September 19, 2009

"Yes, it was fun this week to watch the teabaggers complain how the media underestimated the size of their march..."

"... 'How can you say there were only 60,000 of us? We filled the entire mall!' Yes, because you're fat. One whale fills the tank at Sea World, that doesn't make it a crowd."

Bill Maher is trying to be funny as he propounds a "New Rule" and says: "You can't complain about health care reform if you're not willing to reform your own health." Note that he's not saying that liberals aren't fat too — and I think they are — just: You can't complain about health care reform if you're not willing to reform your own health.

217 comments:

1 – 200 of 217   Newer›   Newest»
SMGalbraith said...

You can't complain about health care reform if you're not willing to reform your own health.

Sort of a corollary to the chickenhawk charge, i.e., you can't be in favor of military action unless you (or a family member) served in the armed forces.

Whatever happened to that argument?

Oh yeah, the election of Barack Obama.

Jason (the commenter) said...

You can't complain about health care reform if you're not willing to reform your own health.

Does he mean things like not being able to stop smoking, or taking your kids out to eat fatty food?

Stephen Snell said...

No, Jason, he means he's a malicious idiot and he can't articulate an intelligent argument.

Old Dad said...

My guess is that Maher has severe dental problems, given the filth that comes out of his mouth. Of course, megahalitosis, and verbal diarrhea often have a deeper cause, soul-rot being the most common.

Ergo, the cost to the Republic for fixing Maher's mouth is priceless.

Dark Eden said...

Liberals sure do love to make rules on who is allowed to disagree with them.

Henry said...

I would think that fat people opposed to health care reform should be respected for their obvious altruism.

lucid said...

Yes, the most striking thing about liberals like Bill Maher is how much they like to control and devalue othjer people. Obama and Pelosi are also instances of this.

SMGalbraith said...

You can't complain about health care reform if you're not willing to reform your own health.

Whatever happened to Maher's repeated complaint that the loathsome American people always wanted free stuff and didn't want to pay for it?

He really is quite daft.

Synova said...

There is no prerequisite for dissent or free speech.

(Just spent too much time making that point)

ddh said...

You can't complain about health care reform if you're not willing to reform your own health.

Maybe you shouldn't argue for health care reform if you're not willing to observe the rules of logic.

Paul Zrimsek said...

Sorry, Bill. We'll try to do more coke in the future.

Henry said...

Like the chickenhawk argument this is a claim that refutes itself. Just as military people were more likely to support GWOT objectives, healthy people are more likely to question health care reform.

Healthy people are the last group that needs reform. All the health insurance proposals on the table pay for themselves by forcing healthy people to buy coverage they don't need.

Joseph N. Welch said...

Don't worry, teabaggers! According to Althouse, every one of you equals at 33 people!

How else to explain the miraculous conversion from 60,000 to the absurd 2,000,000 number that the innumerate professor endorsed.

Jason (the commenter) said...

Joseph N. Welch: Don't worry, teabaggers!

Name calling doesn't work if you don't have anyone else's respect, it just make you look bad.

Flexo said...

Who is Bill Maher?

Jason (the commenter) said...

I think the teabaggers have been so effective that the word isn't even derogatory any more. It's actually kind of provincial to try using it in such a manner.

Revenant said...

That "New Rule" isn't even interesting enough to merit a rebuttal.

Pogo said...

""You can't complain about health care reform if you're not willing to reform your own health." "

Let he who is without illness, cast the first stone.

I want to see Maher's health records before he can complain.

Jason (the commenter) said...

Flexo: Who is Bill Maher?

A Liberal comedian who finds humor in disenfranchising people. He's like the opposite of Rush; he has a reputation for being intelligent but when you listen to him you hear all sorts of crude and evil things.

Paul Zrimsek said...

Why are we only hearing about the New Rule now? Didn't Sicko come out like two years ago?

Bruce Hayden said...

How else to explain the miraculous conversion from 60,000 to the absurd 2,000,000 number that the innumerate professor endorsed.

Keep dreaming.

Jason (the commenter) said...

First they came for the fat people, but I didn't speak up because I wasn't fat...

Shanna said...

I think the teabaggers have been so effective that the word isn't even derogatory any more. It's actually kind of provincial to try using it in such a manner.

It could have something to do with more people across the US knowing that the words "tea bag" mean "bag of tea" and being rather ill informed about the slang version. And if they do know about the slang version, they know anyone who is joking about it is being vulgar and should not be taken seriously.

Bruce Hayden said...

Sort of a corollary to the chickenhawk charge, i.e., you can't be in favor of military action unless you (or a family member) served in the armed forces.

Not really, as others have pointed out. The absurdity of Maher's argument is that the one has almost nothing to do with the other. The healthy will get hurt because they will pay more. The unhealthy with insurance with get hurt because they won't get as much health care. The uninsured who don't need insurance will probably get hurt the worst. Not very many left.

Just Lurking said...

Maher used to do a show called "Politically Incorrect" where he was railing against the establishment and speaking truth to power while sticking it to the man, and whatever other happy horseshit lefties like to say when they think they are being revolutionary.

Now he bravely stands alongside those in the establishment who mock dissenters. He used to tell jokes. Now he IS the joke.

AJ Lynch said...

I have been meaning to cancel my HBO just because Maher is such an despicable ass. Thanks for this reminder Althouse.

Lem said...

If criticizing Obama is racist then criticizing fat people must be some version of hatred too.

Just saying ;)

SMGalbraith said...

Not really, as others have pointed out

Well, the chickenhawk argument posits that you have to be personally willing to make a sacrifice if you favor military action. And Maher is saying if you oppose reform you have to be in favor of making a sacrifice yourself.

So, combining the two: If you favor position "A" (military action/oppose reform) you must make sacrifice "B" (join the military/get healthy).

Otherwise, apparently, you have no credibility.

Yeah, this is way too much analysis of this goofy standard he is proposing.

Lem said...

You can't 'complain' about health care reform if you're not willing to reform your own health.

Wait a minute.. I red that again (i cant believe i missed it) and it sounds like a proposal to curtail free speech.

What a bozo.

madawaskan said...

Pogo-

I want to see Maher's health records before he can complain.

Why the hell? His mental state is pretty obvious.

It's gonna take a whole lotta tax dollars to put Maher outta his misery.

Unless-Obama has some plan to do that on the cheap.

edutcher said...

Most of the Tea Partiers looked to be in pretty good shape to me. Maher, on the other hand, is showing the mileage.

In any case, if you want to see bad looking protesters, check out some of the lefty rallies, especially in SF.

(After Breasts Not Bombs, I've come to prefer bombs)

EDH said...

Old & Fat People

Old people got no reason
Old people got no reason
Old people got no reason to live

They need lots of drugs...
new hips...
after fallin' down just a couple of steps

They need...
pacemakers
the cost is out of sight
I give them a pain pill and just say goodbye

We got
no hips for old people
too many old people
we'll just give old people some pills

(we need to watch our costs and they're unproductive)

Old people are just the same as you and I...
Their cost is sky high...
All men are brothers
But it's time they die...
it's a wondeful plan

Fat people got big bodies
fat people got big bodies
fat people got big bodies and baaaaaad luck

They don't exercise
they move too slow
they got heart disease and cholesterol

They'll need those expensive machines that go beep beep beep
Hospital tests that don't come cheap
Gonna tax every single thing they eat
Every greasy bag of chips...every single treat

Cause I don't want no fat people
Can't help out those people
We're gonna ra-tion their health care

(But-but-but don't worry, because if you're on the federal plan...you're not going to be forced into any thing like what I'm gonna give those people...because you're valuable...and I'm also part of that plan.)

