November 2, 2010

"Kennedy-Sorensen Dems Wouldn't Recognize Obama-Reid-Pelosi."

"[Sorensen] gave voice to America's historic aspiration for greatness and achievement. He believed in an America that was 'second to none,' and that dared to dream of doing big and important things."

Says John R. Guardiano.

Oh, but Obama-Reid-Pelosi did plenty of big and important things. That's what really hurt.

132 comments:

traditionalguy said...

Yes, the sinking of the Titanic was big and important too. The traditionalists that had fought a Depression and been in a massive 4 year total War and then seen Nuclear Fission Bombs going off knew what mattered was victory. A simple concept that escapes King Obama I is that there is no second place. All of his Bowing Down only gets us attacked sooner rather than later. Not that there would have been anything left to save once the great CO2 is pollution Robbery of all robberies had finished us off before real scientists began to ask questions.

Mick said...

No, they did Big and Destructive things.

garage mahal said...

That's some beautiful concern trolling Althouse, using a dead person as a prop. Really, comparing the man who got us to the moon to the party who thinks we can't build a tunnel? What are you people smoking.

shoutingthomas said...

Who said that government is supposed to be the agency of "big and important things?"

Daniel Fielding said...

The Kennedy -Sorensen democrats were proud to be American, but the Obama-Pelosi-Reid Democrats and their followers seem ashamed to be Americans. As a grateful immigrant to the USA, living in Ann's hometown of Ann Arbor, I am constantly amazed at how disdainful and critical of America the people on the liberal-left of the political spectrum can be. They actually HATE AMERICA!!!!

Discuss amongst yourselves.

traditionalguy said...

Garage...I knew JFK, and you are no JFK. Go take some stress relief Rx and sleep it off. The sun will rise tomorrow.

Randy said...

That is about as true (and worthwhile) as saying GOP leaders from that era wouldn't recognize the current leaders of the GOP.

HDHouse said...

well Shouting Thomas when it comes to big and important things we will not be looking in your direction.

why don't you make list for us of "big and important things" that we do as a nation and that rally the nation AND meet with your approval. Would you do that for us so we have some idea where you are coming from other than the otherside of a moat.

PETER V. BELLA said...

Reid/Pelosi/Obama did big important things to the American people, not for them.

kent said...

using a dead person as a prop.

Ah, yes. The Wellstone funeral. What golden memories that brings back, eh...?

Bitch, please.

shoutingthomas said...

why don't you make list for us of "big and important things" that we do as a nation and that rally the nation AND meet with your approval.

Well, I'll start out with one of my "big and important things."

When I was young, I was purchasing agent for a business that developed one of the great supercomputers.

It was an astonishing feat, HenHouse.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Really, comparing the man who got us to the moon to the party who thinks we can't build a tunnel?

Kennedy was President in 1969?

But he did manage to get us to Vietnam.

Sixty Grit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
1jpb said...

Political manipulation by a con is so tasteful when it's based on the recently dead.

Or, we could stick to reality.

garage mahal said...

"Reality"

Booooo!!!!

John said...

"why don't you make list for us of "big and important things" that we do as a nation and that rally the nation AND meet with your approval. "

Whatever the list it doesn't involve spending trillions of dollars we don't have to pay off the public employees unions or turning our health care system into a socialist nightmare.

traditionalguy said...

What we have here is a failure to communicate. JFK's traditionalist generation knew what Sorensen meant when American presidents said"the buck stops here." The Obama/Pelosi/Reid politburo has only recognized " all of the bucks must go through us". That sounds a lot alike , but it is a huge difference. How's your migraine doing Garage?

HDHouse said...

Hoosier Daddy said...
"Kennedy was President in 1969?

But he did manage to get us to Vietnam."

a rare day of agreement Hoosier.

I've never thought ill of the "go to the moon" idea but it was hardly Kennedy who got us there - he should get credit for pointing the way but that's about it.

The Guardiano article quotes the "pay any price..." rally snipet which, as you nicely point out" fizzled somewhat in Viet Nam and now plays out in central Asia.

MadisonMan said...

Yes, and Ronald Reagan wouldn't fit in with today's Republican Party.

The writing formula is Now-dead luminary of X wouldn't recognize/feel comfortable with/vote with today's version of X. As an unproveable thesis, it's very handy. But it's really just padding a writing project 'til it gets to some pre-ordained number of words or lines.

