March 24, 2009

The scourge of bachelorette parties in gay bars.

"The gay men are there because, well, they don't want to be around a lot of women"/"Gay men don't go to gay bars because we don't want to be around women."

Hey, Dan, he said "a lot."

***

Do I need to make an "a lot" tag?

***

Thanks to Peter Hoh for emailing that link.

124 comments:

MadisonMan said...

So where will althouse's bachelorette party be? Too bad the New Bar burned down 15 years ago. How about Club 5? The Shamrock?

I never really understood the purpose of a bachelor(ette) party. It's not like you cut all friends out of your life when you get married. Why the need/excuse to get drunk?

Seven Machos said...

Bachelor parties make absolute cultural sense. Your group of friends is lamenting the fact that one of you is going off to start a family. The friendship will never be the same. So, you go off and do the core guy things that you would do in guy heaven. You look at nude women. You drink and do drugs to puking. You gamble.

Women are losing friends to marriage, too. But they fundamentally don't run around in large groups together at bars, making asses of themselves. This they would not do in woman heaven. The bachelorette party as currently constituted is a pale, lame copy of the bachelor party.

Ann Althouse said...

I'm not even interested in doing a wedding, let alone a bachelorette party. I've never attended such a party or anything like it. I've had too much to drink on occasion, but I've never set out to attend an event that was about drinking too much.

Meade said...

A short fairy tale:

Once upon a time, a guy asked a girl "Will you marry me?"
The girl said, "NO!"

And the guy lived happily ever after and rode motorcycles and went
fishing and hunting and played golf, drank a lot of beer and tequila
and gambled and left the toilet seat up and farted whenever he wanted.

The End

Seven Machos said...

Good luck, Meade. I just want you to know: we're all counting on you.

Anthony said...

Women don't factor into my decision to gay bars. Many of my best friends are women and come to the bars with me. Some of the people at gay bars are women (both straight and gay) and having more or less women on any given night does not bother me. If I'm seeking to avoid any particular person, it's straight men. I'd rather be at a place where I feel comfortable, and that usually isn't a place surrounded by a bunch of frat boys.

Peter V. Bella said...

But they fundamentally don't run around in large groups together at bars, making asses of themselves.

It is obvious that you have not seen too many women at bachelorette parties or the aftermath. Believe me, some of them make the guys parties look tame.

Peter V. Bella said...

Meade,
Sounds like that CW song- "I'm gonna miss her..."

Seven Machos said...

What I am saying, Peter, is that this is not the actual thing that women would choose to do otherwise. Bachelorette parties are totally and fundamentally exercises in posing.

MarkW said...

What I am saying, Peter, is that this is not the actual thing that women would choose to do otherwise. Bachelorette parties are totally and fundamentally exercises in posing.

Plenty of women go to bars in groups, get roaring drunk, and make asses of themselves on many occasions other than bachelorette parties. Spring Break is the most obvious example that comes to mind. But any old Friday or Saturday night will do if you look in the right bars.

MadisonMan said...

Seven, in my Guy Heaven I'm just playing cards and drinking good gin. Different strokes, I guess. Maybe that's why the rowdy bachelor party is interesting only in an anthropological sense. I've been to one. I remember the guy next to me shouting to the dancer Show us some pink! and she had an incredible look of contempt for him. And I thought Geeze John, could you be any more of an ass? (That was before John found God).

Peter V. Bella said...

This is for you Meade:

Well I love her
But I love the fish
I spend all day out on this lake
And hell is all I catch
But today she met me at the door
Said I would have to choose
If I hit that fishin' hole today
She'd be packin' all her things and she'd
be gone by noon

Well I'm gonna miss her
When I get home
Right now I'm on this lakeshore
And I'm sittin' in the sun
I'm sure it'll hit me
When I walk through that door tonight
Ya I'm gonna miss her
Oh, lookie there, I've got a bite

Now there's a chance
If I hurry
I could beg her to stay
That water's right
And the weather's perfect
No tellin' what I might catch today

So I'm gonna miss her
When I get home
Right now I'm on this lakeshore
And I'm sittin' in the sun
I'm sure it'll hit me
When I walk throught that door tonight
Ya I'm gonna miss her
Oh, lookie there, another bite.

downtownlad said...

Bachelorette parties are annoying in straight bars too.

Peter V. Bella said...

There was an item in the local paper about this a few days ago. Some of the gay bars have stopped holding the parties and the patrons at others were against the practice.

It seems that they are practicing the same type of discrimination that they rail against- no straights allowed.

Trooper York said...

I can just see the Professor and amba and Amanda Marcotte tossing back tequila shots and stuffing dollar bills down a strippers g-string.

Trooper York said...

Since about 99% of male strippers are gay, maybe some of your gay commenters can step into the breach and put on performance at a private venue where you don't have to go to a bar.

Trooper York said...

"Real" bachelor parties only spend a limited time at a bar to get liquored up as they usually end up in a hotel room or some sort of private space.

At least that is what I have heard. Not that I have ever been at one you see.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Once upon a time, a guy asked a girl "Will you marry me?"
The girl said, "NO!"

