October 14, 2010

Michelle Obama: "It means all the world to us to know that there are prayer circles out there and people who are keeping the spirits clean around us"

Keeping the spirits clean?

She's out doing politics. Fine. She drags in prayer. I don't like that, but I'm used to the political appropriation of religion in America. But what is this notion of "keeping the spirits clean"? The "spirits... around us"? Does she think we all have spirits around us, spirits that can be unclean?

What religion is that? Is she dabbling in... New Age? Is she a witch?

Now, she does pause and chuckle/scoff between the words "keeping" and "spirits," and that might suggest an ironic distance from the common folk who believe in such things. Or — listen and judge — it might mean that she's aware that it's a bit daring to let it slip that she believes we are surrounded by clean and unclean spirits that influence our fate.

111 comments:

t-man said...

And Joe Biden is the judge of which spirits are clean and which are unclean.

TRO said...

I really, really want to know who came up wirh the idea that she and Barry were actually smart? Cause nothing, and I mean nothing, in the past two years has given me any indication that they are nothing more than kids who were passed along up the grade chain despite their obvious short-comings.

As to the religious reference . . . I don't know if either of them is a Muslim or a Christian or a Wiccan, but whatever they are they show no sign of being serious about it.

It's all just politics . . .

AllenS said...

Prayer circles = windmills

Keeping spirits clean = solar panels

C R Krieger said...

I think that we have unclean spirits as part of Christianity.  Perhaps a better choice of words would have been evil spirits, but it is accepting that there are forces out there in a spiritual realm where battles are sometimes fought.  It doesn't seem off to me, given the assumption that the First Lady was brought up in a Christian household.  It is not a phrase that would appeal to college graduate, upper middle class people from elite East or West Coast schools.

Regards  —  Cliff

Pogo said...

Time for the Exorcist.

MadisonMan said...

I dust my gin bottles every night. My spirits are very clean.

TerriW said...

I look forward to the ensuing Crack Emcee photo collage for this one.

garage mahal said...

Oh dear, I'm so sick and tired of politics! The lying. The distortion. The inhumanity! Calgon take me away!

Fen said...

"Black Liberation Theology will only accept the love of a God that participates in the destruction of the White enemy" - Dr Cone, Obama supporter in defense of Michelle's "church".

At least now the Affirmative Action admit can blame "evil spirits" for eating his homework. Good news, because DHOTUS was running out of scapegoats to ride.

AllenS said...

Terri,

Crack has left. He checked out yesterday or the day before.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Keeping spirits clean = scotch neat.

We are all going to need a LOT of clean spirits soon if we don't stop these people.

Next on their agenda is to sieze your 401K, IRA and private pension plans so they can redistribute them in the name of 'fairness'.

I think they are not only deliberately trying to destroy the country, they are literally suicidal.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)
Crack has left. He checked out yesterday or the day before.


Permanently??? Why for did he leave? Were you all mean to him? Has he received a ginourmous recording contract?

Fen said...

What happened? Did Ann's censorship and double standards re race run him off?

/sssh! don't mention the Coates testimony that DOJ won't prosecute civil rights violations if the perps are black.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)
Keeping spirits clean = scotch neat.


As it was meant to be consumed.

AJ Lynch said...

"What religion is that? Is she dabbling in... New Age? "

New Age? If so, she is cruising for a bruising from Crack Emcee!

Scott M said...

Joe, if you ever, ever use the word "ginormous" here again, I will zombieEMP your ass back into the cannibal stone age.

1jpb said...

"nothing, in the past two years has given me any indication that they are nothing more than kids who were passed along up the grade chain despite their obvious short-comings"

He schooled all of the Rs on live tv w/o notes. You can't do that and be a dope.

After that meeting the Rs said they would never allow cameras in future meetings w/ the POTUS.
Funny stuff.

P.S. I'm interpreting your quote as if the second 'nothing' should have been 'anything.'

Re spirits:

Glenn Beck decided that she said this because she believes in voodoo (but not the economic kind, because every good con knows that voodoo economics work!!!).

Sixty Grit said...

She is a nasty scowling bitch with an enormous ass - who gives a fuck what she believes, anything she says is a lie in any case.

The Ghost said...

heck, just wear a crystal around your neck Michelle ...

Calypso Facto said...

MM: If you drank that gin faster, you wouldn't have to dust...

Just sayin. (c. Trooper)

traditionalguy said...