Randy said...

From the credit-where-credit is due department: Apollo program

traditionalguy said...

HD...What has got into you and Bill Maher? JFK was 100% the force that set the NASA guys free to spend all that money apolloing men to the moon and back. How many Presidents have started a visionary project like that since 1963?

Roost on the Moon said...

"That's what really hurt."

Ugh, what are you talking about, Althouse?

You've never named specific things, or explained how they hurt. I'm sure this post makes sense if you think all of our (unnamed) problems were caused by two years of governance by Democrats.

But for those who don't, you may want to elaborate.

garage mahal said...

John F. Kennedy, May 25, 1961:

First, I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to the earth. No single space project in this period will be more impressive to mankind, or more important for the long-range exploration of space; and none will be so difficult or expensive to accomplish. We propose to accelerate the development of the appropriate lunar space craft. We propose to develop alternate liquid and solid fuel boosters, much larger than any now being developed, until certain which is superior.

Chris Christie October 27, 2010:

I’m sticking with decision to scrap tunnel

Scott Walker via notrain.com:

Governor Doyle and Secretary La Hood say we can’t stop the train. I say, just watch us.

Hoosier Daddy said...

HD...What has got into you and Bill Maher? JFK was 100% the force that set the NASA guys free to spend all that money apolloing men to the moon and back.

He got the ball rolling to be sure but there were two more Presidents who made sure it kept going (not to mention Congress which approved the funding).

former law student said...

Sure they wouldn't. Obama-Reid-Pelosi were successful where Kennedy-Sorensen failed.

Kennedy tried to get a universal health care plan through Congress, but it was opposed by private insurance companies, and the American Medical Association, which called it "socialist."

But LBJ was able to get Medicare through Congress.

Similarly, during his election campaign, JFK argued for more rights for a despised minority, which in turn gave him more than 70 percent of his vote.

But in his first two years of office, JFK did not put forward his promised Civil Rights Act.

And once again, LBJ succeeded where JFK failed.

former law student said...

s/his vote/its vote/

Mark O said...

Could any Democrat be elected with this slogan?

Ask not what your country can do for you.

Fred4Pres said...

There is an growing undercurrent of people on the left who seems to not like the idea of American exceptionalism. They think it is fascist or something bad. I think that contigent is growing but it is still a minority.

But that said the Kennedy-Soresen Dems would recognize the Obama-Reid-Pelosi Dems.

Hoosier Daddy said...

garage, is Christie scrapping the tunnel because they don't have the expertise to build it or because he doesn't want to spend money on it?

This is what I love about liberals like garage; their devotion to a Democrat President who up to that point did the biggest tax cut in history, presided over a failed attempt at regime change in Cuba, took us to the bring of nuclear war with the Soviet Union and got the ball rolling with our involvement in Vietnam.

Fred4Pres said...

Oh wait, you were talking about John F. Kennedy. My bad. I thought you meant Teddy "Fredo" Kennedy.

edutcher said...

50 years ago, Liberals didn't hate this country.

1jpb said...

Political manipulation by a con is so tasteful when it's based on the recently dead.

Or, we could stick to reality.


Hah! The reality was he was dazzled by the externals.

Try again.

Douglas Cobb said...

garage:

Kennedy didn't get us to the moon. LBJ did. He pushed the space program long before Kennedy ran for President. Kennedy made some fine speeches written by Ted Sorensen but Johnson was the man behind the program. (I believe that Sorensen actually wrote "Profiles in Courage" as well)

Just for kicks who was more intelligent Kennedy or Nixon? (No cheating on wikipedia)

Who had the best interests in the country in mind Nixon or Gore?

Pastafarian said...

I disagree with the headline.

Kennedy would recognize Obama-Reid-Pelosi -- as anti-American socialists.

If Kennedy were alive today, he'd be a Republican. In fact, you could probably say that about most of the great figures in the history of our nation.

Lincoln, Washington, Jefferson -- do you really think that they'd be for an infinitely elastic commerce clause, and magical penumbras that protect a right to abortion-on-demand?

Hell, if Jefferson saw our draconian gun control laws, he'd probably start another revolution. The Republicans might be too far to the left for him.

former law student said...

