May 4, 2010

"White House in P.R. 'panic' over spill."

Says Politico.

They can't pontificate about Bush and Katrina anymore. Wouldn't it be amazing if Obama were to empathize with Bush's predicament? That would change the tenor of political discourse in Washington.

95 comments:

Montagne Montaigne said...

If 9/11 happened today I'm sure Republicans would put aside partisan differences and rally behind Obama.

...

Chase said...

They can't pontificate about Bush and Katrina anymore.

Rahm and Axelrod can't spin this one?

Even with the New York Times attempt to get out in front and take control of the story for the Obama Admin just last Saturday?


Just read the very first sentence of the New York Times News Article . . .

Try not to laugh.

This President is headed for a showdown with reality.

Chase said...

If 9/11 happened today I'm sure Republicans would put aside partisan differences and rally behind Obama.

Damn Straight. It's called "integrity" - look it up.

Which would have the effect of people like Montagne questioning Obama.

David said...

Obama empathize?

With Bush?

Professor, I blame Meade. You are still love crazy.

AprilApple said...

With this president, everything is about PR.

Seven Machos said...

If 9/11 happened today I'm sure Republicans would put aside partisan differences and rally behind Obama.

That is certainly true. There is no other political choice in the short term.

Seven Machos said...

If Obama were to say that he was wrong about Bush's competence -- that, yeah, foreign policy is tough and economies are delicate things and there ain't much you can do when an act of God levels a city -- then Obama would lose not only political support, he would lose his own reason for existing. The man might combust into nothingness right then and there.

shoutingthomas said...

MM,

You're not really interested in politics.

You're just mean as hell and looking to offload your venom.

Politics is just the excuse.

Try arguing about baseball. It's healthier.

Original Mike said...

Until I hear what the Administration could have done to mitigate the effects of the oil spill, I will remain unconvinced by this criticism of them. This isn't Katrina (OTH, I don't think Katrina was Katrina. I think a lot of the Katrina blame falls on local government.)

Seven Machos said...

Looks like the Cubs are going to suck again this year, Montaigne, despite paying out the nose for Soriano. And Zambrano in the bullpen? Give me a fucking break.

Big Mike said...

Wouldn't it be amazing if Obama were to empathize with Bush's predicament?

Yes it would. But it's not going to happen. Monty's response, with its implicit assumption that no one from the center and right would rally to support the President if there was an attack on the country, says everything that needs to be said.

AC245 said...

Original Mike:

If the information in this article is accurate, the spill could have been contained at or near the original accident site if the federal government had been prepared and followed the response plan for such emergencies that was approved back in 1994.

Moose said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
sunsong said...

Hope and change was Obama’s headline message in 2008, but those atop his campaign have always said that it was Obama’s cool competence — exemplified by his level-headed handling of the financial meltdown during the campaign’s waning days — that sealed the deal with independents and skeptical Democrats. The promise of rational, responsive and efficient government is Obama’s brand, his justification for bigger and bolder federal interventions and, ultimately, his rationale for a second term. – Glen Thrush & Mike Allen

Obama is the guy who wants to change America into a big government-loving country. It behooves him to stop everything and quickly save the day for the gulf Coast.

Original Mike said...

Gouguet speculated that burning could have captured 95 percent of the oil as it spilled from the well.

Well, if that's true that really sucks (thanks for the link, AC245). Of course, there have been 3 administrations who fell down on the job in that case.

holdfast said...

You are assuming that Obama is capable of empathy - I don't think that's a trait normally found in extreme narcissists.

Now the staffers maybe . . .

Seriously though, I don't blame Bush for Katrina - or at least I think the vast majority of the blame for the first 96 hours belongs to Nagin, Blanco and the Louisiana National Guard (putting your HQ below the waterline? Seriously?). Similarly, I don't automatically blame Obama for the spill response (or lack thereof) - I'd need to see some evidence or other information linking the WH to a poor response - I haven't even seen any useful reporting on where the federal, state and corporate responsibilities start and end.

E.M. Davis said...

Unless there's a couple thousand people holed up in the Superdome, this ain't going to be Obama's Katrina.

WV: redam. Honestly?

