December 8, 2010

If you're thinking of saying something about Elizabeth Edwards in the comments to the previous post....

... you need to put it here instead.

ADDED: Let me front-page something Clyde said in the comments to yesterday's post noting the death of Elizabeth Edwards:
This is probably an inappropriate question, but if as some have speculated, she knew the end was near and stopped taking the drugs: Did she decide to check out in December before the Death Tax kicks back in in 2011? Dying before January would be very lucrative for heirs, as opposed to hanging on until January 1st and having her estate get slammed with a 55% tax (or I think 35% if the deal Obama made with the Republicans goes through)...
AND: Irene said:
Rich people like Elizabeth Edwards plan for death, and their lawyers draft dispositions that minimize the impact of the estate tax. She knew she was dying, and she probably had a plan that gave a good chunk to charity. She also had plenty of warning since her initial diagnosis, and she could take advantage of making lifetime gifts to her children.

If she didn't plan, then everything passes to John Edwards without any tax implications. They're still married, and there is an unlimited marital deduction for spouses.
I didn't realize they were still married. Did they stay married as a tax-planning scheme?

211 comments:

1 – 200 of 211   Newer›   Newest»
Treacle said...

she got a shitty, raw deal: a dead kid, a philandering husband, a surprise love-child from her philandering husband and terminal cancer with young kids. given that deal, who can blame her for making the choices she made? and if she seemed bitchy on the campaign trail, well, under the circumstances . . .

Scott M said...

From the "What If" file, if John Edwards had gotten the nomination and won the whole shootin' match, we'd be faced with a president in mourning and two years of a widower president. When is the last time we had a single pres?

(Clinton doesn't count)

Ann Althouse said...

I don't have a problem with EE seeming or even being bitchy. I have a problem with her participation in a power-seeking deception.

Ann Althouse said...

@Scott M ... What a hot sex opportunity that would have been for the big man.

virgil xenophon said...

I'm with Ann here on the power-seeking deception bit..

Greg Hlatky said...

When is the last time we had a single pres?

Woodrow Wilson. His wife, Ellen, died half way through his first term. He remarried (to Edith Galt) in 1915).

MadisonMan said...

Fen, I think you would have lost the bet had anyone taken you up on it.

MadisonMan said...

On the subject of death, by the way, This made me laugh. Just the visual that I'm imagining is making me grin.

DaveW said...

I read that thread yesterday and I totally did not get how Althouse was dancing on Elizabeth Edwards' grave, or saying anything negative about her at all.

The linked article said that John was there when she died. I was a bit surprised by that because I thought they were divorced-divorced, not just "divorced", as Whoopi might put it.

But if she wanted him there, and that's what she got, good for her. Having a loved one hold your hand is probably the best you can hope for when you're dying.

tree hugging sister said...

I have a problem with her participation in a power-seeking deception.

Say aMEN, mah sistah!!

But she's gone, God rest her soul, and in a horrible fashion. And that single sentence will forever taint whatever sainthood might have been conferred upon her/asterisk her life. And her daughter will always know, whatever excuses might be made to explain. That's horribly sad.

Scott M said...

I don't have a problem with EE seeming or even being bitchy. I have a problem with her participation in a power-seeking deception.

This. 100% agree.

Fen said...

Madison: Fen, I think you would have lost the bet had anyone taken you up on it.

I hope you're right, but I still have about 6+ hours.

Ann Althouse said...

"she got a shitty, raw deal: a dead kid, a philandering husband, a surprise love-child from her philandering husband and terminal cancer with young kids."

She got a better deal than most human beings. She lived to the age of 61. She had 3 beautiful children, only one of whom died young. She was smart, happy, and beautiful for most of her life. She had a nice, handsome husband with a big cock who was greatly admired and brought her great admiration and wealth.

There are 2 sides to life's ledger. She had some big negatives but also many huge positives.

Scott M said...

She had a nice, handsome husband with a big cock

and

There are 2 sides to life's ledger. She had some big negatives but also many huge positives.

Jay said...

Did she decide to check out in December before the Death Tax kicks back in in 2011?

Um, no.

The people with real wealth in this country don't have piles of cash sitting around and then heir it upon their death.

They use trusts and some other vehicles to shield it from estate (and income) taxes.

garage mahal said...

She committed the unforgivable sin of being ambitious, a Democrat, and most of all, being smart. Which to some Republican women unfortunately brings out the worst in them.

jr565 said...

Ann Althouse wrote:
I don't have a problem with EE seeming or even being bitchy. I have a problem with her participation in a power-seeking deception.


Please. If you're running for office you're presenting yourself as a candidate that is whistle clean. You don't air your laundry in public. Yet, that persona is a deception and seeking public office is power seeking. So therefore, anyone running for president is engaged in that same power seeking deception. So why not hold everyone to that same standard?
And what deception? Did she lie about her having cancer? Did she lie about her husband running around on her? Well, she probably didn't know right away, but even if she found out about it before the story was leaked in the Enquirer, what do you think she owes you or the public? She should sabotage her husbands career and wreck her family simply because you want to find out about Edward's love child? Most families I know who have dark secrets generally try to keep those secrets under wraps. And people have married relationships where they are hurt by their spouse and still put on a brave face for the public because they are trying to protect their family from public ruin. While not condoning Edwards dalliances with that trollop I can certainly understand Elizabeth's reaction. She probably told Edwards that she will be there for him and his career and will pretend to be the dutiful wife, but that she hates his guts and as soon as the presidency thing fails or he finishes his term she will divorce him. Or maybe she'd learn to live with it and say, the trollop was just a fling and the family is more important. WHo cares? That kind of stuff happens behind the scenes in marriages all the time.
THE LADY JUST DIED OF CANCER THOUGH. Give her a break!

Irene said...

"Did she decide to check out in December before the Death Tax kicks back in in 2011?"

Rich people like Elizabeth Edwards plan for death, and their lawyers draft dispositions that minimize the impact of the estate tax. She knew she was dying, and she probably had a plan that gave a good chunk to charity. She also had plenty of warning since her initial diagnosis, and she could take advantage of making lifetime gifts to her children.

If she didn't plan, then everything passes to John Edwards without any tax implications. They're still married, and there is an unlimited marital deduction for spouses.

Treacle said...

"She got a better deal than most human beings. She lived to the age of 61. She had 3 beautiful children, only one of whom died young. She was smart, happy, and beautiful for most of her life. She had a nice, handsome husband with a big cock who was greatly admired and brought her great admiration and wealth."

me: is this response a joke? "only one of whom died young". you have multiple kids? pick "only one of whom" you would want to see die young. would affect your life? if it did affect your life and then you had other kids to fill the gap - as appears to have happened here - what do you do when, in the middle of a campaign, you discover your husband is fucking around? and you discover you have terminal cancer. do you blow the whistle on the whole thing, or do you try to scrape by without having to endure, with your young kids, a colossally bad meltdown. do you do whatever you can to salvage some measure of dignity?

as for how well she lived in life, i don't buy it. from all appearances, she worked her ass off. she got a dead kid and then, all at once, terminal breast cancer and a piece of shit husband at the same time. in the middle of a presidential campaign. how much money would it take for you to be fine with a humiliating nationally-broadcast display that you were cheated on by meade? after you were diagnosed with terminal breast cancer. and what amount of $ would it take for you to have to explain it to your young kids?

i can see why, under the circumstances, she chose path a (i.e., continue the campaign) rather than path b (watching with her kids as the campaign went lewinsky). she had poor options, and she picked the best she could.

Clyde said...

And so we see why I'm a postal worker and not a tax lawyer!

Fen said...

jr565: [...]

JR, do you know why candidates for President are vetted?

Assume that John Edwards dodged this scandal long enough to defeat McCain. What would have happened to his presidency once it all finally came out? People are looking at jail time for this.

You think its wise to invite a Special Prosecutor into the room and get bogged down with an impeachment trial while Al Queda is trying to sneak a WMD in?

She should sabotage her husbands career and wreck her family simply because you want to find out about Edward's love child?

Again, the context is vetting a candidate for POTUS and how the fallout from John's scam would have affected his presidency. No one cares about his love child if he's not running for office.

Fen said...

she got a dead kid and then, all at once, terminal breast cancer and a piece of shit husband at the same time. in the middle of a presidential campaign. how much money would it take for you to be fine with a humiliating nationally-broadcast display that you were cheated on? after you were diagnosed with terminal breast cancer.


"And then there's Elizabeth - who, far from the saint we all imagine, is in fact a monster! If losing a child and bearing up nobly under illness make one a female icon, reads the subtext, well, cursing and riding her staff hard suggest exactly the converse - and there is, apparently, nothing in between. I'm more than willing to believe that Elizabeth Edwards' deification was phony, not to say creepy, given its basis in suffering: I'm also willing to believe that she's a lousy boss. But there is something deeply troubling about deifying a woman for things that happened TO her, however horrible, while excoriating her for what she actually does".

Treacle said...

fen - who is deifying ee? you know the piece of shit you are married to is, well, a piece of shit. you also know that he's going to outlive you within the next few years, and he'll have the kids. under the circumstances, would you hit your family's self-destruct button on a national stage? i wouldn't.

Meade said...

Fen is right at 9:02. The truth is John and Elizabeth Edwards thought they could get away with it. They're lawyers. Spinning is their forte. But it all spun out of their control.

