December 16, 2010

"I received a phone call anonymously that my daughter was involved with a guy 40 years older than her."

"You said you couldn't stop him - so I did."

A statement to the police by the father of a 17-year-old girl who saw it as his "duty as a father" to wield a bread knife, strategically.

74 comments:

donttread2010 said...

The mind races - I could suggest that certain individuals might deserve the same treatment. Question: was this man's decision correct? If it were my daughter, I might have chosen the 'Bobbitt' route. Just saying.

AllenS said...

May I suggest Neuticles.

Scott M said...

As a father of too young daughters, my takeaway from this article is that I suppose the lesson is...wait, what was wrong with that again?

Scott M said...

That's "two" btw...ugh

Scott M said...

Although, I suppose, "too" works on at least one level :)

traditionalguy said...

That also sounds like a Tea party father who learns what 57 senators have been doing to his country and is told that nothing can be done about it. The morning of Nov. 3rd Feingold, Burns, Specter, and Bennett awoke as eunuchs although they are still going after his daughter. When will the next election be held?

Marshal said...

"was this man's decision correct?"

I have a hard time understanding how it could be, but at the very least you'd have to know vastly more about the circumstances. The article includes no information about the relationship. The only possible justification would be if there were coercion, but there are no reported facts to support that.

bagoh20 said...

That's what pissed-off looks like. Hope he got the right guy, but even if not, I suppose his love will keep all men away from his daughter for some time to come.

Sixty Grit said...

Ethnic German, eh? Interesting..., but stupid...

WV: fecut - you cannot be serious!

k*thy said...

I understand the urge to take some kind of action, but...I'm not seeing how this helped - the daughter is still 17, with lots of fish in the sea, and now a dad, in prison.

TWM said...

Stupid. If you're gonna de-nut someone at least do it with a mask and gloves so you don't get your ass caught.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

What is "an ethnic German originally from Russia" mean? Are they being politicially correct here in some way???

It seems to me that there could have been a lot of other remedies to the situation (stopping the relationship) than castration.

Horrible.

On the other hand. I'm with Kathy. When the overbearing father goes to prison, she is now free to screw anyone she wants. Free at last...free at last.

peter hoh said...

DBQ, in the 18th and 19th centuries, there were several waves of German emigration to Russia. Some of the descendants of these people have moved back to Germany. This man is one of them.

No political correctness involved.

Scott M said...

No political correctness involved.

Then why mention it at all? It's like a report of a traffic fatality where the makes/models of the vehicles have zero to do with the story, but if one is an SUV, it is mentioned.

edutcher said...

The unkindest cut of all.

(couldn't resist...)

PS I like tg's idea about Senators, but what do you do to the Weird Sisters From Maine?

peter hoh said...

I don't know if the story was written by the Telegraph or transcribed from a German paper, but I don't think it much matters.

Is it all that unusual for someone's immigration status to be mentioned in a news story? Seems rather routine, to me.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Is it all that unusual for someone's immigration status to be mentioned in a news story? Seems rather routine, to me.

I think it very unusual, in this country at least, to mention immigration status unless the report is trying imply something or to slant the story in someway.

You would never see "ethnic American" since American is not an ethnicity. Ethnic German just seems strange to me since to me Germany is a political construct comprised of many ethnicities, just like American is comprised of many ethnicities.

I just wondered what they were implying.

madAsHell said...

40 years difference??
This wasn't about love. She was doin' it for dollars!

Anonymous phone call?
Somebody else thought he was over-paying the young girl!

madAsHell said...

....and does the 17 year old have a habit??

w/v: papho - A ho for pappy!

peter hoh said...

DBQ, I see immigration status reported all the time in the news in this country. It's a fairly neutral thing.

You're reading "ethnic German" as if you were reading a term made up by a writer in the U.S. I don't know the German term, which may be clearer than "ethnic," which seems to me to be a rather fuzzy term.

The history of Germans in Russia certainly reinforced the idea that there was a German cultural identity that existed beyond national boundaries. Perhaps this is due to how they were treated by the Russians. Initially, they enjoyed many privileges and were permitted to retain their language and German cultural institutions (schools and churches, among others).

These Russian Germans regard themselves as Germans, culturally, even when they moved from Russia to the U.S., Canada, and South America.

jr565 said...

16 will get you 20. But 17? Isn't that legal? So if the daughter likes to date old dudes what business is it of her dads?
And to chop off a guys balls? What is he the Taliban? This guy should be in jail.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

These Russian Germans regard themselves as Germans, culturally, even when they moved from Russia to the U.S., Canada, and South America.

I see. Thank you.

