October 26, 2010

Finally some good news for Democrats.

A fortuitous head-stomping lifts lefty hearts.

ADDED: I'm trying to understand the scope of the political theater depicted in the video and reported here. The woman, a Moveon.org employee, came to the debate to create a scene, we're told, by presenting a joke "award" to Ron Paul.
In the video from CNN affiliate WDRB, several men wearing Rand Paul shirts or stickers are seen ripping a blonde wig off the head of Lauren Valle and pushing her to the ground. One of the men stomps on her shoulder with his foot, which then lands on the side of her head.
Are the men in the T-shirts also from Moveon.org? Who were they? There were no arrests and though there was a crowd, no one bothered to have detained these men. Did they just melt back into the night? It's very convenient that these bad actors were wearing labels identifying them.
"We don't know the suspect. We're in the process of trying to review the video tapes," said Lt. Edward Hart. "Where this took place, there were no police officers."

All of the people who accosted Valle in the video are subject to charges, Hart said.

Valle, who complained of soreness to her temple, told police she would seek medical attention herself.
So her head was on the curb and her neck was stomped, but she will go off and take care of herself?

I'm skeptical!

AND: Perhaps the reason the crowd did not detain the men is that, in person, it did not look as brutal as it seems in the short video clip — a clip that has the words "head" and "stomp" near it. What was the woman doing before the men activated themselves to stop her? Also, look closely. There is no head stomp. The head is on the curb, but the foot presses down on the shoulder. That ends pretty quickly. That restraint might be a reason to speculate that the men were part of some Moveon.org theater, but it could also mean that the men felt they needed to stop her — because she was in disguise and rushing toward the candidate? — and they reacted quickly. There is force, but they soon back off. I'm not endorsing their judgment about what amount of force was appropriate, but perhaps I can see reason to think that they may have been motivated not by their preexisting propensity toward violence, but by the purpose of protecting the candidate.

UPDATE: The "stomper" comes forward. He's a real Rand Paul volunteer, and he's apologized. I'm really glad he's come forward:
Paul supporter Tim Profitt said video of the scuffle made it appear worse than it was and he chided police for not stepping in....
"I'm sorry that it came to that, and I apologize if it appeared overly forceful, but I was concerned about Rand's safety," Profitt told The Associated Press....

"A friend of mine went up to three policeman before Rand got there, and told them about the girl who was standing there with that wig on and that she was getting ready to do something," Profitt said. "The policemen looked at him and said that's not our job."
UPDATE 2: Day 2 of this discussion begins here.

605 comments:

1 – 200 of 605   Newer›   Newest»
Clyde said...

Actually, it looked more like a shoulder stomping. Violence isn't acceptable in any case, however, it seems quite possible that they might have seen her as a potential Sirhan Sirhan or Mark David Chapman type.

As far as what she did, well, it's like a Red Sox fan walking into Yankee Stadium (or vice versa) and talking smack. If you're that badly outnumbered and start trouble, it's not going to end well for you.

AlphaLiberal said...

Perfect. Althouse blames Democrats for Teabaggers assaulting a woman.

Wingers:
"Don't Tread on me. I'm the one who gets to tread on people"

Latest news is that Rand Paul refuses to condemn violence.

jsled said...

Yes, everyone's cheering about this wonderful low point in American political discourse. :p

Salamandyr said...

I hope the victim is okay. This kind of behavior is unacceptable. I'm sorry to see Republicans acting like Lefty union thugs. Leave that kind of behavior to the SEIU, we're supposed to be better than that.

AlphaLiberal said...

Sal, you're not. you're worse. Far worse.

The metaphorical equivalent for this is the Corporate executives dumping corporate money into our election process to buy themselves some Congresscritters to pass tax cuts, deregulate and otherwise give them free reign to pillage and plunder.

damikesc said...

Only unions can do this.

jsled said...

Stay classy, Clyde. Blaming the victim and comparing her to assassins is *totally* justified, here. Also, it was a political debate, where you, I dunno, might expect supporters to "talk smack". I'm not sure why either venue (politics or sports) would justify physical violence, though.

Fred4Pres said...

Alphaliberal Teabaggers? Is there another Stonewall happening?

AlphaLiberal said...

American democracy was thrown to the curb by the activist Roberts court who passed the Citizens United decision, giving secret corporate money free reign.

Now it's being spent 7:1 for the Rs. Even the companies who were rescued by the Obama Admin, like the US automakers, are getting behind the Republicans by trying buy seats for them. Amazing.

this helps the corporate agenda of:
* Low wages
* Shipping jobs offshore
* Gutting environmental protection
* shifting taxes from the wealthy to everyone else.

It's the agenda that's hollowing out the American middle class.

Fred4Pres said...

damikesc said...
Only unions can do this.

10/26/10 9:54 AM


It's a union job.

AlphaLiberal said...

Fred4, you guys took that label. even did a video embracing it. We just have a sense of humor about it.

Salamandyr said...

Alpha, the literal equivalent to this was when SEIU thugs stomped a man outside a townhall meeting here in St. Louis. It's not the only time it's happened, though mostly it stays at the level of physical intimidation rather than physical assault.

Who cares about metaphor?

damikesc said...

AL, all Citizens United did was overturn the precedent ending of McConnell v FEC. So, its back to how the law was for all but about 7 years of our history.

Why do you oppose free speech so?

Clyde said...

@ jsled

Puh-leeze! The woman was trying to rush the candidate, with who knows what motives. In this case, she wasn't a would-be assassin, but you only know that in retrospect after someone is bleeding his life out on the ground.

"Blame the victim"? Yeah, for doing something stupid. It backfired on her.

Bottom line, if you try to rush a candidate through a crowd of his supporters, this is what happens, whether he's a Republican, Democrat or whatever.

James said...

You gotta crack a few eggs to make an omelette.

Salamandyr said...

Clyde,

that justifies restraint, but not hitting people, or kicking them.

Is it just me or is it hilarious that we finally have an instance of Republicans engaged in actual malfeasance and Alphaliberal wants to change the subject?

garage mahal said...

This can all be explained!

k*thy said...

The guy can't handle people disagreeing with him. What a coward (and it's caught on tape?)

Godot said...

The link is bad. Resolves to:

http://althouse.blogspot.com/%EF%BB%BFhttp://www.memeorandum.com/101026/p10#a101026p10

DADvocate said...

The video didn't come up for me. Here's the youtube link.

While violence should play no part in elections (hear that SEIU and New Black Panthers?), it also appears this was a set up by MoveOn.org.

Police say that Lauren Valle, an employee with the Liberal group MoveOn.Org, was stomped on by a man wearing a "Rand Paul for Senate" T-shirt.



Valle told police she was attempting to get a picture with Paul holding a sign she made to embarrass him in commercials.

Valle was arrested in May for a Greenpeace protest in Louisiana following the B.P. oil spill, and in 2008 she was detained in China for a "Free Tibet" protest.

Police say she refused medical treatment.

According to a Kentucky Post report, a second fight occurred after a Jack Conway supporter stepped on the foot of a Rand Paul supporter who recently had foot surgery.

The woman was wearing a surgical boot but an incision was cut open.

Police say she refused medical treatment but filed an assault report. No arrests were made at the debate.


Watching the video, it's apparent she wasn't hurt much.

Please note that an obviously injured woman was attacked by a Conway supporter.

The humor in this particular race for me is that my ex-wife has a brother, who lives in Kentucky, by the name of Jack Conway (not the one running) who has numerous DUIs and other legal troubles.

Salamandyr said...

Fred4, you guys took that label. even did a video embracing it. We just have a sense of humor about it.

Alpha, please get this through your head. What one person does or says is not necessarily indicative of what everybody else wants. It's an insulting term to the great majority of tea party participants. You know it's offensive to them, and your use of it is indicative that you're a low class individual. Stop it. Be a better person than that.

bgates said...

Knocking a political opponent to the ground is completely unacceptable, and the person responsible should be found and either prosecuted or elected to the Senate, like Al Franken was after he tackled a heckler at a Howard Dean rally.

Pogo said...

Islam and the SEIU have proven that violence and threats of violence are rewarded.

I expect more of this over the next two years, as the economy slides and the gubmint haves come more into stark contrast with the avg-joe have-nots.

Ann Althouse said...

