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Yes, Wright's remarks were taken out of context, as he put it.I'm down with that.
Their intention was to use me as weapon of mass destruction.If that is the case, Obama’s election proves that his (Wright’s) ‘God Dam America’ sanctions did not to have any teeth ;)
And his intention was to damn America.But he's on the good side, so any hate he spews is good-hate, not the bad-hate the other guys spew.
You just can't make this stuff up. Now that Barak Hussein Obama is the next President, all the stuff he kept hidden and all the folks he threw under the bus can come out of the shadows and disgust us with their true, revealed nature.4 years of G-d D*mn AmeriKa.Barak ... about to rub it in the face of America. Why not?
I've gotta' hope he comes out of retirement and gives the nation a daily bile-filled rant. It'll be could for our souls.
In an impassioned speech about faith and race, the Democrat at first expressed support for Wright, saying that "I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother."But six weeks later during a speech at the National Press Club, Wright offered eyebrow-raising opinions about the U.S. government, praised Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan and hinted that Obama was distancing himself from the pastor for political expediency.The next day, Obama disowned his white grandmother.
Considering that Obama has set himself up to be the political reincarnation of Jimmy Carter, I think we know who's likely to take on the role of brother Billy...
That was pragmatism, Meade!
Just because the ship is safely in harbor now doesn't mean they've tied down this loose cannon! Attention seekers will find a way to still make a noise!
Clinton had his "bimbo eruptions" and now Obama will have his eruptions too. I'm not sure what is as euphonic as "bimbo eruptions", how about "radicals re-emerging"?Maybe we could have a contest?
Althouse did you see William Ayers was very chatty the day after the election too?
Wright doesn't matter any more, unless Obama loses his mind and brings him to Washington. The next time we're called upon to judge Obama's character he'll have an actual record for us to go by, and we won't have to resort to proxies.
Paul Z.I agree with that.
I'm just glad the Republicans decided to elect a man whose a "socialist" and "pals around with terrorists" rather than besmirch McCain's personal honor by bringing up Wright.Maybe Wright can say a prayer at the Inaugural.
Paul Z - Good point. So far Rahm is not making me feel like BHO is exactly going to bring about change without a jackbooted thug or two.-XC
Ayers has said essentially the same thing since the election.They're both right. They were critical to the R and professional-conservative strategies. Fear.P.S.I somewhat recall Wright saying something like this before he went underground.P.P.S.Is Beck insane? Today he was rolling out some conspiracy theory that explained our current circumstances as the final stages of a plan Stalin and other patient communists hatched long ago. Supposedly these schemers planned to get our government to take over the economy in increments. My favorite aspect of this sort of professional-conservative communism fear mongering is that there can be no mention of the fact that the growth of government is actually pushed by capitalists. Companies have long ago realized that the government is a money pit ripe for the the picking.But, the professional conservatives can't acknowledge that corporations are living off the government for profits. It should be obvious that the corporations have a real financial motivation for their lobbying and contracting with the government.But, the professional conservatives can't speak ill of corporations so they must pin the blame on liberals who are motivated by hate of America, or vain power grabs, or some other psychological motivation. But, the problem couldn't possibly be that corporations are working the government for maximum profitability, as is their fiduciary requirement, i.e. their reason for existing. No, the professional-conservatives couldn't say that.
Some interesting theorizing here to the effect that Emanuel's jackboot will be applied mainly to the heinies of congressional Democrats. Me, I don't know.
Hard to make a WMD without something toxic to start with.
I don't see Emanuel doing anything but advancing the far left lib agenda. To spin his selection as some sort of Maginot Line against the Kos Kossacks is a fantasy. That is just the MSM trying to disperse the meme that Obama's White House is not far left liberal. Let's wait and see whether Obama's brain or his heart rules his own admministration.
"They're both right. They were critical to the R and professional-conservative strategies.Fear."Sometimes fear is justified. I like how Democrats and assorted liberals like to pretend that invoking "fear" in voters is solely a tactic of evil conservatives. Democrats never trade in fear.
"Hard to make a WMD without something toxic to start with."Exactly right... or Wright as the case may be. The Obama campaign certainly treated him as if he were radioactive.
PZ - keeping Democrats corralled will be the bigger challenge - I'm seeing from a few liberal columnists already. The pressure's on from the left.
