August 27, 2010

"They have a right to rally. But what they don't have the right [to] do is distort what Dr. King's dream was about."

Said Al Sharpton, narrowly defining rights. It's so close to the time when everyone was talking about the mosque near Ground Zero and even the staunch opponents assured us that there was a right to build the mosque, but that didn't mean it was a good thing to do.

I haven't been following this controversy, and I don't really know what Glenn Beck and his cohort are doing that could be construed as "distort[ing] what Dr. King's dream was about." But it's quite obvious that we all do have a right to distort King's ideas or any other ideas as much as we damned well please. And Sharpton and the rest of us also have a right to say that there is no such right, but it's not good to say that. Because it's not true. And it's anti-freedom. Ironically.

219 comments:

1 – 200 of 219   Newer›   Newest»
Almost Ali said...

What?

El Pollo Real said...

Fight The Glower!

Almost Ali said...

"Cohort"?

:an accomplice; abettor: He got off with probation, but his cohorts got ten years apiece. - Random House

AC245 said...

Said Al Sharpton...

Is there anyone in America who still cares what Tawana Brawley's race pimp has to say?

As long as he's not inciting people to murder more people and burn down more small businesses, it's better just ignore this racist throwback.

Retriever said...

Thank you for saying so succinctly what I was just frothing at the mouth about for far too long to my (bored) college kid. Can't understand why she was more interested in her RPG than who defines rights....(ahem)

GMay said...

Sharpton talking about distortiing MLK's dream, eh?

Ironic, considering that guy is too blinded by the color of someone's skin to see the content of their character.

Leland said...

Sadly, Al Sharpton's comments aren't nearly as bad as the former DC Congressional rep that compared the Beck Rally to a KKK rally. And then proceeded to call on blacks to counter protest.

I guess some people have to keep judging people by the color of their skin rather than the content of their character. It really is a shame.

Dead Julius said...

The whole purpose of Glenn Beck's rally is to demonstrate the power of the obstructionist mob and stick one in the eye of Obama & Co.

They don't have a de facto right to rally. Practically speaking, assembling in our nation's capitol is a privilege, not a right. The rally will go ahead only with the consent of the leaders of our regime.

Right now that consent is being granted. But it can be taken away at any moment. If Obama & Co decide to, they can easily order demonstrations like this prevented in the name of national security.

After all, Glenn Beck is anti-administration, and nowadays there's not much difference between being anti-administration and being a threat to national security.

The MLK thing is just a distraction. Who cares about MLK now, save for the obnoxious uppity black guy on a soapbox?

Doug Wright said...

In the same vain that DJ commented: That "obnoxious uppity black guy on a soapbox" has subverted MLK's word. The character of a person no longer has meaning, it's his political stripe that is what determines a person's value these days.

In other words: "No power to the people"

wv: incho and he'll take a mile.

David said...

Al is narrowly defining your rights. His rights are more expansive.

The Crack Emcee said...

Wait - I'm confused:

Al Sharpton held a (mock) funeral for the word "nigger" and white people now resort to baby talk ("the n-word") to accommodate his foolishness over what we can say with our own mouths.

Wasn't he Tawana Brawley's pimp, then, too?

GMay said...

Hey DJ,

Could you expound upon this for a dullard like me?

"...and nowadays there's not much difference between being anti-administration and being a threat to national security."

Then can you go back and explain what the hell an "obstructionist mob" is in the context you used?

It must be getting late.

Palladian said...

Distorting black people is racist.

edutcher said...

Ann, the big manufactured issue is that the Beck rally takes place on the 47th anniversary of the "I have a dream" speech at the same place.

We all obsessively observe 47th anniversaries, after all.

If anyone has tarnished Dr King's dream ("judged by the content of their character rather than the color of their skin"), I put Rev Al right beside Jesse Jackson. I'd love to see somebody on Fox mention Crown Heights, Freddy's Fashion Mart, and Yankel Rosenbloom to the Sharpster the next time he bloviates about this.

Dead Julius said...

The whole purpose of Glenn Beck's rally is to demonstrate the power of the obstructionist mob and stick one in the eye of Obama & Co.

The whole purpose is exercise of the First Amendment (Freedom of Speech, Freedom to Peaceably Assemble and Petition the Government for Redress of Grievance). You know, unimportant stuff that you're not allowed to do if you're not a Lefty.

Quayle said...

It's about ownership and control.

"I have a dream" to Sharpton means "make sure you control the tits on the cow that keeps on giving MLK."

PatCA said...

I wonder how the media will portray the contrast in attendance at the dueling rallies. :)

Beck has his failings, but I think a day of reverence is good. Best of luck to them all.

jaed said...

Al Sharpton is complaining about someone else distorting Martin Luther King's dream?

Al Sharpton?

AL SHARPTON?

Freeman Hunt said...

I am definitely watching the rally tomorrow. It's supposed to stream live on the rally's Facebook page... wherever that is, though I'm sure it won't be hard to find.

I have family there. Heck, I would probably be there myself if I didn't have an immediate family member with grave medical issues.

peter hoh said...

No one has the right to not be offended.

Jason (the commenter) said...

peter hoh: No one has the right to not be offended.

But in America everyone acts like they do.

Fen said...

Al Sharpton lecturing us on distorting MLK's dream?

Ha. Whats the next act? A Bill Clinton seminar on sexual predation in the workplace?

Leland said...

What?!? Take that back Jason, that's not true...

Oh wait...

Just kidding...

Anne said...

peter hoh: No one has the right to not be offended.
Someone please tell that to the ACLU and the progressive judges who keep telling the conservatives to stop talking about religion because it offends the anti-religious.

Dead Julius said...

A Restoring Honor rally... celebrating "our heroes, our heritage and our future", that pays "tribute to America's service personnel and other upstanding citizens who embody our nation's founding principles of integrity, truth and honor".

How wonderfully smug and kitsch-y! YAY MILITARY! YAY "UPSTANDING CITIZENS"! How about Grizzly Mama??? Yup, Palin will be speaking. All we need is some baseball... wait, wait, what's this? Baseball superstar Albert Pujols and St. Louis Cardinals Manager Tony La Russa? Perfect!

Now cue the offended black people muttering about MLK with Al Sharpton at the helm... assuming, that is, that they make it all the way to the counter-protest and aren't distracted by the many opportunities to smoke crack and lazily drink forties that D.C. offers.

Is any of this real?

I'll be watching online and I really really really hope to see a violent brawl break out. Then it'll be worth it.

Freeman Hunt said...

What the website about it says is quite unlike, I think, what Beck has been saying about it.

lucid said...

If you're a white male, you don't have any rights.

Freeman Hunt said...

The website for the live stream tomorrow is here. I will be interested to find out what they talk about. I will also be interested to see how many people show up. DC is packed.

Freeman Hunt said...

My guess is that the thing is going to be more religious revival than political rally.

peter hoh said...

Al Sharpton lecturing us on distorting MLK's dream?

Fen: Ha. Whats the next act? A Bill Clinton seminar on sexual predation in the workplace?

Newt Gingrich on the sanctity of marriage.

peter hoh said...

Or maybe Glenn Beck on the wisdom of purchasing French coins at hyper-inflated prices.

Freeman Hunt said...

Do all radio talk show hosts have busy webpages with multiple headers? All the ones I've visited are like that. The link per 1000 square pixels rate must be huge. Why?

Retriever said...

Probably the tracking cookies they insert?

