June 11, 2010

"It almost feels as if all these women winning are kind of a blow to feminism."

"Because, each one of them, really, most of them, are, you know, very much, uh, uh, you know, against so many of things that women have fought for such a long time."

That's Tina Brown trying to babble her way to saying something that makes sense. Watch the video at the link. I think she realizes in the middle — at the "you know, very much, uh, uh, you know" — that after invoking the big idea "feminism," she doesn't know how to say the right thing about feminism. It's not right to say according to feminism, women aren't supposed to be Republicans, so she can't say that. What then can she say? She goes with the weak, mealy-mouthed "against so many of things that women have fought for such a long time." So many of the things, eh? What? And fought for such a long time — as if women are supposed to — what? — adhere to traditional values and not make waves?

And what about the idea that there is variety within feminism and vivid debate about what is good for women? George Stephanopoulos pushes Brown with "Well, you could argue they're different kinds of feminists...." And Brown settles in to the routine partisanship that is easy to spit out clearly: "Women, too, can be wing nuts, is the point." Yeah, that's cogent and clear. Funny too. Brown's attempt at a point about feminism was flabby blather because it was dishonest. "Women, too, can be wing nuts" — she's telling it straight now and shows it with the kicker that it's "the point." Thanks for abandoning your pretense of intellectual analysis for some plain politics. We get it, Tina. You're a liberal. You don't like when strong candidates emerge on the other side. And you have nothing interesting or insightful to say about feminism. Noted.

And speaking of the poverty of feminist analysis on "Good Morning America," the discussion turns immediately to Carly Fiorini's comment about Barbara Boxer's hair:
STEPHANOPOULOS: ...Carly Fiorina after the election, getting caught on tape....

CARLY FIORINI: Laura saw Barbara Boxer briefly on television this morning. And said what everyone says. God, what is that hair? So yesterday....

BROWN: You know what I love about it so much? It's like, as we were saying... it was great that it was gender-neutral. Then, all of a sudden, you've suddenly switched to absolute claws come out. And it's like — the women. What really killed? It was so yesterday. It wasn't just women. It was rich women. That's the point.
Oh! Brown is declaring something else to be "the point." I'm not sure what, though. Rich women. Stephanopoulos cuts her off and crashes headlong into what will be the next underdeveloped topic (that Fiorini and Meg Whitman were CEOs). Presumably, if given a little room, Brown would have spouted some class politics about hair. Think of all the middle aged women who heard the rich lady's catty remark and looked at themselves in the mirror and saw a overgrown, undercolored, Boxeresque mops of hair and wondered if they could squeeze enough dollars out of the family budget to make a trip to the salon. Boxer's floppy, grizzled tresses will get knotted up with the heartstrings of California working women.

But Brown didn't get to say that, because it was time — fast-moving "Good Morning America" time — to opine about whether America could admire a corporate CEO these days. As if Hewlett Packard and eBay were spewing oil into the Gulf of Mexico.

151 comments:

SarcastiCarrie said...

Feminism isn't really about giving women choices and options and some semblance of equality in voting and property ownership and non-discrimination in mortgage applications.

It's about limiting women's choices to a different set of pre-determined things they have to do. I hate that.

kent said...

Between Andrew Sullivan's playing obsession with playing "Crusading Boy Gynecologist," and the left's latest current giggly, grade school fixation on Sarah Palin's breasts: I'd say any recent "blows to feminism" are being fired from port, rather than starboard. ;)

pm317 said...

Democrats like Brown don't have a leg to stand on after the way they treated Hillary Clinton to defend feminism.

kent said...

Between Andrew Sullivan's ongoing obsession with playing "Crusading Boy Gynecologist," and the left's latest current giggly, grade school fixation on Sarah Palin's breasts: I'd say any recent "blows to feminism" are being fired from port, rather than starboard. ;)

LarsPorsena said...

"..I'd say any recent "blows to feminism" are being fired from port, rather than starboard. ;)"

Aye,aye,Matey!

PatCA said...

"And speaking of the poverty of feminist analysis.."

So true. The leftists have been tripping over their own contradictions for a while, and revealing their true, narrow ideology. It's not about freedom or choice at all.

The center and right have all the intellectual vigor at this point in history. This president, and his associates and powerful agenda provide the focal points.

John said...

I don't understand how callow idiots like Brown can be so successful.

former law student said...

whether America could admire a corporate CEO these days.

Meg Whitman, si! (successful CEO, built up eBay from small origins)
Carly Fiorina, no! (failed CEO)

But they have chosen jobs with different degrees of difficulty. Running the state of California is a daunting task, especially for a Republican dealing with a spendhappy Democratic legislature whose largest single constituency is unionized government employees -- when the state cupboards are bare.

In contrast, all Carly would have to do is move to DC and vote once in a while.

El Pollo Real said...

Noi siamo tutte Fiorine

wv: "alizera" honest to blog it said that.

chuck b. said...

"And what about the idea that there is variety within feminism and vivid debate about what is good for women?"

Where would this various and vivid debates be going on? Surely not at any universities. In my experience, the debates there are not so various or vivid. I'm guessing the debates on blogs are not that different either.

John said...

FLS,

I think Carli's tenure at HP is looking better now than it did when she left. The real criticism of her was the Compac merger. And that has turned out to be the right decision. The rest of the criticisms were just HP good old boys whinning.

And she was very successful in her previous jobs. And, as you point out, being a Senator is not being a CEO. And as we are finding out with Obama, the job has so little to do with being a CEO, it does nothing to prepare you for being one.

Big Mike said...

I guess Tina Brown doesn't get that a woman's absolute right to choose means that she might choose differently from the way Tina Brown would want them to choose.

AllenS said...

Listening to Tina Brown trying to define feminism is like Justice Potter Stewart trying to define porn. "I know it when I see it".

Big Mike said...

Pronoun antecedents. [shakes head sadly side to side]

shoutingthomas said...

