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How incredibly vapid of black voters.Remember, this is the same phenomenon that allowed OJ to be acquitted.I'm still not sure why our country should be at all proud of Obama being elected as the first black president. His other virtues and qualities notwithstanding, being the first black president seems to me to be not a very inspiring example of how people vote based on nothing to do with qualifications, phiiosophy, or even political power. I have a dream that someday men will be judged by the content of their character, not the color of their skin. It seems we're no closer to that than before.
Oops, I meant "political party," not "political power."
Far and decent?www.forgotten-ny.com
""So, I'm like, 'show me a door, God' and God's like, 'there is a crack in the door' and I'm like, 'maybe I'll plow through that door,' and God's like, 'sure' and I'm like, 'but is it good for Alaska' and God's like, 'do you want a sign' and I'm like, 'fer sure' and God's like, 'okey doke' and I'm like, 'I'm gettin' ready to plow,' and God's like, 'well slow down there, Nellie' and I'm like, 'no way dude' and God's like, 'stop' and I'm like, 'no way' and God's like, 'yes way' and I'm like. . ."
"I have a dream that someday men will be judged by the content of their character, not the color of their skin. It seems we're no closer to that than before."Seriously? And your other choice was McCain? And let's examine the content of his character ... HE PICKED SARAH PALIN AS A RUNNING MATE ... A COMPLETE MORON OF A WOMAN, JUST TO APPEASE THE FOX-NEWS-WATCHING RELIGIOUS RIGHT ...WHAT EXACTLY did McCain stand for that seems to be superior as to what Obama stands for? Those who question the virtues and qualities of others should perhaps re-examine their own ...
skyler - I have a dream that someday men will be judged by the content of their character, not the color of their skin. It seems we're no closer to that than beforeBlacks generally detest white conservatives that use that King platitude, because they know that the same crowd hated 90% of the rest of what King said.
Oh, so now the most powerful sentiment of King is a "platitude" and officially off limits for use by whites. How awfully convenient for racists.
I think that should be "far and distant."
Simple - it's the post-racial post-election Post Toasties bounce.Wait till word gets around that Obama isn't in fact really black. And that he's (warning: code word ahead) metrosexual. A... married metrosexual. Then, the percentage of self-identifying black voters who see American society as unfair and indecent will quickly bounce back up to the normal 76% and we can all share a good laugh about this whole Change hooey.
Yep; easy to explain. They had their orgasm on November 4th, and now they're enjoying the afterglow. Come January and the Christmas season's credit-card bills, they'll all decide that Obama's a bastard after all (and worse--a race traitor.)
It's not racist to hate conservatives. Especially when they're the dumb, shallow, follow-the-most-arbitrary-example-of-an-authoritarian-leader type of conservative.Conservatives and conservative intellectuals, on the other hand, who got through November 4th with their brains (and person) intact are welcome anytime: i.e. Kathleen Parker, George Will, David Frum, Ross Douthat, etc. NRO can have its own little fantasy club all to its lonesome self.
Two days after Barack Obama became the first African-American to be voted into the White House, the percentage of black voters who view American society as fair and decent jumped 18 points to 42%It's not difficult to understand why this is the case.You have a group of people that have acrease to the worlds most elaborate conditioning. The hero myth always needs a Lincoln, a J.F.K, an M.L.K (Clinton - the first black president) and now Obama. . . they'r allways on call. . . the problem is they die off and someone else has to replace them.So the reality becomes a racial ground hog day for ever and ever until nobody realizes the tediousness of it all. A play that never closes.Everybody just plays their assigned hartfelt rolls.
Typo corrected. Sorry.
If Skyler can provide examples of other modern democracies in which a minority was elected to become head of state, then perhaps he knows more than he lets on about how far people should have come by now when it comes to judging based on the content of one's character.
