September 2, 2010

"In a rather curious and confused way, some white people are starting almost to think like a minority, even like a persecuted one."

"... Saturday's rally was quite largely confined to expressions of pathos and insecurity, voiced in a sickly and pious tone. The emotions that underlay it, however, may not be uttered that way indefinitely."

167 comments:

MadisonMan said...

Maybe I'm an oddity, but I don't think of myself as a White American.

I'm an American.

Maybe that's because I live in Wisconsin.

Lincolntf said...

Projection.

Pogo said...

In which the champions of balkanization decry balkanization ...by the wrong sort.

GMay said...

I never really understood all the slobbering over Christopher Hitchens on this blog, and an article like this only adds to that mystery.

Expat(ish) said...

@Pogo: You have to call it "Genderization" as your current term is mascho-centeric.

You are welcome.

-XC

Joe said...

@Pogo,

You're walking in a desert, and you come upon a tortoise. The tortoise is on its back. It's baking in the sun. It can't flip over on its own. What do you do, Pogo?

MrBuddwing said...

Maybe I'm an oddity, but I don't think of myself as a White American.

I'm an American.


A privilege of majority, is it not?

Word verification: derier

Sofa King said...

Maybe I'm an oddity, but I don't think of myself as a White American.

I'm an American.

That's just you, using your white privilege. Because you are white. In fact, denying that your very whiteness allows you the privilege to *not* think about race, makes you a racist.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)
A privilege of majority, is it not?

Really is it? Isn’t it a privilege being an American?

Please justify the statement you made, provide citations if possible, be thorough and show all your work. Otherwise it seems a non sequitur.

miller said...

Oh good grief.

Do leftists even try any more to figure out what their so-called enemies think and feel?

I know that I make an effort to get inside my opponent's head because to understand them helps me to better understand my own opposition.

This is just lazy thinking, and the editors of Slate (if they have them) apparently didn't even attempt to do a cursory pass at this.

Just because a name writes something doesn't make it readable or useful.

Hitchens gets a pass many times more than he deserves for his lazy thinking.

lemondog said...

I'm an American.

And an unhyphenated one!

Isn't this kinda, sorta a replay of the '80's when Japan looked to replace US economic dominance with its better more efficient way of doing everything, making worried Americans feel like loser chumps?

An apologetic leadership that denigrates its citizens and their country is not a formula for success.

Kirk Parker said...

GMay and miller,

I think part of the attraction of Hitchens is that he's not afraid to swing for the fences... when he connects it's wonderful (e.g. the incident in Beirut) but when he strikes out, hoo boy does he ever swing and miss! (Think of his despicable Mother Teresa rant if you want another example.)

I think Paglia has much the same M.O.

garage mahal said...

Interesting video at the link.

+1 on the colonial costume and Ben Franklin glasses

shoutingthomas said...

The assertion of economic and political self-interest by middle class whites has been branded as racism by the left.

Every group, other than middle class whites, is encouraged to prosecute its economic and political self-interest with a vengeance.

When middle class whites do precisely what the left encourages in its pampered, favored classes (women, gays and blacks), this is considered a threat.

A tired, vicious and stupid theme.

And, fuck you all, I'm white, male and middle class. I have the right to voice and pursue my economic and political self-interest.

Call me whatever kind of bigot you want. I don't give a fuck.

miller said...

Yeah, he's rather like Sullivan on Palin when it comes to his fixation on Mother Teresa.

I don't think she was some incredibly shiny saint. She seemed to be someone who was taken by a sense of compassion and love and service, and lived her life that way. She did honorable and commendable things, but she was also flawed.

But to Hitchens that Albanian was the living example of Don Corleone.

(BTW changed my pix. Feeling more sassy.)

Scott M said...

I've never felt "persecuted" because I'm white, even when growing up as one of the only white kids in my neighborhood in south Chicago. However, I was always keenly aware of racial double-standards.

Frankly, I feel far more persecuted as an adult man. Having been through a divorce, I know first-hand that the anecdotes about the family court system being stacked against men is unfortunately true. Further, the endless parade of anti-male, anti-dad advertising (Progressive Insurance is a serial offender...imagine that) raises my ire every time I see it. My ire is tired, but persecuted nonetheless.

David said...

Before the US existed, Ben Franklin was complaining about all the German immigrants, who can't speak the language, follow some funny religion, would never assimilate and would ultimately drive out the whites (German's being, in Franklin's opinion, off-white or tawny).

Basically, whiteness doesn't exist and people who take pride in being white are pathetic losers. At best, it's a way of taking credit for things that neither you nor your ancestors had anything to do with.

And if you're about to complain that it's not fair that you don't get to have white pride when blacks get black pride and Asians get yellow pride, well, life ain't fair or symmetrical.

AJ Lynch said...

Maybe the desire that the govt leaves us alone is just that.

Does it have to be assigned a color or a race?

Scott M said...

I think Paglia has much the same M.O.

That's true, but the most fair-minded and honest piece on abortion I've ever read from the left came from Paglia. I still recommend it to this day when the subject comes up in conversation.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

What does it take to believe that Christianity is an endangered religion in America or that the name of Jesus is insufficiently spoken or appreciated? Who wakes up believing that there is no appreciation for our veterans and our armed forces and that without a noisy speech from Sarah Palin, their sacrifice would be scorned? It's not unfair to say that such grievances are purely and simply imaginary

I don't know what rock or bottle of scotch Hitchens has been hiding in for the last 40 years but the evidence is NOT imaginary.

Christ in a bottle of piss. Mary covered in shit.

Spitting on soldiers and calling them war criminals.

Banning the Ten Commandments.

Demonizing Christian students while giving special treatment to other sects.

The media constantly beating the drum that all whites are racists. That we should pay reparations for things that our own ancestors had nothing to do with.

Schools changing history and distorting history to make 'whites' the demonspawn of the world.

The underlying theme that Hitchens is getting at is that the Tea Party and the people at Beck's rally are closet racists.

I'm white, male and middle class. I have the right to voice and pursue my economic and political self-interest.

AMEN brother.

And Beck should never have apologized or taken it back.

Obama is a racist.

Hoosier Daddy said...

You know I don't recall any observations of the predominately white anti-war rallies or pro-gay marriage rallies or pro-abortion rallies. Take a look at some photos of those and they are remarkably Caucasion in pigmentation.

But a bunch of conservatives get together and suddenly it becomes racial.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)
And if you're about to complain that it's not fair that you don't get to have white pride when blacks get black pride and Asians get yellow pride, well, life ain't fair or symmetrical.


So is this the message you would have delivered to say, OH Martin Luther King….”Sorry Marty, you can’t eat at the counter with me, but you know life ain’t symmetrical.” Not he most well-thought out idea I’ve read today.

AJ Lynch said...

Speaking of Paglia, where has she been? Althouse has not linked to her in a while.

Scott M said...

well, life ain't fair or symmetrical.

Ah...so what you're saying is, I shouldn't have to pony up for someone's else's really bad decision to buy a house with an ARM or their decision to have shitty health insurance while eating a gross of twinkies a day?

I think we can agree on that.

MayBee said...

A privilege of majority, is it not?

A gift of freedom allowed to white males by those who want to keep everyone else in special interest groups.

