October 9, 2008

It's getting ugly, but is it getting racial?

The new McCain ad hits Obama hard on the Ayers connection.



That's unpleasant for Obama supporters, but is it unfair? Is it racist? From the SF Chronicle:
While Obama's campaign has fended off racially rooted attacks since its inception, analysts say the ones surfacing in the past few days have been more overt, arriving as many undecided voters are making their final decision. They are part of a recent stream of attacks on his background, including his religion and his connections to a former '60s radical.

"It is the Willie Hortonization of Obama," said University of San Francisco associate professor of political science James Taylor....

Instead of using a grainy photo of a grizzled convict [like the Willie Horton ad used against Dukakis], the current attacks, analysts say, are embedded in "coded" language. They cite as examples Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin portraying Obama as a cultural outsider and friend to terrorists and the dismissive way his Republican opponent, Sen. John McCain, referred to Obama at their Tuesday night debate as "that one."...

Regardless, some attending McCain-Palin rallies are responding to this kind of incitement. The Secret Service is investigating press reports that someone might have said "kill him" after Palin tried to connect Obama to former Weather Underground leader Bill Ayers. Some attending McCain's rally Wednesday in Pennsylvania interrupted him with shouts of "socialist," "terrorist" and "liar."

Earlier this week, Palin told a group of donors in Colorado that "this is not a man who sees America like you and I see America." Obama, Palin said, "is someone who sees America, it seems, as being so imperfect, imperfect enough, that he's palling around with terrorists who would target their own country," a reference to Obama's connection with Ayers... Conservative talk radio show host Rush Limbaugh echoed this attack by referring to Obama's "mentorship" by Ayers....
Why is it racial to stir up doubt about whether Obama is a mainstream Democrat? Most of the argument seems to be that because he is black, any doubts about him have a synergistic effect with any racism that happens to be out there.

By the way, there is a new Gallup poll in which the vast majority of voters say race has no effect on their decisions. Yes, of course, people often won't admit it or don't realize it. But the few who do say it will affect them report positive and negative effects that are close to balanced, and yet the positive effect in favor of Obama seems to have the edge. That said, the unadmitted effects are probably much more likely to be negatives against Obama.

Pushing back, we've got James Carville trying to guilt-trip or scare white people into voting for Obama:
Now let me be clear here, if Obama goes in this race with a 5- point lead and losing this election, the consequences are -- bull, man. I mean I don't think that's going to happen, but I think David it's a point to bring up.

But you stop and contemplate this country if Obama goes in and he has a consistent five point lead and loses the election, it would be very, very, very dramatic out there.
Some -- e.g., Rush Limbaugh -- think Carville was envisioning riots. Limbaugh observes:
Now, I want you to imagine if, say, I said something like this or some other conservative anywhere, said, "Yeah, if Obama, if he loses, you know, there's going to be riots out there. The blacks are going to riot." This is what James Carville said. You tell me where the racism is in this country. It is on the left. Here's Carville trying to scare America. He's doing two things. He didn't accidentally come up with that 5% figure. These guys are worried to death about the Wilder Effect. They are worried about the Bradley Effect, meaning they are worried that people are lying to the pollsters, saying they will vote for Obama.

But because they are really racists and don't want to admit that to a pollster, that they get to the voting booth in private, will vote for the white guy, Yosemite Sam instead of The Messiah. So that selection of five points, that's key. I've told you if Obama is not up by ten or so, it's going to be a much closer race than everybody thinks. But for James Carville to suggest that the political immaturity of the majority of the black population of this country is such that they will take to the streets and riot, I hope all of you African-Americans listening to this program understand how that means the Democrat Party sees you.

In fact, I might go so far as to say -- not about Carville, I don't know -- but there might be some of the Democrats that wouldn't mind seeing some riots if Obama loses. Nevertheless that's what they think of you. You are going to take to the streets, going to be Rodney King and South Central Los Angeles all over the country. So there's a fright factor here. There is a bigotry factor here, and of course there is racism on parade all over the place. And once again the racism originates and comes from the Democrat Party.

