May 30, 2010

"My boyfriend is a super cleaner."

"Not only does he clean, but he cooks. Am I turned on by it? Of course. He's taking charge, he's taking responsibility. And that's hot."

So your boyfriend is hot? Yawn! Why is that paired with news of a report from the London School of Economics?
The report, which surveyed 3,500 British couples, reveals that divorce rates are lower when husbands help out with housework, shopping and childcare.
It's unsurprising that the helpfulness in a husband correlates with a successful marriage. But does that mean women find it sexually stimulating? Getting the housework done is good in itself.

Would a man announce that it sexually arouses him when his woman mops the floor? Would he proudly display this attitude in The Daily News, with a photograph like the one at the link? Not unless he also got pleasure out of getting called a sexist.

But the women! The women! Keeping women sexually stimulated seems  another matter entirely. Why is it fodder for a mainstream newspaper that some women say they think it's hot that their men do housework?

Why?
Keeping women sexually stimulated is an important enterprise worthy of investigative reporting.
Getting men to think women find something sexy is a trick to get men to do things.
The point was to lure women readers: women like to read about their own sexuality.

  
pollcode.com free polls

55 comments:

Unemployment said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mark O said...

Cleaning is not nearly so hot as being rich. Ask around.

rhhardin said...

I predict an early divorce.

shoutingthomas said...

Note to foolish young men.

I deliberately limited my commitment at work when my daughters were young, in order to be with them.

Because of my technical skills, I was able to make a good living working three midnights a week. I was home a lot with my kids.

When my daughters grew up, I decided to become ambitious and see where I could go if I really applied myself, worked long hours, and in general committed myself.

In my first job, my manager was a 25 year old girl fresh out of MBA school. Her first words to me on the job:

"I don't want to hold it against you that you're, well, you know..."

"What is it I am?" I asked her.

"You know," she answered. "A loser."

The moral of this story, for foolish young men, is: Don't believe what the bitches say about wanting you to be a sensitive, apron-wearing sissy. They're lying.

Do what you want to do, and ignore the feminist babble.

And, I'm glad I was there for my daughters.

Hagar said...

Men who can clean and cook for themselves are not dependent on you, though.

You should think about this.

The Crack Emcee said...

Ann, you left out the choice of "Women are narcissists".

ShoutingThomas,

You Da Man!

HKatz said...

that divorce rates are lower when husbands help out with housework, shopping and childcare.

I also like how it doesn't allude to some sort of "necessary percentage", like an exacting 50-50 split in domestic responsibility, as these would need to vary depending on what jobs each spouse holds, how much each one is at home, etc.

The article as a whole though is dopey for a few reasons, one being, they have the survey for British couples, but the article is about a handful of women in New York (from whom we get only some anecdotal quotes). It's poor writing and organization in general. And that photograph makes me wince; it's cheesy, contrived, and sexist in a lame way.

(Though I do think that, while housework itself isn't sexy, people can find each other sexy when they observe each other in the course of sweaty, disheveling chores.)

PatHMV said...

Women are turned on by different things than men are. Men aren't turned on by a woman cleaning (not to say we don't expect them to do it, it's just that it's not particularly sexually appealing to us, unless she's cleaning a car while wearing a tight white shirt and short-shorts). Women, well, I'm still not sure exactly what turns them on, but apparently it's me cleaning the house or something.

Moreover, women have known, I'm sure since the beginning of our species, that men are motivated by sex. If a woman rewards her male for cleaning by giving him sex, she will get more cleaning done by the male in the future. The reverse is not true. So when the woman says she is turned on by him doing housework, is she really that physically aroused, or is she saying that to signal to him the reward he can expect for mopping the floor?

Meade said...

Maybe in return she will finally learn to leave the damn toilet seat up.

Oh, and also to pick up her filthy sweaty socks.

edutcher said...

I saw a clip from one of those pseudo-artsy made-in-Europe movies that gets a lot of awards in Hollyweird ever since Hollyweird forgot how to make movies. The husband is watching his wife scrubbing the floor and it reminds him of doing it doggy style.

So, when Ann asks, "It's unsurprising that the helpfulness in a husband correlates with a successful marriage. But does that mean women find it sexually stimulating?", maybe the wife's just thinking of the back-and-forth motion and it turns her on.

