November 4, 2010

With President Obama going to Mumbai — where he will be protected from coconuts — I've started reading the Mumbai Mirror.

Here's "Coconuts removed from trees in preparation for Barack Obama's India trip." But searching for the story — I'd heard Rush Limbaugh exclaim about it — I ended up at a Mumbai Mirror article about the special dishes the local chefs were cooking up in honor of the visit.
O’Barry Pie

This recipe is as rich as Obama’s biography. It uses 44 ingredients in honour of the 44th American president’s life.

There’s nothing quite as American as an American pie.
Maybe people who hear the song or see the movie titled "American Pie" think there's a dessert we call "American pie." Americans say: as American as apple pie.
But this pie combines elements from the various places he’s lived in.

Cocoa and coffee from Kenya, of which Obama’s father was a native, Polynesian fruits like banana and pineapple because he spent his childhood in Hawaii, and a coconut-and-rice pudding from Indonesia, where he lived with his stepfather for a few years.... 
The result is new and unusual. A single bite brings on a rush of many separate elements and, at the same time, has its own overall personality, just like the person it’s named after. The attractive pie is garnished with hazelnuts and rice crispies.
Rice Krispies for the time he spent in Kansas?

So now, I'm really getting into the Mumbai Mirror. What's its explanation of why Obama is coming to town:
Unlike his Democratic predecessor Bill Clinton, who came to India and charmed Indians, President Obama will be here physically, but his mind is likely to be on what he can carry back home from this country.
Most notably, his eyes will be set on creating jobs, which he can accomplish to some extent if he can wangle some of the multi-billion-dollar contracts, especially in the defence sector, that US firms are keen to sign. But this would not be easy as India is not yet ready to sign the agreements for ensuring sale of defence ware to New Delhi.
He's not coming here to slather us with love like Bill did. He just wants our money, they're thinking?

Look how the Mumbai Mirror covers our elections:
Americans awoke on Wednesday to a vastly different political landscape, with Republicans retaking the House of Representatives as US voters punished Democrats over high unemployment and a sluggish economic recovery, delivering a divided Congress in Tuesday’s midterm poll.

Resurgent Republicans, led by the ultra-conservative Tea Party insurgency, steamrolled Democrats, taking at least 60 seats and a commanding majority in the House. It was one of the chamber’s largest political swings of the past century.
Ultra-conservative? I've never thought of the Tea Party as ultra-conservative.

Then there's "Indian-American Nikki Haley scripts history in US politics":
Daughter of Punjabi Sikh immigrants from Amritsar, Namrata Nikki Randhawa Haley who has become the first Indian origin woman to become the governor of a US state has been propelled to centre stage of American politics after her baptisation into politics in 2004.

She is the second Indian-American leader after Bobby Jindal, the governor of Louisiana to have caught the attention of the Americans.
I'd never put that together. Two Indian-American governors now. Interesting. Both Republicans, for what it's worth.
It has not all been smooth sailing for the tall Haley, 38, mother of son Nalin, 9, and daughter Rena, 12 as she had to overcome allegations of extra-marital affairs and racial digs  to become the first Asian woman to don a US governorship.
What were the "racial digs"? I don't know, and I don't like Indians thinking we were awful to Haley.

180 comments:

AllenS said...

They removed the coconuts so they wouldn't fall and hit Obama on the fucking head.

kent said...

They removed the coconuts so they wouldn't fall and hit Obama on the fucking head.

Any/all coconuts would end up the losers in that confrontation, I assure you.

Sixty Grit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ann Althouse said...

@Sixty I made you think that. Words are cool.

traditionalguy said...

Haley and Jindal are darker complected than the Caucasians from Norway, but their race is also Caucasian. Some rural voters may not know that factoid. Both Haley and Jindal are super smart and of Indian Sub-continent origins. In fact they are too smart to let the Democrats take them for granted as African-Americans do.

MayBee said...

The racial digs were liberal people, pretending to be concerned about what Republicans would think, wondering if it could possibly true that Haley (and Jindal) are not actually Hindu.

They questioned whether they had converted to Christianity just to seem less Indian-y.

I'll look for a link.

Clyde said...

From what I read, Obama is taking his own chef to India so that he doesn't risk being poisoned or having to eat bugs or chilled monkey brains ("Great delicacy!") like in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom.

Maguro said...

Racial digs against Haley? I don't know. Did Biden make another convenience store joke?

Data Schlepper said...

In Obama's defense, the arrangements for his trip are no more lavish than the arrangement's for Bush's trips.
And don't forget he's traveling to Mumbai, a city where there was a major terrorist attack

Lem said...

When Obama hosted the Indians at his first White House State Dinner.. the Salahis crashed it.

The Salahis are coconuts.

Geraly Unite-O'Day said...

coming out of lurking... re: the racial digs... i believe they're referring to when sen. knotts called haley (and obama) ragheads.

kent said...

And don't forget he's traveling to Mumbai, a city where there was a major terrorist attack

You mean "man-made disaster," don't you...?

pm317 said...

She was called a raghead.

Is that racist?

MayBee said...

Oh, sorry, in Haley's case people were suspicious she is still a Sikh and converted just for politics.

Also, apparently a SC state senator called her a "raghead".

S.C. Republicans condemn 'raghead' comment

South Carolina Republicans were quick Thursday evening to condemn the remarks of a prominent Republican State Senator, Jake Knotts, who referred to a gubernatorial candidate as a "raghead" on an online political show today. [Knotts also referred to President Obama with the same term.]

Irene said...

Humble pie for the time he spent in the White House?

Ignorance is Bliss said...

What were the "racial digs"?

Maybe they were referring to Biden's 7-Eleven comment.

Graham Powell said...

So now 4% of US governers are of Indian descent? Cool.

Jindal is beloved in Louisiana (my home state) because after decades of governers who were corrupt and/or incompetent, his hands seem to be clean and he gets things accomplished.

ndspinelli said...

In typical Obama fashion, he has shit on our good ally, India.

MayBee said...

Here's one link to a blog about the questions about their religion.

paul a'barge said...

What were the "racial digs"?

google

John said...

to those of us who don't think that the tea party is the greatest thing since sliced federalist papers, the tea party is ultra-conservative.

blame it on the MSM all you want, but when the loudest voices over the past couple of years are Plain, Angle, Bachman, O'Donnell, et al, there is the impression that the easy-to-understand-and-sympathize-with libertarian arguments of the tea party are not all there is to the movement. There seems to be a lot of conservative-principles-on-all-fronts-at-any-cost elements involved as well. Which is totally fine--fly your ultra-conservative flags high! God knows the ultra-liberal democrats in congress and the white house did for the past couple of years. In any case, people who haven't been involved with the tea party haven't been involved in the dialogue between its diverse members, online or in real life, so don't expect them to be aware of its varied reasons for being.

anyways, before somebody jumps all over me, I'm not a liberal, didn't vote for obama and didn't vote in the recent election because I didn't want to vote for anybody.

Lem said...

They must read the Onion in Mumbai.

Class factotum said...

They questioned whether they had converted to Christianity just to seem less Indian-y.

Christianity has been in India for a very long time, especially in Kerala. The Portuguese proselytized in Goa starting in the 15th century. I don't know if these two converted, but it is possible they are cradle Christians.

Sixty Grit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
dbp said...

They are both converts: Jindal converted to Catholicism in high school, even as his parents were active in their Hindu faith. Ms Haley's conversion seems to have been through her marriage to a Christian man.

former law student said...

Ultra-conservative? I've never thought of the Tea Party as ultra-conservative.


This explains why the professor thinks she's not a conservative.