Montana man,I need not provide any such example. I'm not saying it's a bad thing for a black man to be elected. I'm saying it's a bad thing that black people are so monolithic in their support of other black men no matter whether they are murderers, such as OJ, or simply democrats. It seems that white people have gotten past any reluctance to vote for blacks, but blacks have not gotten past any reluctance to vote against blacks. I don't see this as a cause for celebration. I see it as a reason for continued concern.When blacks start voting based on other criteria besides race, or for the candidate assigned to them because of their race, then we have cause for celebration. Until then, Obama goes into the same category as an acquitted OJ. Very scary category.
I guess we're not post-racial yet.
Oh please, like all you white McCain voters wouldn't have caused a rise in the "fair and decenct" results had the Republican ticket won. Lameness.
Are they reporting on the even more interesting findings?2* When people move to American from other parts of the world, should they adopt America’s culture, language, and heritage or should they try to maintain the culture, language, and heritage of their own country.80% Adopt America’s culture, language, and heritage11% Maintain culture language, and heritage of home country8% Not sure3* Generally speaking, would you prefer a more active government with more services and higher taxes or a smaller government with fewer services and lower taxes?27% More services and higher taxes62% Fewer services and lower taxes11% Not sure
ZPS,I don't think so. If that were true, you (and Rass) could point to instances of that.What's more, I'll bet you see that number rise among the left. Nothing has changed to make America more (or less) "fair and decent" since Tuesday.
Those stats are for everyone in the sample, not just black voters.Note the preference for fewer services and lower taxes. Where were you people when we were voting?
Yeah, Freeman, you almost get the idea a political party could be organized around principles of smaller government.Crazy, I know.
1* We’re just about finished… Are relations between white Americans and black Americans better today than they were in the 1960s?83% Yes8% No8% Not sureWho are these people in the 8% No? That's just nutty.
Yeah, Freeman, you almost get the idea a political party could be organized around principles of smaller government.No, that's wild talk. Obviously the Republicans should become even more like Democrats and remake themselves into the Democrat-lite party. That's the ticket. European socialism, here we come.
I'm gonna love the five-week vacations!The slavery, not so much.
"The RNC had to dress 8 Palin people! not only that but she had an entourage of 18 - 25 that the RNC had to feed and shelter for two months. She was one expensive candidate.There was a voice coach from Hollywood, a tanning expert for the $900. spray on tan, make-up artists hair dresser, preppers, coaches, teachers, stylists, a seamstress (campaign spent $300. on sewing supplies in NYC). "_________________________Obviously it was a smashing success. Nancy Reagan had a retinue of 3 times that many people and never looked as beautiful !
If that were true, you (and Rass) could point to instances of thatUmm, I don't know how, considering McCain didn't win and thus there's no poll of his supporters reacting to his win.
Pathetic, we need to allow victim mentality driven by crass opportunistic liberal politics to come to an end.
Now, after the election, according to Rasmussen, the percentage is 42%.So basically what you're saying is that 58% of the black people in America are assholes?
Who are these people in the 8% No? That's just nutty.8-12% of every poll has goofballs who "don't know", are "undecided", or "not sure".Hell, I even saw a poll that said that 6% of early voters didn't know who they voted for.
How incredibly vapid of black voters.Why is it vapid of black voters? Have you noticed how many black Americans our country is cking up in jails and prisons and saddling with felonies over something so small as getting pulled over in a car where the cops find Chore Boy (something used in crack pipes) with traces of crack on it? The Mayor of my city, today, anounced that starting in 2009 they will no longer give felonies to people who have first or second offenses of possessing crack paraphernalia (which is sold at every gas station in the ghettos). About time! When you give someone a felony for such small fry stuff, you're sabotaging a person's ability to get a decent job. I saw in the comment sections of this blog how the right-wingers constantly laughed at the notion that Obama being elected would go a long way in healing the racial problems of America. But obviously it's already begin to do that! HEaling some of this stuff just wasn't a high priority for the right wingers. And then they wonder why so few black Americans vote for them.
