May 20, 2009

Guns.

Guns!

DSC00433

Guns!1!!!1

100 comments:

Ann Althouse said...

(I noticed you folks like to talk about guns.)

Jeremy said...

I'm on my way out to buy a pellet gun right now.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Oooooooooooooooo!!! A BAR!

That stands for Browning Automatic Rifle. It was our standard SAW before the term was coined for dougboys going into WW1 and was used during WW2 and Korea. It fired a 30.06 round with a standard rate of 600 rounds per minute. It had a 20 round clip and kicked like a fucking mule.

That last part will be on the test.

Palladian said...

"It had a 20 round clip and kicked like a fucking mule."

Better than fucking like a kicked mule.

Scott said...

If my uncle had clips he'd be my Nagant.

Jason (the commenter) said...

As a child, my weekly chore was loading shot gun shells.

ricpic said...

I solved my aggresive cardinal problem this spring by taking a shot at him. Missed of course but gave him second thoughts about his territorial imperative. He's pursuing a mate and flying into other people's windows now.

Hoosier Daddy said...

As a child, my weekly chore was loading shot gun shells..

Lucky bastard. Mine was raking leaves or mowing three acres.

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

My father always made be clean my gun after I used it. What a drag.

Hoosier Daddy said...

As a child, my weekly chore was loading shot gun shells..

Lucky bastard. Mine was raking leaves or mowing three acres.

John Lynch said...

I wonder if it's a Colt Monitor.

Lem said...

I hear gun sales are off the chart.

John Lynch said...

They are off the chart. Ammo, too. If you're selling guns, Obama is the best thing that ever happened to you.

Palladian said...

"I solved my aggresive cardinal problem this spring by taking a shot at him. Missed of course but gave him second thoughts about his territorial imperative. He's pursuing a mate and flying into other people's windows now."

Wow, I'm glad you missed! I just hope he isn't defrocked for all that trespassing and mating and aggression...

traditionalguy said...

The professor needs a 210 shotgun for birds(Turkeys)and coyotes. A very easy woman's shotgun that is easy on the ears.That could be a perfect wedding gift, not that it's a shotgun wedding. But it would not be as useful to her in Madison. Then we will buy her a lifetime membership to the NRA, and see whether Sullivan has a stroke. With friends like us, she wont need enemies.

blake said...

Hmmm. Guns.

Gunsgunsgunsgunsgunsgunsguns.

Guns.

Nope. Can't think of a thing.

Lem said...

If I were advising GM Chairman Obama, I tell him to trow in a gun with the Chevrolets.

rhhardin said...

Swords too, it says.

The trouble with fencing is that you need somebody else whose hobby is fencing.

American Liberal Elite said...

Butter.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

If I were advising GM Chairman Obama, I tell him to trow in a gun with the Chevrolets.


The problem with that is, that the size of the new fuel efficent cars, which as someone already said are about the size of a glorified cup holder, the gun would have to be a pea shooter.

No one is going to want either those crappy underpowered cars or underpowered weapons.

But not to worry. The taxpayers will pick up the tab for the government subsidized tin cans that people don't want to buy.

Big Mike said...

@traditionalguy, I think you meant .410, but that's pretty small. 20 ga. should be about right. Actually, as feisty as the Professor is, maybe a 10 ga. cannon.

Jason (the commenter) said...

traditionalguy, did you mean 410? I think a 28 or 20 gauge would work better, as long as she doesn't develop a flinch. Plus she'd have an easier time trap or skeet shooting.

John Lynch said...

There are people who want tin cans. The trouble is that if you're buying a small car, almost any other brand is better than GM.

The gov't seems to want to push us all into smaller cars, but Toyota and Honda make the best small cars.

So the net effect is to hurt American car makers, who specialize in trucks and SUVs. Chevy can make a good truck, but their cars are crap.

And remember, driving with a loaded long arm is is illegal in most states.

John Lynch said...

Yeah I assumed traditionalguy meant a .410. One of my favorite guns is a breakopen .410/.22.