It is incredibly demeaning to huge swaths of our population that they are expected to think/vote a certain way because of the color of their skin, gender, sexual identity, or religion.
I don't know why that's not decried as the bigotry it is.

GMay said...

Hey garage,

Man you're right about that one.

I like rallies that have more flavorful costumes.

Do you have any videos from those?

Fen said...

Told ya. The Left has to forment racial strife to stay in power.

In fact, denying that your very whiteness allows you the privilege to *not* think about race, makes you a racist.

Heh. Good parody.

Right?

Lem said...

And these insinuations are perfectly emblematic of the two main fears of the old majority: that it will be submerged by an influx from beyond the borders and that it will be challenged in its traditional ways and faiths by an alien and largely Third World religion..

The nature of a true "minority" is weakness.. In don't see it as un-natural or beyond the scope of human understanding, the idea that people may fear such designation.

Ann Althouse said...

"I never really understood all the slobbering over Christopher Hitchens on this blog, and an article like this only adds to that mystery."

Don't worry. He's dying.

Pogo said...

"You're walking in a desert, and you come upon a tortoise."

What desert?
How come I'd be there?

garage mahal said...

Gmay
I'd love to comment, but remember we're all under strict orders to NOT go back farther than two years when making an argument - like "Bush did it too!". So, got anything in past two years?

Joe said...

@Pogo
Maybe you're fed up, maybe you want to be by yourself, who knows?

Maguro said...

Interesting that Hitchens, who is supposedly some kind of fearless intellectual giant, declines to comment on whether the impending demographic change he describes is actually good for America or not.

If it's not good, aren't people right to oppose it?

traditionalguy said...

Ask the Arizonans who live south of Phoenix if they are being sacrificed to Obama's megalomania of sharing this country's resources and wealth with the world's poor people. And what was that hoax of warming to be stopped by paying an oppressive energy tax to the world's poor people? And what is the Gaia Goddess the enviros want to be worshiped in a new religion all over the world in place of Christianity? It is actively happening while we watch...that is hard evidence and not imagination. If Sarah Palin's facebook in Alaska is the only opposition leader available, then we need to support her leadership big time.

Lincolntf said...

100% agree, DBQ.
The fact that you even have to spell it out for purportedly "bright" people like Hitchens shows that his motives are tainted. He's not ignorant of reality, he's ignoring reality.

Oh, and Pogo, the correct answer is "make turtle soup".

Sofa King said...

Fen -

Of course it is a parody, because Madison Man is a liberal white man. Only for conservative white men is denial of racism evidence of racism.

Hoosier Daddy said...

What desert?
How come I'd be there?


Maybe you're fed up. Maybe you want to be by yourself. Who knows? You look down and see a tortoise, Pogo.

Montagne Montaigne said...

Spitting on soldiers and calling them war criminals.

Dust Bunny Queen. When did this ever happen, except in your fantasies?

IT NEVER HAPPENED. IT'S A CALUMNY.

I'm really tired of this particular lie. Never happened, certainly not in the current era. It's just self-justifying propaganda. Shut up, liar.

Lem said...

I'd love to comment, but remember we're all under strict orders to NOT go back farther than two years when making an argument..

I was going to go back to Solomon and the parting of the baby.. 50/50

That rule is not fair garage.

Sofa King said...

If it's not good, aren't people right to oppose it?

No, they're not. Because they have it coming. "God DAMN America!"

Hoosier Daddy said...

Hey garage,

Man you're right about that one.

I like rallies that have more flavorful costumes.


Those were obviously all right wing plants to discredit the left.

Kirby Olson said...

I think it's about ideology, not race. Many keep trying to make it about race, but it isn't.

It's about common American values. Race, gender and class are Marxist values, and Marxists keep trying to draw us back to those canards.

Beck is trying to draw us back further into history, back to the Founding Fathers. Marxists don't want us to go there, so they keep trying to derail any such thinking, and make it about their lousy trium(ph)virate of race, gender, and class.

It's about the principles of the Constitution, and that are in the Bill of Rights.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Dust Bunny Queen. When did this ever happen, except in your fantasies?

Well I don't think he spit on them but Murtha pretty much called them war criminals.

Scott M said...

@GM

So, got anything in past two years?

Yeah. I'd like to know how Congress is going to fund the $30 billion small bank bail out you were touting yesterday. I remember being called a boot-licking Republican (although I'm neither a Republican nor licker of boots), but that was as close to an answer as you got.

shoutingthomas said...

Just to show you how crazy this all is:

Every time the left wants to counter the assertion of self-interest by middle class whites, who does it trot out to scream "bigot"?

Non other than that execrable asshole Rev. Al Sharpton, pimp of the Tawana Brawley hoax.

In some ways, this says it all.

ironrailsironweights said...

Maybe I'm an oddity, but I don't think of myself as a White American.
I'm an American.
Maybe that's because I live in Wisconsin.


That's the whole point, it's all a matter of context. If you were in Baltimore or El Paso you'd be highly conscious of your racial identity.

Peter

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Fuck off Montagne.

Seriously.

TMink said...

Hitch is very suspicious of Christians and his suspicions increase as he nears death knowing that thousands of us are praying for his salvation.

It does not fit the narrative.

So he lashes out a little. I believe he will die a believer.

But I was there at the rally, and nobody said anything about white people. White people are weird, we are the only group that does not worry about our group. We are the least racist people on the planet.

Trey

Scott M said...

I'm really tired of this particular lie. Never happened, certainly not in the current era. It's just self-justifying propaganda. Shut up, liar.

You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. It happened to my father, both when he got back and two weeks after he'd been in-country. That's just the spitting. Being called baby-killer on and off for a couple of years certainly made him feel all fuzzy.

Pogo said...

Tortoise, what's that?

Lem said...

If it's not good, aren't people right to oppose it?

If a Judge (a wise one maybe ;) now has the power to undo the will of the people expressed via the ballot box.. who knows what an elected despot a la Chavez could do?

Montagne Montaigne said...

Scott M. Did it happen any time in the past 20 years? Any time since 1975? Is there any evidence whatsoever that it happened?

Also, I heard the huns roasted babies on bayonets.

GMay said...

g-m protested: "I'd love to comment, but remember we're all under strict orders to NOT go back farther than two years when making an argument - like "Bush did it too!". So, got anything in past two years?"

I didn't give those orders. Go back as far as you'd like. Just don't piss and moan when your comparison is shown to be invalid.


But you know, I'm gonna have a hard time finding stuff like that since Dems have been in power for four years. The anti-war left seems to view Democrats differently when they're in charge of the wars.

I'll let you know what I find.

Mary Beth said...

TL;DR. This is the gist of what I got - There are rules covering how someone can be inspired by MLK and Beck broke them by being one of the "wrong kind".

Does that sum it up or am I missing something?

Richard Dolan said...

The column puts on full display Hitchens' contempt for religious feeling and his class-based Ox-bridge contempt for middling folks generally (he sees them all as Babbits).

As for his sneering at religion, it's probably the only aspect of his Marxist past ("opiate" and all that) Hitchens never reconsidered. His sneering at what he sees as middle-class Babbitry is of a piece with Obama's dismissal of "clingers" and David Brooks' (indeed all of the NYT op-ed types') delight in caricaturing Palin (the modern-day Babbit par excellence). For Hitchens, middle class people (it's understood we are always talking about white people) are small-minded, provincial, bigoted bores (even though they far too dim to know it). It's as if Hitchens thinks we're all living in a novel by Zola, Lewis or Dreiser. He doesn't seen to have noticed that the world has moved on from all that.