Yes, where is Crack when we need him. It is of note that Africans have no doubts about the existence of spirits that are used by "Witch Doctors" for a fee and get results. Otherwise the fees would not be so high. In 2008 the Greatest Issue about Sarah Palin was that prayers had been offered for her in a Pentacostal Church by a Christian from Africa that was experienced in defeating witchcraft spells that would try to stop her political career. That simple act by a Christian Pastor set off the national media into a hate storm that has only recently calmed down, a little bit. So if Michelle wants protection from GOP spells, then go for it. Palin has seen a few of those lately too.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)
He schooled all of the Rs on live tv w/o notes. You can't do that and be a dope.

After that meeting the Rs said they would never allow cameras in future meetings w/ the POTUS.
Funny stuff.



That would not be the health care “summit” would it? Because if that’s what you refer to the “School’n” was from Rep Ryan to Obama, not vice versa. Or was this the “I won” meeting?

Robert Cook said...

"I think they are not only deliberately trying to destroy the country, they are literally suicidal."

If you really believe this, you are insane.

As bad as I think the Obama administration is, as bad as was Bush's administration, and Clinton's, and Bush's, and Reagan's, etc. etc., none of these Presidents were either "suicidal" or "deliberately trying to destroy the country."

What they all do is try to create government policy that in their view will best serve their consituency.

The problem is, for all of them, their consituency is not we, the people but the corporations and financial institutions, and other wealthy entities who pay the piper, as it were.

"He who pays the piper calls the tune". Truer words were never spake (sic).

Scott M said...

1jbp,

If you're referring to the RNC meeting he attended and the Obamacare "summit" between Dem and GOP members of Congress, I'll give you the first instance, but he and the Dems came off very poorly in that second meeting.

AllenS said...

Crack said "Buh, bye" and I sensed something, clicked on his profile and there was nothing.

The Ghost said...

ijpb ... he schooled the R's ? really, he schooled Ryan ? He ducked Ryan and ran away like the uninformed fool he is ...
keep drinking that kool aide ...
he was a B student at Harvard and maybe worse at Columbia ...
You were conned and simply refuse to face that fact ...

America's Politico said...

FLOTUS is the reason that Obama/Biden will be re-elected. All my internal polls suggest that. She gives about 5-points.

Thus, it is impossible for any GOP (Romney, Palin, Huckabee, Daniels, Christie, Ryan, etc.) to have any reasonable shot in Nov. 2012.

Let's face it: GOP is a party of dead (or soon to be dead). Next time they will have a shot (or may have a shot) is in 2016, unless Mrs. Clinton runs.

If you want to be happy, change your party affiliation. Leave GOP or tea party, and come join us in the Democratic Party.

Nov. 2010 (Senate Democrats: 54; House Democrats: 224).

Nov. 2012 (Obama/Biden: 50-state victory against anyone and everyone from GOP/Tea Party).

Robert Cook said...

Please read "constituency" where I wrote "consituency" in my previous post.

MayBee said...

Mom In Chief!

Sixty Grit said...

America's Asshole wrote "Let's face it: GOP is a party of dead (or soon to be dead)."

What the fuck does that mean? Where the fuck are you from? You are one illiterate motherless fuck. Go back home to your hut - you have no business around productive literate citizens of this once great nation.

WV: wacking - there you have it.

Fen said...

The problem is, for all of them, their consituency is not we, the people but the Unions and other parasites that want to shake us down

/fixed

Fen said...

Worst. Recovery. Ever.

pm317 said...

She said this on a radio show with a predominant Black audience. May be she is paranoid that everyone is out to hurt them politically and trying to get some sympathy from her 'people' -- 'look we ran and did a huge favor to you people by getting to the WH and now 'they' are doing this to us.'

TRO said...

"He schooled all of the Rs on live tv w/o notes. You can't do that and be a dope.

After that meeting the Rs said they would never allow cameras in future meetings w/ the POTUS.
Funny stuff."

If that's all he has done in two years that doesn't change my opinion of his intelligence one bit.

MadisonMan said...

MM: If you drank that gin faster, you wouldn't have to dust...

Recently had party. Overbought the wine (beer purchases worked out great) and gin and whiskey. I have 30+ bottles of wine to drink, plus 3 bottles of gin.

There are limits to my liver.

GMay said...

"He schooled all of the Rs on live tv w/o notes. You can't do that and be a dope."

Must have watched different televised events than I did. He came across as an uninformed ass who resorts to his only weapon in politics and/or governing - vapid rhetoric.

Robert Cook said...