326 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 326 of 326
John Lynch said...

Code words? If "terrorist" is code for "black," then what's the code word for "terrorist?"

Roger J. said...

Trooper: still not convinced, although your basic point is valid--many more people ate "offal" than did the supposedly better cuts of meat. It was a function of what poor people could afford, and you make do.

Darcy said...

And thank you, Trooper. :)

Phil said...

If we can a agree that unsavory elements exist in both parties, why can't we agree not to pander to them? I read Malkin, NRO and others and they are obsessed with Obamas "alien" nature and past. Daily Kos hammers Palin on her religion.

Why not attack Obama on Universal Healthcare? Why make it personal? Because the GOP knows they can't win without the most vile elements of the party screaming and doing the groundwork and substance and policy is not enough for them.

I would gladly trade every Ayers and Marxist in the Democrat party for a commitment for the GOP to purge their side of racists.

My gut tells me teachers, social workers and college students would still vote Dem, and soliders, hunters and CEO's would support Republicans. (generally speaking)

That is a fair fight and I'm willing to have that debate, but what we have now is a madness and bad for the country. "Kill him!" being shouted at a political rally? Really? Is that what the "party of Lincoln" wants to inspire?

Trooper York said...

I do want to say that I got the reciepe from recipes.lovetoknow.com because I don't want to take credit something I didn't do. I have made it though and it is great.

Although I kind of prefer liver and onions in a vinegar sauce. My wife hates when I cook that.

miller said...

So we have a man (who, as the Democrat Party helpfully points out whenever it can, is black) who has lied like a glove, and who is favored to win the election.

So exactly what proof is there that he will fulfill a single one of his promises, especially considering that he is a charming and facile liar?

Michael said...

Roger, I know what tripe is.

I worked at the Ralston Purina experimental animal feed lab and saw all kinds of wonderful recipes that used tripe as a primary ingredient.

I also know what head cheese is and I'm not real fond it either.

miller said...

How does the Republican Party "know" that slavering mobs oppose Bambi for personal reasons?

Could it be that the opposition to Bambi is based upon the reasoned judgment that he is a fake, a poseur, and a liar?

Roger J. said...

trooper: where in the world do you find that sort of meat? I mean things like sweetbreads, tripe, and lung are not easily found in stores these days

miller said...

The code word for "terrorist" is (shh!) "terrorist."

One man's terrorist is another man's respected professor and mere neighbor.

Michael said...

Miller, Once again:

If only half of what you and others here say about Obama is true, why are so many Americans supporting the man?

And what does it say about John McCain?

Your comment makes McCain look even less of a candidate.

Roger J. said...

although if there is a sizeable hispanic community you can find these at carniceras

Trooper York said...

From the pork store, what we call the salumeria. Or from you butcher. I have a very close realtionship with my butcher who is old school and has a lot of the more exotic stuff.

If you are in a big city with an active Chinatown, just go and shop where they shop especially where the restaurants go to get fresh stuff. You can get everything from sheep brains to octopus if you ask nicely and bring the cash.

Michael McNeil said...

Are you falling in love with me or what?

In love with you? Hardly! I just like to see you demonstrate over and over what an idiot you are — and you respond so predictably by doing so in spades.

As to leaving you alone so you can disrupt and insult folks at will, that's what some here recommend, but I think it's also exactly what you want — and I hate giving you what you want.

Someday you might even get so disruptive that you get banned. Ann is enormously tolerant, so that day may never arrive, but I can dream, can't I.

Original George said...

Darcy--

If you grew up in the 1960s or 1970s, as Sen. Obama did, and you paid any attention at all, you knew who people like fork expert Dohrn and Boudin and Abbie Hoffman were. They were on TV, on magazine covers. Ayers was smarter than others. He kept a low profile.

Now Ayers has served his purpose. He's done his duty for the revolution. He's a martyr for the cause, just as much as these 15-year-olds in their al-Qaeda martyrdom videos. Check it out...these kids couldn't be happier. People do strange things. Unlike them, he hid like a rat when his bombs went off.