Penny said...

"If my uncle had clips he'd be my Nagant."

Naw, Scott, he'd be your nascent Nugent.

Hoosier Daddy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
john said...

Ann,

As long as you are there, may I recommend this slim little beauty? A girl can't be too careful nowadays. And as you can see, it's a perfect blogging accessory.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Actually, as feisty as the Professor is, maybe a 10 ga. cannon..

Nah. C'mon Big Mike. Where is your imagination? The Professor is damn near a spitting image of Sgt. Suzanne 'Pepper' Anderson. With her superior sense of fashion she would be sporting a snub nose
.38 in a garter holster.

;-)

Hoosier Daddy said...

"It had a 20 round clip and kicked like a fucking mule."

Better than fucking like a kicked mule.
.

Well we all have our off days ;-)

John Lynch said...

John, is that a 19?

John Lynch said...

Never mind the html says 36.

Lem said...

Aren't Glocks notorious for jamming?

Or is that ancient history.

John Lynch said...

Mine never have. I have a 21 and a 19. Work better than my Kimber Classic Custom.

Penny said...

"Butter"

That was a priceless comment, American Liberal Elite, especially in a room full of people who either love boom boom guns or the more pleasing Popeye variety.

traditionalguy said...

Your right--a 410 gauge. Jason the commenter can load her a supply of ammo and Hoosier Daddy can give her free shooting lessons.

john said...

John Lynch - Growing up I had a Savage .22/.410 OU. What a great combo for a young kid, for plunking, for rabbits, for partridge. I kind of took it over from my dad.

In my teen years I really drifted away from family, and things I valued as a kid, I disdained as a teen. My dad eventually sold it or gave it away.

So dumb of me back then. I could have given it to my son.

Ron said...

"Cup Holders and Speed Loaders -- Not Your Father's Chevrolet!"

Can I get the Deee-troit option package? Mac-10's under every seat!

Hoosier Daddy said...

"Butter"

That was a priceless comment, American Liberal Elite, especially in a room full of people who either love boom boom guns or the more pleasing Popeye variety.
.

Butter didn't work well in Rwanda where guns took a backseat to the preferred weapon of murder in which the machete which was used to hack to death an estimated 800,000 people in under 5 months.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Your right--a 410 gauge. Jason the commenter can load her a supply of ammo and Hoosier Daddy can give her free shooting lessons..

I'll pass thanks. I'm betting Meade probably has an old Model 1911 he's dusting off right now because of the garter comment.

John Lynch said...

I enjoyed the "butter" comment as well.

John Lynch said...

Oddly, one of my favorite guns is an SKS that I bought for 90 bucks about 10 years ago. According to the serial number it was made in China during the 1950s. It's about as accurate as you'd expect (5-6" at 100 yds) but never jams. It's a great gun for just going out in the woods if no serious hunting is to be done.

I bought a lot of 7.62x39 when it was $.05/rd, so I can shoot guilt- free.

chickenlittle said...

I joined a local indoor shooting range recently to teach my ten-year old son about guns for reasons I explained here. We go every Saturday. I figure it's my responsibility to teach my son about the realities of guns, rather than repress thoughts of them.

It's fun picking out a new rifle or handgun to try every week. The range rents over a hundred different weapons, ranging from .22 up to .357 Magnum, and all makes and models as far ar I can tell. They also rent rifles, including bolt and lever action hunting rifles, semi automatic military style rifles, as well as shotguns.

Membership includes everything (gun, targets, hearing and eye protection, range access)everything except ammo, which must be purchased on site for use in their weapons.

I highly recommend this sort of thing to anybody remotely curious about their 2nd amendment rights.

John Lynch said...

I recommend that everyone learns about guns, even if you don't like them and want to ban them. At least know what they can and can't do.

Of course, if everyone did this Hollywood would have to write better scripts...

NKVD said...

That is a good looking firearm on the wall.