And the guy lived happily ever after ....


Nice Meade. And she's still going to marry you? ;-)

Trooper York said...

Can't you just see it now? We can rent out the local Odd Fellow Hall for the girls and Titus and Zach and Palladian can be on the bar in g-stings shaking their money makers.

I bet that image is seared into your brain now.

madawaskan said...

Sorry but I'd probably pay them to keep it on.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Bachelorette parties are annoying in straight bars too.

I agree.

And I also agree with the article that holding a party celebrating your wedding in a place where people are not allowed to get married is just rude and cruel.

madawaskan said...
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madawaskan said...
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Seven Machos said...

This is just for Downtown: two gay males could have two separate bachelor parties, have a wedding ceremony where they promise to live together forever, buy a house together, and adopt some Guatemalan kid together.

But that wouldn't be enough because the State wouldn't recognize the marriage, nor would most churches, nor would most people in most communities.

Seven Machos said...

DBQ -- Please show us the law that says that gay people are not allowed to get married. What are the penalties under that law? What does it say, at all?

We'll be waiting. Thanks.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

DBQ -- Please show us the law that says that gay people are not allowed to get married. What are the penalties under that law? What does it say, at all?


Don't get confused Seven. I voted for Prop 8 to return the laws in California to what they were and to ammend the Constitution.... meaning marriage defined as being between one man and one woman. Civil Unions confer all the same legal standing of "marriage" at the State level. The exception is on the Federal level with Social Security. There was never any reason (other than a minority agenda trying to supress the majority) to overturn the law that the people voted on and screw with society.

But...still, people should have consideration for the feelings of others and not flaunt your wedding or your lifestyle in the face of those who it will annoy and offend. The bachelorettes in gay bars are being rude and thoughtless.

That goes both ways: for straights AND for gays. This flaunting of and shoving the gay lifestyle down the throats of the public is the main reason for the backlash and for Prop 8 in the first place.

There are several long standing gay couples in my community who are well respected, well liked, business owners, welcome at any gathering, precisely because being gay ISN'T the central tennant of their lives. No one considers them less of a "couple" than any other couple who are married or just living together in a common law type of arrangement.

downtownlad said...

This is just for Downtown: two gay males could have two separate bachelor parties, have a wedding ceremony where they promise to live together forever, buy a house together, and adopt some Guatemalan kid together.

No - it wouldn't be enough, because if the family got into a car accident in Virginia and the adoptive parent died (since gay adoption is illegal - so only one can legally be the parent), the child would be confiscated from the survivor.

It wouldn't be enough, because if one person died, the other would have to pay taxes on all property - including the house - and would be forced to sell the house in order to pay the taxes.

It wouldn't be enough, because the other person wouldn't be entitled to Social Security survivor Benefits if the other person died.

It wouldn't be enough, because if one of the partners was from another country, he would not be able to immigrate to the United States on a spousal visa.

It wouldn't be enough, because they would not have hospital visitation rights and wouldn't be able to make medical decisions for the other in case of an emergency.

It wouldn't be enough, because the other person can be banned from the funeral if the other partner's family was vindictive (happens all the time).

It wouldn't be enough, because one spouse would could be forced to testify against the other in court, something that does not apply to heterosexuals who are married.

Etc., etc., etc.

downtownlad said...

precisely because being gay ISN'T the central tennant of their lives. - DBQ

Says who? Being straight is the central tenant in every single straight person I know, so who are you to say that it's not the central tenant in a gay person's life.

Straight people completely revolve their lives around their heterosexuality. They get married (and divorced) and have kids. They make bigoted laws that revolve around married people and give benefits to married people. They go to Churches that talk about how society revolves around heterosexual families, and how we must preserve the institution of marriage (by banning gays).

Straight people can't shut up about their heterosexuality. When I meet a married person for the first time, it takes about 38 seconds for them to bring up their spouse.

That's fine. But please stop telling me and other gay people that being gay is not a central tenant of our lives, when it's ok for your heterosexuality to be a central tenant of yours. That's bullshit.

Seven Machos said...

I love when you bring all that stuff up, Downtown. It's what I was hoping for. The average gay couple probably goes through at least four of those traumas each month.

I bet you yourself have tried to bring a foreign spouse to the United States, adopted a child, had your partner get sick, been unable to go to the hospital, had your partner then die, been unable to go to the funeral home, been forced to sell your house, and not been able to get his Social Security payments. Just this week.

I hope you are not required to testify in court about it. Because that would just be cruel.

Seven Machos said...

Downtown -- Nobody who is straight considers their straightness central to their lives. Normal gay people don't, either. You are a freaky weirdo.

downtownlad said...

Here's a test for every straight person out there.

Try to go one year without making any mention of your heterosexuality. Don't mention your spouse. Don't mention your kids. That means if someone asks you what you did last weekend, you can't say "I went to the movies with my husband/wife", etc.

Cmon - stop "flaunting" your heterosexuality. Stop holding hands (or kissing!) in public. It's so easy for you insist that gay people do this.

Try it. For just one year.

I'll bet $100 you couldn't last one day.

downtownlad said...