It's very odd that Hitchens has these blind spots. He's strength is in skewering people who refuse to see what's right in front of them, often because of PC-induced blindness. But he's got a few blind spots of his own.

Dark Eden said...

That's just you, using your white privilege. Because you are white. In fact, denying that your very whiteness allows you the privilege to *not* think about race, makes you a racist.
>>>>

But when you're white doesn't pretty much everything you do make you a racist these days? Including this post of course.

Maguro said...

Question for Hitchens:

You acknowledge that mass immigration from Mexico has changed southern California a lot over the past 40 years. Overall, has the change been for the better?

garage mahal said...

I didn't give those orders. Go back as far as you'd like. Just don't piss and moan when your comparison is shown to be invalid.


Hey bro, I just said I liked the get-up in the video.

Maguro said...

It's as if Hitchens thinks we're all living in a novel by Zola, Lewis or Dreiser. He doesn't seen to have noticed that the world has moved on from all that.

It's much worse than that. He's living in a Kris Kristofferson song.

Joe said...

A little walk back there, eh, Monty?

It ahsn't happened since 1975...that makes it all better.

Of course the "war criminal" thing is hard to deny, but at least you aren't trying that are you?

GMay said...

Garage,

WEWPS! Found one:

Same source in 2010.

Oddly though, the only references to Hitler this time, are from the same LaRouches that have a habit of crashing Tea Parties too.

Golly garage, why do you think lefties like to call Bush Hitler (remember, lefties actually believe it) but won't do it to Obama. They seem to be so much more respectful of Obama.


That's just so weird isn't it?

And look at all the wacko lefties that a committed 1st Echelon Troofers too!

Joe said...

@Pogo...
Do you know what a turtle is? Tortosie is the same thing.

jr565 said...

Why shouldn't whites, under democratic/liberal ways of thinking view themselves as an opressed interest group? It works for every other oppressed interest group. Is there something special about white skin and white pigmentation that prevents it's wearers from identifying themselves racially. Ah yes, whites are the majority. But as the Latinos keep mentioning, at some point they are going to outpace the whites in this country. THEN, there is absolutely no reason why a KKK member couldn't validly claim to be an opressed minority and his white power rhetoric as affirming as black power rhetoric. And anyway, why wait till whites become a minority? Considering all groups that define themselves by skin tone scapegoats whites for all the trouble in the world can whites not be claim aggrievement simply because they are the targets of the world? Particularly white men as white feminists similarly target their special brand of patriarchy as even more odious than other brands of patriarchy. The only group more scapgoated for their group identity around the world, is perhaps the Jews.
I say, let the angry white man have his interest group in the interest of soldiarity with all the other race baiters.

MadisonMan said...

You acknowledge that mass immigration from Mexico has changed southern California a lot over the past 40 years. Overall, has the change been for the better?

How are we supposed to know what California would have been like without the influx?

In other words, to what are you making a comparison?

edutcher said...

This is the kind of piece the Lefties dredge up at least once a year for about the last 30 years or so, praying it will incite race riots.

Which it never does. As Lincoln says, projection.

Montagne Montaigne said...

Spitting on soldiers and calling them war criminals.

Dust Bunny Queen. When did this ever happen, except in your fantasies?

IT NEVER HAPPENED. IT'S A CALUMNY.


Like Hell. Remember the troops being called baby killers? Remember the 'trial' of the Vietnam War staged by Bertrand Russell and all the other old Reds who couldn't wait to collaborate with Hitler during WWII? Remember troops being screamed at as they got off the plane from 'Nam (there's video)?

And then, of course, there's our own Robert Cook, who calls everybody a war criminal.

Montagne Montaigne said...

Joe, DBQ simply proved Hitchens' thesis... she is aggrieved, terribly aggrieved, but her grievances are purely and simply imaginary.

And pardon me if I'm a little sick of hearing about what may or may not have happened 35 years ago as justification for why a bunch of bible-thumping gun nuts "need to take the country back" from the commu-nazis because they are tired of paying their taxes.

Lem said...

You acknowledge that mass immigration from Mexico has changed southern California a lot over the past 40 years. Overall, has the change been for the better?

The Mexican "legal system" leaves a lot to be desired.. for example, if arrested, you are presumed guilty until you can prove you are not..

I saw a documentary recently that was alarming.

Lincolntf said...

http://www.zombietime.com/sf_anti-war_rally_oct_27_2007/

Here's a link to Zombietime (I assume you're all familiar with her great blog). Standard issue Lefties comparing troops to terrorists, from waaaa-aaay back in 2007.
Her main page has a bunch more. Signs and activists calling American soldiers war criminals, talking about the US Marines training recruits to rape, torture, murder, all that good stuff.

So Montaigne, yeah you can go fuck yourself now.

GMay said...

Well, MontyMonty really stepped in it there.

Scott M said...

@MM

Did it happen any time in the past 20 years? Any time since 1975? Is there any evidence whatsoever that it happened?

So you're willing to grant that it could have happened before 1975? That's a far cry from "never". The libs that berated our returning soldiers (a good deal of which were conscripted) really fucked up. Most I know that did are now honest enough to regret it. Own up to the history and take your lumps like a man.

As far as evidence, my father is the single-most honorable person I have ever met, so yeah, it happened. My mother and her sisters where there when he got back.

roesch-voltaire said...

Dust you are right, last night I could only find two channels that continually broadcast the Christian message, and it has been at least two days since the local news featured some helping organization for returning vets. I can only conclude those paintings from so many years ago are powerful! As for Hitch, he is alway interesting reading even when he doesn't hit it the mark.

GMay said...

MontyMonty strikes out: "And pardon me if I'm a little sick of hearing about what may or may not have happened 35 years ago as justification for why a bunch of bible-thumping gun nuts "need to take the country back" from the commu-nazis because they are tired of paying their taxes."

I'm a little tired of leftists who can't get their facts or memes straight.

Scott M said...

because they are tired of paying their taxes.

I personally only know one guy that would apply to and he's in jail for evasion...no lie. Everyone else acknowledges that taxation is a part of modern society.

What we're tired of, MM, is the wasteful use of that revenue raised. And waste is what is happening writ larger than I've ever seen before...and I'm including the last administration in that as well.

Sofa King said...

But when you're white doesn't pretty much everything you do make you a racist these days? Including this post of course.

Yes, unless you are a liberal. Then nothing you do is racist, by definition.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)
but her grievances are purely and simply imaginary.

And pardon me if I'm a little sick of hearing about what may or may not have happened 35 years ago as justification for why a bunch of bible-thumping gun nuts "need to take the country back" from the commu-nazis because they are tired of paying their taxes.


And yet I am supposed to hear and appreciate the grievances of folks who have never been slaves or suffered under Jim Crow for at least 35 years? How does that “logic” work Monty? Some groups have NO Statute of Limitations on past grievances, but others do? Please explain your theory.

Kirk Parker said...

"You're walking in a desert..."

When does Jim Morrison show up?

Lem said...

How are we supposed to know what California would have been like without the influx?
In other words, to what are you making a comparison?


