January 22, 2010

"The Obama administration has decided to continue to imprison without trials nearly 50 detainees at the Guantánamo Bay military prison in Cuba..."

"... because a high-level task force has concluded that they are too difficult to prosecute but too dangerous to release, an administration official said on Thursday."

Ha.

IN THE COMMENTS: Kent said:
Quick! Somebody help me construct a giant papier-mache Obama head, STAT!

93 comments:

Hoosier Daddy said...

I'm running out of popcorn.

Rialby said...

But but but... Bush = bad. Gitmo = recruiting tool.

Worldview crumbling....

Skyler said...

It would be funny if it weren't so serious. And pathetic.

Kev said...

(the other kev)

I am Kev's complete lack of surprise.

Kev said...

(the other kev)

I bet Air America will be all over this today.

Oh, wait . . .

Roger J. said...

Who knew? well apparently the minority who voted against Mr Obama. As much as I dislike this administration, this is at least the right decision--and as Hoosier mentioned--the circus continues. I will share the popcorn Hoosier if you dont mind.

John said...

But it was a fierce moral urgency to end the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and close down GUITMO? Liberals are going to get no health care reform, no cap and trade, no card check, no end to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and no closing of GUITMO. Just one McHopey stimulus package and a magic Latina on the Supreme Court. There time was certainly "now" alright. It was 1932 all over again. Remember?

rdkraus said...

Gee, what was that dope Bush thinking?

Oh.


Surprising this did not get dumped at 5 PM on Friday.

Dogwood said...

Bet that clue bat really hurt.

SMGalbraith said...

Does this mean he has to return that Nobel Prize?

After all, leftwing European bureaucrats will be mighty upset at this. And that's one of his key constituencies.

In his (partial) defense, McCain said he was going to close Gitmo as well. Neither candidate - on this issue - was exactly exemplars of common sense on the matter. They got stampeded.

kent said...

"Obama Lied, Detainees Cried!"

Quick! Somebody help me construct a giant papier-mache Obama head, STAT!

Palladian said...

It's great watching Obama force his constituents and supporters to continue to play his increasingly painful game of Twister.

"Alright, keeping your left hand on the blue dot in the far left corner, touch the red dot on the far right corner with your left foot..."

Palladian said...

"Quick! Somebody help me construct a giant papier-mache Obama head, STAT!"

They can just paint the Bush heads they currently have in storage a slightly darker shade of pale.

Hoosier Daddy said...

As much as I dislike this administration, this is at least the right decision

Well Roger even a stopped clock is right twice a day ;-)

But I'm already anticipating the response and that's if Bush had never set up Gitmo, this would not be an issue.

Wait for it...

Hoosier Daddy said...

In his (partial) defense, McCain said he was going to close Gitmo as well. Neither candidate - on this issue - was exactly exemplars of common sense on the matter. They got stampeded.

Yep which is why I always felt we were given the choice between a shit sandwich and a shit sandwich with bacon, lettuce and tomato.

Montagne Montaigne said...

Hey kids, let's have another round of defending Gitmo, the same week that it was shown that the guards MURDERED INMATES and made it look like suicide. Gitmo is so awesome. It was so great it wasn't even worth trying to close. It turns out that some of the inmates are actually guilty of stuff! What a vindication. Too bad we tortured them too bad to ever get them prosecuted in our courts, you know, the courts where we try child rapists. Ha ha, Obama WHAT AN IDIOT.

SteveR said...

I came to the same conclusion being neither high level or a force.

Peter V. Bella said...

The boy wonder and Messiah finally smartened up. He has finally done one thing that makes absolute sense. Totally unbelievable!

But what next? What will he do with the detainees now?

BTW, where have all the war protesters gone? Did the wars end and no one told us? How come they are so silent? No Code Pinks or Cindy Sheehans?

Are they on vacation?

Where are all the human rights protesters? Where have Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch been hiding?

It seems they all went mute upon the election of the Savior. Peace on Earth and all that jazz.

Roger J. said...

Hoosier--I take my victories where I can even if it cuts against my grain. Never look a gift horses ass in the mouth :) Looks like there MAY be a couple of adults in this otherwise dismal administration.

John said...