If American society is not now 'fair and decent', then there is no meaning to the phrase at all.Life itself has always been unfair and indecent. Until the last century or so , the history of man has been marked by starvation, extreme poverty, brutality, and the lack of freedom. Life was indeed nasty, brutish, and short. The West helped fix that.For someone to claim that the US remains unfair and indecent shows an embarrassing ignorance of the past, and demostrates the complete success of the Marxist class wars promulgated by the liberal elite in education and the media.So the majority of blacks believe a totallly bullshit thing. Good work, academia! The permanent victim class is flexing its muscle. And just like they did with Hillary, they're coming after you and your jobs. Things will not be fair and decent until you yourselves are replaced with the 'right' people. And they aren't your color, generally.But you'll gladly step aside won't you? Or are you evidence of this society's racism yet?
I would imagine the number will go higher when The One starts filling gas tanks and paying mortgages.
It took me until mid-day, the day after the election, after reading many accounts and viewing many photos of reactions from the previous day, to remember that Obama is black. What struck me, was that fact wasn't lost on African Americans. I said to myself, as a white, middle-class female, "Hey, what do I know about this?" My answer back was, "Well, not much."To me, they get a pass.
How vapid it is to say that this country isn't 'fair and decent' when one is followed around in stores, stopped by police for no reason, seated near the kitchen or out of sight in restaurants, assumed to be a mugger and avoided on the street even if dressed in a suit etc. Bigotry is not an abstract concept for most black people. It is something blacks deal with every day of their lives. Oprah was called the n-word by some guy in the South on her roadtrip across America. Condi got heaps of attitude when trying to shop for high-end jewelry. When crap like that stops happening, I'm sure the numbers will rise. Regarding Obama's strong black support: could someone explain to me why blacks should vote for a party that permitted and even supported the type of behavior at McCain/Palin rallies that horrified the nation?
"when one is followed around in stores, stopped by police for no reason, seated near the kitchen or out of sight in restaurants, assumed to be a mugger and avoided on the street even if dressed in a suit etc. "When young black men begin to have an assault/thievery rate the equal of young asian women, then we'll talk about unnecessary discrimination. Since nearly one in four young black men in America is behind bars or on parole, it's not too big a stretch to guess that the one in front of you is a threat, especially when dressing like a gangsta is all the rage.Or do you mean that people need to be stupid in order to assuage your misplaced sense of guilt and erroneous defintion of racism?Bullshit, Mitch.
Mitch, if all the horrors of police watching and such were still so true, then it would be even more reason to not celebrate Obama OJ-like victory because it would be evidence that we have gotten nowhere in racial relations -- and that is untrue.The point is that if there is racism still in this country, a large portion of it comes from blacks who think OJ was framed and who vote for blacks no matter what their politics or other interests are.
My guess is that blacks tend to vote for blacks because the issues tend to coincide with the black candidate.Thumbs up, Mitch.
Skyler, you quote 'the content of their character not the color of their skin' yet I am hearing from both you and Pogo that because there's criminality among some – 1 in 9 not 1 in 4 – that permits the assumption of guilt of all. You are saying it is right to paint an entire group of people with a very broad brush - even those who have done NOTHING to deserve it. Guilty until proven innocent. I'm sorry but I'm calling bullshit too.I'm not excusing gangsta culture, which I despise. Thankfully, Obama's victory will prove once and for all that there are more paths out of the ghetto than sports and entertainment. Being smart, speaking proper English and working hard isn't 'giving in to the man' but is just part of being an American. Which is why this country kicks ass. I still can't believe we're talking about OJ freakin Simpson. He's a moron that deserves to be in jail, like all other criminals. Good riddance to bad rubbish. I'm still waiting for an answer regarding why someone would vote for a party that openly voices hatred of them.
Mitch, I said nothing of the kind and you seem to have pulled that out of thin air.We're still talking about OJ because it's the same phenomenon. Blacks support other blacks, no matter how horrendous their crime. They vote for Obama because he is black, not because of any idea in his head.This election shows that whites are largely not racist anymore. But it seems blacks are. I don't see this election as a reason for celebration of racial harmony.