A comparison to a people that do not send this kind of message.
Machete 2010

Scott M said...

Yes, unless you are a liberal. Then nothing you do is racist, by definition.

Except for existing. Self-hate is a powerful thing.

Joe said...

Kirk Parker said...
"You're walking in a desert..."


When does Jim Morrison show up?


SHUT UP this is a test!

When does Jim Morrison show up, INDEED?

Pogo said...

Is he on a horse with no name?

Has he seen attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion?

The Crack Emcee said...

You don't have to be white to feel like this country is under assault - you just have to be an unhyphenated American.

I've felt this way since I returned from living in Europe (in 2004) and finding many of the same European positions I despised, there, being pushed, here, by the Left - a blind white-hot hatred for George W. Bush, a total betrayal of their friend who's always been there, America, in a time of war and crisis, socialized healthcare, an acceptance (and extremely-hostile defense) of the global warming scam, making a multicultural fetish of skin color and basing it on injustices whites, today, had no role in (while ignoring what roles they - the people with the fetish - currently play in holding minorities back) and, of course, the whole thing anchored by NewAge pieties and slogans - "save the planet" - that were always denied and/or badly/underhandedly defended when confronted, etc.

I am an American. And, during the years 2004-2010, asserting that fact, as a non-white citizen, told those on the Left I had a "Kick Me" sign on my back bigger than any white person of the same political persuasion or national heritage. That's how I know it's not just a race thing.

Hitch is great - even when he's wrong. There's some good stuff (amongst the mess) in this article, and, if I get the chance, I'll write more on this (and the Discovery Channel wackjob), later, on my blog.

garage mahal said...

Golly garage, why do you think lefties like to call Bush Hitler (remember, lefties actually believe it) but won't do it to Obama. They seem to be so much more respectful of Obama.

I'm a lefty, I don't believe Bush was Hitler, just a dumbass, as most lefties I know believe. By the way I liked the first link better, more hotties.

jamboree said...

I'm in Southern California - white people aren't a majority here. Academics like to bleat on about this because almost w/o exception they live in tighty-whitey neighborhoods. Even their minorities just add a little spice to the dominant white culture. I've just spent my vacation in two college towns and it's the same as it ever was. What hit me was how WHITE the culture still was - even as a child, you'd have to go back to either older parent or grandparent level to get this kind of vibe.

Being a real minority - where you really do need to speak Spanish, not to impress your friends on your trip to Barcelona, but because you really do need to speak Spanish or people won't include you in their quite different from yours, but only existing lifestyle there is for all practical purposes - is quite a different experience.

Of course this hits the less rich white people first. It always did. It will continue to for quite some time.

Who said it? I can't remember. Minorities to academics and above mean more restaurant choices in their leafy white college town. It's a complete intellectualization of the reality of the raw clash of cultures and economics.

jr565 said...

GMay wrote:
Man you're right about that one.

I like rallies that have more flavorful costumes.

Do you have any videos from those?


The most hilarious thing about those pictures of anti war rallies is how common they are. You could go to any anti war rally anywhere in the US (well maybe not now that Obama is in charge - anti war rally, what's that?) and find Death to Israel, Death to zionism,Communist flags, America is imperialistic and the biggest threat to the world, Bush is a psychotic murderer, Bush is Hitler, Jews are Hitler, occpuations are wrong (But only when they are carrie out by America or Israel). etc etc ad infinitum.
And yet, the left keeps saying that the Tea Partiers are racists and extremists sanctioning violence. If you look at tea party rallies, it's people in polo shirsts and grandmoms. In anti war rallies its either naked people, or people wearing bizarre outfits, with either communist or nazi symbols on it. And yet, that 's perfectly ok. Does the left not realize how bat shit crazy they are? If you took Arkham Asylum loonies and fed them ecstasy and acid and then dumped them on the street, they wouldnt look as crazy as some of the people these anti war rallies.

Maguro said...

@MM - How are we supposed to know what California would have been like without the influx?

In other words, to what are you making a comparison
?

Of course I am asking for a subjective judgment, that is how public policy issues are debated because there's never a perfect counterfactual available.

One interesting point of comparison is the movement of American citizens in and out of California. After all, people may tell a pollster that they love and appreciate diversity, but ultimately they vote with their feet.

Back in 1970, the influx of US citizens was mostly into California. Now it's the other way around. Make of it what you will.

jamboree said...

Hitch can be so full of shit. The below paragraph, calling the grievances Imaginary - they are NOT imaginary in terms of class, you pompous muttering asshole. People who believe these things are wholly and completely shut out:

In a rather curious and confused way, some white people are starting almost to think like a minority, even like a persecuted one. What does it take to believe that Christianity is an endangered religion in America or that the name of Jesus is insufficiently spoken or appreciated? Who wakes up believing that there is no appreciation for our veterans and our armed forces and that without a noisy speech from Sarah Palin, their sacrifice would be scorned? It's not unfair to say that such grievances are purely and simply imaginary, which in turn leads one to ask what the real ones can be.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)
Is he on a horse with no name?

Has he seen attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion?


No he is NOT on a horse with no name, he wouldn’t be caught DEAD on such a beast…

However, he has had fires lighted, it was never explicitly stated if they were attack ships, or anywhere near Orion, merely that he wanted fires lighted. At night, to provide illumination, to set the night on FIRE…

An way, you’re in the desert and you see Jim Morrison, he’s on his back, Pogo, what do you do?

HT said...

Many will be sad and cynically unsurprised to know that the Democratic Party in Alabama chose a black female for circuit judge after the candidate who was elected (no Rep challenger) was I believe indicted for stealing from a client. The candidate was also a black female. The party felt that it was important that a black females replace a black female. Many might be happy to know that the SCLC came out against this decision today, calling it racist.

(Southern Christian Leadership Conference)

The Crack Emcee said...

"White people are weird, we are the only group that does not worry about our group. We are the least racist people on the planet."

That's because you're not a group. Germans, Italians, Irish, etc. - what group are you?

We're all Americans - and if you've spent time outside of America - you'd know how distinct a category that is. Outside of these borders, I've found myself commiserating with guys with "White Power" tattooed on their knuckles, because we were the outnumbered minority watching our country being attacked by others. Here, I've got white friends who are (hilariously) blacker than I am. I'm positive, at some point, the rest of you are going to become as comfortable with this reality as I am and worship me as your god.

LOL.

Pogo said...

@Joe (The Crypto Jew):

Do you make up these questions, or do they write them down for you?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

An way, you’re in the desert and you see Jim Morrison, he’s on his back, Pogo, what do you do?

Lay down beside him and try to figure out what he is looking at?

If you made a spelling mistake and you were wandering in the dessert, you could be wallowing in creme brulee.

jr565 said...

Garage Mahal:
I'm a lefty, I don't believe Bush was Hitler, just a dumbass, as most lefties I know believe. By the way I liked the first link better, more hotties.,


Really, just a dumbass? Not a nazi? Not Hitler? Funny, you must travel in a really small circle of friends.

Sofa King said...

If you took Arkham Asylum loonies and fed them ecstasy and acid and then dumped them on the street, they wouldnt look as crazy as some of the people these anti war rallies.

They don't just "look" crazy. Yeah.

Joe said...

@Pogo, the questions are written down...

@DBQ...it's people like yuo who make blade running so d@mned difficult.

