January 15, 2011

"I had her heart in my hand... We filled it with blood."

"It still didn’t want to beat. So, it was over. We’re finished.”

21 comments:

traditionalguy said...

Life can be here today and gone in 10 minutes. Thank God for trained Doctors who will fight for their patients.

Hagar said...

Off topic, but did not a Representative once take a shot at another in the House? Would it really be wise to let the Members of Congress "pack heat"?

And Rep. Brooks beat Sen. Sumner senseless with his walking stick? Should not canes be banned on the Capitol grounds?

EDH said...

Politicized "Death Panels"?

Bah! Never will happen.

Dr. Martin E. Weinand, a neurosurgeon, was ready to operate, but Dr. Friese thought that the chief of neurosurgery, Dr. G. Michael Lemole Jr., who was supposed to have the day off, should also be involved.

“I called Lemole,” Dr. Friese said. “That would be a special thing for her [Giffords]. I wouldn’t have done that if it were a regular patient, because one neurosurgeon could do the operation. That to my mind was a political thing, and I wanted another neurosurgeon, particularly the chief neurosurgeon. I felt like I was doing a courtesy to the chief of neurosurgery letting him know the political aspect of what was going on.”

The Drill SGT said...

There is an interesting nugget or 2 buried in the article. The paramedic violated protocols and assigned scarce resources to the non-responsive 9 y/o contrary to policy.

Then again, he put the dead girl on the first chopper out instead of the head shot Congresswoman, although she was stable for transport.

The Congresswoman arrived some minutes later at the hospital on a later chopper when they got one.

The paramedic is lucky the Congresswoman lived, else the defense attorney would have him on the stand explaining how the medics actions were the proximate cause of death, not the defendants

The Drill SGT said...

my mistake, the 9 y/o and the Congresswoman both appear to have gone by ground ambulance, but they sent the dead girl out first while the Congresswoman waited

prairie wind said...

When the family of Gabe Zimmerman asked the doctor what happened to their son:


“I don’t have this patient here, so that must be lucky for you,” he recalled telling them. “I think if I had you on my list, that would have meant you were shot and injured.”

“It didn’t dawn on me that they could have been killed in the field, and that’s indeed what happened,” Dr. Rhee said, who was once a Navy surgeon. “I gave them a false sense of hope at that stage, before they got the real news.”

Roughly an hour passed before the family knew what really happened.

Mr. Zimmerman, an aide to Ms. Giffords, had been pronounced dead at the scene.


I don't want to beat up on the doc for this--the circumstances were so extreme--but was anyone else shocked by his assumption? He used to be a Navy surgeon, though perhaps never in a battle situation.

Cedarford said...

The Drill SGT said...
my mistake, the 9 y/o and the Congresswoman both appear to have gone by ground ambulance, but they sent the dead girl out first while the Congresswoman waited

=================
I don't think any EMT violated any protocol. They properly classified 6 shooting victims as "in need of immediate attention", 5 dead on the scene.
Meanwhile, other teams were working on other badly hurt gunshot victims. There wasn't just 1 EMT there.

The 9 year old was being worked by one team that had her in an ambulance and at the hospital well before the 20-25 minutes CPR is normally done elapsed. It was the doctor's decision to work on her further in a last ditch effort to bring her back..and he left her with a free resident when he was informed that others had arrived with life-threatening injuries.

There is also a tad bit of elitism - likely unintentional - in Drill SGT's post. An implication that VIPs naturally deserve head of the line privileges in everything.

"Dr Kildare, we have 3 heart attack victims that just arrived! A mailman that collapsed on his route, a CEO who fell ill in the Boardroom, and a Congressman who clutched his chest in a restaurant and was brought here".

"Obviously, the Congressman's life is the most important. Have the residents see if they can stabilize the CEO while I work the Congressman. Hopefully the mailman can wait.."

Quaestor said...

Hagar wrote: ...[D]id not a Representative once take a shot at another in the House? Would it really be wise to let the Members of Congress "pack heat"?

In the very chambers of Congress? No. There were a few instances of fisticuffs, but the caning of Charles Sumner by Preston "Bully" Brooks was by far the most egregious. However, Bladensburg, Maryland was the scene of more than fifty pistol duels, some between serving members of the Delegation.