"Perfect. Althouse blames Democrats for Teabaggers assaulting a woman."

Where did I do that? You need to read better. This post is about how happy the incident has made lefty bloggers, who have been looking for months and months for support for their belief that "teabaggers" must be violent. A woman set out to create an incident to make Paul look bad and though she didn't get that, she got some Paul supporters to look bad stopping her. Of course, they were bad to be violent, but I choose to focus on something else.

damikesc said...

For what its worth, it was done to a Moveon member. Who doesn't want to curb stomp one?

Moose said...

What's the deal with the wig?

AlphaLiberal said...

Saw more video and saw no evidence of rushing, just lots of people jostling.

I am struck by these punks beating on a woman. What jerks. then one grabs her boob to cop a handful when she's down.

AlphaLiberal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
AlphaLiberal said...

Ann, I'm tired from the late Dylan show and "blame" was imprecise. You did not "blame" the Dems exactly, but you used it as an excuse to ridicule/taunt Dems.

"fortuitous head-stomping" does make it sound like something she or the Democrats wanted.

Also, you don't speak out against the hooliganism. No, I do not think it goes without saying anymore that people oppose this.

Jason said...

Did he bite off her finger?

Fen said...

For what its worth, it was done to a Moveon member.

Good. Thats one Brownshirt thug who has been taught a lesson.

Who's wants to be next? You guys brought the violence to otherwise peaceful protests, and we've finally responded in kind.

You want more? Because we're armed with guns, and you're armed with billy clubs.

Fen said...

Alpha: "fortuitous head-stomping" does make it sound like something she or the Democrats wanted.

Like you guys don't have a history of staging shit for your MSM toadies?

You're worse than the Pali's.

Ann Althouse said...

Alpha, why do you think the men were not detained so they could be arrested? Do you think there is any chance that all participants were from MoveOn.org? The women was a fake Paul supporter identified with a label. How do we know the men weren't that too? Dirty tricks. We know she started off on a dirty trick. Were the guys who stopped her part of the trick? If not, why didn't she interact more with the police over her injuries? Why didn't the people in the crowd detain the thugs? Isn't this rather fishy?

Scott M said...

Did he bite off her finger?

Better question. Was she actually injured or just restrained, however unceremoniously? Kenneth Gladney was pummeled and sent to the hospital by union thugs who fled the police after the incident. Any similarity there?

Violence in American politics is wrong no matter who's doing it. That being said, one side will get far, far more mileage out of this than the other for all the standard reasons.

Fen said...

Alpha: No, I do not think it goes without saying anymore that people oppose this.

You laughed when SEIU Goons beat down an "uncle tom" for handing out bumperstickers. You laughed when MoveOn Thugs bit off a man's finger.

Now, all-of-a-sudden, we're supposed to believe you abhore violence? Where were you then?

You were laughing about it. So don't get Righteous on us now.

bagoh20 said...

Incredibly offensive that no one bothered to get her a nice Pilates mat before gently lying her down. Ron Paul's people should have those on hand just in case. It shows how incredibly ill prepared he is to be in congress.

DADvocate said...

"fortuitous head-stomping" does make it sound like something she or the Democrats wanted.

Sure looks like they did.

damikesc said...

Until I see proof these weren't Moveon loons staging it, I don't buy anything. No way she doesn't press charges unless she's with them.

Ann Althouse said...

" "fortuitous head-stomping" does make it sound like something she or the Democrats wanted."

Yes! I think the lefty bloggers are thrilled that they got this. That's one reason I suspect the whole incident of being theater. Other reasons: The men weren't caught. The woman didn't let the police take her to the hospital.

Did the woman sign a report to the police that would expose her to a penalty of perjury if it were false?

shoutingthomas said...

Looks like a completely staged incident to me, Alpha.

Remember all those staged hate crimes?

I suspect that both perpetrators and victim are members of moveOn.

You're pretty gullible. Of course, you want to believe this little show.

bagoh20 said...

I love the smell of smell of desperation in the morning. It smells like...victory.

TRO said...

The guys should be prosecuted. Whether it's for assault or faking the whole thing I don't know yet.

Fen said...

"Perfect. Althouse blames Democrats for Teabaggers assaulting a woman."

BTW, I know you guys think its cute to use homophobic slurs on the internet.

Don't try in person. We'll knock you out.

AlphaLiberal said...

Fen is such a special case:

"You laughed when SEIU Goons beat down an "uncle tom" for handing out bumperstickers. You laughed when MoveOn Thugs bit off a man's finger."

I did?

a) That guy was not "beaten down" he fell to the ground like a Drama Queen in a High School play.

b) No, I didn't laugh at biting off the finger. That was messed up, even if the guy losing the finger did punch him first. (Links to earlier discussion below)

What you have here is multiple MEN throwing a WOMAN to the ground and then continuing to shove or kick her into the curb.

You guys will defend anything as long as your team is doing it.
------------------------
Great finger Biting Incident of 2008
http://althouse.blogspot.com/2009/09/65-year-old-was-apparently-aggressive.html?showComment=1252020849418#c747003063905852818

Even though the dude punched him in the face, he shouldn't have bitten the dude's finger off. that was an escalation. He should have done a sweeping kick or something to knock the other guy down and stop his attacks.

"Fact is, ALE, this is another example of escalating right wing militancy and violence. If you're claiming that a series of escalating incidents and dangerously unhinged threat rhetoric, corporate-financed disinformation campaigns, and the like are all completely unrelated, you're keeping a "See no evil" blind approach."

Zachary Paul Sire said...

I'm skeptical!

LOL. Of course you are.

garage mahal said...

Got to go to Instahack and see how he is spinning this. Should be good.

Scott M said...

a) That guy was not "beaten down" he fell to the ground like a Drama Queen in a High School play.

Yes, in fact, he did. I had friends, both conservative and liberal, that were there. I would have been too (it's only a few miles from here) If I hadn't had the rugrats to ride herd on that night.

Zachary Paul Sire said...

Other reasons: The men weren't caught.

LOL! So, crimes where the suspects get away weren't really crimes. You're on fire this morning.

Ann Althouse said...

Why isn't anyone dealing with the points I've made to raise doubts about the scope of fakery here?

Lack of response supports the inference that you have no answers for me.

The men should be arrested and prosecuted. Come on! I want them caught and identified! BEFORE THE ELECTION.

traditionalguy said...

Scary wingers beating up a woman, and just in time for halloween. The Rand paul T-Shirt will now become a scary costume. The phrase "October Surprise" means a terrible and shocking event/revelation that cannot be debunked in the short time remaining before an election one week away. I blame Jeremy. It looks like his work.

Fen said...

Alpha: That guy was not "beaten down" he fell to the ground like a Drama Queen in a High School play.

Fine, we'll use your own standard:

"Lauren Valle was not attacked, the men in the video are merely helping her sit down."

Thats how stupid you look with your situational ethics.

Ann Althouse said...

" So, crimes where the suspects get away weren't really crimes. You're on fire this morning."

When a crowd is around a women being brutalized, I expect the crowd to detain the men. ABSOLUTELY. Why were they allowed to get away? I suspect fakery. You have no answer to that.

Comrade X said...

if this was done by teabaggers and paints the movement violent as a whole, what did 9/11 do again?

bagoh20 said...

"You guys will defend anything as long as your team is doing it. "

Who's team? That's still up for grabs. If it turns out to be staged, I'll be here to see the apologies. I'm not busy this year.

Salamandyr said...

Until it's confirmed that this was fraud, I think we Conservatives should assume it's real, and condemn it. Conservatives are not angels, refusing to accept that people on our side can do something wrong just makes us look willful. Physical restraint of someone rushing a political candidate is one thing, knocking them to the ground and kicking them is completely another.

If this does turn out to be fraud though, and I admit there is a certain odor to the story, then the woman, and all other participants should be prosecuted.

Ann Althouse said...

17 minutes. Still waiting for a real response.

AJ Lynch said...

The MSM is freaking out that Reps might win big. Last night, Wolf Blitzer leads off his show with a segment on Christine O'Donnell. Can you imagine how they would downplay these elections if it was a Dem upstart running?? Maybe the sound of crickets?

Scott M said...

if this was done by teabaggers and paints the movement violent as a whole, what did 9/11 do again?