Seven - Why don't you go FUCK yourself you fucking prick.

One of my good friends, who considers himself "married" was in the hospital with his friend in critical condition, and he couldn't make any medical decisions for his partner.

They had to contact his family, who was abroad, and 12 timezones away in a third world country, to make decisions over the phone. Luckily his partner's family was supportive.

Really - Go FUCK yourself.

Seven Machos said...

Downtown -- A simple document would clear all that up. I imagine that most gay people are not as shortsighted as your friend.

downtownlad said...

I remember a story told me during the AIDS epidemic. A man was visiting a friend dying in hospital. It was a grim scene, as it often was in those days. The next bed in the ward had a curtain drawn around it. And from behind that curtain, you could hear someone quietly singing. The man told his friend, "Well, at least that dude is keeping his spirits up, however sick he is." And the friend replied:
"Oh, that's not the patient singing. He died this morning. And his family came to collect the body. That voice you hear is the man's partner. The family didn't approve of his relationship and they have barred him from coming to the funeral and kicked him out of their shared home. That song he's singing is the song they called their own. It was playing when they met. He used to sing it to him all the time when he was dying."
"He's still singing it even though they've taken the body away. He's singing it to an empty bed. I guess it's the last time he feels he'll ever be close to the man he loved. They were together twenty years. The hospital staff don't have the heart to ask him to leave yet."


http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/week46/index.html

downtownlad said...

You're a fool Seven.

A document doesn't fix ANY of those problems. Gay people are not even allowed to have contracts with each other in Virginia - it is AGAINST THE LAW.

downtownlad said...

My friend was not shortsighted.

My friend actually has a serious medical condition, and they paid thousands of dollars in legal fees (in gay friendly New York) to make sure everything was ok if my friend got sick. Unfortunately, my friend's PARTNER got sick - something that was entirely unexpected as his partner was the healthy one.

If it's nothing - then you pay the lawyers fee for them.

Seven Machos said...

Gay people are not even allowed to have contracts with each other in Virginia - it is AGAINST THE LAW.

This is asinine and obviously false. It's not even worth responding to, except to point out why no one takes you seriously.

Any person anywhere in the United States can provide power of attorney to anyone else. Period.

Seven Machos said...

So your friend was shortsighted.

downtownlad said...

It's so asinine and obviously TRUE.

http://www.indegayforum.org/news/show/26882.html

downtownlad said...

I have an idea. Let's pass a law that says if straight people don't have a will, then all property goes to the government. It doesn't default to the spouse or the kids - it defaults to Uncle Sam.

I'm sure Seven will support this, since only short-sighted people will never have a will.

Seven Machos said...

Hey dumb ass -- That article doesn't come anywhere near saying that gay people cannot have enforceable contracts. Please learn to read. Please do not be so willfully stupid.

There are no storm troopers coming for gay people, despite your obvious and warped desires for some kind of holocaust.

Laura(southernxyl) said...

I ran across a discussion of this on a very left-wing feminist blog last night. A gay person was having to explain to a straight person, a regular on this thing, that when she had her bachelorette party in a gay bar she was parading her privilege and it was not appreciated.

Oh, thank you for telling me, the straight person said, because I just would not have thought of that on my own.

Heck, I thought of it right away, and according to this I am so conservative as to be off the chart. Are people stupid?

BTW, Meade left off the part about all the stuff the woman did and she lived happily ever after too.

Trooper York said...

I THINK WE ARE LOSING SIGHT OF THE TOPIC HERE!!!!!!!!!

We have to plan the bachelor and bachelorette parties here.

I think the girls and the gay guys go to the bachelorette party and the staight guys and the lesbians go to the bachelor party.

Hmmmmmm, a bachelor party in New Orleans sounds like fun.

downtownlad said...

Learn to fucking read.

"and any contractual rights created thereby,” are “void and unenforceable in Virginia"

3 gay Americans were sent to prison last year for 3 months SOLELY for having private consensual sex.

downtownlad said...

The topic here is relevant. Seven, thick-headed idiot that he is, can't fathom why a gay person at a gay bar would be offended by straight assholes parading their right to get married in front of those who can't get married.

Because Seven thinks that marriage brings ZERO benefits, when it actually brings over a thousand legal rights and benefits.

Seven Machos said...

created thereby

Learn to read.

Trooper York said...

I am sorry that I didn't include you as one of the male stippers
in the bachelor party downtownlad. I forgot and that was an unforgiveable oversight. You are an important commenter and deserve to be included. My appolgies.

Seven Machos said...

I was at a bachelor party in New Orleans. Good times.

Of course, gay people cannot have bachelor parties in New Orleans.

downtownlad said...