The one case I know about found Rep. Jonathan Cilley of Maine facing Rep. William J. Graves of Kentucky. However, the issue was between Cilley and New York newspaper publisher James Webb. Webb didn't show at the appointed time and Graves, acting as second for Webb, took his place. Graves shot Cilley in the femoral artery, a wound that killed the gentleman from Maine in a few minutes.

edutcher said...

That's got to be one of the most heart-rending things you can do as part of your job. And, as Sarge notes, no matter what your decision, there are plenty of ways you can later be made to regret it.

PS Anent Congresspeople carrying guns, Quaestor answered my next point, that there were probably plenty of duels fought in the pre-Civil War days. Letting Congresspeople pack a rod seems kind of pointless as many strike me as a rather gutless crew.

PPS That doesn't rule out the old western proverb, "There's nothing more dangerous than a coward with a gun."

Christy said...

Nice article. I was reading with tears welling up until I got to the end when the doctor went to the Funeral of Green dressed in his scrubs. With his white doctors coat over, of course. All of which goes to show that one can be a life saving hero and a complete jerk at the same time.

Mark O said...

Why is this sort of detail in the newspaper?

The Drill SGT said...

C4 said...I don't think any EMT violated any protocol. They properly classified 6 shooting victims as "in need of immediate attention", 5 dead on the scene.
Meanwhile, other teams were working on other badly hurt gunshot victims. There wasn't just 1 EMT there.

The 9 year old was being worked by one team that had her in an ambulance and at the hospital well before the 20-25 minutes CPR is normally done elapsed.


No, their standard was 15, and the doc knew she'd had at least 20-25. But the fault wasn't his, he had nobody else to work on because the EMT sent the wrong patient out.



Mr. Compagno could see quickly that five were dead, seven were “immediates,” needing help right away, and the rest could wait.

The child receiving CPR was not responding, but Mr. Compagno was not about to write her off.

“The little girl, I counted her as an immediate,” he said.


5 were dead. the 9/o with no pulse wasn't dead? The guy was supposed to focus everything on the immediates with pulses. He moved the dead girl into the immediate group and then she became their highest priority as indicated by the fact she got the first ambulance when others were stable as well.

That's not the way triage works

my comment had nothing to do with elitism on my part, there could have been a mailman there who also should have gone out early. my comment compared the dead girl to the headshot congresswoman, because that is all the article featured. no facts on the others.

dont tread 2012 said...

Heartbreaking.

I hope the evil cretin rots.

wv - pactin

10 people in a phone booth

SteveR said...

Easy to second guess, I can't fault anyone for going farther for a nine year old.

PatCA said...

For all of you criticizing the responders, don't worry, ObamaCare will fix all that!

The Secretary of HHS is writing the 90K pages of rules and regs right now. I hope that they will be able to take their 12.5-minute break at any time so it doesn't interfere with treating someone.

And what is wrong with Rhee wearing his coat?

Florida said...

Some of them would probably still be alive if Sheriff Dupnick hadn't stopped the ambulances and emergency medical personnel from tending to the wounded as soon as they showed up.

It was 20 minutes before Sheriff Dupnick would allow the wounded to receive medical care ... 20 life-saving minutes wasted by a bureaucrat too scared to enter the crime scene and tend to those in need.

What a shame.

The Drill SGT said...

Florida,

do you have a citation for that?

David said...

It's terrible that our country has such a woeful medical system. Only the government can fix it.

Cedarford said...

I think "Florida" is just indulging in a little fact-absent blood libel, Drill SGT.

Read your response to my pointing out the CPR done on the kid did not apparantly affect any shooting victim outcomes.

Still early, there should be an after-action review of the whole paramedic/bystander help scene response. However, many of those are not released to the general public on fears slavering lawyers might find someone to sue.

David said...

Hey, if it had been my 9 year old, I sure as hell would have wanted them to try.

The EMT's have to make quick decisions under tremendous pressure. It's really low to criticize them from the comfort of our homes, way after the fact.

Please back off.

JAL said...

re Florida on the delay:

If you look at the time line the police did delay while they set up a perimeter. Though I don't think it was 20 minutes, IIRC.

I remember looking at the time line and thinking, mmmm.... (Did any of the 911 calls say the shooter was down?)

But then, I think Monday Morning Quarterback is an over rated position.