From Lowry/Ponnaru on American exceptionalism:

[The US] It is freer, more individualistic, more democratic, and more open and dynamic than any other nation on earth.

Can a country which differs from others only in degree, not in kind, truly be exceptional?

The authors keep harking back to the Framers, then produce a whopper like this:

Our defense spending constituted half of the world’s defense spending in 2003.

The framers uniformly believed that standing armies were the greatest threat to liberty -- that's why the Constitution limits to two years the funding of armies.

Free labor markets have been an expression of American individualism and a contributor to American dynamism.

Corporations as we know them today did not exist until a century after the Declaration of Independence -- at the time of the Framers man and master were on a par. "Free labor markets" mean little against the concentrated power of the Fortune 500.

former law student said...

If Kennedy were alive today, he'd be a Republican.

So what would Nixon be?

They had today's Republican Party back then -- they called it the John Birch Society.

traditionalguy said...

Hoosier Daddy and FLS are agreeing on dissing JFK's accomplishments in the same thread...the end of the world may come sooner than we thought. My opinion is that those guys are still jealous that JFK who had Jackie was also nailing Marilyn Monroe while the were still in High School.( For you youngsters, Marilyn was what a true Goddess looks like). Heck, even Bill Clinton had great respect for that particular accomplishment of JFK. In politics it is often whom your daddy knows. Joe Kennedy was tight with the Mob from his liquor running days, and the Bush boys' daddy was tight with the CIA and Prescot Bush's German industrialist connection. In the end, poor Marilyn was not tight with anyone.

Paul said...

"Yes, and Ronald Reagan wouldn't fit in with today's Republican Party."

Yes and that is about to change. Starting today.

traditionalguy said...

FLS...The John Birch Society is smaller today than the KKK; and once Ron and Rand Paul quit getting disciples it will become history.

Trooper York said...

Sorry Ted Sorenson is busy.

Coketown said...

Is that what the last two years have been? A pissing contest with the past? "The Kennedy Democrats insured the elderly? Well...we'll insure EVERYBODY! The Kennedy Democrats had a debt-to-GDP ratio of 55%? Well, we'll have 95%! And it'll go higher! They put men on the moon? Well, look out proxima centauri, here we come! More money!"

You can see why this need to out-do the past quickly breaks down. Come on, fellas. They're dead. You're showing who's boss just by walking around breathing.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Kennedy-Sorensen Dems Wouldn't Recognize Obama-Reid-Pelosi.

Sure they would. They went to war with such people in Vietnam.

Hoosier Daddy said...

The framers uniformly believed that standing armies were the greatest threat to liberty...

Indeed. The Japanese Imperial Army and the Wehrmacht were prime examples.

Paul Zrimsek said...

That's one small tunnel for a man, one Big Dig for mankind.

Pastafarian said...

fls, are you seriously suggesting that the Republican Party has moved to the right, since the days of Nixon and Kennedy?

How so, exactly?

And please, no vague references to racist bogeymen in the Tea Party. Just tell me the specific policy positions of the modern Republican Party, that make it more in line with the John Birch Society of the 1960s, than it would be with the Republican Party of the 1960s.

That's nonsense. That's an "I'm rubber and you're glue" argument. You might as well accompany it with "Neener, neener, neener."

The Crack Emcee said...

Is anyone listening to Rush right now?

"We refused to give in to magical thinking,..."

He's probably the only pundit/commentator I can think of who regularly, and without shame, is pumping my themes.

What's wrong with the rest, I don't know. Too stupid, or cowardly, I guess. It's weird, considering.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Hoosier Daddy and FLS are agreeing on dissing JFK's accomplishments in the same thread...the end of the world may come sooner than we thought.

Don't forget hdhouse agreed with me too. Yes I do believe those are frogs falling on your roof and locusts scratching at your windows.

Here watch this. Hey Trooper, the Giants suck. Colts are going all the way baby.

Sixty Grit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
former law student said...

The John Birch Society is smaller today than the KKK

But they stand for limited government, individual freedom, individual responsibility, and free enterprise, and against collectivism.

The Crack Emcee said...

What's wrong with The John Birch Society?

They were on it, in many respects. It's the same BS today:

Get into the Left's spirituality - as they do the Right's - and you'll be labeled as crazy yourself, sometimes even by the Right.