Revenant said...

The day I learn Sharpton has said something I don't find completely odious and un-American, I'll worry.

El Pollo Real said...

Just wondering how far away from the Lincoln Memorial this would have to be to be acceptable to Sharpton and his ilk.

MrBuddwing said...

If you're a white male, you don't have any rights.

Gee, I hope you're being ironic. Unless you really believe America is a country where a white male can't catch a break.

No one has the right to not be offended.

Funny thing about free speech. When it comes to speech that infuriates the right, the left talks a good game by quoting Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. ("not free thought for those who agree with us but freedom for the thought that we hate"), but when it comes to speech that infuriates the left, suddenly "speech has consequences" and words hurt.

Clyde said...

If Sharpton REALLY believed in Dr. King's dream, he'd give up race huckstering in favor of seeking a color-blind America. Ditto the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. They're not in favor of equal treatment for all Americans, either. Now that they're no longer oppressed and the worm has turned (see the Obama "Justice" Department's response to the New Black Panther Party voter intimidation case in Philadelphia in the 2008 election), the NAACP is just fine with those "crackers" getting discriminated against.

The old civil rights crowd are now in favor of civil wrongs, as long as they get to be on the giving end of it.

Tidy Righty said...

King was a Communist who should have been shot as a traitor for undermining the country during the Vietnam war. It is great that Mr. Beck is trying to restore the honor that was lost during the 1960s by the likes of this grand-daddy of all race hustlers. The coming Republican majority needs to get rid of the King holiday.

MrBuddwing said...

Oh yes, Tidy Bowl, I've heard of you - the original Moby Dick.

World verification: orsis.

Bob from outside of Detroit said...

Glenn Beck is a true Patriot. I wish I could be there!

edutcher said...

OT: Freeman, I hope the medical problem (it's your dad, I believe) can have a good outcome.

New "Hussein" Ham said...

"Practically speaking, assembling in our nation's capitol is a privilege, not a right. The rally will go ahead only with the consent of the leaders of our regime. Right now that consent is being granted. But it can be taken away at any moment."

It only seems that way.

In reality, Obama's power is what can be taken away in a single moment. The moment he start's believing what you wrote is the moment he will no longer be our President.

traditionalguy said...

That was wonderfully elliptical argumentation.

Omaha1 said...

When I heard the date, 8/28, the first thing I thought of was Romans 8:28, "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose."

I don't listen to Beck enough to know if that is in any way related to the purpose of the rally, it's just what I thought of, a Christian "dog-whistle" maybe.

Peter Friedman said...

Professor -- admitting you haven't been following the affair and don't know what Beck could be doing to be distorting King's message, you might start with Back's on-air claim that he “wouldn’t be surprised if in our lifetime dogs and fire hoses are released or opened on us. I wouldn’t be surprised if a few of us get a billy club to the head. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of us go to jail — just like Martin Luther King did — on trumped-up charges. Tough times are coming.”

I'm no fan of Sharpton's, but it demonstrates an obscene ignorance of American history to suggest he's the leader of a movement as oppressed as were African-Americans at the time of the Civil Rights Movement.

Scott said...

"They don't have a de facto right to rally. Practically speaking, assembling in our nation's capitol is a privilege, not a right."

This was posted by "Dead Julius," and it is completely false.

And anyone who knows anything knows it's false.

I'm just sick of trolls.

HDHouse said...

I suppose this harkens back to your "tit for tat" thread of yesterday in some connected way.

Paco Wové said...

Figures the Grauniad would go to Rev. Al as some kind of authoritative spokesperson.

HDHouse said...

Scott said...
"They don't have a de facto right to rally. Practically speaking, assembling in our nation's capitol is a privilege, not a right."
And anyone who knows anything knows it's false."

Hi Scott. Actually it is completely correct. One must obtain permission and get a permit. Permits, particularly those involving federal monument land and buildings are extended. It is, of course, your right to apply for a permit. It is a privilege to be granted one....lol speaking of Trolls...

Michael said...

I think Beck is a canny huckster, but there's no better argument for his rally than the fact that King's legacy is being defined by another, considerably more odious huckster. I'd stick anybody up there to pry Sharpton's reptilian claws off King's words and life.

AllenS said...

Cardinals manager Tony La Russa and slugger Albert Pujols plan to attend a rally hosted by conservative pundit Glenn Beck on Saturday, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports.

WV: gater

rdkraus said...

Beck is half a wack job. The other half is good common sense and insightful commentary. Anyone who gets F. Hayak back on the best seller list can't be all bad.

I'd like to see what he and others at the rally talk about before I condemn it or praise it. One thing it won't be (not from Beck) is any kind of "hate rally." He's not likely to be insulting MLK either.

AllenS said...

If you're looking for hate, check out Sharpton's counter protest.

Joe said...

Dead Julius was being "Ironic" or "Sarcastic" here I believe people...I can't discern the difference between the two.

Joe said...

I hate when people say "Dr. King would roll over in his grave when 'X' occurs."

It is impossible to know what Dr, King would think of today....for all his trollness Tidy has one point correct.

By the end Dr. King had been influenced by Communists, and his own reflection, into supporting "Social Justice."

Dr. King might, today, be just as big a Progressive Democrat as Al Sharpton...don't fool yourself.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

He's not likely to be insulting MLK either.

Don't you realize that Beck's mere existence insults MLK! (at least in the eyes of Al Sharpton)

miller said...

Friedman: "I'm no fan of Sharpton's, but it demonstrates an obscene ignorance of American history to suggest he's the leader of a movement as oppressed as were African-Americans at the time of the Civil Rights Movement. 8/28/10 6:47 AM"

I'm not going to go so far as to say "obscene." But bizarrely uncomprehending of what it means to be black in America.

There is a chasm of misunderstanding and incomprehension on how offensive it is to compare getting pushback in the political arena (Beck et al.) to being de jure and de facto invisible citizens (the African-American experience for 400 years).

I know Beck is exercising his right of free speech & assembly, and more power to that.

It's just incredible bad taste, shows incredible ignorance, is incredibly hurtful to a large class of people, and is needlessly provocative on the wrong issues.

At some point conservatives will see blacks as people and will understand how ignorant and unhearing they've been.

This rally is not that point.

Joe said...

Miller, you realize NO LIVING AMERICAN HAS BEEN A SLAVE, OR KNOWS SOMEONE WHO WAS A SLAVE, right?

And that a plurality or majority of Blacks, today, have no memory of Jim Crow, right?

Our POTUS and FLOTUS, for example...what do they remember of Jim Crow?

Blacks, today, are hardly oppressed...It's time to put down the victim card, and the talk about slavery, and the effects of slavery/discrimination and move on.

Joe said...


There is a chasm of misunderstanding and incomprehension on how offensive it is to compare getting pushback in the political arena (Beck et al.) to being de jure and de facto invisible citizens (the African-American experience for 400 years).


No Miller, only 300 years, and now NO BLACK can claim they invisible citizens, can they? Put down the victim Kool-Aid or its associated White Guilt Gatorade.

Quaestor said...

Palladian wrote: "Distorting black people is racist."

Is distorting white people racist? And if not, is distortion of black people committed by a black person not racist because one must be a of contrasting color to act, speak or write in a racist manner?

Does racist distortion only occur when in the presence of a special catalyst (ie Glenn Beck), or does it occur only when observed by a special observer (ie Sharpton)?