"Let's wait and see whether Obama's brain or his heart rules his own admministration."Or wait and see whether he has either organ to begin with.
"Wright doesn't matter any more, unless Obama loses his mind and brings him to Washington."If Wright or Ayers step foot in the White House, American Revolution 2.0 is on. Big time.
You can't trust whitey. He'll twist "God Damn America!" into a bad thing.
Why can't Wright be one of the good preachers like Jerry Falwell, who knew that when God punishes America, it's for homosexuality rather than social injustice.
hilary used him as a WMDMcCain refused to, and refused to let the campaign do it
McCain refused to, and refused to let the campaign do itHe would have if he'd thought it would help.
Doyle, good one, right on target. Before God punished America for Homosexuality he would punish us for all the Christians that look at Internet porn. There is a branch of Christianity that likes to put a hierarchy around sin, and the bad ones are always the ones those people don't do so much.Trey
The thing that bothers me is the idea that it's somehow unusual for a religious figure to make criticisms of the state. It's kind of a long tradition, and calling it "hate speech" is just achingly stupid.Wright's conspiracy theories and soft spot for Farrakhan are obviously unfortunate, but he's hardly the demonic figure the wingnuts have been trying so hard to portray him as.
I seem to remember Jerry Falwell being thrown under a bus sometime in 2001.
You remember wrong.
Palladian,Of course the Ds ran on fear. Fear of the economy falling apart. Issue based fear. [And, one part of the R party fear machine was substantive, i.e. the fear of BHO being new on the national and international stage.] But, the way Rs rely on fear instead of relevant issues is the problem. Did y'all really think you should be elected because BHO's pastor had said a few nutty things when BHO wasn't in church. And, should a couple weeks of the R campaign strategy be dedicated to noting that BHO (and many others including Rs) crossed paths on boards and panels with a neighborhood professor who was a terrorist when BHO was seven.Many of you strongly feel that these are reasons McCain should have been elected. That's precisely your problem. But, you can't fathom it, even though it's right in front of you. Your governing philosophy is bankrupt. You don't argue policy. You use personal, ancillary attacks to create fear.Even when Rs try to talk policy you need to use hyperbole because your concepts don't stand on their own. Folks weren't buying trickled down, so rather than offer something other than trickled down y'all stuck with trickled down but called going back to WJC tax rates socialism. What would y'all have run on if you didn't have vitriol? That's what y'all should be working on. Go through thought experiments where you pretend that you can't rely on fear mongering and vitriol. What kind of policies could you develop that would be good for the country and win voters if you could not rely on the crutch of personality based fear mongering and vitriol?I see two problems. One, I don't think the R party powerful want anything but trickle down. Two, the professional-conservatives that many of you follow are in the personality based fear mongering and vitriol business.In both situations the folks running your party have a direct financial interest in not changing.
doyle: "Wright's conspiracy theories and soft spot for Farrakhan are obviously unfortunate, but he's hardly the demonic figure the wingnuts have been trying so hard to portray him as.""Unfortunate"?If McCain had chosen to make a right-wing analog of Wright his mentor and spiritual adviser for 23 years, it would be so fucking "unfortunate" that McCain would not be in office of any sort right now, he would rightfully be a pariah, and his Senate seat would have been won by a democrat.
The right wing analogue of Wright is called the Religious Right and it's wielded considerable power in America for many years, especially in Republican administrations.
For god's sake I wish Althouse would ban/delete Doyle once and for all. He's back to posting like it's his own blog. I mean "doyling" like it's his own blog.
For god's sake I wish Althouse would ban/delete Doyle once and for all. He's back to posting like it's his own blog. I mean "doyling" like it's his own blog.I think she did ask him to leave at one time never to return again but like Michael (aks Luckyoldson) he's like herpes, they just never really goe away. Always under the surface ready to flare up.
But Doyle has a point. Jerry Falwell called Tinky Winky a faggot once so there you go.
Their intention was to use me as a weapon of mass destruction.That’s a disappointing metaphor coming from a man of high learning and distinction.Better he should have said their intention was to use him as the rope in a high-tech lynching.
Doyle believes that the religious right is analogous to Wright and his theology based upon Dr. Cone's Black Liberation Theology. Right.Here are but some of the ideas and concepts which formed the basic theology of Obama's church:"The time has come for white America to be silent and listen to black people. . . . All white men are responsible for white oppression. . . . Theologically, Malcolm X was not far wrong when he called the white man 'the devil." And:"White supremacy is so clever and evasive that we can hardly name it. It claims not to exist, even though black people are dying daily from its poison"And, least we forget:"Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. ... Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy.""Destruction of the white enemy". Doyle, do you "hope" for such a "change" as well?