Similar to my relatives who are from Argentina (for several generations) who consider themselves Italian.

MarkW said...

It was a horrific act of sexual aggression committed by a sick bastard. The father should be put away for a long time. He didn't do it 'for' his daughter, he did it for his own sense of wounded honor. Instead of protecting her, he traumatized her (even if she didn't care about the guy and especially if she did) and he deprived her of a father who will now spend years in prison (although depriving her of his own company may be the only positive in this situation).

Flip the sex roles and see how it feels. Middle aged woman sleeping with 17-year-old boy, so boy's mom attacks woman and cuts off her nipples or clitoris. How is it that prison rape and sexual mutilation of men remains funny?

Class factotum said...

Is it all that unusual for someone's immigration status to be mentioned in a news story? Seems rather routine, to me.

If an alleged criminal in the US is an illegal alien, it seems to be not worthy of reporting.

Scott M said...

How is it that prison rape and sexual mutilation of men remains funny?

I'm pretty sure it's in the same book o' comedy that says white, Christian southerns can be made fun of in any way, shape, form, or situation without offending anyone.

Marshal said...

"What is "an ethnic German originally from Russia" mean? Are they being politicially correct here in some way???"

It does seem they are eliminating speculation that this was an "honor mutilation" by a muslim father.

traditionalguy said...

Edutcher...You reminded me of the joke about the Weird sister who got a colostomy, and when the Doctor went in to sew up the hole, he sewed up the wrong hole. After that she made her money on the side. The Maine sisters Senatorial scam makes its money on the side already, so that surgery would not help.

Ralph L said...

She already had "daddy issues," but she just got a double dose.

A morning radio show that featured news of the weird claimed it was always Germans or in Florida doing the strangest stuff.

He could also be the son of a German POW.

Clyde said...

Maybe he should have just whacked the dirty old man in the berries a few times with a Kackel Dackel, just to make his point. Then he'd just be looking at a battery beef rather than attempted murder. Of course, then the old perv's wedding tackle would still be functional.

peter hoh said...

And here I thought that using violent sexual imagery against women was something exclusive to the left.

former law student said...

I know communicating with 17 year old daughters is difficult, but sheesh -- that's where you have to start, not go right to the castration knife.

Germans have done so many crazy things -- who can forget the guy who advertised for a healthy young man to slaughter -- that I think the paper is trying to distance this crazy ex-Soviet from nice, good, normal, non-castrating Germans.

Chef Mojo said...

The girl is lucky she didn't come from a Muslim family. Daddy's ire would probably have been directed elsewhere.

John Burgess said...

Age of consent in Germany is 14... or 16, depending. In any event, she was clearly old enough to make the decision. Her father's actions, on the other hand, don't leave much doubt about their criminality.

Ann Althouse said...

Wikipedia: "The age of consent in Germany is 14, as long as a person over the age of 21 does not exploit a 14–15 year-old person's lack of capacity for sexual self-determination. In this rare and special case, a conviction on an individual over the age of 21 requires a complaint from the younger individual; being over 21 and engaging in sexual relations with a minor of that age does not constitute an offense in and of itself. Otherwise the age of consent is 14, although provisions protecting minors against coercion apply until the age of 18."

The statutory text is at the link. You can see why the police couldn't do anything. It wasn't a crime. The man is apparently guilty of attempted murder. He should have directed his anger at the legislature.

The phrase "lack of capacity for sexual self-determination" is in the statute. It looks like the Germans are interested in "sexual self-determination" for teenagers that we Americans are committed to keeping from having sex at all.

jimspice said...

What about the picture? Why would you castrate someone with a bread knife? Looks like a Henckels. Nice knife.

Revenant said...

Even if vigilante castration was acceptable, I doubt the harm involved in boinking a 57 year old is worse than the harm involved in having your father go to prison.

The girl's still going to have poor judgment and a boatload of issues, but now she won't even have a father around to help guide her.

Methadras said...

Give the guy a fucking medal. Should have turned him into a nullo instead.

Methadras said...

k*thy said...

I understand the urge to take some kind of action, but...I'm not seeing how this helped - the daughter is still 17, with lots of fish in the sea, and now a dad, in prison.


That's because you are thinking with your cunt. As a father I think that my 17 year old daughter is being seduced by a lecherous piece of shit. That's one less fish in the sea and I assure you that many germans would approve of what he did. It may not be legal, but it was certainly down the road of correct.

wv = reversa = something the 'victim' will never be able to do.

Methadras said...

I'm surprised that the dad didn't go over to the other guys house and give him the kakel dakel to play with.

jr565 said...

The castrated older gent should pay someone in prison to castrate the father. See how he likes it.

jr565 said...