AJ Lynch said...

Calumny??? Ooooh someone is using his Thesaurus today.

Lynne said...

Kirk Parker said...
"You're walking in a desert..."

When does Jim Morrison show up?


SHUT UP this is a test!


Only it's not Jim Morrison, it's your student loan officer.

I think I lost a buttonhole- oh, wait....

jamboree said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ricpic said...

They'll change their tune when we impeach the lizard.

GMay said...

garage mahal: "By the way I liked the first link better, more hotties."

For some reason, I knew you'd like the guys practicing scrotal inflation. But hey, I'm not judging.

jamboree said...

Change in SoCal over last 40 years: at first it seemed it was for the best - but after a certain point, no. Not for me. A lot of it is just the population increase period. There are way too many people now for things to be pleasant - too much competition for scarce resources (real estate, primarily, school space, jobs).

The culture at first changes, but what happens as time goes on is the intentions change. That's when it begins to feel weird. For example, let's say you start of with an intent of diversity in the name of fair play - we're all unhyphenated Americans - that kind of thing. The idea of Fair Play at all is very Anglo - very antiquated British like the idea of Good Sportsmanship.

When you get a real majority going, that intention is gone. It no longer has the background assumptions to hold it up and therefore it has no meaning.

It's hard to explain really, it has to be felt on a street level.

I'm curious to see whether there will emerge a real class consciousness in the US w/o the decoy of race always scattering it before it solidifies. Are black people going to clue in that it doesn't matter much if Obama is in control? Are white people going to clue in that it's not hispanic people themselves, but the elite interests that are served by them being there. that are the real reason behind policy - not some closed leg, smelling salt Victorian dance about diversity? Are the white academics going to clue in that it is inconsistent to blame other white people who, unlike them, are in competition for scarce resources, more than they would blame minorities for their reactions to their circumstances? Will they finally admit their own class and familial snobbery?

I doubt that last one.

Fen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fen said...

Sofa: Fen - Of course it is a parody, because Madison Man is a liberal white man. Only for conservative white men is denial of racism evidence of racism.

Okay, just making sure. These days its really hard to distinguish between the Left and Parody of it.

victoria said...

Kirby. That rally wasn't about "getting back to values" it was all about Glenn Beck. He has a christ complex and is a megalomaniac. My husband was wavering about his support of the rally and I have, via netflix, got a copy of "A Face in the Crowd." I know that this movie is brought up occasionally by some pundits but I think, even as a movie, brings up salient points. Those who listen to their own propaganda and begin to believe it are doomed. Beck was talking about divine intervention and miracles of the birds flying overhead at the beginning of the program. Please, he has no directives from God. He is motivated purely by money and power. Is he like the people he is criticizing, you bet. He is worse,because he actually wants you to believe in him and follow him and his merry band like he is a profit.

Don't know why the man gives me the heebie jeebies, but he does.

Like the Scientologists, cults of personality rarely succeed in the long run and ultimately cause more bad than good.

I did think it was funny, though, that he used the "Fanfare for the Common Man" as his theme for the "awards" (crap) that he handed out. Aaron Copeland (the composer) was an avowed Communist and a way out homosexual. I suspect that the framers of Beck's constitution didn't know that. Gave me a giggle, though.


Vicki from Pasadena

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I suspect that the framers of Beck's constitution didn't know that. Gave me a giggle, though.


Or...maybe they did and they don't care because they like the music and do not judge the man.

That was basically one of the themes of the assembly, by the way.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Like the Scientologists, cults of personality rarely succeed in the long run and ultimately cause more bad than good.

Indeed. Obama's plummeting poll numbers certainly lend support to that theory.

lucid said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
lucid said...

Why don't you ask the white firemen in New Haven or the white students whose admissions places in law or medical school went to African-Americans with lower scores whether they feel like second class citizens.

Affirmative action policies, the kind of thinking that goes along with them, and the institutionalization of a racially privileged class are severely damaging the equity and fairness of the national community.

Kirk Parker said...

Pogo,

These particular ones are written down at imdb.com.

"I have to ask, didn't you think it was a trifle unnecessary to see the crack in the Indian's bottom?"

Pogo said...

Yes! Absolutely!
I had the same dream.

Lincolntf said...

Did you guys see the vid clips at the "This Ain't Hell" blog?
The Gore-bot who went nuts at the Discovery Channel was also a big "anti-war" protester. The more I learn about this guy, the more he resembles a mainstream Democrat.

bagoh20 said...

So if I understand Hitchens' point, he has a problem with these people because of the color of their skin, ironically including the nonwhite ones for being white. How adorably prehistoric.

BTW majorities can be oppressed. Ask the Iraqi shia.

Government at all levels is overwhelmingly populated and run my liberals. That is the oppressive majority worth noting and resisting.

Shorter Hitch: "Let them eat cake."

amba said...

Nice to see Hitchens still writing about something other than cancer.

Kirby Olson said...

Vicky, I grant that Beck is quite paranoid, and he's often out there, but I like him, generally. He's a block of granite in the way of the Marxists.

Honestly, I can't listen to Beck much. I did pick up a book he cited as important -- Hayek's The Road to Serfdom, and read it cover to cover and thought it was a magnificent read.

I liked that he disclosed Van Jones' past as a Marxist revolutionary.

Beck goes after things and occasionally he's more than a rodeo cowboy -- he lassoes something or someone who needs to be corralled.

I think Beck represents something about standing up for something true about America. He's schmaltzy and very emotional, but underneath he has decent instincts.

I like what the Crack MCee says here too. Like him I was in Europe for five years in the late 90s and got tired of the reflexive anti-American spirit (I think Obama drank that particular kool-aid and thinks we can solve it by kowtowing to the emperor of Japan and always having to say we're sorry for loving our country).

I don't know.

I like Beck, Palin, and people like Rand Paul. I see them as Americans, and far better Americans than the likes of Howard Zinn and Ward Churchill.

Freeman Hunt said...

Beck's event was all about God. Surprise, surprise, Hitches doesn't like it.

Hitches should have argued it that way rather than taking the dishonest race-related position.

Freeman Hunt said...

Hitches is usually, I think, better than this:

Thus, it is really quite rare to hear slurs against President Barack Obama that are based purely on the color of his skin. Even Beck himself has tried to back away from the smears of that kind that he has spread in the past.

That's pure dishonesty. If he'd been able to find "smears of that kind" from Beck, he'd have quoted them. They don't exist, so he didn't.

AJ Lynch said...

kirby said:
"I like Beck, Palin, and people like Rand Paul. I see them as Americans, and far better Americans than the likes of Howard Zinn and Ward Churchill."

F-ing A! Me too.

Freeman Hunt said...

Oh, and of course the little coda at the end about how all those self-pitying white people might start getting violent.

Lame.

amba said...

Whiteness naturally gets mixed up with Euro-American culture: European culture as streamlined and toughened and invigorated by the frontier, and by the magical combination of the thinking of brave patrician Enlightenment philosophes with lower-class immigrants' liberation from the rigid old-country social hierarchy that suppressed their gifts.

Whiteness gets mixed up with it because white people originated much of it (although with more essential input from other cultures than anyone would like to admit). White skin, enterprise, and deferral of gratification are all survival responses to long winters.