Yes Morty. Some of those people down there are dangerous. They are not just misunderstood brown people. Not just groovy people from the desert. And yes, some of them are dangerous as hell and we are unable to make cases against them using the federal rules that are designed to protect the innocent as much as punish the guilty. Everyone paying attention has known this for years. That Obama probably to. He just knew people like you were too stupid to know any better. So he lied about it.

SMGalbraith said...

Somebody doesn't know the difference between allegations and facts.

If they're interchangeable (hint: they're not), then President Obama was born in Kenya.

No...he....was...not.

vet66 said...

Talk about unraveling like a cheap suit...BHO is like a Looney Tunes cartoon beyond the cliff. Nice job on the banks yesterday as he devalued most portfolios. He doesn't have a clue how to create jobs in his continuous pursuit of large government, entitlement programs and anti-private enterprise he wants to tax into oblivion.

Fortunately, FLOTUS is proud of her country for the first time in her adult life. How is that working out for you?

Robert Cook said...

Of course this is a terrible decision, and further demonstrates that Obama is simply Bush-Redux, (without the phony macho and bellicose rhetoric), the newest member of the War Criminals' Club, as I've already said.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Hey kids, let's have another round of defending Gitmo, the same week that it was shown that the guards MURDERED INMATES and made it look like suicide.

Well if we'd jusy treat them like the Brits put an end to piracy this wouldn't be a problem.

You'll forgive me if I can't get teary eyed over 3 dead jihadists. Lord knows you never shed a tear over any American who ended up having their head sawed off by these animals.

Montagne Montaigne said...

Hey Hoosier Daddy, I actually KNEW people who have been killed by the Taliban. So, you know, go fuck yourself, you presumptuous prick.

I still don't think every Afghan that got sent to Guantanamo is guilty. I actually believe there should be, uhhhhhhh, proof. Asshole.

miller said...

Oh my. I think I am actually happy.

Pogo said...

"I actually believe there should be, uhhhhhhh, proof. "

Then tell your lefty friends in the White House to do exactly that, Monty. I mean, he's your man. It's his decision. He won, remember? What are you bitching at us for?

Roger J. said...

Monty--then all the more reason for putting a 45 in their killers mouth and pulling the trigger--I am expecting however you dont quite have the stomach for that--its Ok to watch nick berg and daniel pearl being beheaded--but somehow not be willing to play the game on the killers level.

I am sorry about any friends you lost at the hands of the taliban--
but sometimes you have to realize these people dont play the game you might like them to play.

but--thats just me--perhaps you convince them that what we have is a failure to communicate

So please take your umbrage and stuff it

Roger J. said...

And Monty--you are a gutless little prick who doesnt have the stones to play the game thats being played--when you grow a set by all means get in the game--until then--go fuck yourself

Bob From Ohio said...

"I still don't think every Afghan that got sent to Guantanamo is guilty. "

Me neither. Good thing they weren't Afghans, but Arabs.

Paul Zrimsek said...

Bet that clue bat really hurt.

The fierce urgency of OW!

Peter V. Bella said...

I still don't think every Afghan that got sent to Guantanamo is guilty. I actually believe there should be, uhhhhhhh, proof. Asshole.

You should have stopped at the first four words.

TMink said...

Montagne, did they switch your medicine this week? I suggest they switch it back.

Trey

Montagne Montaigne said...

Gutless, huh. Yep, it really takes guts to kill people that are already in your custody and control. Kind of like killing your own children or pets. Real guts.

The gung ho conservatives are little children playing G.I. Joe in their minds.

Does it matter at all to you that we've released the majority of the people that were held at Guantanamo (that means that most of them were innocent)? That prisoners in American custody have been beaten to death at Bagram?

Do you understand that just because an Afghan is taken prisoner by Pakistani intelligence agents and handed to US troops, that person is not automatically guilty of something? That for you to exercise your juvenile, barbaric notions of revenge it might be good to see if the person actually did something (like behead Daniel Pearl)? That all Afghans and Pakistanis aren't collectively guilty of Jihad against Jesus Christ and Arby's and all you hold dear?

Is there anyone there?

p.s. my friend worked in Afghanistan to help protect the people of that country from terrorists. he actually cared about the people there. crazy, right?