Ann, it would help if you, too, stuffed the feminist babble.

Maybe, just maybe, this thought would occur to you:

"That entire pile of shit was a bunch of middle class, white, college educated girls carrying on about being oppressed... just like black people under Jim Crow."

When will you stop talking this nonsense? When will you stop trying the same corrupt strategy with gays?

When you confess it was just BS posturing, we might start talking sense.

rollingdivision said...

This all go a long way to support the point, that for many, feminism is just a tool to support liberalism and nothing more. In fact liberalism (progressives) is the primary goal of many feminists not the equal treatment of women. This is just like the green movement.

c3 said...

Stephanopoulos, a former aide to Bill Clinton, echoed this talking point: "Meg Whitman head of Ebay. Carly Fiorini ran Hewitt Packard. There's some controversy there." There's controversy to being a CEO at Ebay?

Jon Corzine, George Soros, not so much. And I'm sure its because they weren't CEO's


And surely someone saw the ultimate irony of replaying Fiorini's "catty" remark with snarky comment by TWO OTHER WOMEN WHO ARE "IN THE KNOW"

I have to admit, every time I listen to Tina Brown I feel embarrassed that I periodically read The Daily Beast.

garage mahal said...

kent, AC245, Revenant, Lincoln.

Clean up in aisle 6 please.

John said...

"Stephanopoulos, a former aide to Bill Clinton, echoed this talking point: "Meg Whitman head of Ebay. Carly Fiorini ran Hewitt Packard. There's some controversy there." There's controversy to being a CEO at Ebay?

Jon Corzine, George Soros, not so much. And I'm sure its because they weren't CEO's"


Yeah. The other day Contessa Brewer, who may actually be the dumbest person on MSNBC, which puts her in the running for the dumbest person on earth, was whining about Witman spending her own money on the campaign. She never had a problem with that when Dave Corzine and Nanny Bloomburg were doing it.

GMay said...

Kent posted: "something about the left's cattiness toward Palin"

I swear that the more the liberal overmind loses its shit over Sarah Palin, the more I like her. I know it's not rational, but I can't help it.

The thought of liberals lying in pools of cold sweat while gnawing at their bedsheets over Sarah Palin just gives me a warm fuzzy.

former law student said...

Democrats like Brown

Septuagenarian liberals who ran against Billy Jeff?

don't have a leg to stand on after the way they treated Hillary Clinton

Whachoo tawkin' 'bout Willis? (Gary Coleman, RIP)

to defend feminism.

I tried to tease out a coherent thought, to no avail.

c3 said...

Further comment:

I remember how important it was that President Obama was getting advice from Warren Buffett during his transition. It gave real economic gravitas to the future administration. (And besides he's a humble guy!!)

But now we've once again regressed to a generic tone of anti-corporation. Look at the latest/biggest domestic issues: Wall Street meltdown, Healthcare reform and Gulf Oil Spill. Has there not be a clearer message of:

BIG CORPORATIONS ARE BAAAADDDDDD!


"They steal your house, waste your money, let you die as they profit and ultimately poison the very earth we live on" (said while shaking fist angrily at the horizon)

Damn you corporations!!

c3 said...

PS Please buy your next car from GM

kent said...

GMay: The thought of liberals lying in pools of cold sweat while gnawing at their bedsheets over Sarah Palin just gives me a warm fuzzy.

Oh, yeah. ;) Doubtless you've seen this already... but, just on the off-chance that you (or anyone else here) hasn't:

Hi, Neighbor! --
Special Guest Commentary
by the Sarah Palin Homunculus that Lives Inside Liberals' Heads


garage: Clean up in aisle 6 please.

I don't "do" cryptic anytime before 10:00 A.M. PST, sorry. ;)

garage mahal said...

kent:

"That entire pile of shit was a bunch of middle class, white, college educated girls carrying on about being oppressed... just like black people under Jim Crow."

kent said...

garage: Ah. Thank you. That, and another cup of coffee, helps bring me up to speed. ;)

Franco said...

Feminism has become a meaningless word, mostly because of the incoherence of feminists.

I just laugh at them all, and start wondering if maybe it was better when they weren't allowed to vote.

SteveR said...

So if we reinsitute the "Fairness Doctrine" does it mean we can keep Tina Brown off the air? That's as fair a thing as I can imagine.

MadisonMan said...

I don't expect any woman to be coherent all the time. No man is either.

John said...

"I don't expect any woman to be coherent all the time. No man is either."

True. But how about some of the time or even once in her life? Is that too much to ask?

Joan said...

I have to admit, every time I listen to Tina Brown I feel embarrassed that I periodically read The Daily Beast.

I read The Daily Beast because it's good to know, well I was going to say, it's good to know how the other side is thinking, but that's not really what goes on over there. I'll just say, it's good to see what particular tack the hysteria is taking on the issues of the day. Even when the columnists are reasoned and reasonable, as happens from time to time, the commenters are generally... not.

Tina Brown wouldn't give me the time of day, no matter that I graduated from a prestigious school and had a very successful career in a male-dominated industry. I ruined all that by leaving the job to stay home with my kids, and the fact that I've returned to the workforce in a "woman's job" (teaching) would only horrify her more, I'm sure. Fortunately, I don't give a fig about what she or her "sisters" think of me. Their measures of success are even more narrow and stifling than the traditional gender roles they reject.

John said...

Joan,

You only have the right to "choose" if you make what they consider the "right choices". Didn't you know that?

former law student said...

Boy, those straw feminists are really getting their asses kicked today.

BAS said...

I don't get it, Edwards trotted the "better hair" thing six years ago. Why make hair a female issue?

Also I would like to point out that Boxer is also rich, but she is not rich because she was a CEO, she is rich because her husband earned the money, Marin County is not cheap. The same thing goes for Nancy Pelosi, as much as I respect her balls, she was able to get there because someone in her family (Mr. Pelosi), was in charge of making the money.

kent said...