Excellent question.

edutcher said...

Assuming for the sake of argument damikesc's point ("Until I see proof these weren't Moveon loons staging it, I don't buy anything.") is false, jumping this twit was the job of the police, but she should have been restrained. The last time something like this happened Mark David Chapman just wanted to impress a girl.

PS Cute how Alpha can hold his hands over his ears as he yells, "La la la la la", while typing.

bagoh20 said...

"Can you imagine how they would downplay these elections if it was a Dem upstart running?? Maybe the sound of crickets?"

Where is the Alvin Green coverage? A wonderful Cinderella story with a Democrat veteran no less.

Truth is, he's the least offensive Dem running.

AlphaLiberal said...

Fakery? WTF? Bullshit. Now you're fabricating excuses. Shame on you, Ann Althouse!

You have no actual evidence or reason to suspect fakery. Are you familiar with "evidence?" Or is mere assertion sufficient.

See this video:
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/10/new-footage-emerges-of-moveon-activist-stomped-by-rand-paul-supporter-video.php?ref=fpblg


1) The guy who grabs her, back to camera, is wearing a Rand Paul t-shirt.

2) The other people grabbing her and throwing her to the ground are HOLDING Rand Paul signs.

3) the guy who stomps on her head is holding a Rand Paul campaign sign in his hand .

The new Ann Althouse can never bring herself to criticize anything by conservatives, even a group of men throwing a woman to the curb and beating and stomping her.

wow.

traditionalguy said...

Who knew. The Tea Party is actually escalating right wing militancy. Janet Napolitano must be right after all directing that Terror Watch Lists must be first made up of Obama's political opponents. The ones not involved in mass women beatings that look like the famous image of a protestor being beaten at the German American Bund Convention in 1940, why they are probably Global Warming Deniers that need arresting anyway. Eternal vigilance is the price of victory...victory in an election a week away that is.

former law student said...

In the video from CNN affiliate WDRB

"CNN Affiliate"? WDRB is Fox 41. If you can't trust Fox News, who can you trust? "Fair and balanced."


More good news for Democrats: GOP candidate for Governor longs for the good old days -- when Jerry Brown was governor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEPlZYp5-Pk

Fen said...

Ann: 17 minutes. Still waiting for a real response.

I don't understand the question.

If you're saying why are more of you offering opinions on whether it was staged by MoveOn, I would respond that its because we've become accustomed to Lefties doing risable things to get punched in front of the camera.

I remember at the 2000 protests outside of the VP's mansion - all the MSM toadies were 20 feet away when a Gore supporter slammed a 10 year old girl into the pavement - not a single camera filmed it, not a single reporter mentioned it. But an hour later, when Gore Goons rushed our corner and "got in our face" the camera's were all there rolling. Because the narrative was "republican violence".

Same old game.

AJ Lynch said...

Lauren's parents must be so proud of her. I wonder if they are wackadoodle far left libs too?

Maguro said...

1) The guy who grabs her, back to camera, is wearing a Rand Paul t-shirt.

That's some brilliant detective work...you must be a retired FBI agent or something. Did you remove your shades, David Caruso style, as you typed that?

Fen said...

Alpha: You have no actual evidence or reason to suspect fakery.

Yes she does. This is a pattern from the Democrats. Get in their face and get them to hit you - but only when the cameras are rolling.

Jim_J said...

That was hippie punching or rather, hippie stomping.

At least she didn't get her finger tip bitten off.

Rialby said...

Who filmed this?

Quaestor said...

If it was a real assault by Tea Party supporters against a MoveOn operative then it stand to reason MoveOn would make every effort to extract political benefit from the incident ie, file a police report, swear out a complaint, etc.

The St. Louis Tea Party organization exploited the SIEU assault on Kenneth Gladney in just this way by using every means, including police measures, to keep the fundamental brutality of the Democrat/Union alliance before the public eye -- basic Alinski tactics which the Tea Party movement has turned against the Left with amazing effectiveness.

The fact that Lauren Valle has not fully cooperated with police suggests a staged piece of black propaganda. Typical.

Scott M said...

Get in their face and get them to hit you - but only when the cameras are rolling.

Or spit on you...but then you have to lie about it and later claim that you weren't spit on in the first place.

shoutingthomas said...

1) The guy who grabs her, back to camera, is wearing a Rand Paul t-shirt.

2) The other people grabbing her and throwing her to the ground are HOLDING Rand Paul signs.

3) the guy who stomps on her head is holding a Rand Paul campaign sign in his hand .

Are you telling us, Alpha, that moveOn members cannot buy Rand Paul t-shirts and signs?

garage mahal said...

The beauty of this post is that it will be on the internet forever.

AlphaLiberal said...

Didn't see this.

Alpha, why do you think the men were not detained so they could be arrested? Do you think there is any chance that all participants were from MoveOn.org? The women was a fake Paul supporter identified with a label. How do we know the men weren't that too? Dirty tricks. We know she started off on a dirty trick. Were the guys who stopped her part of the trick? If not, why didn't she interact more with the police over her injuries? Why didn't the people in the crowd detain the thugs? Isn't this rather fishy?

A) I don't know. There are many explanations, including they ran away, they were not ID'ed. but that doesn't lead a rational person to a reasonable conclusion that they were with her. (wha?)

B) I think the possibility that MoveOn volunteers threw one of their one to the ground is vanishingly remote.

C) the "fake label" is a MoveOn spoof called "RepubliCorps."
http://republicorp.us/
She was part of a spoof. Political theater. It's not a "dirty trick," for PEte's sake (so Althouse thinks it's OK to beat people doing political spoofs?)

C) She did talk with the police. what does that question even mean?

D) the people in the crowd did not detain the thugs because it was a heavily Rand Paul crowd and they protected the thugs, much as you do here by blaming MoveOn for their actions.

E) No, it's not fishy at all. You reject Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation - in lieu of a complicated conspiracy theory that has no foundation in fact or evidence.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

17 minutes. Still waiting for a real response.

I would assume that SOMEbody knows who these people are. Surely they have some friends, associates, history. They didn't just appear out of thin air.

It would be easy to identify them and determine if the men were actual Ron Paul supporters or if they were plants/actors attempting to create an incident.

Why doesn't Rand Paul's organization or 'real' supporters take the lead and ferret out just WHO are these people. They need to get on to this immediately.

If they are fakes and staged the incident, then we need to have this information out ASAP. If they were really injuring that woman, irregardless of who she is, they should be arrested for assault.

The entire thing seems fishy to me.

tim maguire said...

It is disappointing, this is the sort of behavior I expect from the SEIU (yes, AL, you are worse, much worse, not that I expect you do any soul searching about your role in the dumbing down of political debate). But I'd like to see the altercation from the beginning. I can't help but notice she's got Rand Paul placards under her arm. Did she bring them as camouflage? Or did she tear them from attendees who struck back in self-defense? Notice, those are male voices shouting for the police--and therefore not the "victim".

It's a fair question. Somebody should be arrested, but this video does not make it absolutely clear who.

former law student said...

The men should be arrested and prosecuted. Come on! I want them caught and identified! BEFORE THE ELECTION.

Anyone with information should call the Lexington KY police, according to the website of the Lexington Herald-Leader:

[Police spokeswoman Sherelle]Roberts said police are treating the incident as an assault investigation. No suspects had been named Tuesday morning.

Anyone with information on the identities of the men is asked to call Lexington police at (859) 258-3600.

Lexington Police Lt. Edward Hart said Monday night that he had not received any indication the woman received medical treatment.

Ann Althouse said...

"You have no actual evidence or reason to suspect fakery. Are you familiar with "evidence?" Or is mere assertion sufficient. "

My evidence is looking at the video, reading the press report about the interaction with the police and analyzing the circumstances. Something doesn't smell right. There were lots of people around and the incident was conspicuous. Why were the men not detained? Obviously, it was a dirty trick by Moveon.org up to a point. The only question is the scope of the dirty trick. Also, it's odd that people keep saying that her head was stomped on. Her shoulder is pushed with the foot in a manner that looks somewhat restrained, like a pulled punch.

See this video:
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/10/new-footage-emerges-of-moveon-activist-stomped-by-rand-paul-supporter-video.php?ref=fpblg


"1) The guy who grabs her, back to camera, is wearing a Rand Paul t-shirt. "

Yes, that's fully supportive of the fakery claim. It's *convenient* that the apparent thugs are wearing labels.