The mainstream of the Republican party is conservative. But the Tea Party doesn't think the mainstream is nearly as conservative as it should be, which is why Tea Partyists were challenging mainstream Republicans.

Moderates who think that mainstream Republicans are conservative, thus consider the Tea Party movement to be ultraconservative, because Tea Partyists have positioned themselves substantially to the right of mainstream Republicans.

The professor, who doesn't think that the Tea Party Movement is ultraconservative, thus must be a conservative.

Michael Haz said...

Two billion dollars. This sojourn to India is costing the American taxpayers two billion dollars.

How can that make any sense to the President and his political advisors at a time of high unemployment and steep budget deficits? It is breathtaking in its arrogance.

Of course while he's in Mumbai he can work on setting up the call center for ObamaCare.

KS said...

The Obamas, who did not go to any Advent or Christmas services last year, say that they want to be in India to celebrate Diwali.

I think that the president's entourage for this trip is larger than any during the Bush Administration.

Richard Fagin said...

"We" weren't awful to Haley, just the press were. It is a reasonable assumption for Indians to make that Haley suffered "racial digs" because Haley is a Republican. Any non-white Republican suffers racial digs and worse at the hands of the lily-white American press.

bgates said...

Christianity has been in India for a very long time, especially in Kerala. The Portuguese proselytized in Goa starting in the 15th century.

According to tradition, St Thomas brought Christianity to India in the year 52.

Ankur said...

The oldest church in India is older than any church in Europe - believe it or not.

The story goes that Thomas Didymus established it in Kerala in 52 AD. He was killed a few years later - and the site where he was killed is, even today, a pilgrimage spot for Indian christians and is called St. Thomas Mound.
_________________________________

As far as Haley is concerned, there was plenty of nastiness thrown in her direction - by other republicans (the sleazebag blogger/political operative to released all those text messages purported to be 'romantic', and another guy who called her a Raghead). But almost every politician is smeared by his or her opponents. It sucks, but it is what it is. As long as people, even unconsciously, give credence to race, religion and color as yardsticks for judging humans, there will be smears based on race, religion and color.
________________________________

As far as the three presidents are concerned - Clinton did a lot to alleviate the distrust Indians had for the USA.

That distrust was primarily because Pakistan, whose intelligence agency ISI has been carrying out different forms of terrorism in India for almost 30 years now, was one of America's staunchest allies - and all the armaments america provided to pakistan to combat the soviets in afghanistan, were in turn, aimed at its eastern border, towards India. 9/11 was the first time America started acknowledging that propping up the pakistani military establishment was probably not such a good idea, because it was that military establishment which was incubating groups like Laskar-E-Toiba and Jamaat-ud-Dawa - which are both al qaeda ancillaries.

On the flip side, America distrusted India because in the summer of 1998 India tested nuclear weapons in the western desert in Rajasthan - and various other cold war hangovers also contributed.

Still, Clinton took the first steps towards fixing that distrust. Bush carried that same idea forward and 9/11 also enabled the american intelligence community to finally, openly acknowledge that pakistan was a breeding ground for terrorism. About 21 years too late, but better late than never.

Also, in the late nineties, India started drastically liberalizing its markets after decades of sluggish growth owing to a corruption laden set of socialist policies. That timing of that coincided with, and enhanced, the growth US-India relationships.

Anyway - all this is to say that as far as policy towards India is concerned, Clinton, Bush and Obama have all been pretty good.

Trooper York said...

You are being very unfair to our President.

He is as American as bean pie.

Revenant said...

The mainstream of the Republican party is conservative. But the Tea Party doesn't [blah blah blah

The Tea Party is more popular than either the Republicans or the Democrats.

You're welcome to maintain the delusion that it is "ultra-right-wing" if you like. All that means is that apparently the majority of Americans are ultra-right-wingers now.

Of course, a person with common sense would immediately think "wait, how can the majority of people be 'ultra right-wing' when 'right-wing' is defined by distance from the political center"? Good question! These people need to stop thinking rationally and start learning to think like a former law student.

edutcher said...

The Mumbai Mirror is taking a cue from the Gray Lady in calling the Tea Partiers ultra-conservative. That's because it has that Bircher feel to it the Lefties always loved.

Sixty Grit said...

Is the phrase "slather us with love" really the best way to describe Clinton's behavior?

According to Kathleen Willey and Juanita Broaddrick, slimed might be more accurate.

Synova said...

Immediately after he was elected I remember Obama doing something or other that seemed dismissive of India as an important ally. I just don't remember the details. If he's suddenly wised up, then maybe he does have reason to go. I don't favor our presidents traveling though. Never have. Going to promote our military industrial base as suppliers to the Indian government is sort of... weird. Almost as weird as the Israeli music-weapons-sale video with the Indian women dancing around an enormous phallic missile while the lyrics go on about protection. Obama going for that purpose is weird because, you know, the military industrial base are the, you know, evil bad guys. Way worse than Wall Street. Right?

"Of course while he's in Mumbai he can work on setting up the call center for ObamaCare."

*snicker*

Synova said...

oh gosh... just realized that the word verification for that was "zings".

Synova said...

LOL! I found it.

http://www.stratpost.com/rafaels-innovative-video-marketing-for-india

Ankur said...

The most dismissive of India, as an ally, was Ronald Reagan and George HW Bush. This was probably because of the cold war, and that meant they had to be nice to pakistan.

Very few things are as dismissive as being nice to a state that has consistently started wars and propagated terrorism (since 1981 or so). (Despite there being ample photographic evidence of terrorist training camps, and such)

Synova said...

If Haley is Sikh descended and Jindal is Hindu descended and both governors are viewed with pride as Indian, it's actually a small drop toward reinforcing Indian national identity in that country.

:-)

Glad we can help.

Ankur said...

Funnily enough, both Jindal's and Haley's roots are in Punjab! I didn't realize that until just now.

kent said...

Two billion dollars. This sojourn to India is costing the American taxpayers two billion dollars.

How can that make any sense to the President and his political advisors at a time of high unemployment and steep budget deficits? It is breathtaking in its arrogance.

"Mmmmmmmm, mmmmmmmm, mmmmmmmm."

Big Mike said...

I've never thought of the Tea Party as ultra-conservative.

Probably the Indians don't realize that the New York Times and Washington Post are ultra-liberal.

What were the "racial digs"? I don't know, and I don't like Indians thinking we were awful to Haley.

I keep hearing about "racial slurs" laid against Haley, but the only one I could track down was someone calling her a "raghead." It's a crude and nasty insult, and uncalled for under any circumstances, but not to my mind a racial insult. And apparently the idiot who called her that couldn't tell the difference between the subcontinent of India and the Arabian Peninsula.

But, yes, we the people of the United States were several degrees more nasty to Haley than is called for in political campaigning.

Mick said...

Interesting. Obama's father was a native Kenyan, and they should have added never an American Citizen, which is why Obama is not a Natural Born Citizen, and not eligible for POTUS. As for Jindal, if he runs for POTUS he will surely be challenged. Many people are now aware that he is also not a Natural Born Citizen, even though born in Louisiana. His parents were only here a short time and were not citizens then. Obama himself will also be challenged if he runs.

Maguro said...

The most dismissive of India, as an ally, was Ronald Reagan and George HW Bush. This was probably because of the cold war, and that meant they had to be nice to pakistan.

Well, yeah, during the cold war India was more or less aligned with the Soviet Union. It was a completely different situation back then.

Ankur said...

Jindal was born in Baton Rouge. He is absolutely, and completely eligible to be POTUS if he elects to run.

Synova said...

I thought we had to be nice to Pakistan because they had The Bomb.