"The problem is, for all of them, their consituency is not we, the people but the Unions and other parasites that want to shake us down."

This statement simply reveals rank ignorance. Yes, the corporate parasites and financial and banking parasites on Wall Street not only want to but are shaking us down and ripping us off, as well as the military parasites at the Pentagon and the parasites at Halliburton and Blackwater and other war profiteers, but the unions represent a small and rapidly shrinking percentage of the working population in America...to our detriment. We desperately need strong and broad union membership in this country (and around the world) to fight against the criminal goons in the corporate head offices.

Scott M said...

There are limits to my liver.

You have two...what's the problem?

rsb said...

Robert Cook is right. Corporations run the show. Also, anyone who believes in spirits such as "The Holy Spirit" for instance, is delusional.

Scott M said...

Robert

First you need to solve the problem of union leadership corruption. Then you need to solve the problem of union mechanisms that protect the least productive, make it nearly impossible to censure or fire people, and make increasing unrealistic life-long promises. Come up with fixes for those problems and a reasonable discussion can ensue.

c3 said...

Odd religious speak notwithstanding, I noted her "dropping her G's" and being more "real" in her dialect.

Didn't Gov. Palin get a lot of crap for speaking that way.

Why do politicians talk down to black religious audience (not that Tom Joyner is a black religious audience)?

As a kid I was impressed how some black leaders (i.e. MLK) would "overcome" their accents and have a highly-stylized "educated" manner of speech. Barbara Jordan and Mrs. Boone across the street did it too. Where has that gone? I always thought it showed respect for the audience.

SteveR said...

I guess the Trinity is much bigger now. The Father, Son and Holy Spirits.

edutcher said...

I think Ann has a considerable point. Mrs O's laughing up her sleeve when she says stuff like that. Not unlike The Zero telling everybody he's a Christian. She wants to hit the New Agers and the deeply religious blacks and this is the rap Axelrod & Co have her use.

PS Like everyone else, I have no idea of what PB&J is talking about in his "schooling of the Rs". Anybody can memorize a snappy comeback and save it for an appropriate occasion. Most of his participation in meetings is short, so we have few examples of his alleged brilliance.

ken in sc said...

I think Glenn Beck may be right. It sounds like Voudon, Obeah, Santeria, or Baptist Orisha to me.

bagoh20 said...

Wow, somehow I misread that and thought it was a Palin quote. I didn't realize my mistake until reading most of the comments. That's a weird trip to take - ending up far from where you expected.

Surprisingly, my comment does not change from if it was Palin: She's right about the spirits they are there, we just all call them different names.

The difference I feel between the women saying such a thing is that, I don't believe M. Obama believes in prayer. Neither do I, but I like people who do better. They seem more trustworthy and ethical to me. I wish I believed, because I want the believers to be right.

Fen said...

Robert Cook: This statement simply reveals rank ignorance. Yes, the corporate parasites -

" - video he shot outside a Pasadena debate that showed two Spanish-speaking men holding a slapdash white sign accusing "corporate cash" of loving the Republican candidate.

Though the audio is hard to hear, one of the men clearly says he did not make the sign -- another appears to say a "lady" was paying them to hold it. The men do nothing to suggest they are day laborers, but Broes told FoxNews.com he saw them at a well-known day laborer site at the nearby U-Haul just moments before. He said the men were expecting to be paid, though they may have gotten "stiffed," and that the signs came from what appeared to be a Boxer campaign truck."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/10/13/cameraman-claims-video-shows-boxer-camp-trying-hire-day-laborers-hold-signs/?test=latestnews

Hey Robert, are also you being paid with our stimulus taxdollars to push your "corporations are parasites" propaganda?

1jpb said...

ed, et. al.,

It was when he went to the RNC meeting (Scott M pointed to it in his comment). He literally took any question from any R in Congress. He has zero notes. But, each R could have slaved away for days to come up w/ their most biting and effective criticism. But, they were wiped out by BHO, unplugged.

I watched the entire thing, and it was obvious that he had the Rs on their heels. The best proof of this was that the Rs said they would never participate in a situation like this again. Their fear of another televised one on one w/ BHO was the best proof that BHO had singlehandedly (and w/o notes) bested the entire GOP in congress (who were allowed to think about and devise written, piercing questions for BHO).

BTW, did any of you folks read all of the NYT thing that Althouse linked to yesterday. Ryan is one of BHO's favorite two Rs, and his favorite in the House. Imagine if the Rs in congress felt this way. Of course, the GOP has no interest in a Speaker Ryan, but too many of you here don't get that. You're so easily fooled, over and over and ove.....