MadisonMan said...

the spill could have been contained at or near the original accident site if the federal government had been prepared and followed the response plan for such emergencies that was approved back in 1994.

It's not clear to me how a fire boom will help with old gurgling up from the Sea Floor. Fire booms seem better at containing a surface oil source.

Also, fire booms are of limited use, as it says in the article, if seas exceed 3 feet. My experience in the Gulf of Mexico says seas exceeding 3 feet are pretty common.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Karma.

Sorry it has to be at the expense of the poor people who are going to be suffering from this disaster.

Nevertheless.............KARMA.

MadisonMan said...

(old = oil) Bifocals. Sigh.

Lem said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dust Bunny Queen said...

Obama is the guy who wants to change America into a big government-loving country. It behooves him to stop everything and quickly save the day for the gulf Coast.

vw: proom. The sound Obama makes while flying in on his magical unicorn to save the day

Lem said...

Rahm Emanuel did say about the wall street meltdown..

"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. And what I mean by that is an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before.”

An energy crisis is going to waste Rahm..
This line of thinking, on the part of the WH Chief of staff, does lends itself to a certain line of speculation.. the kind attributed to Rush, mentioned earlier today.

Alex said...

How dare liberals question my patriotism. How fucken dare they.

TosaGuy said...

If you are not doing an effective job then building your good PR is 75 percent of your effort.

If you are doing an effective job then good PR takes care if itself.

This should be easy to fix...Obama did that the oceans would cease to rise with him in office....by trying just a little harder he could lower the ocean and and leaks would be easier to fix.

ricpic said...

They've got their boot on BP's neck. Now they've just gotta rev up hate for Big Earl 24/7 and it's mission accomplished.

garage mahal said...

Nobody could have predicted Katrina, and its effects.

URGENT — WEATHER MESSAGE
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW ORLEANS LA
1011 AM CDT SUN AUG 28, 2005

...DEVASTATING DAMAGE EXPECTED...

.HURRICANE KATRINA...A MOST POWERFUL HURRICANE WITH UNPRECEDENTED
STRENGTH...RIVALING THE INTENSITY OF HURRICANE CAMILLE OF 1969.

MOST OF THE AREA WILL BE UNINHABITABLE FOR WEEKS...PERHAPS LONGER. AT
LEAST ONE HALF OF WELL CONSTRUCTED HOMES WILL HAVE ROOF AND WALL
FAILURE. ALL GABLED ROOFS WILL FAIL...LEAVING THOSE HOMES SEVERELY
DAMAGED OR DESTROYED.

THE MAJORITY OF INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS WILL BECOME NON FUNCTIONAL.
PARTIAL TO COMPLETE WALL AND ROOF FAILURE IS EXPECTED. ALL WOOD
FRAMED LOW RISING APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL BE DESTROYED. CONCRETE
BLOCK LOW RISE APARTMENTS WILL SUSTAIN MAJOR DAMAGE...INCLUDING SOME
WALL AND ROOF FAILURE.

HIGH RISE OFFICE AND APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL SWAY DANGEROUSLY...A
FEW TO THE POINT OF TOTAL COLLAPSE. ALL WINDOWS WILL BLOW OUT.

AIRBORNE DEBRIS WILL BE WIDESPREAD...AND MAY INCLUDE HEAVY ITEMS SUCH
AS HOUSEHOLD APPLIANCES AND EVEN LIGHT VEHICLES. SPORT UTILITY VEHICLES
AND LIGHT TRUCKS WILL BE MOVED. THE BLOWN DEBRIS WILL CREATE
ADDITIONAL DESTRUCTION. PERSONS...PETS...AND LIVESTOCK EXPOSED TO THE
WINDS WILL FACE CERTAIN DEATH IF STRUCK.

POWER OUTAGES WILL LAST FOR WEEKS...AS MOST POWER POLES WILL BE DOWN
AND TRANSFORMERS DESTROYED. WATER SHORTAGES WILL MAKE HUMAN SUFFERING
INCREDIBLE BY MODERN STANDARDS.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF NATIVE TREES WILL BE SNAPPED OR UPROOTED. ONLY
THE HEARTIEST WILL REMAIN STANDING...BUT BE TOTALLY DEFOLIATED. FEW
CROPS WILL REMAIN. LIVESTOCK LEFT EXPOSED TO THE WINDS WILL BE
KILLED.