Pogo said...

"That all Afghans and Pakistanis aren't collectively guilty of Jihad "

We'll remember that advice, if anyone ever actually makes that claim.
Thx.

TMink said...

Sadly, the Obama administration is an object lesson in the failure of affirmative action. It is not that he is black that he is a failure, obviously, it is that he is unqualified and was elected because he is black. Skin color is just a worthless selection criteria.

Trey

Roger J. said...

You know monty--yes gutless
I wont tell you how many men and friends I lost in the service of our country--so spare me your mindless bleatings--and you stay safe at home not putting your sorry ass on the line. good luck with that argument son.
Again--go fuck yourself

Montagne Montaigne said...

Roger J.-- I'm glad you have such fast internet access, out there on the front lines. Good luck to you, and remember to duck.

John said...

"Does it matter at all to you that we've released the majority of the people that were held at Guantanamo (that means that most of them were innocent)? That prisoners in American custody have been beaten to death at Bagram?"

And many of them have returned to terrorism killing scores of people. They were not all innocent. Those people are dead now so people like you can feel better. But hey, that is what progressiveism is all about right?
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/05/26/gitmo.recidivism/index.html

Fred4Pres said...

Andrew Sullivan gets a chubby over Iraq sliding into chaos again:

Tom Ricks gets an e-mail from a friend in Iraq:

"I’m afraid things are coming to a tipping point here. If the Chalabi-Iranian faction succeeds in keeping those 15 pro-Alawi Sunni parties off the ballot all bets are off. I can see a Shiia-on-Shiia civil war (with the Sunnis backing the Alawi faction) or a military coup as real possibilities. At this point, the best thing to happen would be to postpone the election. If they go ahead toward March the way they are heading, all bets are off. I don’t think Washington is fully engaged with Haiti and Afghan distracting them. A lot of bad vibes here."

I fear my belief that the surge failed is being borne out by events. Even worse, you know what the GOP is about to do: blame Obama for the failure they set up. It’s their new line: everything we screwed up over eight years is Obama’s fault. Blame him. Re-elect us.


Hmmm, Sullivan is almost as committed to seeing the surge fail as he is to proving that Trig is Sarah Palin’s grandson. Sullivan wants failure to in Iraq. He has been writing how the surge would fail before the surge, how the surge would fail during the surge, and how the surge would fail since. Now it is some grand plot by Republicans (jeeze if they are so friggin smart how come they are not running things?) to blame Obama, of course Obama has zero influence over Iraq over the last year.

And I suppose this decision is all Bush's fault too. Obama's hands are tied. I am so sick of the double standard on the left when it comes to fighting al Qaeda.

Roger J. said...

Ah Monty you douchbag--given my age I cant serve although I would if the army would let me

As for my combat cred? a purple heart, two silver stars and three bronze stars--so little man--try again. you are a pathetic little puke--and yeah--fast internet access is good--let me know when you enlist

Tibore said...

"Hey Hoosier Daddy, I actually KNEW people who have been killed by the Taliban."

So? How's that supposed to absolve you of the fact that you're more concerned about painting the US as bad over acknowledging that many inmates there - many of whom were captured in combat - are dangerous? You're not the only one who's had people suffer at the hands of Islamic radicals, and your viewpoint is not superior. Take your own advice and fuck yourself, you presumptuous asshole. You are way more guilty of arrogant presumption than Hoosier Daddy combined with the rest of us are.

Joe said...

Uh Monty, many people at “Gitmo” are guilty of NOTHING! You do realize this, right? They committed no crime. Just like McCain committed no crime, just like Kurt Vonnegut committed no crime. Just like 250,000 Germans committed no crime (from 1943-45). But all were still imprisoned. They were PoW’s…it’s NOT a crime to fight for the Taliban, it’s not a crime to be a member of the 55th Brigade (Al Qaida’s regular combat unit in Afghanistan), or to bomb North Vietnam, or to fight in the Ardennes, or to be a member of the Deutsches Afrika Korps. All these people were imprisoned, because they were combatants, and to release them, prior to cessation of hostilities, would have been stupid in the extreme. Because to release them is to see them later on ANOTHER battlefield. So, no many of the folks at Gitmo NEVER need to see a court, they need only be captured waging war against US/Afghan forces….