But in the modern world with technology and air conditioning, you don't have to be white to adopt the best Euro-American culture, and unwhite people have done so to varying degrees, adding a vital ingredient to their own cultures that has enabled them to achieve competitive success.

Culture is not genetic. A part of the problem is confusing whiteness itself with its historical product. What is important is not to lose the latter in the inevitable increasing welter of a mixed-up world. Hitchens doesn't seem to know that most Tea Partiers know this.

Damon said...

The rally's defining discontentment is a divergence in values, not race. It is not a racial thing except to the extent that races may, generally, have different values.

The dangers of multiculturalism are finally being realized. People have long been taught that tolerance and multi-cultural equivalency is necessary. In fact, it is the transcendent good. People have failed to understand, and thus appreciate, that culture is more than superficial rituals or customs.

Culture is ultimately values, and divergent values will create tension. An example: Many cultures value loyalty over all else. In that culture “right” is giving your relative a job even if someone else is more deserving. Is nepotism compatible with our country's founding? No, right and wrong had a Christian meaning where hard-work was more highly valued. If you don't work you don't eat. How about cultures that justify “ethnic cleansing” under the same loyalty premise?

de Tocqueville - "I sought for the greatness and genius of America... Not until I went into the churches of America and heard her pulpits flame with righteousness did I understand the secret of her genius and power. America is great because America is good; and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." Good was defined at this Country’s start under Christian values.

Let's frame the discussion correctly and then we can have an intelligent discussion. People are revolting and agonizing over values and not race. Please get it correct.

TMink said...

I do not think there is such thing as multi-culturalism. I think it is other than white culturalism.

Seriously.

Who are the most multi-cultural folks? White people, cause as a group we don't concern ourselves with race.

Trey

William said...

There's a kind of peristaltic action that goes on with immigration. We're the children of immigrants and the grandparents of anti-immigrants. The Know Nothing Party and the northern KKK groups directed their hostility more at Catholic immigrants than at blacks. This was raw bigotry, but it did have the saving grace of hastening the Americanization of the children of immigrants. The kids really tried to blend in and adapt the mores of the surrounding culture. And who's to say: American culture is more often superior to the old bog grudges, the Calabrese resentments, the shetl suspicions that their parents brought with them from the old country.....The white immigrants did not become tribal in their loyalties and allegiances. I hope that's the way it plays out with hispanic and Asian immigrants, but the future is unknowable. It seems that there is more social pressure for whites to become accepting of the ways of immigrants than for immigrants to assimilate American culture.

Kirk Parker said...

MadisonMan,

You're a Cheesehead-American!

(NTTWWT)

amba said...

American culture is more often superior to the old bog grudges, the Calabrese resentments, the shetl suspicions that their parents brought with them from the old country

William wins the thread, IMO.

wv eudowsm

(a crank culst combining eugenics with water witching) (or maybe Wall Street witching?)

amba said...

culst=cult, hope that's obvious

vw poctenea -- a Greek tragedy about an Indian maiden

amba said...

Asian immigrants have a hard work and achievement ethic. The problem with much multicultural, affirmative-action mindset is that it does not encourage, demand, or reward that orientation in other ethnic groups.

Yet I have to observe that many Mexican immigrants, legal or illegal, work very hard. And many of the kids assimilate.

El Pollo Real said...

William wrote: It seems that there is more social pressure for whites to become accepting of the ways of immigrants than for immigrants to assimilate American culture.

then Amba wrote: Yet I have to observe that many Mexican immigrants, legal or illegal, work very hard. And many of the kids assimilate.

Both are true in my opinion. The real problem lies elsewhere and is perhaps more quantitative in nature.

Cedarford said...

Pogo said...
In which the champions of balkanization decry balkanization ...by the wrong sort.
==================
It is fairly obvious. White & Asian men have watched every other group balkanize, champion their political-economic progress, and lay heavy into claiming special privilege based on race-gender-ethnic-sexual orientation identities.

Or a special victim status that makes them immune from criticism (the "hero troops", Jews, 9/11 Families, the suffering farmer with a net worth of 19 million desperately needing more taxpayer gravy)

The average middle class white watches and is slowly losing their passivity...and is less and less inclined to hear some Harvard progressive Jewish professor, Duke student-activist, black community organizer lectire them on how "privileged" they are.

Even mainstream Democrats are catching the vib. Senator James Webb wrote in the WSJ about the inherent unjustness of affirmative action - "Why is the white son of 6 generations of Americans who fought for and built this country entitled to less consideration in jobs, federal contracts, or admission to school than the child of an illegal?"

Webb went on to say that the days of whites just "taking this kind of abuse" from the Elites is ending. He says there is growing anger at this pernicious situation, and democrats would be wise to cease identity politics pitting claims of special privilege of others against "the majority" aside as the majority is poised to become another minority soon thanks to Open Borders.

Cedarford said...

William wrote: "It seems that there is more social pressure for whites to become accepting of the ways of immigrants than for immigrants to assimilate American culture."

It goes past whites. In LA and other environs, ability to speak Spanish is a "hiring plus". And blacks and Asians are also affected by "Habla Espanol?" job requirements. Several blacks working emergency dispatch lost their jobs for "failing to use funds offered to attend language classes in their offtime to increase their familiarity with Spanish up to acceptable standards."
In San Jose, an old galfriend said that she was ordered to attend "cultural and language" sessions on her own time to make her a better supervisor at a textbook publishing plant because hispanics largely replaced the semi-skilled white and black "ink, paper, forklift" brigades in the last 20 years.
She is quitting and moving to N Carolina as soon as her husband gets his affairs wrapped up. Mainly on taxes and the sense California is getting worse by the month. But also so she feels and her family feels less of being outsiders being forced to adapt to a very different America than elsewhere in the country.

Lem said...

Lame.

Yes dear ;)

crickets...

Politics is easy.. comedy is hard.

roesch-voltaire said...

Crack-- white people belong to the group that is invisible able to peer out at the world and see other people's racism-- say Obama's, and view other people's culture as "interesting", while never thinking of ourselves as "white," but complain bitterly when things do not go our way.

Lem said...

Nice to see Hitchens still writing about something other than cancer.

That line in Vanity Fair about how he is not really battling cancer because all he does is just sit there was in the play Wit (2001) more or less intact.

I'm not saying Hitchens lifted it w/o attribution.. I'm saying great minds think alike ;)

David said...

Well, this is an interesting question.

Recently I look at an electoral map, showing what counties in the United States are 20% or more African American. That map strikingly followed the swath of the old slaveholding areas--Tidewater Virginia south along the coast, and swinging west from Georgia and South Carolina to Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana. It's the old cotton belt, and despite the outmigration it's practically the only areas where black have a large percentage of the population.

There were a few other areas--Detroit, for example. But in the vast swath of the country, the population is white, or whites and more recent non whites like Asian and Latino. (Somehow even white Latinos can be nonwhite, it seems.)

The coming day when whites are a "minority" will be achieved only through large increases of asians and Latinos, who for whatever reason assimilate more easily into the overall society.

So Hitch may be right.

But I think you are also going to see a massive effort by blacks and white liberals to cause Asians and Latinos to identify as an oppressed minority. Otherwise this end of White America will be a nonevent politically.

That effort is well underway. The Democrats are lucky to have an ally in some conservative Republicans, who would like to make "illegal immigration" a huge issue.

