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My bet is that it's nothing unusual.
After reading the article way past red alert headlines and blow by blow events it turns out to be our government masters trying to look important with another scare story run through their Media-Governmental Complex. The very last sentence casually mentions there is NO PROBLEM unless you are so stupid that you forget to cook raw eggs prior to eating them. Even then it is a brief and mild discomfort that kills no one.
If you put all those eggs in a swimming pool, and jumped off the high dive -- or the 10-m platform -- what would happen?I think that would be an interesting experiment.
These large factory egg farms pollute our systems in more ways than this which is why I am off to the farmer's market to buy local.
MadisonMan: I think that would be an interesting experiment.No, it would be an interesting eggsperiment.
"If you put all those eggs in a swimming pool, and jumped off the high dive -- or the 10-m platform -- what would happen?"Shells on or off? If a billion eggs were made into egg salad, how large would the slices of bread need to be to make the biggest egg salad sandwich of all time?
That one is easy, Althouse. Texas toast!
We seem to have these little scares about every 2 years or so. Probably part of the Democrat Party's program of manufacturing crises that shouldn't be allowed to go to waste.Ann Althouse said..."If you put all those eggs in a swimming pool, and jumped off the high dive -- or the 10-m platform -- what would happen?"Shells on or off? If a billion eggs were made into egg salad, how large would the slices of bread need to be to make the biggest egg salad sandwich of all time?Not unlike the old arithmetic problem:If a train leaves Topeka heading east at 40 mph and a train leaves St Louis heading west at 50 mph, who's buried in Grant's Tomb?
Some of us take that advice a little far. Something I didn't realize until watching my then 2 year old in front of a toy kitchen for the first time. Touch food, wash hands, open oven, wash hands, remove cooked food, wash hands. Rinse and repeat.
If all those eggs were in a swimming pool, and you threw in a Baby Ruth, would anyone want to eat an egg salad sandwich?WV: tracker
who's buried in Grant's Tomb?Trick question. The answer is: Nobody! The remains are above ground level.
If you buy your eggs at a farmer's market or the like the thing you want to wash is the egg. Those little hard brown or green encrusted spots are chicken poop. If you crack the egg to separate or to cook you want to have a clean egg. The inside of the egg is not the problem with salmonella. It's the outside of the egg. Thoroughly wash the egg. If those aforementioned spots survive the soap, water, brushing, and fingernail picking they almost certainly won't flake off into your egg when you break the shell. Watch what you're doing.
So who eats egg sushi? They are the only ones at risk here. That egg salad sandwich the Professor is dreaming about is making me hungry.
Lucky for me, I have had a pathological fear of undercooked whites & yolks since Grandma made me eat a sunny-side-up egg when I was three. Thinking about it still makes me gag. Make mine scrambled & make sure they're done.
The inside of the egg is not the problem with salmonella.Not true of this salmonella, according to one article I read. Here, the chickens' ovaries are infected with salmonella, which they got from eating rodent shit. Every egg they lay has the gift of salmonella deep inside.Let's keep rodent shit out of our food supply, so I can eat runny yolks once more.
Eggs are an abomination!
The inherent problem with a cloaca
As a med student I remember well the case while on my pediatric rotation of an entire family that developed overwhelming salmonella sepsis after eating home made ice cream with eggs from their own chickens. Lesson learned:Wash you eggs and discard any that are cracked. (In case you didn't figure it out, salmonella is normal flora in the chicken GI tract)
If your date offers you eggs on a date, you should decline.
"These large factory egg farms pollute our systems in more ways than this which is why I am off to the farmer's market to buy local."Don't forget to stop by the local organic metalworker's shop and get your halo polished during your walk to the marketplace in the shire.You are walking down to the market, aren't you?...A lot of cuisine depends upon lightly-cooked or uncooked eggs. Homemade mayonnaise, hollandaise sauce, buttercream frostings, properly cooked French omelets... overcooked eggs are disgusting.Salmonella is very rare. This egg scare represents less than 1% of the US egg production. The US produces about 7 billion eggs per month.