Methadras wrote:
That's because you are thinking with your cunt. As a father I think that my 17 year old daughter is being seduced by a lecherous piece of shit

Your 17 year old daughter is of age. At a certain point you have to let go and let her be a woman.
Also, it's kind of funny that you think Michael Vick should be in jail for abusing dogs, but that this guy did the right thing in castrating a man for dating someone (and not apparently forcing her to have sex).
Now if it was your 5 year old daughter, I could certainly see the response, but a 17 year old?

MadisonMan said...

Nice knife.

So glad they cleaned it.

Marshal said...

"As a father I think that my 17 year old daughter is being seduced by a lecherous piece of shit."

Don't you think it responsible to actually determine the circumstances before asserting that what ocurred justified castration?

Sigivald said...

DustBunny: Remember, foreigners aren't just Americans with funny words and different flags.

Just because it has political meaning in the US (sometimes), doesn't mean it has any in Germany, which is presumably where the reports originate.

OnTheMainPost: What MarkW said - plus remember that in Germany a 17 year old has been able to drink and have sex with anyone they like for a year (at least as I understand German law on such things).

Presumably nobody would be siding with the father on this one if he'd castrated a 20 year old for seeing his daughter, correct?

How about a 25 year old?

30?

When does it become righteous rather than depraved to do that, given that she was evidently a completely willing participant?

And, really, won't this action by her father damage her an order of magnitude more than anything the older man could have done (short of a criminal act on his part, that is)?

I'm totally on the "honor crime" side rather than "protecting her" side, so far.

Revenant said...

That's because you are thinking with your cunt.

Classy.

dreams said...

Some sick people out there and I'm talking about the dad.

Freeman Hunt said...

I endorse being tough on sexually predatory adults, but I don't endorse sadism. This was sadism.

Scott M said...

I endorse being tough on sexually predatory adults, but I don't endorse sadism. This was sadism.

Only if he enjoyed cutting off said balls.

Freeman Hunt said...

He did it with a bread knife while the guy was awake. I'd say that's pretty sadistic. Also, he did this rather than, for example, simply beating the guy up. Not that people should go around beating other people up, but it says something when a guy skips straight over to castration.

kent said...

""I received a phone call anonymously that my daughter was involved with a guy 40 years older than her.""

"All I could think about, at that moment, was: how in God's name did my kid ever manage to get herself with Scott Ritter, f'chrissakes...?!?"

EDH said...

I also want your balls.

"I'm really quite attached to them."

Synova said...

The story didn't contain any details of the "relationship" that I noticed other than the age difference. Yes, I put "relationship" in quotes on purpose. I find it hard to imagine a way in 2010 in any Western country no matter how sexually permissive that a teenager having sex with someone that much older and more powerful is likely to be anything other than predatory.

The "relationship" was a secret. Now, maybe that's because the Dad is a violent hot-head and everyone knew it, maybe it's because the "relationship" would not find approval in the culture despite the legality, and maybe it's because it was absolutely a predatory relationship. So it was a secret, like any sex crime usually is a secret.

And Dad found out.

The call was anonymous. Why? And who? Who would want to protect themselves that way? Who would *need* to protect themselves that way? Why not just openly relay this information?

One possibility is a vendetta against the fellow and the use of a lie to get at him. There was no suggestion in the article that the man was *not* doing what he was accused of. Another possibility is that the person who told this secret would face retaliation.

Now Dad, the violent hot-head, did not actually go straight to "castration". He went straight to the police.

He went to the police. This is a civilized and reasonable thing to do. The police would not help. Men in their late 50's should not be having secret sexual affairs with teen aged girls. More, no father should be comfortable about it, not in any culture.

That doesn't excuse castration, (I agree that beating him up might have been more appropriate), but I don't see how it's necessarily attempted murder anyhow. It seems more like attempted (and successful) castration.

And I can't help but think, just a little bit, that the example might lead some men to behave a bit more honorably within "relationships."

dbp said...

I wonder if there is some sort of connection between being a man who raised a daughter that likes a man 40 years older than her.

And being the kind of man who would skip yelling, threatening and beating and jump right to castration as the solution to this problem.

Or maybe these two unusual things are quite random and unrelated.

Synova said...

But he didn't skip everything else.

He went to the police.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Men in their late 50's should not be having secret sexual affairs with teen aged girls.

Yeah. Tell that to Woody Allen

Famous Original Mike said...

This is about as funny as gang rape.

dbp said...

Synova, yes he did go to the police. But then he went right from there to castration without all the intermediate steps I listed.

holdfast said...