SMGalbraith said...

You can't be against vouchers unless you send your children to public schools.

Hey Bill, if by some very odd circumstance you read this, you can steal that line.

Go ahead. Run with it.

Yeah, it's not original but you still have my permission.

jayne_cobb said...

So is he still calling himself a libertarian?

Because it was the only part of his schtick that actually made me laugh.

miller said...

I'm sorry, but how is it that Bill Maher has the authority to lecture anyone about what's right or wrong?

Slow Joe said...

It seems like far more people on the left are complaining about the 2 million claim (a claim the left invented to set up difficult goalposts).

No one really knows how many showed, but since the fire department put 70,000 on one street at 9:45 AM (before anyone got there), and later estimates put half a million on a single street, and photos (yes, actual photos of the correct event) show an obviously massive turnout, then all we really know is that those claiming there were only 70,000 are aggressively dishonest.

I've heard people say that because ridership on the metro was only up 150k, that's the entire 70,000 riding two ways, end of story. As if you can't offload a bus or park within a couple miles of the mall, or use a hotel. Are these people serious? It was a saturday in a city where hundreds of thousands of people drive to work.

2 million? Can't prove there weren't that many, but that's obviously very unlikely. 1 million? totally reasonable. 70,000? only the most twisted hater of this movement would buy that.

madawaskan said...

Maher's pontification for some reason reminds me of this crappy article-

High Heels Won't Help Achieve High Ambitions

The article isn't to clearly - but I'm guessing that they passed some resolution over there that said women should not be required to wear high heels at their places of work.

Some of the rational being this-

So I called the Society of Chiropodists and Podiatrists, which tabled the motion, to ask if it was inspired by members constantly getting earache from Vogue staffers or Stringfellows hostesses sick of their professional uniform code. The pleasant man said, er, no, but was I aware that the NHS spends £10 million a year on bunion correction alone? Yes, quite.

Cedarford said...

Shanna - It could have something to do with more people across the US knowing that the words "tea bag" mean "bag of tea" and being rather ill informed about the slang version. And if they do know about the slang version, they know anyone who is joking about it is being vulgar and should not be taken seriously.

I think you may be right. People are taking it and making it a non-negative. Much as young blacks reappropriated the word nigger.

Then again it might just be they have elected to deny the trendy vulgar in favor of the traditional meaning. Many at the rallies have brought teabags as a symbol. One guy I know proudly calls himself a teabagger, knows the other meaning, but insists it is just the "faggot version of the word for faggots rubbing their nuts on one anothers faces". In his world, by his reasoning, people like Bill Mahre that use it as a smirky negative, just show what "faggots" they actually are.

madawaskan said...

edit:*the article isn't too clear*

Gah! I hate it when that happens.

Lem said...

And another thing.. the idea that the reasoning, the soundness of an idea rest solely on how many people show up at a rally is utterly ridiculous.

I mean if that is the case gays will probably never get to serve in military... fill in the cause.

Chip Ahoy said...

Saturnine, but illogical. I can sobe against reforming my own health and against government socializing healthcare for the purpose of getting their grubby little mitts further into my pocket and limiting my choices and service. Averring otherwise is nonsense, Silly.

As it is, I'm for improving my own health without restructuring the entire system through government, of all things.

Always such a bitter mean-spirited comedian.

paul a'barge said...

no single group of Americans are more overweight than African-Americans.

And so few of them are Republicans that it's astounding.

SMGalbraith said...

In addition to this breaking news that Bill Maher is an ass comes news that the child of John Edward's mistress was, indeed, fathered by him.

We'll just have to pick ourselves up off the floor and continue with our lives.

madawaskan said...

I think the whole issue is that basically the Liberals hate the middle class.

You can be filthy stinking rich, and you can feel guilty about the poor, or better yet just be the low downtrodden that believes their money somehow makes them superior.

Right?

Basically the myth being that somehow because Maher made it -there is something "special" about him. Well, maybe-some are transfixed by him like a train wreck.

What bothers them most about Tea Party protesters-is that they dare to dream- that they can make it. That and they aren't wearing the latest fad or the de rigueur uniform of the Liberal depressed swathed in the preferred ombre shadow shades of black, grey and mud.

Revenant said...

How else to explain the miraculous conversion from 60,000 to the absurd 2,000,000 number that the innumerate professor endorsed.

The 60,000 count is as ridiculous as the 2,000,000 count (which, let's remember, was first put forth by Democrats). The sensible estimates place the crowd size in the half-million range, give or take 150,000. It was a little bigger than the "million man march", which clocked in at 400,000.

madawaskan said...

They actually were the garish red, white and blue-proud to be American hues!

The humanity!

rhhardin said...

Imus seems to have Bill Maher characterized, Sept 22, 2001 real audio .

Laura(southernxyl) said...

"You can't complain about health care reform if you're not willing to reform your own health."

I'm trying to even make this be logical.

I can see it if he was telling people who WANT health care reform not to talk about reforming health care on the national scale until they reform their own health. That actually makes some kind of sense.

Chip Ahoy said...

Speaking of fat, I am amazed.

My dining room chairs are built for huge fat arses. It's ridiculous. Two or three normal weight people can fit on one.

Yesterday two young rather obese women were in my apartment for a few hours helping assemble hors d'oeuvres (along with five other people off and on). They were both delightful. But I noticed, one of the girls took up one and a half chairs. For a while, not the whole time. While in the kitchen, little else would fit, but we managed. I thought silently and expressionlessly, "Bloody wow."

What impressed me most, though, neither one knew aught about what they were doing. You'd think being that big, they would be quite knowledgeable about food preparation but that was not the case. They needed and accepted instruction on the simplest things, and it was a pleasure to give it. Mistakes were made, dumb ones too, but I just chalked all that up to inexperience.

This concludes my current anecdote regarding heavyweight amazement.

Oh yeah, Maher. Ha ha ha, he used to be funny until one day he decided to play only to a specific audience. The tea-bag trope is an indicator one is flailing for funny but coming up short. "Tea-bagger, tea-bagger, tea-bagger," clever me.

Jason (the commenter) said...

Cedarford: I think you may be right. People are taking it and making it a non-negative.

Derogatory words for a group don't have any power when everyone accepts a group. At most they annoy people because they seem rude.

Of course some people still use them, specifically for the purpose of rudeness. They're kind of like people who cuss in front of children or yell at old people. No pride in themselves whatsoever.

lucid said...

well, if you can't be fat and talk about health reform, at least that takes Frank Rich and Joe Klein out of the debate.

lucid said...

oh yeah--and we shouldn't hear another oink out of Michael Moore.

Lem said...

Then Bill Maher (about a minute into the video)

I'm much more of a "free speech" person..

And now Bill Maher

You can't complain about health care reform if you're not willing to reform your own health.

Will the real Bill Maher please stand up.

Paul said...

I am telling you, I was there and it wasn't even close to 2,000,000. There was a lot of people maybe 100,000, I'd say - about 1/25 of the number of people here for the inagueration. But, these people did have an amazing sense of their own self worth - it was comical.

David said...

Maher's right. Shut up, Michael Moore!

Jason (the commenter) said...

madawaskan: I think the whole issue is that basically the Liberals hate the middle class.

I think they are obsessed with status and how they fit into a Liberal hierarchy. One way to fit into the hierarchy is to believe in the "right" things. But I'm sure even among true believers they are constantly grading each other based on who went to the best school, who reads the right books, who has the most minority friends, etc..