I don't expect any woman to be coherent all the time

... and thus, the Arianna Huffington media empire was born! ;)

Quayle said...

Here is the amazing logic of the group-think-mired left:

Women shouldn't fight against so many of things that [other] women have fought for such a long time.

How come?

Because [other] women have fought for such a long time.

This is the silliness you arrive at when you see people first and only as some monolithic group defined by some external characteristic.

c3 said...

More from the Daily Beast
This column from Linda Hershman. Among the choice quotes:
Is the last hurrah of the feminist movement to put a bunch of antiabortion Republican females in public office?

Well there you go. If you're anti-abortion you just aren't....you just can't.....I mean, really!!

Of course no column about conservative women would be complete without the "P" word:

When Palin went "feminist," the "feminist blogosphere" lit up like a scoreboard at a hockey mom game,

Shouldn't every liberal writer have a disclaimer immediately after the word "Palin" stating:
WARNING! Snark ahead

After all, the female bloggers hadn't been long on feminist standards: Put a ring on it. Change your name to your husband's name. Quit your job to stay home with your babies. Don't support the pro-choice woman candidate for president. Don't report your rapist.

WHAT THE HELL!!!

In addition to the obvious nonsensical aspect of generalizing from one experience to 300 million Americans...Fiorina and Palin's pitches reveal graphically how selfish their brand of feminism is.

Ohhhh, of course. They just DON'T CARE. I mean advocating for a ban on health care premiums based on sex, even though women generally consume more healthcare than men, or seeking state or national legislation mandating any and all sorts of treatments related to breast cancer is just being fair. I MEAN BREAST CANCER IS THE LEADING AND MOST IMPORTANT CAUSE OF DEATH, DEVASTATION, GLOBAL WARMING AND POOR GAS MILEAGE THAT WE KNOW OF!!


And the big finish:
Here's what real—not grizzly—mothers do: Make it easier for the young ones coming along next.

Its for the kids

PS And I love the two pictures. They (Hirshman and Fiorini) look like they could be sisters, except Hirshman looks a bit older and surely, wiser.

Damon said...

The ultimate goal of feminism has not been achieved, but the fight is now in the hands of the individual women.

It is similar to civil rights. The force necessary to get the cause moving required great organizational efforts. The cause has matured, rendering them useless.

Now and feminists civil rights leaders do mostly harm because they search for relevance by supporting "pre-determined things."

lyssalovelyredhead said...

FLS said: Boy, those straw feminists are really getting their asses kicked today.

Straw feminists? They are the ones actually calling success of women that they disagree with "kind of a blow to feminism." They are the ones actually gossiping over imagined breast implants. They are the ones who have actually made excuses for (liberal) womanizer after womanizer.

These aren't strawmen arguments, although they're so outrageous you would think they were.

- Lyssa

HDHouse said...

Let me make a wild guess.

Meade doesn't like Tina Brown very much...

Just a hunch.

TRO said...

"I don't understand how callow idiots like Brown can be so successful."

Because there is no shortage of useful idiots on the left that support them.

HDHouse said...

PatCA said...
"The center and right have all the intellectual vigor at this point in history. "

God yes!!!! and let's thank Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck for that leg up!

ya'betcha.

shoutingthomas said...

Feminism is all about Emily Bazelon, granddaughter of a US Court of Appeals judge and second cousin of Betty Friedan, arguing that white firemen in Boston should be denied promotion because their fathers were firemen.

You are a feminist, Ann, because it created a quota system that benefits you.

The rest of it is utter bullshit. There is something to be said for the argument that white women hate beta males above all other humans.

HDHouse said...

Kinda glad I showed up here. Seems like someone left barn door open.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Kinda glad I showed up here. Seems like someone left barn door open.

That explains the manure smell.

HDHouse said...

shoutingthomas said...
"You are a feminist, Ann, because it created a quota system that benefits you"


wow a cheap shot from ultra right field...nice ST...your mom must be very proud.

1. let Ann assign her own reasons - she doesn't need yours
2. I suspect that you exist because there, once, was a quoto system...just a hunch.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Meg Whitman, si! (successful CEO, built up eBay from small origins)
Carly Fiorina, no! (failed CEO)



Are we going to have to discuss this again?

Independent George said...

The wealth issue really bugs me. They didn't inherit or marry their wealth; they earned it by working their way up to the top of their (male-dominated) industries. Isn't that a good thing for feminism?

AllenS said...

Someone left the door open on the house in the back yard. The one with the half moon on the door.

garage mahal said...

garage: Ah. Thank you. That, and another cup of coffee, helps bring me up to speed. ;)

Cool :)

Any thoughts on the comment?

dbp said...

It almost sounds like how an Inquisition might have gone had Tomás de Torquemada lost his nerve half-way through.

Joe said...


The wealth issue really bugs me. They didn't inherit or marry their wealth; they earned it by working their way up to the top of their (male-dominated) industries. Isn't that a good thing for feminism?



It depends do they support gay marriage and abortion? It's your views on POLITICS that matter, not your accomplishments....that's modern feminism.

Sarah Palin is anathema because she doesn't think right, Hillary is fine as a carpet-bagging, Tammy Winette Clone, making money on her husband's coat-tails, because she thinks the right way.

Trooper York said...

There was a much more cogent and interesting discussion of feminism at the Real Housewives of New York Reunion episode.

shoutingthomas said...

The quota system became entrenched because it gave professional white men an irresistible twofer:

1. They could preen in front of their wives and daughters. ("See how liberal and magnanimous I am?")

2. It gave them a very effective weapon against competitive lower class white men.

Thus was a nightmare of lies born.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Garage said: Any thoughts on the comment?

I know I wasn't the one asked, but my first thought was "Is he really trying to pretend that ST's quotes represent anyone else here?"

- Lyssa

(ST, I know you'll get mad at me for saying it, but it's true. You're kind of an oddity.)

wild chicken said...