Why this simple point is so difficult to grasp is beyond me. No crime has been committed, ergo no trial is required…..Just because you’re behind barbed wire doesn’t mean you’re a criminal.

Tibore said...

"Does it matter at all to you that we've released the majority of the people that were held at Guantanamo (that means that most of them were innocent)?"

Innocent... Which explains why many have been recaptured in combat. Along with their peers from their first stint as combatants. http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/05/26/gitmo.recidivism/index.html. This is something you chose to ignore.

"p.s. my friend worked in Afghanistan to help protect the people of that country from terrorists. he actually cared about the people there. crazy, right?"

Once again, how does his laudable actions justify your assholery? He's a good person; you are not.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Hey Hoosier Daddy, I actually KNEW people who have been killed by the Taliban. So, you know, go fuck yourself, you presumptuous prick.

You first pal. I'd believe you if you perhaps showed perhaps even 1% of the same level of outrage over jihadist atrocities as you do over every real or imagined slight over the followers of the religion of peace where you take off the gloves to denounce how evil we are. So take our faux outrage somewhere else chum, I'm not impressed.

Michael said...

Montagne:

I was not aware that the three terrorists who were subjected to waterboarding were at Gitmo. I thought the waterboarding occurred elsewhere on those three.

As to the allegations that three Gitmo detainees were murdered I cannot understand why the Obama administration relentlessly refuses to pursue this further. Could it be that the administration continues with the heartless renditions and murder camps that it condemned the hideous GWB for? I mean, after all, one here and there is one thing but three? All at once, all in the same place and all in the double secret part of the torture camp that Obama refuses to close.

Roger J. said...

ahh Monty--the only presumptious prick in the room is you--tell you what son--go earn your red badge of courage and come back and talk to us

Tibore said...

What Rojer J said. While you're at it, go apologize to your friends for resting your laurels on their achievements.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Hey Monty, have the guards who murdered the three poor terrorists been formally charged, tried and found guilty? Is there...oh whats the word...proof?

I mean you insist on it for the poor jihadists but as I said, you take the guilt as a given when it comes to our guys. Bet ya believed we were flushing the Koran down the shitter too.

Robert Cook said...

Hoosier said:

"You'll forgive me if I can't get teary eyed over 3 dead jihadists."

Of course you have no knowledge of whether they were jihadists at all, or merely hapless innocents kidnapped and sold to the American forces by warlords looking for bounty. And of course you don't care because you approve of murder.

And:

"Lord knows you never shed a tear over any American who ended up having their head sawed off by these animals."

Of course you have no idea how Montagne felt about that, and it is irrelevant besides. As John McCain quite succinctly put it: "It's now about who they are; it's about who we are." If there's anything to this myth of American exceptionalism, it is that we (supposedly) afford all persons due process of law and we do not subject any persons held prisoner by us to cruel treatment.

But you don't care about that, because you support sadism and cruelty before we commit murder.

John said:

"And many of (the Gitmo prisoners who have been released) have returned to terrorism killing scores of people."

This, of course, is an allegation that is backed up by little or no supporting evidence. The government has thrown out various numbers of those who supposedly "returned to terrorism," and we know our government never lies, don't we? There may have been many, some, or none of the released Gitmo prisoners who have "returned to terrorism," but we do not know, and you certainly don't.

And, did it occur to you that previously innocent men held by us without charge and subjected to abuse for years might, upon release, be so filled with rage that if they did take up fighting against America it might be as a result of their abuse at our hands...that we may have created men ready to fight against us?

But you don't care either, because that would disturb your blissfully ignorant acceptance of propaganda in support of the American Imperium.

Robert Cook said...

"As to the allegations that three Gitmo detainees were murdered I cannot understand why the Obama administration relentlessly refuses to pursue this further. Could it be that the administration continues with the heartless renditions and murder camps that it condemned the hideous GWB for?"

Yes.

Roger J. said...

hey cookie--that obama thing hasnt worked out all that well for you has it

traditionalguy said...