Taking a couple of his big buddies over for a threatening conversation would seem to be appropriate. Maybe a little Hank Aaron medley if he didn't back off after the warning.

Going straight for another dude's junk? Not so much.

jaed said...

For once I find myself completely disagreeing with Synova. Unusual.

I find it completely plausible that a young woman might be having a consensual sexual relationship with a man many years older. Possible, certainly, that it was coerced, but that wouldn't be my starting assumption in the absence of any indication.

Also, the father went to the police. What exactly are the police supposed to do about it? There was no crime being committed (unless see above about coercion, and I assume the police would have taken it seriously if that had been what was going on). You can't just go to the police and say "My daughter is in a sexual or romantic relationship I disapprove of! Stop it! Lock her and/or him up!!!" Under the circumstances, the fact that he went to the police over the non-crime before mutilating someone over the non-crime is not extenuating. At all.

Finally, most commenters don't seem to be thinking about the effect on the daughter. The effect on the criminal is clear: he'll most likely be spending time in prison. The effect on the victim is also clear: he has been mutilated for life.

What about the daughter? What does it do to her life and her future, to carry the knowledge that because of her, her first lover was sexually mutilated? Certainly we can expect this to affect her future relationships, if any. What about her current relationship? If it is a serious one, it's either ended or it's been badly damaged on several levels. Even if it's not a serious relationship, I would have screaming nightmares for the rest of my life, personally, and perhaps she will as well.

The whole thing is a horror.

sydney said...

Heloise and Abelard

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heloïse_(abbess)

Methadras said...

jr565 said...

Your 17 year old daughter is of age. At a certain point you have to let go and let her be a woman.


Sure, with a 57 year old man. That's real clear thinking you have there. My daughter is 21, if she had a secret relationship with a 57 year old man, I'd ask her what the fuck she thinks she's doing. Then I'd pay him a visit too. I wouldn't cut off his balls, but we would have a nice, long chat that doesn't require him to do any talking.

Also, it's kind of funny that you think Michael Vick should be in jail for abusing dogs, but that this guy did the right thing in castrating a man for dating someone (and not apparently forcing her to have sex).

See, now you are just being an idiot and a liar again. What is really funny is watching how stupid you are on here. Vick already went to prison for his complicity in torturing and killing dogs to forcibly do his bidding in pit fighting. This man who neutered his 17 year old daughters predator is also going to go prison, but the difference between what this man did vs. what Vick did are not comparable in any way. Vick and his cohorts tortured and killed dogs who didn't have a say so in their activities. This guy took the law into his own hands and solved what he thought was a serious problem. He's going to pay the price for his actions and I fully condone what he did. Bravo to him.

Now if it was your 5 year old daughter, I could certainly see the response, but a 17 year old?

Think about it, idiot. A 17 year old girl secretly dating a 57 year old man. Hmmm... Geez, I don't know.

Methadras said...

Marshal said...

Don't you think it responsible to actually determine the circumstances before asserting that what ocurred justified castration?


Since the article didn't articulate said responsibility to determine the nature of this relationship, then with the information presented, I can only conclude a few things from it based on the circumstances before me. For me, there is no rational basis for a 57 year old man to seek any sort of sexual relationship with a 17 year old. Unless of course you are one to go on the Asian tours.

Methadras said...

Revenant said...

That's because you are thinking with your cunt.

Classy.


I can be a Philistine at times.

Methadras said...

Freeman Hunt said...

I endorse being tough on sexually predatory adults, but I don't endorse sadism. This was sadism.


Actually there are groups of men who seek to become Nullo. Look it up. They are clearly Sado-Masochists, but willing participants.

Methadras said...

Freeman Hunt said...

He did it with a bread knife while the guy was awake. I'd say that's pretty sadistic. Also, he did this rather than, for example, simply beating the guy up. Not that people should go around beating other people up, but it says something when a guy skips straight over to castration.


Yeah, that's fairly brutal to use a bread knife. I think he skipped straight to castration because he probably wanted to make sure that he never dated underaged girls again.

William said...

If my daughter started dating fifty seven year old men, I would look first to correcting my parenting skills.....There's more to this story. The father is too jealous; the daughter is too attracted to an icky older man.

Synova said...

I've been a 17 year old girl.

"Needs a Daddy figure" is only one possible reason and if it actually is the reason then the relationship is *still* predatory because while the girl may have been warped by bad parenting and a bad father, the older man isn't compelled to take advantage of that. If the girl had a bad childhood it only makes it *worse*, not better.

A secret affair in a culture where people will look askance but not too much as it's completely legal and supposedly acceptable makes me wonder what it was about this one that wasn't acceptable.

And parents blame themselves quite enough for what their children do as teenagers.