That's madder than anything the Bircher's did.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Hoosier, with all due respect, the Giants just won the series.

I was talking football. Trooper is a NY Giants fanatic.

ricpic said...

Sorensen equated American greatness with a great and ever growing central state; that leads directly to Obama.

Fen said...

FLS: But they stand for limited government, individual freedom, individual responsibility, and free enterprise, and against collectivism.

Shorter: "Hitler was a painter. So all artists are Nazi"

Former Law Student indeed...

traditionalguy said...

FLS...The Birchers are a semi-religious cult that recruits weak minded libertarians. Just because they know how to counterfeit Reagan Conservatism is no more an argument against Reagan Conservatives than the existence of counterfeit $100 bills are reasons to throw out your real money. From a Bircher perspective Reagan was also a dupe of the World Conspiracy that only Birchers were smart enough to see.

former law student said...

are you seriously suggesting that the Republican Party has moved to the right, since the days of Nixon and Kennedy?

No moderate like Eisenhower, Nixon (father of the earned income tax credit), Rockefeller, or Ford could get nominated today. Bush, Sr., had to temper his moderate views, even though he had served Reagan loyally as VP for eight years.

Brent Bozell's Conscience of a Conservative, published under Goldwater's name, brought conservative ideas into the GOP mainstream, where they took root and grew.

Paul said...

"But they stand for limited government, individual freedom, individual responsibility, and free enterprise, and against collectivism. "

Something wrong with that? Seems to me that describes the ideals upon which the nation was founded, and which are responsible for our unmatched success in the history of the world.

Of course you assholes can't wait to "totally transform" the country into some shitty failed third rate socialist dump that knows its place in the world.

I guess that's one way to make sure there is no argument for American exceptionalism.

Sixty Grit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
traditionalguy said...

Crack...I hope you are kidding. The John Birch Society is a mind control cult using the exposure of Secret Communists as a pride based recruitment tool for the profit of the Prophets that have made it all up.

garage mahal said...

If Obama proposed going to the moon, here is what would happen:

1. Republicans would say it costs 10 times more than it actually would, calling it government takeover of the moon.

2. Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin would say Democrats are planning death panels and re-education camps on the moon.

Those would be the issues surrounding it, as a nation, we could discuss.

Sixty Grit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
former law student said...

"totally transform" the country into some shitty failed third rate socialist dump that knows its place in the world.

I guess that's one way to make sure there is no argument for American exceptionalism.


We're Number One!

Who wouldn't rather own an exceptional American Chevy Malibu than any third rate socialist BMW ever made?

former law student said...

I left out McCain's startling transformation as a born-again conservative, including lashing himself to the irresistable Sarah Palin.

traditionalguy said...

FLS... Are you auditioning for the Concise Ritmo brand today? you are hunting on a baited field. Have fun.

traditionalguy said...

Fls ...Have you any proof that Sarah Palin actually lashed John McCain? That comment is yellow journalism. Now if it was Elliott Spitzer, then we could believe you.

traditionalguy said...

Garage @ 12:11 wins the thread. In fact his ideas sound pretty good to me. Have fun everyone.

hombre said...

Who wouldn't rather own an exceptional American Chevy Malibu than any third rate socialist BMW ever made?

You mean a Malibu built by Government Motors and the proud remnants of the UAW? And you think that example is illustrative of proponents of American exceptionalism rather than the trend in the other direction?

You're a little confused, aren't you?

The Crack Emcee said...

Tg,

The John Birch Society is a mind control cult using the exposure of Secret Communists as a pride based recruitment tool for the profit of the Prophets that have made it all up.

I'm an atheist. What's the likelihood that anyone who defends my ideas ain't gonna be caught up in something I don't agree with? Not likely. People on the Right are talking about Ayn Rand now and hardly mention she started a cult. My point:

Y'all believe in so much crazy shit, I've got to take any sign of intelligence where I can find it, and just reject the rest.

I'm left with no other choice.

Douglas Cobb said...

former law student (Did you flunk out?)

Nixon was an establishment liberal Republican. He is the author of the modern American welfare state. If anything, the Kennedy's were more involved in McCarthyism then Nixon. Nixon was an independent anti-Communist whose position was vindicated by the Venona intercepts (a good thing since the Reds out murdered the Browns 10:1)

former law student said...