That those 50 are in custody at all is truly Bush's fault. Mr Holder would have given them pre-trial diversion jobs with SIEU if he had been there in 2001.

Hoosier Daddy said...

hey cookie--that obama thing hasnt worked out all that well for you has it

Cookie never was an Obama supporter. He takes the comfortable position that the US is a an evil empire no matter who runs it.

Pogo said...

I suspect Cook cried at Avatar.
Heaven, at last!

Hoosier Daddy said...

Of course you have no idea how Montagne felt about that, and it is irrelevant besides.

Well I have a pretty good idea since the only time he or you or Freder or the other usual suspects crawl out in the sunlight is to denounce something we did or allegedly did.

Sorry but when I hear nothing but excuses for inhuman behavior from the religion of peace, I don't have to look much farther to see whose side they're on.

Roger J. said...

if I may--i have dumped on monty because its like the smell of napalm in the morning--and it also a lot of fun

As to the policy implications, I do think its important to recognize that there are some in the administration that recognize these terrorists we hold in Guantanamo are genuinely dangerous to our national security--my default position I stated earlier--but if it means I dont have to expend a round of 45 ACP into them OK

so lets hold them--I do not advocate torturing them (although personally I would sign on for that job)--when and if we complete our crusade agaist islamaists we might consider what to do with them

in the interim--lets keep them confined, entertained and otherwise out of the current conflict

Joe said...

This, of course, is an allegation that is backed up by little or no supporting evidence.

-Except a number of dead bodies and body parts recovered from various terrorist attacks, plus that video of the two fellows from Yemen who planned the Crotch Bomber Attack, I mean beyond that you’re correct no evidence whatsoever….

The government has thrown out various numbers of those who supposedly "returned to terrorism," and we know our government never lies, don't we?

-Ah the old, “EVERYONE knows the gub’mint lies”/paranoia approach…an excellent choice when the facts are thin…let you use the logical retort….”And we know that Code Pink and the opponents of the war NEVER lie, don’t we?”

There may have been many, some, or none of the released Gitmo prisoners who have "returned to terrorism," but we do not know, and you certainly don't.

-Well actually we DO, because we have their bodies and or their videos….

Logic, evidence, reason and argumentation are not your strong suite are they Bob?

Robert Cook said...

"hey cookie--that obama thing hasnt worked out all that well for you has it"

Well, given that I never voted for or supported Obama, his "thing" not working out comes as no surprise to me.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Of course you have no idea how Montagne felt about that, and it is irrelevant besides.

Yes Cookie keep beating that American imperium drum. Yeah that same imperium that is spending hunderds of millions of dollars and using its evil military to provide aid to Hati.

Yeah Cookie, thanks for reminding me what a bunch of bastards we are.

Roger J. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Roger J. said...

apologies to Mr Cook for misrepresenting his position

andrew said...

Robert Cook:

Where have you been? His "thing" works just fine as he seems to be hell bent on screwing each and every one of us.

Oxbay said...

It's like voting Present.

SMGalbraith said...

'Yeah that same imperium that is spending hunderds of millions of dollars and using its evil military to provide aid to Hati.'

Well, we're going into Haiti to take it over. Because, y'know, we want to spend hundreds of millions for such a terrific asset to add to the American Empire.

Beside there's oil there. Or minerals. Or something that the evil corporations can exploit.

Cheap labor. They'll come up with some economic argument on why the country is evil.

PatCA said...

This smacks of "splitting the baby." People will die at the hands of those released.

Peter V. Bella said...

SMG,
You must have read the long screed that disgraced former US Congresswoman McKinney wrote. According to her we are going to Haiti to occupy it. It has obtainium, which is vital to our nation. :-)

edutcher said...

The recidivist rate for these creeps is something like 1 in 3, after all. What's changed here, in all probability, is that somebody told Barry that he could end up like those people on 9/11 that Donald Rumsfeld tried to save in the burning rubble of the Pentagon. I doubt there are very many adults in this administration, but they value their pampered lives just like the hoi and the polloi.

The same thing happened when Willie was FOTUS after OK City. Concrete barriers went up faster than you could say, "midnight mission to Moscow".

WV "spignein" When Der Fuhrer wants no spigs.

SMGalbraith said...