Lemma: X indicts Y. Such indictment is racist if and only if X and Y have non-identical color. Except when X is Sharpton and Y is any non-Sharpton, unless the negritude of the non-Sharpton is greater than zero.

Premise: X praises Y. Such praise is non-racist if and only if the negritude of X equals or exceeds the negritude of Sharpton (Sn,the Sharpton negritude criticalicality threshold factor)

Damn. What this country needs is a theory of political chromodynamics which doesn't cause brain injury.

Paco Wové said...

At some point liberals will see blacks as people, and not walking symbols of America's original sin.

Freeman Hunt said...

There is a chasm of misunderstanding and incomprehension on how offensive it is to compare getting pushback in the political arena (Beck et al.) to being de jure and de facto invisible citizens (the African-American experience for 400 years).

Good thing that no one has done that.

AllenS said...

That will never happen, Paco.

HDHouse said...

linfante terrible - glenn beck

Joe said...

So as usual HDHouse, has nothing substantive to say...

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Yeah yeah yeah Blah blah blah.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

At some point liberals will see blacks as people, and not walking symbols of America's original sin.

At some point conservatives will appeal to white votes with something other than fearmongering.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Joe demonstrates the commonest fallacy here: Legislative change as social change.

The liberals just need to understand that in 1965 everything about race relations in society changed, just like that.

The left need to wake up and accept this conservative theory of changing society by legislative fiat. Society does not exist except in the form that the legislature decrees it must.

Y'all got that?

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

What Peter Friedman said at 6:47.

Get over yourselves already.

rdkraus said...

Miller

"It's just incredible bad taste, shows incredible ignorance, is incredibly hurtful to a large class of people, and is needlessly provocative on the wrong issues."

It is now bad taste for a white person to talk or hold a rally on the same date a black person talked or held a rally.

It is ignorant of a white person to speak on a day when MLK spoke. Regardless of what he might say, since we don't know what he might say, since he hasn't said it yet.

It is hurtful to black people if white people speak.

It is provacative for white people to speak about [some issues we'll find out about later when they speak] on the same day that black people once spoke.

I'm feeling a shouting thomas moment coming on here.

wv: phonest - yes, this is the phonest outrage I've seen since ---yesterday.

GMay said...

Ritmo said: "At some point conservatives will appeal to white votes with something other than fearmongering."

At some point Ritmo will actually back up one of his sphincter-generated assertions.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Re: Peter Friedman, Miller, Ritmo:

The Beck quote that Peter expressed concern about was:

, you might start with Back's on-air claim that he “wouldn’t be surprised if in our lifetime dogs and fire hoses are released or opened on us. I wouldn’t be surprised if a few of us get a billy club to the head. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of us go to jail — just like Martin Luther King did — on trumped-up charges. Tough times are coming.”

Peter's concern, that Miller and Ritmo apparently echo, is that Beck "suggest[s] he's the leader of a movement as oppressed as were African-Americans at the time of the Civil Rights Movement."

Now, ya'll do understand the difference between the present tense and a prediction of what could possibly happen in the future, right? Beck, in the very statement you quoted, didn't say that he is anything, or that any movement is like the civil rights movement, only that it could be in the future.

You may diagree with him and claim that his prediction (which he said is only a possibilty, not a sure thing) is impossible, and I'll hear you out on that, but don't lie about the very quote that you are using to gin up your false outrage.

- Lyssa

Pogo said...

Sharpton wants us to quit congregating in front of his carnival booth on the Midway. The customers at Beck's booth are spilling over into his spot, and even copying his revivalist methods, the cheats.

Sharpton wants to remind the rubes that, as Palladian has said, we're merely fungible sources of government revenue. So shut up and get back to work so you can pay what you owe to Uncle Sam, or hewill call you racist and homophobe and islamophobe and haters of the poor.

Alan Simpson had the metaphor all wrong. It's one enormous government pig -fully grown and grotesquely huge- suckling from a sickly and thin American public, and the pig is bitching at us to flow faster you goddamned ungrateful swine.

Quaestor said...

Joe wrote: "Dead Julius was being 'Ironic' or 'Sarcastic' here I believe people...I can't discern the difference between the two."

Who was that undead character on Lexx who constantly making irony remarks about the dead, eg "the dead are not sarcastic"?

roesch-voltaire said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
kimsch said...

The Restoring Honor rally is being broadcast by C-Span 1.

wv: skerbe

Pogo said...

Sharpton is merely trying to enforce Newspeak, and accusing Beck and attendees of thoughtcrime.


"By 2050—earlier, probably—all real knowledge of Oldspeak will have disappeared. The whole literature of the past will have been destroyed. Chaucer, Shakespeare, Milton, Byron—they'll exist only in Newspeak versions, not merely changed into something different, but actually contradictory of what they used to be. Even the literature of the Party will change. Even the slogans will change. How could you have a slogan like "freedom is slavery" when the concept of freedom has been abolished? The whole climate of thought will be different. In fact there will be no thought, as we understand it now. Orthodoxy means not thinking—not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness."

Quaestor said...

HDHouse is insanely jealous of anyone who could be characterized by the French term enfant (which he characteristically misspells, btw)

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Oh that's one clever trick Beck's got up his sleeve, Lyssa! Predicting the possibility of something rather than its inevitability.

It almost makes me find him credible. Almost. Not quite but just about.

That disclaimer, big enough to drive a Mack truck through, that the scenarios he, er, entertains are not set in stone... Well, I would have read the fine print if my field of vision weren't so obscured by the Nuhrenburg footage so prominently displays across the near entirety of my (computer) screen.

Beck is to subtlety and plausible speculation what Chicken Little was to the apocalypse.

And good on the false outrage, stuff - given how much real outrage he's out to gin up on the part of the righties and unaffiliated nutcases who actually bother to give him any credence whatsoever.

HDHouse said...

Joe said...
So as usual HDHouse, has nothing substantive to say..."

sure i do Joe. Glenn Beck is

1. insane
2. inane
3. plays to your fears
4. capitalizes on your ignorance
5. is a blight on America

did i leave out son of a bitch freak?

over to you joe.

linfante terrible - glenn beck

lyssalovelyredhead said...

r-v . . .explain why Beck disingenuously claimed he had no idea that Aug 28 was the date of the MLK speech

Tell me honestly, before this controversy arose, did you hear 8/28, and immediently identify it as the date of that speech? If someone had asked you when it was, would you have even been able to tell them with certaintly which month the speech occurred in?

I sure couldn't have. The speech meant something; the date, not so much, except to drum up false outrage.

MayBee said...

I guess comment like Who cares about MLK now, save for the obnoxious uppity black guy on a soapbox?, explain why Beck disingenuously claimed he had no idea that Aug 28 was the date of the MLK speech.
==========

How does one person's outrageous comment on a blog explain Beck's thinking? Dead Julius was not speaking for Beck.

Pogo said...

@Ritmo: ...the Nuhrenburg footage..."

The left, the very originators of fascism, love to use the threat of fascism on the right to enforce American state fascism.

But now that we have Gummint Motors and that the gummint now controls 1/6th of the economy (healthcare) and so minutely regulates what we drive and where we can walk and (according to Sharpton) when we can rally and where, their Nazi scare words ring increasingly hollow.

So I say this lovingly:
Shut the hell up.

roesch-voltaire said...