Watched "Dillinger" last night - not much of a movie, but dang, they had good guns in those days - BARs, Tommy guns, and it seems every American had a rifle and shotgun locked and loaded and ready to go.

Milius was not much of a director, but I think they fired about a million blanks making that movie.

Frodo Potter said...

Hoosier Daddy, I could not have said it better. But remember, despite his handle, American Liberal Elite doesn’t care about Black Africans. I remember 1994 and how Susan Sontag and all her crowd were whining about Bosnia and ignoring Rwanda. Maybe ALE should be forced to watch “Hotel Rwanda”; that might enlighten him. The Tutsis HAD butter; they DIDN’T HAVE guns.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Milius was not much of a director,.

Oh come on!

Wind and the Lion?
Conan?
The Rough Riders? (No Titus it was about the Spanish-American War so relax)
Farewell to the King?

Dillinger was an early work. What I mentioned above are outstanding Milius flicks.

Donna B. said...

Here's my gun:

http://www.gundirectory.com/more.asp?gid=20400&gun=Revolver

But the most fun I ever had shooting was with a Polish made AK57 at the range with my son-in-law. I also did a few rounds with an M16.

NKVD said...

My bad - just saw that movie, saw his name, and did no research.

Conan the Barbarian was good. "...and hear the lamentations ov zee vimin!" Of course Arnold hears a lot more of that these days.

Dillinger didn't suck, but fell just short of being a well made movie. Missed by this much...

al said...

Aren't Glocks notorious for jamming?1 jam in 5 years for my Glock 17. And it was my fault (didn't seat the magazine properly). Glocks aren't for everyone but they are incredibly reliable.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Hoosier Daddy, I could not have said it better. But remember, despite his handle, American Liberal Elite doesn’t care about Black Africans..

Well in fairness Alpha most likely does care about Africans but his idea of helping them is the classic liberal concept of 'we must do something'. The 'something' which would have prevented Rwanada was the deployment of no more than two brigades of peacekeepers with the authority of keeping the peace rather than stand idly by as the Dutch did in Bosnia but the problem with many liberals is that they are hung up on the violence begets violence bumpersticker and when push comes to shove are too willing to be shoved over the cliff. Which leads you to Cambodia, Rwanda, Bosnia, Darfur, Congo...but I repeat myself.

Beta Conservative said...

Considering the incidence of heart disease, butter probably contributes to many more deaths than guns in America.

Avoid cholesterol, stock up on ammo.

blake said...

Besides, if you don't have a gun? Someone will steal your butter.

blake said...

Wait, factoring in Beta's comment, they might be doing you a favor.

So deaths due to cholesterol that would've been prevented had the butter's original owner not been able to keep it from being stolen (and thereby consumed), are really gun-related deaths.

I'd laugh, but I've seen this logic in action.

Hoosier Daddy said...

That's nice piece Donna. Small, compact and has enough punch to do the job.

I think you also mean an AK-47 :-)

As much as I depise commies, I will give them credit for making one of the best assault rifles made. Cheap, durable, easy to handle. No wonder its the weapon of choice among rogue nations and terrorists ;-)

Theo Boehm said...

Roses.

John Lynch said...

My AK is a POS.

They're really not that good. Yes, they jam. A lot. They're inaccurate.

The only reason they have the mystique they do is that they were OK for 60 years ago, and over 30 million of them have been made.

Note that any military that can afford it will ditch AKs in favor of a M16 or G36.

Give me an AR pattern every time. Take care of it, and it will give you 2" groups or better at 100, and will jam less often.

Cedarford said...

My favorite military rifle was the M-14. Which is still in use in military situations where long-range shooting is needed (Afghanistan).

But not in auto mode.

It and the M-16 are better than the AK-47, IMO.

I only got to fire one machine gun, a M-60. That was really something.
I'd have loved to fire a .50 caliber M-2.

John Lynch said...

I have an M1A. I love it.

John Lynch said...

Heavy, though.

Hoosier Daddy said...

My AK is a POS.
They're really not that good. Yes, they jam. A lot. They're inaccurate. The only reason they have the mystique they do is that they were OK for 60 years ago, and over 30 million of them have been made.
.