While I'm at it...here's a 1990 article in which Ayers talks at length about his educational philosophy while wearing a t-shirt that reads "America is like a melting pot: The people at the bottom get burned and the scum floats to the top."

Look up what Ayers and Dohrn named their kids, and ask yourself what Obama must have thought of those cute names...

miller said...

However, it appears that what is important to people like Reid and Frank is that any opposition to Bambi is strictly due to racism.

Can't help it, conservatives. You only oppose Bambi because of his skin color and not because of his policies, stated positions, or lack of accomplishments.

Mixalhs said...

Okay, scary advertisement voices can't be that effective, can they? Hers is so over the top. It makes me afraid of her more than anything. If this ad ran in my household at night, I'd be afraid. It's like a phone-sex operator gone wrong.

Trooper York said...

And Ernie, I want that black bean reciepe too! Cuban black beans are as good as it gets.

Roger J. said...

Trooper--had not thought of those options. Clearly you are a culinary risk taker. If you run across any recipes for "offal" as the british put it, would love to hear them. I mean, I can only gag down filet for so long.

jdeeripper said...

Jen Bradford said...I thought it was widely acknowledged by now that certain of McCain's physical limitations include combing his hair and using a keyboard. I don't get the fixation.

Yes, McCain has neurological damage in his hands due to the torture that makes him unable to use a computer keyboard or even tie his shoes from what I've heard.

Axelrod played up the computer issue to appeal to the younger voters contempt for out of touch old people.

John Lynch said...Code words? If "terrorist" is code for "black," then what's the code word for "terrorist?"

Barack Hussein Obama?

Roger J. said...

trooper: I posted Senora Albanes' recipe for black beans--if you have pencil and paper I can do it right now

Darcy said...

Thanks, Original George. I just was trying to point out that when Ayers is mentioned in today's press, none of this is really mentioned. Yes, the Weathermen are mentioned but mostly bombing govt buildings and no deaths.

I do remember reading this stuff, but it's very fuzzy, and I wasn't really connecting the dots. So I think that's probably the case with plenty of people.

Anyway, thanks again. Will look up those cute names now...

Roger J. said...

Trooper: copy: two cups of black beans washed. Place in a large pot. cover with water and soak overnite. Keep the beans in the soak water, and add one half each of sliced onion and sliced green pepper. Throw in a crushed clove of garlic and bay leaf. Simmer for several hours until beans start to split and become tender.

when tender, take the other half of the onion and green pepper, dice finely, and saute in a pan of olive oil until translucent. add another clove of garlic finely chopped. Then add up to a tablespoon of ground cumin. (this is the sofrito). Take some blackbeans and liquid from the simmering beans, crush it and add it to the sofrito. Simmer for a while longer and put the sofrito into the bean pot. Stir. Thicken by crushing the beans in the pot. When tender (al dente), add a table spoon of vinegar, salt and pepper to taste.

O effen Lay

Donn said...

Hey, I just saw BHO on the TV....cool.

Jen Bradford said...

Phil - asking about Ayers isn't "personal" in the sense that raising anyone's pastor could be called personal. Obama's resume isn't very long, and his work as a community organizer and board member of various non-profits involves people like Bill Ayers. It's legit.
They can claim it's unimportant, but claiming it's in any way racist or a "smear" is lame.

miller said...

Well, it's an inconvenient meme that Ayers is (is, not was) a terrorist who wants to see America destroyed (remember his statements on 9/11? of course not - no one does).

What's really evil is that McCain is trying to focus attention on this "old news."

He's probably a racist, too.

Chip Ahoy said...

Your many varied thrusts and parries have taken my mind of my scalded leg quite nicely this afternoon, so thank you all for that. Oh, the leg still hurts like mad, but the pain has now been superseded with a throbbing inside my skull.

Trooper York said...

Thanks Roger J, I will try it on the weekend. With white rice and some chicken on the barbie.

John Stodder said...

The bottom line is, of course it's important that "we talk about" Ayers and ACORN and Rev. Wright and the New Socialist Party. And Obama completely agrees.