I've gotten used to how involved with a type of "good old boys club" the Liberal people I meet are.

Jason (the commenter) said...

Paul : But, these people did have an amazing sense of their own self worth - it was comical.

Well, I wasn't there, but they are all heroes to me. So perhaps that sense of self-worth isn't entirely misplaced. I know I value them.

jayne_cobb said...

@Shanna,

Actually for the apolitical under 30 crowd (read 90% of them) teabagging is more likely to be seen as a reference to the Halo Series

madawaskan said...

I second Jason's opinion-

I know I value them.

Some of us were trying to figure out how to get there, time wise, cost wise-we couldn't do it.

When you consider that the Washington D.C. area is something like 80% registered Democrat-the crowd looked pretty damn impressive to me.

The effort they made to be there-makes them worth their weight in gold.

[wv:merit-I kid you -not.]

ricpic said...

The Park Service (or Parks and Recreation, not sure which) estimated 1.2 million. Given that the Park Service is as about non-partisan as you can get, doesn't that make liberals - who keep denying the size of the turnout - look reality challenged? Who knows, pretty soon they'll be - with any luck - a laughingstock.

rhhardin said...

Tyranny.

rhhardin said...

John and Ken diagnose Liberals sure do love to make rules

Podcast here, starting at 3:53.

John says it's a personality disorder. Control freaks run homeowners associations, school boards, and on up.

KFI 9/18 4pm hour.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

""You can't complain about health care reform if you're not willing to reform your own health."

Just another version of SHUT UP from the left. When you have no logical arguments or reasonable facts....just like most teenagers they shout SHUT UP!!

Guess what Bill? I can complain about any damned thing I want.

I may not be a comedian, but I can complain about your lack of funny.

Alex said...

Every time a liberal uses the word "teabagger" they lose another swing voter back to the GOP. Keep it up left-tards.

Lem said...

Your yard sale may be illegal.

kentuckyliz said...

Those people aren't fat, they are environmentalists.

They are sequestering carbon.

Old Dad said...

Said another way:

You can't complain about wealth care reform unless you're willing to reform our own wealth.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Its a shame guys like Patrick Swayze go out so young and a POS like Maher continues to waste oxygen.

Zachary Paul Sire said...

What Maher was doing was pointing out the silliness of fat teabaggers complaining about health care reform. It's called irony. No serious person actually believes that Maher is suggesting the teabaggers literally be censored.

Not that I'm surprised at any of the reactions here, though. Same stuff in every thread. You guys are nothing if not reliable.

Alex said...

Zach - keep saying the nasty word over and over again. You keep losing swing voters to the GOP every time Maher does it. I hope Maher says "teabagger" every single day and multiple times.

Jason (the commenter) said...

Hoosier Daddy:Its a shame guys like Patrick Swayze go out so young and a POS like Maher continues to waste oxygen.

I'm glad people like Maher are around, he does an excellent job of discrediting Liberal. Anyone who says hateful things is showing a lack of control and helping the other side.

Old Dad said...

ZPS,

What Maher did not explain is why fat, studly, or anorexic tea baggers should not be opposed to the government controlling their health care.

I'm amused that you still post here. I guess your unique brand of irony is so sophisticated that even vous don't get it.

Jason (the commenter) said...

Zachary Paul Sire: What Maher was doing was pointing out the silliness of fat teabaggers complaining about health care reform. It's called irony. No serious person actually believes that Maher is suggesting the teabaggers literally be censored.

It feeds into negative stereotypes about Liberals, that they look down upon, and feel superior to, people who disagree with them.

And I have to wonder, with more and more people becoming overweight in this country every day, if Liberals aren't shooting themselves in the foot by demonizing them.

Bruce Hayden said...

What Maher was doing was pointing out the silliness of fat teabaggers complaining about health care reform. It's called irony. No serious person actually believes that Maher is suggesting the teabaggers literally be censored.

Not sure of the irony of what Maher said. Maybe you should jump in and help those less fortunate than yourself understand the humor.

Most of the definitions I have found of "irony" are somewhat like this: "the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning: the irony of her reply, “How nice!” when I said I had to work all weekend."

Irony would thus mean that Maher was actually saying that it is just fine if people complain about ObamaCare when they aren't willing to reform their own health. And, I don't think that is what was meant.

Rather, I think that Ann hit it fairly well, the humor was supposedly in overweight protesters protesting health care reform. And, I don't think that is irony, but am not quite sure what type of humor I think that is, maybe because it comes across for me more like a school yard taunt than anything.

But we are open to having our meager abilities to understand humor enhanced through application of your superior intelligence and wit. So, please explain to those of us less fortunate, why what Maher said was ironic, and why it was funny.

Hoosier Daddy said...

You guys are nothing if not reliable.

And you're the same shrill little drama queen which means the universe loves consistency.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

What Maher was doing was pointing out the silliness of fat teabaggers complaining about health care reform

What Maher was doing was trying to obfuscate and deflect the point of the Tea Party movement.

This is what you do when you are losing big time the original argument.

The Tea Party movement is about the overreaching of government and that the so called health care reform proposed by Obama and the socialistic that may not be necessary for real reform. It is also about the socialism and power grab that Obama is proposing that ISN'T health care reform. It is about losing our fundamental freedoms and being plowed under by the mindless and ever growing Federal Governmental robo reaming pocket picking life sucking black hole.

So sure you can make it about some people whining about health care reform.....oooooohhh loook over there a squirrel ....when it is about fundamental freedoms.

Maher et al. Can't make a real valid point so they must make up tangential points.

Bad debating technique. They get a C-

Hoosier Daddy said...

I'm glad people like Maher are around, he does an excellent job of discrediting Liberal.

Perhaps but I think most liberals are deaf, dumb and blind to what contemporary liberalism stands for. If the last 40 years of disastorous liberal policies aren't discrediting enough I don't know what is.

Heck, Medicare- bankrupt in less than 10 years, Medicaid- same. Then we have the wonderful VA system along with Schip and for some reason liberals think a government that has brought us to a national debt of $11 trillion and another $68 trillion in unfunded liabilities can successfully implement a public option health plan. They can't successfully run the ones they have now.

I mean how fucking dumb does one have to be?

SMGalbraith said...

I did not think that liberals or progressives would blow things this quickly.

It's a loss for the nation, really, because liberals have done so much in making this a better and fairer country. And they have more to offer for us. Or, at least, to discuss and debate.

Liberals I say, not the left.

Now for the left....good riddance.

jayne_cobb said...

By coincidence I was checking the Activity Pit (red eye fan board) and came across a video of Greg Gutfeld being interviewed by Reason TV.

Anyway, he pretty much sums up my feelings regarding Bill Maher:

It's at 8:50

(although the entire thing is worth a view.)

garage mahal said...

There were only two real bonafide liberals. Ever! Zell Miller and Scoop Jackson. The rest? Cuckoo cuckooo.

Jason (the commenter) said...

Hoosier Daddy: Perhaps but I think most liberals are deaf, dumb and blind to what contemporary liberalism stands for.

Most people aren't Liberals; and they're the kind of people who can get pissed off by Maher's attitude.

Worry about the people in the middle. Don't worry about Liberals, they're main intellectual tool seems to be threats of ostracism for nonconformity. They're stuck in the '50s.

Cyndu said...

What Maher did not explain is why fat, studly, or anorexic tea baggers should not be opposed to the government controlling their health care.

Exactly the point.

If you reduce Maher's words down to the basic logic, it is that you shouldn't complain about the threats of a bully unless you were willing to voluntarily do what the bully was going to force you to do.