Nixon was an establishment liberal Republican. He is the author of the modern American welfare state.

Exactly. Far too liberal to be nominated as a Republican today. Much more likely for Nixon to run as a Democrat than for JFK to be a Republican.

traditionalguy said...

Crack...Take it from this friend that the Bircher's doctrines will entrap a mind and not set a mind free. When everyone else starts looking to you like a foolish pawn that is not in on the latest secrets of enemy activity, then run like heck out of there. Why would that type of thinker ever accept your talents and thoughts as equal to theirs? Life is too short to let people abuse you for their bragging rights.

traditionalguy said...

FLS...So what was George W Romney? He was always a proud GOP social liberal, but anti-union. But that happened before Nixon used social issues to shift the South from the more tolerant Democrats over to the party of Lincoln. Tricky Dick sure was a smart fellow. And no wonder Mitts found it so easy to become a Massachusetts Governor.

The Crack Emcee said...

Tg,

Duly noted. And thanks.

Trooper York said...

"WV: bustst - the NY football Giants' season has been a big bustst."

HOW ABOUT THOSE COWBOYS!!!!!!!!!!

Michael said...

Liberal thinking today, big liberal thinking today, is a tunnel from the west bank of the Hudson to the east bank of the Hudson.

former law student said...

You mean a Malibu built by Government Motors and the proud remnants of the UAW?

You see that even exceptional Americans prefer the products of third rate Socialist countries, like Germany and Japan.

Paul said...

"Who wouldn't rather own an exceptional American Chevy Malibu than any third rate socialist BMW ever made? "

You're even stupider than I thought.

That BMW is the product of free enterprise and competition.

The third rate socialist car that comes to mind is the Trabant.

That's what you get when the government runs business.

We'll be number one as long as patriots can defeat the malignancy of the Anti-American leftists like yourself, and we're getting busy doing just that starting today asshole.

former law student said...

tg: George Romney put all his eggs in the "small, economical" car basket. The Kenosha Cadillac gasped its last in the 1980s.

Someone in my neighborhood has an early 60s Rambler the same size as a low end Mercedes of that era.

Sixty Grit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
former law student said...

That BMW is the product of free enterprise and competition.


Proudly built by high-paid unionized (IG Metall) workers in a country with universal health care.

Unless you refer to the US SUVs, built in a plant heavily subsidized by the government of one of the former Confederate states, where typhoid, yaws, and pellagra were recently eradicated.

Michael said...

Fls, lots of Beemers made in South Carolina by highly paid non-union workers with employer subsidized health care.

traditionalguy said...

FLS ...We southern auto workers resent that disrespect. While it is true that we build the new Typhoid SUV by Hyundae in Alabama, and yes, it yaws to the right at high speed; but we definitely still have our Pell grants for Agra school over at UGA.

Douglas Cobb said...

FLS:

You forget one thing. Nixon remained an anti-Communist to the end. He would never run as Democrat because the DP is the American Communist Party

Trooper York said...

The New York Giants are 5 and 2 and in first place in their division and on their way to the playoffs and dare I say it....another Superbowl win!


Have I told you lately that the Giants are going to win the Superbowl.

Trooper York said...

They often win the championship when the Yankees lose.

You see God is a New York Sports fan.

Well except for the Mets and the Jets. He hates them.

former law student said...

Article in the Washington Post last week says new hires at the SC BMW plant get $15 an hour, about half what the Munich workers get.

We are now the low wage country.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/
wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/26
/AR2010102607165.html

In exchange for all those good $30K a year jobs, the BMW plant has received a quarter-billion dollars of government handouts.

Trooper York said...

I mean we put Tony (I am not a homo even thought I broke up with Jessica Simpson)Romo out for the season. The Eagles only have a dog killer at QB. Pittsburghs QB is due to rape someone new and be up on charges. And Brett Farve is suffering from vaginal discharge and bleeding or something.

So I feel preety good about Eli and the Giant's chances.

Brian said...

@FLS:
Unless you refer to the US SUVs, built in a plant heavily subsidized by the government of one of the former Confederate states, where typhoid, yaws, and pellagra were recently eradicated.

There's the way to defend your position and get southerners to be sympathetic to your views.

Yaws, really? It's a South American disease.

Sixty Grit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
former law student said...

