February 25, 2009

Which MSNBC character muttered "Oh, God" contemptuously as Bobby Jindal sauntered out to speak last night?

Olbermann?

UPDATE: Chris Thrill-Up-My-Leg Matthews confesses... with an explanation: "I was taken aback by that peculiar stagecraft, the walking from somewhere in the back of this narrow hall, this winding staircase looming there, the odd anti-bellum [sic] look of the scene. Was this some mimicking of a president walking along the state floor to the East Room?" So... stagecraft, eh? As if stagecraft is absurd and grandiose for a person who is not yet President.

***

126 comments:

vbspurs said...

Without a doubt, Olbermann. Matthews has a higher timbre to his voice, even in an aside (as this was supposed to be).

Perhaps the person who laughed delightedly after "Oh God" was Tweety, though...

Cheers,
Victoria

Hoosier Daddy said...

Does Olbermann believe in God?

vbspurs said...

As a total aside, I heard that Laura Ingraham once dated Keith Olbermann.

Can you _imagine_ their sex?

Cheers,
Victoria

Bob R said...

Victoria! Bad, bad, image. I was going to go back upstairs and see if the wife wanted to start the morning off right, but you really put a damper on that.

vbspurs said...

Gnashing teeth. Wild forlorn cries, like from some wounded prehistoric animal. Bedsheets soaked in sweat and spittle.

Let me know when the old twinkle kicks in again, Bob.

Issob Morocco said...

Maybe Keith was still basking in the glow of the One's speech and merely referencing to its speaker.

Ron said...

If this Olbermann were back at SportCenter he'd try to make sure to spin it such that the Cincinnati Reds would have never lost a game, regardless of score...

Darcy said...

Hee. Issob.

Jack said...

Did you all see that 92% of the public was "positive" about the speech? That leaves only the loons and nutters on the extremist right in opposition.

ROFL.

Jack said...

Obama's speech last night is getting universal praise -- even from Republicans.

Jidal's speech is universally being panned -- even by Republicans.

You'd never know that reading Althouse's blog, however. Because Althouse doesn't give honest analysis, wherever the chips may fall. She gives analysis based on how she wants to influence readers. She wants to turn you off of Obama and on to Jindal, so she gives dishonest commentary on the speeches.

She's no better than a Heritage Foundation paid shill.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Did you all see that 92% of the public was "positive" about the speech?

I thought it was a good speech too. Then again I'm reminded from that scene from Braveheart where Wallace is giving a speech to his troops before battle and afterward his trusted lieutenant says.

"Fine speech. Now what do we do?"

TitusLoveUToDeath said...

I said "Oh, God" after the speech.

He does have a little saunter to him and in a gay way which is a bady way.

Palin will eat him for lunch in 2012.

Modern Otter said...

I'm pretty sure it was Chris. (Matthews, not Wallace...). Now watch me get proven wrong if somebody else fesses up.

Issob Morocco said...

Jack...off to whatever part of your fantasy land you desire.

Pogo said...

If the economy ran on stirring oratory, well, if wishes were horses...

A few years ago I would have been outraged by this "Oh, God" comment from MSNBC. But the last election demonstrated that the majority of the news media is run explicitly by and for the DNC. They exist now as merely a standard state propaganda organ.

Tradition requires they appear to be 'fair', but these little slips of the tongue (more sotto voce than accident) reveal the contempt for those who are not of The Party.

So why bother listening? I haven't watched TV news in about three years, save for live scenes with the sound off. It's just choreographed bullshit, every show containing The Party's narrative arc, the Democratic Moral Lesson for the Day.

Was it Olbermann? Well, who gives a damn? It wouldn't matter if it were. He'll get a few high fives for mocking Jindal perhaps. And then no one will ever remark on it again.

In the modern 'news' world, feigned objectivity is no virtue.

Frumson Wooters said...

Obama is president of the country, not the Speech and Drama Club. Accordingly, I don't care about his rhetorical skills, I'm interested in the results of his actions. If the stock market indicates the confidence of investors in the Obama/Pelosi/Reid/Pelosi economic proposals, Obama is off to a shaky start.