"why someone would vote for a party that openly voices hatred of them."Go screw and go to hell, Mitch."Openly voices hatred" for blacks?Typical liberal smokescreen and fabrication, the usal class warfare crap.Bull. Shit.Study: 1 in 4 Young Black Men Is in Jail or Court-Supervised; Author Warns of Risk of Losing `Entire Generation' The Washington Post February 27, 1990
Skyler, I challenge the conclusions you are making. Clinton received 83% of the black vote. Was that because he is black? Or was that because he is a Democrat and most blacks are Democrats? Obama was able to peel off about 10% more of the black votes that would have gone to other parties, including Republicans. I would reckon that the race-baiting and caustic cries of 'otherness' had something to do with it. Black support of OJ had little to do with his race. It had everything to do with having first, second or third-hand experience of police brutality and corruption. Police in the South used to hang out by convenience stores on payday and shake down blacks after they cashed their checks. Let's not forget the recent prosecution of a Chicago detective who tortured - TORTURED - black suspects in the 70s and 80s to get them to confess to crimes they didn't commit. And he wasn't prosecuted for torture but perjury. Investigate what was done. Abu Ghraib in Chicago.http://wcbstv.com/national/jon.burge.arrested.2.845237.htmlhttp://humanrights.uchicago.edu/chicagotorture/timeline.shtmlThere are a lot of good men and women who serve their community with honor and dignity. But there is a minority who do not.OJ's guilty and I would reckon that most blacks believe that now. But given the history's shameful record, they gave him the benefit of the doubt.
Pogo, you may want to cite more recent statistics than 1990. NYT from this year:http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us/28cnd-prison.html?_r=1&oref=slogin"One in 15 black adults...as is one in nine black men between the ages of 20 and 34."Liberal smokescreen? People documented showing up at Palin rallies with Obama as monkey t-shirts and Curious George dolls. People yelling 'terrorist' and 'kills him.' Must have been a figment of everyone's imagination.
kills him >> kill him
JJ wrote: " HE PICKED SARAH PALIN AS A RUNNING MATE ... A COMPLETE MORON OF A WOMAN, JUST TO APPEASE THE FOX-NEWS-WATCHING RELIGIOUS RIGHT"In another post I gave a scientific evaluation of Governor Palin and her standardized test scores that place her IQ at 130. That was a conservative estimate.So what is going on that JJ cannot recognize an intelligent person? We have data concerning her intelligence JJ, all we have concerning you is your penchanct for abusing caps.Statistically speaking, it is VERY likely that you are criticising your better when you say that the Governor is a moron. The term moron comes from the old days and refers to an IQ in the range of 50 to 69. So you only missed her IQ by half.I see no reason to read anything else you say given your very poor performance in understanding intelligence.Trey
Mitch wrote,"Clinton received 83% of the black vote. Was that because he is black? Or was that because he is a Democrat and most blacks are Democrats?"I fail to see a distinction. Blacks still tend to vote as a race not as individuals. I find that deeply disturbing and counter to how our country and our culture should be. When the percentage is closer to the national average then will be time to celebrate because we will have finally overcome black racism.
I was looking for current data concerning race and incarceration rates. It was difficult to find current data, maybe I googled the wrong key words.What I did find was a significant difference between the incarceration rates by race in red and blue states. No surprise huh?Not so fast there comrade! The incarceration rates in conservative states are LESS variable by race than they are in liberal states! The incarcerations rates for blacks are very similar in red and blue states, but white criminals go to jail more in red states!Here is the link: http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/prison.htmThe stats are a little tricky, but a careful reading yields som very interesting information.Trey
Today's Times: "Less than a third of Southern whites voted for Mr. Obama, compared with 43 percent of whites nationally."I guess whites in certain regions are prone to the same behavior. There are lots of ways that Republicans could reach out to blacks and I wish they would. And for the record, I'm a libertarian with more conservative leanings.But to date, they haven't thanks to the 'Southern Strategy' and fear of being seen as 'pandering.' Maybe this election will convince them to take a new path. Oh and I correct myself - that Chicago cop tortured innocents and guilty alike.