"2) The other people grabbing her and throwing her to the ground are HOLDING Rand Paul signs. "

Yes. That's my point. This is the crowd that I would like identified because they do not do what normal people would do and detain assailants. I want to know the scope of the pre-election political theater.

"3) the guy who stomps on her head is holding a Rand Paul campaign sign in his hand . "

Yes, my point exactly. Labels are convenient.

"The new Ann Althouse can never bring herself to criticize anything by conservatives, even a group of men throwing a woman to the curb and beating and stomping her."

I'm completely opposed to violence. I'm also skeptical of phony theater, which we know this incident *was* to some unknown extent. The woman was pretending to be a Rand Paul supporter delivering an award. She was not. Did she arrive alone or with confederate fakers? Did she file a police report? Did she ever go to a hospital? Did she behave like a bona fide victim?

It's important to find out BEFORE THE ELECTION.

Fen said...

Cute how Alpha can hold his hands over his ears as he yells, "La la la la la", while typing.

I think Alpha's upset because beating up protestors is Union Work.

k*thy said...

Why were they allowed to get away? I suspect fakery. You have no answer to that.

I see your point, but how about...they blended into the crowd and snuck away? Like cowards. Seems as plausible.

Ann Althouse said...

If other Rand Paul supporters know who these men are, they should contact the police. They should draw a clear line between themselves and this bad actors.

Obviously, there are a lot of people there. The men should be identified to the police.

Alex said...

Now it's being spent 7:1 for the Rs.

Scoreboard. We own you.

AlphaLiberal said...

Well, this is a new low for Ann Althouse and her reactionary minions.

We have video from a freaking FoxNews station showing people wearing and holding Rand Paul campaign materials.

And you self-deluded people conclude it was all a grand conspiracy.

There is no hope of reasoning with people like this. Facts and evidence have no relation whatsoever to their world view.

You're like a cult. Hopeless. I need to move on.

Meade said...

Rialby said...
"Who filmed this?"

Dan Rather
Why?

Fen said...

The Left has been infiltrating Tea Party rallies to pose as members, so they can embarass the Tea Party in front of the MSM at critical moments.

This is just more of the same.

And a good lesson why you should'nt "Cry Wolf" - no one believes you when you see a real one.

former law student said...

You guys are still talking about the night Kenneth Gladney assaulted the Rev. Elston McCowan and fractured McCowan's shoulder.

http://stlactivisthub.blogspot.com/2010/04/exclusive-x-rays-and-medical-reports.html

Ann Althouse said...

I'm getting no good answers to my questions. It's 35 minutes now.

Fprawl said...

I hope I get to serve on the Jury on this one.

shoutingthomas said...

I need to move on.

Perhaps a poor choice of words in this case, huh Alpha?

moveOn, indeed.

Big Mike said...

Althouse blames Democrats for Teabaggers assaulting a woman.

If, in fact, that's what happened. MoveOn is pretty famous for their warped notions of street theater. I find it interesting how this deflects attention from whether Conway (Rand Paul's opponent) gave his brother advance notice of a drug raid on Conway's brother's house, and whether Conway directly or indirectly intervened to get his brother off the hook.

Beth said...

Okay, from now on I'm assuming any accusations against guys in union t-shirts are actually dramatic street theater by Tea Party sock puppets. I like this! It's so much easier than grappling with any flaws on my own side of the fence. Thanks!

Fen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
shoutingthomas said...

But, the logic presented in other posts needs to be answered:

Alpha is screaming about this because he want this incident to be real, not staged. Why? Because, if it is real, then that supposedly tars all Tea Party activists with guilt by association.

But, to point out that Muslims are engaged in a war of terror against the West is bigotry.

Same rules don't apply?

Quaestor said...

Alpha Liberal wrote: "I need to move on."

Yes, you do. The Left needs someone more capable to hold up their end.

damikesc said...

AL, your theory is that a woman seeking to embarrass Rand Paul decides to not file charges when assaulted by his supporters.

Can you provide a logical reason why she wouldn't?

Fen said...

Alpha: Well, this is a new low for Ann Althouse and her reactionary minions.

Yes, all-of-a-sudden you have a problem with violence. Welcome to the club. Better late than never I guess.

We have video from a freaking FoxNews

But you have never considered FOX a reliable source - until today.

And you self-deluded people conclude it was all a grand conspiracy.

No, but we are highly suspicious. And with good reason. If your side didn't routinely pull stunts like this, we would extend the benefit of doubt.

There is no hope of reasoning with people like this. Facts and evidence have no relation whatsoever to their world view. You're like a cult. Hopeless. I need to move on.

Wonderful idea. You're having another meltdown because we don't agree with your hyperbolic analysis. Goodbye.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

You're like a cult. Hopeless. I need to move on.

Bye Bye.

I don't believe everything I see in the papers, on video either. Things can be staged. No...really....they can.

Scepticism is a sign of good mental health. Verify and determine what IS the truth. If the truth is ugly, accept it and change the circumstances.

Believing everything that is hand fed to you by your puppet masters, taking Obama at face value, swallowing the propagada whole.....is the disease of the left.

The left, never questions or looks into the deeper motivations of their leaders; never wonders about the unintended consequences of their actions.

They,like AL, just bleat out the pre programmed talking points like good little robots.

bagoh20 said...

Regardless of who is behind this, the only inappropriate action is by one guy who lightly stomps her shoulder once. It's not a big deal and barely violent. There was no injury, and probably didn't even hurt at the time.

The context of the last year's violence and false accusations by the left is what makes it a story at all. A desperately needed story. The Dems should be proud of where they have taken us in the pursuit of holding power.

Fen said...

Bethj: Okay, from now on I'm assuming any accusations against guys in union t-shirts are actually dramatic street theater by Tea Party sock puppets.

Wrong. And this is what liberals routinely do - distort x to justify doing x.

We have good reason to question this, because its a common play used by the Democrats.

You don't have good reason. You can't point to anything by the Tea Party that establishes a history and pattern of staging violence for the cameras.

AlphaLiberal said...

Also, only to try to disabuse you of your latest delusional conspiracy theory: Wouldn't it be dangerous for a group of people who think right wingers have a tendency toward violence to plan to go into a midst of them and start violence targeted to one of your own?

Really, guys, you're going off the deep end. Some times, people on our teams behave badly and we acquit ourselves best by criticizing people on our own team when they do wrong.

Now, Rand Paul refuses to condemn the violent acts, so far as I've seen of his statements today. But you should really aim higher. Making up a conspiracy is screwy.

Yeesh.

edutcher said...

Fen said...

Alpha: You have no actual evidence or reason to suspect fakery.

Yes she does. This is a pattern from the Democrats. Get in their face and get them to hit you - but only when the cameras are rolling.


Ah, yes, those good old days of protesting the Vietnam War when outfits like SNCC held classes in how to make the cops (or National Guard) look bad by provoking a response.

Remember, these were the people who are the leading lights of the Democrat Party and academia today.

WV "mothers" (no kidding) Make up your own.

Fen said...

Wouldn't it be dangerous for a group of people who think right wingers have a tendency toward violence to plan to go into a midst of them and start violence targeted to one of your own?

Not if they are used to this kind of thing. And looking at Valle's record, this is her MO.

Michael said...

There was no "stomping", there was "foot placing." A good stomp would have had a different, very different, effect. Don't know if it was faked, but it was certainly theatrical. And in the background I keep hearing someone call for the police, but if they came and there were no arrests then I suppose nothing happened.

But if anyone thinks that an out and out head stomping, ass kicking, walloping would change the outcome of this election they would be wrong.

I, for one, advocate violence. I would like, for example, to have Alpha Liberal or Jeremy call me a teabagger to my face. These are the kinds of guys who have never ever been in a fist fight and when their noses go they go.

AlphaLiberal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Alex said...

Basically it's a mini Reichstag fire. Except more of these leading up to Nov 2 in a bid to get centrist voters so horrified by "tea party violence" that they go to the Democrats in droves.

Fen said...

alpha: Really, guys, you're going off the deep end. Some times, people on our teams behave badly and we acquit ourselves best by criticizing people on our own team when they do wrong.