Treacle said...

meade: "The truth is John and Elizabeth Edwards thought they could get away with it"

me: two problems with this line of thinking

1. the implied assumption that they were "trying to get away with it" for the sake of accumulating political power. i don't know much about ee at all, but i don't sense her life was about grasping at political power like the clintons always did. did she have a history that would suggest that's what she was after? nakedly grabbing at political power?

2. this disregards personal factors at play. she's dying. he's getting the kids. again: hit the family's self-destruct button or not?

american girl in italy said...

"The fact is, Elizabeth Edwards was in a power-seeking alliance with a sleazeball who put his own desires ahead of ours, and she and he used her cancer as a tool to manipulate minds."

I'm with Ann.

They lied to the American people during the campaign and defrauded supporters out of millions of dollars.

People make mistakes, people cheat, but what they did went beyond just a couple going through a rough patch because of a chronic illness. From the fraudulent presidential campaign, to sex tapes, and trashy novels and denying the existence of a child...

She also went on national tv and treated *the other woman* worse than her lying cheating fraudulent husband.

I'm sorry for her children that they lost their mother, but you won't find me crying over it.

Treacle said...

american girl in italy: "I'm sorry for her children that they lost their mother, but you won't find me crying over it"

me: who's asking you to cry over it?

your husband's running for president. you find out he's fucking around on you, but no one seems to know. and you have an 8 year old and a 10 year old with that piece of trash husband. and you'll be dead before the kids graduate from high school.

under those circumstances, i'll cut you an awful lot of slack if you try to navigate the path of least resistance for your family.

k*thy said...

If I were living Elizabeth Edwards' life, I'm not sure who I'd be by now, and that uncertainty is mighty humbling.

We want to believe the best about ourselves. We watch someone else stumble and insist we'd respond differently. But live long enough, and life will bring you to your knees. I have not buried a child. I do not have incurable cancer. I have not been betrayed by the man I love, never had to set eyes on the baby the entire world knows he fathered behind my back.

I know this: I would stumble forward in pieces. Some days, a brave version of me would face the world. Other days, the broken me would beat a retreat. I'm not at all sure a crazy part of me wouldn't lash out at those who least deserve it.

Maybe I'm stronger than that. Maybe I'll never have to find out.


Connie Schultz, Cleveland Plain Dealer

c3 said...

Professor;
I don't get the haterade for Elizabeth Edwards.

Is this some women and/or neo-feminist thing?

Fen said...

Treacle: fen - who is deifying ee?

Everyone who wants to ignore her role in the scam because she had cancer.

you know the piece of shit you are married to is, well, a piece of shit. you also know that he's going to outlive you within the next few years, and he'll have the kids. under the circumstances, would you hit your family's self-destruct button on a national stage?

I think by then the self-destruct button is long gone. Thats the hole in your argument - you claim she was motivated to save a family that was already destroyed.

Also, POTUS belongs to the nation, he serves us. Not his family.

HDHouse said...

I think that the late Ms. Edwards was smart enough to do her estate planning and there was no deadline to beat.

as to Ann's "power-seeking deception"...best advice, you have dug in that whole for now three threads and you are finding no treasure. perhaps it is best to stop digging.

Fen said...

c3: Professor, I don't get the haterade for Elizabeth Edwards.

Try this:

Ann: Elizabeth Edwards participated in the use of her disease to manipulate public opinion in her husband's quest for power. For that, she is accountable.

american girl in italy said...

me: who's asking you to cry over it?

- No one. I am stating my opinion. Last I checked, still allowed.

"your husband's running for president."

- Elizabeth knew of the affair BEFORE he announced his candidacy. She supported his decision to run despite his affair and her cancer. She participated in the fraud.

under those circumstances, i'll cut you an awful lot of slack if you try to navigate the path of least resistance for your family.

- Normally I would too. But NOT when they fraud the American people of that extent.

Running for President is NOT the path of least resistance - especially when you are dying from cancer and the candidate is having an affair that has begun to leak and has resulted in an illegitimate child..

HDHouse said...

Ann Althouse said...
"She had 3 beautiful children, only one of whom died young. "

My God! What a break. Only one died young. How incredibly lucky she was. We all share in Ann's summation of Ms. Edwards living the good life of a swell.

Fen said...

But live long enough, and life will bring you to your knees. I have not buried a child. I do not have incurable cancer. I have not been betrayed by the man I love, never had to set eyes on the baby the entire world knows he fathered behind my back. I know this: I would stumble forward in pieces. Some days, a brave version of me would face the world. Other days, the broken me would beat a retreat. I'm not at all sure a crazy part of me wouldn't lash out at those who least deserve it. Maybe I'm stronger than that. Maybe I'll never have to find out.

Whatever. You lost me at "life will bring you to your knees". Because I can't forget the Somoli girl we showered with candy in Mogadishu. Her parents were murdered when she was 4. Odds are she starved to death. Or was stoned to death under Islam. Or was murdered in a cross-fire between rival tribes.

Treacle said...

fen: "I think by then the self-destruct button is long gone. Thats the hole in your argument - you claim she was motivated to save a family that was already destroyed"

me: who said the family is destroyed? her relationship with her husband destroyed? yes. the relationship of her kids with her husband, who will be surviving her in a very few years - is that relationship destroyed? no.

i wouldn't deify ee, but i wouldn't assassinate her either. she had a number of factors intersect at the worst possible time, leaving her with the shittiest of options. under the circumstances, i'm cutting her slack that she didn't hit her family's self-destruct button.

edutcher said...

The people doing the complaining in the previous thread are the same small c communists who would love to dance on the grave of any woman named Palin.

Ann told the truth, as just about every other observer of American politics saw it. Elizabeth Edwards made the same deal as Hillary Clinton.

HDHouse said...
Ann Althouse said...

"She had 3 beautiful children, only one of whom died young. "

My God! What a break. Only one died young. How incredibly lucky she was. We all share in Ann's summation of Ms. Edwards living the good life of a swell.


Even you know she didn't mean it that way. There are some women who lose all their children young.

Don't be churlish.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

you know the piece of shit you are married to is, well, a piece of shit. you also know that he's going to outlive you within the next few years, and he'll have the kids. under the circumstances, would you hit your family's self-destruct button on a national stage?

I would.

The kids will get over it and I would die happy knowing that I had destroyed the evil, self serving bastard and saved the public from him.


Trying to compare the quality of EE life to the quality of another is ridiculous.

You can be poor but happy, you can be rich and unhappy. Shit happens in peoples lives.....it is how you deal with it that counts and it is how you deal with it that is the measure of your life and character. In this instance, supporting a power seeking deception, Elizabeth fails.

Is it better and easier to deal with the challenges of life (dead child, cheating husband, illness) when you have money. Of COURSE it is. Would I rather be facing the slings and arrows with a pile of money to stand upon. F**k yes.

ndspinelli said...

We all have a dark side. I made a living exposing people's 7 deadly sins. In the death of Ms. Edwards, all one needs to do is read the hate filled posts. The "big cock" reference would seem to expose one of those 7 deadly sins.

Fen said...

me: who said the family is destroyed? her relationship with her husband destroyed? yes. the relationship of her kids with her husband, who will be surviving her in a very few years - is that relationship destroyed? no.

Then please explain the difference - whether she outed John or not, the damage still came home to affect the relationship between her kids and John. Her active participation in John's scam did nothing to shield her children.

i wouldn't deify ee, but i wouldn't assassinate her either.

I'm not trying to assassinate her either. But if people continue to pretend she didn't use her disease to manipulate public opinion in her husband's quest for power, I'll continue to correct them.

Ann Althouse said...

"me: is this response a joke? "only one of whom died young". you have multiple kids? pick "only one of whom" you would want to see die young. would affect your life?"

It's not a joke at all. It is a reality check about human life over the course of history and over the geographical expanse of the earth. What do you know of the lives human beings have lived? She had a life that was surely in the top 10% or better of human lives lived. If you want to cry for the pain human beings have suffered, begin somewhere else.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Trying to compare the quality of EE life to the quality of another is ridiculous.

I mean, trying to keep score. Racking up points.

Minus: Dead kid. Cheating husband. Ill health. Death.

Positives: Money, good looks, intelligence, power.

We can't keep score on someone else's life.

Fen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fen said...

MrSensitive: In the death of Ms. Edwards, all one needs to do is read the hate filled posts.

Cite?

The "big cock" reference would seem to expose one of those 7 deadly sins.

Explain how the cock reference exposes one of those 7.

You can put Elizabeth's corpse down if you're tiring. We get that you "compasionate"...

David said...

Well, if Clyde is right, she did the right thing.

The quality of life is pretty low at the end. It becomes easier and easier to let go.

The tax benefit is a bonus.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I'm with Althouse.

If you want to feel sorry for a woman going through a terrible time, there are many more deserving that Elizabeth Edwards, many of whom probably live very close to YOU. People YOU can do something about. People who are right now having terrible difficulties. People YOU can help.

Why aren't you?

Treacle said...

thinking more about it, what was ee's "deception" here? did she lie and say john didn't have an affair?

Ann Althouse said...

Oh, you lefties, how you love to express your opposition to The Rich in general, and how you kneel down and suck up to particular rich individuals that you decide to favor. If you want to cry, cry for the truly disadvantaged people in the world.