And this merits a TV show?

Alex said...

garage doesn't know the meaning of the word liberal. They've so perverted its original definition. They claim to be open-minded like the classical liberals, but in fact are anything but. They prove it every time they post on this blog.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/correlation-between-obesity-and-poverty-health-people-2010-should-increase-attention-those-poverty-14046.html

Among racial and ethnic groups for whom data are available, the trend toward increasing obesity is most pronounced for adult black females (50 percent of whom were obese in 1999–2000, up from 38 percent in 1988–1994) and for adult Mexican American females (40 percent of whom were obese in 1999–2000, compared with 35 percent in 1988–1994)

Now which demographic out of all US demographics had the highest pro-Obama vote?

White men-41%
White women-46%
Black men-95%
Black women-96%

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#USP00p1

Now I don't mean to disparage black women, and I don't even mean to disparage Obama voters (you know who you are, Professor), but I do mean to disparage Bill Maher who can't open his mouth without something hateful escaping.

You know the old expression, Bill, "it's funny because it's true"? You don't? Oh.

Alex said...

Anyone notice from the garage types that post here that they never are courteous or respectful to anyone who doesn't share their ideology? It's always ad hominems, insults and put-downs. You have to wonder what it takes to get a basic level of respect from that crowd.

Alex said...

So according to Bill Maher, you can't even TALK about health care reform if you don't have a body fat % under....

Alex said...

With all the fat-bashing going on the Huffer thread, you would think they're all a bunch of Adonis-types. Somehow I imagine they're not.

Jason (the commenter) said...

Alex: You have to wonder what it takes to get a basic level of respect from that crowd.

In person I'm sure they control themselves and it probably frustrates the heck out of them.

Alex said...

I guess we should count our blessing in the United States. We just insult each other, in other countries they kill each other over disagreements(see India, Middle East).

Freeman Hunt said...

A man doesn't get to be the physical specimen that is Bill Maher without having high standards.

Alex said...

Freeman - I'm sure Bill Maher is utterly ripped and has 6-pack abs underneath that suit. He just is too modest to show us.

Zachary Paul Sire said...

So, please explain to those of us less fortunate, why what Maher said was ironic, and why it was funny.


I never said that what Maher said was ironic or funny. I do think that he was pointing out irony, insofar as fat people (whether or not all of the teabaggers are fat is debatable, but Maher is arguing that they are) complaining about health care when they are so obviously doomed by their own poor health is ironic.

Then again, maybe these fat people are fully aware that they are fat and going to die because of it, and they hate health care not just for them but for everyone, in which case I'm wrong and there is no irony. Just a bunch of slobs.

montana urban legend said...

Ah, let's see. A quote from the beginning and one ninety-some odd comments in:

"Liberals sure do love to make rules on who is allowed to disagree with them."

Either that or they just love pointing out the hypocrisy of fools.

"A man doesn't get to be the physical specimen that is Bill Maher without having high standards."

Perhaps Freeman has seen more of Maher naked than I or anyone else has. Because her comment seems to mistake the culture of obsessive body sculpting with the simple attention to healthy diet that Maher advocates.

More conservative confusion of brawn with brains. How banal.

Lem said...

A man doesn't get to be the physical specimen that is Bill Maher without having high standards.

Zing!

Alex said...

Because her comment seems to mistake the culture of obsessive body sculpting with the simple attention to healthy diet that Maher advocates.

No, what she's saying is that Bill Maher has no right to dictate how healthy people have to be according to HIS standards. Fat acceptance baby!

Dogwood said...

You have to wonder what it takes to get a basic level of respect from that crowd.

Embrace their worldview.

Cyndu said...

Because her comment seems to mistake the culture of obsessive body sculpting with the simple attention to healthy diet that Maher advocates.

So Montana, by your and Maher's logic, criticism of Obama's plans from Mitt Romney must exceed the validity of your dissent because Mitt lives by a religiously motivated, but statistically validated health code.

montana urban legend said...

Fat acceptance baby!

So what is this, the new teabagger slogan? Are you afraid government will tax the size of your ass cheeks?

Alex said...

Embrace their worldview.

Funny I never made that a requirement to give a person a basic level of respect.

Dogwood said...

Funny I never made that a requirement to give a person a basic level of respect.

Neither have I.

daubiere said...

according to his blog zachary writes copy for gay pornographic magazines and also seems to have serious medical problems himself. care to tell us how you justify promotion of "free health care" while working for companies that promote and increase promiscuity and unsafe sexual practices? is it right to expect us taxpayers to fund your dangerous irresponsible lifestyle? now thats irony!

and also how much will your continuing medical problems cost the national health service?

montana urban legend said...

So Montana, by your and Maher's logic, criticism of Obama's plans from Mitt Romney must exceed the validity of your dissent because Mitt lives by a religiously motivated, but statistically validated health code.

Who the hell cares about Mitt Romney?! And what does his faux-trageous dissent have to do with the faux-trageous dissent of Glenn Beck's army of idiots? Oh yeah, other than the fact that in any other year, Romney might have had a platform for being a spokesperson for some kind of reform?

I'm surprised you mention him, given what he did in Massachusetts. Is he actually relevant to any bloviating on a simple joke or does the attempt at pretzel logic serve no purpose other than distraction?

Maguro said...

I do think that he was pointing out irony, insofar as fat people...complaining about health care when they are so obviously doomed by their own poor health is ironic.

You and Maher think it's ironic because you take for granted that Obamacare will make everyone healthier. Take away that questionable premise and the "joke" doesn't make any sense at all.

Jason (the commenter) said...

ZPS: What Maher was doing was pointing out the silliness of fat teabaggers complaining about health care reform. It's called irony.

ZPS Later: I never said that what Maher said was ironic or funny.

It's easy to be confused, the way you are writing.

...they hate health care not just for them but for everyone...

First off, the teabaggers are against unsustainable government spending, among other things. I'm pretty sure no one there was protesting against health care, perhaps the Democrat's version of health care reform, but not health care.

I can see why you are so ready to demonize these people because you seem to have no idea what they talking about. I urge you to listen a little more, perhaps to different sources than you usually do, and not be so quick to assume people who don't agree with you are insane.

Alex said...

MUL:

So what is this, the new teabagger slogan? Are you afraid government will tax the size of your ass cheeks?

Actually I'm not a heffer, but I know for a fact that FA people are 99% left-wing.

daubiere said...

did rush limbaugh get thin in order to fill the new "fat people may not criticise" requirement for "free" speech?

John Thacker said...

I do think that he was pointing out irony, insofar as fat people...complaining about health care when they are so obviously doomed by their own poor health is ironic.

But surely this would apply to fat people who favor health care reform too, right? "Don't blame the US health care system for high health care spending if you're not willing to do your part and get in shape" or some crap like that? Or just "Don't try to reform the entire country's health system if you're not willing to reform your own health."

montana urban legend said...

daubiere seems to believe she has personal knowledge of the STD status of ZPS's amour(s) that he must, somehow, either lack or not care to know. She also seems to have personal knowledge of just how much latex does or does not exist between Zach and these other objects of her interest.

Wondering how you pull that off from thousands of miles away over the ethernet, daubiere.

montana urban legend said...

Actually I'm not a heffer, but I know for a fact that FA people are 99% left-wing.

Not on the National Mall last weekend they weren't.

Jason (the commenter) said...

montana urban legend: So what is this, the new teabagger slogan? Are you afraid government will tax the size of your ass cheeks?

Keep on attacking fat people. If thin Americans are a dying breed, then so is any ideology which rejects fat people.