A lot of women are motivated by sex, too. They must be.

Look at some of the guys they're with.

Alexandro said...

My quess is the boyfriends are expected to piss sitting down, it fits the pattern.

Franco said...

I wonder what the divorce rates are for couples in which the female sits next to her hubby watching football?

pm317 said...

"Would a man announce that it sexually arouses him when his woman mops the floor? "..and the rest of what you wrote..

See this is precisely the point. When it is such a rarity to find a man who cooks, cleans, or simply assumes equal responsibility for the upkeep and shows he is not above housework, women get aroused by it and people write articles about it. When people stop writing such articles instead yawn and don't ever talking about women getting aroused by men mopping, that is the goal to aspire for.

shoutingthomas: it does not look like that manager learnt anything of value with her MBA. Don't equate one bad apple, with the rest of us. Of course, you/men should do your own thing but hopefully that aids the progress of the women in your life realize their own dreams/potentials (if they want to).

EDH said...

Without too much exaggeration, maybe she so habituated to using her vagina to get what she wants from a man, that when she does get what she wants from a man, in her twisted mind it has to be because she's sexually turned on by the "hotness" of the man, rather simply delivering on the quid pro quo, which would be frowned upon by society.

Oligonicella said...

pm317 --

"a rarity to find a man who cooks, cleans, or simply assumes equal responsibility for the upkeep and shows he is not above housework..."

Is that rarity comparable to the one of finding a woman who can repair, do heavy work, assume economic responsibility and show she's not above treating her SO as equal to herself?

Class factotum said...

Women, well, I'm still not sure exactly what turns them on, but apparently it's me cleaning the house or something.

The cleaning itself is not a turn on, but not having it on one's mind is. The fewer things on the to-do list, the easier it is to concentrate on getting busy.

The Crack Emcee said...

pm317,

"Don't equate one bad apple, with the rest of us."

I'm not trying to change the subject but, every time there's negative observations about women made by men, we get this "one bad apple" bullshit thrown at us. Earth to women:

I've got three foster mothers, a god mother, two foster sisters, several relationships, a long string of conquests and one-night-stands, a 20-year marriage - and a horrendous, ugly, mindfuck of a divorce - under my belt.

I know women - and you can't back away, from yourselves, now.

The best: the conversation with my closest foster sister after my divorce. She said, once she became an adult, all her best friends are men because women can't be trusted. She said they were onions, with layers they never let a man see, no matter how much they loved them. And, if I weren't her brother, I wouldn't know anything about her either.

Of course, there are exceptions, but generally, women are as fake as their made-up faces.

Deal with it. Work on it. Change.

Quayle said...

The full fruit and flower of our enlightened society: all acts and events are spokes around the axle of "hot" sex.

The Crack Emcee said...

Venting now:

Just yesterday, as I was driving home, I was thinking about all the extra shit I did for my wife that went unacknowledged, like picking her up and driving her around at night, because she was blind as a fucking bat - only to have her leave me for a goddamned fool water salesman, who egotistically lies to hypochondriac women in order to make them feel better about worshiping him as a doctor of the future, or some shit.

I had to take my hands off the steering wheel because my black-ass knuckles were turning white.

As the old saying goes: behind every homeless man, muttering to himself, there's a woman.

Or the old joke: why are a million women beat up every year?

Because they don't listen.

Simon Kenton said...

Oligoncella -

"Is that rarity comparable to the one of finding a woman who can repair, do heavy work, assume economic responsibility and show she's not above treating her SO as equal to herself?"

Whack! Once upon a time, I grew tired of hearing what I'd do and not do if I really cared, and said, "If you really cared, you'd do a ring job on that B20B Volvo engine."

She thought this ridiculous, because only women get to define the touchstones for really caring.

Jason (the commenter) said...

I'm going to believe that some women find men cleaning to be a turn on. What kind of woman would feel this way? Someone who likes degrading their sexual partner and finds cleaning humiliating. I imagine these women shit all over the bathroom and force their husbands to clean it up. With a whip in their hands, they scream "You filthy pig!" as they dole out lashes.