Farve forgot that while in his mind he's a stud, to a woman in her mid-twenties he's just a skeevy old guy.

ricpic said...

My SUV doesn't yaw.

Trooper York said...

I thought everybody on the Colts is hurt. I think Bubba Smith broke his toe or something?

Peyton should know his place. So to speak.

Hold on Eli's coming.

I know this because he finally knocked up his wife. Just sayn'

Brian said...

As far as local & state government handing out tax incentives to BMW or other auto manufacturers: It's the product of states competing to get the plants located in their state and the jobs that come with it. If you don't like it, you can get involved in state politics.

As far as the NY Giants, I simply hope that we won't see Manning vs. Manning in the Super Bowl. We Mississippians wouldn't want to see the Manning family split asunder.

Sixty Grit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ricpic said...

Ever get the feeling Eli Manning apologizes in the huddle for any "disparate impact" his next play call might have on the fullback goon or the halfback goon or the tight end goon?

former law student said...

Please refer to "Occurrence of Yaws in United States," by E.J. Wood. Wilmington N.C. American Journal of Tropical Diseases and Preventative Medicine, January 1915.

Trooper York said...

Actually we traded the tight end goon to the Saints.

Kevin Boss is well....Boss... man.

former law student said...

So if government handouts in exchange for jobs is OK on the state level (BMW, Honda, Mercedes, Toyota, Hyundai), why is it not OK on the national level (GM, Chrysler)?

We like foreign companies better than Americans? Isn't that unAmerican?

Trooper York said...

And you just don't like Jacobs because you thought he was Jewish ricpic and you were bitterly dissappointed.

But hey. At least you still have Amare!

ricpic said...

Lucifer advised God to advise Cashman to stick with the core four. And God took the bait. Mwa ha ha ha ha.

Hoosier Daddy said...

I thought everybody on the Colts is hurt. I think Bubba Smith broke his toe or something?

Yeah we're a bit banged up but we persevered.

I still wish they'd get rid of Sanders.

ndspinelli said...

My old man was a lifelong, ethnic, blue collar Dem. He was born the same year as JFK[1917]. My father saw just how much of a phoney, crook, weasel Nixon was from the beginning. When Nixon gave the Checkers Speech, mentioning his family as cover, that's all the first generation Italian had to see.

My father died in 1989 and said he saw the Dem party start to unravel when JFK was killed. He would not even recognize it now.

Michael said...

FLS: As usual The Washington Post does not serve us well. The new hires do not stay new hires forever and the $15 hourly quickly goes higher. It is commonly understood that the cost of living in South Carolina (coastal areas excepted) are lower than they are in high cost Munich. The Two hundred and fifty million dollar subsidy to which you refer has implications far beyond the BMW plant itself as you will see when you google the economic growth in the counties surrounding the plant and note the new businesses created after the plant opened. The tax intake from the area would be a place to focus your research skills (which are clearly and evidently more developed than writers for the WaPo) to see whether or not the plant was worth the subsidy. You might conclude it was more investment than subsidy.

Hoosier Daddy said...

We are now the low wage country.

I'd say we just more competitive and German workers are overpaid.

In exchange for all those good $30K a year jobs, the BMW plant has received a quarter-billion dollars of government handouts.

I didn't see the government handouts in the article. Can you point to them?

Hoosier Daddy said...

"It's been pretty good - it's not really hard work," said Wade Lamay, 40, who used to be a supervisor at a plastics recycling company.

I dunno, $30K/annum for pretty good and not really hard work sounds about right.

ndspinelli said...

Trooper,

I grew up a Giants fan in Ct. My old man would take me to Fairfield U. to watch them train during the Allie Sherman days. We got to see a few games the year they played in Yale Bowl when the Hoffa Stadium/Grave was being built. Living in Wi. since 1983 I've evolved[devolved?] into a Packer fan. I got a longtime friend from Boonton, NJ coming out for a frozen tundra battle on 12/26/10.

Brian said...

Please refer to "Occurrence of Yaws in United States," by E.J. Wood. Wilmington N.C. American Journal of Tropical Diseases and Preventative Medicine, January 1915.

Unfortunately I can't read that online. Anyway I'm too busy reading about that rickets problem in New York City.

Michael said...

FLS: "if government handouts in exchange for jobs is OK on the state level (BMW, Honda, Mercedes, Toyota, Hyundai), why is it not OK on the national level (GM, Chrysler)?"

