampoon stereotyping and racialist thinking, like Eastbound & Down.

Anyway, the Census missed an important bean-counting category when it didn't include LA tans under "race."

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Eskimos. Where are all of the Eskimo actors? Surely by now, we'd have an Eskimo hero.

Todd Palin would do.

Shanna said...

Come to think of it, I don't recall any blacks - or any women for that matter - serving the Empire, much different than the Rebel Alliance!

Does James Earl Jones count?

Just yesterday, it was disclosed that Will Smith's daughter is going to be playing the orphan, Annie, in the upcoming remake.

Are they going to play the hip hop version of that song? Seriously, there is no way a movie lacking Carol Burnett and Tim Curry (was Madeline Kahn in that movie too?) will beat out the original for me.

Cedarford said...

PaulV said...
Mike, I think Limbaugh's views are the same that MLK, Jr. expressed in the "I Have a Dream" Speech" where color of one skin does not matter.

==================
Sorry to be rude, but anyone who thinks "quotas, set asides, 'our people', form a coalition with the browns to confront the whites" MLK was color blind or advocated being color blind based on one throwaway line in a speech has crap for brains.

Similarly, George Bush is not a believer that ethanol from switchgrass is the solution we are seeking for energy independence from a line in a speech he did...and Obama saying he is working for a balanced budget in several of his speeches is belied by the obvious facts.

Generally, any black or historian that replies to the usual dull-minded conservative quoting "I have a Dream" as the definitive King essence - that they have crap for brains - is right.

Martin L. Shoemaker said...

Harry, it's not about persuading liberals, it's about disarming them. (Can I say that under the New Civility regime?)

The liberals use the "Look how white you all are" claim as a weapon to try to silence opposing voices. And it works on some people who don't think too deeply about it: "Gee, maybe we just don't understand." Limbaugh's pointing out that this weapon cuts both ways, and that strengthens the will of people who might otherwise be bludgeoned into silence.

It's a long-standing weapon in his arsenal: demonstrating absurdity by being absurd.

JAL said...

@ Bruce re Pigford II -- What I saw was -- besides the totally unbelievable and illogical numbers -- was that they went after people who *might* have farmed (your "thought about" it comment). I might have joined the FBI in the 1960s but I was a woman and it was never presented as a possibility to me? Do I qualify for some $$???

@ revenant they never give it to the same guy back to back.

The Tom Hanks rule?

@7nachos -- I love the Last Starfighter Just a fun movie.

As far as networks and old stuff -- one of our local broadcast (cable-less home here) stations has put "this" TV [that's what it's called] on its other digital slot. Old westerns, old series, etc. It's a hoot. Some pipperoos, some stinkeroos.

Has anyone seen/read/heard the "outrage" expressed?

@ docweasal re black actors --I think the commenter specified the 50s. Yeah -- I'll go see those guys in a heartbeat (if the story line is good.)

Re mixed casting -- always seems more likely they will cast a "white" guy and a "black" gal. (Arnold and Vanessa Williams ... But I think it was Denzel and Julia in "Pelican Brief" and Will Smith and I assume a Hispanic -- Eva Mendes)

Many of the TV shows have the requisite mixture of races.

Most of us who work or have worked in the real world just work together and enjoy (most of the time) our coworkers and don't give a flip.

mdgiles said...

Skin color should be as relevant as hair color. If blacks want a color-blind society, they should stop making everything about race.

I'm always fascinated when someone gives that particular piece of advice.
To a black person, this country was ALL about race for hundreds of years.
In fact, due to the nature of chattel slavery in the US (the fact that it is racially based)a case can be made that the entire US has been race obsessed since long before it's founding to the present day. People in the US - black, white, yellow, red, mixtures or undecided - are incapable of NOT thinking about race. It's been the elephant in the room for far too long.

Michael K said...

Denzel Washington played the prince in Kenneth Branagh's movie version of "Much Ado About Nothing." I was startled by the casting for about three minutes and then it was simply forgotten. It's not one of the major roles but he did a good job. He is such a dignified actor that it was not a bit jarring.

He was just as good in "Woman in a Blue Dress," an entirely different role.

I do see lots of black actors in commercials. I doubt if I've seen a commercial with more than two actors in which one wasn't black.