As a fetish this makes perfect sense. They are just ashamed to admit the full extent of their feelings, which is why what they do admit to sounds so odd.

pm317 said...

Oli..

Yeah, I agree with your counterpoint but we are not there yet. I would like to use your line after we get rid of the effects of patriarchy from generations (which favors men in the power struggle but has influenced both men and women) and then wonder why women are not doing the things you mention.

The question is whether the society/culture presents enough opportunities now for all the women WHO want to do all those things you mention? What roadblocks are there? I am sure there are many women who don't want the responsibility of being the sole bread winner who taint the outcome for other women who do want to be that.

I think we are asking men to give up their century-old advantage and be less competitive or more accommodating to new competition. I am sure there are men who don't want the rat race and will be happy with a woman bread winner if it becomes a widely acceptable thing but the patriarchal society has something to say about that too.

Well, don't we know all this.. this is getting boring.

Oligonicella said...

pm317 --

"... and then wonder why women are not doing the things you mention."

So, even when women behave in a selfish and other-demeaning manner - it's still men's fault?

Oligonicella said...

pm317 --

"Well, don't we know all this.. this is getting boring."

Bland assertion doth not truth make.

pm317 said...

Well,what is that cliche? -- think globally and act locally. I tell all my nieces to marry a man who would not stand in their way (and before all the men here pounce on me, it is understood that she would not stand in his way either.) One niece and one nephew and one marriage at a time!

Oligonicella said...

pm317 --

"I think we are asking men to give up their century-old advantage and be less competitive or more accommodating to new competition."

In other words, everyone gets a ribbon and trophy.

Oligonicella said...

pm317 --

You're basic argument is that it's OK to treat male partners badly because the perceived 'effects' of discrimination by *other* men still exist?

shoutingthomas said...

Hey Crack,

Whenever I feel that way about women, I remind myself that God gave me my late wife, Myrna.

She was absolutely brilliant, totally loyal...

I know what you mean about awful women. The world is full of them.

Read about Myrna. It will give you hope. She was a beautiful gem.

I thank God every day that He gave her to me, and I ask God every day why He had to take her away.

Fred4Pres said...

A tired wife is less likely to be into lovemaking. Especially if she goes to bed after doing the laundry and ironing.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Everyone's experience is their own and I'm sure there's a bit of what everyone's told here that we all can relate to. But regarding what Crack said, I couldn't help remembering a NYT essay little over a year ago that made one thing (at least) very clear:

The female body always holds the promise, the suggestion of sex” — a suggestion that sends a charge through both men and women. And there was another way, Meana argued, by which the Cirque du Soleil’s offering of more female than male acrobats helped to rivet both genders in the crowd. She, even more than Chivers, emphasized the role of being desired — and of narcissism — in women’s desiring.

Here's a little summary with a cleverly descriptive title all its own.

Fred4Pres said...

shoutingthomas, I am sorry for your loss. I read your post.

HKatz said...

She was a beautiful gem.

I followed the link to what you wrote about her - very beautiful indeed.

pm317 said...

Oli.. No that is certainly not my argument.

I am talking about social change and role reversals with everybody held accountable. But who will drive this change? With men in positions of power and influence in most sphere of our lives, they perhaps bear the burden to open up more opportunities for women. For instance, if it means they have to cook and clean and take care of the children for three nights a week or on demand while their wives go on to do bigger and better things in the real world (we are not talking about a free-loading woman who wants to go shopping), that is what it should be. That is just the home scene, now extrapolate that to the real world.

There is tremendous change going on in India right now. 40% of the IT workforce is women. Part of the motivation for this is that a well educated woman with a nice job is is to marry off (from parents' point of view) but it is also the middle class group think. Whatever it is, it is helping women (and they like it a lot) but not to the full extent because the momentum that gets them to acquire that education and job dissipates after marriage because there is not enough support and the woman ends up making sacrifices for the greater good of the family. You may think, that is India but we are better. Are you/we? Somewhat better but not fully there.

{now, go ahead, pick one sentence out of context in this response and come back with something else..}

prairie wind said...

Though I do think that, while housework itself isn't sexy, people can find each other sexy when they observe each other in the course of sweaty, disheveling chores.

