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...The Wellstone funeral pep-rally where the Dems booed Republicans as they entered the room....The Corretta Scott King funeral where Dems took cheap shots at Bush, who was only there to honor King....The death of Ted Kennedy leveraged to pass Obamacare.Clock is ticking. How long before the Democrats use Elizabeth's corpse as a political prop?I'm betting within 24 hours, before she is even cold.
RIP.WV: caperBad omen.
She said that she had urged him to end his campaign, “to protect our family from this woman, from his act,” but that he had refused, and she ended up supporting him, keeping silent about the affair as the campaign continued for a year and a half.“Being sick meant a number of things to me,” she told Ms. Winfrey. “One is that my life is going to be less long, and I didn’t want to spend it fighting.”
I hope her kids get through this all right. The younger two are awfully young to be without a Mom.RIP.
May God have mercy on her soul.
My sympathies to her surviving family, regardless of whatever profound disagreements I had (and they were numerous) with her own misguided outlooks and positions.
This happened awfully quick, considering they announced yesterday that she was going to die soon.I feel for her kids, her friends, and others still close to her. Not her ex-husband, though. I do hope that he is grieving.
keeping silent about the affair as the campaign continued for a year and a half.No, Elizabeth did much more than keep silent. She was party to the fraud, she perpetuated it. And she traded on our sympathy for her illness to make deathbed statements supporting the their Big Lie.Yes, we're all human and we all do selfish stupid things that we regret later.And yes, its not proper to trample on her grave with this. But you don't get to rewrite the history of it and expect the Truth to remain silent. Besides, Elizabeth already played that card.
the new sort of political wives, who had independent career aspirations yet choose to move into a man's shadow.Yes, like HRC: Elizabeth practiced law two years longer than Hillary did (Hillary quit when Bill became President; Elizabeth quit when her son Wade died.)I wonder now if fertility treatments caused her cancer. Women don't typically have children at 48 and 50, as Edwards did, without assistance like being pumped full of estrogen.
Ann really has issues with Elizabeth Edwards. How about a simple RIP and prayers for her family [maybe excluding Johnny]The way the liberal press sanctified Mrs. Edwards was awful, but you can hardly blame her for taking advantage of a friendly press -- every democrat does the same thing.
She was one of the new sort of political wives, who had independent career aspirations yet choose to move into a man's shadow.That's just your interpretation.Maybe she enjoy her life as she lived it.May God have mercy on her soul. That's what I say. We all do some good, some evil on this earth. If, on balance we do more good than evil, we've done our job.That's why we ask for forgiveness for our own trespasses, and forgive those who trespass against us.
She was party to the fraudIt's not having a bastard child that's the problem, it's the coverup. Just ask Grover Cleveland.
She was one of the new sort of political wives, who had independent career aspirations yet choose to move into a man's shadow.What shadow?!Politics is still a good old boys sport especially in America. Some women vicariously live their political dreams through the men they marry. Alas, they are still dreams because of the limited culture you live in and they understand this more than other women who sit in a university and pontificate about these women. Sometimes you have to take turns (like Hillary) because both can't be running at the same time even when the woman is capable. Try and change the society before marking these women. Why don't you run for office and see what you can do?
And Ann, you just went on at length about you Boho desire to embrace a morality that justifies sleeping around and serial monogamy.That's the Dylan post.You get pretty pissed when somebody (like me) says you're just being self-indulgent.Maybe Mrs. Edwards thought of herself as leading a good life. Maybe being a loyal wife, even in the face of the failures of her husband, was of paramount importance to her.When did this become a sin?
This is sad, and I'm praying for her family.I remember when what's-her-name (radio host. Laura Ingraham) was diagnosed with breast cancer, Elizabeth Edwards took to the Daily Kos to say that all the left-wing celebratory prose and death wishes were tasteless, disgraceful, and had no place in the public discourse. I think the same should be said on her behalf. Her husband may be scum, and I'm sure she has several quotes to her name that would make my skin crawl, but she was still a person who went through a painful and tragic ordeal.
FenI'm quoting from the article that Ann linked to.So I don't know who this "you" is that you are referring to here when you say this-you don't get to rewrite history.Anyways I think the striking point and what makes the most sense to me-what seems to explain her rational best is this:Being sick meant a number of things to me, one is that my life is going to be less long, and I didn’t want to spend it fighting.I think a good portion of America could tell what a phony Edwards was.I wouldn't demand that Elizabeth Edwards spend her last days trying to clue us in.****************************************Did you remember that she graduated from law school? She was one of the new sort of political wives, who had independent career aspirations yet choose to move into a man's shadow.Well, there are plenty of miserable lawyers-who are very unhappy with their career.
John was a dick.
It's the celebrity death comment thread effect.Elizabeth Edwards and 10,000 other Americans died today.
Eh. It's over. I'm cutting slack.I have no political foes on deathbeds in America. Only brothers and sisters. Countrymen.RIP Elizabeth Edwards.John is paying his own price, one way or another. All that counts now is what he does from now on. Same as the rest of us.
In how many marriages does one partner have to give up something for the aspirations/needs of the other? Most.I know people who've taken paycuts to be near their spouse's families or so their spouse can take that dream job. Is there a difference between giving up something to be near your wife's familiy and giving up something for your husband's career?It turned out that financially and politically it was a good decision for him to go into politics... until he started making video tapes.
I do not remember ever hearing that she was a lawyer. Until now.She came across as pretty and likable, so maybe the press never saw a need to pump-up her accomplishments like they did for HRC.
This happened awfully quick, considering they announced yesterday that she was going to die soon.I thought the same thing. I also didn't realize how old she was giving birth to her last two kids. RIP, God bless and help the kids.
May she find peace.
You sound somewhat mean Ann regarding this woman and I don't find it attractive at all.I don't understand any of the nastiness people display when someone dies-it's weird.We all die and it sucks for all of us.thank you and good day.
Elizabeth moved into the shadow of a man with a silver tongue and a great smile. Beware of investing in men who charm you with great smiles.They treat women like new cars that get traded in for a new model when too many miles and repair costs eventually come to them.Little Johnnie Edwards needed to give Elizabeth the same heads up that Bob Dylan wrote to his Babe.