I guess comments like "Who cares about MLK now, save for the obnoxious uppity black guy on a soapbox?, explain why Beck disingenuously claimed he had no idea that Aug 28 was the date of the MLK speech. And I guess by extension of this belief it is those uppity blacks in the White house that we need to take back our freedom from. Look Beck has every right to promote his I Have A Scheme and sell some more over-priced gold while wrapping it in faux patriotism, but the question I have a right to ask is-- is it wise?

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Ritmo: Oh that's one clever trick Beck's got up his sleeve, Lyssa! Predicting the possibility of something rather than its inevitability.

I'm sorry, how does I " “wouldn’t be surprised if in our lifetime" something happens translate to anything but a prediction of what is possible, but not assured? Please.

Freeman Hunt said...

I think I was right about it being more religious revival than political rally.

MayBee said...

Comments are disappearing again. At least mine are.

Freeman Hunt said...

MayBee, your comments haven't been disappearing for me.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

As I said, all that Nuremnberg footage Beck flashes across the screen, the hysterical voice, the faked tears - it all makes me think what a subtle and plausible speculator he is.

Maybe I should ask him when he "might have" stopped beating his wife.

The country sees right through his insane bullshit. I understand that cons love nothing as much as the old media that the rest of the country has moved on from (first radio, now the boob tube), but this is the internet age now, dear. The propagandistic tricks of the teevee are pretty clear, well known, and apparently proudly appropriated by a right-wing sympathetic loon to whom ignorant manipulation distortion come as naturally as do eating, drinking and sleeping.

The fine print doesn't matter when the actual purpose of his "broadcasts" are quite clear. Feel happily absolved about his legalistic finagling all you want. Enough people know what he's about.

roesch-voltaire said...

I think the blog sentiments sum up the lack of attention many whites pay to MLK as reflected in Becks' denial of knowledge about the date, which is ironic given that speech is still taught in most high schools.

Quaestor said...

roesch-voltaire wrote: I guess comment like Who cares about MLK now, save for the obnoxious uppity black guy on a soapbox?, explain why Beck disingenuously claimed he had no idea that Aug 28 was the date of the MLK speech.

I have only ever seen b&w footage of that speech (and only tiny snippets, at that). But I've seen that footage time and again, about as often as I've seen Apollo 11 material. Enough to know that it's IMPORTANT, ie important to the powers and authorities who want me to see it as important (which doesn't mean that it is necessarily unimportant) However, until today I have been unaware of the date of the "I Have a Dream Speech". I knew it was in the early to middle 60s, but I assumed it was in the early autumn or spring because the weather seemed overcast and MKL was wearing a suit, as in not hot weather.

Okay, roesch-voltaire, without looking it up give us the date of the Gettysburg Address...

MayBee said...

Thanks, Freeman. Something happened with the post lyssa and I quoted. It now somehow comes after our comments quoting it. Weird.

Maguro said...

Clearly, Beck should have held his rally in Crown Heights, Brooklyn on 19 August.

Deb said...

Fen: Ha. Whats the next act? A Bill Clinton seminar on sexual predation in the workplace?

who would know better?

MayBee said...

I think the blog sentiments sum up the lack of attention many whites pay to MLK as reflected

You are conflating the importance of the man and his message with the importance of the date.
The date isn't someone we, as a nation, commemorate often. It certainly isn't something we've been holding sacrosanct.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

MLK's message was so important for Beck to appropriate as his own that the date of when it was originally delivered didn't even matter and wasn't worth knowing.

That says it all, folks. The guy is an exercise in self-parody. He's almost proud of how unseriously he takes himself.

Freeman Hunt said...

Oh, please. The speech is taught, but that doesn't mean people are generally aware of the date. I seriously doubt that you knew the date yourself prior to this ginned up controversy.

MLK Day is the third Monday of January. That is the day that is set apart.

Maguro said...

What date did MLK write his famous Letter From a Birmingham Jail? Better not let the wingnuts hold any rallies that day, either, the sacred memory of Dr. King will be tarnished!

Deb said...

Thanks for the link, Freeman.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

This address might as well be delivered by Pee Wee Herman.

Glenn Beck is a joke. Only in the minds of the right can an obvious joke of a person deliver a serious message.

Pogo said...

@Ritmo: "As I said, all that Nuremnberg footage..."

The fascists have a keen eye for nascent fascism and encroachments on their power.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ritmo Brasileiro said...

The speech is taught, but that doesn't mean people are generally aware of the date.

Any other historical fine details regarding the speech that also don't matter now?

I get it. I see your point. History is to be abused in whatever fashion the propagandist sees fit. Thanks for reminding me.

Go Glenn! The way you stand up despite your oppression inspires me.

Quaestor said...

"Glenn Beck is a joke. Only in the minds of the right can an obvious joke of a person deliver a serious message."

Ritmo struggles on...

wv: experge -- Expurge when written by HDHouse

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I really really hope that the left and the blacks that have been egged on by the race hucksters do NOT cause any violence.

People are at a tipping point right now and there are crazies on the right that I'm very much afraid will retaliate. If so, it will not be pretty and it will not go away.

It is almost as if the people attending the Beck rally are going as lambs to slaughter, just as did blacks in the peaceful civil rights rallies of Martin Luther King.

The tables have turned; and now the violence and discrimination is from the left and from blacks who hold 'beat whitey' nights with no consequences to themselves.

I pray (literally) that nothing bad will happen tomorrow.

If anything does, I blame Obama for purposely stirring up racial divisions and the race hucksters like Sharpton and more.....I blame America for allowing people to be a protected "victim" class long after there is any need for any such protection.

Instead of protecting the victim, we have created a monster.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

The left, the very originators of fascism

Right, Pogo. The bundles of sticks strung together in ancient Roman sculptures originated with the modern(?), American(?), political left. Cincinnatus was a time traveler.

Good God. You're as ignorant as Beck.

kimsch said...

There were only so many Saturdays in August in 2010. Today is the last of them. It so happens that today is also the 47th anniversary of Dr. King's "I Have a Dream" speech.

Would that more people would pay attention to the words of that speech.

wv: waksent

Quaestor said...

My Gettyburg Address challenge was issued to roesch-voltaire at 9:28 CDT. It's now 9:45 or thereabouts. Plenty of time has elasped, so if he responds we can assume he had to look it up.

roesch-voltaire's MLK date agrument is now offically bullshit.

MayBee said...

The controversy isn't really about MLKjr at all, but about Barack Obama. Nothing is supposed to get in the way of our memories of him on the steps of the Lincoln memorial just days before his inauguration, when we loved him so. He was MLKjr's dream and the reincarnation of Lincoln, all in one unifying figure.

At least Beck doesn't have access to the Lincoln china to serve brunch on later.

Pogo said...

In which Ritmo, embarrassed by the true past of the global left, tries desperately to ignore the actual origins of fascism-communism-socialism, and especially to cleave off the one they are most embarrassed by.

Strangely, Ritmo picks the single form of collectivist statism that killed the fewest of its own citizens.

Pogo said...

Ritmo's view of Nazi's is pikers.

Freeman Hunt said...

History is to be abused in whatever fashion the propagandist sees fit. Thanks for reminding me.

LOL Yes, that seems to be the problem here. Are you commenting on my behalf?

Quaestor said...

Ritmo Brazileiro wrote: "Right, Pogo. The bundles of sticks strung together in ancient Roman sculptures originated with the modern(?), American(?), political left. Cincinnatus was a time traveler.