John Edwards slathered "2 Americas" bullshit on us until we almost made him President. But he was a very rich man who took all the advantages for himself that he wanted. The woman who yoked herself to him in marriage got many good things but not all good things.

Edwards got rich using his good looks and smooth talking to convince juries to hand over huge awards to suffering people who you don't remember. He used the death of his son and his wife's cancer to make himself appear more intensely empathetic to those unknown, unnamed poor people whom we were encouraged to express our concern for by voting for him.

It was all a shabby lie.

Ann Althouse said...

Instead of writing comments here about how cold-hearted I am, why don't you go to the hospital, nursing home, or prison and shower love on some suffering person who doesn't have a visitor today?

Fen said...

Why aren't you?

Because people like "ndspinelli" don't really believe in the things they lecture us about. For them, its not about Elizabeth, its about exagerating honest criticism into dancing on someone's grave. So they can feel better about themselves when they piss on Cheney's grave.

They're only in the thread to fuel their own outrage. We might as well supply it, because they will damn us for doing so even if we don't.

Treacle said...

dust bunny queen: "If you want to feel sorry for a woman . . . ."

me: i seem to have developed the unusual capacity to feel sorry for more than one person at a time. it comes in handy for things like 9/11 and life in general. i hope some day you are able to develop a similar capacity, dbq.

Ann Althouse said...

I know that's hard, so why not reach out to the 3 individuals among your family and friends who, by your estimation, are feeling most alone or in pain right now? It is the living who suffer. Who are you ignoring right now in order to pose ridiculously in the comments to a blog about how much you care for a rich woman, whom you don't know personally, and who is already dead?

David said...

Death comes to us all.

No one has a right to a particular kind or length of life.

Elizabeth Edwards got no raw deal in life. She had health, opportunity, love, power, wealth, beauty and great experiences.

For her it ended sooner than some, but later than many. That's life.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

i hope some day you are able to develop a similar capacity, dbq.

I also hope someday you develop the capacity to read and understand words. You did get from my post that I was discussing YOU helping other "people" that are real, alive and near your. People does connotate more than one person at a time.

Treacle: you are pathetic.

virgil xenophon said...

Having assoc. myself w. Althouse I'll also join DBQ here. Same logic for all those who who argue that we aren't taxed enough. Hey, one can ALWAYS send the Treasury an additional check, right? Or plow a ton of money to one's favorite Charity. Puleeezzee...so much for charity and compassion..

Treacle said...

(allegedly) ann althouse: "It's not a joke at all. It is a reality check about human life over the course of history and over the geographical expanse of the earth. What do you know of the lives human beings have lived? She had a life that was surely in the top 10% or better of human lives lived. If you want to cry for the pain human beings have suffered, begin somewhere else."

me: i honestly don't believe that's an ann althouse comment. i really don't think ann althouse would believe that the value of her own life depends on whether others had it better or worse than she did.

Fen said...

Treacle: i hope some day you are able to develop a similar capacity, dbq.

Treacle: thinking more about it, what was ee's "deception" here?

Yah, you should prob keep your powder dry until you can catch up.

Treacle said...

dust bunny queen: "I also hope someday you develop the capacity to read and understand words."

me: thanks.

dust bunny queen: "I was discussing YOU helping other "people" that are real, alive and near your. People does connotate more than one person at a time."

me: when did i say anyone should be helping anyone? when did i say anyone should be helping ee, for that matter?

dust bunny queen: "Treacle: you are pathetic"

me: o.k.

jr565 said...

Ann Althouse wrote:
She had a life that was surely in the top 10% or better of human lives lived. If you want to cry for the pain human beings have suffered, begin somewhere else."
So I guess because she had a good life the death of her son was not really something any one should have sympathy over. SHe can't really be suffering because her husband has a big cock and she makes a lot of money. Her death due to cancer is not really worhty of our sympathies because her husband had a big cock and she made a lot of money.
Ann probably has a better life than a lot of people out there. SHe has her own blog and is a law professor. If she suffers a life calamity, lets all give her the same amount of sympathy. Not worthy of one instance of our sympathy when there are starving people in china and homeless people in the world. SHe can't really suffer. Because she has a blog and is a law professor.

Fen said...

Treacle: i honestly don't believe that's an ann althouse comment. i really don't think ann althouse would believe that the value of her own life depends on whether others had it better or worse than she did.

Grats on disbelieving your own Strawman. Well done.

Treacle said...

Fen: "Yah, you should prob keep your powder dry until you can catch up."

me: seriously, when did someone ask ee "is john having an affair" and she answered "no"?

former law student said...

Did they stay married as a tax-planning scheme?

More likely so she could continue her health insurance. Supposedly you have to be separated for a year before you can divorce in NC; she just announced the separation in late January.

Treacle said...

Fen: "Well done."

me: thanks!

Michael said...

Elizabeth Edwards was the wife of an ambulance chaser and delighted to benefit from the proceeds of gross jury awards. She was, as has been noted, a lawyer herself so she was not exactly unmindful of what her sleazy husband did for a living. She was happy to be the non-sanctimonious cancer patient to further her ambulance chasing husband's chance for the presidency. When that failed she became another famous person acting like they were the only people in the world to have cancer and "be brave about it."

Michael said...

FLS: don't be a doofus. The Edwards would not stay married to keep their health insurance. LOL. do you have any earthly idea of how much money JE has?

chuck b. said...

I am stupefied that so many people, not just here, have pretty much anything to say about Elizabeth Edwards. Which just goes to show you what little I pay attention to things.

This was on Metafilter yesterday:

Elizabeth Edwards was diagnosed the month I finished chemo. Our paths crossed at numerous events while her husband was campaigning and one rainy night, low turnout, we wound up in a corner at some gallery in Chelsea, knocking back white wine and yakking about the trauma of losing your hair. Her husband approached and she leaned in to me and said, "Thank god his hair's not in peril," dry as toast. I am so so sad that she's gone, but so so happy that I am still here. Thank you Elizabeth, for the laugh.

traditionalguy said...

There are only two trust mechanisms to reduce the Taxable Estate. The marital bequest up to half the deceased's net assets, and the Credit Shelter trust for the exemption credit. In 2010 no Estate tax existed. In 2011 the old credit of 3.5 M went down to 1M where it had been before the Bush Tax bill. The compromise Obama announced inserts a 5M credit. Therefore tax rate of 35& or 55% grabs the out of Trust assets over 10M or so when spouse two dies. I doubt EE had her separate assets over that.

Fen said...

jr565: So I guess because she had a good life the death of her son was not really something any one should have sympathy over.

If Elizabeth had callously used Wade's death as a prop to advance John's career, then yes, I would have less sympathy for her.

You're starting to catch on.

jr565 said...

Dust Bunny Queen wrote:
f you want to feel sorry for a woman going through a terrible time, there are many more deserving that Elizabeth Edwards, many of whom probably live very close to YOU. People YOU can do something about. People who are right now having terrible difficulties. People YOU can help.

Is it possible that you can help people close to you and also have sympathy for others,even if they are rich?
And lets apply the same logic to tax cuts that we apply to Edwards. Why should we give two shits about rich people and their woes? THey have more money than the lowest of the low, so why are the republicans catering to them, when there is real suffering in the world? We should have the same sympathy towards the woes of the rich and their desire to not be taxed to death that we do to Edwards and her riches and her big cocked husband. None. So if the govt taxes rich people to death, screw them. They aren't suffering like the homeless so I could give two shits.
Class envy at it's worst.

ndspinelli said...

Fen,

If you were above dull/normal you could read that I am not a "liberal" and I will not dance on Cheney's grave. My compassion is for the people who loved Ms. Edwards...like her kids, who have lost their mother. I pray for the living, not the dead. However, your ilk do strain the limits of my compassion. I always try to find the positive. I hear you recently stopped beating your dog. Good job.

Regarding the "big cock" seven deadly sin reference. The edict is we must be obtuse when making certain critiques. What's hilarious is you don't get it!

jr565 said...

Fen wrote:

f Elizabeth had callously used Wade's death as a prop to advance John's career, then yes, I would have less sympathy for her.

You're starting to catch on.


That is merely your interpretation of her actions based on your hatred of her. How do you know that she wasn't genuinely devastated by the death of her son. Screw you.
You can't see into her heart.

Irene said...

The divorce was not finalized.

MadisonMan said...

Did they stay married as a tax-planning scheme?

I suspect (as a non-divorced person) that divorcing someone might take perhaps considerable energy and emotional willpower. Combine that with a bout of cancer and the certainty of death?

Maybe she decided her time was better spent doing other things, like being with her kids.

Floridan said...

AA: "I know that's hard, so why not reach out to the 3 individuals among your family and friends who, by your estimation, are feeling most alone or in pain right now?"

But be sure to check and determine that they deserve it.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Did they stay married as a tax-planning scheme?

Maybe she decided her time was better spent doing other things, like being with her kids.


Probably both of those things.

Fen said...

ndspinelli: Fen, If you were above dull/normal you could read that -

[yawn]

I notice you ran away from my request that you provide evidence of all these "hateful" posts re Elizabeth Edwards.

Just admit it, the only reason you are even here is to invent the hatred. For political points. Off of Elizabeth's dead body.

former law student said...

What if the Enquirer was right, that Sarah Palin had had an affair with Todd's former business partner Brad Hanson? Would Althouse be castigating Todd on his deathbed for pretending that all was well in their happy sparkling Christian family?