And make me a gluten free, low fat, vege breaky now Meadsy Poo!
"She was one of the new sort of political wives, who had independent career aspirations yet choose to move into a man's shadow."Just like Hillary (and Michelle?). That's the problem, she subordinated herself to a worthless human being so she would have a backdoor to power. And it was all for nothing.In the end, I feel sorry for her children.
The reason she died so soon was because she made a conscious decision to stop taking the meds that were keeping her alive.This happens to many a Stage IV cancer patient, especially for those whose have gotten cancer for the second time after the cancer has metastasized. Usually when that happens, there is not much the physicians can do, but make your last days as comfortable and pain-free as they can.I suppose that this was the scenario Ms Edwards was faced with a few days/weeks back, and she decided to not prolong the inevitable. RIP, Ms Edwards.
"She was one of the new sort of political wives, who had independent career aspirations yet choose to move into a man's shadow."LOL. or...maybe she didn't want to outsource raising her kids. You're dating yourself, professor.
pm317,Oh, yeah, our society is so sexist that the only way a woman can get influence in politics is to marry an ambitious man. Geraldine Ferraro, Sarah Palin, Jennifer Granholm, Nikki Haley, Diane Feinstein, Barbara Boxer, Mary Landrieu, Olympia Snowe, Susan Collins, Debbie Stabenow . . . all of them had to follow the Clinton/Dole/Edwards path of marrying an ambitious political husband, right? There's just no other way for a woman to get influence in our society.
Is there going to be an Elizabeth Edwards rally that becomes a political rally in the vein of Paul Wellstone?
@KCbut you can hardly blame her for taking advantage of a friendly press -- every democrat does the same thing.Therein lies the rub, I do. we are responsible for our choices. That the media was a willing partner doesn't absolve Elizabeth Edwards. Ethical behavior is what we choose to do when no one is looking. Women are held to a different standard, especially professional and/or political women and this deathbed contrition nonsense serves none of us well. As a mother she should have set a better example, or did she drag the children into the deception too? One wonders how that was managed.Then there's her statement of yesterday, another media manipulation, damage control in the news cycle. Too little, too late.As to the rending of garments on the left, I clearly remember the mockery and rejoicing from the left when Tony Snow died. As I recall the feeling was he got what he deserved, not a moment of kindness or any feeling for his family.
That's quite a lengthy obituary for the wife of a failed presidential candidate.
I'm just curious. How long does it take before it is acceptable to speak ill of the dead? Five years? It's pretty common to speak ill of the dead, after all, even by folks who would protest speaking ill of the dead. Otherwise we couldn't have any kind of historical commentary. And I'm also curious. If the dead are dead, they're not going to be bothered by ill speaking. So, it seems to make a whole lot more sense to not speak ill of the living, who might be offended. But then blog comments would be pretty limited. Not speaking ill of the dead is one of those odd habits that everyone thinks of as an absolute rule of polite society. But it doesn't really make any sense. We should be able to speak as we see fit, ill or nice, if the dead person fits the comment. you're pushing 60.You, a woman raised in supposedly a more polite generation!
Clock is ticking. How long before the Democrats use Elizabeth's corpse as a political prop?Methinks someone is a little bit obsessed.
In the long run, integrity of character matters but is difficult to realize. For those who regard death as a step away from one reality toward another, there is room to consider the ongoing power of truth, grace and love.It is my hope the qualities of goodness Elizabeth Edwards was able to access, reveal and realize will bless those she loved and served.
"I don't understand any of the nastiness people display when someone dies-it's weird."Me either, but then again, it is always a head-scratcher for me when "gossip" is not only embraced, but totally accepted as part of life.
Whatever flaws she may have had, or however much of a phony she was, dying of cancer is not a pretty thing, and she wasn't in fact lying about her cancer. I bet John Edwards is feeling like a real shit bag right about now, though hopefully his family can find it in their hearts to forgive him. Hell, I hope Elizabeth forgave him.
Mary,Althouse is offended that Elizabeth Edwards' deathbed confessional didn't address her own feelings of betrayal as a voter. Instead, she decided (selfishly, I guess) to focus on friends and family and the people most important to her:“I have been sustained throughout my life by three saving graces — my family, my friends, and a faith in the power of resilience and hope.”That Ann Althouse wasn't as important to Edwards as these other people really sticks in the blogger's craw. You'll have to forgive these conservatives as they undergo their political transformation. Confronting the post-W. idea that political heroes need not be deified has made them very temperamental and rude. But thanks for the interesting, insightful and humorous comment ;-)
May she rest in peace.
Wherever she is now, she is sharpening a butcher knife. Someday she'll use it to cut off John's b*lls.Peter
May God have mercy on her soul.There is no soul, no God. We are just animals and decompose to dust. From dust to dust, there is no meaning except while alive.
For those who regard death as a step away from one reality toward another, there is room to consider the ongoing power of truth, grace and love.Wrong. Death is not a step towards anything but decomposition. You have no soul, nor do I or anyone else. Stop deluding yourself.
My sympathies to her family.I think I'll take exception to the idea that because Elizabeth Edwards graduated from law school that she had independent career aspirations. She had independent career options. Not the same thing at all. She may have never aspired to being the star of her own show. Being in a man's shadow was likely her *aspiration* else why not do what she clearly had the option of doing?But the thing of it is, really, that daughters of the wealthy have long had educations above what other women have had access to. That doesn't mean that they ever had a desire to follow the vocation or profession that logically would follow the degree.
Alex said...There is no soul, no God. We are just animals and decompose to dust. From dust to dust, there is no meaning except while alive.Wow. That's about as profound as a song from Kansas
12/7/10 5:49 PMOpenID stevenehrbar said...----------------------None of the women you mention have the courage to run for president (for a couple at least not yet -- it will be even more dramatic if Nikki Haley kind have the courage and run -- because they don't have a prayer to win, hell you don't have courage to elect a mormon let alone a brown ex-Hindu). Most of you will not vote to elect the women you mention even if some of them do run for the presidency. Come back with a response when you have successfully elected a woman for president. Right now you're talking chump change. The dimocrats had a chance with Hillary in 2008 but they royally screwed it up. I got excited when Palin openly used the phrase good old boys network but she didn't grow beyond that. Even now after two years of being in the public eye and being popular, she can't string a coherent sentence or put forth a smart argument -- get a voice coach at least.