Nope. We're merely skeptical, and with good reason. You guys stage this kind of bullshit all the time.

I'll denounce the violence when you prove the perps aren't MoveOn plants. Thats the price your side pays for using these tactics to begin with.

Big Mike said...

@Professor, perhaps I partially answered your questions? If this incident is a made-up ploy on the part of Moveon.org then the motivation is likely to be to distract public attention from the scandal about Conway likely having tipped off his brother that the brother was under investigation.

Alex said...

Alpha one could easily come up with a list of left-wing extremists who have murdered people. Mumia, Unabomber, ELF come immediately to mind.

traditionalguy said...

Alpha...It is not a conspiracy. It was a performance. You know, like a hollywood stunt man's fight seen complete with glancing blows. The WWF guys do a better "Fight" where they "Stomp" the designated losing actor/wrestler. Did you know that WWF is staged and a 100% fake fighting? Come on man.We know that you are not that dumb.

Alex said...

I'll denounce the violence when you prove the perps aren't MoveOn plants.

Only fair given that the left has demanded the Chamber of Commerce also prove a negative.

AlphaLiberal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
AlphaLiberal said...

OK. We're going there. Political violence is on the rise in America -- and it comes from the right wing:

* Richard Poplawski, a right-wing extremist who shot and killed three Pittsburgh police officers.

* Remember the shooter, Jim David Adkisson, who hates liberals and shot up a liberal church in Tennessee? He was a big O'Reilly and Hannity fan.

* There was the guy who walked into Arkansas Democratic headquarters and shot and killed the state chairman, Bill Gwatney.

* James Von Brunn, white supremacist, shot up the Holocaust museum.

* Scott Roeder, anti-abortion activist and celebrated hero to the anti-abortion movement, shot dead Dr George Tiller.

* Byron Williams was on his way to shoot up the offices of the tides Foundation, a favorite target of right wing leading light Glenn Beck, when police stopped him. He said Beck inspired him.

* Shawna Forde, Minuteman leader, killed an Hispanic father and daughter and left the mother for dead in Arizona. They had other "operations" planned.

* A Michigan militia, the Hutaree, was, thankfully, caught before they could go on a cop-killing spree.

* Timothy McVeigh. US home grown right wing terrorist. (See also The Turner Diaries, a right wing violent political fantasy, which McVeigh liked).

* TN Man Enraged By Obama Sticker Slams SUV Into Car With 10 Year Old Child Inside http://www.wkrn.com/global/story.asp?s=12208009

* Jerry Kane, antigovernment angry right winger who thinks he is a "sovereign citizen," gunned down two cops in Little Rock, May, 2010.

* John Patrick Bedell, anti-government right winger who thought Keynesian economic policies were unconstitutional, shot up the Pentagon in March.

This is a partial list. Any time we have a Democratic President the right wing goes nuts. They're just going a bit more nuts now, thanks to Faux News and other propaganda organs.

former law student said...

Alpha, be fair.

Don't you remember how skeptical the professor was about James O'Keefe's purported expose of ACORN workers facilitating pimps buying brothels to house underaged foreign prostitutes? I mean, how believable was that? Luckily there were no real world consequences from that bit of political theater and video editing.

And now she takes everything Breitbart promotes with a grain of salt.

Quaestor said...

Alpha Liberal wrote: "Wouldn't it be dangerous for a group of people who think right wingers have a tendency toward violence to plan to go into a midst of them...

The leadership of the Left doesn't believe this. They aren't stupid -- evil certainly, but not stupid. But they do say things like "Teabaggers are violent and racist" knowing full well its a lie just to keep their myrmidons juiced up. A high placed MoveOn organizer orchestrated this fraud and choose his operatives well. They all knew they'd be perfectly safe except from a charge or perjury and/or obstruction, hence no police report.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

This is a partial list. Any time we have a Democratic President the right wing goes nuts. They're just going a bit more nuts now, thanks to Faux News and other propaganda organs.

You wanna see nuts? Just wait until the people see just how corrupt the Democrats are in stealing the elections and cheating at the polls.

You ain't seen nuthin' yet.

I thought you were leaving.

Scott M said...

Nice list, Alpha. Assuming it's 100% correct and that you care deeply about it, just what do you, you in particular, propose to do about it other than whining on a blog? Seriously.

Fen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Pastafarian said...

Alpha said: "* A Michigan militia, the Hutaree, was, thankfully, caught before they could go on a cop-killing spree. "

Those would be the idiot Yoopers who were released, without being charged for anything.

damikesc said...

Can you demonstrate that anybody involved was associated with Rand Paul?

I think its wrong to perform bad political theater masquerading as violence. It makes victims of actual violence less willing to come forward. Arrest anybody involved and do it immediately.

Fen said...

How many times have we seen headlines like "angry conservative vandalizes Democratic HQ", only to discover a week later on page 18a that the perp was a registered Democrat working for the campaign?

Waaaay too many times to take this at face value.

And like I said, Alpha, don't expect any apologies if, just this once, you really did see a "wolf". Your side has staged this kind of theatre too many times to deserve one.

In fact, how about you apologize for your side poisoning the well for the last 50 years with your Alinksy theatrics?

shoutingthomas said...

This is a partial list. Any time we have a Democratic President the right wing goes nuts. They're just going a bit more nuts now, thanks to Faux News and other propaganda organs.

Good thing that the left wing retains its equilibrium and calm when we have a Republican president.

Remember how calm and reasonable they were when Bush was president?

They set a fine example, didn't they?

damikesc said...

Can you demonstrate that anybody involved was associated with Rand Paul?

I think its wrong to perform bad political theater masquerading as violence. It makes victims of actual violence less willing to come forward. Arrest anybody involved and do it immediately.

garage mahal said...

Nice crew you hitched your wagon to Althouse.

former law student said...

...left-wing extremists who have murdered people. Mumia, Unabomber...

The Unabomber thought technology was taking away our freedom. Who longs for freedom and the good old days? Sounds like a right-winger to me.

Fen said...

Case in point - Alpha is doing it right now.

We've explained why we are skeptical, any reasonable person can see why we have a right to be.

But Alpha is not interested in Reason. He's all about hyperbole, tarring us a reactiony thugs because we don't immediately denounce violence from "our" side that we believe is faked.

I'll say it again - this election, one side is going to polls armed with billy clubs, the other side is going armed with video cameras. Guess which side Alpha is aligned with?

Fen said...

Oh, Beth is another one who doing the same thing. Remember that next time she asks for your good-faith attempt to understand her positions.

shoutingthomas said...

garage,

You're such a sanctimonious fuck.

But that's what the left is now.

Just for the record, the strategy of manufacturing martyrs is a universal political scam.

Everybody does it.

If real martyrs aren't available, fake ones are manufactured.

Suspect all martyrs of being fakes, no matter which side is parading out its martyrs.

Big Mike said...

And Moveon.org may have been motivated in part by these poll results.

traditionalguy said...

Alpha...You really are that dumb. Unless this blog fight is part of the Slander-o-rama performance team's planned publicity. Then there is a Journolist version of a conspiracy here. Not that there is anything wrong with tricks being played in love and war.

Big Mike said...

@Beth, Fen's got a point.

shoutingthomas said...

And, this might be a good moment to remember that Obama's DOJ refused to prosecute Black Panthers who were shown on video carrying billy clubs at a polling place in Philadelphia.

Fen said...

Garage: Nice crew you hitched your wagon to Althouse.

Garage too. See, for them, its not about the violence, its about browbeating the opposition.

In a week, the perps in the video will be identified. A week later, we will discover they are all MoveOn plants.

kentuckyliz said...

How is this good news for Democrats?

A lunatic wearing a wig and bearing a sign saying Republicorp rushes a candidate for the US Senate, and some citizens stopped her before she could attack the candidate.

I know people who were there and saw it. You can't read a person's intentions or research their backstory in the moment when they seem to be surging forward for an apparent attack.

I think this is giving me an idea for a Halloween costume. Rand Paul T shirt, Republicorp sign, wig, sneaker glued on my back.

Don't add fuel to the fire by saying her head was curb-stomped when that is obviously not the case.

As earnestly as she was restrained, the restrainers were immediately restrained too.

I hate this day in American politics where whackos cause Senate candidates to require as much police protection as the President. Sigh.