There is a distinction with a difference. The handouts in the GM and Chrysler cases were to failing companies with existing plant and equipment in place. The state subsidies were to have the companies deploy tens of millions of dollars into plant and equipment that did not exist before. The GM and Chrysler stories are of employees having their jobs saved. The other stories are of jobs created.

GM and Chrysler had plants that were fifty years old or older with suppliers and infrastructure already in place. Their failure to have a sustainable business model impacts negatively on those who built up around them. The new plants are built for companies that have a model that is succeeding and suppliers will follow them thus creating new jobs.

traditionalguy said...

Trooper...That is pretty big talk for a fan of a Tom Coughlan coached team. The Falcons are still in this Bowl thing that we have been told happens every February. That is a long season for the Falcons. We do wish that we had been able to keep Detroit's duo of Matt Stafford and Calvin Johnson here in Georgia. That is the curse from 10 win seasons...no playoffs much, but no really high draft choices either.

former law student said...

Not on line, try to get it at the library:

The Great American Jobs Scam: Corporate Tax Dodging and the Myth of Job Creation [Hardcover]
Greg LeRoy

Randy said...

If anyone is interested, Domino's Japan is offering $31,000/hr for part-time work.

ricpic said...

spinelli - I grew up in a household that worshipped FDR. Those immigrant and first generation ethnics were wrong. The Democratic Party was already heavily influenced by the hard left in the 30's and made the great depression magnitudes worse than it had to be. The rot began way before JFK.

ricpic said...

Wa' 'owah. Wa' 'owah they make me rich then toss me like cheap kimono.

Michael said...

FLS: You seem like a nice person. You could use some coaching in economic matters which I gather you recognize. I would not recommend that you get the coaching from people with agendas like the guy from "good jobs first." His is not a credible point of view and to associate with him diminishes your status in any discussion on economic issues, modern manufacturing, trade or (probably) arithmetic.

Roger J. said...

JFK seems to be one of those ambivalent types--he did have some great rhetorical flourishes; however, he also boinked Marilyn Monroe, East German spies, and mafia molls--He was a walking penis who puts bill clinton to shame: all bill got was a blow job from a zaftig maiden--Marilyn Monroe? Monica Lewinski? Kennedy was also probably high on pain killers because of his back problems.

From a policy standpoint, Kennedy almost got us into a nuclear war with the USSR based on his lying campaign rhetoric (the missile gap), did get the ball rolling in Viet Nam, and kept a low profile during the civil rights days--probably because J Edgar Hoover had the goods on him. He was strong on defense, and cut income taxes--More republican than today's democrat--in terms of his overall policies--and like Bill Clinton in terms of sexual excesses.

lemondog said...

re: Christie and da tunnel:

The state can't afford billions of dollars in projected cost overruns, and he won't raise taxes to offset the expense. He questioned why New Jersey was expected to foot so much of the bill, compared with New York and the federal government.

"I'm not having the taxpayers of the state of New Jersey pick up that tab," he said.


He'd rather concentrate NJ taxpayer money on repairing/rebuilding NJ aging transit system.

Anything wrong with that?

Fred4Pres said...

Trooper York said...
The New York Giants are 5 and 2 and in first place in their division and on their way to the playoffs and dare I say it....another Superbowl win!


Have I told you lately that the Giants are going to win the Superbowl.

11/2/10 1:39 PM


I want the Giants to win. But before they start parading around with the Lombardi Trophy, what is the over/under on Giants false starts this Sunday at Qwest Field?

former law student said...

I agree with Christie's analysis. Why would Christie want NJ residents have ready access to good jobs in Manhattan? How would they benefit from that?

Roger J. said...

You know FLS--probably because the cost of the tunnel to NJ residents doesnt come close to the benefits derived from the NJ residents that commute--

Come on, dude--I know you are smarter than you appear on the internet.

Here's a question for you FLS: name ONE major infrastructure project that has come in on or under budget, on time, and had the project benefits that proponents argued that it would produce.

Just one. (read the great article entitled "a desire named streetcar" for your answer.

Michael said...