Hm... I thought Althouse was implying that Edwards did not pursue her own career. Apparently she did, and seems to have significantly delayed having children.How odd.How is it that someone can be a professional person and still be seen as subjugating herself to her husband's career? That's irrational.
Hey Ann, you're a really catty, evil, mean bitch and you should work on that.
Kansas City,Firstly, great city. Secondly, yes..the prof does have issues, including, but not limited to, Elizabeth Edwards. They don't teach class in law school. Actually, they drill it out of you, and she's a driller.
Plenty of conservatives had compassion for Elizabeth Edwards, Big Gov't. Revolting that you tied this to political ideology, really.Please don't lump.
Looking at her bio, it seems the death of her son was the thing which made her give-up a 15 year law career.After that, she had two more children. Having already been a working mom, maybe she wanted to try-out being a stay-at-home mom.
Alex: You should google "begging the question," then come back and explain why there is only meaning while we're alive. Existentially, what's the difference between decomposed dust and animated dust?
Those "new breed" women didn't have that much of a choice. They were crashing up against a pretty high and hard wall. God, things are only just beginning to really budge now. Should they have thrown away nearly their whole lives on a lost cause (for them)? Or should they have (perhaps cynically) cut their losses at a certain point saying that they put their years in? Your best soldier years, male or female, are 18-35. After that retirement from the hardcore service is understandable.Anyway, as it turns out, her marriage was a lie except for her kids so it hardly matters.Her husband and Rilee are such smarmy new agey idiots. Neither one of them should run anything bigger than a yoga studio or weed cooperative.
"She was one of the new sort of political wives, who had independent career aspirations yet choose to move into a man's shadow."Getting degree in law does not equal carrer aspirations. You don't know what her aspirations were. It might be even opportunity of meeting a husband worthy getting into the shadow of, or one that would want and be able to support a family with more children.
Check the first comment here and the blogger's own view on the subject - both on this thread and the last one on it (from yesterday), Darcy. Just because I offered a reason for why those two and a few of their friends have made a ridiculous spectacle out of this event does not mean that I indicted everyone who shares their ideology. What would make you think that I did? I'm grateful for the conservatives here and elsewhere who constantly remind us that membership in a different political tribe does not equate to membership in a different species. I state that gratitude often, and with specific examples. How often do I have to remind people of that?
Wasn't it only yesterday that Ann said: "She did not apologize to us for participating in the deceit perpetrated by John Edwards, which skewed the 2008 Democratic primaries."She went to her grave once again disappointing those who wanted to dance on it. How rude of her to die so fast before everyone had a chance to snark at her.
"Death is not a step towards anything but decomposition. You have no soul, nor do I or anyone else. Stop deluding yourself."We all live, and yes, even thrive on "delusions" of one sort or another, from childhood onto our death.The greatest gift that humans, such as us, were EVER given, is that "TRUTH is unknowable".Singularly or collectively, we make our "best guesses", and then live our lives accordingly.One thing I do know, is this. The vast majority of us are good people, otherwise, we wouldn't be here to fight about our differences, brag about individual uniqueness or struggle to live another day in misery.
Fen said... "How long before the Democrats use Elizabeth's corpse as a political prop?I'm betting within 24 hours, before she is even cold."generally body temperature loss after death is pretty fast depending. obviously she wasn't surrounded by the warmth of the right wing's love.she was a human being though...which is more than I can say....well you get the idea.How shameful your comments are.
@Big Gov't: You'll have to forgive these conservatives as they undergo their political transformation...That. But if you didn't mean to lump, I apologize. Agree with you about the other thread.
All I'm saying here is that there is a new generation of political wife, and these women, who train for substantial careers of their own, expose themselves to the problems of the political male they decide to ride along with. It happened to Hillary, and by the way, where was the sisterhood, as Hillary's hopes were undercut by John Edwards, with the help of his enabling wife?
Alex said... " You have no soul, nor do I or anyone else."I just looked in a mirror and saw my reflection Alex. Do you see yours?
Big Gov't Trickling Down on You said... Confronting the post-W. idea that political heroes need not be deified has made them very temperamental and rude.Case in point: the deification of Barack Obama prior to the (alleged by Cedarford and other Sullivanists) deification of Sarah Palin.Mirror mirror....
"...yet choose to move into... MAN'S shadow." Admittedly did some editing on Althouse's words there, feeling certain she wouldn't mind.And if she does mind? We will hear from her in short order, as is usually the case.
I had little sympathy for Elizabeth Edwards in life. I have more for her children.By most accounts she was a mean, spiteful and deceitful woman who used her illness to garner a public sympathy to which she was not due.She took an active part in the fraud that would thrown our entire country into a desperate turmoil had Edwards been elected president. For that alone, she should be condemned.She took to the internet and posted mean and nasty comments under the pseudonym "cherubim" in which she attacked other people in not exactly cherubic terms.More than one person has relayed how she and John plotted to use her illness to electoral advantage and how unpleasant she was to deal with.Quite the contrast with the public image she attempted to cultivate. The public Elizabeth Edwards would perhaps have been worthy of my sympathy. But the private one most certainly was not. I hope that the Edwards' children will grow up to be very little like either of their parents.
But I don't understand why everyone thinks that Obama was deified. For whatever combination of reasons, there was a lot of relief with a style of leadership (at least on the campaign) that broke new ground. Obama broke taboos that constrained people to just saying what was politically expedient. Perhaps that paved the ground for people to project unreasonable expectations on someone presiding over a near-economic depression, but that is a different sort of let-down. Lefties think he's too compromising. But I never expected him to reverse some hard-core economic damage overnight. Neither, I think, did most Republican strategists. If you did, you can't be that knowledgeable about economics. Among conservatives, OTOH, I read one or two commenters pointing out that the Tea Party was a revolution against the idea of blanket respect for leadership, period. This made sense to me because I always noticed that Republicans nominate on the basis of seniority. They talk about the gravitas of the office of the presidency and are generally interested in the order that a sense of authority creates. I see these as different motivations from those that sway the left, generally speaking - and can more fully understand the meaning of the Tea Party, Sarah Palin, and this intense interest in "ordinary Americans" governing - at least from the right - as a result.