Well, there's this.

Alex said...

Guys let's only look at what turns on hot chicks, not all women.

Xmas said...

Franco,

What men want is a woman that will give him a BJ during football. The sexiest thing a Cheesehead could ever hear is "Go Paaaagghghghgghg-ers!"


(Damn wine is disrupting my filter)

Joan said...

Crack: Of course, there are exceptions, but generally, people are as fake as the faces they show you.

FIFY.

White-knuckle rage => get help.

Oligonicella said...

pm317 --

"Oli"

Presumed closeness. If it's too difficult to type out, double left click and paste.

"With men in positions of power and influence in most sphere of our lives, they perhaps bear the burden to open up more opportunities for women."

Women are in positions of power and influence as well. Perhaps women (like all individuals) bear their own burden to succeed.

It is no longer even the last century. Drop the WS textbooks and catch up. I've known and worked with women VPs, technicians, doctors, governmental officers.... There's hardly a societal effort to suppress women. That's an old and lame mantra now.

I'm not picking any sentences out of context, as your screed is uniform.

Oligonicella said...

To be fair Joan, although Crack is indeed encumbered, his statement is a truth. Neither you, I, nor anyone else is utterly truthful about how we present ourselves to others. It's degree.

Oligonicella said...

pm317 --

You seem to think that there's a "fully there" to get to. We have a number of billions of inhabitants on this globe of ours (sans other species) and you will never in the history of humanity come to a "fully there".

Assuming that you actually *do* wish to get fully there, it'll take movement from both sides simultaneously, not one side waiting passively for the other to give up whatever it is the other side feels they have cornered, which oddly enough seems to always get defined by those feeling unfulfilled in some way.

Your very first post in this thread set the tone of gender contention. Deal with the results without complaining you're somehow being treated unfairly.

Meade said...

"Or the old joke: why are a million women beat up every year?

Because they don't listen."


I don't believe you.

Trooper York said...

I read your post about your wife shoutingthomas and it was a wonderful heartfelt tribute and it really shows how much you loved her.

My wife keeps me grounded and lets me know when I am taking it to far which I know I have a tendancy to do. I don't know what I would do if I lost her.

Thank you for sharing this touching remembrance.

Meade said...

Second Trooper's last comment.

shoutingthomas said...

Thanks for the kind comments about Myrna.

She was a fantastic woman.

We can spend so much time looking for love, and trying to keep hold of love, that we lose sight of how perishable love can be.

Myrna was with me for 18 years, thank God.

You've got to be thankful for the good things that life gives you. I'm so grateful Myrna walked into my life.

Will Cate said...

HE: Do you want me to treat you like a real woman?

SHE: Yes!

HE: Go make me a sandwich.

traditionalguy said...

This whole premise is off-base. The wife being the domestic servant or the husband being the domestic servant are both an abuse of the relationship. They simple need to share the burden on differing days as the schedule permits. That is R E S P E C T, as Aritha Franklin sang about it.

pm317 said...

Oli(whatever), no, not even want to presume any familiarity..

gender contention.. my foot. Men are everywhere running the world and to hold their feet to the fire and having higher expectations is somehow bad!! Wake up and smell the whatever it is, especially if you're a woman. In the US, it gives a false sense of security/confidence because women can easily get an education and a job and have some amount of economic independence. But once you cross a certain threshold, you are going nowhere -- where are the fucking women CEOs, tenured women professors and so on and so on. As soon as women start competing for the choice positions, they are at a disadvantage and sometimes are robbed, why? What was that thing that happened during the Dem primary in 08 that installed the incompetent, inexperienced boob in the WH? A woman with his resume would have been laughed out of the race (especially with a teleprompter and a plagiarizing speechwriter). Well, the fucking thing is that a woman with a lot more experience/intelligence did get robbed out of that race. How is that for gender contention? Wake up and buy some pride and self respect somewhere especially if you're a woman. If you're a man, go and help your wife (if you have one) clean a toilet or change your child's diaper or something.

The Crack Emcee said...