Oh, and doyle, all those quotes come from Dr. Cone's book, "Black Theology & Black Power". Also, fyi, Dr. Cone told McClatchy: "Cone said blacks shouldn't limit their hope to what the Republican and Democratic parties stand for. Then he posited a thought that voters are unlikely to hear from Obama:"Together, black religion and Marxist philosophy may show us the way to build a completely new society. ... Asked about that, Cone said: "I want to change society. I was searching for my way forward. I want a society in which people have the distribution of wealth, but I don't know how quite to do that institutionally."
Yes Black Liberation Theology is just what the country needs to heal the racial rifts... My god, how insane could people be to overlook this. Also Althouse, you are as guilty as the rest of them for voting in this creep. You won't get away with "cruel neutrality" games with me.
And here I thought the purpose was merely to expose Wright as a disgusting racist.
This comment rightfully belongs in the Kenyans are naming kids Barack thread, but that's gone stale, so I'll put it here.Each day (almost) I read the obits of my hometown paper. Today there is the obit of Edythe Irene Jones (not the real last name), who was born in 1917. Her twin brother's name? Woodrow Wilson Jones.
Conservatives need to keep pounding the Rev Wright thing every single day. Without stop.
"For god's sake I wish Althouse would ban/delete Doyle once and for all. He's back to posting like it's his own blog. I mean "doyling" like it's his own blog."Granted, I've only been posting here recently, although I've been following this blog for a long time - but this is the kind of post that gets me flummoxed.I get the fact that trolls are a problem, and I certainly have become more frustrated with the left, but why should someone expressing an opinion in a non-disrespectful way be banned? How is that any different than the criticism you level at the far left? I love this site, and I think the people that make comments here are incredibly witty and clever, but sometimes I think people get so invested in their own side that they see they're guilty of the same things that they criticize in others.I know I'm stating the obvious. But I do think what makes this blog so interesting is that you get to hear from both sides. Who wants to come to a place that's an echo chamber for any one side.
"Conservatives need to keep pounding the Rev Wright thing every single day. Without stop."It is not about Wright - it is about Obama and his judgment. Period. Wright is what he is. We know it and Obama knew it long, long before we did. The issue is that Obama's choice of Wright as a mentor and spiritual adviser and his support of Wright's theology tells us a great deal about Obama's judgment.
The issue is that Obama's choice of Wright as a mentor and spiritual adviser and his support of Wright's theology tells us a great deal about Obama's judgment.Scooooooreboooooaaaard!
The next day, Obama disowned his white grandmother.Stay classy, jerk.
Yeah, I respect and tolerate people who question authority and the government just fine. But I can't stand bigots and racists like Jeremiah Wright. That he pretends to be a pastor and a Christian is even more offensive to me.Trey
Wright wasn't a weapon of mass destruction. He was a weapon of mass nonsense. Just like his fraudulent little ward, Mr. Barely.
"I get the fact that trolls are a problem"Doyle's question here is pretty sedate. His pattern has been otherwise quite abusive, so now when he returns and puts on his smiley face it's hard to give him any benefit of the doubt.His scorched earth policy will be back soon enough, once the post-election detumescence gives way to the realization that he had a serious case of beer goggles.
Doyle: "Scooooooreboooooaaaard!"I forgot to mention that Obama's poor judgment wrt Wright when combined with his voting "present" so often is indicative of a man who is very indecisive and needs someone strong to tell him what to do. And according to the Chicago Tribune in 2007: "The senator does check with his pastor before making any bold political moves." Gee. What a shock.
"I know I'm stating the obvious. But I do think what makes this blog so interesting is that you get to hear from both sides. Who wants to come to a place that's an echo chamber for any one side."It's not substance but style. Haven't you noticed that Doyle's a little... dyspeptic?I don't actually care. He doesn't bother me and I don't think he's destructive like "Michael". Plus he's not very smart so it's nice to have him around to beat up on.
Plus he's not very smart so it's nice to have him around to beat up on.I took a dump this morning that could beat you on Jeopardy!