I think Alex is really Ann Laurie Gaylor.
Also the optimism of Obama's campaign was heightened because of the relief of ending the administration of W. With a pol that was hated by as many on the left as W. was, that only exacerbated notions of what to expect from an Obama administration.I think he has just moved back to the pragmatic, sober style of governing that was the norm among presidents before W. - although with a few progressive overtones and flourishes thrown in every now and then. It's still less than 2 years and much remains to be seen. I think they're more creative than they get credit for and that the reality of the job they're doing is something 1,000 miles below the surface of a completely detached media narrative - on both left and right. That seems to be the view at the top as well.
I think Alex is really Ann Laurie GaylorWell they're both atheistic enough but IIRC, Gaylor was a pretty talented journalist.
But I don't understand why everyone thinks that Obama was deified.Maybe because he was referred to as a sort of a God President?Maybe because Obama himself said this?"I am absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick …"Maybe because Obama also asserted that future generations would say that "this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal …"Your willful ignorance of these facts is pitiful.
Or maybe American voters are acting like kids who always imagined they could run away from home when things didn't go the way they wanted?
madawaskan: I'm quoting from the article that Ann linked to. So I don't know who this "you" is that you are referring to here when you say this-you don't get to rewrite history.The "you" was directed at whoever you were quoting.I wouldn't demand that Elizabeth Edwards spend her last days trying to clue us in.I agree with you. My point was that if Dems are going to whine when someone corrects the record, they shouldn't lie about the recently deceased. Dems shouldn't use the sanctity of her passing as cover to whitewash her involvement in the Big Lie, as the author attemtps to do. Pretending that Elizabeth Edwards "kept silent about the affair as the campaign continued for a year and a half" is like saying Ted Kennedy was "at the scene of a drowning". She did a hell of a lot more than "keep silent". She pushed the Lie, using her illness as an appeal to our sympathy. If people don't want that spoken of due to her recent death, then they shouldn't bring it up to begin with.
ndspinelli said...I think Alex is really Ann Laurie Gaylor.If that's true then Alpha Liberal is really Bill Lueders. :)
It's always a mistake to engage Jay, especially when he offers no source for his presumably most damning quote, the one yammering on about "sort of a God". As for Obama's actual quotations, there's nothing special about an administration "progressive" enough to refuse to gut the EPA and shut down scientists, or campaigning on improving the health of the country and the state of the environment. Before the Reaganites, that was a proud part of our history - the latter started by that commie-socialist Richard Nixon, in fact. Your ignorance of your own nation's history is what has contributed to its sad decline.
especially when he offers no source for his presumably most damning quote, the one yammering on about "sort of a God". Yawn.I mean in a way Obama’s standing above the country, above – above the world, he’s sort of God."You are a silly, ignorant, bore.
It's always a mistake to engage Jay, especially when he offers no source for his presumably most damning quote, the one yammering on about "sort of a God". Ooooops
As for Obama's actual quotations, there's nothing special about an administration "progressive" enough to refuse to gut the EPA Hysterical.So um, you went from asserting Obama wasn't defied, to this.Gee, I wonder why you're doing that, bozo?Oh, you're a silly, ignorant, fool.Nevermind.
FenYa frig I figured out the "you" crap about ten minutes after I hit published...I'm slow like that.Oy.Although I really don't think much history is going to be written about John Edwards-hopefully.Gawd what a putz.***************************Althouse"Sisterhood"?Well how about sisterhood and brotherhood someone should set up a How to Tell a Putz School.About the only rule I know for sure is-If he spends more time on his hair than I do-PUTZ.[This is damn generous -It takes about a half hour to blow dry my hair.]
I figured out the "you" crap about ten minutes after I hit published... I'm slow like that.No worries. I wasn't very clear.
Edwards colossal fail in that regard.
Ann Althouse said... All I'm saying here is that there is a new generation of political wife, and these women, who train for substantial careers of their own, expose themselves to the problems of the political male they decide to ride along with. It happened to Hillary, and by the way, where was the sisterhood, as Hillary's hopes were undercut by John Edwards, with the help of his enabling wife?-----------------------Appreciate the response, Ann. Look at it this way, though. These women are smart and they will marry smart and ambitious men. And they have to take turns at the political thing especially running for presidency and such. With Hillary she got battered by both political parties, and there was no sisterhood because young women now think they don't have to support another woman and in fact go out of their way to show they are not biased -- they delude themselves that they have a choice as in 'I would vote for a woman BUT NOT THIS woman.'There was a good mydd diary during the primary from a young guy who was supporting Obama about how he was killing his mother's dream (of electing the first woman president). At least he felt something.
and shut down scientists,You mean like this?Some 11th-hour White House fiddling with an Interior Department report on offshore drilling safety wrongly implied that engineering experts had endorsed a political decision to impose a six-month ban on deepwater drilling, the department’s inspector general concluded in a finding made public this week.Oh, I bet you did, clown...
You're the one who linked your belief in Obama's supposed godliness with his ability to enact environmental protections. Do you regret that linkage now? Because it seems you're running away from it. Why do you blame me when you put the two ideas together?There are treatments for early-onset Alzheimer's, Jay. I encourage you to ask your doctor about them.
Elizabeth and Hillary are craven power mongers as evidenced by them giving up their own promising professional careers early, to follow the two Bubbas around in their careers in Backwaters USA. They both were just waiting until they were in the 70s to pounce! Raaaaraarr.Makes sense as always A-House.
Jay,Nobody cares. Obama's not perfect. But your characterization of him as somehow politicizing science as egregiously as Bush did is stupid and will go nowhere. How did you like their mismanagement of MMS?