Fred4Pres said...

I mumble worse things under my breath when Olberman comes on, but I do it in the privacy of my home and I am not an...objective...member of the 4th Estate.

Fred4Pres said...

Was Bobby Jindal off his game because it was Fat Tuesday?

Ron said...

Would Obama throw us some beads if we show him our bank statements during Mardi Gras?

Leland said...

I have to agree with Pogo. I wouldn't know MSNBC existed if not for critics. From what I've learned in the past year is that MSNBC is going for shock value and has foresaken any objectivity.

I think Issob has it right.

Cedarford said...

After Bush II, I am happy we at least have a good communicator in the White House. He may be wrong on issues, but at least we will be spared more years of people for or against the Prez forced to interpret what he meant - from what he said.

Jindal sucked. Joe Scarboro on his AM show said it was like the Dave Clark 5 following the Beatles at Shea Stadium in '65. Something both he and I were too young to see...but I get his point..

onparkstreet said...

I must have the complete opposite tastes of everyone else on the planet.

I liked the Oscars and Hugh Jackman's song and dance numbers.

I kind of liked Jindal's quirky little speech.

I thought Obama was boring.

The best piece of theater in the address to the congress-a-palooza last night was when the prez said the stimulus bill had passed and all the Ds stood up and all the Rs just sat there. No, not for partisan reasons, just because it's hilarious theater whoever does it.

*Now I know why some of the more prominent righty bloggers call themselves 'beta' males, albeit jokingly. Easily rattled crew. So, the speech went well for the President? Big deal, the last week everyone at work, at lunch, all Obama supporters, have been voicing their unease with the stimulus bill. They could care less about Jindal or any speeches, but, I'll report back if there are any things worth reporting from my informal Frank Luntz like noticings.

*I don't say anything because I've decided I don't like politicians very much right now and they have to win me over with more than prettiness.

Simon said...

Victoria, one suspects a strapon was involved.

Jack, don't fret: even Obama's critics are positive about the speech, in at least one sense of the word.

onparkstreet said...

oh, I was just joking about the 'beta male' stuff above, off course. I just think bloggers are funny creatures, right or left, completely labile and 'of the moment', it seems. So, please, I meant no harm!

*I have never watched Olbermann except when he shows up on sports shows. Why does he do that, anyway? It's jarring.

Mister Snitch! said...

"Does Olbermann believe in God?"

Of COURSE he believes in God! But it's too on-the-nose for him to mutter "oh, me".

Meade said...

"As a total aside, I heard that Laura Ingraham once dated Keith Olbermann. Can you _imagine_ their sex?"

Yes, oh, YES! Oh God... oh GOD!... oh...

uh oh!"

traditionalguy said...

That comment is why people watch MSNBC. I am surprised that they are as objective as they are, since their audience are committed win-at-any price Leftists.

jayne_cobb said...

He was originally on Sports-Center, and given his low ratings he occasionally has to appear to try and drum up some more viewers.

AllenS said...

Doesn't matter which MSNBC character said it, it was said. I didn't watch the speech last night. I've never watched one, no matter who the president was. I read all of the 500+ comments, and found that very entertaining, until the icky peoople showed up.

Icepick said...

Doesn't matter which MSNBC charatcter said it, it was on MSNBC. Far more people will know about it because of blog response than will have viewed it.

jeff said...

"He may be wrong on issues, but at least we will be spared more years of people for or against the Prez forced to interpret what he meant - from what he said."

Yeah, it was pretty tough, what with him saying exactly what he meant. Confused simple people for eight years.

author, etc. said...

Of course it was Olbermann. He has one note to hit and he strikes it with numbing consistency, and his reflex sneer at Jindal's entrance sums it up perfectly.