And G.W.Bush went to great lengths to keep the Pakistanis stable and cooperative with plenty of public ass-covering for that cooperation. We supply Afghanistan through there... apparently what works for the Taliban works for us as well. But to supply through Pakistan we have to be able to supply through India. That's somewhat falling apart, now, with at least one really loud and messy disruption of a supply convoy.

Maybe Obama has finally realized that we need to be able to get along with at least ONE of them.

Ankur said...

Big Mike, Nikki Haley was called a 'raghead', which is indeed a racially derogatory term, because she is Sikh in origin. Sikhs wear turbans as well - it is a religious requirement for them.

You might remember that post 9/11, a number of Sikh owned businesses were vandalized because people thought that those "ragheads" were the same "ragheads" that flew those planes.

Ankur said...

..and I am not a Sikh, nor am I a republican - but hearing her insulted like that made my blood boil.

And I might be naive, but I have lived all over America - from the reddest of red states to the bluest of blue states - but NOT ONCE have I been unfairly treated because of my race/color.

..except once, in Phoenix airport, where I was the only one in a long line of people asked to step aside for 'enhanced search'. Not too much of a big deal in any case. Very polite, very professional, very quickly over with.

Synova said...

"Jindal was born in Baton Rouge. He is absolutely, and completely eligible to be POTUS if he elects to run."

Mick is a one note idiot who thinks that it makes any sort of sense to parse the difference between different flavors of persons with citizenship conferred at birth, on the basis of birth alone, in this country made up almost entirely of immigrants, their families and their descendants.

He's unlikely to gain any sort of traction for disenfranchising not only the children born on our soil to naturalized citizens, but those born to Americans abroad, including those abroad in government service including military service.

It's not going to happen. Not that Mick will ever shut up about it.

KS said...

What does Mark Sanford plan to do when Nikki Haley becomes the governor?

rhhardin said...

I must have missed the explanation of this trip.

I take it that styrofoam Greek columns are not out of the question?

Ankur said...

It's India - and its Bombay, the home of bollywood. Styrofoam Columns? Heck yeah.

former law student said...

The Tea Party is more popular than either the Republicans or the Democrats.


Right: Sharron Angle won, Christine O'Donnell won, Joe Miller won, Ken Buck won, well maybe not.

Of course the Tea Party can lay claim to former Congressman Pat Toomey, and former Florida Speaker Marco Rubio. But from where I sit they're establishment Republicans.

Rand Paul, Mike Lee, and Ron Johnson are the only pure Tea Party creatures that I can see.

Just how many Tea Partyists are there, by the way? There are 7.6 million registered Democrats in California alone (5.2 million Republicans).

kent said...

I must have missed the explanation of this trip.

"I took a real shellacking last night."

BJM said...

Jindal's and Haley's roots are in Punjab!

Mmmmm...Saag gosht.

What a bummer, to visit Mumbai and not be able to sample the local fare in khau Galii.

Palladian said...

"I take it that styrofoam Greek columns are not out of the question?"

I think the props are occasional. In this case, Obama's bringing Styrofoam lingams.

Almost Ali said...

I hope Obama plays better in Mumbai than he's playing here. After all, his entrance promises to be spectacular, akin to Genghis Khan and Alexander The Great entering pacified, subservient lands. With rose petals carpeting his occasion.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

What does Mark Sanford plan to do when Nikki Haley becomes the governor?

I heard he was planning to hike the Appalachian Trail.

Ankur said...

"The Tea Party is more popular than either the Republicans or the Democrats"

Actually...revenant makes an interesting point, and at first, it seems to make logical sense. It only breaks down when you distinguish between "Popularity" and "Identification". That is an easy mistake to make when discussing political parties.

Just because someone likes the tea party doesn't make them a tea partier.

I am sure someone has the data - but I feel fairly certain that if you count the numbers of people who self identify as 'republican' and 'democrat' and 'tea partier' - the first two would be higher than the latter. And yet, none of those labels are mutually exclusive.

BJM said...

@fls

Look down ticket.

The Drill SGT said...

Ankur said...Sikhs wear turbans as well - it is a religious requirement for them.

Sikhs are the ones with the neat turbans.

Arabs, well not so much....

Synova said...

"Right: Sharron Angle won, Christine O'Donnell won, Joe Miller won, Ken Buck won, well maybe not.

Of course the Tea Party can lay claim to former Congressman Pat Toomey, and former Florida Speaker Marco Rubio. But from where I sit they're establishment Republicans.
"

If the establishment Republicans won it doesn't mean that the Tea Party didn't do it for them, getting people to the polls is the biggest thing. And the Tea Party really wasn't attempting to put it's own candidates out there as a third party anyway. There were a few cases where a candidate was very much a Tea Party candidate, mostly because the establishment Republican in the primaries was so unpopular. And really, no one expected O'Donnell to win, even if the idea of her pulling it off was a sweet one. Instead of looking at her loss as significant, it might be wiser to look at just how far she managed to rise in the polls in that state and what that means about the weakness of the other side.

My state is sending mostly Democrats back to Congress, but we're a "blue" state with a "red" Governor now.

The establishment Republicans need to think about why they won.

kent said...

Nancy Pelosi Seriously Considers Staying as Democratic Leader

"Cannot... give up... precious... power... my... preciousssssssssssss..."

Marshal said...

Coconuts, hmmm. Brown on the outside, white on the inside.

Has India adopted the left's obsession with race along with its absurd interpretation of the Tea Party as ultra-conservative?

Mick said...

Ankur said...
"Jindal was born in Baton Rouge. He is absolutely, and completely eligible to be POTUS if he elects to run."

And of course you are wrong. Beause his parents were Indian Cizens when Bobby Jinal was born he, like Obama, was born a dual Citizen. The requirement for POTUS is Natural Born Citizen in Article 2, not "Citizen at birth". In dicta the SCOTUS has consistantly over time since the eary 1800s defined Natural Born Citizen as those born in the US of US Citizen parents. Or as Laurence Tribe defined it during the Resolution 511 hearings, "one born within the territory and ALLEGIANCE of a nation". Obama's and Jindals dual allegiance at birth makes them not eligible.

There is no "right" to be President. One must be eligible. A 33 year old cannot be POTUS either. "Natural Born Citizen is a security requirement that seeks to assure to the highest degree, allegiance and attachment to country. Natural Born Citizens are the largest section of the population.

traditionalguy said...

MayBee...Well Maybee, Haley is at least a Methodist Sikh now, so she is good at great covered dish supper recipes. We Christians take on all comers because of the unique Cross substitutionary death and Easter resurrection of God( See, Apostle's Creed). Welcome all Sikhs.

Ankur said...

Marshal - you have to understand that the left/right thing is relative. Relative to europe, democrats are right wingers. Relative to Saudi Arabia, republicans are left wingers.

Don't let a phrase upset you - instead, recognize it as a term that is only relevant to the readers of that newspaper.

When you're on the other side of the world, nuances start disappearing. Birthers, Tea Partiers, 2nd Amendment Solutioners - they all start seeming the same.

Not all tea partiers are birthers. But I bet you, most birthers would gladly self identify as tea partiers. Stuff like that makes branding complex. And with a political movement like the tea party - you cannot really expect to be able to control the brand in a pitch perfect manner.

Marshal said...

KS said...

What does Mark Sanford plan to do when Nikki Haley becomes the governor?"

Ask her to hike the Appalachian trail with him?

Almost Ali said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Trooper York said...

Well when the President gets over to India I want to find the guy who fucked up my website so it was offline for two days right after I was on a nationally televised TV show.