""These large factory egg farms pollute our systems in more ways than this which is why I am off to the farmer's market to buy local."A near universal misconception just like local and organic produced foods.For example, the same number of eggs produced by small farms would create far more pollution due to duplication of sources and waste, which is much reduced in large scale operations, that also tend to incorporate state-of-the-art pollution control and recycling systems to lower costs.I prefer local production myself, but not due to pollution. I just like localized human codependency and cooperation, but it does nearly always produce more pollution per unit of product, even with transportation factored in.
Paladian is right. What's next? No oysters? A little risk with your food is the price you pay for life. Look on the bright side. At least you do not have to kill mammoths anymore with spears.
What Pallidian said. Adding homemade ice cream, well-made mousses, fried eggs over easy, and, of course, raw cookie dough. Maybe if I were pregnant (oh, great, something else to worry about when/if that day comes) or had a bum immune system, I'd worry about this, but the risks of even encountering such an egg are so low, and the likelihood of a very serious illness if I do are even lower, that I'm not going to give up taste to worry about it. - Lyssa
And farm fresh eggs are 1000% better than factory farm eggs. They are fresher, the chickens generally get to walk around and get in the sun, and they eat a more varied diet (not just controlled feed). Nothing wrong with chicken feed, but eggs are soooo much better if the chickens eat a variety grass, veggies, fruit, etc. Some animal protein (bugs, etc.) helps too. Chickens are ominvores and need protein.
Palladian;Salmonella is very rare. This egg scare represents less than 1% of the US egg production. The US produces about 7 billion eggs per month.We don't need no stinkin' perspective!!
Is the sandwich ready yet?
So what happens to a fertilized egg that is infected with Salmonella? Does the chick develop normally or not? Does it grow 2 heads? If so, then when you cut one off, does the chicken still run around like his head is chopped off, or is it like a divorce where the remaining one-headed chicken would buy a Corvette and cruise the coop making a fool of himself? NTTIAWWT
I dunno, I've eaten factory eggs, and farm eggs, and they all taste like eggs to me. I think the difference is in peoples' minds. I will say though that I generally prefer to buy the fancy "omega3, whole-grain-fed, free range" eggs in the special protective carton, mostly because the eggs just seem to have been packaged with more care, and the protective carton (which is plastic) seems to keep them from cracking better than the foam or cardboard cartons. But if I'm low on funds I'll buy the cheap factory eggs.
What are "farm fresh" eggs? Does it mean there was a window in the building or something? The image of the pecking around in the dirt AT&T the farmer in the dell's place is probably inaccurate. Maybe if you keep your own chickens in the yard the eggs will taste different and be fresher.
The word 'cloaca' never fails to crack me up. But the word 'vent' is nearly as funny.
In honor of this salmonella scare, I made myself une omelette baveuse for lunch— moist, tender and delicious, just the way I learned from Julia. Do it exactly the way she demonstrates and you'll have a delicious experience. And if you have the chance, get one of these French plain steel pans and reserve it strictly for making omelets. Perfect!As far as "factory" vs farm eggs, there actually is a difference in taste, just as there's a difference in taste and color between eggs of one breed of hen and another. I have the privilege of occasionally eating eggs from a relative's home farm— I even get to collect them from the nests— and they're absolutely more flavorful and different in texture than "factory" eggs. But to frame it, a la self-righteous lefties, as some sort of moral issue is ridiculous. And of course I use plain old "factory" eggs when I don't have the chance to get other kinds. They're perfectly good. In fact my luncheon omelette was made from "factory" eggs that came in a Styrofoam carton.
When I say "factory" eggs, I mean high-volume, standard indoor American egg production from high-egg-volume producing hens. When I say "farm" eggs, I mean eggs produced by smaller, lower-volume farms that allow their hens to roam and sometimes keep breeds that haven't been bred to lay in excessive quantities.Another difference between "factory" and low-production egg hens is that the shells of eggs from high-egg-volume producing hens are usually quite thin and easy to break. Smaller egg volume hens, old breeds and free-range farming often produces thicker-shelled eggs.In other words, the difference is aesthetic rather than "moral".