AN INLAND HURRICANE WIND WARNING IS ISSUED WHEN SUSTAINED WINDS NEAR
HURRICANE FORCE...OR FREQUENT GUSTS AT OR ABOVE HURRICANE FORCE...ARE
CERTAIN WITHIN THE NEXT 12 TO 24 HOURS.

ONCE TROPICAL STORM AND HURRICANE FORCE WINDS ONSET...DO NOT VENTURE
OUTSIDE!

edutcher said...

The same standards are going to be applied to The Zero as were applied to Dubya, if not by the state media, then by the people affected, which will be everybody when gas prices go through the roof.

Moreover, this is the problem with an administration full of theoreticians. Cook County's motto always was, "Corruption that works". Daley & company may have been on the take, but the streets were cleared of snow, garbage picked up, etc. That was what differentiated them from the Alinskys - they could solve problems.

When the ultimate worshipper of government can't make government do what government is supposed to do, he and his philosophy are going to be judged accordingly.

Michael said...

Montagne Montaigne: I would expect the country to rally behind Obama if 9/11 happened today. That assumes, of course, that he would condemn it. Or perhaps he would mimic GWB and start blathering about a religion of peace at which point I would say the patience would wear thin.

Seven Machos said...

Garage -- So what? What should Bush have done? What should Obama do?

The point here isn't that Bush's response to Katrina was effective (leaving whether it could have been aside). The point here isn't that Obama's response to this oil spill is effective (leaving whether it could be aside).

The point is that Obama is and will be hoisted on his own petard of competence. Turns out Obama is at least as incompetent as Bush, and in my opinion much more so.

Good luck in November and in 2012. Your side could certainly use it.

Seven Machos said...

Cook County's motto always was, "Corruption that works". Daley & company may have been on the take, but the streets were cleared of snow, garbage picked up, etc.

That's still our motto! Best mayor in America!

Lem said...

The Oil Rig disaster is the closest Obama has come to his most like to ... school yearbook blurb ;)

garage mahal said...

The point is that Obama is and will be hoisted on his own petard of competence. Turns out Obama is at least as incompetent as Bush, and in my opinion much more so.

Good luck in November and in 2012. Your side could certainly use it.


So you would agree that if Republicans don't take one or both chambers of Congress that it would be an unmitigated disaster right?

Seven Machos said...

So you would agree that if Republicans don't take one or both chambers of Congress that it would be an unmitigated disaster right?

I agree that you make stupid, unjustifiable quantum logical leaps all the time. Perhaps it's why you are so often accused of trolling.

Original Mike said...

So you would agree that if Republicans don't take one or both chambers of Congress that it would be an unmitigated disaster right?

Absolutely! If Republicans don't take one or both chambers of Congress it will be an unmitigated disaster for the country.

AC245 said...

For Katrina, Bush was blamed because Democrats like Blanco and Nagin at the state and local government levels failed to follow their official, approved disaster response plans.

And now for Deepwater Horizon, Bush - despite not even being in office! - is blamed because Democrats like Obama at the federal level failed to follow their official, approved disaster response plans.

garage mahal said...

Absolutely! If Republicans don't take one or both chambers of Congress it will be an unmitigated disaster for the country.

Yea if not now, when?

Lem said...

Obama said he was running for president so that "the trust of the government doing whatever it takes" would be restored.

This is the video that will haunt this White House.

Seven Machos said...

Garage -- 1994 through 2006? How about that? How about 75 percent of the last 16 years?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Nobody could have predicted Katrina, and its effects.


Oh Bullshit.

You guys act like Katrina was the first hurricane ever. That a hurricane was a big surprise instead of being predicted and closely watched for days and even weeks before the event. You act like houses were never damaged in any major storms. Or that cities that are build below sea level could actually get freaking WET.

EVERYTHING that happened in Katrina could have and SHOULD have been predicted and prepared for.