Quaestor said...

Lauren Valle needs to put her leftie ass on the line. Come foward, babe. Swear out a complaint. Put your ass in jeopardy (no need to be fearful if you're being truthful) or I'm going to assume it's all bullshit.

DADvocate said...

Other examples of violence from the freaked out and paranoid right wing:

Are you trying to justify the fascist approach of the left.

Oh, you left at least one out:
Bill Ayers, future friend and mentor of Barack Obama, "participated in the bombings of New York City Police Department headquarters in 1970, the United States Capitol building in 1971, and the Pentagon in 1972'.

And another, the Beatles inspire Charles Manson to form and lead murderous sect.

How many fallacies did you commit?

False cause
Sweeping Generalization
Begging the question
Straw man
Argument from repition
Cherry picking
Anecdotal evidence

This is not a complete list.

Where is the evidence that anyone involved in this incident is associated with the Tea Party?

themightypuck said...

The thing no one seems to mention is that it isn't really that bad. This might suggest shenanigans although the stomp looked real to me. In any case, to suggest this proves some kind of culture of violence on the right is ridiculous.

Martin L. Shoemaker said...

former law student said...

The Unabomber thought technology was taking away our freedom. Who longs for freedom and the good old days? Sounds like a right-winger to me.

Wow... Environmental extremists are right-wingers in your world... How delusional can you get?

As for the video... I don't have the bandwidth to watch it right now, so I can't judge whether it looks faked or not. But in my view, claims of fraud have to meet pretty high standards of proof.

Fen said...

Beth, Alpha,

Can you at least agree that, based on a pattern of similar instances staged by Democrats, we have good reason to be skeptical?

Godot said...

Meanwhile, Kenneth Gladney is mending nicely from his very real beating at the hands of SEIU thugs.
___

Fen said...

Wow... Environmental extremists are right-wingers in your world... How delusional can [FLS] get?

FLS thinks Left field is out in the parking lot. And that the lightpole near him is 2nd base.

But I gotta award Alpha the Libtard - for minimizing the SEIU assault on Gladney while simultaneously exaggerating the "stomping" of Valle.

What a piece of work.

Hagar said...

I am not familiar with camcorders, but the scene appears to be quite well lit and a space cleared for the camera man.

The link has another link below it that gives a little more video, including part of an interview with the woman shortly afterwards. She is out of breath and excited, but apparently unhurt.

Is there any reason why this cannot be a combination of a moveon.org dirty trick and the crowd immediately reacting to what might have been an assaination attempt by a disguised lunatic? (OK, a little over the top, and these people appear too young to remember RFK and George Wallace, Judith Fromme, but ?)

And her head was not stomped on, the guy just pushes her shoulder down with his foot as in "stay down until we figure this out!"

PatCA said...

The beating was wrong, wrong, wrong. And I am sure that the MSM will tell us this ad nauseum for the next week.

mariner said...

garage mahal,
The beauty of this post is that it will be on the internet forever.

So will your comments, in all their deranged glory.

El Presidente said...

My grandmother can stomp harder than those guys. If those "thugs" are the best the right wing can do they have no right to rule.

El Presidente said...

And the camera work. . . you never focus on the unknown event before it begins. Sloppy work makes me so angry.

master cylinder said...

was there a "B" on her face?
yeah, only lefties fake shit.

lucid said...

An obvious and desperate alinsky by movedown.org

Althouse is a very shrewd woman.

Alphablab, slamandyr, etc., are clearly and completely morally bankrupt and dishonest.

AlphaLiberal said...

More photos of the cowardly, women-beating Tea Party thugs:

http://www.bluebluegrass.com/2010/10/25/republican-rand-pauls-brownshirts-assault-and-stomp-the-head-of-a-moveon-org-woman-before-the-ket-debate/


Rand Paul refuses to denounce the violence against this woman. Wishes it didn't happen...

Scott M said...

What are you going to do about all this right-wing violence, Alpha? Sit inside and blog about it or go do something about it? Honestly, how much do you really care? What's your plan of action?

AlphaLiberal said...

Rand Paul speaking to right wing militia groups.

Rand Paul is a violence-coddling right wing extremist. He will not condemn the violence because he will not criticize his own supporters.

former law student said...

Posted on Wed, Jul. 28, 2010

Obama's DOJ refused to prosecute Black Panthers who were shown on video carrying billy clubs at a polling place in Philadelphia.

Two News Black Panthers, one with a billy club, the other, without, a certified Democratic poll worker, per the Washington Post last week. In front of a polling place in a black neighborhood in Philadelphia.

From the Inquirer this summer:

Scouring the city for Black Panther victims
Meet the neighbors of America's most famous crank.

By Daniel Denvir
The fourth precinct of the city's 14th ward encompasses about eight square blocks north of Chinatown, made up of small, suburban-style houses, a few abandoned lots, and the Guild House West, a retirement home. The home is where people of the fourth precinct vote and, on Nov. 4, 2008, where two members of the New Black Panther Party briefly stood, one armed with a nightstick.

The group is as obscure as it is bigoted. But as Americans elected our first black president, the right-wing media began a relentless campaign to portray Barack Obama's victory as auguring the rise of black racism. The story eventually found its way into the mainstream press.

The idea is that whites are being oppressed, much as Southern blacks were warned away from polling places by Klansmen and violent cops in the pre-civil rights era. But this Philadelphia neighborhood is almost entirely black, and no white voters - or, for that matter, any voters - complained of intimidation. On the grounds that voter intimidation requires at least one intimidated voter, I walked the fourth precinct in search of a victim.

Angel Rivera, 49, and a friend were enjoying a cold beer on a shaded bench around the corner from the Guild House. Rivera had just finished 10 years behind bars and was exploring his old stomping grounds.

"The neighborhood's more relaxed - no more gangbanging," he said, recalling the bleak public housing that once stood nearby. Over the past 15 years, it was remade into a federally subsidized community dubbed West Poplar Nehemiah: single-family, owner-occupied homes for working-class Philadelphians. The nearby Cambridge Plaza and Richard Allen Homes - where Bill Cosby grew up and set Fat Albert - underwent similar transformations.

Neither Rivera nor the guys from the homeless shelter at Broad and Ridge had heard of any black-power thugs striking fear in the neighborhood. Rather, they kept bringing up teen pregnancy and bad schools. So I moved on, still searching for black racism and an intimidated voter.




Read more: http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/20100728_Scouring_the_city_for_Black_Panther_victims.html

garage mahal said...

And her head was not stomped on, the guy just pushes her shoulder down with his foot as in "stay down until we figure this out!"

For the Palin-military types this is perfectly reasonable. Like the reporter being cuffed by Joe Miller's goons for asking a question. We just need to figure this out! You guys have complete fucking lost it.

Original Mike said...

Finally some good news for Democrats

And here I was guessing the unemployment rate had gone down.

Ann Althouse said...

Remember the spitting incident back when health insurance reform was being passed. Talk about a lie getting halfway around the world before the truth can put on its sneakers.

That's why I'm vigilant.

Zachary Paul Sire said...

You want answers? You want the truth? You can't handle the truth, Althouse.

The truth is, those old, white men blended back into the crowd with all the other old, white men (and a few old, white women), and can't be identified because a)they all the look the same, and b)no one in that crowd is going to squeal on their own kind.

If the woman didn't press charges or was reluctant to talk to police, it's probably because she knows she was there up to her own no good, and doesn't want the attention or the hassle of dealing with extra exposure. She was wearing a wig for a reason.

MoveOn is dumb, but they're not stupid. You think they'd really risk being caught orchestrating something that, if discovered, would make them look so violently and blatantly deceptive?

You took a big risk putting your theory out on the internet forever, and now you're going to look dumb/cruel when you're not proven right. All guts, no glory! Sorry.

Scott M said...

For the Palin-military types this is perfectly reasonable. Like the reporter being cuffed by Joe Miller's goons for asking a question. We just need to figure this out! You guys have complete fucking lost it.

Goodness. Imagine if the administration raises the retirement age by two years.

k*thy said...

They should draw a clear line between themselves and this bad actors.

Unless, of course, they themselves are enabling cowards.

Obviously, there are a lot of people there. The men should be identified to the police.

I suspect they will be.

Hagar said...