Fat people, I think you're sexy!

daubiere said...

by your logic why do you assume that overweight people are necessarily unhealthy mul?

Alex said...

Not on the National Mall last weekend they weren't.

As if you have stats to prove how many heffers were in the crowd as a %. I bet on the whole there are as many heffers among lefties and righties. If you think the fat-bashing card will gain you anything you're wrong.

Rialby said...

On this great blog, some comments defend,
Some counter-argue 'til the end.
Of course some are droll
but if you want a troll
there's Montana Urban Legend.

WV: hotox - too easy

Alex said...

Jason - it's just bad politics to attack fat people when 70% of Americans are overweight and 33% are obese. I think the thin Manhattan crowd is projecting again.

montana urban legend said...

by your logic why do you assume that overweight people are necessarily unhealthy mul?

They're not necessarily always unhealthy but they do contribute the majority of health problems in industrialized countries, as well as the costs.

madawaskan said...

Are you afraid government will tax the size of your ass cheeks?

Aren't we all just resting peacefully knowing that Liberals are in charge of diplomacy?

Why just yesterday Zbigniew of Brzezinski fame was wondering out loud if we should not -perhaps-shoot down Israeli AF jets..

If supposedly Republicans are "the know-nothing party" -

Liberals definitely are -"the know it all party."

You can just guess which ex-President appointed Zbigniew Nation Security Advisor.
.
.
.
.
.
Jimmy Carter.

montana urban legend said...

Keep on attacking fat people. If thin Americans are a dying breed, then so is any ideology which rejects fat people.

Not if they can't reproduce fast enough. Have you ever tried to get it on with someone morbidly obese? I imagine it must be very difficult to fuck someone that fat.

Jason (the commenter) said...

Since we are talking irony: how can Obama promote health care reform when he smokes and lets his kids go out and eat fatty food?

Wouldn't Maher's rule keep Obama from participating in the health care debate?

montana urban legend said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Alex said...

They're not necessarily always unhealthy but they do contribute the majority of health problems in industrialized countries, as well as the costs.

Because leftie sex addicts and sky divers aren't a cost on the medical system.

montana urban legend said...

As if you have stats to prove how many heffers were in the crowd as a %. I bet on the whole there are as many heffers among lefties and righties. If you think the fat-bashing card will gain you anything you're wrong.

See, here's where conservatives display their ignorance of how factions really work. Maher's got his own crowd. Most of them are probably not fat or, if they are, probably don't mind being called out on their hypocrisy. And he's based in Southern California, where looks rule, and obesity isn't cool.

Other entertainers might get the horizontally challenged. Jay Leno, perhaps? But he's a friend of Maher's (and therefore a conspirator in the world-wide Socialist Leftist movement) so it's all good.

Synova said...

And yet, MUL, you malodorous buffoon, any measure of reproduction taking into account fatness will undoubtedly show that fat people reproduce just as much as anyone else, 1200 pound health network specials aside.

People generally put on most of their weight after they have children.

montana urban legend said...

Because leftie sex addicts and sky divers aren't a cost on the medical system.

Not to the degree that fatasses are.

Do you guys not see how much more and more desperate and ridiculous your arguments are getting. Perhaps you really are progressives, of a sort.

montana urban legend said...

Also, George Herbert Walker Bush loves his skydiving.

I'm sure he could pressure the GOP into making sure that you don't attempt to take it away from him, or from any other God-fearing Americun.

Alex said...

MUL - since I'm not a heffer what motivation do I have to defend them? I'm simply sticking up for one's freedom to become a staggering fat ass. That's the last freedom we have left in America!

Lem said...

We are beating Markakis Orioles 11 to 3.. its a rout

Jason (the commenter) said...

montana urban legend: See, here's where conservatives display their ignorance of how factions really work. Maher's got his own crowd. Most of them are probably not fat or, if they are, probably don't mind being called out on their hypocrisy.

And yet we're talking about what he said here, and they're talking about it on other places around the internet, outside of Maher's crowd.

Alex said...

MUL - if one can't be a heffer without being hounded by the likes of the new lefty Gestapo, life just isn't worth living.

montana urban legend said...

MUL - since I'm not a heffer what motivation do I have to defend them?

Ummmm.... I dunno. A political one?

Listen, people have an abstract right to get as fat as they want. I just think it's hilarious that when we talk about the costs to this nation of something, of any f'ing thing, the lengths you guys go to to defend gluttony, largesse, self-aggrandizement, and other forms of selfish, self-defeating idiocy are consistently staggering.

madawaskan said...

Here are the direct quotes from Zbigniew in his interview with The Daily Beast-

DB: How aggressive can Obama be in insisting to the Israelis that a military strike might be in America’s worst interest?

Brzezinski: We are not exactly impotent little babies. They have to fly over our airspace in Iraq. Are we just going to sit there and watch?

DB: What if they fly over anyway?

Brzezinski: Well, we have to be serious about denying them that right. That means a denial where you aren’t just saying it. If they fly over, you go up and confront them. They have the choice of turning back or not. No one wishes for this but it could be a Liberty in reverse.


[from: Michael Goldfarb The Blog at Weekly Standard]

Liberty in reverse?

LoafingOaf said...

I caught part of Bill Maher's show this week. It was strange seeing Jeffrey Toobin - who is supposed to be a serious legal analyist - saying his serious comment on the Tea Party protest while referring to them as "teabaggers" - an obscene sexual term. His decision to use that term only served to expose him as a silly man pretending to be a serious commentator.

It was also strange to see David Cross talking about hateful speech while at the same time calling people "retards". And seeing Bill Maher patting Jimmy Carter on the back for suggesting most people who oppose Obama's policies are racist, without mentioning that Jimmy Carter has been far more credibly accused of anti-Semitism than opponants of Obamacare are being accused of being racists.

montana urban legend said...

It's like the "personal responsibility" argument goes out the window any time we talk about how the costs wind up accruing to anyone other than the person in question.

And I know why. It forces you to accept that there are multiple factors that figure into affecting the course of someone's behavior. And you can't stand acknowledging that. To do so would be, you know, socialist.

It would also be a simple acceptance of reality that need not be tied to the arguments of how best to remedy such ills.

Quayle said...


I'm surprised you mention him, given what he did in Massachusetts. Is he actually relevant to any bloviating on a simple joke or does the attempt at pretzel logic serve no purpose other than distraction?


What?

I'm sorry, what did you say?

montana urban legend said...

The Tea Party-Goers were the first to describe themselves as "teabaggers".

montana urban legend said...

What?

I'm sorry, what did you say?


Ribbit... ribbit. Look, a blue frog!

Quayle said...

m.u.l., did you ask a question?

Alex said...

MUL - actually it was the left who started using "teabaggers". Dont' recall who launched the first verbal grenade, but it was def a lefty.

Alex said...

and MUL descends into total immaturity, illustrative of the Daily Kos crowd.

Dogwood said...

Liberty in reverse?

The USS Liberty.

montana urban legend said...

Dont' recall who launched the first verbal grenade, but it was def a lefty.

If that's the case, (and I doubt it is), the tea people (or whatever the heck you call them) certainly took to the term like a blue tree frog to South American rain forests.

And that's fucking hilarious.

Christopher said...

ZPS sputtered:

"Not that I'm surprised at any of the reactions here, though. Same stuff in every thread. You guys are nothing if not reliable."

Newsflash, toolbox: nobody's exactly "surprised" by your comments either, toolbox. In case you haven't noticed, you're a shrill, whining broken record.