The people who live in the area and who have lived there for generations should have been prepared and ready to take care of themselves instead of whining like a bunch of welfare entitlement queens because the government couldn't snap it's (virtual) fingers and wave a magic wand to make it all better.

It isn't like Katrina was their first rodeo.

In the Katrina event, the first responders and people in charge of asking for help were the States and Local officials. In the oil spill, the Federal Government is responsible.

Obama's administration should have been prepared also for the oil leak and instead of polishing his stand up routine, he could of at least shown some interest and leadership.

AC245 said...

Absolutely! If Republicans don't take one or both chambers of Congress it will be an unmitigated disaster for the country.

Republicans last failed to take one or both chambers of Congress four years ago. I think that despite this being a non-Presidential election year, many, many voters will be considering the following questions when casting ballots this November:

"Are you better off now than you were four years ago? Is it easier for you to go and buy things in the stores than it was four years ago? Is there more or less unemployment in the country than there was four years ago? Is America as respected throughout the world as it was? Do you feel that our security is as safe, that we're as strong as we were four years ago? And if you answer all of those questions yes, why then, I think your choice is very obvious as to whom you will vote for. If you don't agree, if you don't think that this course that we've been on for the last four years is what you would like to see us follow for the next four, then I could suggest another choice that you have."

garage mahal said...

If Republicans don't take control after a year of the worst president, and worst congress in history, I would say they are in deep deep trouble.

AC245 said...

s/b "Republicans failed to take one or both chambers of Congress starting four years ago."

Original Mike said...

Actually, my real feelings are more along the lines of:

Absolutely! If Democrats remain in control of both chambers of Congress it will be an unmitigated disaster for the country.

c3 said...

This is hard work

Synova said...

Michael "I would expect the country to rally behind Obama if 9/11 happened today. That assumes, of course, that he would condemn it. Or perhaps he would mimic GWB and start blathering about a religion of peace at which point I would say the patience would wear thin."

What people forget is that the whole purpose of Osama Bin Laden on 9-11 was to ignite a Holy War. We forget that part. We forget what he was trying to do. The *plan* (supported by a certain intemperate political rhetoric in the US and Europe) was to provoke the US into attacking ISLAM, at which point the apathetic would rise up and usher in the Caliphate (or whatever world-wide Islamic dominance is called.)

Bush refused to do that, and his blathering on about the Religion of Peace was to make damn sure that Bin Laden never got his Army.

It might have been enough just to refrain from turning Mecca into a sheet of glass, but why take chances?

Bush's constant "We're not at war with Islam" thing was all about the fact that war with Islam is what Bin Laden wanted and needed.

Rockeye said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rockeye said...

If Obama hasn't already learned to sympathize with GWB (and every other president) by now, then he is hopeless as human beings go. How that sympathy affects his future actions is of course, up to him.
Being president IS hard and his lack of meaningful experience in running any organization larger than a classroom of students has and will continue to hinder him. Over-reliance upon advisers and not keeping your eye on the ball will bite you in the butt every time.
I for instance, now can identify with my liberal friends. I remember when their most strident hope was that GWB wouldn't fuck the country up irrecoverably.

mariner said...

Original Mike:

Absolutely! If Democrats remain in control of both chambers of Congress it will be an unmitigated disaster for the country.

If Democrats remain in control of both houses of Congress, it will be the end of the United States of America as a nominally free country.

HDHouse said...

and Cheney has fled to his super duper top secret double dog dare ya' bunker with a few oil cronies to play dice poker, shoot quail and plan how they can pass their greed off on Obama.

Perhaps some of the elephant minds on here would care to explain how Bush's handling of the aftermath of a hurricane is the same or in any way comparable to the responsibility for handling an oil spill?

OH I GET IT. You guys who want smaller government...federal government that is by nature to do less...now you want it to get out in front of private businesses in cleaning up something that they started? So you are for big government but you aren't for big government.

I get it now.

HDHouse said...

Mr. Obama owes no quarter to Mr. Bush.

Bush's handling of Katrina was a textbook on stupidity, greed, political whim and an "overpowered brain" that obviously had trouble turning off the lights. Katrina was the moment that the American people saw Bush for what he was and is...a pedestrian mind, all hat and no horse.