Haiti, the Jewel in the Crown of the American Empire.

Y'know, even Michael Moore and Oliver Stone won't believe this one.

At least until we get another Republican president. When that happens, all bets are off the table.

Michael said...

Robert Cook: "The American Imperium" What an outstanding term!! Longer than "wingnut" but much more smarty pants than "Nazi" or one of the less thoughtful epithets the left is so proud of using. Well done. My 13 year old son has a teacher that explains how the West "imperialized" various locales. You might take that non-word in as additional ammo in your scathing vocabulary. He, my 13 year old, finds the usage especially amusing and has adopted it himself.

But why fling insults at the right when it is the current administration holding these "detainees" indefinitely? It is the current administration turning a blind eye to the murders at Gitmo, the current administration that has refused to stop renditions.

Robert Cook said...

"But why fling insults at the right when it is the current administration holding these 'detainees' indefinitely? It is the current administration turning a blind eye to the murders at Gitmo, the current administration that has refused to stop renditions."

Where am I flinging (accurate charges) at "the right." Of course it is the current administration holding these prisoners indefinitely and without charge, as did the previous administration, and of course it is this administration turning a blind eye to allegations of murder of prisoners at Gitmo by their keepers. This administration joins the previous one as a criminal administration, and Obama joins Bush in the War Criminals' Club.

bagoh20 said...

What's sad is that so many actually think this is the wrong decision. On the other hand, what could possible change that would allow them to be freed. There will be no surrender in this jihad. When they get to be elderly they will be the perfect suicide bombers. Maybe we could sell them to Libya for oil deals. What if they convert to Christianity, like Mormons maybe?

Roger J. said...

Mr Cook--you do get points for consistency--thanks for that.

bagoh20 said...

I'm curious: If a citizen were to attempt to blow up a school and got caught, but with insufficient evidence for a trial. And while in custody continued to vow to blow up schools if released, would he be able to be detained indefinitely?

Hoosier Daddy said...

What if they convert to Christianity, like Mormons maybe?

Well if they converted to Christianity then the lefties would definitely be on board to go to war with them.

Joe said...

No Bag...BUT if he promised to have sex with the unde-age children, he could be held indefinitely, at least until he was judged, "No longer a predator."

michaele said...

I am glad that Obama is having to make these kind of hard, reality based decisions. Talk and outrage was so much easier as a candidate and a 1 out of 100 senators.
It's good that Obama won for reasons like this but I wish his term was only for 2 years.

bagoh20 said...

"It's good that Obama won for reasons like this but I wish his term was only for 2 years."

I assume that by "reasons" you mean lying or being stupid enough to believe he could do such things. I think those are reasons he got elected, but they are very bad reasons.

DrSquid said...

That just does it! That just rips it! That's it man, I'm going this very day to join Al-Qaeda in Kentucky!

Patm said...

The Democrat party needs to apologize to Bush for the unending crap they gave him about this -and about a host of other issues that were "constitution shredding" and "evil" under Bush but have become perfectly alright under Obama.

The PRESS needs to apologize to Bush, too. In fact, the whole freaking country needs to effing well APOLOGIZE TO PRESIDENT BUSH for the crap they pretended to give him on this.

Bush was a grown up, a visionary and a PRESIDENT.

I am so tired of the fake fool we have in the WH and his posse of ivy-league geniuses who have never run so much as a lemonade stand or met a payroll.

Richard Dolan said...

Team O seems to be composed of some slow learners. But at least they are making progress, bit by painful bit. Perhaps if the Dems get hit over the head with a 2X4 in the mid-terms, Team O will pick up the pace at which they are starting to learn what it means to govern.

Michael said...

Robert Cook:

Then why not get some people together who are of like mind and go to Washington and make some signs and walk around chanting slogans, hopefully with a catchy lilt, against the current war criminal in the WH? Why not a citizen's arrest? Go with your gut on this one.

Fen said...

Great, our Affirmative Action Admit will take 3 years to learn what Bush already knew.

Worst. President. Ever.

Fen said...

Does it matter at all to you that we've released the majority of the people that were held at Guantanamo (that means that most of them were innocent)?

No, it does not mean they were innocent.

bagoh20 said...