That is the stupidest confusion of Roman symbolism, Roman folklore and 20th century totalitarian politics I've ever witnessed. But I'll assume your reply will plumb new depths of undistributed middle.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

The true origins of the "global left" is ancient Rome, in Pogo's book. Which makes the founders "fascists".

Stick to medicine, Pogo. Che. Zawahiri. Doctors don't seem to get the political part down all that well. Pogo. Che. Zawahiri. Their minds just must not be capable of the transition.

Yes, that seems to be the problem here. Are you commenting on my behalf?

Which "behalf" is that? I wasn't aware you thought Beck's ignorance and propaganda were suddenly worthy of criticism.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

That is the stupidest confusion of Roman symbolism, Roman folklore and 20th century totalitarian politics I've ever witnessed. But I'll assume your reply will plumb new depths of undistributed middle.

You mean the one where Pogo/Che/Zawahiri reinvents the left as "the very originators of fascism"?

Good to see we agree.

Freeman Hunt said...

Ritmo:

It is you and others like you who are abusing history for propaganda in this.

garage mahal said...

If anything does, I blame Obama for purposely stirring up racial divisions and the race hucksters

Of course.

Pogo said...

"The true origins of the "global left" is ancient Rome, in Pogo's book."

Not at all.
Your fathers were early Plato, Rousseau, and Marx.
And teenage angst unmatured.
And unicorns.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

It is you and others like you...

Is it? With such an Old Testament-like proclamation I might actually be too intimidated to question the abundant ignorance of Glenn Beck and the Pogo.

kimsch said...

crowd goes wild at mention of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. - yeah, bunch of racists...

wv: lasin

Pogo said...

In which Ritmo runs out material earlier than usual.

We can now expect text dumps numbering into the thousands of words, until long past anyone still reading them, at which he declares some sort of personal victory.

For last post, I think.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Listening to the John Bircher, Pogo, who appropriates an icon of Walt Kelly, nonetheless, spew his propaganda is like listening to other revolutionary physicians, such as Che Guevara and Ayman al Zawahiri, who nothing of a sane understanding of politics.

I can call him names just as easily as he can.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Or is it New Testament?

It is you... so sayeth the Lord.

Otherwise known as the 3rd-grader's defense.

I know you are but what am I?

Peano said...

I have a dream: Someday, Al Sharpton will be judged by the content of his character.

Pogo said...

"I can call him names just as easily as he can."
Hilarious.
It's your primary skill, of course.
You pound the table much better than you falsify history.

GMay said...

I like the new Ritmo: spouting off his substance-free opinion as accepted fact in 1/10th the words.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Freeman, serious question:

Do you actually believe that serious historians would look favorably upon Glenn Beck's interpretation of what MLK had to say?

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

You pound the table much better than you falsify history.

You don't even have the first clue as to what history even is, O President of the Jack Acid Society.

You think in caricature.

Freeman Hunt said...

Glenn Beck isn't doing an interpretation of King's words. Beck's thing is its own thing. The two line up insomuch as they support individual liberty and strong personal character.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

The two line up insomuch as they support individual liberty and strong personal character.

With a Venn diagram whose intersection is that broad, I suppose no other details matter then.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

And I guess I missed the implication of this:

Glenn Beck isn't doing an interpretation of King's words.

Thanks for the admission.

It shouldn't be too much a leap to therefore see why Glenn Beck's invocation of King when convenient is a misappropriation of U.S. history.

Quaestor said...

Fascism was originated by Benito Mussolini, who was a man of the Left and a life-long socialist. Today's Left will deny it and the minions of MiniTrue have been busily expunging the records since 1941 at least.

However, rail on as you may, Italian Fascism was the child of socialism. It adopted the command model without ownership of the means of production, which essentially created a socialist state with a much reduced bureaucracy and a greater concentration of power at the top. It also allowed Mussolini to reject one fundamental demand of the Italian socialists and thereby put at ease the titled aristocracy, specifically the overthrow of the House of Savoy.

Germany's NSDAP adopted the Fascist economic model, a move which benefited many parties: Hitler by freeing him of the onerous task of cooking up an economic policy of his own, the German industrialists by leaving them nominally in control of their own property and having their positions guaranteed by state authority (sound familiar?), the socialist for giving them a terminology which would allow them to conveniently ignore the socialist part of National Socialism and a stick with which to flog anyone of their choosing for any reason, and the Left in general by providing a bête noire trot out whenever they have no logically sound arguments to make, which is most of the time.

Pogo said...

"O President of the Jack Acid Society. "

Hey, a Walt Kelly fan.
That makes you and me that get the reference.
But well played, sir.

It's pointless arguing about the interpretation of history by claiming that one person is 'ignorant' of it merely because they disagree with your conclusion. I can cite a dozen references explaining the collectivist origins of fascism, but you'll not read them or be convinced by them, so why bother?

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

I don't have a problem with Beck re-interpreting (to put it charitably) King. He should just be honest about the meaning of the original history and distinguish that from how he'd like to re-interpret it and why.

It would make him less credible, but more honest and respectable, ironically enough.

Freeman Hunt said...

Ritmo, your assertion is that you can't refer to historic figures, and their ideals unless your event is supposed to be a direct interpretation of an event led by one of those figures? That's bizarre.

Your comments read as though you don't know what Beck's event is. Are you watching it? It's not, and was never intended to be, a commemoration of the "I Have a Dream" speech.

It appears to be a religious revival. That's also what Beck had indicated it would be.

Trooper York said...

Maybe they can make the anniversary of the speech a national holiday.

I could use a nice holiday at the end of August.

Freeman Hunt said...

Ritmo, why do you think that Beck hasn't talked about how his politics differ from King's? He has.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Do you actually believe that serious historians would look favorably upon Glenn Beck's interpretation of what MLK had to say?

What exactly IS Beck's interpretation?

What is YOURS?

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

I can cite a dozen references explaining the collectivist origins of fascism, but you'll not read them or be convinced by them, so why bother?

Exactly so. If you're just as unwilling to accept the far-right influences and general designation of fascism as it is understood, why go on about what it took from or has in common with the left? It makes me wonder for whose benefit you'd be making the argument.

kimsch said...

They won't do that Trooper. Next weekend is the Labor Day Weekend. Can't have two holidays thisclose unless they are Christmas and New Year's.

wv: deede

AlphaLiberal said...

Why do Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin say America lost her honor?

When was this honor supposedly lost?

This rally is pretty damn offensive. A 99.9% white people rally on the anniversary and location of MLK's March on Washington.

It's pretty blatant politics of racial resentment, used to pump up the conservative base for November elections.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Ritmo, your assertion is that you can't refer to historic figures, and their ideals unless your event is supposed to be a direct interpretation of an event led by one of those figures? That's bizarre.

That's also not what I'm saying.

I'm saying that if you're going to invoke historic figures to the point of appropriating them, you need to be honest about what their historic significance is. You have to stop smudging the distinctions between why they were significant and how you want to use them.

Your comments read as though you don't know what Beck's event is. Are you watching it? It's not, and was never intended to be, a commemoration of the "I Have a Dream" speech.

I know that. Come on.

It appears to be a religious revival. That's also what Beck had indicated it would be.

There are many common threads in history. MLK was a preacher and used religious rhetoric far more effectively than a whole host of 20th century figures. We'll see if Beck has those chops or if he simply envies them enough to want to emulate how they were employed.

Pogo said...