Here's a list of the 1000 plus rights:

http://gaylife.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=gaylife&cdn=people&tm=10&f=00&tt=2&bt=1&bts=1&zu=http%3A//www.gao.gov/archive/1997/og97016.pdf

Here's a sample:
Assumption of Spouse’s Pension
Automatic Inheritance
Automatic Housing Lease Transfer
Bereavement Leave
Burial Determination
Child Custody
Crime Victim’s Recovery Benefits
Divorce Protections
Domestic Violence Protection
Exemption from Property Tax on Partner’s Death
Immunity from Testifying Against Spouse
Insurance Breaks
Joint Adoption and Foster Care
Joint Bankruptcy
Joint Parenting (Insurance Coverage, School Records)
Medical Decisions on Behalf of Partner
Certain Property Rights
Reduced Rate Memberships
Sick Leave to Care for Partner
Visitation of Partner’s Children
Visitation of Partner in Hospital or Prison
Wrongful Death (Loss of Consort) Benefits

And if you work for the United States government, and your same-sex partner dies, and you try and take bereavement leave - you get fired.

Trooper York said...

Of course they can. You do know that about 99% of the female strippers are also gay? So there are always gay people at bachelor and bachelorette parties. You should always get a private room.

Just be sure that there are two means of egress and enough room to fit the donkey through the door.

madawaskan said...

Bet:

Who goes longer-

DTL or Seven?

Trooper York said...

In my circle of family and friends, we always attach a very heavy bowling ball at the end of a chain to the leg of future groom. He has to carry it around during all the festivities to symbolize his soon to be permanent condition.

Seven Machos said...

This is enlightening in that it gives us a window into Downtown's confused head. Let's take a look at that list:

Assumption of Spouse’s Pension -- NOT A RIGHT.

Automatic Inheritance -- DEFAULT PROBATE LAW. Get a will.

Automatic Housing Lease Transfer -- AMEND LEASE CONTRACT.

Bereavement Leave -- NOT A RIGHT.

Burial Determination -- GET A WILL.

Child Custody -- NOT A RIGHT.

Crime Victim’s Recovery Benefits -- NOT A RIGHT.

Divorce Protections -- NOT AN ISSUE. No marriage.

Domestic Violence Protection -- FALSE. Battery against gays is not legal.

Exemption from Property Tax on Partner’s Death -- NOT A RIGHT.

Immunity from Testifying Against Spouse -- DOWNTOWN'S FAVORITE. An actual right! One that affects no one, ever.

Insurance Breaks -- NOT A RIGHT.

Joint Adoption and Foster Care -- NOT A RIGHT.

Joint Bankruptcy -- GO BANKRUPT SEPARATELY.

Joint Parenting (Insurance Coverage, School Records) - NOT A RIGHT.

Medical Decisions on Behalf of Partner - NOT A RIGHT.

Certain Property Rights -- GOOD ONE! Very concise.

Reduced Rate Memberships - LAUGHABLY NOT A RIGHT.

Sick Leave to Care for Partner - NOT A RIGHT.

Visitation of Partner’s Children - NOT A RIGHT.

Visitation of Partner in Hospital or Prison - NOT A RIGHT.

Wrongful Death (Loss of Consort) Benefits - NOT A RIGHT. Get an attorney and sue, anyway. It's just common law.

Seven Machos said...

Mad -- Downtown will win the endurance contest. I am just abetting his victimhood for awhile.

Peter V. Bella said...

Seven Machos,
When you argue with DTL, you are arguing with an idiot. It is a waste of brain power. Let me give you some sage advice. never argue with an idiot. They bring you down too their low level and try to beat you everytime.

madawaskan said...

Seven-

That's true I've known DTL for many blogs.

Seven Machos said...

I derive obscene pleasure from arguing with Downtown. I knew where this fight would go when I picked it.

Peter V. Bella said...

The topic here is relevant. Seven, thick-headed idiot that he is, can't fathom why a gay person at a gay bar would be offended by straight assholes

Thanks for proving my point. Gays want to practice the same discrimination they are supposedly fighting against. You are a hypocrite, like the rest of your political ilk.

Seven Machos said...

Laura -- So I guess when the two gay guys walks into the smoky, working class bar and the guys from the welding crew take offense, that's cool with you. Right?

Right?

Think hard before you answer. You are going to have to address some serious inconsistencies.

Trooper York said...

I hate discrimination. So when we pick out the strippers I want one from every race and nationality. White, black, Asian, Latin the whole united colors of Benneton.

Especially some Dominican ones for Lem. He is kinda sad.

Trooper York said...

Has anybody heard from Lem? Or is he commenting over at Atlas Shrugged now?

Seven Machos said...

Lem was here just today. He made a great comment in another thread.

Peter V. Bella said...

Hey Troop,
Don't forget the Inuits! Eskimo Pie for everyone!!!

Trooper York said...

I don't know. I heard those bitches are just cold. Plus when they oil up with that seal blubber it just ain't the same as cocco butter ya know.

TMink said...

Anthony wrote: "If I'm seeking to avoid any particular person, it's straight men."

The direct honesty of that made me laugh. Bravo! I support your freedom of association.

"I'd rather be at a place where I feel comfortable, and that usually isn't a place surrounded by a bunch of frat boys."

There you get all bigoted on us. Next time someone straight says "I don't want to go to that bar, it is full of queens" I hope you wince and utter a few mea culpas.

It will do you some good.

Trey

TMink said...

DTL, your 10:52 post was the best and most persuasive post I have read that you wrote. Outstanding.