Hate to say it, but women are as mousey and conformist as they ever were back in the 1950s. And that's saying something.

kent said...

Any thoughts on the comment?

Still waiting for any/all of the resident lefties, hereabouts, to weigh in on the cogent (and entirely on-point) first posting I made on this thread -- fourth one down from the top; can't possibly miss it -- before taking on any additional little chores this morning. The "blows to feminism" detailed therein strike me as being manifestly larger and more serious spills, quite frankly.

I am both retired and patient. I can wait. ;)

Joe said...


What is a feminist, anyway? Does anyone have any definitions they'd like to supply? What are the goals of modern American feminism? I'd like to figure out if I am one or not.


Well one self-proclaimed feminist, Marcotte, IIRC, makes the argument that Feminism is a front in the fight for “Social Justice.” Or in other words, a part of the Progressive/Leftist Movement. What’s you take on gay marriage, abortion, universal health care, college made free for all, unionization, environmentalism, and the War on Terror? If, by-and-large, you line up with Medea Benjamin, NOW, ACORN, SEIU, Queer Nation, and the like, then YES you’re a ”Feminist.” If, HOWEVER, you disagree with some or most of these points- and I’d argue that it’s holistic, to reject one is to reject ALL, though I could be wrong on that-, THEN you’re probably NOT a “feminist,” within the movement’s terms…

Just as Pat Buchanan can claim to be a “real” Conservative, most Conservatives reject him, so I’d argue that from the Conservative Movement’s view Buchanan is NOT a Conservative. So too you. If you aren’t onboard for the full Progressive Ride, you aren’t a Feminist, which Is a gender-oriented part of the Progressive Movement.

Old Dad said...

Good Morning America is a venue for supposedly notable people to say stupid things, often of a political stripe.

Tina Brown is not stupid, and it's not entirely clear that she is a feminist in that she can't explain the concept. It's abundanly clear, though, that she is a rabid partisan. She won't convice any of her partisan opponents. In fact, she doesn't even try. She makes no argument whatsoever. But she does throw a little rancid red meat to her fellow travelers which, I suppose, was the point. At her next luncheon at Tavern on the Green she can brag that she kicked Carly's and Meg's elitist wing nut asses, or would that be the President?

Beth said...

Big Mike, your point about choice sounds good, but it's a semantics game. Anti-abortion feminists want to outlaw abortion, not just encourage women to make a particular choice.

garage mahal said...

I know I wasn't the one asked, but my first thought was "Is he really trying to pretend that ST's quotes represent anyone else here?"

Nope. Was curious why no push-back though. Even when prodded.

traditionalguy said...

The message is bluntly telling women that since they were once controlled by rules from a patriarchal society, that the Roe v Wade defenders have single handedly earned the right to control over your minds....so fall in and hate the GOP and the tea party as instructed by the Party political officer.

Synova said...

From C3's link: "Carly Fiorina was one of a wave of GOP women to win the primaries. But anti-abortion, pro-Obamacare repeal candidates aren't what women need on Capitol Hill, says Linda Hirshman."

Thank you, Linda Hirshman. If you didn't tell me what I need, how would I ever know?

Tell me what to think, what I ought to care about, what my priorities should be. Lord... you'd think you were the patriarchy.

GMay said...

HDHouse,

Did you really post this:

"1. let Ann assign her own reasons - she doesn't need yours"

After you posted this:

"Let me make a wild guess. Meade doesn't like Tina Brown very much..."

?

Barn doors indeed!

GMay said...

kent said: "Oh, yeah. ;) Doubtless you've seen this already..."

Yup. I posted it over here a couple days ago I think. I doubt I was the first to post it here either.

Iowahawk FTW.

kent said...

Did you really post this:

After you posted this:

Personally, I think it's swwet that he lets the voices in his head takes turns. ;)

edutcher said...

Tina Brown is typical of the faux intellectuals found only in Leftist hothouses like Vanity Fair and Salon. When it comes to brains, she is in the Sally Quinn - Barbara Boxer category.

This whole business reminds us once again that feminism was never about women, but it was always by, about, and for the Leftist agenda and the Democrat Party.

HDHouse said...

PatCA said...
"The center and right have all the intellectual vigor at this point in history. "

God yes!!!! and let's thank Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck for that leg up!

ya'betcha.


Yes, as I mentioned yesterday, Miss Sarah succeeded in kicking Presidential ass when she galvanized opposition to ZeroCare with 2 words (Donald Berwick, anyone?). 3 of the 4 candidates she endorsed won and the fourth finished much better than initially expected, while the Demos are deserting The Zero like rats off a sinking ship.

YA BETCHA!!!!

kent said...

Did you really post this:

After you posted this:


Personally, I think it's sweet that he lets the voices in his head takes turns. ;)

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Nope. Was curious why no push-back though. Even when prodded.

Because it's a lot easier to ignore ST than to respond each time he goes off. People have pushed back plenty of times before, and it just encourages him. Note that no one has expressed any agreement with him.

(Now, if we could just convince people to do that when Jeremy chimes in!)

GMay said...

garage mahal said: "Nope. Was curious why no push-back though. Even when trolled."

FIFY

(Blogger desperately needs strikethrough script.)

GMay said...

LLRH said: "(Now, if we could just convince people to do that when Jeremy chimes in!)"

But, but, but...Jeremy is so much fun!

garage mahal said...

kent
Have not followed the Sarah Palin Augmentation Theory too closely, although I did see the pic in question, and gave it a thumbs up. I love tits. I'm sure it's being talked about in lefty blog comments, but I haven't seen too many posts about it "on the left".

former law student said...

Any thoughts on the comment?

Still waiting for any/all of the resident lefties, hereabouts, to weigh in on the cogent (and entirely on-point) first posting I made on this thread


What leftists?

Andrew Sullivan considers himself to be a conservative.