The racism of the present is, in many ways, more harmful than it was before the Civil Rights Act and especially since Affirmative Action. I guess you have to be as old as I am to remember the difference. When I was a high school senior, a friend of mine and I used to hang out at black tavern in Chicago. We were the only whites. He had gotten to know the owner while working as a helper on a beer truck.

We would go in there every Friday night. The big thing was bumper pool. It happened that Dick and I were experts in bumper pool. We would win every game and leave about 1:30 never having bought a beer. That was the bet. We took a couple if guys from the tavern on our graduation beach party. I would not walk into a black tavern today.

Now, I teach medical students. About 15% of the class is black each year. Those who are not American, and many are not, have no trouble. Some of them are quite poor but they do not have the American inferiority complex that so hampers American blacks. One year I had three black students in a group of six. Two were from other countries and spent a lot of time trying to help the third who finally flunked out after repeating the first year.

It's really a shame what the left has done to American blacks.

johannalapp said...

Revenant said...

they never give it to the same guy back to back.


Except for Tom Hanks, Spencer Tracy, Luise Ranier and Katherine Hepburn. So, almost never.

TWM said...

"Eskimos. Where are all of the Eskimo actors? Surely by now, we'd have an Eskimo hero."

Anthony Quinn played on in The Savage Innocents in 1960. Course he was Mexican, although people still think he is Greek or Arab.

DADvocate said...

People in the US - black, white, yellow, red, mixtures or undecided - are incapable of NOT thinking about race.

No. NOT ALLOWED to NOT THINK about race. By people like you.

Harry said...

Blogger Martin L. Shoemaker said... Harry, it's not about persuading liberals, it's about disarming them. (Can I say that under the New Civility regime?) It's a long-standing weapon in his arsenal: demonstrating absurdity by being absurd.

My point is that they're never disarmed by this technique, and it just reinforces the underlying assumption that any non-left group that does not include the requisite percentage of blacks is racist. What Limbaugh is saying is, "You guys always call us racists, but look at you--you're racist too because you don't have enough black Academy Award nominees."

I know he's trying to point out the absurdity of the assumption but I don't believe it makes any impression. What if in response the Academy makes sure to nominate a token black every year? What's Limbaugh's argument then? To point out some other liberal group that doesn't have enough blacks in its membership?

Fen said...If you ignore [bogus charges of racism] it becomes the "conventional wisdom."

That's only true because conservatives always feel they have to address the charge. If they took the approach of Democrats, they'd say something like "Why don't you just stick to the issue instead of questioning my motives?"

The fact that conservatives always feel defensive on this issue wastes their time and energy, and empowers those who make the accusation. AFAIC, as soon as the argument turns into "Prove you're not a racist," the conservative has lost.

Everyone who disagrees with the left is a racist. That's what "racism"means today.

Big Mike said...

@JAL, I think Last Starfighter had two of the coolest snips of dialog since the last lines of Gone With the Wind.

I can only find one of the clips on YouTube, but the first goes something like

"How many starfighters are there?"

"Counting you?"

pause

"Yeah, counting me."

"One."

The other goes

"What will we do?"

"We die."

Martin L. Shoemaker said...

Harry said...

What Limbaugh is saying is, "You guys always call us racists, but look at you--you're racist too because you don't have enough black Academy Award nominees."

I disagree. He's saying, "Look, folks, they're gonna call you racist because you don't have enough black members; but they're lying hypocrites, so just ignore them. You don't believe they're lying hypocrites? Here are some examples..."

Rush isn't going to change a single liberal mind. Those minds are closed to his words. But he'll give wavering conservatives and independents a reason to say, "Hey, why am I listening to those lying hypocrites?"

If you want to try to get liberal interest groups to give up the race card, you're free to tilt at that windmill. I wish you luck. But that's not Rush's purpose here.

Harry said...

Blogger Martin L. Shoemaker said...He's saying, "Look, folks, they're gonna call you racist because you don't have enough black members; but they're lying hypocrites, so just ignore them. You don't believe they're lying hypocrites? Here are some examples..."

That's a good point, and perhaps Limbaugh's listeners are actually concerned about whether or not they're perceived as racists. I've moved beyond that, but he may be helping some of his listeners along.