"No, it does not mean they were innocent."

and many quickly became innocent again with bloody results.

Methadras said...

The great thing about being an empty suit of a president is, is that you don't have to worry about how far or how deep that emptiness goes.

Freeman Hunt said...

/marking calendar

Obama does something I like.

Kind of makes him a liar or whatever, but better that, I think, than a foolhardy President who would release such people.

Freeman Hunt said...

"Heh," Bush said.

Cedarford said...

In war, there is generally no such thing as innocent or guilty. There is a small category of "war criminals" - but 99% of the killing and destruction is done by non-criminal soldiers and all that is enabled through the hard work of non-criminal enemy civilians supplying them with the necessities to wage war.

This is one of the most fatuous beliefs - or warping of the mind due to ingorance of what war is and enemies are - that the Lefties currently entertain. That war can be sorted out and resolved only by prosecutors, defense lawyers, and juries determining the guilt or innocence of US Marines, Taliban wives, radical Islamist preachers, Western leaders, US civilians, the Zionists, US taxpayers, and Danish cartoonists. All by two dramatically different legal systems and codes - that Lefties believe - if only the lawyers are good enough - the two systems will agree and peace will break out all over the world. One being a rational Western or Asian system and laws arising from it, the other Koranic and the laws of Sharia.

And somehow, an Islamist fighter and his pals will "learn and accept the infidel due process system and decide not to fight anymore - if only we use civilian criminal trials".

There are enemy and there are allies. There are combatants and non-combatants. There are no "innocent civilians" just as there is nothing in the act of bearing arms serving your people that makes a combatant (on either side) a "guilty" criminal.

Generally, in the past, insistence that the opposition are criminals to be tried in civilian court was the mark of totalitarian regimes or colonialist forces that tried to use "Rule of Law!!!" as a tool of repressing independence movements.

We see this tool most recently at work in Israel and China - where all resistance is branded as a civilian criminal act. A Tibetan who fights against Han Settlers taking his land is a criminal. A Palestinian who resists against armed Israeli Settlers backed by the Israeli Army expropriating his family compound in E Jerusalem is only committing crimes - and if not shot in "legitimate defense of returning soil to the children of Zion" - must be tried and convicted in a "fair impartial criminal cour"t manned only by Jews - of civilian criminal acts and imprisoned.

Bush helped make this meme as well. As have previous American leaders that say "We must listen to the World's Experts on Terrorism - Our Special Friends!. All-Wise Israelis tell us all Muslim resistors and combatants are to be de-legitimized and treated as criminals. "All insurgents=terrorists=civilian criminals ...who must be found guilty or innocent in a court!"

Now, this strategy worked well in Party Line Soviet Courts, German Courts under FueherPrincip, even All-Jewish civilian courts of law hapless Palestinians "criminally violating curfew on non-Jews" were dragged into.
It can't work well in the US where Lefties insist that dangerous enemy be "convicted of crimes like bank robbers are". Because many things a dangerous enemy does - scouting, testing security, collecting open intelligence such as blueprints of prominent US buildings, videotaping security deployments at airports, doing dry runs, practicing at US gun ranges ---are meant to further the enemy cause but not in and of themselves "civilian criminal in nature".

Truth is an enemy must be fought by rules of war, not rules of criminal statutes formed outside war. The enemy - combatants and non-combatants alike must suffer. Combatants captured locked up, non-combatants denied use of bridges, having the war factory they work at blown up, even targeted if they are in or near a valid enemy military force or facility.

Cedarford said...

Montgne illustrates Lefty cluelessness perfectly:

Montagne Montaigne said...
Hey Hoosier Daddy, I actually KNEW people who have been killed by the Taliban. So, you know, go fuck yourself, you presumptuous prick.

I still don't think every Afghan that got sent to Guantanamo is guilty. I actually believe there should be, uhhhhhhh, proof. Asshole.