What, you don't remember him saying this? Well, when he hit McCain with the Keating Five -- a strategic blunder in my opinion, despite the trills of approval from netroots -- he lost any right to complain if the discussion from here on in focuses on his history.

As long as it's truthful, if it persuades voters, it's by definition fair and appropriate. The Constitution protect your right to vote; your reasons are up to you.

Jen Bradford said...

I don't think he's said anything more repentant since that 9/11 article, but to be fair - it went to press on 9/11, before the attacks took place. But he did have to cancel his book tour for obvious reasons, which is pretty great.

The Drill SGT said...

mccullough said...
As for the troop donation, the 6:1 statistic is true but misleading...

The real test will be the votes of overseas troops, not the donations.


The real test is which campaign will attempt in a disgusting and dispicable manner to get military absentee ballots tossed out on Nov 4.

Is there any doubt that it will be the "we support the troops, but End the war" party that again will demonstrate its loathing of both our troops and the democratic process?

Chip Ahoy said...

Black beans are small enough they don't have to soak overnight. It's possible to cook them immediately. Even faster in a pressure cooker.

miller said...

True, he just got caught up in history.

And never retracted or said, "Geez, what a bonehead I am. In spite of the fact that America has done some stupid things, it's still a decent and good country."

Nope. Ayers is someone who wants to destroy America. Too bad Bambi can't seem to shake his scent.

(Is that racist? To point out that Bambi consorts with terrorists? Just want to be clear here.)

Wheeler's said...

McCain/Palin is exploiting Fear of the Other, a sociobiological trait.
Palin's radical anti-intellectualism, anti-elitism, is IQ-baiting, which taps into bellcurve-SES (socio-economic status) resentment.
McCain/Palin's demonizationation of Obama as a terrorist is easily decoded as race-baiting by her supporters with those tendencies.
Neither McCain nor Palin have made any motions whatsoever towards rejecting these supporters.

former law student said...

It's not racial per se, but unAmerican. The impression made on the base is that Obama is a Muslim who hangs with terrorists -- hence Obama is an Islamoterrorist, who probably wanted to fly a Boeing into the Pentagon (like Ayers).

they hit people over the head with the punchline and ruin the ads' effectiveness.

I don't disagree, but I think the McCain commercials' closing 80s videogame music really hurts them. I keep expecting to see Mario.

Look up what Ayers and Dohrn named their kids,

Zayd and Malik? Coulda been worse; coulda been Dweezil and Moon Unit. As far as 60's legacy names go, remember Firesign Theatre?

``I didn't breast feed you for 14 years for this," moans a groovy '60s mom to her ungroovy son Malcolm X John Lennon on the first of 12 albums the group cut for Columbia Records, ``Waiting for the Electrician, or Someone Like Him."

The crime? Young Malcolm X John Lennon preferred studying to smoking dope.

"Now come over here and dig your mother."

Donn said...

Good grief.....what a load of crap just came out of Wheeler's mouth!

The Drill SGT said...

Roger J. said...
The one thing you can believe in is that your military, the one I served in for 25 years, will not take sides irrespective of the outcome. Our military remains apolitical, and that is one of the things that makes America exceptional.


I agree with Roger on the uniformed guys. I have my doubts about whether the CIA and DoS are apolitical though :)

former law student said...

The bottom line is, of course it's important that "we talk about" Ayers and ACORN and Rev. Wright and the New Socialist Party. And Obama completely agrees.

Better than that, even. Here's from Keith Olbermann. McCain belonged to an anti-Semitic organization that supplied boots to Osama Bin Laden, and Palin is on record praising the Iran-affiliated secession group her husband belonged to:

Senator McCain and running mate Governor Sarah Palin have Senator Obama “beat hands-down” on anti-semitic, Iranian and terrorist ties, said MSNBC’s Keith Olbermann.