So, are they back to being friends and brothers again? Did he emerge from the large crowd under the bus?It would be nice to hear The One (PBUH) say something about it.
"Why can't Wright be one of the good preachers like Jerry Falwell, who knew that when God punishes America, it's for homosexuality rather than social injustice."The comparison is apt.My pastor condemned Jerry Falwell from the pulpit for his statements after 9-11.Barak sat in the pew and listened... probably said "Amen" when Wright paused for an "amen."
Anubody here who whines about Wrights and any of what they refer to as "hate he spews" must not have been listening to John McCain, Sarah Palin and their minions over the past 6 months.I think the disgusting manner in which McCain ran his campaign will linger in the minds of Americans for quite some time.And it's just another of the many reasons McCain got his ass handed to him.*Oh, and I love how people like Bachmann in MN is suddenly so supportive of Obama. What a joke.
Speaking of preachers:This evening James Dobson's Focus on the Family Action sent out a fundraising email to members that likened the victories of Barack Obama and congressional Democrats in Tuesday's election to the Nazi bombing of England during World War II. The author of this vile letter is Tom Minnery, Senior Vice President of Focus on the Family Action.
MichaelTroll - you're the most hateful one here. So it's very funny to see you accusing others of hate. You POS.
'Tis okay... Michael lives in a world without mirrors.
"Anubody here who whines about Wrights and any of what they refer to as "hate he spews" must not have been listening to John McCain, Sarah Palin and their minions over the past 6 months."You know, I'm not sure I ever buy the rhetorical device of absolving someone of responsibility by saying someone else did it, too. I'm just not sure how you can explain away the fact that Obama sat in that church for all those years, and never publicly disavowed any of Wright's statements. In fact, he said that he didn't hear them. Which I find pretty remarkable. Don't you think that this is intellectually dishonest? Wouldn't you say that this, and the fact that Obama said Wright was his mentor, tells us something about his character?
probably said "Amen" when Wright paused for an "amen."I bet you probably cheered for the skinheads in American History X. See how easy it is to smear people with baseless speculation?
I'm just not sure how you can explain away the fact that Obama sat in that church for all those years, and never publicly disavowed any of Wright's statements.It's not his responsibility. We are not presumed to agree with everything our teachers/pastors/bosses say.
No, but he claimed this man was his mentor.And I am not a religious person, but wouldn't you walk out and go to a different church if you believed what your preacher said was offensive?
And I am not a religious person, but wouldn't you walk out and go to a different church if you believed what your preacher said was offensive?Well obviously not everything Jeremiah Wright says is offensive. SOME of what he has said is pretty offensive, but I think most grownups wouldn't have a big hissyfit about it.
doyle - some things are so evil and repugnant that if you had any moral sense you'd get up from that pew and walk out. That is what adults do.
Yeah yeah. I'd love to hear more about your moral sense but I got a thing.
Doyle: "It's not his responsibility. We are not presumed to agree with everything our teachers/pastors/bosses say."Whether Obama agrees with Wright or not he has not repudiated the undeniably bigoted, hateful theology of Wright's church, nor even explained why he tolerated it for so long.Even though Obama did not create the bigoted underpinnings of TUCC, he certainly supported that theology by his attendance and tithing for over 20 years.
Are you Wright attackers going to be at this stuff for the next four years?It is soooooooooo boring at this point.blah, blah, blah.But, Doyle certainly is demonstrating great fortitude with his willingness to entertain your unwavering Wright-outrage. (Though, I think he's showing some signs of boredom with this stuff.)
But, Doyle certainly is demonstrating great fortitude with his willingness to entertain your unwavering Wright-outrage.Actually the Wright-outrage is entertaining me :-)But seriously, I just hope black radicals don't successfully enslave the white race. That'd be bad.
Hey, look, I just admired that he made the trains run on time--what's a little fascism among friends?
alex, I posted something Dobson sent out.He's a preacher.What does what HE says have to do with ME?
15 straight months of increased unemployment, long term unemployment at a 25 year high, banks going belly up on a daily basis, GM damn near bankrupt...and the same ol' pack of wingnuts here are still crying about Wright.Give it up.It's over.Obama is President.Try to be Americans.