The guy had the balls to say his name was Keith Austin when he sounded just like Apu.

I told him to get his father Steve Austin on the phone because he owed me about six million dollars and he had no idea what I was talking about!

Why can't the Preident look into that for the 200 million a day he is blowing over there!

traditionalguy said...

John @ 5:25 cannot be counted as an Un-enfranchised against either party. He falls into that invisible category of Discouraged Voters.

Mick said...

Synova said...
"Jindal was born in Baton Rouge. He is absolutely, and completely eligible to be POTUS if he elects to run."

Mick is a one note idiot who thinks that it makes any sort of sense to parse the difference between different flavors of persons with citizenship conferred at birth, on the basis of birth alone, in this country made up almost entirely of immigrants, their families and their descendants.

He's unlikely to gain any sort of traction for disenfranchising not only the children born on our soil to naturalized citizens, but those born to Americans abroad, including those abroad in government service including military service.

It's not going to happen. Not that Mick will ever shut up about it.




And of course you are wrong. Despite all the insults, you can never prove that your point is correct. I certainly hope that you aren't a Lawyer!
WHERE does it say that an anchor baby, born in America, is a Natural Born Citizen, eligible to be POTUS?

Almost Ali said...

Obama enters Mumbai; a preview.

Marshal said...

Ankur,

I agree Indians are completely ignorant of American politics. I disagree that anything I wrote indicates I'm upset. Their interpretation is foolish, it doesn't upset me at all.

former law student said...

Obama's been planning this trip for over a month -- here's an article about it from October 7, announcing he will appear at a US-India business summit:

http://www.india-server.com/news/obamas-india-visit-highlights-trade-34162.html

traditionalguy said...

Ankur...You are correct about morphing of political labels. We need DNA categorizing with the application of some lying Statistics to prove anything.

BJM said...

@ankur

I went to the Sactramento Tea Party in 2009 and there were plenty of Dems. The MSM has mis-represented the Tea party movement from the beginning, which only made it stronger.

Smashmouth business-as-usual party politics backfired big time this cycle, yet the political & pundit classes still haven't gotten a clue.

traditionalguy said...

Almost Ali...That Roman Emperor's Triumph fits Obama to the T. And Omama I has been so impatient with this hard to rule Province so far.

MayBee said...

FLS:Obama's been planning this trip for over a month -- here's an article about it from October 7, announcing he will appear at a US-India business summit:

Yeah, I think he planned it soon after it became apparent his team was going to lose big in the midterms. I think he wants to get out of the country and is hoping for some adoring international press.

I find the US-India business summit to be quite awkward, as Obama picked up the Media Matters story about the Chamber of Commerce having foreign members and therefore must be using foreign money in US elections.
Media Matters specifically went after CoC members in India.

I also find it interesting because he steers clear of the multinationals while he's in the US.

Revenant said...

The Mumbai Mirror is taking a cue from the Gray Lady in calling the Tea Partiers ultra-conservative.

Well, bear in mind that the #1 and #3 political parties in India are socialist, and #4 is communist. Their idea of "center" is a lot further to the left than ours.

stevenehrbar said...

I like to phrase it this way, for maximum effect:

"When Haley takes office, 40% of Deep South governors will have been persons born to non-Christian Punjabis."

sunsong said...

I would love it if Obama spent the next two years giving really fantastic speeches in every major city in the world. It would be well worth the money, imo.

former law student said...

The USIBC partners with the American Chamber of Commerce in India (USCoC affiliate), but is not the same organization. Other partners include the Confederation of Indian Industry (CII), the Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry (FICCI), National Association of Software and Service Companies (NASSCOM), The Indus Entrepreneurs (TiE), and the Indo-American Chamber of Commerce (IACC).

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

I'd never put that together. Two Indian-American governors now. Interesting. Both Republicans, for what it's worth.

Where were their families situated on the caste system, I wonder?

blake said...

$200 million here.

$200 million there.

Pretty soon you're talking some real money.

former law student said...

he steers clear of the multinationals while he's in the US.


Tata and Infosys?

former law student said...

Sikhs consider themselves to be above any Hindus, I know that.

Revenant said...

Right: Sharron Angle won, Christine O'Donnell won, Joe Miller won, Ken Buck won, well maybe not.

Would you like me to list the 275 Democrats who lost their races?

Or would you prefer that I just politely overlook your attempt to claim that "four Tea Partiers lost" means "the Tea Party is less popular than the Democrats and Republicans", so we can move on to a topic less embarrassing for you?

I'm cool with either approach.

Ankur said...

Sikh's don't have a caste system, so that doesn't apply to Haley.

Jindal, by his surname, would most likely be a vaishya, which had traditionally been the communities excelling in business.

Of course, I am assuming that your question above was a sincere desire to know.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Oh great. The "Birthers" chime in:

one born within the territory and ALLEGIANCE of a nation". Obama's and Jindals dual allegiance at birth makes them not eligible.

How the fuck can one have allegiance to two countries ("dual allegiance") while simultaneously lacking allegiance to one of them?

Thwack.

Ankur said...

But, in truth, seeing as both of them are christian - they don't fall anywhere in the caste system. It doesn't apply to them.

Jim said...

The most dismissive of India, as an ally, was Ronald Reagan and George HW Bush. This was probably because of the cold war, and that meant they had to be nice to pakistan.

That's unfair without proper context. India's relations with the US were frosty until the end of the Cold War because THEY WERE A SOVIET CLIENT STATE. They bought their armaments from the USSR. They had a socialist government, etc. Building up Pakistan was as much about balancing out the Soviet influence in India as it was about anything else. To claim otherwise is an attempt to rewrite history.

India itself is responsible for much of the thaw in relations. As it turned its eyes outward in search of economic growth, they liberalized politically and economically while the resources from their Soviet patrons dried up. They wanted better relations with the US because they wanted our money. We want new markets and a counterbalance to China in Asia.

It's a win-win situation for both countries. That Obama is viewed so negatively in the Mumbai Mirror as being there solely to get some defense contracts signed is not a good sign AT ALL.

Yet another foreign policy failure from the smartest president EVAAH!

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Of course, I am assuming that your question above was a sincere desire to know.

I'm probably one of the few people regularly checking in here who actually desires to learn anything new in life.

The reason I was interested in knowing is because coming from a higher caste goes against the self-serving Republican narrative of "making it on one's own/pulling oneself up by one's bootstraps" - immigrant status notwithstanding. It also makes someone more likely to seek to preserve class distinctions in their own politics.

Anyway, thanks for the answer.

Jim said...

I'm probably one of the few people regularly checking in here who actually desires to learn anything new in life.

Helpful hint: declaring yourself the most intellectually curious person in the room actually does more to COUNTER your argument than it does to make it.

A TRULY intellectually curious person would presume that there is far more knowledge or curiosity than they that which they are currently aware of.

Your statement disproves itself. It serves only as proof of how undeserving you are of the high regard in which you hold yourself.

Marshal said...

"I'm probably one of the few people regularly checking in here who actually desires to learn anything new in life."

Don't forget you're also humble, generous, and kind. Seriously, what an asshole.

Ankur said...

Yes, you are exactly right regarding the context.

However, going further back in history - in the 1950s, India was aligned with america. In fact, India and the US worked closely in several intelligence projects aimed at China. America also pressured the british to vacate India. Thus, in the early days of India's nationhood, it trusted America.