As for Jindal's speech, look, the Republicans have very few cards to play. Matched against a virtuoso performer like Obama, Republicans can only circle him a bit in the ring and warily probe here and there for points of vulnerability (which are in scant evidence right now). Jindal will get better - remember Clinton's debut on the national stage with his interminable nomination speech for Dukakis at the Democratic convention in 1988. People thought Clinton was a political numbskull at that point.

Bill said...

Simon: Thanks for putting that image in my mind. Ouch!

john said...

Hey Jack -

You are absolutely correct: Ann leads the movement to overthrow Obama, and she's not going to let trolls like you contradict her. That's why all your comments have been deleted (and she even erased your blogger profile).

Simon said...

To give Olberman his due, though, he wasn't far off the mark. Jindal's performance wasn't good
give a blind man an axe and have him start hacking around, and sooner or later he is bound by the law of averages to hit one mark or another.

(Although, with all due respect, I thought Chris Althouse's comparison last night of Jindal to Obama was a little unfair - pace Beth, Jindal has been a governor for, oh, at least twenty minutes or so.)

ricpic said...

Laura Ingraham is hot, in a Lutheran kinda way.

Ann Althouse said...

So, wait. Did Bob make love to his wife? I don't see how we can go on until this is resolved....

jdeeripper said...

It was Chris Matthews.

Ole Tingle Leg was reacting like a woman in a club who was about to be hit on by some dork.

"Hi, my name's Bobby. Apart from being sexy, what do you do for a living?

rhhardin said...

Since when is Obama a good speaker?

He's awful.

Even as superficial pap, every cadence clunks.

``This is rhetoric satire, right?'' should not be the listener's first thought.

MadisonMan said...

Jindal needs to work on his body language. He did not stride purposefully to the podium, he ambled on up, like he was in a Krewe going down Tchoupitoulas.

ricpic said...

I agree with rh (not that he cares one way or the other), especially that rising inflection Obama uses at the end of certain phrases, that I suppose he thinks underlines the phrase in question, when in fact it just annoys the hell out of any but the slavish.

Simon said...

rhhardin said...
"Since when is Obama a good speaker?"

I think it's just PTSD from Bush. Expectations have fallen so far that even Obama's pedestrian, orotund oratory is compared - with a straight face - to Churchill.

Bruce said...

"He may be wrong on issues, but at least we will be spared more years of people for or against the Prez forced to interpret what he meant - from what he said."

Well, he's a good speaker, but not a good communicator. He uses lofty, polished phrases that sound nice, but that often don't have much meaning behind them, if you really parse them. He's good at sounding like he's telling you something.

"Even in the most trying times, amid the most difficult circumstances, there is a generosity, a resilience, a decency, and a determination that perseveres; a willingness to take responsibility for our future and for posterity".

I'm sorry... what? You're saying that, um, people solve problems when they have to? Thanks for filling me in on that detail. And your plan is...?

He sure makes it sound like he's saying something deep, though. I feel like I am forced to spend a lot of time trying to interpret what he means from what he said.

An earlier commenter summarized it well: "Fine speech. Now what do we do?"

Original Mike said...

I'm surprised MSNBC even showed it. They continue to beclown themselves.

I didn't watch either speech. I've been watching the only "speech" that matters, the market. And its not muttering under its breath.

Simon said...

"What General Weygand called the Battle of France is over. I expect that the Battle of Britain is about to begin. Upon this battle depends the survival of Christian civilization. Upon it depends our own British life, and the long continuity of our institutions and our Empire. The whole fury and might of the enemy must very soon be turned on us[, for] Hitler knows that he will have to break us in this Island or lose the war. If we can stand up to him, all Europe may be free and the life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands. But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted science. Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'" Winston Churchill, June 18, 1940

"Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this. But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth." - Abraham Lincoln, November 19, 1863.

And then there's Barack: "I am absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that [my nomination] was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless; this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal; this was the moment when we ended a war and secured our nation and restored our image as the last, best hope on earth. This was the moment — this was the time — when we came together to remake this great nation so that it may always reflect our very best selves and our highest ideals." - Barack Obama, June 3, 2008. He's so bad that he's cribbing the intro to Babylon fucking Five! It's the sort of speech you can imagine Bruce Boxleitner yelling while a chorus of latex-clad extras look excited.