Former Clinton aide Paul Begala pointed out on Sunday that McCain sat on the board of the U.S. Council for World Freedom, part of the World Anti-Communist League, having joined in 1982 after the Anti-Defamation League called it a “gathering place for racists and anti-semites with links to Nazi collaborators and right-wing death squads.” ... While McCain resigned from the organization due to a stated “lack of time,” he attended one of its events as late as 1986, and the organization continued to use his name on its letterhead ...

Governor Palin’s involvement with the pro-secession Alaskan Independence Party, to which husband Todd belonged, was also criticized. The Governor herself, ... told the organization to “keep up the good work.” Founder Joe Vogler, in 1993, intended to give a speech denouncing “American tyranny” at the United Nations with the sponsorship of Iran.

“If Iran ties and secession do not qualify as terrorist associations,” Olbermann said, the WACL also armed and sent supplies, including boots, to rebels in Afghanistan who would become the Mujahadeen, later the Taliban, and Osama bin Laden...”

Olberman quipped “who knows, maybe [Bin Laden's] boots are ‘Air McCains.’”

The Drill SGT said...

Darcy said...
I just read @ The Corner (National Review) that Ayers and Dohrn raised the daughter of Kathy Boudin and David Gilbert, who were convicted in the Brinks robbery where two police officers were killed.


Not a surprise, considering that was 1982 I think, and Dohrn went to jail for refusing to testify about what she knew about the identity theft of 2 IDs from Broadway Baby, the store she managed in NYC. The phoney IDs were used to rent the getaway cars for the cop killing robberies.

LONG LONG after the Vietnam war was over the Weathermen, Ayers, Dohrn etal were still at war with the United States. They still are, but by different means.

Michael McNeil said...

the Iran-affiliated secession group her husband belonged to

How about a reference to the “Iran-affiliated.”

It sounds extremely unlikely to me that any Alaskan political group would “affiliate” with Iran. Nor is Olbermann at all credible, in my view. Barring some definite evidence other than Olbermann's insinuations, it's just more slime.

Revenant said...

The impression made on the base is that Obama is a Muslim who hangs with terrorist

Whereas in reality he's a Christian who hangs out with terrorists.

Pogo said...

Sigh. No takers on my earlier question for Democrats (Why is socialism so bad that you would deny Obama is a socialist?).

Perhaps one might entertain me and answer this:
Is there anything actually wrong with Obama being associated with Ayers and Dohrn so much that he tries to distance himself from it? If so, what?

garage mahal said...

What's wrong with refusing to testify? I thought that was a virtue with Republicans.

former law student said...

It sounds extremely unlikely to me that any Alaskan political group would “affiliate” with Iran.

The founder of the Alaskan Independence Party was no run-of-the-mill man.

http://www.juneauempire.com/stories/031408/nei_257857638.shtml

Friday, March 14, 2008

Story last updated at 3/14/2008 - 9:39 am
On Vogler, an independent Alaska
By Michael Coppock | Know Alaska?

It was not long ago that Joe Vogler terrorized Alaska politics with his demands for Alaska's independence from the United States. Vogler's cragged face, lined by Alaska winters going back to 1942, would appear from under a ruffled gray fedora as he spat hot acid onto politicians who wanted the same old, same old, for the state.

Vogler envisioned a race of disgruntled Americans turning their backs on the land of lawyers to the south and carving out a new nation from the wilderness.

"Old Joe" and his Alaska Independence Party (today it has the third largest membership in the state and is the oldest current third party in the United States), tried three times for governor.
...

Upset that Hickel was not pressing for an independence vote hard enough after becoming governor, Vogler and his miner friends took out full page ads in Anchorage newspapers comparing Alaska with Lithuania and the U.S. with the Soviet Union. He looked for a sponsor in order to speak before the U.N. General Assembly on Alaska independence. Iran was more than happy to oblige.

Pogo said...

"What's wrong with refusing to testify?"

What's wrong with what Ayers and Dohrn actually did?

Should Obama have sought the endorsement of a woman who cheered Charles Manson's multiple murders and said “Dig it. First they killed those pigs, then they ate dinner in the same room with them, they even shoved a fork into a victim’s stomach! Wild!”, and raised three fingers in a “fork salute”?