The HotAir link goes to the Boston Herald, the conservative paper in Beantown.

Try finding a few leftists to support your point.

Joe said...


Andrew Sullivan considers himself to be a conservative.

But like Pat Buchanan, we don't claim HIM...he can claim what he likes. He also claims that Trig is not Sarah's, so Sulliavan's "claims" are a bit suspect.

Sullivan IS like Buchanan in that Leftists love to trot them out when they need a "Conservative" to show that, indeed, the current object of Progressive wrath is truly wrong, because why even another "Conservative" agrees with them.

Synova said...

"That entire pile of shit was a bunch of middle class, white, college educated girls carrying on about being oppressed... just like black people under Jim Crow."


Is this what garage was having vapours over?

It's got a lot of truth to it, at least for "second wave" or whatever... I think that being required to be *idle* is more oppressive than it might seem but once past Suffragettes and a push to ensure women legal recourse (and most certainly prohibition was a woman's movement as well) what we've got is wealthy women getting together to plan this "feminist movement" to the thump-thump-thump of the washing machine in the background as the maid does the laundry. And what we've got *now* is absolutely college, usually Ivy League, educated privilege without a single obstacle to whatever they want to do with their lives, whining about the patriarchy and the movie Iron Man.

At what point am I supposed to "push back" at shoutingthomas?

MadisonMan said...

It seems a little ironic to post about breasts in a thread purportedly on feminism, but I am also aware of the Palin Augmentation theory. Such a theory seems to hit just about any female celebrity when there's a picture that however remotely hints at such a possibility.

MadisonMan said...

(Wow, that was almost 4 years ago!)

kent said...

What leftists?

Andrew Sullivan considers himself to be a conservative.


... and the small boy living next door to me considers himself to be Batman, whenever he ties a bath towel about his neck and dashes about the front yard.

Sullivan supported Kerry in '04, and Obama in '08. He is, manifestly, no "conservative."

The HotAir link goes to the Boston Herald, the conservative paper in Beantown.

Passing over, for the nonce, whether or not being "the conservative paper in Beantown" is in any way analogous to being (oh, say) the tallest player on an all-midget basketball team: the actual story itself cites plainly leftist sources, such as Wonkette -- something you would have known, surely, had you actually botherewd to read it in the first place, rather than simply allowing your knee to jerk for all it was worth.

Try again... seriously, this time.

GMay said...

"Andrew Sullivan considers himself to be a conservative."

I can say that I'm Santa Claus but that doesn't mean I am.

Synova said...

I took "just like Jim Crow" as a claim that modern feminists don't know what real oppression looks like... an example of actual badness as opposed to imaginary badness.

GMay said...

Damn, kent beat me to the Sully point.

garage mahal said...

At what point am I supposed to "push back" at shoutingthomas?

I don't know, maybe the part about blacks not being oppressed under Jim Crow laws? Segregation of public places, restaurants, restrooms, drinking fountains was just a pile of shit about being oppressed"?

former law student said...

So? Althouse voted for Obama. Does that make her a leftist?

former law student said...

Try again... seriously, this time.

Give me something to sink my teeth into -- your two Gossip Girls don't fill the bill.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Andrew Sullivan considers himself to be a conservative.

Prussian Field Marshal von Blucher thought he was pregnant with an elephant too.

kent said...

I'm sure it's being talked about in lefty blog comments, but I haven't seen too many posts about it "on the left".

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/09/sarah-palin-breast-implan_n_606596.html

http://wonkette.com/415838/did-sarah-palin-buy-herself-a-couple-of-luxury-items.

http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/31617.html

First three that Googled up. Not even counting DailyKos, DemocraticUnderground, etc., etc.

No opinions whatsoever on Sullivan's never-ending Palin Pregnancy Paranoia? Really?

AllenS said...

The Althouse Woman is not a leftist, she's a Liberal.

kent said...

Give me something to sink my teeth into

After you've already revealed yourself to be toothless? That would be cruel.

Joe said...


I don't know, maybe the part about blacks not being oppressed under Jim Crow laws? Segregation of public places, restaurants, restrooms, drinking fountains was just a pile of shit about being oppressed"?


That's YOUR spin on it...MY spin is that the point was that Jim Crow WAS terrible, and that Sarah Palin and Meg Whitman being prominent isn't ANYTHING like the opression of Jim Crow.

If you had a better opinion of your opponent's you wouldn't look so silly.

garage mahal said...

No opinions whatsoever on Sullivan's never-ending Palin Pregnancy Paranoia? Really?

Can't stand him, and don't read him, unless it's linked here. Am I supposed to have definitive opinion on Sullivan's obsession with Palin?

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Upon reading Synova's comment, I got an "Oh!" moment- I read ST's comment the same way Garage did (that blacks weren't oppressed by Jim Crow), and just shrugged it off as being off the wall and nonsensical.

But Synova's read makes much more sense- that these women think of themselves as oppressed like blacks under Jim Crow, when they are really nothing like that at all. So, he meant exactly the opposite of what I thought.

In other words, you did OK, ShoutingT. (although I still think that at other times you've come off less well.)

- Lyssa

NotYourTypicalNewYorker said...

The original goal of feminism has been dead a long time,a very long time.

And it's the left that killed it.

kent said...

Am I supposed to have definitive opinion on Sullivan's obsession with Palin?

"Am I supposed to have [a] definitive opinion on anything shoutingthomas obsesses over, ever?"

You do see how this works, right...? ;)

Omaha1 said...

There, there, Mrs. Meade, no need to worry your pretty little head about things like politics. We don't want the wrong sort of people to influence your weak mind. The nice "feminists" will tell you just what you should think.

Flexo said...

What is a feminist, anyway? Does anyone have any definitions they'd like to supply? What are the goals of modern American feminism? I'd like to figure out if I am one or not.

The counterfeit feminism of the left is essentially anti-woman. It despises the feminine, hates those attributes that are exclusively woman, and advocates instead that women should become like the worst caricatures of men.