Then, in 1965 and 1971 India was attacked twice by Pakistan. Pakistan's entire army was at that time equipped with american equipment - which was GIVEN to them (not sold)

Where would YOU go, to buy arms to defend yourself, if the leader of the free world was arming your enemy - simply because that enemy, pakistan, was useful in the afghanistan context? Remember, when pakistan was given two battalions of patton tanks, India tried to BUY similar weaponry from America but was rebuffed because Pakistan got upset at the idea.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

A TRULY intellectually curious person would presume that there is far more knowledge or curiosity than they that which they are currently aware of.

It doesn't mean they haven't figured out where to find more of it. If it did, that would mean they are incapable of learning something quite valuable: That some sources do provide more sources and arguments from which to learn than others.

So, I have noted the logical inconsistency that disproves your own statement. Sorry, I sure hope that doesn't demean your own high sense of self-regard.

Moneyrunner said...

Is this a visit or an invasion? "34 warships sent from US for Obama visit"
As President Obama begins his 10 day - $200 million a day taxpayer funded - tour:


Press Trust of India reports that ...
He [Obama] will also be protected by a fleet of 34 warships, including an aircraft carrier, which will patrol the sea lanes off the Mumbai coast during his two-day stay there beginning Saturday. The measure has been taken as Mumbai attack in 2008 took place from the sea.


Arrangements have been put in place for emergency evacuation, if needed.


Obama is expected to fly by a helicopter -- Marine One -- from the city airport to the Indian Navy's helibase INS Shikra at Colaba in south Mumbai.


From there, he will drive down in Lincoln Continental -- the Presidential limousine -- to the nearby the Taj Hotel.


Two jets, armed with advanced communication and security systems, and a fleet of over 40 cars will be part of Obamas convoy.


Around 800 rooms have been booked for the President and his entourage in Taj Hotel and Hyatt.


Gary V comments:
34 US Navy ships, 571 rooms at the most expensive hotel in India, 3000 government employees, 4 helicopters 18 jets, Mooshell and the kids for a 3 day trip? This village idiot is abusing the US Govt system. They are a sham and a disgrace to the taxpaying working class American. Make him commute in a Tata! How much you want to bet he is there to pitch the SEIU to the off shore call center workers hired by US companies?
According to the UK Telegraph:
Coconuts removed from trees in preparation for Barack Obama's India trip
Mr Obama will arrive in India on Saturday for the first leg of an Asian tour.


But as well as the usual security measures that come with welcoming a a visiting dignitary, Indian authorities have decided to go one step further, by removing all natural threats to the president as well.




All coconuts around the city's Gandhi museum, one of Mr Obama's stops in the city, are being taken down.


Mani Bhavan, where Mahatma Gandhi stayed during his freedom struggle against the British, is among five places the US president is visiting in Mumbai.


"We told the authorities to remove the dry coconuts from trees near the building. Why take a chance?" Mani Bhavan's executive secretary, Meghshyam Ajgaonkar, told the BBC.


The "over the top" size and cost of this trip is beginning to seep into the MSM and political debate after getting lots of attention in the Internet.


From another article in the Press Trust of India:


Representative Michele Bachmann, a Republican from Minnesota fresh off a victory in her closely watched re-election bid, slammed the White House for the "massive overspending" for Obama's maiden visit to India.
Meanwhile from the Old Grey Whore (NY Times) ... crickets chirping. Enter "Obama trip cost" in the Washington Post search box and ... nothing, nada. The Wall Street Journal? Silence.


And what is this trillion dollar trip expected to produce? Barun S. Mitra in the Wall Street Journal:
Indians are not expecting much from the visit of President Barack Obama this week. Rather, given the range of issues on which the two governments diverge today, they are just hoping that no new conflict arises. Neither side seems capable of the leadership that made the visit of George W. Bush in 2006 such a success....

But don't fret, like Michelle's extravagant trip to Spain earlier this year, it will be a swell vacation for the Obamas and the village of hangers-on they're taking along. After this, I'll never be possible to criticize congressional junkets again. Everything else - all other royal progresses in the past will pale in comparison. Over-the-top does not even begin to describe it.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Don't forget you're also humble, generous, and kind. Seriously, what an asshole.

That sounds like a very insecure thing to say.

Although I like the preamble. It reminds me of what I learned as a Boy Scout.

MayBee said...

The USIBC partners with the American Chamber of Commerce in India (USCoC affiliate), but is not the same organization.

Yeah, well my point was Media Matters- whom the President obviously pays attention to- was yelling India!India!India!

Just as Obama's own people did when they called Hillary Clinton (D-Punjab).

Barbara Boxer ran an ad against Fiorina saying India!India!India!

So it's kind of awkward and fascinating that he's going to India now. His left base thinks India exists to suck jobs and H1B Visas from the US.

Sixty Grit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Revenant said...

The really funny thing about Ritmo's last post is that he starts off patting himself on the back for being "one of the few people [...] who actually desires to learn anything new in life"... and then, in his very next statement, explains that he only asked because he was hoping to confirm his preconceptions about Republicans.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

and then, in his very next statement, explains that he only asked because he was hoping to confirm his preconceptions about Republicans.

And what, Mr Revenant, leads to believe that I wasn't open to having that idea disproved with the answer?

Intellectual curiosity does not mean a disinterest in actually learning something. It also doesn't mean lacking preconceptions based on what they've already learned.

Let's start trying to make sense.

Maguro said...

Ritmo, how was the Rally to Restore Sanity? Did it have any effect on you?

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Not really. Although I'm glad to know that what Stewart stands for is gaining respect and adherents.

Does that bother you, Maguro?

former law student said...

Or would you prefer that I just politely overlook your attempt to claim that "four Tea Partiers lost" means "the Tea Party is less popular than the Democrats and Republicans", so we can move on to a topic less embarrassing for you?


If the Tea Party were more popular than the Democrats and Republicans, wouldn't they have elected more than 9 or even 13percent of the Senators? Thirteen Democrats won, twenty Establishment Republicans won, three Tea Partyists won, one race undecided.

How do you measure popularity?

Revenant said...

Where would YOU go, to buy arms to defend yourself, if the leader of the free world was arming your enemy - simply because that enemy, pakistan, was useful in the afghanistan context?

It is a little more complicated than that. India was a neutral nation at that time, and had ties with the USSR that were at least as strong as its ties with the USA. India was already making use of Soviet military technology. There was a legitimate concern that any American military technology sold to India would end up in Soviet hands.

Revenant said...

And what, Mr Revenant, leads to believe that I wasn't open to having that idea disproved with the answer?

You're you?

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Actually, they might have formed their own party.

Of course, they didn't. And they never intended to. They're just the Republicans' way of letting the far-right base run wild and re-assert the sense that they should be the ones running the show.

Sometimes learning requires making an inference or a hypothesis and daring someone to prove it wrong. Of course, that approach tends to upset more people than pretending that your mind is so open that you're willing to let your brains fall out of it.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

You're you?

So you admit you had no intention of proving me wrong and instead re-assert your own prejudice.

Convincing.

Penny said...

"There’s nothing quite as American as an American pie."

I'm dyslectic, so that suits me just fine.

former law student said...

Barbara Boxer ran an ad against Fiorina saying India!India!India!


Not one I ever saw. Every ad was about Carly's sending 30,000 jobs to China.

China!China!China!

former law student said...

The Mumbai Mirror is not looking forward to one aspect of the GOP House win:

LEADING India baiter Dan Burton, the US Republican Representative for Indiana’s 5th congressional district, is set to become the chairman of the House Sub-Committee on the Middle East and South Asia of the House of Representatives Foreign Affairs Committee.

Burton, 72, who has been serving in the Congress since 1983, has achieved considerable notoriety in India for his consistent criticism of that country, and has even argued in favour of US intervention in Kashmir.

Penny said...

It is MY pie? Right?