LoafingOaf said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jason (the commenter) said...

I think it is kind of amazing how ineffective the whole "teabagging" slur has been. Liberals don't even notice how little anyone cares. They snicker to themselves as the country turns against them.

Jason (the commenter) said...

I really wish Liberals had ideas. It's like all they have now-a-days is name-calling. So much of the intellectual capital of the country is being wasted.

LoafingOaf said...

Another thing that bugged me about the few minutes I caught of Maher's show this week is how he was mocking those reacting to Obama's decision to change missile defense policy with respect to Russia, Poland, and the Chzech Republic. Maher tried to make it out as if anyone questioning the change are a bunch of Republcians who are still obsessed with the old USSR. But Obama, shortly before he was elected, took the same view, and pledged to continue the policy of Bush. Maher made no mention of this, apparently because he smokes too much weed and has such an undemanding, cushy job at HBO that he doesn't have to do any homework before taping.

I have no idea if Obama's policy change is right or wrong. How could I know? I can only pray he's being advised by wise people. But it's weird that Maher doesn't mention that, just months ago, Obama himself agreed with the very people Maher is now mocking on the issue.

montana urban legend said...

I think it is kind of amazing how ineffective the whole "teabagging" slur has been. Liberals don't even notice how little anyone cares. They snicker to themselves as the country turns against them.

Yes, yes D.B. Cooper! The whole country is turning against the left because some people dared to make fun of a bunch of retards who called themselves "teabaggers"! I can see the whole community of people who love to put their balls in other people's mouth (or vice versa) and the people who love them rising up in revolt! Or something. Maybe the opposite. Yes, people who abhor the idea of putting their balls in someone else's mouth (or vice versa) will rise up in revolt! Viva la revolucion! Testicle Pride!

Yawn.

LoafingOaf said...

It just sounded so silly to tune into Maher's show and see Jeffrey Toobin trying to make serious points while using the obscene sexual term "teabaggers".

All it did was make me dismiss everything he was saying. It's one thing if a smarmy comedian like Maher uses that term. But Jeffrey Toobin sounded like such a silly man using the "teabagger" label.

montana urban legend said...

So much of the intellectual capital of the country is being wasted.

Hey! Rebuilding takes time. A lot of destruction from which to start creating! So once the libs are done recovering, and the rest of the country wakes from its slumber, finishes rubbing its eyes and sees how brain-dead the newly exposed factions of the right-wing really look at its raw base, everything will work itself out. You can count on it!

Don't you worry your pretty little head off about anything now, Jason!

Lem said...

To me if someone I like says something stupid I generally stay quiet.

But if somebody I don't says something stupid is off to the races.

madawaskan said...

Dogwood-

That's what he means-I thought the "a" in front of Liberty was a transcription error.

It would hardly be the same conditions but what the hell he has his excuses pre-mapped....

[English transcripts of the tapes—recorded by U.S. warplanes—indicate that Israel still believed it had hit an Egyptian supply ship even after the attack had stopped. After the attack, the rescue helicopters are heard relaying several urgent requests that the rescuers ask the first survivor pulled out of the water what his nationality is, and discussing whether the survivors from the attacked ship will speak Arabic. ]

Zachary Paul Sire said...

The term teabagger isn't offensive, so I don't know why people are making a big deal about it. Yes, some use it in a negative way, but they don't get it. People who attend these "tea parties" should be stoked they are being called teabaggers. Teabagging is sexy and fun, and I almost wish all these people who I generally don't agree with didn't get to have such a hot nickname. They're lucky!

Jason (the commenter) said...

LoafingOaf: But it's weird that Maher doesn't mention that, just months ago, Obama himself agreed with the very people Maher is now mocking on the issue.

He's selectively pointing out hypocrisy. It doesn't matter to some people if they are hypocrites, all they care about is showing that some other person is also a hypocrite, then anything they do is okay.

You hear it all the time: "Bush did it too." Like they live their lives based on stuff Bush Junior did.

LoafingOaf said...

BTw, let me add to my post about Maher on the missile defense and Russia issue, that I have heard Maher discuss Putin in the past with admiration. Maher is a bit of a fan of Putin. I have a long memory....

Zachary Paul Sire said...

according to his blog zachary writes copy for gay pornographic magazines and also seems to have serious medical problems himself. care to tell us how you justify promotion of "free health care" while working for companies that promote and increase promiscuity and unsafe sexual practices? is it right to expect us taxpayers to fund your dangerous irresponsible lifestyle? now thats irony!


Althouse, please front page that. It really is the best thing anyone has ever said about me here.

Jason (the commenter) said...

ZPS: The term teabagger isn't offensive, so I don't know why people are making a big deal about it. Yes, some use it in a negative way, but they don't get it.

Originally it was meant to be offensive, but it has been used so much in a non-offensive context that it isn't offensive anymore. They wore the joke out.

People who attend these "tea parties" should be stoked they are being called teabaggers.

I think they are now. Many probably never understood the insult and now they don't care.

I almost wish all these people who I generally don't agree with didn't get to have such a hot nickname. They're lucky!

Yeah, I think they actually do like it now because it does have that forbidden quality to it. They aren't suppose to like being called teabaggers. It's supposed to make them feel bad, but it doesn't, so it empowers them.

Dogwood said...

...he has his excuses pre-mapped....

Frightening isn't it?

Synova said...

"Yes, yes D.B. Cooper! The whole country is turning against the left because some people dared to make fun of a bunch of retards who called themselves "teabaggers"!"

It's fine with me if everyone on the left ignores this. Because as much as someone like, say, my mother, might not catch any other meaning but "bag of tea", she's going to react strongly negatively to it if anyone let on it was a crude sexual term.

This is the "center" and the "moderates" and the "swing vote."

Pretend, if you like, that all the people in the country are way okay with perverse sexual insults... I suppose you think that this is the normal mode of communication? It's not.

blake said...

Actually, I think y'all are missing the point as far as fat people go. There isn't a lot of sound evidence to suggest that people with higher BMIs (which is the BS statistic used) are less healthy.

The point is to demonize fat people in accordance with a greater assumption of health care issues. This leads to then being able take more draconian measures to control peoples' lives.

Jason (the commenter) said...

ZPS, nothing impressed me more than to hear you write copy for gay pornographic magazines.

LoafingOaf said...

Montana: I'm not a big fan of the Tea Party folks. I think blogs such as Little Green Footballs have done good work in exposing the dark side of the Tea Party movement.

But I have a question for you. Do you really think people such as yourself and Maher's guest David Cross are convincing as being anti-hate-mongers when you love the word "retard"? Maybe it just depends on what circles one swims in, and how much contact one has with people who are really hurt by that term. I think it's an offensive term to throw around. And I just had to laugh at the Maher show when they had a panel sitting there going on about hatemongers while they loosely threw around the term "retard".

Also, do you really think it helped Jeffrey Toobin - someone who fancies himself a serious commentator - to use the term "teabaggers"? He sounded so ridiculous making this serious point but while doing so using that word. It was like, "Okay, dude, the facade isn't convincing, you just exposed yourself as a silly man."

blake said...

Also re "tea bagger" is in good company as a term: See "Yankee Doodle".

Lem said...

Markakis Orioles loaded the bases but still fall short 11 to 5.

Jason (the commenter) said...

And what the hell were Liberals doing using the phrase "teabaggers" as a slur? Do they want people to live in shame of their sexuality? Seriously, they don't like fat people or anyone who performs any type of sex act other than the missionary position.

How many people in this country are left to be Liberals?