"the far-right influences and general designation of fascism as it is understood"

That's an assertion, not a fact, except if you meant 'as it is understood' by Ritmo alone.

garage mahal said...

Hitler LOVED granola, and the left, well, you know. Read Jonah Goldberg's book to find out more about these associations between fascism and liberals.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Scholars generally consider fascism to be on the far right of the conventional left-right political spectrum.

Lyons, Matthew N.. "What is Fascism? Some General Ideological Features". PublicEye.org. Political Research Associates. Retrieved 2009-10-27.
^ a b Griffin, Roger: "The Palingenetic Core of Fascism", Che cos'è il fascismo? Interpretazioni e prospettive di ricerche, Ideazione editrice, Rome, 2003 AH.Brookes.ac.uk
^ a b Stackleberg, Rodney Hitler's Germany, Routeledge, 1999, p. 3
^ a b Eatwell, Roger: "A 'Spectral-Syncretic Approach to Fascism', The Fascism Reader, Routledge, 2003 pp 71–80 Books.google.com
^ a b Lipset, Seymour: "Fascism as Extremism of the Middle Class", The Fascism Reader, Routledge, 2003, pp. 112–116
^ Benito Mussolini's Doctrine of Fascism regards fascism as right-wing and collectivist, but it also declares that fascism is sympathetic to ameliorating the conditions that brought about the rise of left-wing political movements, such as class conflict socialism and liberal democracy, while simultaneously opposing the egalitarianism associated with the left. "We are free to believe that this is the century of authority, a century tending to the 'right', a Fascist century." ... "We are free to believe that this is the 'collective' century, and thus the century of the state. It is eminently reasonable for a new doctrine to make use of still-vital elements from other doctrines," ... "Fascism is totalitarian, and the Fascist State—a synthesis and a unit inclusive of all values—interprets, develops, and potentiates the whole life of a people." (p. 14) "The Fascist negation of socialism, democracy, liberalism, should not, however, be interpreted as implying a desire to drive the world backwards to positions occupied prior to 1789, a year commonly referred to as that which opened the demo-liberal century. History does not travel backwards. The Fascist doctrine has not taken De Maistre as its prophet. Monarchical absolutism is of the past, and so is ecclesiolatry. Dead and done for are feudal privileges and the division of society into closed, uncommunicating castes. Neither has the Fascist conception of authority anything in common with that of a police ridden State." ... "Fascism is therefore opposed to Socialism to which unity within the State (which amalgamates classes into a single economic and ethical reality) is unknown, and which sees in history nothing but the class struggle. Fascism is likewise opposed to trade unionism as a class weapon. But when brought within the orbit of the State, Fascism recognises the real needs which gave rise to socialism and trade-unionism, giving them due weight in the guild or corporative system in which divergent interests are coordinated and harmonised in the unity of the State." (p.15) "In rejecting democracy Fascism rejects the absurd conventional lie of political equalitarianism, the habit of collective irresponsibility, the myth of felicity and indefinite progress." ... "Fascism denies that numbers, as such, can be the determining factor in human society; it denies the right of numbers to govern by means of periodical consultations; it asserts the irremediable and fertile and beneficent inequality of men who cannot be leveled by any such mechanical and extrinsic device as universal suffrage." Doctrine of Fascism.

Trooper York said...

kimsch said...
They won't do that Trooper. Next weekend is the Labor Day Weekend. Can't have two holidays thisclose unless they are Christmas and New Year's.

That's just not right. I think they should celebrate all the other silly holiday's on one day. You know Washington and Lincoln and Columbus and St Patrick and Thanksgiving and Arbor Day and Groundhog day should all be on the same day.

That way we can have a holiday dedicated to Martin Lurhter King every month of the year.

Anything less is just racist.

What's the matter with you typical white people?

AlphaLiberal said...

To Ritmo's point, Beck has frequently referenced Dr King. I'm watching rally coverage where Beck is going on and on about King.

Beck claims he and his ilk are the only true heirs to Dr King. He has a King family member speaking.

So, he is very much distorting the memory of Dr King's work. For example, Dr King was a social justice reformer. Beck freaks out at the idea of social justice and says that's wrong.

Beck is a hustler and fraud.

Quaestor said...

If there's one thing AlphaLiberal is a first water authority on it's fraud.

Freeman Hunt said...

Alpha, they just started going on and on about King because they're introducing Alveda King. Of course they're highlighting where they agree with King. Would you rather, on the anniversary of the speech and at its location, they parsed all of his words, going through where they agreed with him and where they disagreed? I think such an event is unlikely.

AlphaLiberal said...

Fascism is very clearly a right wing philosophy. It aligns the national (and nationalistic) government with corporate power.

Think lefties hang out with corporate executive much? Like, say, while organizing workers to agitate for better wages and working conditions?

No, that's ridiculous. Fascism is a right wing ideology.

Freeman Hunt said...

Think lefties hang out with corporate executive much?

Yes. See campaign contributions to Obama. See the bailouts. See the unions.

It's all Statism, Alpha. Fascism, socialism, communism, the lot of it. It's about other people determining what's best at the loss of individual liberty.

Flexo said...

Well, if conservativism were pro-government, that statement might make a tiny bit of sense, but conservatives are not pro-government, much less pro-activist government. So saying such things really does nothing more than prove you to be a know-nothing idiot.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

To get back to the original point of the post, the only thing I wish to say about King and Beck's speech is that this is a reaction to the former in the same way that people went on and on about the significance of Obama's election.

The problem is, I daresay the significance of that moment has past. Not many people care any more about the election of a historically oppressed minority to the highest office in the land in America, nor do they need to at this point. Now that's all just for the historians to decide the significance of it. The many issues Obama or any American president at this point have to be concerned with are the real issue, and rightly so.

That said, I think Beck's invocation of King and fixation with Obama's person as a political leader do reflect the unease that the far-right had with Obama's popularity originally. I think this event he's holding today reflects his need to react to that, the idea of Obama as a political movement, because he intends to meet it with a political movement of his own.

The only problem is, at this point we should really be focusing on policies, rather than political movements - whether on the left, right or whether they were somehow original and authentic or just reactions to them.

Flexo said...

It adopted the command model without ownership of the means of production

Sounds kind of like creating "universal healthcare" by simply making it illegal to not buy health insurance.

Cedarford said...

Joe - "It is impossible to know what Dr, King would think of today....for all his trollness Tidy has one point correct.

By the end Dr. King had been influenced by Communists, and his own reflection, into supporting "Social Justice."
Dr. King might, today, be just as big a Progressive Democrat as Al Sharpton...don't fool yourself."

---------------------
MLK, blessed be his name, may be one of those figures vastly overrated by Martyrdom. It took 40 years for the books to finally start being straightened out on JFK and Camelot....and a line of idiot Presidents culminating in the present one to make people reflect back - "At least Eisenhower, LBJ, Nixon, Reagan, Bush Sr., and Clinton knew what they were doing, most the time"!

King was not "the leader" of the Civil Rights movement. He was one of the leaders. He had is moments, but so did others involved.
What most people avoided following his assassination is doing biography instead of hagiography. His involvement with communists was minimized. His domestic violence minimized. His philandering and whore-beating minimized. His plagarism only discussed in a way that casts it as a "yes, but..." As in "Yes Dr King may have been overly inspired by other peoples work and not been as careful with attribution as he should have been for his PhD and the MLK Family copywrited speeches and writings they have made millions off of...but it shouldn't detract from his Greatness". Complaints of other civil rights leaders that King diverted money from SLCC funds for whores and carousing and favoring "his people" over Abernathy's - glossed over..