What model and year is your AK? Like any weapon the manufacturer has a lot to do with the quality of the weapon. Also when you talk about inaccuracy, keep in mind the AK-47 was designed with the concept that most of your battlefield firefights took place within 200-300 meters. It was also designed with simplicity taking into account the calibre of soldiers that would be carrying it; mainly, peasant conscripts versus a professional army.

I'll wager you have a knockoff or just a lemon. Anyone I ever spoke with that handled one had nothing but praise.

Note that any military that can afford it will ditch AKs in favor of a M16 or G36..

No argument there. The key phrase though is 'afford it.' For the money, the AK-47 still gave more bang for the buck.

So to speak ;-)

John Lynch said...

It's a knockoff, but so are almost all AKs.

I doubt most AKs will hit anything consistently past 200 yards. It's just not in the design.

One thing about guns is people tend to talk about them a lot, and the talking becomes the reality.

Actually shooting them dispels most of the BS.

There's this wonderful publication that I used to subscribe to, called "Gun Test." It was "Consumer Reports" for guns. No ads, and they bought all the guns they reviewed from retailers. They tested what the consumer would be buying, not picked donations from the gun companies. Great magazine, if it's still around.

Penny said...

Love that one too, Theo.

Not as much as "Butter", but hey. I pick my poison this time of night.

Simon Kenton said...

John Lynch, I too love the M1A but it's a nostalgic, impractical sort of love. As C4 points out, they are still a la mode where you have to be able to hit several somethings quickly and decisively at medium range (to 700 yds). So long as you keep the bedding right and have a Krieger barrel, they really shoot, and they have that ergonomic perfection (sort of like the Browning Hi-power or the 1911) that makes them inexpressibly satisfying to shoot.

"I was in love and in vain I could tell."

You know that great line in the Wind and the Willows: "Try and love a donkey," said the Gypsy. "Some people can." Well, I got an AR10 and I'm trying to love it. Oddly - it was the progenitor - it doesn't feel as well-balanced as the AR15 that is its decendent. But it shoots. I can regularly hit grapefruit-sized rocks with the second mil-dot: 500 yds. I can see this relationship developing, seasoning, richening, deepening.

former law student said...

Meade probably has an old Model 1911 Another John Browning design. I recommend everyone read his fascinating biography, but all editions seem to be out of print, according to Amazon.

Meade should probably go gun shopping before he moves up to cheeseland. Does Meade shoot? Trap, skeet, and sporting clays are all a lot of fun. I don't recommend starting out with a .410 unless Ann had fabulous eye-hand coordination. A 20 ga. puts more shot in the air than a .410 without having the recoil of a 12 ga. An autoloader would minimize the peak shock to the shoulder pocket.

I have tried both an AK and an AR-15, from a friend's collection, and I found the AK easier to shoot and hit targets.

Kirk Parker said...

"Gun Test."

I never did subscribe, but I did used to get their advertising mailers from time to time. They had the absolute best marketing line ever:

"We shoot first, and ask questions later". :-)

Bob said...

John Lynch said...

My AK is a POS.

They're really not that good. Yes, they jam. A lot. They're inaccurate.


You need to get it checked by a gunsmith, then. AK's are noted for reliability, if they were made by a Soviet-bloc country. I can't speak for the ones home-made by the Afghanis. Try replacing the magazines, and if that doesn't work, the springs.

The BAR shown in the photo was a John Moses Browning design. Browning was the single best gun designer of the 20th century.

Hoosier Daddy said...

I doubt most AKs will hit anything consistently past 200 yards. It's just not in the design.
.

That's true but again we're talking an assault weapon here; they aren't designed for accuracy for 200 yards. The AK-47 was designed for the firefights which based upon studies in WW2 were in the range of 200-300 meters. 200 yards is 2 football fields. Outside of sniping or just laying down suppressing fire, you're probably hard pressed to hit an aimed target at that range unless you're Sgt. York :-)

Keep in mind I'm talking battlefield and not the target range. ;-)

Kirk Parker said...