Considering that the Enquirer was the only paper to break the Edwards' infidelity story, we can't simply dismiss the Palin infidelity story.

Fen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fen said...

JR: That is merely your interpretation of her actions based on your hatred of her. How do you know that she wasn't genuinely devastated by the death of her son. Screw you.
You can't see into her heart.


Huh?

All I said was that IF Elizabeth had used Wade's death to further John's career, I would have less sympathy for her.

Try reading things twice thru while you're suffering through your emotional meltdown.

Darcy said...

Fascinating.

ndspinneli and jr566: Thank you.

HDHouse said...

Ann Althouse said...
Oh, you lefties.....If you want to cry, cry for the truly disadvantaged people in the world.

I do think about and work in favor the disadvantaged - assuming you are limiting yourself to illness, poverty, and that sort of thing.

I also cry for the souls who wander through life without a trace of compassion.

Recent postings are reminders of those folks stand outside graveyards during the burials of gays and scream at their families and mourners. To what end? To what purpose?

These threads are in extremely poor taste and fairly disturbing expressions of some Krell-like demon floating around.

Darcy said...

Er, jr565, that is.

MadisonMan said...

Probably both of those things.

Yes. Divorce is expensive. If you're dying soon, and the husband is going to raise the kids anyway, I'm not sure what the point would be.

Irene said...

I agree with MadisonMan. A person experiencing a terminal event might want to avoid divorce for several reasons, and the emotional toll would be at the top of the list.

Someone who decides not to divorce not only preserves the marital deduction also saves a lot of money in lawyer fees. More importantly, the custody issue does not arise.

(Yeah, the custody issue raises more interesting questions.)

Fen said...

FLS: What if the Enquirer was right, that Sarah Palin had had an affair with Todd's former business partner Brad Hanson? Would Althouse be castigating Todd on his deathbed for pretending that all was well in their happy sparkling Christian family?

First off, grats on resisting the tempation to reach for another Tu Quoque until now. You tried yesterday with Hillary and failed, so I don't see why you think it will work re Palin. Regardless..

IF Sarah Palin played the Cancer card to protect her campaign, ie. used her illness to manipulate public opinion in her quest for power.. then yes. Ann would hold her accountable for it.

jr565 said...

Fen wrote:
All I said was that IF Elizabeth had used Wade's death to further John's career, I would have less sympathy for her.

How are you any different than people saying Sarah Palin used her retarded baby to further her career?
It's assholish when the left does it and it's assholish when the right does it too.

Fen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fen said...

HdHouse: I do think about and work in favor of the disadvantaged.. I also cry for the souls who wander

Awwww. You think and you cry. How noble of you... Do you also "believe" in World Peace?

Recent postings are reminders of those folks stand outside graveyards during the burials of gays and scream at their families and mourners.

You want to provide an example of such a post? Or are you like ndspinelli, searching in vain for the hatred, creating it from thin air with exageration and hyperbole if the hatred isn't provided.

You're just trying to gin up fuel to sustain your partisan hatred.

These threads are in extremely poor taste and fairly disturbing expressions of some Krell-like demon floating around.

He said with conviction as he climbed atop Elizabeth's corpse to lament the lack of compassion from those evil conservatives...

ndspinelli said...

Fen,

Exhibit A for hate: Read your posts. But first take your meds..you'll lose the highs of bipolar, but it will soften the lows.

I'm done responding to your insanity, now...go pet your monkey.

former law student said...

Elizabeth Edwards participated in the use of her disease to manipulate public opinion in her husband's quest for power.

This conclusory analysis is only worth a C, sorry.

Fen said...

Fen: All I said was that IF Elizabeth had used Wade's death to further John's career, I would have less sympathy for her.

jr565: How are you any different than people saying Sarah Palin used her retarded baby to further her career?

I'll respond to you when you demonstrate some reading comprehension. You're 0-3 in the last 15 mins. Calm down and get ahold of yourself.

Fen said...

ndspineli: Fen, Exhibit A for hate: Read your posts.

Thats the second time you've dodged a good faith request to back up your accusations with evidence.

So I'll note that were not capable of citing even one of these "hateful" posts you've whining on and on about.

I'm done responding to your insanity,

And that you then bravely ran away.

Bye bye ndspineli

Fred4Pres said...

RIP

jr565 said...

Fen wrote:
Fen: All I said was that IF Elizabeth had used Wade's death to further John's career, I would have less sympathy for her.

I'm saying, Sarah Palin used her retarded son cynically for a power grab to try to become president. She put her retarded son out there to cynically garner sympathy in her mad grab for ower. So I have less sympathy for her. If she should die of cancer, well you know, she did use her retarded son cynically for political purposes. So fuck her. Besides, she got to hobnob with the hoi poloi and makes millions on her tours. And I have it on good authority that Todd has a big cock. So again, if she dies, or her son dies or her daughter dies fuck them all. They're all cynical opportunists and we shouldn't waste our sympathies on them.

former law student said...

jr: fen doesn't have to explain his position at all, but he's allowed himself to demand a high standard from others.

Chad said...

I agree with Ann. EE was an ugly dried out cunt and the world is better without her.

Fen said...

See jr, now you're devolving into Libtardism - basing your behavior on what you *imagine* the other side is doing.

Its why you showed up in the thread to begin with. For you, this isn't about Elizabeth. Its about your need to find evidence of conservative hatred for Edwards to justify your own hatred of Palin.

c3 said...

She had a life that was surely in the top 10% or better of human lives lived. If you want to cry for the pain human beings have suffered, begin somewhere else.

I'm still astounded at the vitriol. A hot button has been pushed.

1.Yes, I'm sad when people suffer and die, even if they've made bad choices, lied, stolen, etc. during their lives.

2. Yes, its sad (in a way) that those in the "limelight" get more attention/empathy at such times in their lives than those who silently go about their lives without attention. But I'll still revert to rule #1 above.

3. Reconciliation, recrimination and yes, recovery, are for another time. This is the time for grief-sharing and/or silence.

My key reference point: When Jesus was faced with the death of a friend and the recrimination of his sister (and also a friend) and even though he knew of the better outcome to come, he simply wept. (John 11:28-33)

Fen said...

Former Law Student: jr: fen doesn't have to explain his position at all, but he's allowed himself to demand a high standard from others.

I've explained my self several times now. I even capitalized the qualifier for jr. Maybe if I try it in bold:

"All I said was that IF Elizabeth had used Wade's death to further John's career, I would have less sympathy for her."

You'll have to explain why you find that statement is so objectionable. My guess is that, like nispelli and jr, you have an irrational need to find hatred where none exists. To justify your own.

former law student said...

If I understand the professor's position:

1. Having a cancer-ridden wife confers an unfair advantage on any Presidential candidate (like being half-black or having Muslim forenames, or by not aborting your Down syndrome child).

2. It's OK to lie about your husband's affairs (no castigation of HRC) but you must expose your husband's cheating once his mistress has a baby (EE's perfidy), or

2a. Once your husband's mistress has a baby, you (the cancer-ridden one) must divorce him to take away his unfair advantage in 1.

Jay Retread said...

Given all of the hate expressed here I hope everyone takes Ann a lot less seriously when she does another one of her "Palin is being unfairly picked on!" posts.

Now that you have gotten your red meat, go buy a toaster on Amazon you darn Althouse Hillbillies!

PaulV said...

John Edwards should disclaim any inheritance he gets as an extate planning tool.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Its why you showed up in the thread to begin with. For you, this isn't about Elizabeth. Its about your need to find evidence of conservative hatred for Edwards to justify your own hatred of Palin.

Sometimes it takes a while, but eventually the slime will ooze out for all to see.

You cannot point out anywhere where I have said anything derogatory about EE nor where I am even blaming her for using her cancer or her son's death to promote her husband's slimy political career.

Unlike jr, who continually insults Palin's son by throwing out the 'retarded' epithet: none of the 'real' posters, (not the trolls and Mobys like Chad), have stooped to that level of disgusting behaviour regarding E Edwards death.

The insistance that WE should all have some sort of super sympathy for EE because her life, yada yada yada, is hypocritical. Especially when it has been pointed out that there are probably many more people, right in your neighborhood or among your aquantances, who are just as if not more deserving of sympathy AND actual help.

Yet. The libtards want to stand on top of E Edward's corpse and preach at us.

jr565 said...

Fen wrote:
Its why you showed up in the thread to begin with. For you, this isn't about Elizabeth. Its about your need to find evidence of conservative hatred for Edwards to justify your own hatred of Palin.

No actually, I'm not a liberal and I like Palin. I'm actually a defender of hers, and htink that those who accused her of things because she dared to bring out her downs syndrome baby were a bunch of twats. Only now, it's you guys doing it to a dead woman no less. And you are similarly a bunch of twats.

former law student said...

dbq: there's a big gulf between having super sympathy for someone and finding her to be despicable. Frankly I didn't really care about her one way or the other.

Jay Retread said...

Jr565,

Ann is just whoring herself so she can have some virtual online worshipers because she has no real friends in real life. Well, except Meade, but he is on retainer.

Also, she wants to sell some toasters on Amazon.

Fen said...

C3: I'm still astounded at the vitriol.

Hey C3, maybe you can succeed where all the others have failed: provide some examples of what you mean by "vitriol".