Jason (the commenter) said...

blake: There isn't a lot of sound evidence to suggest that people with higher BMIs (which is the BS statistic used) are less healthy.

JAC did a post where he linked to a debate between Megan McArdle and David Frum covering that exact type of information.

Lem said...

When the name that might be given to something is more important than the thing it supposedly represents.. that thing whatever it is, has ceased to be important.

madawaskan said...

Dogwood-

Ya, you pair that with the latest tome from Jimminy and well....

btw Caribou Coffee is boycotting Carter's little Center-I think I'm going to try to get my java fix there from now on.

I'm also loving this from Instapundit today- all the more so because of it's rarity-

He’s a foul old man, and a disgrace to the office he once held.

Insty on Jimmy Carter.

Heh.

montana urban legend said...

Awright. I'm hoping to point out two things, and then I can be done.

This is the "center" and the "moderates" and the "swing vote."

Pretend, if you like, that all the people in the country are way okay with perverse sexual insults... I suppose you think that this is the normal mode of communication? It's not.


What is becoming increasingly less normal, and less common (especially given your need to point to your mom as an example) is obsessing over sexual issues period. For good or for ill. Discomfort with the term is worth making fun of, as was whatever similar impulse made oral sex illegal in many states many, many years ago. No one cares about looking to sex for their primary source of information on how to make moral decisions. There are bigger, or, if you will, fatter fish to fry.

"Actually, I think y'all are missing the point as far as fat people go. There isn't a lot of sound evidence to suggest that people with higher BMIs (which is the BS statistic used) are less healthy."

What utter balderdash.

It might not be a direct correlation at every stage of that index or any other tied to weight. But to deny that obesity doesn't correlate with heart disease, type II diabetes, cancer and the other big killers is complete nonsense.

Now I know that magical thinking has permeated even this topic. First it was evolution. Then climate. Now fat is healthy. What next?

montana urban legend said...

And what the hell were Liberals doing using the phrase "teabaggers" as a slur? Do they want people to live in shame of their sexuality? Seriously, they don't like fat people or anyone who performs any type of sex act other than the missionary position.

It's ironic that you wouldn't get this, Jason. Because what they're making fun of is ignorance. And not just ignorance, but ignorance of the most entertaining sort: The conservative, self-referential sort.

Zachary Paul Sire said...

I actually take offense at "writes copy for gay pornographic magazines."

I do not write mere "copy." I write articles and conduct interviews, and I blog for one of the best websites on the internet, in my opinion.

Jason (the commenter) said...

Liberals using sexuality as a slur makes me think that they aren't okay with it, that in reality it disgusts them. It's weird because they are supposed to be open about sex and everything, to then see how much shame the have about it.

LoafingOaf said...

What I'm saying is, it's one thing if comedians and the like use this term "teabaggers". But watch this weeks' Bill Maher show. Jeffrey Toobin is not a comedian. He presents himself as a serius commentator.

Yet, Toobin uses the term "teabagger". I thought it made him sound like a completely ridiculous man.

Once I heard that label come out of his mouth, I didn't even listen to what he was saying. If he had resisted such a silly label I would've listened to what he had to say! Instead, I just wondered why a Serious Legal Analyist ad Political Commentator was referring to people at the Tea Party protests as (Urban Dictionary): "a man that squats on top of a womens face and lowers his genitals into her mouth during sex".

And this came just after David Cross referred to the Tea PArty protesters as "retards" while presenting himself as someone against hatefulness. "Retard" is a hateful term!

Bruce Hayden said...

I was out for a walk, and realized that if we are talking irony and Maher, probably the biggest irony there is him calling his program "politically incorrect". As Greg Gutfeld pointed out in that video that jayne cobb linked to, Maher is almost the furthest thing from both politically incorrect and libertarian as you can get.

Jason (the commenter) said...

LoafingOaf: And this came just after David Cross referred to the Tea PArty protesters as "retards" while presenting himself as someone against hatefulness.

This is how Liberals engage in public dialog. Makes you appreciate the amazing jobs people like Rush do every day--hours of concentrated debate on political issues of the day. Liberals don't have that kind of resource and it shows.

Synova said...

You don't even see your own intolerance, do you MUL.

This is very much what people are reacting to. Who is allowed to speak? What are allowable opinions to have? Who deserves consideration and who does not?

You scoff that people will turn away from the "left" and then mock traditional morality and anyone who thinks it matters.

Do you really believe that a majority of people share your values?

Lem said...

In some ways the focus on the term "tea whatever" is a way of distracting, changing the subject and defusing the issues the "tea whatever" are raising.

Its really cunning and insidiously ingenious.

vw - alsnini = not every tea-bagger is a nini.

montana urban legend said...

Its really cunning and insidiously ingenious.

Lem, I think you really meant to say that it's tempting and delicious.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

After reading all of the comments, and it was some tough slogging, I'm amazed that no-one has made this point:

Those allegedly fat people are there precisely because they want to take responsibility for their own condition, and do not wish to cede that responsibility to an oppressive government health care regime.

The idea that they are somehow not qualified to protest the spending of their own money against their wishes is typical of the authoritarian left.

Fortunately 2010 will be an electoral bloodbath for Democrats no matter what congress does.

montana urban legend said...

This is very much what people are reacting to. Who is allowed to speak?

Ummm.... anyone. But especially people who can defend what they say.

What are allowable opinions to have?

How is an opinion allowable (and why not "allowed", btw?) or not? What is getting ridiculous is the confusion between opinions and fact. There should be a difference and the strength of someone's opinion doesn't make their opinion a fact.

Who deserves consideration and who does not?

I don't know what this is supposed to mean. But in the political realm, it looks like those who are partial to the considerations I outlined above might have more power now. Which, I think, might be a good thing.

You scoff that people will turn away from the "left" and then mock traditional morality and anyone who thinks it matters.

Do you really believe that a majority of people share your values?


I could care less about what a majority of people think. I'm not a demagogue. But I think people care less about "traditional morality" as an arbiter of ethics. Heck, after the fallen Republicans, people care less about ethics, period. What conservatives who stay true to their philosophy of government understand, is that their party was corrupt, their rule debauched. You know Synova, debauchery can exist in many forms, and at many levels. Why anyone would obsess more about bedroom issues (which, I might thankfully add, less and less young people are inclined to do) when it comes to government, versus the utter stupidity and corruption of governing in such a way as to not care about the country's fiscal, intellectual and structural health, is beyond me. Because, you see, some of those things are necessarily much more public in their effects than the other. And until such time as Newt Gingrich's great-grandson in 2050 figures out how to make it not so, government is necessarily a public thing. Hence the term: Res Publica. Learn to separate public from private. Your libertarian former allies will have less and less respect for you until you learn how to do that.

Obsessing about the nation's sex life as some important gauge for determining morality and the health of the nation is getting creepier and creepier to more and more people. You might as well create a cult that asks each candidate to parade around and display their genitals to the public. It's just weird. I could give a damn about a politician's sex life. Or yours, for that matter. Or anyone else's. It's not my business. If someone wants to talk about their relationships, fine. But, you see, that's the whole point. How people relate to one another. To overly sexualize our understanding of relationships by getting distracted by the physical aspects of them might have been somehow useful to Puritans in Boston in the 17th century. But Americans in the 21st century should have more important things to care about and base their understanding of their lives in - at an intimate level or otherwise.

Jason (the commenter) said...

Tyrone Slothrop: The idea that they are somehow not qualified to protest the spending of their own money against their wishes is typical of the authoritarian left.