Then by 10:58 you are all victim oriented and borderline again. Why do you insist on making overblown statements like "most gay people are like me" or "Being straight is the central tenant in every single straight person I know.

Honestly, I did not know you were capable of the post at 10:52. My appologies. But the other crap should stop. You are obviously capable of so much more, just quit the whining and work on losing your bigotry. You have more to offer, start doing something about it.

Trey

Zachary Paul Sire said...

Since about 99% of male strippers are gay...

Hate to disappoint you Trooper, but that's not the case. Trust me. It's in fact the other way around, where 99% of male strippers are actually straight, and I'd say that 100% of the male strippers who work in gay bars are straight. I have first hand experience figuring this out, so to speak.

Something I've realized after going out to a lot of clubs and bars with male strippers, and now in the industry I work in, is that straight men are much, much more free and uninhibited when it comes to showing off their bodies. They don't give a shit, and are willing to show everything, and do everything, if the pay is right. They are proud and unashamed of their bodies. Gay men, on the other hand, are much more picky and reluctant when it comes to how much they are willing to show and do. They know they'll be judge by other gay men, and gay men can be picky. Straight guys are just like, whatever! Who cares?!

madawaskan said...

Trey-

DTL's parents were absolutely evil to him.

Yet, he still loves them. I think.

So you can see why DTL wants to blame society, the Catholic Church anybody but his parents.

It is actually rational of him to try to excuse the rejection he suffered and blame it on anything other than his own parents.

m00se said...

TY-

You also can't discriminate against the ugly ones. You have to have ugly ones too...

Trooper York said...

You could be right Zach. Or you could be the exact opposite of what a straight guy says.

"That stripper won't have sex with me. She must be a lesbian."

"Hey that stripper won't have sex with me, he must be straight."

The world is a circle and the gays and straights have a lot more in common than they might think.

Trooper York said...

Not that I ever messed around with strippers when I was single. You understand.

It's just talk I heard around the water cooler.

Trooper York said...

Moose, ugly strippers are the best. They are so grateful for a dollar or two. You can't beat that.

madawaskan said...

Here's hopin' your wife had the street smarts to make sure you were tested and had all your shots.

I'm just sayin'.

madawaskan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Trooper York said...

Hey take it easy there girlie, like being in the army was like being the convent.

Smilin' Jack said...

So where will althouse's bachelorette party be?

Gotta be the Cardinal. Stick it to 'em, Ann.

Actually, I think all bachelorette parties should be held at gay bars.

fivewheels said...

Can someone explain what the attraction of the gay bar is to the women in these bachelorette parties? Why is that a preferred destination?

While I'm not necessarily down with a ban on such parties, I do think it is legitimately inconsiderate. And it just doesn't make sense, really. Not only are they rubbing the marriage thing in their faces, they're disrespecting the whole point of having a gay bar. Or so it seems to me. Someone, help me understand.

I guess I do know some women who seem to almost fetishize their gay-friendliness, like they have something to prove. But there's a time and a place for everything.

(Also, "Trice" is a she.)

TMink said...

Madasetc wrote: "It is actually rational of him to try to excuse the rejection he suffered and blame it on anything other than his own parents."

First, what a kind, supportive statement concerning DTL. I think I had read about his parents being horrible, and that sucks.

I would not read the drivel he wrote most of the time. Then he made that eloquent, coherent, persuasive post.

So I threw in my opinion. It was not nice, but it is kind advice, and I hope he takes it. Honestly, I did not see any reason to engage him other then to say when he is lying before this.

What I think is going on is close to what you said about it being rational. A lot of the people I work with were hurt as kids, and they do the best they can to deal with the situation while they are kids. But for some of them, they continue to use child like approaches to dealing with the problem after they are all grown up.

In that way, what was once rational and adaptive has become self-sabatoging and irrational.

But, I appreciate your kind understanding of DTL and the kind and respectful way you confronted me about it. Bravo.

Trey

Shanna said...

And if you work for the United States government, and your same-sex partner dies, and you try and take bereavement leave - you get fired.

That is so very not true. You can take sick leave for anyone who is a long list of relationships and “related by blood or affinity whose close association with the employee is the equivalent of a family relationship.

If you are talking about FMLA, that is true, because it is mandated by law that it can only be a spouse, parent, or child. Notice this leaves out a lot of people you might want to take leave for, like grandparents/grandchildren and siblings.

I am sympathetic with your larger point, but your facts were incorrect on this one.

The last bachelorette party I went to we had dinner and then watched movies at a hotel. I suspect many are equally tame.

Peter V. Bella said...

Hey take it easy there girlie, like being in the army was like being the convent.

In the words of General George Smith Patton: "A man who won't fuck won't fight."

Now about those strippers, how about Navajo or Hopi Indian strippers? You know Southwestern is still kind of popular?

madawaskan said...

Hey take it easy there girlie, like being in the army was like being the convent.

Wait...

How did you know I was a nun?

Trey-

You can call me mad for short.

I get what you are saying-maybe the more damaged you were the longer it takes to change that up into something more useful.

I can't imagine my own parents knowing me well for all my life and then when I present them with one variable they say essentially that all of me is-wrong/evil.

madawaskan said...