Oh, come on now!

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

I never saw "American Pie" but the sequel was ok.

former law student said...

Neither side seems capable of the leadership that made the visit of George W. Bush in 2006 such a success

Yes, George Bush cut a deal to supply India with nuclear fuel and technology -- even though India never signed the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty. Which kinda pissed off Iran, which has signed the Nonproliferation Treaty but oh well.

traditionalguy said...

Lesson for my friend Ritmo: My family has been around many Indian Doctors as clients and their children who were raised in the same schools with mine(Woodward Academy). I have heard their comments about one another for over 25 years. It reveals a community trust among most, with some outliers that don't trust anyone over at the Temple. The # 1 characteristic is the need to always be thought of as trustworthy by others, no matter how much some get away doing to others just because they are too trusted. If one Indian's family knew another Indian's family from the same village in India, then It is a part of their faith that all will work out in some way since God approves of loyalty to neighbors in need. They also tell me. "Trad Guy we believe in Jesus too, and we also believe in anyone's choices of gods from among 900 other gods". They are tolerant to a T. But they know the value of having a faith in God and think anyone without one is strange and must be untrustworthy. Very few in the USA are from High Castes...why should they come over here and be treated the same as merchants and untouchables. The few Brahmins or high castes we do meet basically avoid direct contact with spiritually impure Americans.

MayBee said...

FLS: Here's one:


This one is China!India!(Poland)

Revenant said...

If the Tea Party were more popular than the Democrats and Republicans, wouldn't they have elected more than 9 or even 13percent of the Senators?

It is a fact that the Tea Party got a higher approval rating from voters than either political party did. So the correct way to phrase your question is:

Given that the Tea Party is more popular than the Republicans or the Democrats, why did they not do better in the election?

Is that what you meant to ask?

Ankur said...

Traditionalguy, you are talking about a generation of Indians who I don't even recognize anymore.

I am not saying you are wrong. I am just saying - things are very different with my generation of Indians.

I could give you some very vivid counter-examples to the bottom half of your post - but that would require me revealing too much about myself, which I am not interested in doing online. But yeah..among recent immigrants, things are different.

Ankur said...

but the part about believing in Jesus, as well as a thousand other Gods..that part is exactly correct. In general.

Penny said...

Sheesh, you need to SEE American Pie?

Ritmo Brasileiro said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ritmo Brasileiro said...

I see Indians all over, usually as physicians and/or merchants. Sometimes cabbies. Trust is a good thing. But what I don't understand is how merchants came to be identified as "lower" class. I guess there are all kinds of businesses, and all kinds of success. But don't you think a good number of business owners make at least about what physicians and lawyers make? In the U.S. we wouldn't classify that as "lower class" and I think in India they're starting to understand that, too. It's probably why, as I just read, that the biggest push for capitalist policies in India have come from the class that Ankur identified Jindal as.

PatCA said...

I really don't like it that he's staying in the same hotel that was...you know what happened. And with his family!

(The pie sounds awful. It will require a lot of diplomacy to eat a bite.)

Ankur said...

In the earlier vedic period, castes were essentially careers handed down father/mother to son/daughter. It wasn't a "higher" vs "lower" thing.

In the latter vedic period, the whole system was corrupted - the "deciders" were the brahmins who were the founts of knowledge and wisdom. Naturally they declared themselves to be top dog. At the time, India was a collection of small nation states, warring and coexisting. So, next on the totem pole were, of course, the warlords, known as "Kshatrias". The businessmen became #3 almost by default. And everyone else became #4.

So, a social system which wasn't intended to be a stratification - became an evil system of discrimination.

Revenant said...

Which kinda pissed off Iran, which has signed the Nonproliferation Treaty but oh well.

Iran was so pissed off when Bush snubbed them that they traveled backwards in time so they could start violating the treaty before Bush even entered office.

That's how badly Bush screwed up: enough to warp the entire space-time continuum. And you thought global warming was bad.

Ankur said...

Interestingly, the push for capitalism in India came from PV Narasimha Rao, the then prime minister - a brahmin, and Manmohan Singh, the then Finance Minister - a sikh. Manmohan Singh is now the prime minister.

And the political party they belong to is the one someone identified above as a socialist leaning party - which is correct, if you look at India's vastly different political and social realities through an american looking glass.

ricpic said...

I must have missed the explanation for this trip.

As far as I know there hasn't been one. Unless we take the White House's word for it that Obama must see some kind of Indian religious light ceremony before he dies.

master cylinder said...

are you f*#@king kidding me???????
isnt big C ultra conservative what tea is all about?

Revenant said...

Ankur, wasn't the INC openly socialist up until the 90s? To the extent that it embraces the free market, my understanding is that this is a relatively new thing. Sort of the same thing the Chinese communists did during the same time period -- "we'll tolerate capitalism because it makes us money".

Penny said...

I couldn't POSSIBLY show my American Pie to just anyone...

Too shy.

My President, on the other hand?

Touche'.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Hey, I'm not just anyone, Penny.

Revenant said...

are you f*#@king kidding me???????
isnt big C ultra conservative what tea is all about?


Is it conservative to believe the government shouldn't take our money and give it to the same people who got us into this mess?

If so then, yeah, it's definitely very conservative.

Ankur said...

Yes, Revenant.

They finally moved away from those failed policies in the late nineties.

There are other socialistic policies which are still in place - because they have been successful in the Indian context. Those policies were kept unchanged by the BJP (the #2 party you identified as NON-socialist) when they were in power as well.

WV: Daciabl - a measure of amplitude of political conversation in the United States in election years.

stevenehrbar said...

Where would YOU go, to buy arms to defend yourself, if the leader of the free world was arming your enemy - simply because that enemy, pakistan, was useful in the afghanistan context?

By the time Afghanistan was an issue, Pakistan had been a US ally for decades. India chose to reject the United States in the 1950s, while Pakistan chose to embrace the US. Pakistan joined CENTO and SEATO against the USSR in 1955. That same year, Nehru and Kruschev formed the less formal Soviet-Indian alliance; by 1960 India had received more military and economic assistance from the USSR than the Communist Chinese.

The US subsequently supported its ally against the Soviet Union's ally during the Cold War. Which is one of those "Duh" things.

Big Mike said...

@Ankur, I'm an atheist myself, but I am familiar with Sikhism. I was very upset to learn, shortly after 9-11-2001, that a Sikh had been murdered in the Southwest (Texas, I think) under the mistaken assumption that he was an Arab. I am perfectly aware that Sikhs have been fighting Muslims since before the first Christian Crusade.

Waheguru ji ka kalsa

(I hope I spelled that correctly.)

Ankur said...

Afghanistan didn't become an issue in 1979 when Russia finally sent in the tanks. Afghanistan became an issue in 1924, when the russian occupation of Tajikistan made it the last buffer between communist expansion and british india.

At this time, the "great game" involving the british and the russians in Afghanistan had played out. Britain had tried until the late 19th century to bring Afghanistan under its control. Russia had been trying to control Afghanistan even before the bolshevik takeover.

So, no. Afghanistan and access to it through Pakistan didn't suddenly become an issue in 1979.

Chip Ahoy said...

When I first heard they were cutting down the coconuts the thought occurred that would be one way to disguise a bomb.

You do know the 200 million a day price tag is bogus. Per FactCheck, the war in Afghanistan is 190 million a day. As extravagant and profligate as this trip is, it still is not more expensive than a war. I do wish Obama and Michelle will end this trip-related one-upmanship, it's getting scary. And I'm not having another word about my own puny pathetic carbon footprint.

garage mahal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Synova said...

Incidentally, about the coconuts...