Ann Althouse wrote:All I'm saying here is that there is a new generation of political wife, and these women, who train for substantial careers of their own, expose themselves to the problems of the political male they decide to ride along with. Hillary Clinton was able to use her husbands career to become a senator, much more high profile than a lawyer at an arkansas law firm. And if Edwards had won (he wouldn't have, but lets pretend) ot would mean that she would be first lady of the US. And in any case, if someone makes substantially more money (like say Edwards suing all those companies) that money is no longer a reason to have a career, why would she need to continue doing it? When instead she could do what she loved, spend time with the family or help her husbands career so that he rises to greater and greater heights which would also mean that her stature would grow as well.
Ann doesn't know what she's talking about, and anyone can see the evil dripping from her words. I've told her she's a NewAger. People accuse me of being "angry". Ann said I'm filled with self-pity and it's not "sexy". Well, do a comparison and tell me which is worse. Attitudes like Ann's are what I have to live with, and it disgusts me, so I'm "angry". Elizabeth Edwards had such callousness enter her life as well. I wonder if Rielle is already calling Dave Matthews to set up her wedding? I wonder if Meade's ex-wife reads this blog and cries? I wonder if anyone associated with NewAge is even remotely able to think of others as they think of themselves?Many of you - too many if you ask me - are unworthy of the lives you've been blessed with.I'm going to hang on to Elizabeth Edwards for a long, long time. I'm going to think of all the people who committed themselves to others only to be betrayed. I'm going to think of these ugly, inhuman feminist formulations Ann keeps feeding us. And I'm going to continue to ready my shattered heart for a grave without having known love.I tried, lord knows, I tried.
Hillary Clinton was able to use her husbands career to become a senator, much more high profile than a lawyer at an arkansas law firm.-------------------What a laugh! It would be accurate if she was a housewife baking cookies and suddenly because of her husband's high profile was installed as a senator. What more do you guys want from her to show that she is her own person, smart and competent? I am surprised that people make comments like the one above even after everything that has happened in the last 3-4 years. And you elected Bush junior (who didn't do squat for the first 40 years of his life!) the president of this country (because of his dad's high profile). unfuckingbelievable.
I think you're sexy, Crack.Well, actually I'm biologically unqualified to make that determination.But I know a girl who thinks you're sexy.Her name's "Titus". Cheer up, dude.
Many of you - too many if you ask me - are unworthy of the lives you've been blessed with.Why? Because we're no longer sympathetic to someone who stole our sympathy?I'm going to hang on to Elizabeth Edwards for a long, long time. I'm going to think of all the people who committed themselves to others only to be betrayed.Be sure to include all the people betrayed by John and Elizabeth Edwards.
pm317,What more do you guys want from her to show that she is her own person, smart and competent? I want her to explain talking to the dead with the "psychic", Jean Houston - how does that fit into the "smart and competent' part of our show?I want her to explain going out of her way to start a war room dedicated to telling the world Monica was insane when Monica was the only person telling the truth.I want her to explain how - with Monica as the only honest person - Hillary and Bill end up with sterling reputations, and new careers, while Monica had to leave the fucking country to escape the awful reputation those two scumbags orchestrated for her. I want to hear more about Hillary escaping sniper fire in Bosnia. I want to hear what her, and your, definition of the word "delusion" is.And last but not least, I wonder how long you awful people will keep the charade going that this NewAge loon with a bunch of titles, but few real accomplishments, is somehow respectable.That's what I want.
Crack, I'm not as bright as you, but even I can see that you're painting with a broad brush, there.
"I've told her she's a NewAger."Well, I'm not a New Ager. I can't stand New Age stuff. Your anti-New Age stuff is almost cult-like, Crack. I can say things about gender and culture without it being anything like religion. Do you really think you are looking at things in a clear and undistorted way? The fact is, Elizabeth Edwards was in a power-seeking alliance with a sleazeball who put his own desires ahead of ours, and she and he used her cancer as a tool to manipulate minds. I don't think that is right, and though it's sad that anyone has to die, I'm not sentimental about it. If I was willing to speak in your terms I would say that sentimentality about death and making saints out of cancer victims is a New Age phenomenon.
Oh Crack, Crack, you crack me up!
EE was the one person who could have stopped Edwards from running in 2007-8, but they apparently thought they could get away with it. Or she (unconsciously?) wanted to set him up for a bigger fall.OTOH"The dead are dead. Let that be their atonement." -- Ambrose BierceWhat did voters see in that creep, anyway?
Fen,Be sure to include all the people betrayed by John and Elizabeth Edwards.Oh, I feel so terrible for you all. Just like I feel bad for all the people who believed in Obama but trashed Bush for 8 years. Face it: You're stupid.You have no political smarts what-so-ever. Stop voting and leave it to the adults. And shut up - nobody needs to hear idiots speak. It's real simple:If you voted for Obama, just shut up. You have relinquished your right to claim yourself as a thinking human being. "Hope and Change" can not be claimed as a political platform. If you thought it was, just shut up. Elizabeth Edwards had substance. She was betrayed because she was smarter than her betrayers and both of them knew it - he was compensating as best as his lame ass could. I know this phenomena intimately - it's the price one must pay for emotional intelligence, smarts beyond book learning. I still get attacked by people that, when my life was good, I offered them a helping hand. It's like they've been waiting for their chance my whole life:They used me for their purposes then and they're still attempting to somehow use me now.My crime: I know more than they do and I won't be humble. Not humble about what I know - I just won't be humble. You know, that NewAge shit that says unless you claim there are spirits around - whether you call them God or ancestors or whatever you can claim to channel - you have no right to claim shit. Fuck all y'all.I don't give a shit about your degrees. I don't care about what jobs you hold or how much money you make. I've known former slaves - real sharecropping broken spirit slaves with skin as black as an African night - who have never attained wealth, or recognition of any kind, abut who had waaay more sense than most people on this planet today, much less this blog. And they were waaay more compassionate. As I said, many of you disgust me. You don't even have to work at it. Just knowing you're breathing is enough. Elizabeth Edwards is dead from cancer. You didn't understand she didn't want to fight? You don't understand her on a tarmac, ripping open her blouse to reveal a chest of mastectomy scars, and screaming her despair as her "husband" tried to pretend she, too, had lost her mind (like Monica) instead of he had broken her heart? She didn't betray you, Fen, she didn't know you. You played yourself. Blame yourself. You're an ignoramous. I just posted Gene Simmons today, saying he fucked up. When are the rest of you going to join him? When are you going to look in the mirror and admit the only thing wrong with this country is you? Ann keeps the temperature down in her house - for the environment!! IT'S A STUPID LIE! It's the kind of stupid lie that makes this country suck now. You people can't THINK. Think about that:A CONSTITUTIONAL LAWYER WHO CAN'T THINK!Oh, as her pal, Glen Reynolds says, we're in the very best of hands! He writes of the credentialed but uneducated - does he EVER include himself in there? Does Ann? If you sat where my friends and I do, admiring your work, who would that be? Ann's voted for Democrats her whole life. That's the party of blacks. We ain't in such good shape - is there a connection? Is Ann - with her constant race-baiting and feminist malarky - even a little responsible for the sorry shape we're in? Are you, Fen? I've been to Hospice. I've seen the bullshit that goes on there. I've laughed in the face of death long before I got out of elementary schooll - you want a cookie for your insights? Fuck you. None of you are worth a shit. You're mean, cruel, inhuman people and, I guess, it takes an enraged person with no family to let you know there's a benefit if it means I'll never be as callous to anyone as you guys can be to everyone. I spit on you and I spit on your graves. It's you who make this life hard on those who have nothing.