Trey-

PS I get the sometimes you got t o be cruel to be kind thing.

Sometimes the best thing that happens here to DTL is when Palladian takes care of him.

Shanna said...

Can someone explain what the attraction of the gay bar is to the women in these bachelorette parties?
I didn’t read the article so I’m not sure if they’re going to gay bars, or gay strip clubs. If it’s the later, I suspect it’s because that’s the only kind of male strip club around (this was true in DC at least). If it’s the former, I’m not sure, but I know when I was in college women used to go to gay clubs for a couple of reason. 1. They were going with their gay friends and that’s just where they were going and 2. Sometimes it’s nice to be able to go to a club and not get your ass grabbed constantly. I could see this being appealing to someone who is about to get married who wants to have fun, and maybe be around some men, but be nowhere in the realm of cheating.

To be honest, I may never have thought about it hurting some gay people to see bachelorette parties, so thanks to dbq for bringing up that side.

Peter V. Bella said...

Can someone explain what the attraction of the gay bar is to the women in these bachelorette parties?

Two reasons:
One, they are hip and trendy.
Two, and more importantly, they are safe. The woman can get drunk, dance, get drunker, dance some more, get puking stinking and filthy plastered, stumble around, and not have to worry about being pawed, hit on, or any other safety issue.

Trooper York said...

I didn't say you were a nun, I said you were not getting none, or something like that.

Indian stripper make me make a tepee in my pants. That's casino Indians not 7-11 Indians.

Trooper York said...

"Sometimes the best thing that happens here to DTL is when Palladian takes care of him."

For you newbies that doesn't mean what you think it means. Just sayn'

Zachary Paul Sire said...

Can someone explain what the attraction of the gay bar is to the women in these bachelorette parties? Why is that a preferred destination?

Women like being admired and complimented without any of the straight guy buffoonery that goes along with it. They know that when a gay guy says something nice to her, they probably mean it. The gays usually tell it like it is.

Also, gays know how to party much better than straights. We pick the best cocktails, know how to dance, and share a lot of female interests, so there's always something to talk/gossip about. I don't mind seeing a groups of fun girls in a gay bar, so long as they are dressed cute and know how to do jager shots. Girls who don't know how to pound drinks and accessorize are worthless.

Stephen said...

From The Onion, of course.

Area Woman Recalls Days When She Resented Being Hit On

SALEM, OR—Kimberly Jones, 43, vividly remembers the bygone days when she took umbrage at being pursued by aggressive suitors, sources reported Monday. "I was quite the looker back in college—I couldn't even go out for a few drinks with my girlfriends without some guy macking on me," Jones said from the kitchen of her one-bedroom apartment. "That used to really piss me off for some reason I can no longer even begin to fathom. Maybe my memory is starting to go." Jones then gazed longingly into her cup of tea.

Anthony said...

Trey,

I don't blame straight men for wanting not wanting to go to gay bars. They probably don't want to go for the same reasons I don't go to bars with lots of straight men: discomfort. My description of the type of straight man I associate my discomfort with as a "frat boy" was in jest. I'm not going to list the many wonderful, straight male friends I have (not to mention my straight father and my two straight brothers), but I hope you'll understand that characterizing the college-aged guys I'm around at the bars I attend in Madison, WI as frat boys is, of course, a stereotype, but nonetheless reasonably accurate.

Additionally, the discomfort some straight men may feel about going to a gay bar filled with "queens" is generally an "ick" factor (overt homosexuality, perhaps being hit on by gay men, disapproval of homosexuals), my discomfort from being around a bunch of "frat boys" are that I have on more than one occasion not only felt unwelcome, but unsafe.

Shanna said...

Did you ever see the onion article when Al Gore gives his State of the Union address to his cats? Classic.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

"That used to really piss me off for some reason I can no longer even begin to fathom. Maybe my memory is starting to go." Jones then gazed longingly into her cup of tea.

LOL. The Onion. Closer to reality than we want to admit.

I remember when I was younger getting carded all the time for bars and buying booze and being all put out sbout it. What a let down when no one asked anymore.

Sigh /gazzing longingly into my tea. Hmmmm. maybe I should add a shot of brandy?

Seven Machos said...

I worked with an old gay guy at a bar once. He would get way too close for comfort -- shoulder massaging, the whole business.

I really developed an understanding of how much it must suck to get sexually harassed. I don't miss it.

Seven Machos said...

DBQ -- I used to get so mad when I was carded. Long after I was 21, liquor stores would not sell to me. Made me furious. Now, when I don't get carded, I am deeply saddened.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Women like being admired and complimented without any of the straight guy buffoonery that goes along with it. They know that when a gay guy says something nice to her, they probably mean it. The gays usually tell it like it is.

This is pretty much true and probably why the women in the article like to hang in a gay guy's bar. That and the likelihood of being hit on is much less.

But... back to my point, I think that it is somewhat thoughtless and probably rude to flaunt a marriage/bachelorette party in that venue. Putting myself in the other person's shoes, so to speak, I think I would be a bit resentful. Maybe I'm being overly sensitive but I would guess that such a party in this political environment wouldn't get a great reception from the bar regulars.