Is their violent past, their change to corporate socialists, and their refusal to disavow their radicalism something Obama should be proud of in his long association with them?
Why or why not?

Duscany said...

I still don't understand how people get their undies all bunched up and cry racist when anyone criticizes Obama. It seems that such people are buying into the notion that Obama is a black man because his father was black. How come no one calls him a white man because his mother was white? Obviously the guy is mixed race. Or is race something you choose when growing up, sort of like religion? In that case I choose to be an Osage Indian. Address for sending oil revenue checks to follow.

garage mahal said...

Good questions Pogo. I have some more too:

What's wrong with McCain being friends with and accepting donations from a convicted felon who served in prison for 5 1/2 years convicted for conspiracy, burglary and illegal wiretapping; who admitted to plots of firebombing buildings, murder and kidnapping? Now what? Where do we go from here?


From Wiki:
Additionally, when Liddy spoke about listening to Hitler on the radio, he stated that it "made me feel a strength inside I had never known before. Hitler's sheer animal confidence and power of will [entranced me]. He sent an electric current through my body."

Revenant said...

What's wrong with what Ayers and Dohrn actually did?

Historically speaking, the left hasn't had a problem with terrorists killing lots of people, provided the terrorists themselves were left-wing. Look at the continued celebration of Castro, for example.

blake said...

Is there anything actually wrong with Obama being associated with Ayers and Dohrn so much that he tries to distance himself from it? If so, what?

He can't win the election if his true associations are known.

And that's racist!

ElcubanitoKC said...

chip ahoy said...
Black beans are small enough they don't have to soak overnight. It's possible to cook them immediately. Even faster in a pressure cooker.

6:02 PM


If you get Mexican or Central American beans, you have to soak them. They won't tenderize unless you put them in the pressure cooker for 45-60 minutes, more than twice the normal time.

ElcubanitoKC said...

FLS, political parties generally evolve away from their founders. Case in point, the Democratic Party.

Pogo said...

"Good questions Pogo. I have some more too:"

which means
I can't answer that honestly, so I use logical fallacies.

garage mahal said...

Pogo
I think both Liddy and Ayers are creeps. Why is McCain taking money and still friends with an admitted terrorist? Obama has denounced Ayers. Why hasn't McCain?

The Drill SGT said...

Look at the continued celebration of Castro, for example

Che is an even better example.

Hero of the Revolution, torturer, mass murderer, terrorist, and Doctor.

Revenant said...

Che's a good example, yes.

Heck, Ayers is a good example. The left still can't bring themselves to denounce the man. Even Obama hasn't; the closest he's come to a denouncement of his friend is to whine that pointing out the friendship is racist. He still can't bring himself to admit that Ayers remains an evil person.

dannyboy said...

Code words? If "terrorist" is code for "black," then what's the code word for "terrorist?"

I don't like code words because not everyone has the same decoder ring. Just the other day I was at the pub with a mate and I saw this babe walk in and said "I'd really like to hit that tang." and he thought I was talking about the drink for astronauts.

It's all very confusing.

ElcubanitoKC said...

the drill sgt said...
Look at the continued celebration of Castro, for example

Che is an even better example.

Hero of the Revolution, torturer, mass murderer, terrorist, and Doctor.

7:23 PM


Disastrous economist, worse industrialist, and absolute failure as a military strategist and propagandist (while alive). Yet, he's worshiped as a genius and a peacemaker.

dannyboy said...

Speaking of codes, I had to stop using code talk with an old mate who was in the army. When I'd see an exceptional piece of tail come in the pub I would say "Incoming, 12 o'clock" and he'd end up diving under the table screaming 'COVER!!! TAKE COVER!!!'

It was really embarrasing.

Jen Bradford said...

garage - no, Obama never denounced Ayers. In the same way he locates the war on terror in the Pakistan-Afghan border, he locates Ayers' terrorism as something that began and ended when Obama was a child. In both cases he has been allowed to get away with these bogus constructions.

ElcubanitoKC said...

I want to know who has the key to all this "code". I am definitely out of the loop. I may be using it without knowing, and that really bothers me.