Most especially, the counterfeit feminism of the left sees the female body, and thus the female person, as something to be destroyed. Obsessed with genitalia, they see the uterus and ovaries as little more than defective abnormalities to be suppressed, and they see the fruits thereof, i.e. the unborn child, as a diseased tumor to be cut out of the body. To the counterfeit feminism of the left, the only real woman is the one who rejects and seeks to destroy these things which are exclusive to women.

To the counterfeit feminism of the left, which lusts for power, the only good woman is the one who acts like the misogynist men that populate the left, who exploit and use women as objects, especially sexually.

Authentic feminism, on the other hand, recognizes and celebrates the intrinsic value and genius of woman, equal to man in dignity and complementary of him. Authentic feminism is not concerned with a power struggle, does not see man as an instrinsic oppressive patriarchy, but as an equal partner, both with different characteristics that are exclusive to that sex, but which complement each other. Authentic feminism recognizes and celebrates that women are women and men are men, both called, as part of their nature as human persons, to the giving of self, charity in truth.

garage mahal said...

"Am I supposed to have [a] definitive opinion on anything shoutingthomas obsesses over, ever?"

I thought you might have tagged it since it was on this very thread, on a topic [racism] that [rightfully] you have a strong distaste for.

GMay said...

Flexo said: "A bunch of stuff."

Man my internal jukebox started humming "America the Beautiful" while I was reading that. Well said.

kent said...

I thought you might have tagged it since it was on this very thread, on a topic [racism] that [rightfully] you have a strong distaste for.

Understandable, certainly. Given that the actual topic of the thread is "feminism" and feminist sexism, however: I'd rather the conversation not be (further) derailed from the points I initially raised, in enlargement of the Professor's own posting.

I'm concerned that, so far, not one single member of this site's leftist contingent has had so much as a single word of condemnation -- or even mild disapproval, really -- to offer regarding Brown's spiteful spleen-venting, or the sundry examples of Palin Derangement Syndrome plainly referenced. That, to me, is rather more to the actual point of things, topic-wise. YMMV, however.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Flexo said: does not see man as an instrinsic oppressive patriarchy, but as an equal partner, both with different characteristics that are exclusive to that sex, but which complement each other.

It seems like there is a lot of difficulty with the concept of different, but complementary- in as much as that just because there is a difference, one is not better than the other. You see this with old-school feminists, the ones that want to worship the feminine, talk about how if women ran the world, all would be wonderful, etc.

Lem said...

Boxeresque..

thats Barbara Boxer.. pass it on ;)

Joe said...

It seems like there is a lot of difficulty with the concept of different, but complementary-

There usually is, “different” rapidly becomes “Better.” Track and Field is DIFFERENT from football-by which I mean REAL Football, not a bunch of Euro-Wussies in shorts, kicking a ball around-but soon that becomes BETTER than football and vice versa. Men and womyn are different and soon, one group of intellectuals takes that to mean better…men are BETTER than womyn, bcause… or Womyn are BETTER because….rather than womyn are better at repetitive work, men are better at killing Wooly Mammoths, so have the womyn quilt and the men hunt…just doesn’t seem to work out that way.

garage mahal said...

kent
So only expect pushback on racism, when it's "on topic". Gotcha.

kent said...

So only expect pushback on racism, when it's "on topic". Gotcha.

I steadfastly refuse to allow myself to be lumbered with the responsibility for your erroneous readings in this matter, garage. ;)

The words state what they plainly state, and the responses have been precisely as I have detailed them, more's the pity. "And further deponent sayeth not," as we used to say back in the office.

shoutingthomas said...

You're a vile piece of work, garage.

Almost axiomatic these days that sanctimonious preening is the dead giveaway that beneath the surface lurks a worthless, lying jackass.

jamboree said...

Bitch. :-)

(Where was Tina's concern about cattiness during Palin? During Harriet Meyers? During Condoleeza?)

It's funny. Calling Fiorina and Whitman "rich women" doesn't seem to properly take into account that they made their own money - but that's partially a societal thing on my part. "Rich woman" still has connotations a wife of a rich man (you know, like a Dem woman), but I suppose "rich man" does go either way.

jamboree said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
garage mahal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
garage mahal said...

Almost axiomatic these days that sanctimonious preening is the dead giveaway that beneath the surface lurks a worthless, lying jackass.

Feel free to clarify your statement regarding oppression and Jim Crow laws.

Lem said...

"It almost feels as if all these women winning are kind of a blow to feminism."

First off all.. they never played softball.

Do I need to say more ;)

Joe said...


Feel free to clarify your statement regarding oppression and Jim Crow laws.


It WAS clear Garage, you just didn't want to read it that way.....Because ranting on aobut your opponent's racism is ever so much more fun than having to deal with the silliness of your own side.

Synova said...

I didn't think his statement about Jim Crow laws was unclear, though I suppose it was if someone read the words with a particular assumption and expectation.

I see no reason at all why your tender sensibilities, garage, and insistence on seeing racism in every utterance lays an obligation on others to correct you.

Synova said...

And yet again... the discussion devolves to Salmon.

garage mahal said...

It WAS clear Garage, you just didn't want to read it that way..

Ok, your interpretation is.......?

Joe said...

It WAS clear Garage, you just didn't want to read it that way..

Ok, your interpretation is.......?

That's YOUR spin on it...MY spin is that the point was that Jim Crow WAS terrible, and that Sarah Palin and Meg Whitman being prominent isn't ANYTHING like the oppression of Jim Crow.

If you had a better opinion of your opponent's you wouldn't look so silly.


IF you bothered reading before commenting you’d have seen this. But if you’d bothered reading the original you’d have avoided the whole thing, anyway.

garage mahal said...

That's YOUR spin on it...MY spin is that the point was that Jim Crow WAS terrible, and that Sarah Palin and Meg Whitman being prominent isn't ANYTHING like the oppression of Jim Crow.