"they have that ergonomic perfection ... that makes them inexpressibly satisfying to shoot."

I agree, but that makes me think they are exhibiting practicality of an even higher order.

Donna B. said...

@Hoosier Daddy... 47, yeah that's what I meant to type! Anyway, my SIL has a nice collection and I hope to get to go to the range with him again.

One of the best books I've read this year is "American Rifle: A Biography" by Alexander Rose. It's interesting on several levels: technology, theories of warfare, and politics.

Kevin said...

I second the book recommendation of American Rifle. Absolutely fascinating.

The Vegas Art Guy said...

I wonder if that BAR could be made operational again. They were very hardy not to mention heavy weapons!

Theo Boehm said...

Yes, Penny. Things go better with butter.

commenter said...

ghee, i saw that the space neeedle in seatlle got hit by lighting. i hope the microsoft folks up there weren't tempting mother naature with some fake things likemagarine.

i think i watched that on yahoo news which was even funnier for steve balmer, huh?

commenter said...

laurelhurst neighborhood. even better with bringing back memories of trying to fool customers on msn.


maybe i should check out imperial mathematics. have no idea, but i can learn fast as lightening. reminds me i really should publish my children's book when i get access to my old G4 desktop again

John Lynch said...

Simon Kenton-- you're right about the M1A. Mine is heavy, and hard to carry.

chickenlittle said...

commenter said:

maybe i should check out imperial mathematics.

Butter vs. Blue Bonnet? We asked our French chef Louis:

en breade, en coo-King, no differ-rance!

John Lynch said...

My friend Steve pointed this out: sporting arms tend to follow military trends because servicemen leave the armed forces and want to purchase sporting arms that they are familiar with.

Before the World Wars, America was a lever-action nation of hunters. Returning GIs wanted to use bolt action and gas operated rifles.

Now, we have had 40 years of the M16, and quite naturally that has filtered into the larger hunting community. Returning servicemen want to use the black plastic-furniture they are familiar with from the M16.

Soooo, we get the "assault weapons" that look like military weapons and get banned by civilians. The thing is bolt- action firearms were military weapons! They were "military looking" in the 1950s, when they became the dominant hunting arm.

Now it's the "assault weapon," which has been the dominant infantry arm for over 50 years. Let's get over it.

commenter said...

french cooking has never appealed to me yet.

someone has dropped me in a more middle eastern holographic field instead.

not complaining– the ancient veggies and grains appear enough to be the real deal to me until the next transformation.

Ralph said...

My grandfather's cousin worked in the BAR factory during WWII and liberated several for the race war that many white Southerners feared would happen. Don't know where they would get ammo for it.

My grandmother (who would have been 111 Wednesday) told me about shooting grandpa's 12 gauge at a squirrel once when she thought it was her 410. She landed on her back. They hunted together a lot, but my father apparently didn't like it, though he kept their guns.

chickenlittle said...

Theo said: Yes, Penny. Things go better with butter.

No call to get all Marlon Brando, Last Tango!

John Lynch said...

Ralph--
the BAR fires that rare and hard-to-get caliber.....30-06.

Goes with my point that "military" weapons get turned into civilian arms.

Ralph said...

John Lynch, I was thinking about automatic fire. Not that you would need to fire more than once, if at all.

John Lynch said...

Yeah, that would get expensive.

Dad Bones said...

Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Hillary, United Nations. I'm all for guns but the powerful spoilsports are far from giving up their dream of an unarmed citizenry.

rdkraus said...

Chicken

Wish I could join your range; that sounds great. Since Obama was elected, I can't get on my range. Too many people there shooting. Ya can barely get in the door. I've talked to the owners and they have never done business like they have since he was elected. Some of us are clinging to brand new guns.

knox said...

Hmmm. Guns.

Gunsgunsgunsgunsgunsgunsguns.

Guns.

Nope. Can't think of a thing.