10,000 other people died today, most far nicer and better people than Elizabeth Edwards. Just getting a terminal disease does not necessarily slake one's thirst for the trappings of wealth and thirst for more control and power. Even using their terminal disease to help lie to and manipulate others to gain the things Elizabeth still craved.--------------"stevenehrbar said...pm317,Oh, yeah, our society is so sexist that the only way a woman can get influence in politics is to marry an ambitious man. Geraldine Ferraro, Sarah Palin, Jennifer Granholm, Nikki Haley, Diane Feinstein, Barbara Boxer, Mary Landrieu, Olympia Snowe, Susan Collins, Debbie Stabenow . . . all of them had to follow the Clinton/Dole/Edwards path of marrying an ambitious political husband, right? There's just no other way for a woman to get influence in our society."Sorry, but your examples don;t exactly jibe with reality, except for Palin, Haley, and Susan Collins.Like Jane Harman - Feinstein is married to a billionaire. The political careers of Snowe, Boxer, Granholm, Ferraro were all advanced by having the leisure to enter politics since they were financially set through their husband's money. Landrieu like Pelosi - wealthy and connected politically thanks to Daddy.Palin and Haley and many others DO prove family or husband money/ political clout is not necessary - but it sure helps.As for Hillary and Elizabeth - both women would have not gone far at all in politics on their own merits, and neither was exactly a wealth generating legal superstar in their short careers as practicing lawyers. They were with Bill and John because they were both smart enough to understand that money and power would come to them through Bill and JOhn and only because of Bill and John.Lets also mention Michelle Obama. 3 years a practicing lawyer and quit after a rocky road as a AA attorney that started failing the Bar Exam twice. All Michelle is or was was sister to the Princeton basketball superstar which got her IN Princeton on a free ride to keep older Bro there and not bolt for the NBA. Then followed by the time of being the wife of the Annointed One and kept in cushy largely no-show jobs with the City and U of CHicago jobs. As a sort of a pet of the 3 Billionaire Jewish families that were mentoring Obama. (Crowns, Pritzkers, Klutzniks)No wonder this prideful Nubian Queen woman sometimes lets her anger and resentfullness slip to the surface.
I think it's just as likely that Elizabeth Edwards made conscious choices about how she wanted to live her life and that she wouldn't have characterized those choices as giving up her own career or being in her husband's shadow. Did she ever say that anywhere? That she felt deprived, that she was second best, that she had to sacrifice her career for his? A lot of women start out pursuing a career and decide along the way that this is not what will make them happy. And if they're fortunate, they get to make other choices and find happiness some other way, which can include supporting a husband's career path. Why is that choice subject to criticism? After all, you can't sleep with a career, can't have kids with a career, can't walk on the beach, catch a movie, take a vacation with a career. As the writer of this blog presumably knows quite well given her own recent choices in this area.
Darcy,Yes, I am. Not everything falls nicely between neat parameters. I'll leave it to the lawyers to parse shit until it has no meaning anymore. I'm an artist - tonight I spread it around like Pollack.
I hate NewAge and NewAgers more than Crack does and I've read what he went through to get to that point.
I was referring to the first comment, Crack, not the second.Just to clarify. And my comment was a pushback on the futility I sensed in yours that saddened me. I do hope you find what you are searching for. That it/she is out there.
Because we're no longer sympathetic to someone who stole our sympathy?This suggests a finite supply, which is unfortunate because the demand is infinite.
I'm taken aback by criticism of a dying woman. Death isn't actually about the dead, among other important, utterly non-sentimental, non-political things. Here is something well-said. If the link is unclear, it's called "Elizabeth Edwards: Public Life, Public Death." http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2035800,00.html?xid=rss-topstories&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+time%2Ftopstories+%28TIME%3A+Top+Stories%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher
No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Because we're no longer sympathetic to someone who stole our sympathy?Madison: This suggests a finite supply, which is unfortunate because the demand is infinite.No. Its not about the supply. Elizabeth manipulated me once already by banking my sympathy to perpetuate fraud. Why should I be expected to extend her more? You want to throw good money after bad? Fine. But don't browbeat the rest of us for not throwing in with you.
Darcy said... I was referring to the first comment, Crack, not the second. Just to clarify. And my comment was a pushback on the futility I sensed in yours that saddened me. I do hope you find what you are searching for. That it/she is out there.If men are smart, they would try marriage once. If upon failure, death, or divorce that marriage is dissolved, I would recommend not to ever do it again. Don't get me wrong, I'm a very happily married man, but in the unfortunate event, may it never happen to me in this life, I find myself being single again I will never get married again. Once is enough. More than that is self abuse.
Well, all I'll say is in Mrs. Edwards passing is that she is now at peace and I wish her children and her parents that same comfort in their grief. They are the losers in this drama.