If the Republican Party wants to own the future, all it needs to do is call for a policy of open migration between Latin America and the USA. This is not so radical an idea. For the first 100 years or so of the country, we had no immigration restrictions, and states competed with each other by allowing aliens to vote, once they met a minimal residency requirement. As for other precedent, consider the now open borders of the European Union. Europe has its problems, but this is not one of them.

Wake up fellow Republicans. Open the borders, don't close them. Own the future.

David said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Scott M said...

Wake up fellow Republicans. Open the borders, don't close them. Own the future..

Wake up fellow Republicans. End all entitlements...all of them...and make everyone responsible for their own well-being. Open the borders, don't close them. Own the future.

There...fixed it.

Bruce Hayden said...

I think that Hitchens missed, to some extent, what Beck was trying to do.

At least as I see it, Beck is attacking the basic morality of the left. For a long time now, those on the left have assumed moral superiority to those on the right, and those on the right have accepted that.

But America is not a bad country, nor a bad place to live. Indeed, there is a lot of good here, in the country as an institution, as a culture, and in its people. We are the country that more people on this planet envy or would like to be like than any other. We are the ones who have given the rest of the world much of their technology and advancement.

So, why are we considered so evil by so many on the left in this country?

Which gets us into race. Obama was supposed to be the post-racial President. But we have seen more naked racism on the part of minorities, and, in particular, Blacks, than most of us can remember. The answer to any policy dispute is, inevitably, that those who oppose the President are racist. Those questioning Charlie Rangle or Maxine Waters about their ethics are racist. Those who don't want to spend our grandkids into the poorhouse are racists.

So, who really is morally superior? Those who reflexively call racism? Or those who really don't care about it, who are criticizing the Administration on substantive grounds?

I think that Beck was trying to show that going back to our historical roots is good, not bad, morally.

Synova said...

"That's just you, using your white privilege. Because you are white. In fact, denying that your very whiteness allows you the privilege to *not* think about race, makes you a racist."

This would be really funny if so many people didn't harbor the profound belief that it was true.

TMink said...

Serious Christians see the troubles of the country as the direct result of the choices of the faithful. That is one of the larger stories of the Old Testament. God's children turn from him, bad shit hits the fan. They return to obedience, things get better.

By just meeting, praying, and returning to obedience to God, we will make the country healthier.

It will be interesting to see where this leaves the politicians!

Trey

Maguro said...

If the Republican Party wants to own the future, all it needs to do is call for a policy of open migration between Latin America and the USA.

You've got to be kidding me. Are you Karl Rove? Attempting to out-pander the Dems for the Hispanic vote is not going to work. That strategy has been tried in the recent past and has failed spectacularly. Let's not go there again.

Setting aside electoral politics, you're not even addressing the question of whether turning the rest of the country into southern California is desirable. Can you seriously believe that more immigration from Mexico is what this country needs?

Kirby Olson said...

Freeman Hunt wrote:

"Beck's event was all about God. Surprise, surprise, Hitches doesn't like it."

And then she says that Hitchens should have been honest and gone that route.

That's a piercingly good observation, that probably no one in the mainstream media will have the sense to notice.

If we were Joes and went against the Pros, we'd win hands down, or at least that comment would catch Hitchens with his pants down, and give him a good swift kick.

amba said...

Cedarford,

How ironic that your friend is moving to NC. Better tell your friend that NC is now overrun with Mexicans, everything is bilingual by law (it's like Canada), and being bilingual is a big hiring advantage.

Apparently they've been going home lately, though.

amba said...

I'm not saying Hitchens lifted it w/o attribution.. I'm saying great minds think alike ;)

There's a third alternative: that Hitch heard it back then, it lodged somewhere in his mind and later surfaced "as his own" when called for. It is possible and common to lift something without attribution unconsciously.

I once made a pretty good dirty joke, if I do say so myself, and later discovered George Carlin had made the same joke. Independently? Or had I heard/read it once and made it my own? The latter would account for why it was a pretty good one.

Duncan said...

"It is the realization that white America is within thinkable distance of a moment when it will no longer be the majority."

It will be a while. Whites are still over 80% when you count the fact that Hispanics (a European language group not a race or an ethnicity) are mostly white. Arabs are white. Persons from the Indian subcontinent are almost all white.

Asians at 4% are the only non-white group that is growing. Blacks are stuck at circa 13% because of reduced birth rates.

It's the commies we don't like not the non-whites. And we're not anxious about the commies. We hate them and we're heavily armed.

I sat next to Ben Franklin near the Lincoln Memorial on Saturday after he took off his coat because of the heat. He looks great in the role.

9/2/10 4:12 PMBlogger Duncan said...

"It is the realization that white America is within thinkable distance of a moment when it will no longer be the majority."

It will be a while. Whites are still over 80% when you count the fact that Hispanics (a European language group not a race or an ethnicity) are mostly white. Arabs are white. Persons from the Indian subcontinent are almost all white.

Asians at 4% are the only non-white group that is growing. Blacks are stuck at circa 13% because of reduced birth rates.

It's the commies we don't like not the non-whites. And we're not anxious about the commies. We hate them and we're heavily armed.

I sat next to Ben Franklin near the Lincoln Memorial on Saturday after he took off his coat because of the heat. He looks great in the role.

Synova said...

I think that the whole premise is misdirected.

This is demonstrably true: The way to get power is to present one's self as persecuted. What works is appropriated and repeated.

But to say that the persecution doesn't happen... that's inaccurate. It certainly does happen. It happens because groups are not persecuted, not ever, individuals are persecuted. Always and only individuals. Even when it appears absolute that a group is persecuted, it's only a plurality of individuals in the group who are oppressed while others are not. Even when it appears that a group is privileged, only some members of the group are privileged while many others are not.

Twenty-five years ago, even at a conservative ag and engineering school, any white male student paying any attention at all would be clearly aware of the message that he was responsible for all the bad stuff in the world. To say that this message didn't harm him economically and thus did not matter because he was not a minority and not oppressed is simply a lie. It's a horrible thing to say to someone. It's abusive.

And this is the reality that 40-somethings, particularly those with educations, know. So how does one say that it's outrageous for a white person (and particularly a white male) to view himself as a member of a persecuted group? Men get treated very badly. They are viewed, default, as predators or criminals to the extent that I wasn't allowed to have my teen aged son supervise his little sister's in the children's section of the public library. Boys are sex offenders. Period.

Is this not damaging?

In what alternate reality is this not damaging?

victoria said...

I'm sorry. Kirby, I just don't see him as a decent sort, with good motives. He really makes me uneasy and I can't watch him for more than about 5 minutes and then I get creeped out. I guess we just look at things differently. I see Palin, Beck and Rand Paul as people trying to stir the pot, but for their own gain.
Stirring the pot, not bad in and of itself. I (eventhough I am a democrat) saw the "Contract with America" in 1994 as a good thing for the country. Totally stirred the pot. Good results. That was a positive move towards something. I just see those 3 and those of their ilk as going away, backwards, and not in a good way. I am all for the constitution and freedoms and all that but I have a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach that they want to take away rights, not give them back to us. I envision back room abortions and people being afraid to cross the "Great Beck" or the wise Palin. Sorry, just a visceral reaction.