"Are you Wright attackers going to be at this stuff for the next four years?"To be clear for those like you who refuse to address the real issue, it is not about Wright - it is about Obama and his judgment vis-a-vis Wright. And please explain why some of Obama's biggest life decisions (choice of mentor, choice of church to attend and support, location of his marriage, etc.) doesn't tell us anything at all about the man and according to you everything we need to know about him came from his campaign web site, a couple of speeches and two books.
blogless,I object to doyle's post-every-five-minutes commenting style precisely because it feels like an echo chamber. doyle's echo chamber.I don't mind when he posts with something resembling normal frequency; he is less offensive than other jerks on Althouse. But he's like quxxo used to be: he posts non-fucking-stop.
"Well obviously not everything Jeremiah Wright says is offensive. SOME of what he has said is pretty offensive, but I think most grownups wouldn't have a big hissyfit about it."People with grown up morals eschew bigotry whatever the source and target. You are missing the point my friend. Racism is racism, the color is not an issue.Trey
Michael, quick question...what church is Dobson pastor of? Which seminary did he graduate from? 'Cause in my "reality-based" world, James Dobson, refers to himself as "Dr.",(some honorary degrees), not "Rev."
Hey, if Wright is relevant to nothing, then there won't be any power behind bringing him up in the future.If he is a testament to a truly dubious worldview and poor decision-making process--though the latter must be challenged at this point, since his association with Wright was an effective rung on the ladder--then there will be plenty of other things BHO does to back this up.You know, kind of like saying, "OMG! George HW Bush was a big tax-and-war guy! And W 'hangs out' with him!" Kind of pointless after NCLB, Part D and Afghanistan and Iraq.
It's clear the lefties here are afraid to discuss the important issue of Obama's demonstrated poor judgment.No surprise there as the man they elected exists only in two books, a campaign strategy, and his supporters imagination.
Well obviously not everything Jeremiah Wright says is offensive. SOME of what he has said is pretty offensive, but I think most grownups wouldn't have a big hissyfit about it.He didn't *notice*.That isn't something I made up... it's what Obama himself said. He went to that church for 20 years and he didn't find anything offensive at all because he *never heard it.*I *noticed* what my pastor said after 9-11. On at least two occasions I've approached ministers after the service to tell them they were wrong. I recall what they'd said and what they were wrong about and what I said to them to correct them. When I disagree, but not to the point where it's necessary to speak up, I still remember what I disagreed with. I could explain how my views differed from any pastor I had for more than just a couple of years, anyone I had time to *know*. Obama didn't or couldn't.
I think it would be interesting to hear Obama explain where he differs from Ayers, too.But if he never heard what Wright was saying he certainly never had a discussion of any sort about politics or education with Ayers.It's easier just not to know people I guess.
"James Dobson, refers to himself as "Dr.",(some honorary degrees), not "Rev."I believe that Dr. Dobson is licensed clinical psychologist and that he got his degree the old fashioned way: he earned it.Trey
You know, I continue to believe that Wright got a bad shake. He said some dumb things and is an odd duck. But the hate generated at him is based on a grand total of about 2-10 seconds of video replayed thousands of times. What if they had played, for that legendary balance, scenes of Rev Wright preaching love and forgiveness? (I think even Dobson preaches that from time to time). But now I'm harder pressed to say there's a lot of racism in America that whites know nothing about and blacks, too much. In the past tense, certainly. But racism took it to the chin this week and we came out looking grand. (And, if you guys want to keep obsessing on Wright for a few years, maybe that's not such a bad thing).
Alpha, I absolutely agree with you that Wright probably said a lot of good things in church, and that we are focusing on these negative ones. But Obama's excuse wasn't that - it was that he said he wasn't aware Wright had said these things. Kind of like Clinton saying he didn't inhale. (And before you assume otherwise, I voted for Clinton, and I was a Hillary supporter although I have lots of reservations about her, too.)It just seems like Obama supporters make such excuses for every negative thing about him, instead of just saying, "Yeah, that's a character flaw, but I like him anyway.".
Alpha: "But the hate generated at him is based on a grand total of about 2-10 seconds of video replayed thousands of times."Relative to the election, myself and many others could not care less about Wright per se, as he has every right to say whatever disgusting, hateful, racist things he wants. The issue is that Obama chose to spend 23 years immersed in a bigoted, racist, hateful theology as created by Cone and instilled and preached by Wright - not "2-10 seconds of video". Again, the issue is not Wright. He is just the person who gave us the insight into Obama's life. The issue was, is and always will be Obama's judgment and perhaps true values.
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