I thought it was pretty funny in the PI when the neighbor girl explained that you had to be careful about falling coconuts. Her house had a row of hugely tall coconut trees with huge coconuts on them. The only way to get them down unless they fell on their own would be expensive.

Trimming the coconut trees is probably done regularly, and something done now instead of later for an important visit.

pm317 said...

@traditionalguy: The few Brahmins or high castes we do meet basically avoid direct contact with spiritually impure Americans.
-----------

Not sure it is because of high caste or spiritually impure. It is more about food habits and I would venture a guess that the people you talk about are probably 'pure' vegetarians.

garage mahal said...

The Tea Party is more popular than either the Republicans or the Democrats.

The Tea Party is the Republican party, just like the "The Surge" was still the Iraq War. Just re-named, because of the high unpopularity of it. "We're the Tea Party now!" It is a corporate initiated and funded media driven movement always minuscule in proportion to its size. The real dupes of the movement are the ones that organize and show up at the rallies and think that their interests and the interests of elite billionaires match up perfectly with their own. You never see millionaires in the crowd at Tea Party rallies, after all. The Republican party today is basically a collection of trade representatives for 300 big international companies. And that's it. They offer really nothing to average America, are openly hostile to half of it, will openly say they take benefits away from you, and yet people still vote for them.

Maguro said...

Great rant, garage. You should e-mail it to MSNBC, maybe they'll give you a show.

Almost Ali said...

You do know the 200 million a day price tag is bogus.

Too late, the number (and Navy) has already been floated. It also makes sense, I mean, we're talking about royalty here! In fact, only Barney Frank deserves a bigger entrance.

So, for those who missed it, see Obama enters Mumbai; a preview.

Lgbpop said...

George Bush NEVER went anywhere on diplomacy with a fleet of warships. I'm tired of the stupid statements from the leftists! Don't ANY of you know what the truth is any more??

Somewhat relatedly, it's really starting to annoy me how the leftists insist on thinking - and stating - what the Tea Party is when they aren't part of it. Very similar in attitude to their telling Republicans what they (Republicans) need to do to be successful. What makes them think we care what their opinion is? They certainly don't care about those of anyone else.

The Tea Party is not a party as such, with a defined hierarchy - it's a philosophy, which is shared by people of varying degrees of social inclination. What we have in common is strictly financial - the conviction that this government has no need to suck up so much of the private capital from our economy and redirect it into non-productive pursuits simply to make itself feel good.

When a leftist attacks the Tea Party as an organization, he can say he's attacking the leaders who don't look out for the members. Funny, but that's projection - that's the definition of the Democrat party. The reality is: average Joes and Janes ARE the Tea Party. Us. The average, usually complacent, somnolent citizens who keep going along with yet another hare-brained scheme because the proponents must have something good in mind. When the leftists attack the Tea Party, they attack mainstream American citizens - their fountain of funding.

I'm tired of being insulted. I'm tired of being told I'm only good enough to pay the bills for largesse directed at someone else. I'm tired of being told that my Public Administration degree doesn't qualify me for public administration because it didn't come from a leftist school. I'm tired of being called "ultra-conservative" when wild-eyed socialists are referred to by the MSM as "moderates;" that's too much of a distortion for me to tolerate anymore. The leftists who are slowly taking over this country and stifling every last iota of liberty are the enemy, Mr. Obama, not the taxpayers. And I intend to take part in reversing this abominable trend.

Put THAT in your bong and smoke it!

David said...

Here in racist, reactionary, fundamentalist South Carolina nobody paid attention to Haley's ethnic origins, and the allegations that she had affairs were seen as annoying, ungallant and irrelevant. The stupid "raghead" comment by one idiot state senator was condemned by nearly everyone, and promptly forgotten.

Pogo said...

Obama takes up the Weak Man’s burden.

traditionalguy said...

to you about the few Hindu Priestly types you meet is that there is a real presence of a spiritual wall separating them from interactions with only people, people. Look for the Red Dot on their forehead that they call their Third Eye, that they use to get directions from. It is best just to give them their space. Hand shaking is also a disfavored practice by most India born Indians, but we do it to them anyway. The ones born and educated in Atlanta seem perfectly well adjusted; such as, Sanjay Gupta who appears on CNN giving medical news when he is not practicing and teaching neurosurgery at Emory University School of Medicine.

Jim said...

It doesn't mean they haven't figured out where to find more of it. If it did, that would mean they are incapable of learning something quite valuable: That some sources do provide more sources and arguments from which to learn than others.

You do, of course, realize that this statement has NOTHING to do with your original claim that you are one of the few people who desires to learn anything new?

Once again, you reiterate how intellectually inferior you actually are no matter your illusions to the contrary.

You screwed up in the first instance. You doubled down on stupid with your second. Are you REALLY interested in further embarrassing yourself with a third swing and a miss?

MadisonMan said...

OKay, she's an Indian American. I've heard Haley referred to as an American Indian as well, which is something completely different to me (= Native American), and it was in the context of being the first Indian American governor, and I thought of Jindal as was confused.

Bad reporting confuses me.

P.S.: I'm amazed that this trip is costing hard-working American Taxpayers $4 billion. That's what's been reported on the internet. Look it up!

Jim said...

The Republican party today is basically a collection of trade representatives for 300 big international companies.

That's not true. The Republican Party is actually a partnership between the Illuminati and the Bilderbergers. The trade representatives for the 300 big international companies are there only to sell conspiracy nutjobs their tinfoil hats: thereby making money even off their opposition. It's PURE GENIUS!!

Everyone else? Pod people. Not even actual human beings. Really. And that includes your Leftist friends. Think about it. How do you KNOW they're really human? You don't. They've been switched out with aliens. Don't let on that I told you though.

If they find out that I've let out all the secrets they'l...ARRAGHGAHA!! NO!! DON'T TAKE ME TO CHENEY!!!!! HEEEL.......

MadisonMan said...

The pie sounds awful. It will require a lot of diplomacy to eat a bite.

It needs to be slathered in whipped cream.

Ankur said...

Trad Guy, I am an Indian, born in India. And I will gladly shake your hand. As will pretty much anyone in my family or the Indians in friend circle

garage mahal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
garage mahal said...

Everyone else? Pod people

I meant to say Republicans in Congress are trade representatives of 300 companies. The rest are you are just unpaid reps doing it for free. Or Pod People, same thing.

peter hoh said...

I loved reading the Indian newspapers during my visit. Not sure I can put my finger on why. Something to do with the exuberant quality of the writing. Anyone used to Indian papers must find our papers boring and stilted.

Over and over, I'd read some casual statement about the U.S. and think, "I've never thought about it that way." Similar to Althouse's reaction to the line in the quoted article about the Tea Party being "ultra-conservative."

Jim said...

The rest are you are just unpaid reps doing it for free. Or Pod People, same thing.

Not just us, garage. It's your neighbors too. Even the ones who nod when you start ranting about aliens and conspiracies and how everyone is out to get you.

Yep. Them too. Trust no one. Don't go to sleep. That's when they come for you.

You nod off. Next thing you know, you wake up and you believe that you have the right to run your own life without some half-witted government bureaucracy buried halfway up your colon trying to run every aspect of your life so that wannabe little Stalins like you can get their rocks off taking other people's money and spending it on their pet social engineering project which inevitably leads to even greater levels of misery and pain which require yet another round of social engineering experimentation, more generational theft and a more powerful federal bureaucracy.

Watch out, garage. They're coming for you. Don't get sleepy....

former law student said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
former law student said...

I see the source of Rev's confusion.