I demand the key! Now!

blake said...

You're not allowed to have the key unless you join the team.

ElcubanitoKC said...

blake said...
You're not allowed to have the key unless you join the team.

7:36 PM


Hmmmm, what are the bylaws?

blake said...

You're not allowed to ask the bylaws until you join the team.

blake said...

And if you're on the team, you can't ask questions about the team.

ElcubanitoKC said...

So, the only rule in the team is that you can't talk about the team? Gotcha.

Bruce Hayden said...

MM: "Thank goodness we can rest assured that if Obama wins, the Republicans will calmly accept it and work to better the Nation."

Arguably, that means opposing most of what Obama proposes.

The Drill SGT said...

Jen Bradford said...
garage - no, Obama never denounced Ayers.


For Garage's clarification: Obama says: "This is a guy that committed some despicable acts 40 years ago".

Not, "This is an unrepentant terrorist who is a despicable person"

dannyboy said...

Che is an even better example.
Hero of the Revolution, torturer, mass murderer, terrorist, and Doctor.


You guys are missing the big picture on old Che though. Think about it, the ugly monkey looking dumbass spent his best years, his sexual prime, not scoring hot Latin babes but hiding out in malaria infested jungles fighting the evils of capitalism to bring peace, equality and a better life to the downtrodden and what happens? He gets gunned down by some piss poor shot of a Bolivian soldier and 30 years later his image is picked up by some capitalist pig and plastered all over t-shirts that are being sold by shitty chain stores in American malls for $25 bucks a piece making someone filthy rich.

Now if that ain't poetic justice, I don't know what is.

Trooper York said...

I always use dry beans so that means soaking them overnight in slightly salted water with maybe an onion and a piece of pancetta for flavor.

dannyboy said...

Beans give me the winds something awful so I avoid them.

ElcubanitoKC said...

dannyboy said...
Che is an even better example.
Hero of the Revolution, torturer, mass murderer, terrorist, and Doctor.

You guys are missing the big picture on old Che though. Think about it, the ugly monkey looking dumbass spent his best years, his sexual prime, not scoring hot Latin babes but hiding out in malaria infested jungles fighting the evils of capitalism to bring peace, equality and a better life to the downtrodden and what happens? He gets gunned down by some piss poor shot of a Bolivian soldier and 30 years later his image is picked up by some capitalist pig and plastered all over t-shirts that are being sold by shitty chain stores in American malls for $25 bucks a piece making someone filthy rich.

Now if that ain't poetic justice, I don't know what is.

7:45 PM


No, not at all. They all had multiple girlfriends while in La Sierra Maestra. He had a wife in Cuba, and more than one mistress. A lot of well-to-do girls threw themselves in the arms of the stinky bearded Argentinian (he was notorious for his poor hygiene)

And there was Tamara Bunke, the West German communist that died with his troops a few days before he did.

There have always been people (male and female) stupid enough to find these people romantic and dreamy. Don't think for a second that there isn't a strong sexual component to the Obama (PBUH) worship. I am not talking about those who support him moderately, but those who do it ever so blindly.

ElcubanitoKC said...

Correction, she was East German.

The Drill SGT said...

I agree with the Cubano. Che got plenty of adoring, left thinking political junkies

garage mahal said...

Jen Bradford said...

garage - no, Obama never denounced Ayers.


He denounced his actions as I did. Still waiting for Pogo, McCain, or anyone here to denounce Liddy's. Liddy is a criminal batshit crazy fascist who brags of shooting federal agents in the head, and of kidnapping political opponents and have them drugged and date raped in a photo-op, and he is McCain's friend.

Jen Bradford said...

garage, if Ayers doesn't denounce his own actions, what difference does it make if Obama denounces them before signing over a fat check for his current projects?

dannyboy said...

A lot of well-to-do girls threw themselves in the arms of the stinky bearded Argentinian (he was notorious for his poor hygiene)

No kidding. Well goes to show what I know about 3rd world commies. If all it takes is a beard, beret and an AK-47, I might just head down south myself. I will shower though. I do have standards.

dannyboy said...