Mr. Obama is doing everything he can. Every one is - perhaps even BP. But to compare the two events...well that's just insane and it is equally so to compare the reactions...assuming Bush had a neuron that fired in the weeks after Katrina...and the verdict is still out on that.

damikesc said...

HD, Bush had to work with an inept mayor and more inept governor. Obama doesn't. Why the poor response?

Yes, its Bushs fault that NOLA was run by inepts.

Why did Obama ignore plans if he had nothing better in mind?

AC245 said...

Page after page in the PART 300—NATIONAL OIL AND HAZARDOUS SUBSTANCES POLLUTION CONTINGENCY PLAN details the various responsibilities of the federal government in the case of an oil spill.

The article I linked earlier pointed out that the federal government didn't - couldn't! - carry out its own pre-approved response plan.

Maybe Congress ought to refund the $1.6 billion they've confiscated for handling oil spills - at least while Obama is still in office. It can't possibly cost $1.6 billion for Obama to do nothing except blame everyone else for his failure, can it?

jeff said...

"OH I GET IT. You guys who want smaller government...federal government that is by nature to do less...now you want it to get out in front of private businesses in cleaning up something that they started? So you are for big government but you aren't for big government.I get it now. "

No you don't. Or you do but just pretend you don't.



"If 9/11 happened today I'm sure Republicans would put aside partisan differences and rally behind Obama."
of course. Stop projecting. What YOU would do is not necessarily what others would do.

jeff said...

"Perhaps some of the elephant minds on here would care to explain how Bush's handling of the aftermath of a hurricane is the same or in any way comparable to the responsibility for handling an oil spill?"

You really have no idea what actually happened in NO do you?
My response would be it is the local and states responsibility for the hurricane, although the navy and coast guard and the national guard did an exemplary job. OTOH, a off shore oil spill is the feds responsibility and they even had a plan for it, which apparently they blew off.

Your entire argument boils down to Bush-stupid, Omama-smart and it starts and ends there. Considering you are not exactly neutral or non biased or even fact based.......

John Clifford said...

HDHouse, are you for real?

Bush literally BEGGED Nagin to start the evacuation of New Orleans on Saturday. Nagin had refused to take a call from Bush initially, and then after the called dithered another 18 hours before making the decision to start the evacuation. Fortunately many New Orleaneans decided to get out early (mostly the more affluent population).

Nagin also blew it by not moving the City's school buses to the Superdome's above-ground parking facilities. Had he JUST done that, he would have had the vehicles to evacuate everyone in the Superdome in a couple of days, and we wouldn't have had the post-hurricane debacle.

And then Blanco screwed up by deliberately withholding food and water from the people inside the Superdome for several days, in the condescending belief that by doing so she would facilitate voluntarily evacuation. In short, she viewed the Katrina survivors (mostly minorities) as children who had to be manipulated to do the right thing. How racist was that?

So, tell me how Bush failed, when he had the military and Coast Guard doing helicopter rescues within 8 hours of the hurricane's passing?

The real failure here was the failure of the state Democrat leadership, and then the willing co-opting of the media who went along with the Democrat spin that this was all Bush's fault when it wasn't. Maybe that's why Blanco didn't even run for re-election. Certainly she would have gone down to a resounding defeat because the people of Louisiana knew who to blame. Nagin's re-election was, unfortunately, more a statement on how the African-American community views its role in America and how race is becoming a primary factor among that electorate than on how good or bad Nagin was as a mayor... and his latest defeat because without Bush to blame he had to stand on his own dismal record.

Rich B said...

Obama has a reputation for competence?

Sez who? Maybe a rep for buck passing, scapegoating and dissembling.

Eric said...

Mr. Obama is doing everything he can. Every one is - perhaps even BP. But to compare the two events...well that's just insane and it is equally so to compare the reactions...assuming Bush had a neuron that fired in the weeks after Katrina...and the verdict is still out on that.

Drinking that much is bad for you, House. Face it, Bush is a hell of a lot more competent than Obama. You ought to be able to see that by now.

がんこもん said...