Mitch wrote,"Today's Times: "Less than a third of Southern whites voted for Mr. Obama, compared with 43 percent of whites nationally.""I guess whites in certain regions are prone to the same behavior."No, I'd say this is evidence of something other than race being used as motivation for voting for or against Obama by whites. As for OJ, there was no doubt in existence to benefit him. He was as guilty as anyone can be. Blacks across this country ignored evidence, reason, common sense and morality by supporting a vicious murderer. Now the same mindset was used to support Obama. That's nothing to be proud of.It's been a very sad example of the continuance of black racism, and it's probably going to get worse instead of better.
"One in 15 black adults is, too, as is one in nine black men between the ages of 20 and 34"Mitch, your citation states the same finding as my report, but mine also inlcuded the rate of parole, which yours does not. And yours is only an incident rate, how many black men in prision at any one time, not their incarceration rate.From your article: "The number of Black men in prison has grown to five times the rate it was twenty years ago; approximately 12-percent of all Black men in their 20s are incarcerated." That means if you see a young black male, there is a 1 in 8 or 1 in 9 chance he has been in prison. Is it racism for an individual, whether white, black, Indian or asian to be afraid?Why?
Plight Deepens for Black Men, Studies WarnNYTimes March 20, 2006"In 1995, 16 percent of black men in their 20's who did not attend college were in jail or prison; by 2004, 21 percent were incarcerated. By their mid-30's, 6 in 10 black men who had dropped out of school had spent time in prison."
Meanwhile the opinion of the Hillary/Palin electorate...Oh, that's right. They didn't ask.
Forget skin color. I don't want my little retired Mom to have to hand 250K of her CaliforniaPrices house value over to Obama when she sells for the retirement community. It'll make the difference in her being able to survive. I could give you the whole sad story about My Evil Dad and my Mom having to fend for herself at a late age and so ending up with most of her value in her house, but you know what? The only point is that central planning can suck. They cannot take into account every individual case with all the nuances no matter their good intent. All they will see is "affluent capital gain" which is not remotely the case. This is why McCain would have ended up helping my family more than Obama --- despite his rhetoric about caring about old ladies and the middle class.
"why someone would vote for a party that openly voices hatred of them."I'm not sure, but over 40% of white people persist in voting for Democrats anyway. :)
ZPS said...Umm, I don't know how, considering McCain didn't win and thus there's no poll of his supporters reacting to his win. But there have been other elections, right? This isn't the first time we've elected a President? What if the boost in "fair and decent" goes up whenever a Dem is elected, and down whenever a Rep is?IOW, what if it has nothing to do with color and everything to do with party identification? Certainly the news stories run that way.
I am hearing from both you and Pogo that because there's criminality among some – 1 in 9 not 1 in 4 – that permits the assumption of guilt of all. You are saying it is right to paint an entire group of people with a very broad brush - even those who have done NOTHING to deserve it. Guilty until proven innocent. “There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery. Then look around and see somebody White and feel relieved.”-- Jesse Jackson You were saying?
"When blacks start voting based on other criteria besides race..."Skyler, this is really baloney reasoning seeing as how blacks have spent every election cycle from emancipation to 2004 voting for people who were not of their own race. You're barking up the wrong tree. Blacks feeling positive about other blacks is not tantamount to racism - a negative and exclusionary sentiment toward others. And until you have a justice system that doesn't acquit whites for doing something and looking just as guilty for it as O.J. did, then you don't really have any business telling blacks that the justice system shouldn't be just as corruptible to the defense when one of their own has enough money to walk, also.
The party will be going on for at least a month after the inauguration. Then the African American community will look around and ask "when are we going to get whats owed to us."Thirty acres and an Escalade.
So basically the majority of blacks who are not criminals - 3 in 4 or 8 in 9 depending on the statistic – have to suffer discrimination and bigotry because of the minority who are. I guess that's called 'fair and decent.'I guess the OJ parallel makes sense if you think of Obama as our potential socialist, terrorist, racist-in-chief. Some people – and not just blacks - think he has the makings of an outstanding leader. Thankfully it wasn't just blacks that got him elected. I love how easy it is to dismiss party identification in your tsk-tsk-ing blacks and their voting patterns. I guess Clinton really was the black president. After all, blacks only vote for other blacks.