I have a vivid memory of Althouse vlogging her reading a letter Obama had sent, voice aquiver with a combination of scorn and amusement. It perfectly crystallized my befuddlement that so many people - many of them partially educated - could be taken in by such pap masquerading as oratory.

Great White Father George said...

I didn't watch either, except a clip showing Jindal wishing everyone a "Happy Mardi Gras."

As Original Mike above says, perhaps Pres. Obama can delay the market going down more for a little while, but it seems baked in the cake.

Just read the Wall Street Journal. One jaw dropping story after another. Little data bit yesterday...In normal times, one railroad company might have 5,000 to 8,000 railroad cars empty and parked on sidings in America.

Today? 48,000.

Total number empty on sidings: 206,000. "Placed end-to-end, the cars would stretch from New York to Salt Lake City."

Then there's the nearly unreported stupefying building bubble in China that defies all comparison to what happened here...

Simon said...

Now I have Claudia Christian in my head intoning "The Barack Project was our last, best hope for peace. It failed."

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

I have to admit that I sometimes watch MSNBC for pure entertainment value. They've gone from attacking those in power at every opportunity to defending those in power at all costs. I could at least respect them if they were consistent. So much for dissent being patriotic.

Simon said...

The dow closed at 7,350.94 last night. It's already down to 7,261.57. How low are we expecting today?

AllenS said...

It's only down 89 at the moment, Simon. At that rate we won't hit 4,000 for a long time.

Hoosier Daddy said...

He's so bad that he's cribbing the intro to Babylon fucking Five! It's the sort of speech you can imagine Bruce Boxleitner yelling while a chorus of latex-clad extras look excited.

LMAO Simon, I nearly fell off my chair over that one.

Let's see, Barrack is Sheridan while Michelle can be Ivanova. She certainly has the right disposition.

God what a great series.

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

How low are we expecting today?


I would expect us to test 7000 soon. Markets tend to ignore hope and change.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Biden can be Kosh since what comes out of Biden's mouth makes as much sense as what Kosh would say.

LarsPorsena said...

Jack said:

"Did you all see that 92% of the public was "positive" about the speech? That leaves only the loons and nutters on the extremist right in opposition."

The other 8% are liquidating their market holdings today.

AJ Lynch said...

Speaking of Biden- I just watched a clip of him this morning. For the 2nd straight day, he forgot the website address for recovery.gov.

Biden was overheard asking someone for the "website number". LOL.

AllenS said...

Now down, 91.60. Get out there and buy some stock, Jack!

Palladian said...

"The dow closed at 7,350.94 last night. It's already down to 7,261.57. How low are we expecting today?"

I think we're going to dip into 6000 territory.

MadisonMan said...

The other 8% are liquidating their market holdings today.

This is time to hold, not sell. Sell High.

EDH said...

Matthews, for sure, with that underbreath snark.

Clear as day.

AJ Lynch said...

I heard Cabela's stock is up due to an increase in gun sales.

I wonder if it is possible to buy stock in a survivalist-supply business?

Beth said...

Was Bobby Jindal off his game because it was Fat Tuesday?

I doubt Jindal does much for Mardi Gras. He's pretty square.

Simon, Jindal's been in one government job or another since he was in his mid-twenties. He's been governor more than a year and was in the U.S. House before that, beginning in 2004. He ought to know how to speak in public. What you saw last night is what you get, except usually he talks about three times as fast. For years, he's gotten by on that schtick: he spouts off a bunch of figures like an auctioneer and his audience thinks "wow, he must be a whiz kid!" It's only when he slows down that people realize he's going on about nothing, and that whole moronic cadence is a byproduct of his trying to pace himself.

nathan said...

Let's cut taxes some more. and then some more. and then again...that will do it!!

...and listen to Fox news for fair and balanced analysis of how bad Obama is...never mind that the speech got great reviews all over the place.
what does the voting public know?