1jpb said...

Maybe Althouse can review the video of that meeting to see if he had a microphone in his ear.

Remember the last time she was sussing out sort of thing?

jr565 said...

And people were suggesting that O'Donnell was crazy because she dabbled in witchcraft?

1jpb said...

mic or speaker

big deal.

The Crack Emcee said...

I'm here - I'm working alot, on several things, so can't be online like normal:

You're finally back to listening to Michelle, huh? I told you the Obamas were NewAge,...well, ages ago. What do you think Oprah's hanging around is about? Hell-ooo!

You know why I hang around this blog? I need witnesses, so when this NewAge story breaks, as it keeps threatening to (questions regarding Christianity, Christine O'Donnell, etc.), someone will say "yea, he was there first."

it's very cleansing.

Lem said...

Rush has picked up on that "clean spirits" remark.

jr565 said...

Prayer circles? Is that like a pentagram maybe?

1jpb said...

Lem,

You're kidding right?

I'm assuming that you know Rush spends three hours (well not really, plenty of profit breaks) a day reading the Drudge Report over the radio.

Of course he's picked up on that: it's on Drudge!

Scott M said...

1j

Did you watch the summit the President did with congressional leaders? The one that was televised only after people began clamoring he was breaking a direct promise to air things before passing them (in this case, Obamacare)?

He didn't come off quite so well in that instance and the Democrats in general looked nigh pathetic.

Montagne Montaigne said...

Althouse-- the religion is called Christianity. Christians believe in spirits called angels and devils. Some people believe it literally and some more metaphorically.

Also-- Michelle Obama is African American. African Americans developed a christian tradition that probably differs in some ways to the churches you have attended in the past. The language and expressions are different as well.

Also, though you know this, you are being an ass. More power to ya.

Menley said...

Imagine if Sarah Palin or Christine O'Donnell had talked about "people who are keeping the spirits clean around us."

People who think that they're knowledgeable about Christianity mocked Carrie Prejean for mentioning crowns in heaven--and the Bible talks about crowns in heaven.

Scott M said...

I think the point, MM, is that if FLOTUS gets a pass, everyone else mentioning something similar should as well without being labeled as a zealot or a nutjob.

former law student said...

Michelle should have phrased it more clearly as "people who are keeping the spirits around us clean," or perhaps "keeping unclean spirits away from us," or better still "surrounding us with good angels."

I had hoped another Christian would chime in, but for those of you unfamiliar with the Gospels, the concept of "unclean spirits," AKA demons, crops up in Mark, Chapter 5:

2When He got out of (A)the boat, immediately a man from the tombs (B)with an unclean spirit met Him,

3and he had his dwelling among the tombs. And no one was able to bind him anymore, even with a chain;

4because he had often been bound with shackles and chains, and the chains had been torn apart by him and the shackles broken in pieces, and no one was strong enough to subdue him.

5Constantly, night and day, he was screaming among the tombs and in the mountains, and gashing himself with stones.

6Seeing Jesus from a distance, he ran up and bowed down before Him;

7and shouting with a loud voice, he said, "(C)What business do we have with each other, Jesus, (D)Son of (E)the Most High God? I implore You by God, do not torment me!"

8For He had been saying to him, "Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!"

9And He was asking him, "What is your name?" And he said to Him, "My name is (F)Legion; for we are many."

10And he began to implore Him earnestly not to send them out of the country.

11Now there was a large herd of swine feeding nearby on the mountain.

12The demons implored Him, saying, "Send us into the swine so that we may enter them."

13Jesus gave them permission. And coming out, the unclean spirits entered the swine; and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea, about two thousand of them; and they were drowned in the sea.

14Their herdsmen ran away and reported it in the city and in the country. And the people came to see what it was that had happened.

15They came to Jesus and observed the man who had been (G)demon-possessed sitting down, (H)clothed and (I)in his right mind, the very man who had had the "(J)legion"; and they became frightened.

16Those who had seen it described to them how it had happened to the (K)demon-possessed man, and all about the swine.

The Crack Emcee said...

Montagne Montaigne,

Michelle Obama is African American. African Americans developed a christian tradition that probably differs in some ways to the churches you have attended in the past. The language and expressions are different as well.

Please, Mr. Montaigne, tell me all about it.

Montagne Montaigne said...

People mocked Carrie Prejean for saying "We live in a land that you can choose same-sex marriage or opposite marriage". OPPOSITE MARRIAGE.