By the way, if you buy one of those French steel pans, here's how I season them: Rub the pan over with #0000 steel wool then wash & dry it, rub the interior and rim with 50/50 lard and walnut oil and put it in a 450 degree oven for an hour. Remove it from the oven, allow to cool, then wipe out the fat. Put in more lard/walnut oil and heat on the stove top till the fat starts to smoke. Allow to cool, wipe out the fat thoroughly, throw a little salt in the pan and wipe that around and out with paper towels and your pan is seasoned.After you do this, never wash the pan again. If you reserve it for omelets and simply wipe it out with paper towels after each use, allowing a film of fat to remain in the pan, it will get better and better and your omelets will never stick. Just protect the pan from moisture, as it will easily rust. It's best to rub the entire pan over with a thin film of lard then slip the whole thing in a plastic bag if you plan to store it for a long while between uses.
Real men don't cook eggs. (Real stupid men.)
Eggs are good for you. This is once again a government overreaction. For you folks who believe we all would be better off with eggs "fresh" from the local farm - a clue, there would NEVER be enough local chicken farms to provide the number of eggs we eat.Is my omelet ready?
My dad used drink a raw egg in a glass of beer each and every morning, first thing upon waking up. He never got Salmonella, but died of a heart attack at 52. Of course he ate everything with a beer including continuous boiler makers most evenings.BTW, the eggs were always "farm fresh". My god people, please be careful!
I'm more partial to eating eggs of endangered species. For example, eagle eggs. First off you get more egg for your buck and thus you can make an omelette with one egg that you would normally need 4 eggs to make. Plus, eagles are not put into chicken coops where they wallow in their own feces, so you get eggs free of most pollutants, let alone hormones and antibiotics.
Oh shut up.
I barter for fresh eggs from neighbor who keeps laying hens. The eggs are soooo tasty and I can make mayo & aoli without worry. I still take the normal egg/chicken sanitary precautions such as washing the shells thoroughly, disenfecting the sink and counter and refrigerating them quickly. Even well kept, organically fed, free range chickens fall prey to a host of icky fowl maladies.
What we need now is a Temple Grandin for the chicken coop industry.
Great scene from a great movie.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYJFZwxoi_8And it wouldn't have worked as well with raw eggs. If the challenge were instead to drink 50 raw eggs the next scene would probalby have been Luke getting his stomach pumped at the local hospital.Even criminals know you're supposed to cook your eggs.
I was born and grew up in Russia. Lived there for the first 17 years of my life. A fresh egg every other morning was a standard routine for a lot of kids (especially in summer for us city kids when we spent our school breaks on our grandparents' farms). Having lived in the States for over 20 years now, I still don't understand this preoccupation with raw eggs. I can't imagine that health conditions on farms here are that much worse than in Russia back in the 70s-80s.
I was listening to NPR a couple of weeks ago (Please don't tel!) and their dining show had a panel do a blind (and blindfolded) test on Free-range, Organic, Farmer and Industrial eggs. All were dismayed to report they couldn't tell the difference in taste. It's already pretty well proven there is no difference in nutritional value. Hummm. Sacred cows die hard.As for samanella, we already have a foolproof means of eliminating that threat, and a host of other pathogens, on eggs, meat, veggies and will give sealed un-refrigerated milk a shelf life of weeks. Irradiation is simple, inexpensive compared to the costs of illness, destroyed food and refrigeration, and DOES NOT make the food or those partaking thereof radioactive. Unfortunately the technology has been hijacked by our elitist scientific Luddites, those for whom progress is an accidental and regrettable product.