Being disappointed too easily, Methadras and Fen, is always a far sight better than living with no hope.Look to Crack, if you doubt that.Oh, and Crack? Read the above. There isn't a single person here who wouldn't benefit from a larger dose of "perspective".We simply need to want that, and with luck, learn something from it when it comes our way.
blake said...No man is an islandI liked that movie. Jeffery Hunter right?
What bullshit, Penny.Crack has hope, or he wouldn't be here. He wouldn't be trying to change people's thinking.
Nobody sheds tears at the death of a con man. Or in this case; Con woman.Ms. Edwards could have kept her illness and her private life well.. private. She choose not to do so, and lied about herself, her husband, and their relationship in the pursuit of power.So yeah, sorry she died. But I have a limited amount of sympathy and I'll use it for others more worthy of it.
And "Crack" you're beginning to sound a little 'Cracked'. I hope everything is OK with you.
pm317 wrote:What a laugh! It would be accurate if she was a housewife baking cookies and suddenly because of her husband's high profile was installed as a senator. What more do you guys want from her to show that she is her own person, smart and competent? SHe is competent. Certainly more so than Obama (though that isn't saying much. I was merely pointing out that it wasn't as if Hillary actually gave up her law career to help out her man while she sitting at home. In addition to being the first lady, she became a (bigger) powerbroker on her own BECAUSE she gave up her law career. It was in response to Anne's point that both Hilary and Elizabeth Edwards were both succesful lawyers who gave up their careers to help their man iwth his political ambitions.And while Hillary has competency, you can't seriously argue that she would now be a New York senator if her husband weren't prsident first. Noone would have heard of her otherwise. She would still be successful in what she was doing, but she woundt be on the world stage to the degree that she is.
According to the NYT article...Mrs. Edwards had always been a dominant figure in her husband’s political life. Often called his closest adviser and surrogate, she reviewed his television advertisements and major speeches, helped pick his lieutenants, joined internal debates over tactics and strategy, and sometimes dressed down, or even forced out, campaign aides she thought had failed her husband.She may have been more interested in moving a shadow of man than she was in moving in a man's shadow. A person who dies leaves behind a legacy of words and deeds to be processed and sorted by those who knew them. A key component in processing death and grief is open, honest reflection. To look for and consider the congruity or incongruity of a person's actions is not the same "being critical", mean, judgmental or small minded.The amount of angst and emotion that has surfaced in the two EE posts amazes me.
Ann Althouse wrote:The fact is, Elizabeth Edwards was in a power-seeking alliance with a sleazeball who put his own desires ahead of ours, and she and he used her cancer as a tool to manipulate minds.She got cancer after he lost the election to Bush. She's the wife of a prominent politician who now has cancer. What is she supposed to do about that? You don't think the media might have something to do with the fact that people know Elizabeth had cancer? And she's using it as a tool to manipulate minds? And I suppose Bush was using his admitted problems with booze as a younger man as a means to "manipulate minds". I would argue instead, that she put on a brave face to what could be and turned out to be a death sentence. I don't think that is right, and though it's sad that anyone has to die, I'm not sentimental about it. If I was willing to speak in your terms I would say that sentimentality about death and making saints out of cancer victims is a New Age phenomenon.,what could she have done that wouldnt' have been manipulating minds in your mind? Is a walk for breast cancer or aids reaserch manipulating minds? Is saying you have cancer and being an advocate for the disease manipulating minds? What exactly is her crime?
rcocean wrote:Ms. Edwards could have kept her illness and her private life well.. private. She choose not to do so, and lied about herself, her husband, and their relationship in the pursuit of power. So if you are public about your illness, like say Michael J. Fox, you are instantly a fraud? Anyone who is upfront about their illness and uses their celebrity as an advocate for that disease should instead lock themselves in a closet and just die? As to whether she lied about her husband and their relationship, you do realize that it's husband and THEIR relationship and not yours? Why does she owe you absolute truth when you haven't even met her? Are you absolutely truthful about all aspects of your private life?Because enquiring minds want to know? For all I know she and John could have simply been married for the kids and for convenience and she could have said she didn't care if he boffed the bimbo as after her chemo she no longer had the energy for sex. Or after having their kids they no longer had sex together but stayed together for mutual benefit. I know plenty of couples where the spouses haven't had sex with each other in 20 years. If he's getting his stuff on the side and she's ok with it, why is it your business? ANd if she's not ok with it, but after learning about it, she becomes ok with it, again why is that your business? If anything she was given a raw deal with her cancer diagnosis, then had her husband embarrass her in front of the entire world. Why are we demanding that she also be responsible for absolute truth to us?
What exactly is her crime? Aiding and abetting a known creep with a huge skeleton waiting to fall out of his closet, even bigger than Obama using Ayers to write his first book.OK, the love child might not have hurt him that much in the primaries (if his wife weren't ill)(these were the same people who voted for the horndog twice), but it would in the general.
Elizabeth manipulated me once already by banking my sympathy to perpetuate fraud. Fraud has five elements: (1) a false statement of a material fact,(2) knowledge on the part of the defendant that the statement is untrue, (3) intent on the part of the defendant to deceive the alleged victim, (4) justifiable reliance by the alleged victim on the statement, and (5) injury to the alleged victim as a result.Let's focus on the first element:Imagine her pretending she had cancer in order to help her husband become President! Although you have to admire her follow through by actually dying from it.
She got cancer after he lost the election to Bush. "In 2007, the couple announced that Elizabeth Edwards' cancer had returned after a period of remission"
Politics seems easier to discuss than death...maybe a separation of church and state really is a separation of death and politics. The Professor is making and remaking her point that the Edwards family put on a fantasy campaign that never had a chance and Elizabeth knew it and never blew the whistle. That game playing directly sucked away the support that Hillary could have retained from Hillary fearing Dems who could not just vote for "None of the Above" but could vote for Edwards. That's politics. Crack is at another level and is demanding total reality when men face suffering and death, which is a religious issue. Both points of view are valid. Christians resolve this with the verse where Jesus tells them to Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and to render unto God what is God's.That divides the material present world that is passing away from the eternal and therefore more real world called The Kingdom of God. Death is the cruel Passing Away moment for each body, and our dealing with the reality of death is when we must deal with eternity and with God.