3. Reconciliation, recrimination and yes, recovery, are for another time. This is the time for grief-sharing and/or silence.

Agreed. But that "silence" also applies to mythmaking. If you're going abuse our respect for the dead as cover to rewrite history, to reform her image, then expect some pushback.

We had the same trouble when Teddy died. A number of his supporters wanted to push the narrative that he didn't murder Mary Jo. When people began refuting this with facts, they were accused of violating Ted's dignity and dancing on his grave. Didn't fly then, won't fly now.

If you don't want the mythbuster, don't bring the myth.

Fen said...

Jay: Given all of the hate expressed here I hope everyone

Cool. Another Libtard who sees hate everywhere he looks, but can't produce any evidence to back his claim.

Jay Retread said...

Fen, you and Ann are the ones using EE corpse for political purposes. You're a hypocrite.

Fen said...

former law student: there's a big gulf between having super sympathy for someone and finding her to be despicable.

Who ever said they find Elizabeth despicable?

Frankly I didn't really care about her one way or the other.

Of course not. You came here to confirm that conservatives hate Elizabeth. To fuel your own hatred of us. Having found that none exists, you invent it and then leave.

Fen said...

Jay: Fen, you and Ann are the ones using EE corpse for political purposes. You're a hypocrite.

You can put Elizabeth's body down now.

Jay Retread said...

Fen, Ann is the one spewing crap like EE getting "Big Cock". (I guess Ann is jealous because she only gets to suck on a little cock. See Ann, two can play the incivility game.)

jr565 said...

Dust Bunny Queen wrote:
Unlike jr, who continually insults Palin's son by throwing out the 'retarded' epithet: none of the 'real' posters, (not the trolls and Mobys like Chad), have stooped to that level of disgusting behaviour regarding E Edwards death.

I was being deliberately rude with my commentary and calling her son a retard because I was aping the lefty jerks who basically made fun of her "retarded" kid and accused her of using said kid to avoid criticism and to furhter her political career. It's kind of douchy when applied to Sarah Palin right? So then why reveal yourself to be that same douche and go after a woman who just died and accuse her of using her son's death to cynically further her career?

insistance that WE should all have some sort of super sympathy for EE because her life, yada yada yada, is hypocritical. Especially when it has been pointed out that there are probably many more people, right in your neighborhood or among your aquantances, who are just as if not more deserving of sympathy AND actual help.

Why should we have sympathy for Palin and her down syndrome baby since she similary is doing better than most people and there are others in her shoes who aren't blessed with such a blessed life. I bet there are a bunch of mothers who have downs syndromes babies who don't have their daughters on dancing with the stars who get to discuss their views on Fox News. So again, why should we defend her from scurillous attacks against her or her family when there are others not as blessed as her who we should expend our sympathies on instead?
You don't HAVE to have sympathy for Elizabeth, I just think it's unseemly that you don't. And if I hear you then suggest how we should not go after Sarah Palin and her "retard" and how that's unseemly, I'll have to wonder, is this the same person who just said there are more worthy people in our neighborhoods we should have sympathy for? So then why not apply that to Sarah Palin too? So no more bitching about how much of an asshole Keith Olbermann is for calling Palins daughter the worst person in the world. He's no more of an asshole than you are.

Fen said...

Jay: Fen, Ann is the one spewing crap like EE getting "Big Cock".

So is that the example of "hatred" you'll hang your hat on?

Ann was listing the things Elizabeth had reason to be grateful for, to counter your myth that since her life was a living hell, she should be excused for her sins. You want to explain how thats hateful?

PaulV said...

John Edward was enabled just like Tiger Woods was enabled. His buds were profiting by keeping quiet. Elena was different. She became
THE GIRL WITH THE BILLION DOLLAR NIBLICK.

Fen said...

jr: So then why reveal yourself to be that same douche and go after a woman who just died and accuse her of using her son's death to cynically further her career?

LEARN. TO. FUCKNG. READ.

I said: All I said was that IF Elizabeth had used Wade's death to further John's career, I would have less sympathy for her.

If

if

if

if

IF

Fen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fen said...

jr: Why should we have sympathy for Palin and her down syndrome baby since she similary is doing better than most people and there are others in her shoes who aren't blessed with such a blessed life

No. By *your* standard, we should excuse anything Palin does because the baby has down syndrome. And if you don't excuse her, you're just a mean shallow heartless pig. Thats the argument you're defending.

Scott M said...

Now I'm completely confused (not a huge accomplishment, that). Do the resident Democrats and/or liberals hereabouts think John Edwards was a lying piece of shit that would have tailspun into a crater as a president? Just a lying piece of shit? What?

Trooper York said...

Wait a second. How do you know about the size of John Edwards cock?

Trooper York said...

Are you talking to Mandy Marcotte behind our backs?

Treacle said...

Fen: "LEARN. TO. FUCKNG. READ.

I said: All I said was that IF"

me: IF fen raped a room full of pre-schoolers, i would have less sympathy for fen.

kathleen said...

FLS you make excellent points. (There's a first time for everything I guess...) Why I should be outraged that political candidates put up a false front in order to get/retain support, I'll never know. Hillary Clinton was unparalleled in such deception but since bill's mistresses never brought a baby to term and she never got cancer, then that's a-ok.

Jason said...

I'm as right wing as anyone here, except maybe New Ham, who's half insane, anyway.

Of all the Althouse threads I've read, this one and the EE one before are by far the worst.

Yes, EE did some things that maybe it would have been better for her not to do.

But it was her husband, not her, who was the politician and the public figure.

It's over. Let it be.

jr565 said...

When Reagan died there were some assholes who had to be there to say that Reagan was guilty of genocide for letting gays catch aids and not doing anything about it. Which is as rude and insulting as Phelps standing in front of the funeral of a dead servicemen to point out that they are "fags". Phelps however, is roundly criticized as being the worlds biggest jackass, yet aids activists felt that because of their moral truth they could use Reagan's death to accuse him of being a genocidal murderer. The guy just died. keep your politics to yourself and let the dead rest in peace. if it's unseemly when aids activists do it to Reagan, it is similarly unseemly when conservatives do it to Edwards, who's only real crime as far as I can tell is that her husband had abig cock, embarassed her in front of the country but that she didn't want to have that story out so that her critics could destroy her family and probably wanted John to be president so tried to deal with it privately (as most families would) , that her son died and that she got cancer.

HDHouse said...

@kathleen

outrage is sooooo over used. everything is outrageous. you must listen to sean hannity too much. he is perpetually outraged.

were you outraged that bush the kid played dumb to get sympathy for 8 years?

what do you think here? EE gave herself cancer to further her career goals? she let a child die to gain sympathy?

sad. very very sad.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

dbq: there's a big gulf between having super sympathy for someone and finding her to be despicable. Frankly I didn't really care about her one way or the other.

Me either, not very much. I am always sympathetic to someone who is ill and dying with a un-self inflicted disease and feel for her children, friends and family....even her despicable husband who must have some feelings for his wife.

I resent, however, being told that I MUST have 100% sympathy for her and utter no criticisms of some of her political actions, or else I'm some sort of conservative monster reveling in her death.

You can have sympathy AND be mildly critical at the same time.

Becoming dead does not put you above criticism or make you a saint.

Please point out where I have said bad things about Elizabeth Edwards. Feel free to try.

jr565 said...

Fen wrote:
I said: All I said was that IF Elizabeth had used Wade's death to further John's career, I would have less sympathy for her.


And you're implying that she did. Well, IF Sarah Palin used her "retard" as a prop to avoid criticism and to evoke sympathy in an effort to help her get elected (in other words, cynically used her downs syndrome baby to help in her mad power grab). And why stop there? What about her cynically using her daughters out of wedlock birth to further her career. And why stop there? What about her cynically using her son's military service to further her career?
So she's played the down syndrome card, the dutiful moter of the problem child card, and the dutiful son in the military card, all to further her political career. What a bitch!If she dies of cancer I'll be sure to not give her one ounce of sympathy, especially because her husband Todd has a big cock.

kathleen said...

uh, HDHouse, I don't have hidden messages in my writing like Althouse does. I truly am mystified why I should be outraged by EE. In fact I would go so far to say that every family puts on an (arguably false) front in public, even and especially families that are perfectly normal. The only 2 people who know what's going on in a marriage are the 2 in it, etc

kathleen said...

and the notion that Democrat primaries are careful, fine-tuned evaluations of candidates and their respective psyches and souls is laughable. EE was just one in an infinitely long line of public figures whose marriage and family life didn't live up to the hype.

traditionalguy said...

My guess is that the Edwards'are not divorced for many reasons. It would open Little Johnny to a remarriage he doesn't really want and EE wants to save him from it. Professor Althouse spotted that EE was always the brains behind this duo. Johnny actually fell for the slut love angle with Rielle as a possible replacement for EE when she died. That's very stupid and very low class too. Rielle can never replace the intelligence and cunning of EE in his life.

former law student said...

You came here to confirm that conservatives hate Elizabeth.

I came here to understand why the professor thought Elizabeth should have included an apology in her deathbed Facebook message.

dbq: I didn't mean you despised Elizabeth, sorry. That was just the opposite pole of having supersympathy.

former law student said...

Johnny actually fell for the slut love angle with Rielle as a possible replacement for EE when she died.