Sarah Palin is mocked for being STUPID, not for being a Christian.

Christine O'Donnell is also mocked for being STUPID.

You can mock the Obamas for their folksy talk, which is an affectation, like Bush's Texas talk. But to willfully misconstrue the statement to talk about witchcraft, new age, or *gulp* witch doctoring is just a dick move. It's obviously Michelle being BLACK and talking to BLACK FOLKS in BLACK RELIGIOUS VERNACULAR and making light of it places you with Drudge and Michelle Malkin in the pantheon of assholes.

Pogo said...

Good to see you, Crack Emcee.
Missed your words hereabouts.

Calypso Facto said...

MM said :There are limits to my liver.

Scott said: You have two...what's the problem?


Umm, Scott? Better check that anatomy book....

MM~waiver granted. I don't know if even Churchill could've handled 3 bottles of gin (though I bet he'd have enjoyed trying and been extremely witty right up until blackout).

Montagne Montaigne said...

Yes crack. Just because you're the only black guy who reads this blog, you don't get to speak for all black people everywhere. She's not being new-age, she's being folksy, and go ahead and try to argue differently. I'm TELLING YOU ALL ABOUT IT.

Scott M said...

Scott said: You have two...what's the problem?

Umm, Scott? Better check that anatomy book....


It was irony. I have plenty of that.

ricpic said...

Does scotch neat mean scotch absolutely undiluted? Or can one add a touch of water (as I do) and still be part of the neat club? Or is that blasphemous behavior?

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

You hear that Crack? You don't get to speak for all black folks. Only Montagne gets to do that.

Trooper York said...

I have too side liquor cabinets chock full of every bottle known to man. But since I only drink wine and Jameson (not at the same time) I seldom use any of them.

But when we have someone over I will dust one off and pour some Remy or Johnnie Walker Blue or Patron.

I got a lot of them from when I was doing accounting for a bunch of bars. Luckily they don't go bad.

bagoh20 said...

Some of us have two livers: an old one and a new one, although I can't remember where I left the old one - I was pretty high the day I lost it.

Calypso Facto said...

ricpic: blasphemous, tho better.

FLS: nice citation for something you wish FLOTUS said....

What she DID say was "clean spirits", a Wicca-cum-New Age term:
"Ghosts or Earthbound spirits are disembodied people who have remained attached to the physical realm, that did not move into the light after their physical bodies expired. Ghosts are lost souls, no matter how nice the ghost may seem. When the body dies, the spirit of the person should move unto the light, where loved ones and a feeling of peace, love, and joy are experienced. Departed pure and clean spirits may visit loved ones for different clan reasons and may become a spirit guides, or messenger (angels). Clean spirits are of light and come from the light. Earthbound spirits (ghosts) are not of light, they are lost souls and are in darkness. That does not necessarily mean a ghost will have ill-intent, it simply means the condition of the disembodied spirit is unhealthy."

NTTAWWT

Trooper York said...

The absoulte worst was some Trump vodka that we got when they were trying to peddle that a few years ago.

It made Georgi taste like the Goose.

Not to say that Georgi is bad. I grew up on that.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Yes crack. Just because you're the only black guy who reads this blog, you don't get to speak for all black people everywhere.

On the assumption you're also black that means you don't either. On the other assuption that you're not black, well then you should probably not speak on the topic at all.

Trooper York said...

I personally am not much of a scotch drinker. That was the old mans drink when I was a kid. I preferred the Irish with a stout chaser.

Jason said...

I hope the spirits around Michelle and Barack and their two lovely girls are clean. Articulate and clean. ;-)

It's fun to riff on the language. But Monty is (I can't believe I'm saying this) right. It could well be part of an African-American Christian or Muslim vernacular.*

That said, I can find no Google evidence that that construction has been used among Christian, black or white, prior to Mrs. Obama's.

Loads of references to cleansing one's own spirit, and to "unclean spirits" in general, as former law student points out, which does have a scriptural basis.

But the idea of cleansing spirits around other people, or keeping other impersonal spirits clean through prayer?

Not seeing it.

Then again, a lot of Santeria-influenced Christianity doesn't show up on Google, anyway. The digital divide tends to ensure that black ethnic ideas like that get underrepresented in Google searches. But as a South Florida resident around loads of Haitian immigrants I know it's there.

(I just threw in "Muslim" there to watch libtard heads explode)

WV: Hishes. What Hitch wishes.