I think there is more good than bad in the guy, and he is a positive figure in history, but there is something profoundly wrong in the present situation.
What other figure has two filing cabinets full of FBI surveillance documents under Fed Court ordered lock and key? What figure that is the only American awarded a national holiday in his name, who school children and ignorant conservatives are trained to parrot his remarks?
Which other American with MLK's mixed "blessings" is given a national monument (not to mention the biggest and most lavish one?) and all the Federally funded "side-monuments"?

Trooper York said...

Shame on you Cedarford.

Martin Luther King is the most important American in the histoy of the United States. No one compares to him. Washington, Jefferson and Lincoln are a mere bag of shells. It is totally racist of you to talk like that!

By the way, next Thursday is the anniversay of the first time he went potty by himself. I think that calls for a day of national remembrance at the very least.

We can cancel Veterans Day. Who cares about those guys anyway.

AlphaLiberal said...

Freeman:

"Yes. See campaign contributions to Obama. See the bailouts. See the unions. "

I hope you're joking!

What part of the (supposed) Democratic agenda do corporate executives support?

A) Improved environmental regulation?
B) Stronger financial regulation?
C) Restoring the power of workers to bargain collectively?

Nonsense. Most, not all, business leaders want cheap labor, low benefits, no regulation. It's always been thus.

The very wealthy Home Depot founder castigated and executives who are not contributing to the Republicans Party and related corporate campaign funds:

"If a retailer has not gotten involved with this, if he has not spent money on this election, if he has not sent money to Norm Coleman and these other guys," Mr. Marcus said, apparently referring to Republican senators facing tough re-election fights, then those retailers "should be shot; should be thrown out of their goddamn jobs."

Source: Wall Street Journal

Touche.

AlphaLiberal said...

Interesting news report: Behind the scenes we have "Americans for Prosperity" and FreedomWorks, both leading Tea Party astroturf outfits, funded by corporations (allies of the state under fascism).

Well, they both held very political conferences yesterday to build for this very political event.

Apparently, no-one can answer these questions:

Why do Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin say America lost her honor?

When was this honor supposedly lost?

Freeman Hunt said...

Alpha, so you're not going to look at contributions to Democrats or to bailouts or to unions?

They're about control, Alpha. Choosing winners and losers.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

I think that's why the right feels neutralized. Obama's doing for the rich what the right could only dream of doing for the rich - at least in this economic environment.

I have to admire Freeman's willingness to argue for a classless society, though. That's worth something.

garage mahal said...

I had to click on the live feed. I made it 2 mins listening to Beck, didn't know if I wanted to vomit or feel pity for him. Dude is seriously fucked in the head.

GMay said...

Ritmo opined: "I think that's why the right feels neutralized."

Considering you're the only ones thinking this, I'd say this is more sphincter talk.

A shame really, you had one post upthread that was almost substantive. Ah well, baby steps I guess.

AlphaLiberal said...

I feel duty bound to remind folks that Glenn Beck is a sympathizer for white nationalists.

Beck tweeted in signalling a white power group as favorite:
"Embrace White Culture."

The group is "White Nationalist News, Blogs, Music, Forum."

And here he is, holding his white peoples' rally. And helping the Republicans.

GMay said...

BetaLib asked: "Apparently, no-one can answer these questions:

Why do Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin say America lost her honor?

When was this honor supposedly lost?"


I'm not really sure. I don't really think we've lost our honor in the places that count.

Trooper York said...

AlphaLiberal said....
And here he is, holding his white peoples' rally. And helping the Republicans.

WTF!

I didn't know that they only let white people participate. That's terrible. How can they do that?

AlphaLiberal said...

"I made it 2 mins listening to Beck, didn't know if I wanted to vomit or feel pity for him."

He does need help, doesn't he? He's very much like like the character played by Andy Griffin in A Face in a Crowd, Lonesome Rhodes. Great flick.

Except Lonesome Rhodes didn't have Goldline (under investigation).

Beck promotes more white pride groups.

Trooper York said...

And Republicans.

Imagine helping Republicans.

Those bastards.

I thought Obama made them against the law. Wasn't that part of the health care bill like the fact you have to send a 1099 to anyone you pay more than five dollars?

AlphaLiberal said...

"I didn't know that they only let white people participate. "

Who said that?

Dude, you've got some serious racial resentment issues. Good luck with that.

Trooper York said...

How dare those rotten bastards get together on a sunny Saturday morning. They have no right to do that.

There ought to be a law.

AlphaLiberal said...

"Imagine helping Republicans.

Those bastards."

Uh, Beck is claiming the rally is not political.

But, I'm glad we agree it clearly is political.

GMay said...

BetaLib imagined: "Nonsense. Most, not all, business leaders want cheap labor, low benefits, no regulation. It's always been thus."

You have a cite for this? I didn't think so.

"I hope you're joking!"

Unfortunately for you, he's not joking. So are you lying, or do you just not know this stuff? Or do you just suck at googling?

And you dig up one (1) CEO as your example?

Jeeze you suck at this.

AlphaLiberal said...

Uh, York? It's kind of embarrassing to watch you debate yourself like that.

Sure, you have an active imagination, but no-one is saying those things you claim they are saying.

They can have their rally. And we can speak to it. That's America.

Except for the part where this movement is stopping Muslims from the free exercise of their religion around the country. Not American.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Garage: I had to click on the live feed. I made it 2 mins listening to Beck, didn't know if I wanted to vomit or feel pity for him. Dude is seriously fucked in the head.

I'd be interested in hearing a description of what you heard him say and why it made you feel that way. Otherwise, your comment is pretty meaningless.

GMay said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
GMay said...

BetaLib lied...again: "Except for the part where this movement is stopping Muslims from the free exercise of their religion around the country. Not American."

Got a cite for that?

Or is it about time for you to duck the thread? How's your yard looking?

AlphaLiberal said...

GMay, hope you are having a wonderful day.

Hope your reading comprehension improves. The Home Depot founder spoke in support of a pro-Republican business campaign fund. Not one guy.

I also mentioned the corporate-, and billionaire-funded Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks.

Anyone who has not been brain dead in America knows that the Chamber of Commerce at all levels is very conservative and very pro-Republican. Against higher wage legislation and all things I listed.

Corporate money is swelling Republican-supporting business campaign war chests. $400 million. Listed at the link.

But, you GMay, are certain that corporations are backing Democrats!!

lyssalovelyredhead said...

With the caveat that there is no point in arguing with Alpha, who consistently either ducks and covers or lies, but for the rest of you:

AL said: What part of the (supposed) Democratic agenda do corporate executives support?

A) Improved environmental regulation?
B) Stronger financial regulation?
C) Restoring the power of workers to bargain collectively?


I'd just like to point out that *big* corporations absolutely love these sorts of regulations. They have far more resources to handle them than their smaller competitors; therefore, they gain more market power with very little (comparative) loss.

Alternatively, did AL just brag on the ability of the Democratic agenda to hurt businesses (which could otherwise be producing jobs)? Jeeze.

- Lyssa

garage mahal said...

He does need help, doesn't he? He's very much like like the character played by Andy Griffin in A Face in a Crowd, Lonesome Rhodes. Great flick.

I'm thinking a rally led by Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin would be more along the lines of Idiocracy.