Am I wrong?

Seven Machos said...

Gay bars where only gay people should be able to do gay things = good.

A society that only recognizes heterosexual marriages = bad.

Got it. Check.

Joseph Hovsep said...

I'm curious what Althouse thinks about the substance of Dan's point.

I don't really care about women in gay bars but I do think celebrating a heterosexual marriage in a gay bar is really a pretty aggressively offensive thing to do. Gay men don't come to Southern Baptist conventions to get drunk and obnoxious and celebrate homosexuality... at least as far as I know. The thing is, the kind of woman who decides to have a bachelorette party at a gay bar is probably a pretty pro-gay kinda person, just not very smart or sensitive.

Seven Machos said...

Right, Joseph. And that poor gay kid in Wyoming got what he had coming to him. Insensitive bastard.

Bissage said...

How does one spot a “gay bar” anyway?

Is there some sort of secret code, like there’s a special kind of fern in the vestibule or something?

Seriously, I need to know because I don’t want to walk into one by accident.

You see, I once had a bad experience where I was attacked by three gay guys.

Two of them held me down and the third one did my hair.

* bah dum bum *

Joseph Hovsep said...

Um, I said celebrating straights-only marriage in a gay bar was offensive and insensitive. I'm not sure how that relates to torturing and murdering a kid for being gay.

Seven Machos said...

I always know I'm in a gay bar when I see mustachioed men in tight leather vests and police hats.

Zachary Paul Sire said...

Maybe I'm being overly sensitive but I would guess that such a party in this political environment wouldn't get a great reception from the bar regulars.

Am I wrong?


Yes. Gays loves weddings, even straight weddings. My best girlfriend is getting married later this year and I'm helping her plan. If girls want to have their parties in gay bars, please do. That's the nature of a gay bar and its patrons, by the way...to welcome and celebrate everyone who comes in.

Of course, if the straights started taking over and throwing parties in gay bars every single night, it would be fucking ridiculous. But, that would never happen.

Seven Machos said...

If I own a bar, I am happy that 10 or 30 people come in who want to get shitfaced and aren't likely to cause trouble.

If somebody's upset about it, they can find another bar.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Am I wrong? asked me.

"Yes. Gays loves weddings, even straight weddings"

That's nice to know. I'm too old to be bar hopping or bachelorette partying ...LOL. So I'm not likely to be offending anyone in that area.

Just wondered because, at least for some gays, there seem to be (understandably) hard feelings about the topic.

TitusLuvsLifeEveryLifeEvenaMosquito said...

I got to gay bars and don't give a shit if women are there. Many gays bring women friends with them. My straight male friends who also come with me to gay bars usually always score with the women.

I would prefer not to see a bachelorette party at a gay bar though but I would prefer not to see a bachelorette party at any bar.

I am crowning and getting ready to pinch.

TitusLuvsLifeEveryLifeEvenaMosquito said...

"I always know I'm in a gay bar when I see mustachioed men in tight leather vests and police hats."

What year was that? 1978?

Seven Machos said...

You mean that doesn't really happen?

TitusLuvsLifeEveryLifeEvenaMosquito said...

I agree with Zach. Women enjoy being around the gays because we will compliment them on clothes, hair, etc and they know there is nothing behind it and usually trust that we have good taste.

I was out Saturday night with a few friends and another friend stopped by with a beautiful girl and we all hung out. Of course, we were all over her, loving her and she was in heaven. And I believe women can become more uninhibited and "themselves" around gay men. No weirdness or sexual tension is at play.

A lot of bars nowadays are not even totally gay. Many of the so called gay bars are now mixed.

Sure you can go to some hardcore leather bars which is all gay but many of the places many gays go now have a mixed gay straight crowd.

TitusLuvsLifeEveryLifeEvenaMosquito said...

And I can honestly tell you I don't know any gay friends that wear leather or police hats or is a sailor or military guy or whatever. I and all of my friends would look and feel completely silly.

That is one small subculture, among many subcultures in the gay world.

There are also muscle boys-chelsea boys, twinks, latinos, thugs, asians, fashion queens, Wall Street types, preps, jocks, blue collar, every type. Just like the straights.

Each large city may have one leather bar...out of many bars. The others can be complete holes in the wall to giant clubs and everything in between.

The places I go now have a mixed clientiele and are more like lounges. Anyoone would feel comfortable going into them.

We really are like the old saying, we are everywhere!!!!!

Seven Machos said...

Just so you know, Titus, I was joking about the stereotype of gay men at gay bars.

TitusLuvsLifeEveryLifeEvenaMosquito said...

Oh, OK, I didn't know.

Sometimes I think people really think that about us.

I couldn't grow a mustache if I tried.

TMink said...

Mad, thanks. My dyslexia gets me on certain names. I thought Palladian was Paladin, and I almost NEVER try to write out Rev. But even for me, what I did to your name was really horrid!!!!!

Anthony, I hear you. And I get the college town context now. Seems I missed the boat you were riding completely. It speaks well of you that you corrected me with such kindness. Please forgive my irritated post.