Hopefully not. I think this is another case of Monica syndrome -- politicians who think they're ladies men just can't resist a woman who signals her availability.

My rule has always been not to have sex with crazy people.

Roger J. said...

What a thoroughly disgusting thread--and you, professor, promulgated it. You were also the fool that voted for hope and change but you accuse the Edwards of promulgating a lie. You bit on one lie and are now upset that the other lie is out there. Spare me your sanctimony and analysis.
You were a bigger fool than the B oth rubes that voted for Edwards. Both Edwards (John and Elizabeth) were liars--but so was Mr Obama--you just chose the wrong liar.

Scott M said...

My rule has always been not to have sex with crazy people.

It can be pretty amazing. Though you do have to remember to keep a brick under your side of the bed and not allow the ensuing gymnastics not to move you out of arm's reach. And not one of those cheap two-hole construction bricks either. A good, solid, paver.

Hit them on the flat side, though. A corner will send you to the hospital with a crazy person...much, much different and less fun than sex with one.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I'll be sure to not give her one ounce of sympathy, especially because her husband Todd has a big cock.


I don't think that would get a sympathy vote from me.

;-)

Ann Althouse said...

@Trooper The evidence that Edwards is well endowed can be found here.

By the way, I voted for Edwards in the 2004 primary. I thought he was a better candidate than Kerry, and he was the last chance to stop Kerry from being the candidate.

ndspinelli said...

Trooper,

The sex tape Rielle shot was entered into evidence. It's supposed to be confidential but when court officials[attorneys, bailiffs, cops, etc.] get their hands on something, it's NEVER confidential. Reportedly, it's a "big 10 inch".

jr565 said...

Althouse wrote:
If she didn't plan, then everything passes to John Edwards without any tax implications. They're still married, and there is an unlimited marital deduction for spouses.I didn't realize they were still married. Did they stay married as a tax-planning scheme?


Perhaps you don't know as much about Elizabeth Edwards as you profess to know? I figured, such basics about her life would be common knowledge to you.

vza said...

"She had a nice, handsome husband with a big cock who was greatly admired and brought her great admiration and wealth."

Good grief.

jr565 said...

Ann althouse wrote:
She got a better deal than most human beings. She lived to the age of 61. She had 3 beautiful children, only one of whom died young. She was smart, happy, and beautiful for most of her life. She had a nice, handsome husband with a big cock who was greatly admired and brought her great admiration and wealth.


You could say the same about John Lennon. he lived a fabulous life. had two kids (one of who he paid attention to) two wives, fabulous wealth and fame. was part of the most significant group in pop music. Why are we still talking about his death 30 years later? Hasn't he had enough sympathy already? And should he have gotten so much to begin with, considering how blessed he was? We shouldn't have had even one memorial on him anyway because though he died violently plenty of people also die violently who never had the life of John Lennon. So sympathy should go to them.

jr565 said...

Fen wrote:
Again, the context is vetting a candidate for POTUS and how the fallout from John's scam would have affected his presidency. No one cares about his love child if he's not running for office.

And for all his faults what Edwards did was not illegal. If it came out during his presidency that he had a mistress and had a love child it woudl be an embarrasment not a crime.

MamaM said...

Castigating others as mentally ill, by using bi-polar, insanity and crazy as terms of denigration is apparently acceptable; while treacly sympathy for a victim of cancer is presented as mandatory and required behavior for righteousness?

I wish I could laugh at the bizarre carelessness involved with casting aspersions of mental illness on others while promoting ones own compassion, insight ("I made a living exposing people's 7 deadly sins.) and understanding.

In regards to Reille Hunter's behavior, read the story of Lisa Jo Druck's strange relationship with a father, who made it his business to electrocute her favorite horse (and several others) to perpetuate insurance fraud. Fertile ground for the formation of instability.

Jay Retread said...

@Ann wrote "The evidence that Edwards is well endowed can be found here."

Good grief Ann. Linking to your own post as "evidence?" Thank god you are not a real lawyer. You would be disbarred by now.

chickelit said...

The evidence that Edwards is well endowed can be found here.

By the way, I voted for Edwards in the 2004 primary.


Erections have consequences.

Methadras said...

jr565 said...

Fen wrote:

f Elizabeth had callously used Wade's death as a prop to advance John's career, then yes, I would have less sympathy for her.

You're starting to catch on.


That is merely your interpretation of her actions based on your hatred of her. How do you know that she wasn't genuinely devastated by the death of her son. Screw you.
You can't see into her heart.


Who would hate the woman who lost her son. I certainly don't, but it isn't her heart that you need to look in, rather her actions after the fact that are under scrutiny. That is what is being discussed.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

No one cares about his love child if he's not running for office.

And for all his faults what Edwards did was not illegal. If it came out during his presidency that he had a mistress and had a love child it woudl be an embarrasment not a crime.


True. Fucking around on your wife, while pretending that you have picture perfect marriage, is not a crime.

What is a crime, using campaign money for personal perks, entertaining your mistress, paying your mistress and anything other than campaign money

And while it may not be a crime, it certainly isn't moral or part of being a honest person to get campaign money from people under false pretenses.

The people who donated to his campaign did so based on a person who was a lie and a family that was backing up the lies. The lies were for nothing more than personal gain and power.

It may not be a crime, but it certainly is a sin.

Same thing goes for Clinton. I don't care where he dips his wick. I DO care that the President of the United States thinks he is above the law and committs perjury.

madawaskan said...

Edwards got rich using his good looks and smooth talking to convince juries to hand over huge awards to suffering people who you don't remember. He used the death of his son and his wife's cancer to make himself appear more intensely empathetic to those unknown, unnamed poor people whom we were encouraged to express our concern for by voting for him.

It was all a shabby lie.


And you're the one that got conned into voting for him.

A good significant amount of Americans could tell what a phony he was on the spot.

Maybe because we've been around good people it was easy to spot the putz?

I think perhaps you've been surrounding yourself with putzes for most of your life.

That's what happens when you pursue the wrong things in life-law school.

Money.

Looks.

Edwards was "nice"?

Edwards was handsome?

Edwards gave me the gawd damn heeby jeebies.

But then the first job i had was picking potatos-without a harvester.

Then I worked in a frozen food plant-that wasn't union.

Then I washed dishes, then I bused tables, then I was a waitress at the same time that I was a janitor for the visiting team dorm.

That was just to get to college- and find out that my profs had very little real experience in life.

I probably learned more playing hockey and being on the swim team while at college.

Anyways don't hate Elizabeth who was almost just like you because you were so stupid about life-that you voted for Edwards.

You may have all kinds of paper that says you are brilliant but that brlliant is specialized in teaching or conning a bunch of kids out of their money -into wasting how many weeks teaching them frickin' Lochner-so that they can go out and be miserable lawyers surrounded by other miserable lawyers.

Just great.

jr565 said...

Who would hate the woman who lost her son. I certainly don't, but it isn't her heart that you need to look in, rather her actions after the fact that are under scrutiny. That is what is being discussed.


What specific actions, in relation to her son, and in specific are you condemning her for?

MamaM said...

I wonder if Rielle was looking for someone who was a bigger dick than her conniving and unscrupulous show-boat of a father?

John Druck specialized in defending insurance companies.

John Edwards acted as an attorney for people seeking damages against large institutions and insurance companies.

A curious contradiction that may not be as co-incidental or crazy as it seems.

In this context, size of dick/cock might appear significant.

jr565 said...

Dust Bunny queen wrote:
True. Fucking around on your wife, while pretending that you have picture perfect marriage, is not a crime.

What is a crime, using campaign money for personal perks, entertaining your mistress, paying your mistress and anything other than campaign money

Those are things you can level against John Edwards, though I'm not sure that he in fact did use campaign money for personal perks. But none of those are crime comitted by Elizabeth.Is it John Edwards dying of cancer? Did Elizabeth edwards hide her mistress from the public? No, so then aim your barbs where they are deserved. Edwards is a scum bo. His wife was a wronged party who happened to be married to a jerk. and who died of cancer.

And while it may not be a crime, it certainly isn't moral or part of being a honest person to get campaign money from people under false pretenses.

What false pretenses? You think candidates are as pure as they present themselves? even the ones you vote for? If you couldn't see that Edwards was a phony to begin with then you're the idiot. The guy was as oily as they come and you didn't need the enquirer digging up a sexual story to know it (if you remember the movie Rustlers Rhapsody, the evil oil baron brings in a rival gunman to deal with the good guy. And this rival gun man is even more good than the Good guy. When they first meet the new Good guy the main character asks him if he was a lawyer and he replies "I used to be, yeah", and the proceeds for 3/4 of the movie to be completly goody two shoes. At the very end the good guy is finally trusting the new good guy (sorry can't remember the names it's been a while) and the new good guy pulls out a gun and tries to kiil the main character (Tom Berenger). And Tom turns around and says "You're not a good guy at all!" and the bad guy (former good guy) replies "I was a lawyer you idiot!".
Well, John Edwards was a lawyer you idiot! Of course he was a sleazebo!

The people who donated to his campaign did so based on a person who was a lie and a family that was backing up the lies. The lies were for nothing more than personal gain and power.