If you want to try to get liberal interest groups to give up the race card, you're free to tilt at that windmill.

Evidently I haven't managed to make myself clear. I'm simply saying that as long as conservatives react defensively to accusations of racism and treat them as worthy of response, they will continue to be made. If the race card no longer produced this reaction in conservatives, it would have no value.

DADvocate said...

They could at least nominate some token blacks and other minorities just to make them feel better. Just think how excluded those minorities feel. Making allowances for cultural background differences, lack of childhood acting opportunites, etc I'm sure they could have found some minorities deserving of nomination after weighing in the affirmative action points.

Fen said...

That's only true because conservatives always feel they have to address the charge. If they took the approach of Democrats, they'd say something like "Why don't you just stick to the issue instead of questioning my motives?"

George Bush tried that for 8 years. Turned the other cheek.

And now, otherwise reasonable people believe he lied at WMDs to avenge his father, and that he's a stupid hick.

But hey, you go on turning the other cheek. See what it gets you (I know because I've already been down that path). All I want now is a pound of flesh.

Harry said...

Fen said...But hey, you go on turning the other cheek. See what it gets you (I know because I've already been down that path). All I want now is a pound of flesh.

Sorry, Fen, you completely miss the point. I am talking about refusing to engage leftist accusations as if they were valid.

George W. Bush is a good example of what I'm talking about. Most of his worst policies were basically liberal, such as trying to grant amnesty to tens of thousands of Mexicans here illegally. This infuriated his base, but it did nothing to stop leftists from calling him a racist. To them, Republican = racist. So why bother worrying about whether you're going to be called a racist?

Blue@9 said...

"When I go to the Dollar General, or the Piggly Wiggly, or Fred's Discount Store, there are just a bunch of people in line. And everyone gets treated the same way-- which is to say that everyone gets to talk about what ever the hell they want to talk about because everyone freaking knows every one."

This reminds me of conversations with my Southern roommate in college. His observation about the North (and New England in particular): Southerners have racist philosophies, but are not racist in day-to-day life. They have black neighbors and colleagues and although they might say things about "black people" in general, they treat their black friends and acquaintances with great affection and respect. Northerners, on the other hand, talk big about not being racist, but in day-to-day life don't interact with black people, don't eat or shop where black people go, don't live next to black people, don't really know any black people or care to be friends with any.

These were his observations at the time, but I've found some truth to them over the years.

Harry said...

Harry said...Most of his worst policies were basically liberal, such as trying to grant amnesty to tens of thousands of Mexicans here illegally.

Damn you, early onset Alzheiner's! I meant tens of millions, of course.

The Crack Emcee said...

"People of color" is one of the most stupidly insidious phrases to come out of political correctness. All it does is point out that whites don't have as much melanin - like saying "the n-word" makes me think of the word "nigger" - like skin color means anything. And tell me - did any "people of color" make anything worthy of an Oscar nomination this year? If not, then why is it mentioned they're not in there? Is Hollywood like those team sports for kids where everyone gets a trophy, no matter what?

Political correctness is insanity.

Belkys said...

Spaniards: Javier Bardem, Penelope Cruz and Antonio Banderas. Plus Alejandro Amenabar and Almódovar
Mexicans : Salma Hayek,
Certainly but for Bardem and Amenabar they are a far cry from: The greatest of all :Margarita Cansino, Raquel Welch,Anthonny Quinn,Lupe Vélez , Dolores del Río, Pedro Arméndariz, Fernando Lamas, César Romero, Desi Arnaz, Xavier Cugat,Férnando Montalbán, Carmén Miranda( portuguese), Pepé Carioca and Panchito Pistolas ( main characters in a psychedelic movie ), Férnando Rey, Vicente Blasco Ibñaez ( screen writter)

vladdy1 said...

"I do see lots of black actors in commercials. I doubt if I've seen a commercial with more than two actors in which one wasn't black."

Therein lies the problem. The race baiters have done such a good job at pushing all race, all the time, that we grossly overestimate the number of blacks in America -- and therefore, expect to see them in equal numbers.