I understand that the eggs they are talking about are contaminated "within" the egg shell" not just on the surface.They believe they come from contaminated hens who harbor the backteria. Just read this online..... worth looking into however before we decide
I have my own hens and own eggs. The chicks I got this spring have just started laying. The little brown eggs are so cute. In a few weeks the eggs will be full sized. I don't think I've gotten any new green eggs so far. The green egg layers are larger hens and not bred for production. I also have one hen of that breed that is eight or nine years old and still lays an egg or two, which is unheard of. Mostly the production hens lay heavily for a couple of years and are done.In any case, you'd think I'd be all impressed with how my eggs are better than other eggs. Safer. Cleaner. They aren't. The chickens get to run around a little bit, but it's still in their own poop. Chickens poop a lot. Every living thing in their pen is dead, and it's not even that small. Pullets (the "maiden" hens) act different than the older ones and the dogs see "food" so they didn't get the whole back yard this year. If they had, every living thing in the whole back yard would be dead.If the hens just get grain and lay-pellets their eggs are like store eggs. If they have the yard and eat everything, or if I give them alfalfa hay the yolks are deep orange. It's the greens that turn the yolk color. I think they do taste a little better with the greens.But safer? No way.
Ann, what are you, a chicken?
Cook them. Wash your hands!You mean I'm supposed to give up my Rocky-style breakfasts?Have you never wanted to do anything that was dangerous?
I've produced and sold eggs on a small scale, both caged and barnyard (free range). Caged hens eat "chicken feed" which is purchased grain etc. products. Barnyard hens eat anything they can find, including pecking around in chicken poop and cow patties, and whatever weeds, bugs, etc. they can find. Caged hens usually walk around on wire screens so their poop falls through and they don't walk in it or eat it. The result is caged eggs have a fairly consistent taste and texture, and barnyard eggs veay all over the place in taste and yolk texture & color. That's my observation. For consistency, I prefer caged eggs. I've never come across a barnyard egg that I thought was markedly better than a typical caged egg, but I've tasted some that were certainly worse.
Nothing wrong with chicken feed, but eggs are soooo much better if the chickens eat a variety grass, veggies, fruit, etc. Some animal protein (bugs, etc.) helps too.Don't forget the rodent feces!
I recently made a batch of mayonnaise from eggs that eventually got recalled. Nobody got sick... though I believe that the acidity of the lemon in the recipe helps kill the bacteria.
"I believe that the acidity of the lemon in the recipe helps kill the bacteria."Many micro-organisms need a specific range of pH to multiply and even survive. From my quick research, Salmonella-genus bacteria require a pH range of 4.4 to 9. If you keep your mayonnaise on the acidic side (a lower pH value), and especially if you don't eat it right away, many microorganisms will be destroyed or severely inhibited by the hostile, acidic environment. Nice, tart mayonnaise with a pH of around 3 is probably not going to make anyone sick.And remember, it's not usually the mayonnaise that spoils in food containing it, it's the other stuff that provides the hospitable environment for the growth of microorganisms.
In the spring and summer, we get fresh eggs a few times a month from a local woman who also raises rabbits (not for pets). Rabbit in lemon sauce, ftw! The eggs are much better than the ones in the store. Darker yolks, firm whites and very thick brown and sometimes blue shells. World of difference from the flabby, fragile, stale eggs in the supermarket.You do have to wash the eggs sometimes before using. Big deal.My Grandmother would always tell us...."you're gonna eat a peck of dirt before you die" I don't know how big a peck is but when I drop something on the floor and use the 5 second rule, I think about that.I've eaten many underdone eggs in my life; even raw eggs and I'm still alive.Much ado about nothing and the Nanny State trying to make a BFD about anything it can so that the government can keep us in control.
"And farm fresh eggs are 1000% better than factory farm eggs. They are fresher, the chickens generally get to walk around and get in the sun, and they eat a more varied diet (not just controlled feed). Nothing wrong with chicken feed, but eggs are soooo much better if the chickens eat a variety grass, veggies, fruit, etc. Some animal protein (bugs, etc.) helps too. Chickens are ominvores and need protein."Penn and Teller did a great Bullshit episode on the farm-raised/organic food scam. In a blind taste test, every one of the folks who thought the organic/farm fresh food was better were totally surprised when it turned out to be factory/non-organically grown food.People are paying much more for food that is not only not better tasting, but also not significantly better for the environment.But, hey, if it makes them feel good about themselves, well that's something I guess.