Fen said...

Montagne: It's obviously Michelle being BLACK and talking to BLACK FOLKS in BLACK RELIGIOUS VERNACULAR

"Black Liberation Theology will only accept the love of a God that participates in the destruction of the White enemy"

Black Religious Vernacular... lovely.

Frankly, I'd feel safer if Michelle was communing with Eleanor Roosevelt, or whatever other "evil spirits" are hounding her husband.

Hey, maybe she's on to something - Madison and Jefferson truly are rolling over in their graves?

ricpic said...

You can mock the Obamas for their folksy talk, which is an affectation.

So according to Mundane, Michelle and Barry aren't even authentic stupids like Palin and O'Donnell, they're faux stupids, not even able to make the grade in that department.

Trooper York said...

I was quite the beer aficionado back in the day. Not as knowledgeable as Hoosier Daddy or Meade but I picked my spots.

I specialized in ales and stouts. I can't drink light beer because it is like water to me. I would go out to lunch with a client and the waitresses were trained to always to bring a new pint when I was three quarters of the way done. So I would out drink people 3 to1 which wasn't too cool at a business lunch.

So I switched to Guinness's. There is a whole ceremony that goes along with it that slows down the pour. So I could slow down.

I gave up beer more or less in 1994when I started to resemble Jackie Gleason way to much. Strictly wine thereafter.

Trooper York said...

We used to meet at the South St Seaport every Friday during the entire decade of the eighties.

Three buddies of mine who worked on computers on Wall Street would meet up downtown in one of the joints down there.

We would pick a drink for the month and that was what we would all drink for the month when we were bouncing from bar to bar to strip club to after hours.

Remy and water. White Russians. Cuba Libre. Rusty Nails. Boiler makers. Manhattans.
Seagrams and seven. Dewars and water.

Then we would switch it up the next month. Just to see if the bartenders were paying attention.

You might say we were surrounded in spirits.

So to speak.

former law student said...

I preferred the Irish with a stout chaser.

Is this a hint that Troop was a chubby chaser in his youth? Is that why he's in the plus-size business today?

DADvocate said...

The clean spirits I'm most interested in are the charcoal filtered kind from Lynchburg, TN.

Trooper York said...

"Is this a hint that Troop was a chubby chaser in his youth? Is that why he's"

Yes even then I loved a rich bounty of flesh in the search for love.

I recomend it to all.

A skinny woman will cut you man. Just sayn.

1jpb said...

ScottM,

I listened to more than 50% of that one. Neither side looked like a winner. That meeting had a lot more situations where both sides talked past each other as they ran through their well established talking points.

You cons may have like that meeting because you heard your favorite talking points (that don't address the scale of the problem, especially if you look at medical cost projections associated w/ our aging population). But, the libs probably liked it because they heard their jabber points (that, even though they say otherwise, will necessarily result in limiting care, though not exactly "death panels"). For me, it was boring.

Scott M said...

1j

Even if I had never heard of a conservative or a liberal, health care or not, watching that debate would have told me one thing. The people seated to the right of the president (the left from the viewer, irony?) came to the table with anecdote after anecdote about pathetic individual people and their sob stories. The people on the other side seemed to be far better prepared for a policy debate rather than trying to one-up the other side on heart-string plucking.

Caught in the middle of all of it, the President didn't look like he was firmly in control (who would, really, given the ego quotient in that room and in the presence of cameras). It didn't go very well.

And it doesn't matter if it was boring or not, frankly. All of it is boring put up against, say, a Harley VRSCX with a mono swingarm. That's not the point.

Robert Cook said...

"First you need to solve the problem of union leadership corruption. Then you need to solve the problem of union mechanisms that protect the least productive, make it nearly impossible to censure or fire people, and make increasing unrealistic life-long promises. Come up with fixes for those problems and a reasonable discussion can ensue."

I agree there are problems that have become entrenched in the unions, primarily coming from corrupt leadership. But then, why should the unions reflect a different aspect of human nature than corporations or governments, where corruption and rot set in at the top and infect the policies spreading out from there? As the man said, "power corrupts."

That said, unions at their best do provide their members with a base of power from which to negotiate for acceptable wages and benefits, a base of power the individual worker lacks. Unions have enabled manual laborers to buy homes and cars and enjoy lives that are not, essentially, ceaseless toil. Much of what we all enjoy as standard employment benefits can be credited to unions.

All systems will atrophy over time and develop flaws and failures. The decision to be made is: reform the system and remedy the flaws, or scrap the system entirely and start over? (There's no one answer that will fit all in such cases.)