Zachary Paul Sire said...

Funny, I didn't think it was someone from MSNBC but rather the collective voice of everyone in America watching.

LarsPorsena said...

MM:
"The other 8% are liquidating their market holdings today.

This is time to hold, not sell. Sell High."

Not if the market is headed towards
6000. On the other hand, Obama has helped increase guns and gold prices.

Hoosier Daddy said...

He's been governor more than a year and was in the U.S. House before that, beginning in 2004. He ought to know how to speak in public.

Beth, I would have thought that after 8 years of Bushims, you wouldn't consider holding political office as a litmus test for being a good public speaker.

Winning an election has a lot more to do with charisma than anything else. Take Clinton and Obama, great charisma and seem like great candidates as long as you don't listen to closely to what they're saying.

Kevin said...

I wonder if it is possible to buy stock in a survivalist-supply business?

I'd look at black rifle manufacturers (Bushmaster, Colt, Armalite, etc) and ammo manufacturers.

Beth said...

ZPS! Funny! My first thought when Vicky posted about this last night was "How'd they hear me?"

Beth said...

If charisma is required, Jindal ought to get back to work here in Louisiana and forget about the presidency.

nathan said...

this will give p[erhap[s a more objective view of how the Obama speech went last evening. Of course if you dislike the Dems and Obama then you will next jump on the sources cited here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7908476.stm#views

but then the American public similarly responded so just perhaps...it is you?

Pogo said...

nathan, it was a pretty speech wasn't it?

Here's another objective reaction:
Dow 7,187.50 -163.44 (-2.22%)

S&P 500 756.61 -16.53 (-2.14%)

Nasdaq 1,413.99 -27.84 (-1.93%)

10y bond 2.82% +0.02 (0.71%)

9:41 a.m.

The DOW is at 1997 levels, and dropping.
Pretty pretty words, though.

AJ Lynch said...

Nathan:

I admit it is me.

Dave S. said...

"He may be wrong on issues, but at least we will be spared more years of people for or against the Prez forced to interpret what he meant - from what he said."

Is that a joke? Obama's slicker than whale snot and will turn on a dime and give you five cents change. Pinning down his meaning from his Clintonesque slicksterism is an exercise in futility.

Sofa King said...

Beth -

Do you think that your personal dislike of Jindal excuses MSNBC's bias here?

If so, can you please explain the logic.

If not, I am not understanding your point with these anecdotes.

Dave S. said...

That 8% who didn't like the speech are probably the people who pay fifty percent of the taxes. When has sticking it to them not hurt the country?

Obama's stale class warfare act and whiny lies (you don't inherit a deficit, and you sure as hell don't get to make that spurious complaint while blowing previous spending records out of the water) will wear thinner and thinner with more and more people as they realize what a petty, characterless cipher he is.

Dave said...

Whenever someone gushes over what a marvelous orator Obama is, all I can think of is "Blazing Saddles" Where Slim Pickens (Taggart) tells Harvey Korman (Hedley LaMarr) "God darnit, Mr. Lamarr, you use your tongue prettier than a twenty dollar whore."

Maybe it's just me, but his speeches always leave feeling like I've just been fluffed.

Michael Hasenstab said...

Smith & Wesson opened higher this morning. Cabela's is down slightly.

Here's how to get your survival food kit organized.

Find your own cave. Make sure it's a nice cave where you can age cheese and store wine. And no bears, make sure your cave has no bears.

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

It must be frustrating for O when the markets ignore his great orations. Maybe we could nationalize the Dow, S&P and Naz to fix it.

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

Does Olbermann believe in God?

Clearly he does, hence his love for the messiah.

Hoosier Daddy said...

If charisma is required, Jindal ought to get back to work here in Louisiana and forget about the presidency.

I was only making a comment on your tying together holding public office = knowing how to speak in public. I assume if he isn't doing his job to the satisfaction of the voters, he'll be looking for a job in a few years.

Maybe at a 7/11 as Biden would say.

MadisonMan said...