I don't imagine I'd have ever taken up with a very old man when I was 17, but I was never paid attention to by an older gentleman either. While I can't seem myself being tempted by that, I can see how someone might, particularly if the older gentleman understands how to manipulate, make you feel all grown up and sophisticated and stuff like that.

jr565 said...

Methadras wrote:

Sure, with a 57 year old man. That's real clear thinking you have there. My daughter is 21, if she had a secret relationship with a 57 year old man, I'd ask her what the fuck she thinks she's doing. Then I'd pay him a visit too. I wouldn't cut off his balls, but we would have a nice, long chat that doesn't require him to do any talking.

If your daughter wasn't raped, and likes to date older gents, frankly its not your business. She's 21. That's long past the age of consent. She can join the marines she can drink beer she can get a license. If she wants to date old fogeys more power to her.



Vick already went to prison for his complicity in torturing and killing dogs to forcibly do his bidding in pit fighting. This man who neutered his 17 year old daughters predator is also going to go prison, but the difference between what this man did vs. what Vick did are not comparable in any way. Vick and his cohorts tortured and killed dogs who didn't have a say so in their activities. This guy took the law into his own hands and solved what he thought was a serious problem. He's going to pay the price for his actions and I fully condone what he did. Bravo to him.


Um, do you think the guy getting castrated had a choice in the matter? Do you think he said "Sure, take my balls with a bread knife"? what are you babbling about. Chopping off someones balls is torture, so this dad tortured and maimed a guy who for all intents had consensual sex with his of age daugter.


Think about it, idiot. A 17 year old girl secretly dating a 57 year old man. Hmmm... Geez, I don't know.


Exactly. You don't know. Did the daugther claim rape or lack of consent? Then, not knowing what right did the father have to castrate this guy? At what age would you not find dating a young girl a castratable offense. If the guy is 35 and the woman is 17? If the woman is 21 and the guy is 40? I can see why she kept it a secret from her dad. She probably expected a reaction like the one he had, namely that he'd chop off her boyfriends balls.

jr565 said...

Methadras wrote:
I think he skipped straight to castration because he probably wanted to make sure that he never dated underaged girls again.

Or of age girls either. Because the girl was of age.

Marshal said...

Methadras,

"then with the information presented, I can only conclude a few things from it based on the circumstances before me."

Actually, you don't have to conclude anything. Conclusions based on guesses about the facts are meaningless.

"For me, there is no rational basis for a 57 year old man to seek any sort of sexual relationship with a 17 year old."

Things exist beyond your experience. Just because you can't think of a circumstance doesn't mean one doesn't exist. Think Shirley Sherrod.

Class factotum said...

I don't imagine I'd have ever taken up with a very old man when I was 17, but I was never paid attention to by an older gentleman either.

"Gentleman" is not really the appropriate word here, unless you mean the police definition of "scum who has been charged with a crime."

Pastafarian said...

This is a horrific story, but as a father of two young girls, I'm not sure what I would do in such a situation.

Castration? Probably not. Like another commenter, the first thing I think of with respect to that is Peter Abelard. Of course, that was a completely different situation; but I wouldn't want to be on either end of that bread knife.

I would have either beaten him to within an inch of his life, or went a little over that line and killed him. And that's worse than the castration. I'm not saying it's the right thing to do; but it's probably what I would have done.

17 is not an adult. Has anyone here decrying this vigilantism because the girl is "legal" ever actually spoken to a 17 year old girl? Any adult man that has sex with a 17 year old is a sick son of a bitch, and deserves whatever he gets from the father.

Revenant said...

Has anyone here decrying this vigilantism because the girl is "legal" ever actually spoken to a 17 year old girl?

I've spoken to 17 year olds of both genders. Some are childish, some are more emotionally mature than the pro-castration folks here. It isn't like a ray of light strikes you in the head on your 18th birthday and you automagically mature.

Both your prooposed solution and the nutjob's castration solution have the effect of estranging the father from the daughter while simultaneously placing the father in a place (i.e., prison) where he has no good opportunity to either reconcile or provide guidance to her. Both are stupid moves.

mm said...

So, if the HS basketball team wants to boink Miss (legal) Teenage Queen, that's just the way it goes but if a guy who's way older has the same urge, he's a "dirty old man"?

Does Righteous Daddy think a 60-year-old is likely to be more coercive than teenage peers? Is Righteous Daddy saying it's OK for his baby girl to fuck around as long as it's not with geezers or other ethnics or other religions or other classes?

I'm 68. I love to flirt with women of all ages. I come on to none of them. And yet...why should I reject anyone who interests me and has an interest in me just because of an age difference?