It may not be a crime, but it certainly is a sin.
The problem with this is that while Edwards has public persona, he also has a private life. And people are not always the same in public as they are in private. Even MLK was having affairs. Does that negate MLK completely? Did MLK come out and say he was cheating on Coretta? Of course not. Is he therefore an ireedable fraud? Not to me.
As for whether the lies were solely for power and political gain, how are you determining this? Do you know the inner dynamics of their relationship? Maybe Elizabeth was ok with John having affairs because, due to her illness she was no longer capable of engaging in sex, and she was ok with him getting it from the floozy so long as he kept it quiet.

Ann Althouse said...

"Fen, Ann is the one spewing crap like EE getting "Big Cock". (I guess Ann is jealous because she only gets to suck on a little cock. See Ann, two can play the incivility game.)"

Only a man with a small cock would make that inference.

"So is that the example of "hatred" you'll hang your hat on?"

Oh, the image that put in my head. Maybe I can find a penis hat hook on Amazon to link to.

k*thy said...

Whatever. You lost me at "life will bring you to your knees".

Fen, it was about gratitude - for the life I have; for all that brought me here; for having been brought to my own knees and having the time and luck to get back up again. Being in my own shoes and not hers. EE made her decision while sick with a terminal disease. I don’t pretend to know why she did what she did – denial? bargaining? turning it over to the fates? Had he ended up winning, I might think differently, but he didn’t. We have long, drawn out primaries for a reason. It’s my view that the system worked, in this case.

Jay Retread said...

Ann, maybe you can get an Althouse Hillbilly to buy you a big fat penis hat hook on Amazon for you?

Also, how do you know I have a penis?

Signed,

Janelle

Ann Althouse said...

"Also, how do you know I have a penis?"

I have a magnifying glass.

Ann Althouse said...

Blech. My joke wasn't worth the image of going anywhere near that thing.

Jay Retread said...

Ann, you are the second coming of Dorthy Parker! I feel like I am sitting at the Algonquin Round table when I read your blog and your witticisms! Not kidding. Serious...

Jay Retread said...

Ann, do another post about how big JE's cock is.

Jay Retread said...

Ann,

A couple of years ago you use to have some smart, thoughtful conservative commenters. What happen to them? Now you are just left with the dregs like Fen.

I would like to take credit for running them off, but really the credit goes to you. Your tossing of the red meat to get a Pavlovian response from your rabid conservative Althouse Hillbillies just became to predictable.

But I guess the smart, thoughtful conservatives did not worship you enough and I would guess they do not buy toasters on Amazon for you. Right?

Plus you're intellectually lazy and the Hillbillies are easily fooled.

MamaM said...

Edwards spent considerable energy, time and talent holding hospitals and corporations accountable for their actions. After fifteen years as a plaintiff's lawyer, demanding others pay for their misdeeds and indiscretions, he covered over his own with the co-operation of his wife. Even with Elizabeth aware of his philandering, there were two years of mutual covering that took place before he would confess to being the father of Frances Quinn Hunter.

How much compassion have the oh-so-compassionate commenters here expressed for the bastard daughter of a "crazy" women, whose philandering father colluded with his wife to leave unacknowledged out of fear he and his wife's political plans would not be realized?

Someone got screwed and it wasn't just Reille or the long-suffering wife. Francis Quinn Hunter, half sister to Cate, Emma Claire, Jack and the deceased Wade Edwards, got the short end of a crooked political and paternal stick.

When it comes to doling out sympathy and compassion, I've got a scoop for her, along with the rest of Edward's children, the "crazy" lover, and a philandering man who with the help of his now dead wife almost deceived a daugther and a nation.

MamaM said...

Try this on for size:
Maybe if the Big Cock hadn't been so big, none of this would be an issue.

So really/Reille, where did the trouble start?

Maybe it all circles back to The Big You Know What that belongs to John Edwards.

Wouldn't that be weird? All the muttering and name calling that resulted from an Althouse mention of this, and it turns out to be the One Big Thing responsible for begetting a world of trouble along with the blessing of life.

Cedarford said...

Tradguys Palinesque love of female authority figures now extends to departed, but Sainted, EE.

"Professor Althouse spotted that EE was always the brains behind this duo."

Well, it was John Edwards making the big bucks and Elizabeth the Sainted, plodding along behind with a middling lawyer career and serving as JE's brainy "campaign lackey".

There is a species of man that invariably thinks the wife is the brains behind any successful man. A lot appear to be modest income conservative men convinced they would be better off if only their own wives were smarter and mentored their careers better.

MadisonMan said...

I have a magnifying glass.

In the dorms we always said tweezers and an electron microscope

c3 said...

Fen;
If you don't want the mythbuster, don't bring the myth.

And the "myth" I brought was ....

Professor;
I don't what it was about Elizabeth Edwards life or death but it sure has struck a chord....

embarrassing

(I'm sure you've frozen some of those delicious morels from the summer. I suggest frying them up, maybe a glass of wine, fireplace....well you can fill in the rest.)

J. Alexander said...

Hey Professor, After you die from a long, painful battle with cancer (or, more likely, cirrhosis of the liver) I shall remember to "meh" and badmouth you. Unless you have fallen to your knees and begged forgiveness for all the mendacious garbage that has spewed from your mind, then I might spare a thought for those your passing has hurt, like the box wine producers of America.

Just Lurking said...

If you want to cry for the pain human beings have suffered, begin somewhere else.

It doesn't matter to me whether people feel sympathy for Mrs. Edwards or not. But I think the notion that people should try to channel any sympathy they may have for a woman who just died of cancer, to someone more deserving, is somewhat... odd?

Leaving aside the contentiousness of defining who is more worthy of our sympathies, for me sympathy is either there or it is not. I have found myself shocked that I could have sympathy for someone who I didn't even like. I can't seem to turn on or off sympathy like there was a switch. (However, if I could, I think I would question my sincerity.)

traditionalguy said...

C-4...I have no love for female authority exercised as EE did over Johnny. She acted out the higher class southern Lady and Johnny was just a great communicator who sold his servicies to all comers as lawyers must learn to do. EE kept him aware of her superior status and that she knew all about his low class secret side. That was what Rielle tapped into...Johnny's need to be given credit for what he could actually do. As to our disputes on Sarah Palin over the past year, that is about a lady who has earned and learned use of legitimate authority, in contrast to EE's illegitimate authority she used over her husband

The Crack Emcee said...

I'm putting this here because you said to:

I'm not a New Ager. I can't stand New Age stuff. Your anti-New Age stuff is almost cult-like, Crack. I can say things about gender and culture without it being anything like religion. Do you really think you are looking at things in a clear and undistorted way? The fact is, Elizabeth Edwards was in a power-seeking alliance with a sleazeball who put his own desires ahead of ours, and she and he used her cancer as a tool to manipulate minds. I don't think that is right, and though it's sad that anyone has to die, I'm not sentimental about it. If I was willing to speak in your terms I would say that sentimentality about death and making saints out of cancer victims is a New Age phenomenon.

Ann, you trying to convince me you're not a NewAger is like me trying to convince you I'm an expert on torts - it's absurd. This is my subject, and I can spot a NewAger from a mile away. Even your arguments against it are the same tired ones every NewAge scholar encounters - here's Chris Locke AKA "Rageboy" - one of the best:

"She always protested that she was not New Age. You've heard that one before, for sure. 'Who me? Oh, I'm not New Age!' We've all heard it. Only terminal cases ever admit to the proclivity. Maybe the last gasp of those people who recently died in James Arthur Ray's Sedona sweat lodge was 'Oh fuck, I guess I am New Age!' But of course, we'll never know if, even then, the denial was finally overcome. When you get right down to it, nobody wants to be seen as New Age because nobody wants to be seen as irreparably stupid."

Now how did he know that? You also go for the I'm-not-newAge-you-are gambit, which, again, is absurd because everyone here knows I fight against it.

Why don't you just admit you don't understand what it is? I mean, listen to yourself:

I can say things about gender and culture without it being anything like religion.

Why mention anything about religion in a discussion of NewAge? NewAgers are "spiritual but not religious" - so what are you thinking? Do you seriously think that, like Jefferson chopping all the mysticism out of the bible, that means you've escaped the ideology? No - it just means you don't go for it's most outrageous aspects - but all NewAgers pick and chose what aspects they'll adhere to. Some are in for homeopathy and native American beliefs. Some do yoga, eat vegetarian, and meditate. Few are like my ex and do it all.

That's what makes me different from most NewAge scholars - I understand the whole thing - every aspect of it. If you understood that, you'd respect me more because taking in the complexity of the entire belief is beyond the understanding of even the best of them. I'm not someone who's merely studying NewAge, I've lived it - or, rather, lived with it - so my perspective is deeper than almost anyone else talking about it on the web.

And you're a NewAger.

If you were truly smart, you'd enquire as to what makes you a NewAger, rather than merely denying it with a bunch of lame defenses.

The Crack Emcee said...

Treacle,

she got a shitty, raw deal: a dead kid, a philandering husband, a surprise love-child from her philandering husband and terminal cancer with young kids. given that deal, who can blame her for making the choices she made? and if she seemed bitchy on the campaign trail, well, under the circumstances . . .

That's why I lost it yesterday. Ann's comments hit me like a gangbanger waving a gun at a funeral. Her lack of humanity - fuck being sentimental - was revealed, and that, also, is a NewAge trait:

Being downright fucking evil, without conscience, while elevating themselves as superior somehow.