Not if the market is headed towards
6000. On the other hand, Obama has helped increase guns and gold prices.


The time to sell was a year ago. If you can't handle this downturn in stocks, you shouldn't have been in stocks to begin with.

Anthony said...

The ladies on "The View" seem to think it was Chris Matthews.

madawaskan said...

Chris Matthews.

Hoosier Daddy said...

The time to sell was a year ago. If you can't handle this downturn in stocks, you shouldn't have been in stocks to begin with.

Amen. Depending on your individual situation, this is what I see as a buying opportunity. I'm 41 now and figure I have to work another 40 years since SS will be insolvent so I figure when the market rebounds in 20 years, I'll be set.

Meade said...

madawaskan said...
"Chris Matthews."

Chris Matthews was having sex with Olbermann?

Fred Drinkwater said...

Michael H. wins the thread for the first mention of bears in a non-stock-market context.

Fred Drinkwater said...

Michael H. wins the thread for the first mention of bears in a non-stock-market context.

hdhouse said...

It's President Bobby!! It's President Booby! Oh God.

Host with the Most said...

Jack (above at 6:45 am)said:

Obama's speech last night is getting universal praise -- even from Republicans.

Jidal's speech is universally being panned -- even by Republicans.

You'd never know that reading Althouse's blog, however.


Can someone please explain to this liberal shill the difference between a blog (commentary) and a news outlet?

Michael McNeil said...

I posted this yesterday on the live-blogging thread too. Randy Barnett at The Volokh Conspiracy posted the following two days ago about Bobby Jindal vis-a-vis Sarah Palin:

This is Not Good: From Little Green Footballs:

“Everything the media tried to pin on Sarah Palin, [Bobby] Jindal actually did: he promoted and signed a creationism bill (with help from the Discovery Institute), he took part in an amateur exorcism and claimed it cured a woman of cancer, and possibly worst of all, he pals around with people on the extreme edges of fundamentalist Christianity, and at least one person who has associated with outright neo-Nazis.”

You can read the dirty details here. The LGF prediction:

“My take: the MSM and the left would love it if Jindal is the GOP nominee in 2012, because he will lose. So they’re going to ignore all the damaging issues until then, preemptively sabotaging any effort to find a more viable GOP candidate.”

While at it, you can read about GOP Governors Mark Sanford and Tim Pawlenty's creationist sympathies here. Republicans be warned: No demonstrably creationist politician will be elected President of the United States.

Pogo said...

No demonstrably creationist politician...

Goddamned founding fathers, white males and non-atheists all. None could get picked for dog-catcher ion this best of all possible socialisms.

Michael Hasenstab said...

@Fred Drinkwater - Thanks.

Michael Hasenstab said...

"Which MSNBC character muttered "Oh, God" contemptuously as Bobby Jindal sauntered out to speak last night?"

It was Chris Matthews. He was caught with the mic on while while imagining a baby-oil wrestling match between Rachel Maddow and Norah O'Donnell.

He's had a tingly feeling about Norah O'Donnell since she first joined MSNBC. Maddow just adds an element of fantasy.

Hoosier Daddy said...

It's President Bobby!! It's President Booby! Oh God.

Look who pops in to scoot across the carpet.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Can you _imagine_ their sex?

Honestly I'm not completely convinced Olberman is male.

madawaskan said...

Meade-

Ooooh thanks for that Mr. Greenshorts-

That image is now seared!,seared! in my memory.

Seven Machos said...

Just so you people know, the vast majority of voters in this country believes that God created the heavens and the earth. I would argue the opposite of what is said is above: no one who doesn't believe in some form of creationism can be elected.

Even Saint Obama had to find a church.

madawaskan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
madawaskan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael McNeil said...

Goddamned founding fathers, white males and non-atheists all.

The first three presidents of the United States (along with Benjamin Franklin and many others at the time as well) were Deists.

As John Adams wrote to Thomas Jefferson in 1816: “The ten commandments and the sermon on the mount contain my religion.”