I read of a European who came here and was shocked at how low the number of blacks really was (13%). Because of all the fuss, people get the idea that we're half black; therefore, blacks should get half the awards. Their actual chance, percentage-wise, is 13 in 100.

Blacks are actally overrepresented in the media.

boinky said...

you should watch US TV, movies, and MTV here in Asia.

The main "black" faces are thugs, gangsters, or angry ugly rap singers with ladies showing their bootie.

No wonder the Chinese and the Muslims despise the US as decadent, and some Asians think blacks are subhuman (although they are too polite to say so).

Hispanics and Asians are absent, but when they are shown are often caricatures. If I had a dollar for every Disney movie that shows 4 year old Asians being black belts in karate, I'd be rich. And then there are the "multicultural" Dora, Mulan, and that imitation Mayan emperor. All are Berkeley Yuppies in drag.

Belkys said...

and some Asians think blacks are subhuman (although they are too polite to say so).

Really?
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101880815-149882,00.html

Finn Alexander Kristiansen said...

"I think you're full of shit. You get the most basic conservative arguments wrong, as if you used HuffPo as your sole source of research.

And fuck you and your racist attacks."


Fen, that's a wonderful way of expressing yourself. I will tell you what. My non pin name is Tim. My email is osloforest@hotmail.com. Why don't you contact me and I will send you a copy of my voter registration card? Then, once we determine the truth of my assertions, we can begin to examine the unthoughtful bias in yours? Match me by putting up your email in this forum, or emailing yours to me. In the least, you can apologize for calling me a liar, if not for your lack of civility.

Finn Alexander Kristiansen said...

Fen comes to the aid of Hayden, utilizing full potty mouth and a link to Pajamas Media that points out some details of the Pigford vs Glickman case.

I was originally suggesting that Hayden was a bit dismissive of black farmers by saying the case could be reduced down to one or two black farmers of dubious status.

He said:

"Note how the last Congress, in its waning moments, passed billions of dollars to pay off a bunch of blacks who thought once or twice about farming, and so were discriminated against by the USDA."

But the fact of the matter is, issues like this case are actually very important to blacks, not so much for the cash, but for the loss of personal property and tradition that goes back to slavery. It's one thing to say, as Fen's Pajamas link implies, that there was fraud (approximately 70K farmers applying for remedies when known black farmers are roughly half that).

But it's another to lump everyone together, imply that all 70,000 cases or so were rolled together under one big payout. It was not.

As Hayden later clarified, there was a first wave of litigants. Exactly. We have Pigford 1 and Pigford 2 claimants.

The link at Pajamas Media glosses over the details of the case, to make a convenient implication, as opposed to a truthful one. The implication is that some 70,000 black pseudo farmers are getting free money under the cover of false claims of racism. (The implied fraud negating the potential racism).

The actuality is that Pigford 1 claimants amounted to around 22,000 of which only 15,000 provided proof of ill treatment and were approved for payment.

Pigford 2 cases, the late filers, amounted to another 25,000 cases, each of which will still have to prove the merits of their case.

In both sets of litigants, they are not automatically handed anything. Track A and B applicants (in both groups) have several sets of criteria they must meet to be considered part of the class.

It's complex. It involves legitimate claims combined with many fraud claims as well, as do most huge settlements (Katrina comes to mind). But they vet for fraud.

So here we have a complex issue, but it is reduced to implying a massive payout to unworthy people, and largely dismissed.

Hayden's dismissal was not racist. It's just that the details of something important to blacks was not important enough to him to add nuance. He had a point to make. Same with Hollywood. Nuance in casting is often overlooked for the larger issues... plot, CGI, money.

Fen, while opting to use some colorful cursing to hammer home his irrelevant point, provides a link to a, uhm, blog, which itself is a construction of quotes designed to give the impression that some 70K (as linked to Wiki) were somehow receiving funds.

You need to go deeper, to things like Congressional Research Service Reports to get more realistic numbers and the nuances of the process.

Without the details, it's easy to be dismissive, and then to imply some type of reverse discrimination by way of suggesting critics, black critics, should just get over it.

Thus we are reduced to Fen calling people liars when his arguments lack detail, if not merit. If you don't like an explanation of how some blacks might perceive things--like how they are characterized in film--better to call your critic a liar.

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