Chip;The word 'cloaca' never fails to crack me up.hopefully, you alone, and not the eggs
@SynovaI occasionaly get eggs from friends who supplement the grain feed with greens from the veggie garden and table/kitchen scraps and the yolks are a deep gold or orange. The yolk is also larger and the texture denser. Those eggs do taste different than factory eggs or the bartered grain fed eggs, not necessarily "better" just different.
What I really hate is the hysteria with which this information is presented. I had a doctor's appointment Thursday, and the whole time, 30 minutes each way, I listened to a local news radio station. Honest to God, they made it sound like an imminent nuclear attack. And I don't remember even one mention of washing, cooking thoroughly, etc.Then I got to thinking. Is it just me, or has the "news" reporting gotten even more hysterical this past year or so?Here in the Detroit area we've had "tornado watch" news that lasted for hours [repeating the exact same info over and over and over until I thought my ears would bleed just from having it on as background noise]. Before that we had "lightning alerts". Same thing. Then there are the drownings, apartment break-ins, and, my favorite, winter storms.You would think that we had never had a "winter storm" in Michigan before. Not a blizzard, just a "winter storm".I wonder if it has anything to do with a declining audience."Scary shit happening in YOUR neighborhood!!!!!!!!!! News at 11."Jeez.
Can I get salmonella from eating fried eggs with runny yolks? I wish we'd get over our superstitions and just irradiate everything that can spoil.
"Can I get salmonella from eating fried eggs with runny yolks?"Yes. But you can get salmonella from almost anything if the conditions are right and the bacteria is there.The truth is you are highly unlikely to get salmonella poisoning from eating eggs, as very few eggs are infected with salmonella bacteria. Rinse off the egg with hot water before you break it, and enjoy your eggs the way you like them. Don't waste your life worrying about things that are unlikely to happen.
This comment thread explains why the yolks are orange here in Germany. I'd wondered.
"This egg scare represents less than 1% of the US egg production. The US produces about 7 billion eggs per month."How much less than 1%? 1% of 7B is 70M. That's a lot of bad eggs.
With such caution you never experience the ultimate Mighty Caesar with raw egg. I take the chance because you only go around once.
Synova, I have chickens too. The eggs are better. Far better. The yokes are bright orange from all the beta carotene that they eat. Fresh veggies and fruits keep the chickens happy. An no jokes about the Kids In The Hall skits of the Chicken Lady I posted above. There is no abomination stuff at Fred4Pres' chicken coup. That sort of stuff only happens in Canada.
You can get sick from oysters, raw fish, and a host of other things. But if the food is fresh and of high quality the risk is very low. Live life and stop worrying. But the most dangerous food of all for food poisoning? Plain ordinary chicken.
"But the most dangerous food of all for food poisoning? Plain ordinary chicken." I don't know about that. Most common perhaps, but not the most dangerous. That would surely be botulism from some kind of anaerobic food preparation.
Jorg wrote:What I really hate is the hysteria with which this information is presented. I had a doctor's appointment Thursday, and the whole time, 30 minutes each way, I listened to a local news radio station. Honest to God, they made it sound like an imminent nuclear attack. And I don't remember even one mention of washing, cooking thoroughly, etc.Once Al Qaeda realized they couldn't get their hands on a dirty bomb they resorted to the next best thing. Eggs contaminated with salmonella. If only noone cooks them and washes their hands they will achieve a great victory, praise Allah!
"The image of the pecking around in the dirt AT&T the farmer in the dell's place is probably inaccurate."Ha! I wrote that on my iPad in a café and didn't notice the autocorrect. Sorry!
How much less than 1%? 1% of 7B is 70M. That's a lot of bad eggs.It's all the eggs that have been recalled, which is every egg that two large farms produced between April and now (that is around 500,000,000). The great majority of those eggs have nothing wrong with them. (As we can see by looking at salmonella cases; the article says there have been about 1300 more than usual, and that sets an upper bound on salmonella-infected eggs.)