The comparisons between Hurricane Katrina and the BP oil spill are misguided. In the first place, Katrina also did enormous damage to Mississippi and Texas - both Republican states and both of which avoided any semblance of what occurred in New Orleans. They also used FEMA as it was designed - a secondary responder.

Now we can argue about who is responsible for events like Katrina, though it seems pretty clear that local and State authorities are responsible for primary response. However, the oil spill took place out at sea, in technically international waters. therefore there is no way any organ EXCEPT the federal government can be held accountable. This is not to suggest that Obama is entirely to blame. It seems that the past three Administrations were asleep at the wheel. However, for a guy who wants to make the federal government the be-all and end-all of power in this country, Obama has not exactly covered himself with glory. Epic FAIL is a more accurate description of his Administration's performance thus far.

The Democrats and the national media were merciless to the Bush Administration. Therefore, I think it only fair that the Obama Administration be judged by the same standard as was Bush. If you are going to dish out the kind of rhetoric the Democrats have been using the past eight years, you better be able to take it. Especially when it is richly deserved.

Methadras said...

It's the oil. The oil wants Obama. He has railed against it for so long it's starting to fight back and it's creeping towards the chocolate city. The oil is Obama's blob. "I'm coming for you, Obama" the oil says while Michelle is in the background giving a blood curdling horror movie scream.

Chase said...

Best line yet:

The incompetence level of the Administration --on almost every issue-- is leaking to the surface like the oil in the Gulf.

HDHouse said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
HDHouse said...

ohmygod...where to start!!

Obama is dealing with a moron Govenor and several moron senators..

Bush didn't beg Nagin to evacuate. Nagin had already issued the order. Bush was in California raising money and playing golf. What part of history don't you understand.

Yes, that is indeed correct. Bush-stupid Obama-smart. Took you long enough to get that right.

Katrina was a disaster that was forecast for days. The aftermath was a foul stench of Republican idiots and a nabob for a president who had, simply put, shit for brains.

You can rewrite history all you want but facts are facts and Bush proved himself to be so utterly incompetent and out of his depth as to make the angels weep.

These are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS and thank God, handled by two different people...one of which is proving to be be both smart and intelligent....one of which we remember as fondly as a bad case of the hives.

Eric said...

These are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS and thank God, handled by two different people...one of which is proving to be be both smart and intelligent....

I agree. It's a shame we can't put him back in office.

garage mahal said...

IT WAS AN INSIDE JOB! TIME TO WAKE UP AMERICA!!!

damikesc said...

That's some impressive falsehoods there, hd.

The spill isn't in LA state waters, so Jindal is a non-issue. I also find it racist that you view him as a racist for no other apparent reason than his skin color.

Bush did ask Nagin and Blanco to evacuate days earlier. Sorry if you didn't follow the story.

Bush did a good job with Katrina once you realize FEMA isn't a first response unit. Which most people know, but you seem to not get.

So, bigot, given that you are incapable of honesty, why should anybody take you seriously? I know idiots find other idiots, brilliant, which explains your Obama infatuation, but its hard to view you as more than a clown.

garage mahal said...

Bush did ask Nagin and Blanco to evacuate days earlier. Sorry if you didn't follow the story.

Bet you can't come up with a cite for "Bush asked Nagin and Blanco to evacuate days earlier". In fact, I know you can't.

Fen said...

"If U.S. officials had followed up on a 1994 response plan for a major Gulf oil spill, it is possible that the spill could have been kept under control and far from land.

The problem: The federal government did not have a single fire boom on hand."

http://blog.al.com/live/2010/05/fire_boom_oil_spill_raines.html


Diversity Hires get by because someone else always picks up their slack.

PatCA said...

This whole episode reiterates what the right wing and sensible people already knew: it is folly to hope and expect DC to come to everyone's rescue for everyone's disasters.

At least in CA we know we are responsible for ourselves in an earthquake, for instance. Kids have an emergency pack at school, and we have them at work and in our cars.

When media and politicians treat us like greedy babies, blowback at failure to save is inevitable.

Jimmy said...

Bush didn't beg Nagin to evacuate. Nagin had already issued the order. Bush was in California raising money and playing golf. What part of history don't you understand.