Vicki from Pasadena

victoria said...

Yes, dust bunny. If these people were truly inclusive they would allow all to come under their tent, including the pro-choice and the pro-same sex marriage people. They are not like that and will never be. They are haters of anything that doesn't involve their version of god. No thanks


Vicki

traditionalguy said...

We are speaking about favoritism which can be abused. But the solution is a check and balance system of power...not the current entrenched Power of Priviledge taking over the new fascist top down systems and replacing traditional ways as computers have opened the gates to allow government's input into every second of every serf's life...tasers included at no extra charge if you don't like it.

victoria said...

The problem, Duncan, is that these people are playing a role, as the good Americans. I had problems with that in the 2008 election when Palin talked about the good Americans (the rural folks) and the bad Americans (the city folks).Believe me, there are as many bad rural Americans as there are good city folks. It doesn't matter where you live. Good is good and bad is bad. And we are all a little of both.


Vicki

victoria said...

You do know, hitch, that the mexicans were here before we were, as (probably) were the chinese and the irish. The influx was us, not them. I actually like living in Southern California,where the diversity is all around us. Speaking a little spanish, chinese, japanese and armenian is no biggie to me. Just part of the amalgam. Rather live here than in some place where everyone looks the same. I lived in Lake Forest, Il in the late '60's. White, white, white. I suspect it hasn't changed much in 40 years.



Vicki

Paul Zrimsek said...

It is the realization that white America is within thinkable distance of a moment when it will no longer be the majority... But it also exerts a strong subliminal effect in states like Alaska that have an overwhelming white preponderance. So I guess I must have been talking out my ass when I suggested that it has anything to do with fears of being outnumbered.

Fixed.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

So glad to see that this is what it takes to provoke 149 comments.

I'm glad to know you guys have got your priorities straight.

Synova said...

Vicky, I understand why the "good American/bad American" thing bothers you. What bothers a lot of people, though, is the constant "bad American/bad American" message. If you think America is good and Americans are special, it's easier not to hear the "bad American" quite so loudly since that's not part of the world view. I think it's possible that someone who isn't overly critical of "bad American/bad American" is going to hear that part loudly any time someone says to a crowd that "*you* represent true America". But that could be said in flyover country or in any city, at any steel mill or auto plant or any blue collar venue in the Nation. It could be said at a tech symposium or big business conference as well... "*you* drive the economy and make us great!"

Just as an exercise can you think of any situations where that message wouldn't be taken positively? "We suck" seems real popular in some venues.

Perhaps you can figure it out yourself because I don't know how to convince you that the "rah rah" rhetoric isn't generally any more serious about one group being better than the other past the fact that everyone likes to hear that they are the best, it's not any more serious most of the time than Minnesotans saying that it's windy because Iowa sucks and North Dakota blows.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

And, fuck you all, I'm white, male and middle class. I have the right to voice and pursue my economic and political self-interest.

Call me whatever kind of bigot you want. I don't give a fuck.


Instead you should just be called what you are: barely employed, nearly unemployable, alone, lonely, worn out and angry at the world.

And ignorant.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

@Viki.

Just who are "these people" in your mind? I love the way that you lump "these people" all together as if there is complete homogenous agreement on all sides from "those people".

You accuse "those people" of being bigoted, yet you, by your verbage show yourself to be a bigot.

BTW: There were no Mexicans until after Europeans settled and created Mexico. Before that they were indian tribes, Aztecs, Hopi etc. And they weren't even the first either. They migrated in and replaced even earlier populations (Kenniwick Man). No one was 'first' or gets first dibs on the country.


that the mexicans were here before we were, as (probably) were the chinese and the irish.

Surely you aren't this ignorant of history? According to your logic, parts of Northern California belongs to the Russians.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Surely you aren't this ignorant of history? According to your logic, parts of Northern California belongs to the Russians.

Methinks someone is confusing inhabitants with rulers.

Should I really be surprised?

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Paranoia is apparently a respectable tactic for the base (and I love that word) extremes of both parties. Beck isn't much different from the loony lefty types exhibited on those zombie websites or protesting Bush. The difference is that the far left seems to revel in devolved rallies devoted to silly hippie nonsense whereas the right consolidates their power in the form of a nutcase personality who broadcasts on one of the richest man's channels. Even his logo features bold-faced radio waves emanating from his initials in a way that seems to indicate strength.

Note to Beck: It's just a fucking transmission.

As I said, the left and right seem to adore the idea that wacky and ephemeral things, like love and radio waves, can be made to be much more powerful than they really are.

Lincolntf said...

Vicki sounds like she got a double dose of Zinn in her formative years.
Oh well, correcting the mis-education of Libs is a never ending (and largely thankless) task.

Rocco said...

Victoria said:
"Rather live here than in some place where everyone looks the same. I lived in Lake Forest, Il in the late '60's. White, white, white."
So white people all look the same to you? Wow.

Synova said...

"So white people all look the same to you? Wow."

Actually they do. I worked with a lady who said when she moved to Minnesota she couldn't pick her new friend out of all the other kids in the cafeteria because they all looked the same.

It takes familiarity before a person learns to discount features that people have in common as identity clues. It's not racism, it's just how our brain processes things.

Synova said...

"Methinks someone is confusing inhabitants with rulers."

Why?

Vicky said Mexicans, Chinese and Irish... the Chinese and Irish never "ruled". So I think that the context was clearly "inhabitants", unless you were criticizing Vicky rather than DBQ. By the standard of "inhabitants" Russians count, and they even "ruled" Alaska. Scandinavians had settlements in the "new world" as well.

blake said...

amba--

My favorite example is having personally written "House of the Rising Sun". Like you, I knew I didn't write it--it was too good!

Michael McNeil said...

Vicky said Mexicans, Chinese and Irish… the Chinese and Irish never “ruled”. So I think that the context was clearly “inhabitants”, unless you were criticizing Vicky rather than DBQ. By the standard of “inhabitants” Russians count, and they even “ruled” Alaska. Scandinavians had settlements in the “new world” as well.

Right. But pace Vicky's assertion, unlike the Vikings, there's no good reason to think that either Chinese or Irish made it to this continent before Columbus (except perhaps for a few Viking-ized Irish). There is no reason to think that the “Prince Madoc” legend of an pre-Columbian Welsh expedition to and settlement in America are true.

Synova said...

Yeah, I know.

But the real question is... what if extraterrestrials once visited or even stayed for a while, what then?

;-)

deborah said...

Bruce Hayden said...

So, who really is morally superior? Those who reflexively call racism? Or those who really don't care about it, who are criticizing the Administration on substantive grounds?

I think that Beck was trying to show that going back to our historical roots is good, not bad, morally."

Why does he have to be such a narcissistic BOOB about it? It's quite sickening.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

By the standard of "inhabitants" Russians count, and they even "ruled" Alaska.

She said Northern California, Speed Reader.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

She said Northern California, Speed Reader

They call it Russian River for a particular reason, dipshit.

Pick up a history book, estupido, and read about the Russian presence in Northern California. Fort Ross.. Bodega Bay... And that means north of San Fran--fucking---cisco.

c3 said...

I worry when large groups of white people get together too!

Synova said...

(Yes, I know that no one is here, but...)

She said California... she also said IRISH.

Not unreasonably I concluded that the conversation was not limited strictly to California.