I actually have some knowledge on this subject. I raise free-range chickens (just 30 or 40, depending on how evil the local coyotes are at the time) and sell what eggs we don't use at the local farmers' market.Each state has its own rules for selling eggs. Even those of us who sell locally have to abide by those rules - which are, in Kansas, anyway- we have to wash the eggs before selling them and we have to date the egg cartons one month from the date the eggs are laid. And our name, address and phone number must be on the carton.Because my chickens are true free-rangers, they wander around the yard, the pastures and the woods. They eat not only bugs, but mice and snakes and voles - I've watched them catch the above critters, and run joyously around, showing off their catch, while all the other chickens (and guineas, ducks and peafowl) chase the chicken with the prize until they all get a bite. They are most definitely omnivores.There is a protective coating that is deposited on the egg shell when it is laid that (in the case of a fresh egg) cannot be permeated by bacteria like salmonella. Now, as soon as you wash the outside of the egg, that protection is gone, gone, gone, and as the egg ages, there is a higher risk of contamination.I would NEVER sell an egg with any fecal material on it, by the way - my eggs are washed right before I take them to market - I collect them daily, refrigerate them for up to a week (we have a once weekly farmers' market here) and then I wash them with anti-bacterial soap either the morning I take them to market or the night before.Eggs from huge producers are treated quite differently. Also, most state laws allow grocery stores to restamp the dates on egg cartons if they change the grade to a lower one - you can get much, much older eggs from the grocery store than you would from a local producer.If you wonder why eggs are only $1 a dozen at Aldis, well, they are likely Grade B (old). You can check for egg freshness by putting the egg in a bowl of water, if it stays flat down at the bottom, it is very fresh - if it floats, toss it. If it stands on end, it is still edible, but use it quickly, and cook it well.Generally, eggs that are from free range hens will have a very deep orange colored yolk, not a pale yellow one. They have more Omega 3 fats in them than factory produced eggs, and the chickens, outside of the risk of being eaten by hawks and coyotes, have a much happier life, and on my farm, when they get too old to lay, they still live here, happily chasing bugs and voles and little snakes.The government is pushing these food poisoning events because they want to over-regulate. You should look into some of the regulations currently being considered by the FDA and USDA. These regs are going to increase the price of food considerably, if they are put into place - and they are doing it all under the guise of food safety.These regs will also likely put small producers like myself out of business. I'll still raise chickens for our eggs, but I'll be disallowed from selling the eggs to anyone else unless I take some draconian steps and agree to paperwork for each individual chicken from hatching until death - if a skunk, opossum, raccoon, coyote or hawk kills a chicken, I'd have to report that to the government.
hmmmmmm...."Farms, restaurants, (including all operations that prepare food for, or serve food directly to consumers), fishing vessels not engaged in processing, and firms regulated exclusively by USDA would be exempted from the new recordkeeping requirements."Ooops Ann is taken for a ride.
Do you have cites there? Are you talking about the same regulations? I have no idea.
Do we have cities in Kansas? Um, yes. The State of Kansas has regulations for anyone who sells eggs. If you have under 200 chickens, and you sell directly to the consumer, either at your farm or at a Farmers' Market, the regs I mentioned apply. It does not matter if I sell my eggs at a Farmers' Market in Kansas City, Kansas, Topeka, Wichita or Leavenworth (which is the city I do sell my eggs, and my handspun yarns and mohair in).So far, the food safety bills I am talking about do not have exemptions for small producers in them. Both the House bill (which has passed) and the Senate bill (which has not yet passed) have severe reporting requirements, and the only thing I would be exempt from is the $500 a year registration fee (Since I make maybe $200 a year from eggs, well, why bother!).There is no exemption for the paperwork requirements of the bill for small farms. I'm not sure why the other commenter would think I'm trying to pull one over on Ann, why on earth would I do that?Big Ag loves this bill - it will severely reduce competition - and the egg producers with the bazillion bad eggs will still be in business and will still be able to sell crappy eggs. :)
Eggscuse me, (sorry) but what bothered me most about the story is all the reported rapes of workers at this guy's chicken coop.Second is the fact that he's gotten away with $o many violation$ for $o long.Third is I'm not going to eat Huevos Rancheros ever again.
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