According to Douglas Brinkley's book on Katrina, "The Deluge..." Bush advised LA governor and NO mayor to issue mandatory evac order and they then did so- NOT before.

newscaper said...

So Jimmy,
Even if your version is true, what the hell were they waiting on *him* for?? It was their people.

Idiots.

Mark said...

The whole thing about those who defend Obama by pointing out that he's no worse than Bush is....

You clowns were so absolutely positively cock-sure-certain that the village idiot would be better than Bush.

Well, that leaves you with two options when it comes to scoring your judgment, now doesn't it?

Patm said...

Obama will never be in sympathy with Bush because the press will never crucify him for this spill as they did Bush.

Methadras said...

HDHouse said...

Katrina was a disaster that was forecast for days. The aftermath was a foul stench of Republican idiots and a nabob for a president who had, simply put, shit for brains.


And this is Bush's fault how, you imbecile? What part of the idiotic welfare state that Louisiana has become under Democrat rule where they all told Gulf facing residents to leave didn't those residents understand? How many times did it take residents of New Orleans to stand around with thumbs up their assess going "oh look it's a hurricane. Let's hang out and watch." when they were told explicitly time and time again to get out and they didn't. And that is Bush's fault too? Your ideology has poisoned your ability to reason even under the sanest of conditions. Your ideology has left you bereft of logic or the ability to comprehend the realities of what really occurred because hatred is your world view. You are insane. Get help and stop trying to inflict your insanity into normal, logical, reasoning discourse.

Matt said...

Of course people died in Katrina due to negligence as well as a slow reaction by FEMA. The oil spill is different. A lot different.

M. Report said...

Katrina / Deepwater Horizon

Act of God / Act of Man

Well...not really:

If the NOLA Govt. had not stolen
money intended to keep the levees
in repair, they would have held.

If the pressure in the oil deposit
had not exceeded the maximum that
BP engineers designed for, and a
multiply redundant fail-safe had
not failed, the oil spill would not
have happened.

Katrina was a man caused disaster;
The DWH failure was caused by Ma
Nature, a Tricksy Witch.

Or, just possibly by a _competent_
saboteur, who intended to expose
Obama as incompetent, as well as
raise the price of oil and oysters.

Pogo said...

Some are born failures, some achieve failure, and some have failure thrust upon them.

Beth said...

If the NOLA Govt. had not stolen
money intended to keep the levees
in repair, they would have held.


The levees failed because of design and construction errors, not maintenance.

Between 30K and 40K out of 450,000 people in the city failed to evacuate. That's not good enough but it's hardly the non-response some of the braying jackasses here depict.

Seven Machos said...

Beth -- At the same time, wouldn't you agree that there is a limited amount of help that the federal government can provide on short notice to a flooded, destroyed city?

Beth said...

Seven, that's too vague. What limits? There's not a yes or no answser to that.

Obama's administration should have learned at least to recognize a disaster in the making, and to be real visible, real quick. It ought to be doing that in Nashville, too.

Beth said...

And Seven, I was responding to some errors of fact. I'm not debating the whole response to the flood thing - hope you don't mind. I'm not up to it; I'm all stuffed full of boiled shrimp - gotta enjoy it while I can.

Slow Joe said...

If the design was completely bad and not able to be maintained, the maintencnece is obviously to rebuild them without the flaws.

And yes, we knew that was necessary a long time ago and the democrats played a pork game with the money. It's not hard to lie about it, but it's still lying. The problems in NOLA were political and local. The response was heroic and amazing, despite the fact that Bush had a lot of idiot cronies who undermined public confidence in his administration (And that's Bush's fault).

Dems always go to this 'it was totally inevitable, even if we had acted responsibly!'. Bullshit. Act responsibly and this stuff doesn't happen nearly as often or badly. We're already hearing the same load of crap about the oil rig.

Seven Machos said...

Beth -- I don't want to re-argue Katrina, either. I just feel the need to point out that blaming Bush for failing to respond adequately to situation utterly beyond his control was silly then and it looks ironically, hypocritically silly now.

Enjoy the deliciousness. I envy you for your food choices. Can't even get decent barbecue here in Chicago, let alone a respectable gumbo.