One of my golf buddies is gay. The only time it bugs me is when he gets frisky and touches my ass or something. But then I got mad at a lady who did that too.

Gay bars are a mixed bag for me. Drag shows absolutely slay me, I am like the French for Jerry Lewis when it comes to that. Nobody has ever been rude to me at any gay bar. For me, the number of good beers available is much more salient than the sexual interests of my fellow patrons. 8)

But I do go to a bar where I can smoke a cigar. And I frankly enjoy it when someone at another table complains to the waitress and they are asked to leave. I am not particularly proud of that feeling, but it is like I will be damned before someone gets uppity at one of two bars in town where I can smoke a stogie. They have every other bar in Nashville.

I wonder if that is what it feels like to have a breeder convention at a gay person's favorite gay bar? It just makes the place a bit out of sorts, and you feel kinda good when they leave.

But again, please forgive my rude post. I wish I could take it back.

Trey

Peter V. Bella said...

But I do go to a bar where I can smoke a cigar.

Is that still legal in AmeriKa? Tobbacco usage in a public place? In the Soviet Socailist Republic of ChiKago, it is illegal and it is illegal to smoke within fifteen feet of the entrance to ap public place- aka the public sidewalk. Five hundred dollar fine.

I did not know that there was still a real America out there.

Trooper York said...

Trey I have to come visit you man. It is illegal to smoke here in NYC except in the after hours where everyone else is smoking crack. Sounds great.

RLB_IV said...

Meade said: "And the guy lived happily ever after and rode motorcycles and went
fishing and hunting and played golf, drank a lot of beer and tequila
and gambled and left the toilet seat up and farted whenever he want."

Good golly man, don't you know that you can do this when you are married? One small thing, don't leave the toilet seat up!

TitusLuvsLifeEveryLifeEvenaMosquito said...

I am amazed at all these straight guys that get hit on by gay guys. You must be hot because I have never hit on a straight guy ever.

Seven Machos said...

I wasn't hit on so much as uncomfortably fondled.

Anthony said...

Trey,

I don't wish you could take your post back. I appreciate your opinions and your thoughts. You've been far kinder to me in your comments than others have been in the past. I admire your ability to be forthright, and to listen openly. It's refreshing. Thanks.

fullmarty said...

Not all male strippers are Gay. In Ireland we're straight.

Shanna said...

How does one spot a “gay bar” anyway?

The first club we went to in DC when I was a freshman in college was a gay bar, but we didn’t realize it until we got there (someone had recommended it). There was a list of rules at the front door that said something like “X is a gay bar. If you have a problem with this, go home”. We decided to go in anyway and were informed that it was “straight night”. Hee.
My straight male friends who also come with me to gay bars usually always score with the women.

Every time I ever went to a gay bar there is some straight man there who hooks up with somebody.

TMink said...

Anthony, what I regret is misunderstanding what you said as bigotry, when it was not.

I hate when people do that to me, and it is embarassing that I did it to you. But thanks. You are one of the good guys, and I will not forget that.

And thank you for your kindness, I look forward to returning it.

Trey

TMink said...

Trooper, I would be honored to show you around.

The first round and first cigar will be on me.

Trey

Laura(southernxyl) said...

Sorry I missed this:

"Laura -- So I guess when the two gay guys walks into the smoky, working class bar and the guys from the welding crew take offense, that's cool with you. Right?

Right?

Think hard before you answer. You are going to have to address some serious inconsistencies."

Only if there's something the welding guys aren't allowed to do and the gay guys are, and their "walking into the bar" is a public celebration of it. I suspect that if the welding guys want to get boyfriends there's nothing stopping them.

Where are the inconsistencies now?

Seven Machos said...

In your world, Laura, welding guys aren't allowed to express the discomfort they feel around gays. But we should all respect the (possible) discomfort felt by gay people about straight people having pre-wedding parties in the wrong places.

I imagine that your whole worldview is rife with this kind of inconsistency, all of it swirling around to promote your own most important virtue: viewing yourself as "tolerant."

Good luck. Don't take any logic classes. Better to shield your tender psyche.

Laura(southernxyl) said...

"In your world, Laura, welding guys aren't allowed to express the discomfort they feel around gays."

In my world, welding guys need to join the rest of us by not being discomforted by the mere presence of people who are not exactly like them. However, if the presence of gay people makes them feel uncomfortable, then they can express it for all of me. I have to say that I work around welding guys and I can't imagine them getting the vapors because they might have to see a gay person. Maybe they're secure in their manhood, or whatever, but I can't see them really caring that much.

"But we should all respect the (possible) discomfort felt by gay people about straight people having pre-wedding parties in the wrong places."

You don't have to respect anything, seven machos. If you can't see anything wrong with celebrating an impending wedding in front of people who are not allowed to get married, then bully for you. Seek out toddlers to eat cookies in front of and don't offer them any, while you're at it.

I'll add that I'm not sure what I think about gay marriage, but I am sure that people don't have to go out of their way to insult other people. And if the girls doing those bachelorette parties can't see that that's what they're doing I think they're pretty stupid.