LOL!!

Fen said...

I recommend that everyone learns about guns, even if you don't like them and want to ban them. At least know what they can and can't do.


I have a Loony Left relative that is in the Maryland Senate. She got into into about guns over dinner: "I don't want my neighbor to have guns because our sons hang out together over there. Don't want him getting shot dead because they're playing with guns. And I can't control how other people raise their kids."

Fen: "They could be having sex over there too"

Loon: ?

Fen: "Getting girls pregnant, catching STDs. But they've had sex education classes. So they know how to safely handle sex"

"But you won't allow kids to be taught firearms safety. Because you think if they are exposed to firearms, they will start using them... sound familiar?"

Fen said...

What the Marines taught me:

1) Always treat a weapon as if its loaded, even when you know its not.2) Never aim at anything you don't intend to kill.

3) Always keep the barrel pointed in a safe direction (usually up)

4) Keep the weapon on safe -until you intend to fire.

5) Keep your finger out of the trigger well - until you intend to fire.

Fen said...

JohnL My friend Steve pointed this out: sporting arms tend to follow military trends because servicemen leave the armed forces and want to purchase sporting arms that they are familiar with.

Before the World Wars, America was a lever-action nation of hunters. Returning GIs wanted to use bolt action and gas operated rifles.

Now, we have had 40 years of the M16, and quite naturally that has filtered into the larger hunting community. Returning servicemen want to use the black plastic-furniture they are familiar with from the M16.



Excellent point. After "living with" an M16 in the field for 6 years, it starts to become an extension of yourself. Two years after I got out, a friend let me shoot his AR15. It was like Christmas morning for me.



Soooo, we get the "assault weapons" that look like military weapons and get banned by civilians. The thing is bolt- action firearms were military weapons! They were "military looking" in the 1950s, when they became the dominant hunting arm.

Now it's the "assault weapon," which has been the dominant infantry arm for over 50 years. Let's get over it.

Jen said...

I guarantee you won't believe me, but when I was a kid I used to sit at my dad's workbench and load shotgun shells with him. My job was pulling the lever down.

Hoosier was mowing the lawn.

chickenlittle said...

@rdkraus:

Our range is always busy too. They're open 10 to 10, seven days a week. There are about 40 "lanes" total. That's a lot of business. Certain ammo is now rationed to 2 boxes/day.

Big Mike said...

Well, Jen, you're right about that being difficult to believe.

Jen said...

We also had annual picnics at the gun club. Grilled corn on the cob, brats, beer. . . .

traditionalguy said...

The latest Gun Control attack is going to be a Treaty affirmed to be USA law that bans ammunition without markers tied to each gun. In other words, like George III in 1775, they will not ban guns, just take control of the ammunition sources. That was THE reason for the Lexington and Concord battle that began the first Revolution.

Kirk Parker said...

Come on, all you lame slackers! Only 94 comments???? What's up with that? I know we can do better...

John Lynch said...

I'm doing my part.

Daniel Ruwe said...

I drive past that place all the time, though I've never been inside. I have no idea what kind of gun that is, but it's even more impressive in person.

Charlie said...

The BAR under discussion here is not the one I saw demonstrated in basic training. It fired a .45 caliber load and would not change the timbre of you voice if held against your groin when fired. A Private Saffold can attest to this. My personal favorite was the M-1. You could not do as snappy an Inspection Arms with the M-14 as with the M-1 and, more importantly to me, my scores with the M-1 were higher on KD and Train Fire ranges.

Big Mike said...

@Charlie, if I was in a firefight I'd rather have the M14 than either the M1 (not as many rounds in a clip, no automatic fire capability, and that distinctive ping that the enemy can listen for to tell them when the clip is empty) or the M16 (a drop of sweat or a grain of pollen, either one, could make it jam).

In Iraq they discovered that an M14 can punch through cinder block walls, while an M16 can't.

Kirk Parker said...

Huh? A BAR chambered in .45???? Somebody please tell me you were looking at a Thompson instead.