Loafing Oaf 4:11 PM Have you noticed how many black Americans our country is locking up in jails and prisons and saddling with felonies over something so small as getting pulled over in a car...Rarely is my mind changed by a comment, but you've got a point. It seems like 'we' have been living a gotcha game which contributes to the dysfunction and mistakes of the black community. Furthermore, Niall Ferguson in his book on the British Empire writes that in the late 19th century the new British governor proposed that Englishman could be sued in courts presided over by (the few) Indian judges in the British courts in India. This created an uproar in the white population with rather unaccountable concerns about white women being raped and the uncultured state of the Indian judges. He rescinded his proposal. 'As a result, the Indians who had no apparent desire for independence from British rule beforehand, having been treated to all this, joined together and went to a congress (which is perhaps the origin of the 'Congress' party there) and began to seek independence.' In this country, 'others' listen when 'we' slam blacks and don't really stay within the 'illegal' lines of c/o 'illegal immigration.' So 'we' Republicans become a party that blacks and Hispanics become 'independent' of. How's that working out for the Republicans?
Montana opined,"Skyler, this is really baloney reasoning seeing as how blacks have spent every election cycle from emancipation to 2004 voting for people who were not of their own race."I think you're missing the point. This point you bring up only buttresses my claim.In every other election cycle, there was no black man to vote for, yet the blacks have overwhelmingly voted for only the democratic party within the past several decades. Voting as a racial block is evidence that the vast majority of blacks are not considering any issue except their own race when voting.Now that a black man has run for president we see the same trend continued, but rather than being seen as a source of shame among black people, it is being touted as a triumph.This is racism. Voting based on race alone is racism. There's no other word to describe it. And the world is celebrating.Yeah, three cheers for Obama. I don't much like communists so I didn't vote for him, but I can see that whites voting for him in substantial numbers is proof of racism among whites being largely extinguished as a political and cultural force.But the fact that blacks failed to support any other candidate shows that blacks have not transcended racism. I see no reason for anything but shame in that statistic.
Blacks supported the strongest Democratic (not communist, you are using an incorrect definition to score political points) candidate once it became evident that he had a winning shot. It is not racist for Blacks and any other American to feel proud about that. There is racism and then there is racism that is the legacy of a system that legally defined a minority group of people as subhumans. One of those is more obviously much more pernicious than the other, unless the attitudes and feelings alone of some people scare you more than their potential to be (and long and troubling legacy of having been) inscribed into law in order to deprive one's rights and disenfranchise them at the hands of a once-much more powerful majority of people. Further, people of any "bloc" still may vote for a variety of reasons. If Republicans were perceived as being more interested in the concerns of blacks (and many, many others) they might have won and at one time even progressed to the point of being able to field a black candidate. The fact that they historically haven't and currently couldn't is a testament to their shame - and that is a shame that is emphasized by the administration's transparent and politically motivated lack of concern for victims of Hurricane Katrina. Numerical analyses do not obviate common sense and historical/social analyses. Some white people have bigotted (or "racist") views of blacks. Some merely have ignorant views of blacks and their concerns as a group of people. And vice versa. But not enough of them are racist to prevent Obama from being elected. That fact and that fact alone is the point. It says nothing about what every single white person or every little group therein feels and thinks. And we seem to agree on that. It would be condescending to assume that the same way of looking things can't be applied to blacks. But once you are able to show that blacks will use the powerful example of one black man in the bully pulpit as a way to deprive non-blacks of their rights and voice indifference to their concerns, then I might find the pride they feel as a group to be as troubling and perhaps pernicious as you seem to find it, and not before. Thank you for your comment. I have enjoyed thinking about the challenges presented by your arguments in this exchange.
That 24% is lower than it was when the same question was asked in the 1950s.Talk about a SERIOUS lack of perspective!Trey
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