Seen some more clips, including AL's above.
There is no evidence of anyone "beating" on this woman or "stomping on her head."
They are grabbing her and pushing her down, which is what one presumably should do with a suspect attempting to rush a celebrity or politician at an event, and the man with the sneakers is just pushing on her shoulder or back as she attempts to rise up.

The commentary in the media is way over the top.

AlphaLiberal said...

More photos of right wing militias wearing Rand Paul stickers at rally where Rand Paul spoke.

Because nothing says "peaceful assembly" like automatic weapons. Did they think that the black helicopters were coming to shut down their rally? What the..?

Violent freaks.

shoutingthomas said...

Jesus, Alpha, you've lost your fucking mind.

The adrenalin is running and you're fabricating and going wild.

Slow down. Stop jerking off.

That's what you're doing.

You feel right now like you've discovered the mother lode of answers to all questions.

Shut up for a while. Sit down. Pull your pants up.

Think about nothing for a while. Say the Lord's Prayer.

Quit working yourself up into a lather.

This is not going to change the course of the election. No amount of hyperventilating on your part will.

Zachary Paul Sire said...

Did she file a police report?

Why yes, she did.

http://wtvq.com/news/5524-last-debate

Fail.

shoutingthomas said...

And, really, Alpha...

Stop being a fucking asshole.

Writing posts on a weblog is not an act of violence.

Being a fucking asshole is not in good taste.

AlphaLiberal said...

Bullshit, Hagar. She was thrown to the concrete curb, shoved into and then another Tea Party guy stomped her head into the curb. There are now reports she suffered a concussion.

You guys have one of your Drama Queens fall down in a scuffle and you get the vapors and bloody murder.

Here is actual, real violence, reported by Fox News, no less, and you guys make excuses and try to trivialize it.

The right wing doesn't give a damn about fairness, about civility, about basic decency. They are fine with beating people who up who disagree with them, with threats and intimidation.

And, this is a a bunch of men beating up on a woman! Still you defend it!

shoutingthomas said...

From the article referenced by Sire, this statement from the Paul campaign:

"We understand that there was an altercation outside of the debate between supporters of both sides and that is incredibly unfortunate. Violence of any kind has no place in our civil discourse and we urge supporters on all sides to be civil to one another as tensions rise heading toward this very important election. We are relieved to hear that the woman in question was not injured."

Where is the endorsement of violence in this statement?

Goju said...

Ann, crowd reaction is typical. Most people's first reaction to violence is to be stunned. Then they look for someone to do something (police, security, etc.) Note the voice calling for the police. Then they look at each other looking to see someone else step up.

The average person is not used to high levels of violence. It takes either conditioning for training to be able to make an immediate effetive response. The time lapse is usually enough to allow the perp to walk away.

Tip to potential perps: DO NOT RUN AWAY - WALK. Very important.

Which is why I have the same doubts as Ann. It smells faked. The perps did not act like typical goons. The timing seems off on the actual assault. And the fact that all the perps were so conviently labled really stinks.

I am not convinced it is faked. I am also not conviced it is real. Put the video up so the faces of the perps can be IDed. Someone has to know them. Male it national in case its out-of-town talent.

Then prosecute them for appropriate crimes.

Simple enough.

shoutingthomas said...

Alpha, I'm an old man.

Let me tell you again.

Shut the fuck up for a while.

Smoke a cigarette if that's what you do to calm down.

Go beat off, if that's what it takes for you to calm down.

You are hysterical.

Say the Lord's Prayer or Om!

Anything, but shut up with the fucking hysteria.

campy said...

Where is the endorsement of violence in this statement?

It's there if you decode it properly.

AlphaLiberal said...

Shoutingthomas:

Writing posts on a weblog is not an act of violence.

Uh, I didn't say it was.

So, I post real facts about Rand Paul's alliances with right wing militias, with evidence, video, tape of him addressing his involvement at the extremist rally.

Can you respond with reason? No, not in the slightest. You spew bile and insults without single substantive statement.

That's because you are defending the indefensible and all you have is simple-minded insults. You can make no rebuttal.

Do you also make excuses for wife beaters, Shoutingthomas?

shoutingthomas said...

Let me say that one more time before you jerk off again in hysteria, Alpha.

Shut up for a while.

You are an hysteric.

Say your prayers. Sit in mediation.

Do whatever it is you need to do to calm your hysteria.

Hagar said...

and unhinged garage,

The reporter in Anchorage got arrested for getting physical with a security guard after Miller was gone.

shoutingthomas said...

Do you also make excuses for wife beaters, Shoutingthomas?

You are in absolute, hyperventilating, frothing at the mouth, Alpha.

Shut the fuck up for a while and calm down.

All the world's problems are not going to be solved by throwing an hysterical fit at this moment.

Pat down your forehead with a wet, cold washcloth.

Shut your fucking mouth for a while.

It is a delusion on your part that your hysteria is going to cause something to happen.

AlphaLiberal said...

ScottM, the occasionally reasonable one:

What are you going to do about all this right-wing violence, Alpha? Sit inside and blog about it or go do something about it? Honestly, how much do you really care? What's your plan of action?

Doors and phones. Get out the vote.

shoutingthomas said...

Alpha,

How often do you experience these fits of hysteria?

Apparently, daily.

Do you have any idea how many people were dispatched from this world with a bullet to the back of the head in the 20th century?

Now, I'm not arguing the politics.

Get some perspective.

You are an absolute, frothing hysteric.

Now, I've told you a few times to shut up. You've got an emotional problem that won't allow you stop hyperventilating.

Take a step back. Go into a quiet, dark room.

Shut up for a while.

Scott M said...

Doors and phones. Get out the vote.

And how, praytell, does that stop an escalation of violence that you seem to be wetting your knickers over? All you're doing is standard electioneering in the above statement. It does nothing to address a rising tide of right-wing violence.

If your goal is to curb all of this right-wing violence as the street fill with blood, doors, phones, and getting the vote out won't stop it.

What is your plan of action to stop the violence?

former law student said...

Environmental extremists are right-wingers in your world?

I see the problem. You guys know dick about the Unabomber's beliefs. He excoriated the leftists. From the Manifesto:

THE PSYCHOLOGY OF MODERN LEFTISM

6. Almost everyone will agree that we live in a deeply troubled society. One of the most widespread manifestations of the craziness of our world is leftism, so a discussion of the psychology of leftism can serve as an introduction to the discussion of the problems of modern society in general.
...
When we speak of leftists in this article we have in mind mainly socialists, collectivists, "politically correct" types, feminists, gay and disability activists, animal rights activists and the like.
...

FEELINGS OF INFERIORITY

13. Many leftists have an intense identification with the problems of groups that have an image of being weak (women), defeated (American Indians), repellent homosexuals), or otherwise inferior. The leftists themselves feel that these groups are inferior. They would never admit it to themselves that they have such feelings, but it is precisely because they do see these groups as inferior that they identify with their problems. (We do not suggest that women, Indians, etc., ARE inferior; we are only making a point about leftist psychology).

14. Feminists are desperately anxious to prove that women are as strong as capable as men. Clearly they are nagged by a fear that women may NOT be as strong and as capable as men.

15. Leftists tend to hate anything that has an image of being strong, good and successful. They hate America, they hate Western civilization, they hate white males, they hate rationality. The
reasons that leftists give for hating the West, etc. clearly do not correspond with their real motives. They SAY they hate the West because it is warlike, imperialistic, sexist, ethnocentric and so forth, but where these same faults appear in socialist countries or in primitive cultures, the leftist finds excuses for them, or at best he GRUDGINGLY admits that they exist; whereas he ENTHUSIASTICALLY points out (and often greatly exaggerates) these faults where they appear in Western civilization. Thus it is clear that these faults are not the leftist's real motive for hating America and the West. He hates America and the West because they are strong and successful.

16. Words like "self-confidence," "self-reliance," "initiative", "enterprise," "optimism," etc. play little role in the liberal and leftist vocabulary. The leftist is anti-individualistic, pro-collectivist. He wants society to solve everyone's needs for them, take care of them. He is not the sort of person who has an inner sense of confidence in his own ability to solve his own problems and satisfy his own needs. The leftist is antagonistic to the concept of competition because, deep inside, he feels like a loser.

shoutingthomas said...