President Camacho: Shit. I know shit's bad right now, with all that starving bullshit, and the dust storms, and we are running out of french fries and burrito coverings. But I got a solution.

South Carolina Representative # 1: That's what you said last time, dipshit!

South Carolina Representative # 2: Yeah, I got a solution, you're a dick! South Carolina, what's up!

Trooper York said...

"AlphaLiberal said...
"I didn't know that they only let white people participate. "

Who said that?"

You implied that by trying to pretend that the people in this event are racist whites. It's your same old game.

I mean that is what Al Sharpton and AlphaLiberal are all about.

Playing the race card.

Trooper York said...

AlphaLiberal...
Sure, you have an active imagination, but no-one is saying those things you claim they are saying.

Everyone knows what you are saying Alpha.

You just want the Republicans and conservative to just go away. Even control of both houses of Congress and the Presidency wasn't enough for you.

You only believe in first amendment rights for terrorists and enemies of our country.

Everyone else should just shut up.

Trooper York said...

Personally I think Beck is an moron on par with someone like Larry King or the Sham Wow guy.

But I do enjoy how he gets under the skin of the AlphaLiberal crowd.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

So is Beck repenting for something?

I'm not quite sure I understand this event, except to say that now Lyssa's comments make more sense. Beck is rallying his minions to be redeemed and provoke thoughtful change in themselves, lest the country goes to hell in a handbasket.

I guess that's the significance of the faint disclaimers we debated earlier. We're going to hell and the country will run off a cliff unless Beckians become more thoughtful and decent people.

Well, ok then.

roesch-voltaire said...

Sorry Quaestor I was out at the farmers market and shopping at Sears so I could not respond in the manner you asked for, but it seems Ritmo is doing a nice job of pointing out how propagandist like Beck enjoy distorting history.

GMay said...

Sweet Alpha didn't duck the thread yet! Time for a takedown before he does.

Let's start with reading comprehension! From your source:

"...labor unions spent some $450 million during the 2008 races, orchestrated massive voter outreach, and saw their candidates triumph."


Care to guess which party those candidates belonged to? Your source doesn't jive real well with your earlier questions:

"Think lefties hang out with corporate executive much? Like, say, while organizing workers to agitate for better wages and working conditions?"

Isn't this what Unions do? But wait, didn't you just say about the very thing you're quoting that supposedly proves your weak point:

"The very wealthy Home Depot founder castigated and executives who are not contributing to the Republicans Party and related corporate campaign funds."

But wait BetaBoy, you realize that this is admitting that there are executives that aren't contributing to Republican campaigns right?

Then again, you obviously ignored my HuffPo cite. Odd, since it's a lefty one.

[Side Note]

Here's one for you, about that crazy ReichWingnut Fauxsnooze:

Pushing the Republican agenda!

Whiskey Jim said...

What's the deal with trashing Beck?

Clearly by the Left's own reasoning anyone who disparages him for the location and timing is a bigot.

GMay said...

Shoot, I got distracted, continuing on:

"The Home Depot founder spoke in support of a pro-Republican business campaign fund."

I've looked over the article a couple of times, but I'm not seeing any reference to what you describe here. I see something about a conference call and how Mr. Marcus had taken things upon himself and that he was very pro-Republican, but nothing that refers to what you described.

Did I miss a link, or could you point it out to me? I await your far more vast powers of reading comprehension.

Freeman Hunt said...

Supposedly this is an overhead shot: http://tweetphoto.com/41943651

Don't know the source of that yet though.

AlphaLiberal said...

Wow. From Ben Jealous of the NAACP at the counter-rally:

"Dr King never had to ask his followers to leave hateful signs and guns at home.”

http://twitter.com/ryanjreilly

AlphaLiberal said...

Not exactly a large crowd

Pogo said...

@Ritmo:

Yeah, that quote on the origins of fascism is the usual squirming socialists do in order to effect the kind of historical revisionism that -once again- absolves their murderous selves of all sin.

He writes like you, a sterile meandering obfuscatory bullshit that causes the reader to fall asleep midsentence.

Pretty much standard lefty 1984 memory hole crap.

Flexo said...

Wow. From Ben Jealous of the NAACP at the counter-rally:
"Dr King never had to ask his followers to leave hateful signs and guns at home.”


Actually, if we care about being historically correct --

"In the process of gaining our rightful place we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred. We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence."
--Martin Luther King
August 28, 1963, Wash. D.C.
"I Have A Dream" Speech

El Pollo Real said...

I didn't know you were on Twitter Alpha. What's your handle?

AC245 said...

You can always tell the historically ignorant when they start ranting about "corporatism" and "corporations" in discussions of fascism as if the term refers to the likes of modern-day companies such as Exxon, Microsoft, WalMart, Ford, etc.

It's wince-inducing to read such ignorant drivel. Educate yourselves, idiots.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

The quote I provided was from Roman enthusiast and well-known fascist Benito Mussolini. If you don't like what he said about the right-wing origins of his own politics, take it up with him, idiot.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Speaking of absolution and sin, Glenn Beck is ordering you back into your church, Pogo. Apparently he thinks you have a lot of atoning to do.

MGA said...

Beck's choice of day and place for the rally "is insulting, is what it is," said Marc Morial, president of the National Urban League.

Jaime Contreras, president of SEIU-32BJ, said those gathered at the Mall with Beck "represent angry white people and hate-mongering." He added: "We will not let them stand in the way of the change we voted for!"

"They have a right to rally. But what they don't have the right do is distort what Dr. King's dream was about," the Rev. Al Sharpton declared Friday. He called the tea party assembly an anti-government action and has organized a counter rally also near the site of King's historic speech.

Kinda makes me wonder what they would think of a Mosque being built near ground zero.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

"Fascism is therefore opposed to Socialism to which unity within the State (which amalgamates classes into a single economic and ethical reality) is unknown, and which sees in history nothing but the class struggle. Fascism is likewise opposed to trade unionism as a class weapon."

"In rejecting democracy Fascism rejects the absurd conventional lie of political equalitarianism, the habit of collective irresponsibility, the myth of felicity and indefinite progress."


-- Benito Mussolini, Doctrine of Fascism.

Sounds like something Pogo would write. No wonder the squirmy little squish is getting (always) defensive.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

More golden nuggets from Pogo's politics and writing instructor:

"Fascism [is] the precise negation of that doctrine which formed the basis of the so-called Scientific or Marxian Socialism. (p. 30)

After Socialism, Fascism attacks the whole complex of democratic ideologies and rejects them both in their theoretical premises and in their applications or practical manifestations. Fascism denies that the majority, through the mere fact of being a majority, can rule human societies; it denies that this majority can govern by means of a periodical consultation; it affirms the irremediable, fruitful and beneficent inequality of men, who cannot be levelled by such a mechanical and extrinsic fact as universal suffrage. (p. 31)

Fascism is definitely and absolutely opposed to the doctrines of liberalism, both in the political and economic sphere."


La dottrina del fascismo. Benito Mussolini, 1935.

Sounds like Pogo has a lot to answer (or compensate) for.

Trooper York said...

"Kinda makes me wonder what they would think of a Mosque being built near ground zero."

They would love it. They do love it. They would love to have it right over the actual site of ground zero.

They are the insulted. Nothing they or the rest of their ilk do should be questioned.

El Pollo Real said...

@ritmo

Palinguini con mussolini--is that what you're afraid of?

garage mahal said...

Mussolini was the founding member of ACORN.

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