Historian Frank Edward Manuel (Emeritus Professor of History, Brandeis University, Waltham, Massachusetts; author of Shapes of Philosophical History and others), writing in Encyclop√¶dia Britannica's article “Religious and Spiritual Belief, Systems of,” put it thusly:

”By the end of the 18th century, Deism had become a dominant religious attitude among intellectual and upper class Americans.”

Thomas Paine, author of the Rights of Man, explained his beliefs this way in his Age of Reason, while imprisoned by Robespierre in 1794 France:

“I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.

“All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.”

AlphaLiberal said...

It was pretty clearly Chris Matthews.

OldGrouchy said...

A few of the Leftist Idiots commenting here really do believe that Obama is a great speaker! What Obama has is a great sounding voice, a pleasing timbre, and good sound control.

However, when he tries to speak extemperaneously his speech becomes halting and it appears that he's trying to figure out what to say next; often times failing!

Recall several times during the recent campaign when he tried to speak off the cuff and fell flat on his face.

The success key for Obama's speeches are whether he has a teleprompter to follow. Obama doesn't appear have a depth of understanding of how the world works or of history or how many states we have in the USA; hint, it's fewer than 57!

Pogo said...

Thanks Mchael, but what's your point?

Unless you're claiming Deism is atheism. Otherwise, you're saying I'm right? or what?

And Paine was an idiot Rousseau-type socialist. So?

AlphaLiberal said...

Chris Matthews has now said that he was the person who said "Oh, god!"

Will Ann Althouse acknowledge this or continue to harp at Olberman?

Link:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/25/chris-matthews-explains-o_n_169876.html

Pogo said...

AL, who gives a shit?

Does he get an extra $1000 in his paycheck for it? A ribbon from the DNC?

Meade said...

"Will Ann Althouse acknowledge this or continue to harp at Olberman?"

Alpha Lib: I must have missed that. Where exactly does Althouse "harp" at Olberman? Or even at Matthews for that matter.

Original Mike said...

"I was taken aback by that peculiar stagecraft blah, blah, blah...

I call bullshit. He's covering for his very unprofessional behavior. What surprises me is that he still cares.

AlphaLiberal said...

Ann, Ann, Ann.

Matthews said "that peculiar stagecraft..." and then you respond with "what's so bad about stagecraft?"

He didn't criticize ALL stagecraft, just Jindal's.

Yeesh.

AlphaLiberal said...

Anyway, I came to share the news on Bobby Jindal's experience with exorcism.

Personally, I try not to judge people by their religion, but I find this to be odd. I guess I just don't believe in "evil spirits."

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I think we're going to dip into 6000 territory.

Ditto. I'm predicting 6400 as the bottom. Lower if Obama won't shut the Hell up.

There are some fantastic buying opportunities right now.

AlphaLiberal said...

Where exactly does Althouse "harp" at Olberman?

By originally saying Olberman said it when it was pretty clearly Matthews.

I interpreted that as quick to lob anything at hand at Olberman.

Pogo said...

Great scoop, AL.
It was Matthews, an MSNBC DNC shill, not Olbermann, another MSNBC DNC shill, who made the disparaging sotto voce comment about Jindal.

Yeah, that makes alot of difference.

Meade said...

"By originally saying Olberman said it when it was pretty clearly Matthews."

She didn't say it was Olberman who said it. She asked which character muttered "Oh, God." She then asked, "Olberman?" with a question mark.

So what do you mean by "harp?"

AJ Lynch said...

Althouse:

Matthews is an expert at almost everything including stagecraft! Heh.

Host with the Most said...

I guess I just don't believe in "evil spirits."

Satan's first job is to deny that he exists.

Meade said...

And Alpha Lib, read the article you cited again. You may want to correct your quote of "evil spirits."

OldGrouchy said...

AL, no, you just believe in your Messiah and drink his holiest waters!

Jeez, what maroon!

Michael McNeil said...

Thanks Mchael, but what's your point? Unless you're claiming Deism is atheism. Otherwise, you're saying I'm right? or what?