Methadras said...

Yeah, can't have those unclean evil joo-joo (jew-jew) spirits around them now can we? Fucking idiots.

Trooper York said...

Back in the eighties a girl would order a sea breeze or a bay breeze. Or even worse a Long Island Iced tea. Man I thought those were some of the worst drinks ever devised by the mind of man.

And then the cosmopolitan came around.

Trooper York said...

You never wanted to be feeding Long Island Iced teas to a girl all night long.

Guarantied to throw up on you in the taxi.

Guarantied

Scott M said...

Agreed, Robert, but as visceral as you were against corporations upthread, one could easily right a nice pro-corporation paragraph to mirror your pro-union one. In fact, one could also counter your pro-union "all the things we enjoy we can thank unions for" comment by pointing out that our standard of living has an awful lot to do with corporate competition and innovation. That computer you're blogging on, for instance...

1jpb said...

ScottM,

You're being conned. The R numbers don't add up.

It's Medicaid that blows up our budget. And, the only way to control it is w/ limitations on health care. And, only the Ds have put together a plan to make these cuts. We need to be able to review electronic medical data to suss out the waste, fraud, and abuse (just like financial services company's use algorithms to look for irregularities). And, we need to comb through this data (while keeping patient names in a completely inaccessible data vault) to identify the procedures and processes work and are cost effective. Palin and many cons refer to this sort of effort as "death panels."

So, you can have fun talking about trial lawyers, crossing state lines, revenue transfers from the State to private insurance companies via vouchers. The joke is on you.

1jpb said...

Medicaid should by Medicare.

Oh well.

TMink said...

Part of the belief system of evangelical Christians is that the material world is only a part of the totality of reality. What we experience is but a part of what is going on.

As part of this world view, people see things in terms of spiritual warfare. People under the influece of Christ's enemy, Satan, are used by the forces of evil to disrupt and discourage people who are doing God's will. When this is perceived to be going on, protective prayers are offered up to bind the forces of evil in the name of Christ.

So she is saying that the devil is trying to stop God's work by hampering Obama's agenda, which she offers as God's agenda.

It is interesting that the majority of evangelical Christians have a very different take. We see the election of her husband as a curse upon America for the murder of 1,000,000 innocent unborn a year and so called mainstream denominations making policies that are in violation of Scripture and denying the sole divinity of Christ. Among other things.

We (I am one of them) believe that the country will be blessed again when Christians humbly repent of our hubris and idolatry. In a strange way, if you are not a Christian, this has little to do with you.

I mean, as Christians, we are given the Holy Spirit who tells us right from wrong. We have less excuse for our sinful behaviors. If you are not saved, you are supposed to be clueless to the eternal implications of your choices. This also makes it imperative for us to love those that oppose and hate us. We view you as deceived.

Obviously, Christians, myself included, need to do a MUCH better job on that last part.

Trey

Trooper York said...

Now beer was also a terrible thing to be feeding the young ladies. Most of them didn't want to drink it for caloric reasons. And the fact that they always had to go to the john and the bathrooms were always disgusting and crowded all at the same time.

Plus they would always fart in the taxicab. Every time.

Guarantied.

Suburbanbanshee said...

There's a World of Warcraft forum post from 2009 which claims that "ta keep da spirits clean" you need to do voodoo sacrifices. (It's an in-character post for a Troll guild, so maybe Sasha and Malia are on WoW....) Somebody else has a post from 2005 on his blog saying that you burn sage "to keep the spirits clean and the environment blessed". It doesn't seem to be a normal expression; or perhaps its time has come and gone.

And yes, "unclean spirits" is a Judeo-Christian expression; but "clean spirits" and "keep the spirits clean" is not.

Scott M said...

1j

You are wrong, sir. I have a self-managed HSA that has worked flawlessly for me since 2005. I'm being required, through the overwhelming coercion of the federal government, to buy into it. Thanks for that. I'm sure my family, forced to buy into someone else's idea of what their health care should be, will thank you and yours.

Trooper York said...

Now you don't want to be doing tequila shooters with the girls either. I mean it does get them liquored up quicker but they always end up getting in the wrong taxicab.

With some guy named Jose.

Guarantied.

1jpb said...

ScottM,

Don't be overly dramantic.

Hoosier Daddy said...

It's Medicaid [Medicare] that blows up our budget. And, the only way to control it is w/ limitations on health care.