Liberals could be a lot more persuasive if they bothered to understand their opponents. When I hear them call their people names I assume it's a defensive measure. They try to think of their opponents as fools so they don't have to understand them.

It's intellectual laziness.

bagoh20 said...

And so this is the way we will be heading: Never-ending attacks on each other over who is costing the national health care the most. Fat people, smokers, drinkers, lazy people, fast food, etc. Then the fights over who is most deserving cancer, diabetes, heart disease, etc. Lovely future we got.

When we all join in and take care of everybody, we get to start treating each other like children. Maybe have mandatory time outs if you drive to the store rather than walk.

I don't understand why the left believes this would be a nice world to live in. The overwhelming drive to control people who you don't approve of, blinds you to the hell you will create for everyone including yourself.

Do you really want to live in a world where the government decides how you can live? Because the slope will always slide toward the dullest drabbest existence, designed to minimize cost by eliminating risk. A life with little risk is not worth living. Making it last longer is just torture.

Honestly lefties, I understand your hunger to control those nasty people not like you, but have you thought it through, past the hate, to where you live under those rules too. The grass may not be greener. Life is really not bad as it is - it could be a whole lot worse.

montana urban legend said...

It's intellectual laziness.

It's not intellectual laziness to not bother with people who are intellectually lazy. Unless the intellectually lazy like being condescended to. Which I thought they hated.

montana urban legend said...

Life is really not bad as it is - it could be a whole lot worse.

Yeah. Especially if we didn't have the 22nd Amendment and Bush got elected to a third term.

montana urban legend said...

A life with little risk is not worth living.

Yes! Like life without credit default swaps, for instance! Very unfulfilling, that life.

Jason (the commenter) said...

bagoh20, When you make great lists like that, don't forget about innovation. The Democrat's health care reform basically locks us into the type of system we have now.

Supermarkets, malls, box stores--these are all innovations that allowed ever cheaper goods to be delivered to more and more people. That sort of innovation will never be possible with healthcare if Democrats get their way.

montana urban legend said...

Jason. Baby! Seriously? This is the type of innovation of which America should be proud and extend to healthcare:

"Supermarkets, malls, box stores".

The only thing I see in malls are people the size of box stores.

And buying things whose only innovation involved a hefty dose of the art of bullshit and the type of manipulation that goes into "consumer psychology" is really a way to encourage innovation? Really?

Does the idea of innovation come with an actual sense of usefulness to you, in your mind? Indulge me.

knox said...

loafingoaf,

Lots of interesting comments.

What you've zeroed in on with Maher is that he is one of the "intellectually lazy" ones. Instead of offering fresh, unpredictable opinions--which should be paramount on a show like his--he is a rote, knee-jerk Obama supporter.

I think that inconsistencies like the Russia matter transcend right and left. Some people (Maher is one of them) will defend Obama even if that means rejecting their own values and common sense.

montana urban legend said...

Instead of offering fresh, unpredictable opinions

Which must somehow imply that from time-to-time, Obama must be attacked as being as brain-dead and useless as the Republicans, I take it?

That was the purpose of Maher's show Politically Incorrect in the nineties. Until an administration more interested in fantasy than reality muzzled him for it, prompting him to start a new show on a different network, called Real Time.

I guess you guys should be careful what you wish for.

bagoh20 said...

"Does the idea of innovation come with an actual sense of usefulness to you, in your mind?"

As much as you would like to decide that for everyone, it's not up to you. If an innovation is valuable it will be valued by the lowly people. Unfortunately they are all quite below your level, I'm sure. They don't know what's good for them.

It would be best if all ideas are submitted to the congress for evaluation, followed by approval or improvement. We'll just wait right here for that.

knox said...

mul, if you don't see the inherent value of supermarkets and big box stores, then you must be really, really, really wealthy. Because for the average middle- to lower-income person, these institutions really were revolutionary. A godsend, really.

I am just old enough to remember that as a kid, in the winter time, the only fresh vegetables at the "mom & pop" grocery store we went to were green peppers, iceberg lettuce, and a few other items.

Now I can go to Kroger and get 6 different types of onions, regular and organic, if I want. At an affordable price.

If you don't think that's a big deal, I don't know what to say. These are real, tangible goods and services that are available to the average person. They are no longer luxuries attainable only by the wealthy.

There are plenty of equivalent "retail" innovations in health care. The walk-in clinics that are popping up now, that are manned by nurse practitioners--you can get in and out for less than $100; you can get eye exams at Sam's Club; all of these innovations make things increasingly accessible to people who couldn't afford them before.

knox said...

Which must somehow imply that from time-to-time, Obama must be attacked as being as brain-dead and useless

No, that's YOUR simplification of what I said. I expect Maher to detect contradictions like the ones Loafing Oaf noticed. It's Maher's job, for godsakes. If a viewer remembers what Maher's position was on Russia, than Maher should. Or he should explain why suddenly he has ditched it. If he doesn't he will come across as an Obama ass-kisser.

madawaskan said...

bagoh20

Well...what you forget is that the elitest would be above it all-not a one of those problems would they be subjected to.

The party leaders would have their 2 to 5 million dollar wineries [variable value to be determined by their accountants-see Nancy Pelosi], dachas, and leer jets.

I showed a military guy Ashton Kutcher's twitter-[I may be a sadist] the twit was twitting about global warming and the unfairness of names being put on a "no -fly list" and not ten twits later he was late for his own Leer jet...

I mean come on-now that's irony-my military friend-well lets just say a vein in his forehead almost burst-

[Ya I'm an ass hat....]

Which reminds me I would pay to see a video made by anyone who followed the celebrities in the Help Our President video.

You know the one where Ashton Kutcher promises to only flush after a duece...

I bet almost none of the supposed promises are being kept-ok maybe the idiotic one were they promise to give their neighbor a smile.

Gawd-puke arama.

Here -Conservatives needing to "slim-down" -supposedly- could watch this before lunch-

Celebrity Presidential Pledge video

knox said...

bagoh20, brilliant response.

As much as you would like to decide that for everyone, it's not up to you. If an innovation is valuable it will be valued by the lowly people.

So true.

madawaskan said...

To wrap up just some of the Liberal agenda to date:

We are going to not defend allies Poland and Czech after they challenged Russia at our behest, yet we've got Zbigniew, probably still privy to security policy debriefs, suggestiing we defend the thugocracy Iran and shoot the IAF down.

Brilliant!

Meanwhile we have California at it's highest unemployment rate on record-

12.2%

but we're cutting off the water in areas of California needed for farming to save some damn two inch fish...

You want irony?

Look at the Dems.

madawaskan said...

damn it I misspelled deuce...

madawaskan said...

deuce or dunce-that's what you've got when you have Zbigniew in your think tank-someone should flush.

Jason (the commenter) said...

Christopher: ...broken record...

These two words have inspired me this evening. Thanks!

Beth said...

Most of the Tea Partiers looked to be in pretty good shape to me.

You looked at all 2 million of them?

Beth said...

Every time a liberal uses the word "teabagger" they lose another swing voter back to the GOP. Keep it up left-tards.

Sure thing, teabagger. Keep up the "left-tard"; the recruiting is almost swinging me right.

Anyone notice from the garage types that post here that they never are courteous or respectful to anyone who doesn't share their ideology? It's always ad hominems, insults and put-downs.

I know! Stupid left-tards!

(Just checking: Alex is a "moby," right?)

Ralph L said...

Beth, sometimes it's hard to tell, but I believe he's something far worse -- a furriner.

knox said...

Beth, some have said Alex is Titus. Don't know if that's been confirmed by one of our tech-savvy commenters.

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