Deists who accept only, e.g., “the ten commandments and the sermon on the mount” from the Bible, as John Adams put it, are obviously not going to feel bound by the tenets of young-earth creationism — the Creation account in Genesis not to speak of the Noachian Flood.

Indeed, Benjamin Franklin wrote about the concept of plate tectonics back in 1782 (anticipating the idea of continental drift by more than a century). As he said, laying out in a letter his speculations concerning the origin of various geological phenomena he had encountered:

“Such changes in the superficial parts of the globe seemed to me unlikely to happen if the earth were solid to the centre. I therefore imagined that the internal parts might be a fluid more dense, and of a greater specific gravity, than any of the solids we are acquainted with; which therefore might swim in or upon that fluid. Thus the surface of the globe would be a shell, capable of being broken and disordered by the violent movements of the fluid on which it rested.”

Such changes obviously would take far longer than the 10,000 or so years entertained by Biblical literal creationists.

Revenant said...

The shocking thing here isn't that an MSNBC reporter scoffing at a Republican, but that there was actually anybody watching the network when he did it.

Simon said...

Beth said...
"Simon, Jindal's been in one government job or another since he was in his mid-twenties. He's been governor more than a year and was in the U.S. House before that, beginning in 2004. He ought to know how to speak in public."

I was actually making a joke at his expense, based on your earlier comments, by saying that he's been governor - i.e. he's been being governor - for about twenty minutes [of his year in office].

Egg on my face about the market, by the way - the Dow closed down 80, which isn't such a drop.


Michael McNeil said...
"[Goddamned founding fathers, white males and non-atheists all?] The first three presidents of the United States (along with Benjamin Franklin and many others at the time as well) were Deists."

Which is a non-atheist position, so what's your point?

"As John Adams wrote to Thomas Jefferson in 1816: 'The ten commandments and the sermon on the mount contain my religion.'"

Which is in no way inconsistent with being a Christian.

"Thomas Paine, author of the Rights of Man, explained his beliefs"

There were a lot of problems with what Paine believed about a lot of things, as John Adams pointed out.

Pogo said...

" are obviously not going to feel bound by the tenets of young-earth creationism"

And this has exactly what to do with what anyone has said here?

ak said...

"Did you all see that 92% of the public was "positive" about the speech? That leaves only the loons and nutters on the extremist right in opposition."


Nice try, ace. The positive rating was from people who watched the speech, not from "the public." And the number of people of people watching the speech represented a 12 percent drop from BHO's last TV address.

Michael McNeil said...

And this has exactly what to do with what anyone has said here?

It is you Pogo who made the (spurious) connection between my initial posting, quoting Randy Barnett — who, among other things, said: “No demonstrably creationist politician will be elected President of the United States” — and “atheism.”

As you posted in response: “Goddamned founding fathers, white males and non-atheists all. None could get picked for dog-catcher ion this best of all possible socialisms.”

Thereby implying that the founding fathers were fundamentalist creationists. Which is wrong; Deists do not and did not believe that Bible literalist cr--.

As far as I can see here, Pogo, you're just dissembling in this unending back and forth. You know what you said.

Beth said...

So I assume Althouse and others here are fine with Matthews' comment. He's a pundit, not a reporter, after all. I see no difference between his "Oh God" and any blogger's delight in Obama's Greek Temple, for example.

Matthews is a blowhard. This is nothing new.

Beth said...

I was actually making a joke at his expense, based on your earlier comments, by saying that he's been governor - i.e. he's been being governor - for about twenty minutes [of his year in office].

I'm a numbskull, and that IS funny.

By the way, while I'm here, I should make it clear I think Matthews is a farce. The combination of this comment, and his repeated use of "outsource" in connection with Jindal is no less than I would expect of him.

But it was hokey "stagecraft." And creepy. And weird.

Frumson Wooters said...

I've always enjoyed the photograph accompanying this post, sort of a "Siegessäule Heil" moment.

BJM said...

"Oh God" indeed.

George Will and the word sex in the same sentence.