Beth said...

Slow Joe,

I'm going to pass on arguing, but address just one point: I don't give a crap about Bush's reputation, nor Obama's. But if we don't want every disaster (economic, natural, man-made) to be met over and over with "it's unprecedented! who could have known? nothing could be done!" then we need to hold people accountable. It might make us feel better to think it's the other political party at fault, but when there are years of neglect, then there's just us, no them.

Beth said...

Seven,

So far our seafood is safe. Pray for lots of smarts on the part of the engineers working on ways to stop the flow, and for weather to keep dispersing the oil. If not, then I'll be developing a taste for 'que, I guess.

Can't you get a good steak in Chicago?

Seven Machos said...

There is good steak here, yes. But anybody can cook a steak. We have some great New American restaurants here, too, but there's utterly no regional flair here.

Also, I agree that we need to be prepared for the next emergency. It's been several thousand years of human history. We know what's going to come. However, that's all easier said than done, particularly on a community, state, or federal level.

Beth said...

Seven, I think I know what you mean about regional flair.

I'm envious that all the chef contestants on Top Chef come from NY, LA and Chicago, from the New American cuisine places.

Yet, here, you can get an amazing meal from home kitchens all over town. And it's in large part the availability of ingredients, coupled with the combination of the history of slavery, and of immigration. All those cultures ending up here, along the Gulf and on the river, taking what grows best and making their best food with it.

I have to go back into my turtle shell of denial about this thing - maybe it's still hope, not denial.

I can't think about not making gumbo, or shrimp and andouille jambalaya, a simple oyster stew, roasting oysters over a hot fire on my grill, boiling 5 lbs of shrimp and serving it with homemade remoulade, broiling drum and tuna and redfish, or smashing fat boiled crabs with a beer bottle on a newspaper-covered picnic table.

Damn.

Seven Machos said...

Truly mouth watering. I've got to get down south again soon. Eat a double portion in my honor!

HDHouse said...

Methadras said...
"And this is Bush's fault how, you imbecile? What part of the idiotic welfare state that Louisiana has become under Democrat rule ... stop trying to inflict your insanity into normal, logical, reasoning discourse."

I know you didn't mean to sound so silly and uninformed.

I'm sure the sociological fact will be lost on you but 10% of New Orleans remained in spite of mandatory evacuation orders. That is what happens. 10% of the people have no way out, can't follow directions, want to tough it out, or otherwise don't believe a warning. That is the expected number if it were a hurricane or an atom bomb.

The fact remains Bush was absent and didn't really seem to care or do anything other than raise money, play golf and fly by.

I know facts are tough for you but try them out sometime. You might enjoy life some...or at least understand the world around you.

AC245 said...


The fact remains Bush was absent and didn't really seem to care or do anything other than raise money, play golf and fly by.


That must be why everyone's been so impressed with Obama, with his hands on, at-the-scene handling of the oil spill. Imagine if he'd been jaunting around the country on political fund-raisers, date nights, golf outings, and comedy dinners with the press! The majority of Americans might start comparing the situation to Katrina, and the White House might be in a P.R. 'panic' over the spill.


You sycophants are becoming as boringly predictable and laughably illogical as South Park's Underpants Gnomes:

1. Obama fucks up.
2. ???
3. It's Bush's fault!

Trooper York said...

I don't believe Katrina ever happened. I think it was a fraud just like the moon landings. They just did that to get money from the feds.

I mean they even tryed to tell us that the Saints won the Super Bowl.

Those people in Louisiana are just a big bunch of frauds.

Beth said...

Trooper,

Two Dat.

Have I mentioned...?

Methadras said...

HDHouse said...

I know you didn't mean to sound so silly and uninformed.


You're fucking hopeless. A box of rocks has more political and intellectual acumen than you do at this point. You aren't entitled to your own facts. Your grip on reality is truly nonexistent.

HDHouse said...

Not for nothing but the safety measures for a blow out on this rig were lifted by the Bush administration in the spring of 2008.

So there.

AC245 said...

As predicted:

1. Obama fucks up.
2. ???
3. It's Bush's fault!