Sorry, I did miss it. But the explanation is just whack. He said the claims of middle aged white girls of oppression was a pile of shit, "just like black people under Jim Crow".

Here it is again:

"That entire pile of shit was a bunch of middle class, white, college educated girls carrying on about being oppressed... just like black people under Jim Crow."

Joe said...

That entire pile of shit was a bunch of middle class, white, college educated girls carrying on about being oppressed... just like black people under Jim Crow."

That a bunch of middle class, white college educated girls were carrying on like they were being oppressed under Jim Crow, in other words their complaints were over-blown, that this was NOTHING like Jim Crow. And that these “of middle class, white, college educated girls” had very little to complain about. Seemed fairly clear to me, but then I didn’t “look for the racism” like you do. I just read the words and derived their meaning. Not being all Post-Modern I just did like my grade school teacher(s) would have me do….now YOU being all slick an’ smart and edjamuh-kated plumbed to the sub-textual levels and teased out the semiotics of the phraseology.

Lem said...

Joe and Garage should have a beer summit.

Elliott A said...

The lefties get very upset when minorities are conservatives also. All that work to set them free and the brainwashing didn't take!

Roger J. said...

Who is Tina Brown and why should I care what she thinks or says--or more likely what she says, since there is not much evidence that she thinks before she says. At least from the quoted article.

And apropos Madison Man's comment--just what is it that drives people nuts about breasts? This is a great mystery to me--Tits are good--big, little, north-south, or east west--but when they become the defining issue, someone has caught the vapours and are clutching their pearls.

Joe said...


Joe and Garage should have a beer summit.


Single Malt Scotch summit or Irish Whisky Summit, please.....

lyssalovelyredhead said...

And apropos Madison Man's comment--just what is it that drives people nuts about breasts? This is a great mystery to me--Tits are good--big, little, north-south, or east west--but when they become the defining issue, someone has caught the vapours and are clutching their pearls.

That's driving me crazy, too. Even if Ms. Palin had gotten it done, so what? Aren't they her breasts with which to do as she pleases? It really comes off as "OMG, sex!! The horrors!!" When did liberals become such prudes?

bagoh20 said...

It would be cool to have Romney bag on Ron Paul's hair in 2012. Or have Hillary accuse Palin of stuffing her bra. Or Ron Paul accuse Romney of stuffing. Oh, That would give Alpha Lib visions of the Bush package.

garage mahal said...

Single Malt Scotch summit or Irish Whisky Summit, please.....

New Glarus Moon Man Pale Ale or Ale Asylum Hopalicious for me

former law student said...

Ha! Kent's huffingtonpost cite links to (wait for it) Fox News!

http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpp/news/offbeat/did-sarah-palin-get-a-boob-job-20100609

And the "sadlyno" post talks about crazed right-wingers' obsession with Palin's breasts at Newsbusters.

So the right wingers' obsession with la divine sarah physique magnifique is shoved off onto the left, probably because they are embarrassed to admit their little heads are http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpp/news/offbeat/did-sarah-palin-get-a-boob-job-20100609driving their bigger heads.

After you've already revealed yourself to be toothless?

Oh that Kent. A legend in his own mind. And perhaps the biggest boob job of the day.

traditionalguy said...

Perhaps this swing to women victors in the GOP is fall out from the gutsy job Palin has done for over a year attacking Obama's policies while all the male GOP candidates were hiding out and watching

former law student said...

Ha! Kent's huffingtonpost cite links to (wait for it) Fox News!

http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpp/news/offbeat/did-sarah-palin-get-a-boob-job-20100609

And the "sadlyno" post talks about crazed right-wingers' obsession with Palin's breasts at Newsbusters.

So the right wingers' obsession with la divine sarah's physique magnifique is shoved off onto the left, probably because they are embarrassed to admit their little heads are driving their bigger heads.

After you've already revealed yourself to be toothless?

Oh that Kent. A legend in his own mind. And perhaps the biggest boob job of the day.

c3 said...

I know this is off-topic but if I put it in the applicable post, it would be the proverbial tree in the forest.

Anyway as to the question of liberal understanding of economics I give you this

Is there enough spending to be cut?

Yes this has to rank up there with
My check couldn't have bounced, I still have checks in my checkbook

AllenS said...

garage, I just want you to know that any man who eats road kill and drinks Wisconsin beer, is all right in my book.

AllenS said...

Joe, if you have a beer summit with garage, don't eat the food.

AC245 said...

kent, AC245, Revenant, Lincoln.

Clean up in aisle 6 please.


Hey Garage, still waiting for those answers. You keep running from thread to thread, dropping new little turds rather than responding.

First, the obligatory reminders of your mindset:
"garage mahal said...

Palin's church can't be any weirder than Obama's, and if she is a Pat Buchanan Republican I feel safer. He is about the only sane Republican I've heard these past 8 years. An truthfully I thought Buchanan's joke about Washington D.C. being "Israeli occupied territory" years ago friggin hilarious, with some truth behind it. But, I'm in the minority of liberals who like Buchanan.
9/3/08 7:20 PM"

"garage mahal said...
Better us than bitter and miserable fucksticks like you that call for spilled blood over health care bill votes. Or your racist asshole teabagger bretheren that call people n*ggers and spit on them on their way to a vote. Real darlings, you all. In truth, people like you would love nothing more than putting your boot on someones neck. That's why you always think someone else is trying to do it to you.
3/21/10 10:41 PM
"

Next, the questions you keep dodging:

Can you explain to everyone why you object to treating blacks as people, garage? Or why the concept of treating blacks as people frightens and confuses you so much that you needed to call for help?

Did you find anything that a "conservative" ever said here on Althouse that rises to your level of anti-semitism?

Is the misogynistic and anti-semitic "Garage Mahal" (profile 09549633975357196247) that posted here in 2006 also you? If so, how do you square using multiple accounts with your repeated claim that you've used the same account here for more than 4 years?