2010 Medicare outlays are estimated around $510 billion. Toss in Soc. Sec. and you're well over one trillion and that's entitlements for around 16% of the population.

Naturally we don't need to limit benefits but instead increase the payroll tax to fund these programs. Many say that the country boomed when tax rates were much higher so perhaps we need to go back to the good old days when tax rates were 70%.

Clyde said...

Sounds like voodoo to me, although that seems kind of odd for someone with a Chicago birth certificate. Of the two, I thought she was the one whose nativity was unquestioned.

Trooper York said...

Wine became the best thing to order. Especially if you paid corkage and they had your stuff behind the bar instead of the swill they normally stocked. So you could drink something great and the girls could enjoy it and learn about the vintage as you indulged and imbibed to your hearts content.

It made for a very mellow ride in the taxicab. Every time

Guarantied.

GMay said...

1jpb said: "But, they were wiped out by BHO, unplugged."

Oh, so this is one of those instances where Blogger is allowing posts from alternate realities again.

"I watched the entire thing, and it was obvious that he had the Rs on their heels. The best proof of this was that the Rs said they would never participate in a situation like this again."

Republicans didn't want to do another one of those events (in this reality) because the President evaded, redirected, and obfuscated and couldn't be held accountable. He was getting his ass handed to him and so he had to give one of those 17 minute answers where he changes the subject.

I see you're still able to buy into his bullshit like the poor fools he duped at election time.

lokipro said...

Maybe it's a Southern thing, but unclean spirits used profusely in the Christian lexicon. Biblical references to unclean spirits:

(Mark 6:7) he gave them power against unclean spirits;
(Luke 11:24) When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man
5:8 come out of the man, thou unclean spirit;
Mark 4:36 commandeth the unclean spirits, and they came out;

1jpb said...

GMay,

You think that the Rs won't do this any more because they don't want to embarrass the POTUS. They're all heart.

William said...

It's an interesting, almost poetic locution. And taupe is a fine word that only someone who scored very high in the verbal SAT's would use. My only quibble is that such locutions and words are discordant. They're not pretentious or unclear, but they leave one with the vague sense that the speaker is in a different place than the listener.

Menley said...

"Maybe it's a Southern thing, but unclean spirits used profusely in the Christian lexicon."

The NIV says "evil spirits" instead. I've never heard of clean spirits. It's like uncouth and couth; people generally don't say couth, which is the back-formation of uncouth.

The modern view is that people who were looked upon as demon-possessed in the first century probably had epilepsy or a similar problem. But obviously Jesus treated the man who lived in the tombs in Mark 5 as being possessed by an evil spirit.

Palladian said...

Any unwanted and unused bottles of gin may be sent directly to me.

Palladian said...

"It's an interesting, almost poetic locution. And taupe is a fine word that only someone who scored very high in the verbal SAT's would use. My only quibble is that such locutions and words are discordant. They're not pretentious or unclear, but they leave one with the vague sense that the speaker is in a different place than the listener."

I disagree with you regarding 'taupe'. It's a foreign word (French, meaning "mole") so it's not descriptive or precise to the average English speaker. It would be more clear, less pretentious and more interesting to use the descriptive phrase "mole-colored" in place of the word 'taupe'. 'Mole' is a good Middle English word and conjures up a concrete image in the mind of most English speakers. 'Taupe' doesn't, unless you're French.

Palladian said...

And 'puce' is also an unacceptable color name: another French word, another off-putting animal, this time a flea.

ddh said...

I immediately thought of Miyazaki's Spirited Away. The spirits were unhappy about pollution.

traditionalguy said...

Advice from Apostle paul: "Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit..."(2Cor 7:1). That sounds like we have to chose it ourselves. Filthiness of the spirit is what Crack tells everyone about on his blog, The Macho Response. It seems that the New Age has always been around testing people's faith.

c3 said...

ou can mock the Obamas for their folksy talk, which is an affectation, like Bush's Texas talk.

Uhh MM, wasn't George Bush FROM Texas (i.e. raised in Texas) So I'd assume when he didn't have the Texas twang THAT was an affectation.

lokipro said...

Menley,
You can pick and choose what version of the Bible you prefer to use, there are PLENTY to choose from. The fact is 'unclean spirits' is used in and stems from Christianity.

My statement was directed at the silliness of the comment: "What religion is that? Is she dabbling in... New Age? Is she a witch?"

While I could care less what Michele says, trying to tie her words to witchcraft, when they are obviously Christian in origin is ridiculous.