Elizabeth Edwards is a tragic figure, and her death is a sad event, no matter how anyone tries to spin it.

The Crack Emcee said...

Meade,

The truth is John and Elizabeth Edwards thought they could get away with it. They're lawyers. Spinning is their forte. But it all spun out of their control.

Spoken like the (second) husband of a lawyer.

Keep spinning, y';all.

The Crack Emcee said...

c3,

Professor;

I don't get the haterade for Elizabeth Edwards.

Is this some women and/or neo-feminist thing?


Yes, and, dude, it's NewAge to it's core.

The Crack Emcee said...

Fen,

You claim she was motivated to save a family that was already destroyed.

Says you. And how do you know this? he was there when she died - what was "over"?

You and Ann, both, have revealed nothing but your cynicism, which is toxic.

The Crack Emcee said...

HDHouse,

As to Ann's "power-seeking deception"...best advice, you have dug in that whole for now three threads and you are finding no treasure. perhaps it is best to stop digging.

Oh come on, NewAgers never give in - they never apologize and never admit fault. They are damage machines, sold on their righteousness. Think about it:

Ever heard Rhonda Byrne say The Secret was bogus? Ever heard Oprah really admit regret? Ever heard Shirley MacLaine say there are no space ships?

It just doesn't happen.

The Crack Emcee said...

DBQ,

Would you hit your family's self-destruct button on a national stage?

I would.

The kids will get over it and I would die happy knowing that I had destroyed the evil, self serving bastard and saved the public from him.


You know no such thing. If you saw me during the early stages of my marriages destruction - knowing my wife was sleeping with the "guru" who killed her mother - you'd think you'd never had an encounter with The Crack Emcee. I was torn in a billion different directions at once. Emotions roiled through me in uncontrollable waves - love, rage, confusion, self-destruction, concern for my wife, and on and on.

I guarantee you, you have no idea what you'd do.

The Crack Emcee said...

Ann,

She had a life that was surely in the top 10% or better of human lives lived. If you want to cry for the pain human beings have suffered, begin somewhere else.

Thanks for that particular lecture. God, I'm picturing a hole in your soul (for lack of a better term) the size of the Atlantic.

The Crack Emcee said...

DBQ,

I'm with Althouse.

If you want to feel sorry for a woman going through a terrible time, there are many more deserving that Elizabeth Edwards, many of whom probably live very close to YOU. People YOU can do something about. People who are right now having terrible difficulties. People YOU can help.

Why aren't you?


Jesus, DBQ, stop. All of you know a bit of my circumstances and how many have donated to me - even after I asked? As far as I know, one.

You guys are really going over the deep end to be shits, here.

The Crack Emcee said...

Ann,

Instead of writing comments here about how cold-hearted I am, why don't you go to the hospital, nursing home, or prison and shower love on some suffering person who doesn't have a visitor today?

Bwwaaaaa-haha-haha-haha!

Stop it, you're killing me! You're now telling funnier jokes than Trooper York! Jesus, you people know no bottom!

The Crack Emcee said...

DBQ,

Treacle: you are pathetic.

He is not. He's a thinking, feeling human being. What you're becoming is the question.

The Crack Emcee said...

JR565,

Ann probably has a better life than a lot of people out there. SHe has her own blog and is a law professor.

And, let's not forget, she parades her vacations, and houses, and skiing, and whatever in front of us - including my broke black ass - and then asks us to give her money through the Amazon box.

This is really becoming sick. And you guys wonder how I got to be so angry. like I said on the other thread, angry beats evil any day.

The Crack Emcee said...

chuck b,

Elizabeth Edwards was diagnosed the month I finished chemo. Our paths crossed at numerous events while her husband was campaigning and one rainy night, low turnout, we wound up in a corner at some gallery in Chelsea, knocking back white wine and yakking about the trauma of losing your hair. Her husband approached and she leaned in to me and said, "Thank god his hair's not in peril," dry as toast. I am so so sad that she's gone, but so so happy that I am still here. Thank you Elizabeth, for the laugh.

My word, what a horrible woman.

TheDopeFromHope said...

Now that EE is out of the picture, how many months until that dirtbag Johnny marries the chippie Rielle Hunter? I'm setting the over/under at 8 months.

The Crack Emcee said...

HDHouse,

Recent postings are reminders of those folks stand outside graveyards during the burials of gays and scream at their families and mourners. To what end? To what purpose?

These threads are in extremely poor taste and fairly disturbing expressions of some Krell-like demon floating around.


Exactly. And isn't it amazing, as I discovered during my ordeal, how a death can just explode on the living, causing all kinds of mayhem no one would ever suspect? I swear, this is like the results of my mother-in-law's death, and the divorce that followed, in microcosm, with me standing there, with my mouth hanging open, saying, "What-in-the-Hell-is-happening-here?"

It's devastating.

Fen said...

"You claim she was motivated to save a family that was already destroyed."

Crack: Says you.

Uh no. Says Treacle at 9:12AM. Try reading the thread before you start lashing out again.

BTW, your little tantrum last night made NO sense.

You and Ann, both, have revealed nothing but your cynicism, which is toxic.

...and you've gone all emotional again.

her death is a sad event, no matter how anyone tries to spin it.

Who the hell is spinning it as anything other than sad? Grow up.

Fen said...

Crack: Exactly. And isn't it amazing, as I discovered during my ordeal -

My bad. As usual, its all about you.

No wonder you're reacting like a little bitch.

The Crack Emcee said...

Fen,

Awwww. You think and you cry. How noble of you... Do you also "believe" in World Peace?

Dude, you are one ugly piece of work.

Darcy said...

You've spent two days heaping hot coals on a dying and now dead woman, Fen. You. That's who.

Fen said...

Dude, learn the diff between "thinking" and "feeling" VS "doing something"

For someone who's so anti-NewAger, you sure do swallow the "i feel your pain" and "visualize swirled peas" bullshit.

Fen said...

Darcy: You've spent two days heaping hot coals on a dying and now dead woman, Fen.

And you've spent two days lusting over John Edwards, praying his wife would die so he could be free.

See how easy it is to assert without proof?

Provide evidence. Or shut the fuck up.

The Crack Emcee said...

Roger J.,

What a thoroughly disgusting thread--and you, professor, promulgated it. You were also the fool that voted for hope and change but you accuse the Edwards of promulgating a lie. You bit on one lie and are now upset that the other lie is out there. Spare me your sanctimony and analysis.
You were a bigger fool than the B oth rubes that voted for Edwards. Both Edwards (John and Elizabeth) were liars--but so was Mr Obama--you just chose the wrong liar.


Agreed, agreed, agreed.

But not only that, Ann used her influence, through this blog, to coax others to vote for the zero as well - what was difference between her and Elizabeth again? Oh yea:

Elizabeth's dead body can now be kicked around for it.

Disgusting.

The Crack Emcee said...

vza,

"She had a nice, handsome husband with a big cock who was greatly admired and brought her great admiration and wealth."

Good grief.


Don't put anything past NewAgers advocating for gay rights. Shit, a gay guy once hit me up in a funeral line!

Fen said...

C'mon Darcy, show me. A handful of Libtards here keep whining about how hateful our comments re Elizabeth are, but every single one of them has passed on my challenge to cite an offending comment.

Of course, it doesn't help that half of you don't even comprehend what whats being said. Hell, Crack's so emotional that he can't even keep his attribs right.

The Crack Emcee said...

madawaskan,

You're the one that got conned into voting for him.

A good significant amount of Americans could tell what a phony he was on the spot.


Yet these fools are here trying to sell us on their interpretation of what's what now - incredible, isn't it? They can't see how skewed their outlook is, when the evidence they're blind to the stupidity of their own actions and beliefs are all around them.

Un-fucking-believable.

The Crack Emcee said...

Ann,

"Fen, Ann is the one spewing crap like EE getting "Big Cock". (I guess Ann is jealous because she only gets to suck on a little cock. See Ann, two can play the incivility game.)"

Only a man with a small cock would make that inference.


Fuck that, I'm making it and I'm hung like a horse!

Fen said...

What a thoroughly disgusting thread--

Why? Because someone of us aren't showing what you deem is the proper level of sympathy? For a woman who already used that sympathy once to manipulate PR for her husband?

Not drinking the Kool-Aid.

Fen said...

But it looks like Crack is ready to convert...

Fen said...

Crack: They can't see how skewed their outlook is, when the evidence they're blind to the stupidity of their own actions and beliefs are all around them.

Irony meter to 11.

The Crack Emcee said...

Like I said, Fen, one ugly piece of work.

That's all you get out of me - you're not worth it.

Fen said...

Crack: That's all you get out of me - you're not worth it.

Thats prob good, considering that you attack me for what someone else said. Even after 24 hours, you're still unhinged.

Have fun playing with all your little strawmen.

Republican said...

In a few years, EE will be a distant memory and The Big Cock will be swinging for the Presidency again.

His infidelity and failed marriage can be played off however he likes. It's not like the ex is going to disagree.

If anything, she went to her death setting the infidel up for another run, by choosing not to turn on him.

What a career politician she was.

HDHouse said...

Fen said...
"Why? Because someone of us aren't showing what you deem is the proper level of sympathy?"

don't give death a thought Fen. when you go you'll get a chance to rejoice with any number of folks ready to dance on your grave.

in case you run out of definitions for evil,....well look therein.

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