Ah, well.

To quote my hero, Henry Miller:

"Against stupidity, we are helpless."

Scott M said...

FLS

Well rebutted. You are a copy-paster of truly kingly proportions. How often to original thoughts come to mind? Please share them as often as they do. It would be selfish to horde an intellect such as yours.

AlphaLiberal said...

Shoutingthomas, you sound like the cowards who threw a woman to the curb and stomped her head.

FoxNews was pushing the Reverse B mutilation hoax back in the day. So, we know this is how the right wing operates and they probably thinks everyone lies as much as they do.

shoutingthomas said...

fls,

You are also an hysteric.

I see the problem. You guys know dick about the Unabomber's beliefs. He excoriated the leftists.

Read Solzhenitzn's Gulag Archipeligo or The Cancer Ward.

Excoriating the leftists is most often done by... other leftists! The fact that leftists engage in infighting doesn't mean that their enemies are rightists.

This is an absurd contention.

The Cancer Ward is full of characters who were dispatched to the Gulag by the KBG, and who spend their days writing to Uncle Joe denouncing other Zeks as the "real counter-revolutionaries."

In their case, these fools always write, good old Uncle Joe just made a mistake.

The insane terrorist who hates other leftists is not, by default, a servant of the right.

AlphaLiberal said...

ScottM:

Well rebutted. You are a copy-paster of truly kingly proportion

Aha. so when he provides the evidence to the lie about the Unabomber then you ignore said evidence and.... INSULT HIM.

Why how civil of you!

Grow up guys. You're not in the sandbox anymore.

shoutingthomas said...

Shoutingthomas, you sound like the cowards who threw a woman to the curb and stomped her head.

Every time I suggest that you stop beating off and hyping up your hysteria, you only increase the volume, Alpha.

This hysteria is important to you for some reason.

As I said: "Against stupidity, we are helpless."

Somewhere within this rabid hysteria lies the belief that you've got the answer to all things.

HDHouse said...

anne wallowed: ".. her head was on the curb and her neck was stomped, but she will go off and take care of herself? I'm skeptical!"

isn't taking care of herself just the type of self reliance the right wing bootjacks want from all of us?

you present the counterclaim as the logical explanation rather than headlines "tea party brown shirt types stomp woman".

your explanation is just stupid.

garage mahal said...

The Unabomber was a plant.

damikesc said...

Funny, ZPS' link disproved the whole "Paul hasn't condemned violence" nonsense. The woman pushed by people and falls when her wig is removed.

Wah.

shoutingthomas said...

So, Alpha, how much higher can you turn up the volume on your hysteria?

The top of your skull is already about to blow off.

I'm afraid you'll have a heart attack or burst your spleen.

Scott M said...

AL

What part of "well-rebutted" means "ignore" to you, dipshit?

FLS and I have traded enough exchanges, in reasonable debate I might add, that it's well-meaning snark at worst and will be viewed as such. FLS knows I've defended him(her?) on a couple of occasions so, in this case, it's just a light prod, not an insult.

What's your excuse?

AlphaLiberal said...

ScottM:

What is your plan of action to stop the violence?

This is bizarre. Why is it my job and not that of, say, Rand Paul?

I hope they catch the perp's and throw the book at them.

What are you doing, besides making excuses for the violent, making reasoned debate and conversation impossible, hawking lies and spreading bullshit?

Hagar said...

and Alpha,

If there had been any intent to injure this woman, she would have been injured. As it is, it is remarkable that she did not at least get some scratches. This was a quite risky caper, so she gets marks for guts, if not brains.

Scott M said...

The Unabomber was a plant.

See, now, Garage...that's funny. I knew I was right about that beer.

former law student said...

st: I get it. I love Big Brother now. I can see that
Ayn Rand was a leftist.
Rush Limbaugh is a leftist.
Michael Savage is a leftist.
Sean Hannity is a leftist.

Because they all sound just like the leftist Unabomber.

edutcher said...

Zachary Paul Sire said...

You want answers? You want the truth? You can't handle the truth, Althouse.

The truth is, those old, white men blended back into the crowd with all the other old, white men (and a few old, white women), and can't be identified because a)they all the look the same, and b)no one in that crowd is going to squeal on their own kind.

If the woman didn't press charges or was reluctant to talk to police, it's probably because she knows she was there up to her own no good, and doesn't want the attention or the hassle of dealing with extra exposure. She was wearing a wig for a reason.


"One of their own"??? Sire wants everyone to buy his nonsense that all the Paul supporters there have no problem with a woman being beaten because all those racist teabaggers hate women (even though the Tea Party movement is powered mostly by women).

And, if this woman was activist enough that she wanted to sandbag Paul, one presumes she wanted the 15 minutes she'd get with him holding her sign. Saying she "doesn't want the attention or the hassle of dealing with extra exposure." is absolute nonsense.

PS Just because the "truth" line worked for Jack, you know Jack.

AlphaLiberal said...

Bullshit, Hagar. She was thrown to the concrete curb, shoved into and then another Tea Party guy stomped her head into the curb. There are now reports she suffered a concussion.

You guys have one of your Drama Queens fall down in a scuffle and you get the vapors and bloody murder.


Stomped her head into the curb??? Where's the bloody pulp, etc.?

Besides, if one is going to hew to an hypocritical double standard ("one of your Drama Queens fall down in a scuffle"), they're better off getting the links from someplace other than the thugs who committed the felony.

The SEIU website??? Really!!!!

Chase said...

The (obviously Democrat) men should be arrested and prosecuted. Come on! I want them caught and identified! BEFORE THE ELECTION.

Democrats are so free from the constraints of morality that this is obviously Democrat performed.

From sponsoring third party opponents throughout the United States in this year's Congressional elections to our boy President stooping to unsubstantiated shit-flinging about foreign donations while having freely taken them himself to fraudulent voter registrations by the thousands in Houston alone this year, being a Democrat means you have no problems stooping to new lower levels of unethical and immoral behavior.

Famous Original Mike said...

Completely staged. Count on it.

k said...

Paul the octopus is dead – but conspiracy theories are thriving

AlphaLiberal said...

Well, we have plenty of proof all over this page of what I have said for a long time: The American right wing has a strong propensity for violence, they will not admit to, or condemn, violence from within their own ranks.

They will make any excuses to serve their ends.

Hagar said...

Garage Mahal said,
"The Unabomber was a plant."

Is Garage what you call a "Moby?"

and Alpha too, perhaps?

Scott M said...

This is bizarre. Why is it my job and not that of, say, Rand Paul?

So...right-wing radicals are marauding in our streets, injuring and maiming people, blowing them up...and the best you can do is post lists on a blog? Obviously you're not all that worked up about it if you're still in your seat.

I make excuses for no one in this instance. If they committed violence, they deserve the full extent of the law. The chick in question is an expert on felonies, it appears.

shoutingthomas said...

fls,

You're one of those clowns who doesn't even bother to argue in good faith.

You've taken yet another step into the abyss.


Ayn Rand was a leftist.

Rush Limbaugh is a leftist.
Michael Savage is a leftist.
Sean Hannity is a leftist.


None of these argued against modernity, and for the destruction of the technology. None of these are Utopians.

Let me make it simpler for you.

All Utopians are leftists. The Unabomber was a Utopian. The Unabomber was a leftist.

It's really pretty simple.

But more importantly, you've wandered into this syndrome, as described today by Steve Sailer:

The Smartest Guy in the Room Syndrome: the presumption that the more moving parts and unlikely assumptions in your theory, the smarter you must be to hold it all together in your head, so, therefore, you win.

Michael said...

Alpha: That was clearly a liberal "head stomp." A right wing head stomp with her skull there on the curb and you would have heard a pumpkin exploding. Pussy. Liberal. Head. Stomp. HAHAHA.

She had a big grin on her face. Best theater ever.

shoutingthomas said...

Well, we have plenty of proof all over this page of what I have said for a long time: The American right wing has a strong propensity for violence, they will not admit to, or condemn, violence from within their own ranks.

They will make any excuses to serve their ends.

Well, yeah. "The American right wing has a strong propensity for violence," but it's always the left wing that actually commits the violence.

Your hyperventilating hysteria has reached fever pitch, Alpha.

I don't see how you can go on this way much longer without pissing your pants.

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