Fen said...

There's no need to dissect the Feminsist Left. All that we need to know of them was revealed during the Clinton Impeachment.

The sexual discimination of Paula Jones (D)

The sexual harassment of Monica Lewinksy (D)

The sexual assault of Kathleen Wiley (D)

The sexual discrimination of every female staffer(Ds) in the WH who refused to put out for Bill. No interviews at Revlon or the UN for you.

[...]

All these female Democrats, thrown under the bus by the Feminist Left in exchange for... a veto of the partial birth abortion ban.

After lecturing the rest of us for a decade on the evils of sexual predation in the workplace, Tina Brown and her ilk got down on their hands and knees and swallowed hard.

Why would anyone listen to them today?

Fen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Trooper York said...

That's the ticket Garage. You the man.

Trooper York said...

At the summit I will be bringing the wine.

I had to give up the beer. I just love it too much.

Dark Eden said...

"What is a feminist, anyway? Does anyone have any definitions they'd like to supply? What are the goals of modern American feminism? I'd like to figure out if I am one or not."

The quickest and most accurate definition I can think of is:

"A Marxist who uses the term 'patriarchy' slightly more frequently than your run of the mill Marxist. Supporting the rights of non-marxists who have vaginas is neither involved or allowed and is punishable by excommunication."

garage mahal said...

garage, I just want you to know that any man who eats road kill and drinks Wisconsin beer, is all right in my book.

heh. It wasn't like scavenging a carcass or anything. It was winter, we saw a doe on the ground about 30 yards from the highway, and saw some skid marks. We were bored and decided to drive back just to check it out, the guy that hit was long gone. Like I said it wasn't even worth it, it was pretty busted up internally. Stew meat.

AllenS said...

Sure.

kent said...

Ha! Kent's huffingtonpost cite links to (wait for it) Fox News!

Is dissembling your entire life, you poor, hopeless mook? The relevance of the HP cite is the (literally) hundreds of dizzyingly deranged conspiratorial comments posted by HP regulars thereon, obviously; ditto for the hyperventilating mouth-breathers over at SadlyNo and the Wonkette whackjobs.

Spastic attempt at deflection: FAILED. If that was your very best attempt at "logical" rebuttal, then your local law school's loss was definitely Hardees' gain.

Youngblood said...

Women like Fiorina and Haley and Whitman represent a challenge to her sense of gender identity.

After all, women are supposed to work with words. They're supposed to contextualize and critique popular culture. They're supposed to become celebrity journalists, gossip columnists, and editors of feted upper middle class magazines.

That's what women, specifically feminist women, are supposed to do.

They're not supposed to get their hands dirty running corporations or being competent accountants.

That's what men do. Women are supposed to cultivate and nurture the understanding that the things that (capitalist) men do are wrong. They're not supposed to do the same things. That's gender treason.

kent said...

Comedy gold: The “racist” Hallmark card

Heh.

wv: "obsess." Perfect. ;)

Youngblood said...

Oh, and savor the delicious irony of Tina "Tatler & Vanity Fair" Brown whining about Fiorina's comment about Barbara Boxer's hair.

Youngblood said...

Kent,

Holy shit, that's sad! Is the LA chapter of the NAACP actively seeking to undermine future claims of racism, or are the people involved just that stupid?

kent said...

Holy shit, that's sad! Is the LA chapter of the NAACP actively seeking to undermine future claims of racism, or are the people involved just that stupid?

Both, as I suspect the majority of them are former law students. ;)

GMay said...

Hate to see Hallmark and carriers of their product cave to utter stupidity.

kent said...

Typically, Ace has the best takeaway line:

"The left is focused on the two boobs under Sarah Palin's blouse, while the right is focused on the two boobs sitting in the Oval Office and in whatever broom closet they've converted to an office for Sheriff Joe Biden. Which strategy do you think will pay dividends in November?"

Clyde said...

So only Republican women pols are "rich", according to this silly talking head? When did Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer, Diane Feinstein, et. al, take a vow of poverty? I must have missed it.

Methadras said...

Women that are blowing feminism. Is that wrong?

amba said...

Check out Amy Siskind's The New Agenda Foundation. It attempts to bring together women of all political persuasions. Likewise my own slow-to-get-started blog Cloven Not Crested: A Blog About Women and Power. (which I would love for you, Ann, if you EVER cross-post, to cross-post to). I am very proud of its slogan: "We are broad minded."

Synova said...

See now kent, I disagree with Ace. I think that conservatives are concerned with Palin's feminine attributes very much. It's just that they don't tend to see either her attractiveness or fecundity as a bad thing.

"We are broad minded."

Amba, I like this. :-)

Value Added said...

True story re feminism - Cleveland fishwrap columnist Connie Schultz (married to Democrat Sen Sherrod Brown, btw) wrote a column (link) about how Sarah Palin wasn't a feminist because she's not pro-choice.

I wrote Schultz an email that said:

1.) Let me get this straight - Sarah Palin isn't a feminist because she believes unborn children - half of whom are girls who would grow up to be women - have rights that should not be violated?

2.) Sarah Palin - who became Alaska's chief executive without the benefit of family fortune or fame or without male benefactors (Hillary Clinton got to where she is by enabling serial adultery and appointment by men, for example), is not a feminist?

Pretty weak, if you ask me. I concluded my email by asking Connie Schultz why serious readers should not read her column and conclude that her view of feminism is not of the abortion-uber-alles variety.

I never heard back. So I am left to assume that Connie Schultz's view of feminism is of the abortion-uber-alles variety. Which is to say, not very feminist at all in my view.

Omaha1 said...

To add to your point, Value Added, one must also consider that the increased availability of abortion in countries such as China and India has resulted in the disproportionate killing of girl babies. Truly, the unconditional support and even promotion of unlimited abortion rights is the opposite of "feminism".