As someone who had a spouse betray a marriage, I have to say I had some sympathy for her. It happens not infrequently - but having it in the press must make it very painful.I'll concede all the laudatory things people will say about her as long as they mention her selfish judgment regarding her husband's campaign in 2008. At the outset of the campaign she knew about the affair - yet she not only allowed him to go ahead, she actively drove certain portions of the campaign. It was almost as if she wanted the opportunity of be "Fist Lady" so bad, she didn't care. That was not so special.
Penny said... Being disappointed too easily, Methadras and Fen, is always a far sight better than living with no hope.What does that even mean? Living with no hope? You mean like when you get the diagnosis of cancer, then you try to fight it, only to lose to it? If that doesn't get you than something else will. Hope has nothing to do with it? Mrs. Edwards could have hoped that the cancer would have gone away, but it didn't and it killed her. What hope could she possibly hold out for beyond that? Maybe to hope that her children will be safe and sound and to see old age with children and grand children.She left letters for her children and family to impart advice and to say goodbye, no? So that was the best she could 'hope' for.
Even after all these years, the depths of your pathology continue to amaze. You still owe GWPDA an apology.
But I don't understand why everyone thinks that Obama was deified."Mmmmmmm, Mmmmmmm, Mmmmmmm."SF Chronicle: Obama is 'a Rare Kind of Attuned Being,' a 'Lightworker'TIME Magazine, re: Obama: "Some princes are born in palaces. Some are born in mangers. But a few are born in the imagination, out of scraps of history and hope."NEWSWEEK's Evan Thomas, re: Obama (as already pointed out twice in this thread): "I mean, in a way Obama's standing above the country, above the world. He's sort of God."Merely the first four instances to spring readily to mind, you understand. Citations aplenty for all four (as well as innumerable others) popping up instantly, via even the most cursory of Google searches.Bitch, please.
@HDHouseHow rude of her to die so fast before everyone had a chance to snark at her.You don't get it, do you? Elizabeth Edwards planned the timing of her press statement. You've obviously not cared for a person dying of cancer. Let me make it clear; cancer mets spread to the brain very quickly, especially in end stage breast cancer. The dying person becomes disoriented and less lucid as pain meds are increased and the body begins to shut down 2-3 days before actual death. I know many of you think I'm harsh, but how many Americans died of cancer today in public wards and nursing homes, alone, unremarked upon and unmourned?So excuse me if I do not consider the very wealthy Edwards dying in relative comfort surrounded by her family as some sort of national loss.Edwards played the game hard and she lost. A better epitaph than phony sainthood.
Big Gov't Trickling Down on You said... You're the one who linked your belief in Obama's supposed godliness with his ability to enact environmental protections. Huh?I quoted Obama, who clearly believes his godliness will save the environment. Neither of which has anything to do with what I believe.You do realize you make idiotic assertions like this because you're constantly wrong on the facts, right?Obama's not perfect. But your characterization of him as somehow politicizing science as egregiously as Bush didBush did not "politicize" science.Obama has.You can't address the fact that he said he would not (while falsely accusing Bush of doing so) "politicize science" but has been caught red handed.You are not that bright and easily misled.
Nothiing like death to bring us all togetherMs Edwards: RIP
This is probably an inappropriate question, but if as some have speculated, she knew the end was near and stopped taking the drugs: Did she decide to check out in December before the Death Tax kicks back in in 2011? Dying before January would be very lucrative for heirs, as opposed to hanging on until January 1st and having her estate get slammed with a 55% tax (or I think 35% if the deal Obama made with the Republicans goes through)...
Clyde: I would certainly hope so.
It's unfortunate Amazon doesn't sell Prozac. And...it's too bad Ms. Edwards wasn't thinner. Her children lost a mother. It seems some of you are in the words of Richie Havens, "a motherless child".
BJM wrote:I know many of you think I'm harsh, but how many Americans died of cancer today in public wards and nursing homes, alone, unremarked upon and unmourned?So excuse me if I do not consider the very wealthy Edwards dying in relative comfort surrounded by her family as some sort of national loss. Not everyone dying in cancer wards were the wife of public figures. And I have sympathy for the families of those dying in the public wards too. It's too bad you're such a heartless bastard.
"Did she decide to check out in December before the Death Tax kicks back in in 2011?"If so, wouldn't it be fair to say that foot-dragging by Obama and the Democrats hastened Mrs. Edwards's death?Gives new meaning to "Death Tax."
Ralph wrote:Aiding and abetting a known creep with a huge skeleton waiting to fall out of his closet, even bigger than Obama using Ayers to write his first book.That known creep was her husband and that skeleton waiting to fall out of the closet was a secret that would harm her family. Do you think that your need to find out his private buisness outweighs her need to protect her family? And if she is ok with him having a love child, or at least is putting on a brave face for the public and not trying to air her dirty laundry for you personally, why do you think she owes you where she has to sabotage her husbands career over something that she apparently can live with?I think Edwards is a creep, and thought he was a creep long before it came out that he was bonking his aide (or whatever she was) but Edwards was married to "that creep" so I think she probably doesn't think he's a creep and think he'd make a good president. A lot of people did. And that might even be despite his failings as a husband. Just go down the list of presidents who had mistresses and who tried to hide them and you'll note that it's a pretty impressive list.
ndspinelli: ...it's too bad Ms. Edwards wasn't thinner.Why? You having trouble propping up her corpse to support your cheap political shots?It seems some of you are in the words of Richie Havens, "a motherless child".You'll have an easier time of it if you drop the Mantle of Sanctimony.
Big Gov't Trickling Down on You said... Jay,How did you like their mismanagement of MMS?Um, yes Obama appointed a "global warming activist" lawyer with no experience in the field of oil and gas to head the federal Minerals Management Service (MMS).It didn't go well. Nobody is surprised.You have no point.
I quoted Obama, who clearly believes his godliness will save the environment.Provide one quote of Obama that uses the term "godliness" in reference to himself, you dumb, lying, chicken-shit motherfucker.
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