ShoutingThomas,

I read your post when you asked me to link to you - and I almost cried. Like you, I was "married" (I don't know what she was) and it was filled with passion (surprise) declarations of my devotion, and - for me - a singularity of purpose that, today, leaves me feeling like a fool. I rarely say it, here or on my blog, but I love/loved my wife more than I love myself. (I even still worry about her stupid, gullible, ass.) Her betrayal, though, will never leave me. I've had one relationship since my divorce, five years ago, and it felt like I was cheating. I actively dread another.

Joan,

There is no "help". Read pm317's bullshit - that's what's called "help" these days. I went to a psych once, and his bookshelf was filled with so much NewAge bullshit I knew my life was done, and the only thing I could do is keep walking. So I am. And, if you ask me, it's the rest of the world, filled with it's acceptance of the most outrageous and destructive ideas I've ever encountered, that needs "help".

Also, no, there's a very big difference between how men and women interact with the world - not just "people" - and it's no mistake that when feminism came to the fore, women attacked the "male" ideas of loyalty and honor, etc., and we are all worse off for it.

pm317,

Patriarchy=those who built this fucking place, and most of the art, science, medicine, technology, etc., that's in it. Not only couldn't this world have come into being with women in charge but, I know for a fact, I wouldn't want to live it. Hell, I'm practically suicidal on the results of their influence on it already.

If I have a beef against the previous generation of men, it's that they gave in to this tired bullshit without a real (physical) fight: You want it? Take it. That's what they do to each other. It's only because of the fairness of men, and the admiration men hold for women, that that didn't happen.

And your ass is still dissatisfied - which says everything.

Meade,

It's an old joke - with a grain of truth. Sorry I don't write with a bunch of caveats, but I leave the afraid-to-speak-so-I'll-hedge talk to the eggheads.

damikesc said...

Pm, men are shafted in education. Colleges are overwhelmingly female and that is not appearing to change anytime in the foreseeable future. In fact, there is still hand wringing in some circles because they feel women aren't represented enough in a bizarre bastardization of reality.

Waaaah, there aren't enough female CEOs? How many are enough in your eyes? Can you give jus a figure before you stop accusing men of stomping on the fingers of women climbing the ladder?

And why should my five year old and nine month old sons be sacrificed more than they are already being sacrificed in schools? I'm already fighting schools trying to label my 5 yr old as ADHD because its easier to drug a boy than to teach him in a way that holds his interest in any way.

And not to be mean, outside of ignoring her husband's fucking anything with a vagina, in what way was Hillary qualified? She was a first lady who is a champion of feminism due to riding her husbands coattails to everything she ever accomplished. She was and is every inch the inept buffoon her boss is as the bang up job of foreign policy we've had these 16 months show. Hillary, like Obama, is all media creation. You don't need to laughably pimp up the qualifications of legitimately qualified people (you didn't see the press fawning over Rice's actual superiority in intellect).

And, as a heads up, even though I'm the one working in my marriage, I feed my baby at least once a day on my workdays and handle everything in the evening when he wakes up. Who are you to pass judgments on anybody?

Know why most men won't help women? Because women don't respect it. Don't be huffy because men can recognize patterns you clearly cannot.

Almost Ali said...

What The Crack Emcee said. Made my day - a lifetime of serious learning in one shot.

Joe said...

Hurray, yet another article by frigid women for frigid women with the basic premise that they wouldn't be frigid if only....

Translated; it's an article by women with Narcissistic Personality Disorder for others with NPD on how to feed their narcissism with the souls of their husbands.

Methadras said...

Would a man announce that it sexually arouses him when his woman mops the floor?

Yes, if she was in a very short french maids outfit. rawr!!!

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Re: Hillary's riding Bill's coattails... As Dennis Miller said, this was the only option as the front of the garment was frequently occupied...

Oligonicella said...

pm317 --

"where are the fucking women CEOs"

The 16 women who have climbed their way to the top in companies listed in the Standard & Poor's 500 are now outearning their male counterparts, ...

Kinda shoots that narrative in the ass.

"tenured women professors"

You're kidding, right?



"Oli(whatever)"

Got it. Fuck off premenstrual317.

Kev said...

I'm LTTP here, but I had to commend shoutingthomas for a moving essay on Myrna. I'm sorry for your loss while rejoicing that you had her in your life for the time that you did.