1. Lefty claim as usual to the experiential..."I personally knew Taliban victims!!" Unlikely, but allows the Lefty to claim what he thinks is the Moral High Ground.
2. Followed by the same-o, same-o Alinsky tactic of demonizing the people the Lefty disagrees with..Cussing is a typical tool of debate.
3. Attempting to frame all hostility directed at US citizens in a construct of innocence or guilt where all enemy must be presumed innocent unless "lawyers agree otherwise in civilian courts"...subject to endless appeals - naturally.
4. Restating there must be "proof of individual enemy violating some peacetime civilian laws". Despite the obvious fact that 99% of the 250,000 dangerous Nazis we held indefinitely were not able to be convicted of anything.
Ignoring that most civilian criminal acts - rape, stealing - are accepted across cultures. You serve time for stealing in Pakistan, Americans would consider you a convicted thief if you somehow got here. But they would consider an OSS saboteur who did to the Japs in China what the Islamoids did on 9/11 - a hero.
5. Always throw in Lefty condescention and implication that any who disagrees with a Lefty are either stupid or in need of the state correcting their education to eliminate "wrong thinking".
6. Always close with more Alinskyite cursing..as political enemies of the Left are unlike actual Islamoid enemy....It is cool to target, trash, and try to destroy the power or livelihood of such threats to progressivism outside the courts..which of course have always been banked on as tools and enforcers of progressivism on the masses since the days of Robespierre, the Jacobins, the Jewish Bolsheviks, the Chicom "People's Justice Councils".

mccullough said...

Won't this be a recruiting tool to radicalize those would-be jihadists?

David said...

Yeah, but Bush did this without the recommendation of a commission. That was really a bad thing to do. I'm surprised that no one sees the difference.

Methadras said...

President Barely is nothing more than an empty suit that is frankly projecting has academia onto the body politic. What did we as a voting public expect from a man, who really hasn't held a meaningful job in his life, went to a privileged public school in Hawaii, inhaled his way though college only to become a professorial mouthpiece for his own leftist aggrandizing? To further punctuate this non-starter of a politician, he had the audacity to sit in front of an anti-American sermonizer for 20 years absorbing his conspiratorial nonsense on the downtrodden state of the black man, even though he is the Zebra-in-Chief, regurgitating that into his 'skinny kid' speech at the DNC convention in 2004, only to be put up at the last minute as a senatorial candidate in that year against a the sexually scandalized disgraced excuse for an Illinois senator? Pete Fitzgerald left the race with 6 weeks left only to have the RNC put up Alan Keyes as his opponent to the tune of $45 million dollars making it the most expensive senate race in history on a guy no one knew about. He wins, stays a senator for just under two years, does absolutely dick while as a junior senator from the corrupt state of Illinois, and then all of a sudden says, "Hey, I think I can run for POTUS." Seriously? And he wins and we are all mollified and shocked, SHOCKED, that this man has been swinging his incompetence around like a large instrument of doom? Are we surprised by this? He doesn't know what to do? Look at his nonsense with Gitmo, "I'm going to close it within a year. Oh wait." He is incapable of relating to anyone outside of his elite circles. Look at the Massachusetts race ending in a Senator-Elect Brown and look at how this president scoffed and looked down his nose at how Senator-Elect Brown drove a truck. Wow. This is all you've got in telling us, "Hey, don't vote for this guy because he's a republican and a truck driver?" and we are shocked that this is the best he can do. Man, talk about kiss of death. Even the mafia make good on their promises.

What you are seeing is the veil being lifted on this liar and fraud. Even as unlikable, for many, as Bush was, you knew that he meant what he said, that he wasn't lying to you, but rather what he was saying was something you just didn't like. This president doesn't even understand what he's doing, he has been completely incapable of keeping a single pledge or promise he made on the campaign trail and he's still going around the world telling the global citizenry how sorry he is for this countries past while making himself relevant as he tries to proclaim how irrelevant America should become. And we have to endure 3 more years of this? He's making Jimmy Carter look competent. Oh, and let's just wait until double-digit inflation and 10%+ interest rates begin anew after the mother-load of inflation hits from his aberrant spending spree couched as a take-over of private industry kicks in. If you people that this man is a moron now, just you wait and let's see how he handles this upcoming crisis, which makes me wonder how his Little Emmanuel is going to deal with it too. If he resigned at his State of the Union speech, I would gain respect for him. Dude, just admit you aren't cut for this job and move on. Oh no, is that Joe Biden sharpening his oratory skills in the wings?