The measure of popularity of a political movement is the number of votes it receives, not some asserted "approval rating."

Approval is not correlated with popularity. People might highly approve of Rev donating a kidney to his brother, but that would not make kidney donation a popular activity. Not like bowling or going to the movies popular.

Nor is popularity correlated with approval. Getting drunk and having sex with someone you met for the first time at a party is popular, at least for a certain age group, but it doesn't enjoy universal approval.

Got it?

But I confess I would like to see some support for the notion that the Tea Party movement enjoys voter approval.

Revenant said...

The Tea Party is the Republican party, just like the "The Surge" was still the Iraq War.

The Tea Party is a political movement comprised largely, but not entirely, of disaffected Republicans.

Revenant said...

The measure of popularity of a political movement is the number of votes it receives

What a cute thing to believe. So if the Tea Party won half its Senate races and the Democrats lost 2/3 of theirs, what does that tell us about their relative popularity? :)

BJM said...

@fls

If naval ships, including a CVN, are involved the planning has been much longer than a month.

A month isn't enough time to execute the forward logistics, let alone button everything down.

You can't plan a rock concert in a month...or a large wedding.

I'm guessing this was scheduled as an exchange before Dr. Singh visited the US and the logistics have been in play 5-6 months.

former law student said...

OK: The Tea Party is more popular than either the Democratic or Republican Parties in 5 of 36states.

kent said...

Because frequently, an MSNBC host will gibber something so agonizingly, balls-out stooopid, it all but fractures the space-time continuum as a result:

Chris Matthews: Let’s face it, the GOP forced Obama to the left.

BJM said...

Awkward!

Jim said...

OK: The Tea Party is more popular than either the Democratic or Republican Parties in 5 of 36states.

How many Republican senators had to defend their seats this year? How many lost?

How many Democratic senators had to defend their seats this year? How many lost?

Any time you want to compare and contrast results, I'd be happy to help you with the math.

And while I'm at it, I'll helpfully remind you that the number of seats Democrats have to defend in 2012 and 2014 far outnumber those that have to be defended by Republicans. And that many of those seats that Democrats have to defend are in deep red states.

In what was the most favorable electoral math year for Democrats in the Senate in the next 6, Democrats lost 6 seats. And they're still going to be stuck with Harry Reid like an albatross around their necks at least through 2012. Can you remind me what his favorable/unfavorable numbers are again?

Remind me again how many Senate seats the Leftist "grassroots movement" spearheaded by MoveOn.org and their allies were able to capture at the very height of their influence. What was that you said? ZERO? Ding Ding Ding, we have a WINNER!!!

But yeah...the Tea Party has had no appreciable influence, and the Democratic Party is FAR more popular than those crazy, racist, scared idiots who just whooped their arses up and down the electoral map in federal, state and local elections - even exceeding the Democratic wave following Watergate.

Think about that for a moment: the policies pursued by the Obama/Pelosi/Reid triumvirate were more disastrous electorally than WATERGATE.

But you continue enjoying your unspeakable acts with your poultry....

BJM said...

Unfookingbelievable.

Mick said...

Ritmo Brasileiro said...
"Oh great. The "Birthers" chime in:

one born within the territory and ALLEGIANCE of a nation". Obama's and Jindals dual allegiance at birth makes them not eligible.

How the fuck can one have allegiance to two countries ("dual allegiance") while simultaneously lacking allegiance to one of them?

Thwack."


And of course your logic leaves a lot to be desired. American law recognizes that multiple allegiances exist, and frowns on them. To be a Natural Born Citizen you must be born w/ singular allegiance. Bobby Jidal, born in La. to Indian citizens, was born both a citizen of India and the US. His allegiance owed to india at birth disqualifies him from eligibility as a natural born Citizen. His allegiance to India expired when he did not claim Indian citizenship at the age of majority.
Obama admits his birth allegiance to Britain at "Fight the Smears":

“When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children."

What SCOTUS case says that anchor babies (not implying that Obama or Jindal was an anchor baby, but, by your logic, if anyone born in the US is a natural born citizen, then anchor babies would be eligible) are natural born Citizens, eligible to be POTUS? HINT: There isn't one.

Anthony said...

If I am correct, come January there will be three times as many minority governors that are Republicans (New Mexico, South Carolina, and Lousiana) than Democrats. Four times if you count Mitch Daniels (who is of part Arab background).

Roger J. said...
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Roger J. said...

Late to this (most interesting) thread--and I will defer to Ankur's take, but it seems to me that discsussions of the caste system should be muted as India has adopted many aspects of modern wwestern society from the British Raj. Anyone taking a decent history course in world civilizations should have learned the basics of the vedic India; where we fall short, as non-Indians, is learning about modern India.

India is, IMO, the Asian superpower we need to have on our side--they share our language, and many of our values. They are the counterweight to moslem extremism on the one hand and China's military and economic power on the other. To the extent Mr Obama's visit reinforces this relationship, good on him.

DaveW said...

"Obama's been planning this trip for over a month -- here's an article about it from October 7, announcing he will appear at a US-India business summit"

Maybe he can do for Indian businesses all the wonderful things he's done for business in the U.S.

Marshal said...

"Ritmo Brasileiro said... That sounds like a very insecure thing to say."

This is certainly consistent with your well established habit of interpreting everything to bolster your own self image. It's a little light on reality though.

Sixty Grit said...
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Daniel Fielding said...

@Big Mike- it is "Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa" :)

I am an Indian, born in Stockholm, and raised in Australia and Indian before I landed up in Ann Arbor.


Nikky Haley is from an Amritdhari Sikh family, thus considered "high caste", even though, Sikhism was areligion formed to reject the oppressive rules and traditions of traditional Brahminical Hiduism.
Bobby Jindal's last name would suggest that he comes from the merchant caste, though there are exceptions, so I am not 100% sure.

Big Mike said...

@Daniel, thank you, but I grew up in a USA where the entire concept of "caste" is anathema, despite the best efforts of liberals in general and the MSM in particular to create a modern American caste system based on where you went to college (Brahmin caste: the Ivies, Stanford, and UC Berkeley; next caste down includes Duke, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, UC Santa Cruz, probably Wisconsin, and a bunch of small liberal arts colleges).

former law student said...

Unfookingbelievable.

I wouldn't believe it.

The Times of India -- the most respected paper in India -- says that the Gandhi Home Museum has received a coat of paint, and has been fumigated for Obama's visit. Neighbors will have to park their cars elsewhere over Friday and Saturday.

And yes, the coconuts have been removed, lest they fall on someone's head.

No magical tunnels that can be erected in an hour -- that's tabloid fodder.

smrstrauss said...

Re: "Obama's father was a native Kenyan, and they should have added never an American Citizen, which is why Obama is not a Natural Born Citizen, and not eligible for POTUS. "

The reason that Obama's election was confirmed by the US Congress unanimously is that not one of them--not one in 535 members--believed your theory that Obama's father's citizenship affects his Natural Born Citizen status.

“Natural born citizen. Persons who are born within the jurisdiction of a national government, i.e. in its territorial limits, or those born of citizens temporarily residing abroad.” — Black’s Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition.

And such prominent conservative Senators who are also lawyers as Orren Hatch and Lindsay Graham also say that a Natural Born Citizen is simply one who was born in the USA:

Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC), said:

“Every child born in the United States is a natural-born United States citizen except for the children of diplomats.” (December 11, 2008 letter to constituent)

Senator Orrin G. Hatch (R-UT), said:

“What is a natural born citizen? Clearly, someone born within the United States or one of its territories is a natural born citizen.” (Senate Judiciary Committee hearing hearing on OCTOBER 5, 2004)

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