New York would be wise to entirely fund the tunnel from New Jersey to ensure the flow of workers to the jobs in Manhattan that it taxes to the teeth. Manhattan's insane rent control laws made it impossible for working people to actually live on the island so they are compelled to live elsewhere though they continue to be taxed in NY. Wall Street could easily relocate to the western bank of the Hudson. Perhaps it will.

former law student said...

name ONE major infrastructure project that has come in on or under budget, on time, and had the project benefits that proponents argued that it would produce

Easy. Both the Golden Gate Bridge and the original Oakland Bay Bridge came in ahead of time, underbudget, succeeding beyond the wildest dreams of the proponents.

There were giants in those days -- the Great Depression -- but we only have pygmies now.

Roger J. said...

Michael: your points are, of course, well taken--the downside is that the state of New York (and the substate, NYC) are governed by the same types of idiots that assert they govern California. With similar results--hell, a city that cant deal with bedbugs isnt going to do particularly well with infrastructure issues.

Michael said...

FLS names a couple of projects that came in under time and on budget. The Empire State building was built in less time than it takes to get a building permit in NY today.

FLS: I think the challenge is to name a project that has been on budget in the modern era, since the advent of strict zoning, nimby thinking, environmental regulations, etc. I think you knew that, but nice quick response anyway.

Michael said...

Roger J: Point taken. But I will say that real estate projects on Manhattan island are executed with grace and precision. You can walk by a project for 18 months and then one day it is open, reaching into the sky. Deliveries done at night, staging areas off the island, it is quite remarkable what the private sector gets done against stiff bureaucratic resistance.

Roger J. said...

Kudos to FLs--both projects came in under budget--and surpassed even the most optimistic projections for use.

Michael said...

FLS: The Golden Gate Bridge is often clogged. Do you think it would be possible today to build another bridge beside it to relieve congestion and make the good people of Marin's life easier?

Roger J. said...

Gotta run, but appreciate Michael's and FLS's comments re infrastructure projects--I do subscribe to Michael's point about modern era infrastructure but I didnt frame my question to FLS with that caveat--So FLS got me fair and square.

former law student said...

The news Tacoma-Narrows bridge opened to traffic on July 16, 2007, four weeks early and under budget.

The original 1950 bridge was reconfigured for westbound traffic only; the new bridge carries eastbound traffic. Tolls were reinstated to pay for the new span.

virgil xenophon said...

Sportsfans, the ONLY reason Nixon went left on domestic issues was as a sop the the left so they wouldn't gut the military budget out of pique--which they were (are) fully capable of doing if provoked as their natural inclinations trend that way anyway. This was "log-rolling" in the classic HS text-book civics style. Nixon felt--rightly or wrongly--that such left-wing programs could always be reigned in or eliminated later,
but that if we lost the arms-race/cold-war to the SU nothing else would really matter. Protecting national security came first in Nixon's eyes and if that meant giving the Donkeys what they wanted domestically to keep them from savaging the defense budget, so be it. If Nixon had had a Republican Congress his domestic program would have looked far different.

bandmeeting said...

Why would Christie want NJ residents have ready access to good jobs in Manhattan

I'm not sure if you've gone between NJ and NY recently but the fact is that there are plenty of ways to do that. NJ Rail is a pretty good way to commute and you can do it now without any new tunnel.

I'm all for infrastructure spending if it is done right. That tunnel is not right. We finally have a politician who is willing to stand up and stop buying his votes and he still gets flack (because he has an R next to his name).

bandmeeting said...

I should add, If I were to head out my front door right now I would be in NJ within 40 minutes. Why do I need that tunnel?

Actually, I could be in NJ in 20 minutes (from 77th and Amsterdam) if I went by bike (I do, about 3 times per week)over the GW bridge.

c3 said...

Really, comparing the man who got us to the moon to the party who thinks we can't build a tunnel?

And as I read the Kennedy/sorensen rhetoric I winced at the "pay any price" phrase.

No we can't "pay any price" (In fact we never could)

And I applaud Gov Christie for boldly suggesting we don't have the money

If only California could be so bold.

bandmeeting said...

If a faster way to go from NY to NJ would be beneficial, my suggestion is to spend an astronomical $100 or $200 thousand on ticket machines a la Grand Central Station so the people don't have to line up for those zombie ticket agents at Penn. Sta.

Michael said...

Bandmeeting: Good point, but what would the union ticket takers do stuck up in those small machines? Could they even sit down much less sleep?