I agree with the Cubano. Che got plenty of adoring, left thinking political junkies


Yeah but you gotta admit if he knew his picture was now a capitalist commodity he'd be rolling in his grave. I mean that's funny.

Pogo said...

"He denounced his actions as I did. Still waiting for...."

Really?
When was that exactly?
What did he say?

dannyboy said...

Correction, she was East German.

That means she probably had a beard too. I saw some pictures of female East German athletes from the 70s and 80s.

I felt completely emasculated.

AntonK said...

I tend to agree with Peter Kirsanow on this:

Obama's Disqualifier

Andy McCarthy's right that it's imperative to attack the premise that Obama's a plausible president. Obama consorted with a terrorist who brags about planting bombs and whose organization planted hundreds of bombs. Some were meant to kill cops. Some were meant to kill soldiers. Some were meant to kill civilians.

Let's put this quite simply: This is an abomination. This alone disqualifies Obama from being president. Even if he can heal the planet. Even if the Dow tanks to 5000. Even if he puts a unicorn in every garage. A majority of Americans will not vote for a candidate who they know has had a working relationship with a terrorist — foreign or domestic. But they must know it.

Americans haven't suddenly become so tolerant of terrorism — and those who are tolerant of terrorists — that we'll vote for a smooth, glib, empty suit because we hope that somehow he'll work some form of alchemy on a scary economy.

This is not rocket science. The facts must be presented. Clearly, concisely, repeatedly. They haven't been.

ElcubanitoKC said...

dannyboy said...
Correction, she was East German.

That means she probably had a beard too. I saw some pictures of female East German athletes from the 70s and 80s.

I felt completely emasculated.

8:12 PM


Just a mustache.

garage mahal said...

Jen
What is it that you want Obama to do to satisfy you? And I noticed you are unwilling or unable to examine McCain's relationship with a crazy convicted felon. I know Pogo can't but you seem much more reasonable and objective than he/she.

The Drill SGT said...

Garage said some stuff...

Garage, my position is:

1. Liddy is a criminal batshit crazy fascist (yep, no contest :)

2. who brags of shooting federal agents in the head, (I think he recommended that if the ATF did an armed assualt into your peaceful house. I am certain he never did such a thing.

3. and of kidnapping political opponents and have them drugged and date raped in a photo-op, (my read is that these were plots, that were not realized)

4. and he is McCain's friend. (really?)

dannyboy said...

Just a mustache.

I knew it.

The Drill SGT said...

Oh, and those batshit crazy plots were hatched (72-74) in the Whitehouse, for which he went to jail as a convicted felon and was pardoned by Carter (77).

Pogo said...

garage, show me Obama's repudiation of Ayers, and I'll answer. But what's the point?

Obama never ever said it, did he?

Jen Bradford said...

garage, McCain going on a radio show or even accepting a campaign contribution isn't remotely comparable. It's not as if he worked with Liddy to spend some $50m and put it on his resume. My God, at least Liddy served time for his crimes.

I hardly think Obama condones Ayers' actions then, I think he agrees with his agenda Now. And it's all about the same victim-obsessed (and yes, racist) idea that school failure is primarily attributable to a lack of funding, or socially conscious programming. He spend millions of dollars on programs which by all accounts accomplished exactly nothing.

Rose said...

I don't get it - do the people slinging the racism epithet REALIZE that Ayres is white?

Do they hear the word 'terrorist" and immediately think "Muslim?" And that's what they mean?

Or is it that since Obama is (half) black, everything that has anything to do with him is racist?

Jen Bradford said...

You know garage, as I think about it, Ayers basically owes his freedom to crazy bastards in government like Liddy who lost their minds and overshot. How ironic.

Schaz said...

The peculiar thing is that about a month ago, I did hear a radio talk show host (I think it was Laura Ingraham) claiming that "the left" was saying that there would be riots in the streets if Obama wasn't elected. I'd never heard any mention of it elsewhere (from the right or the left).

ElcubanitoKC said...

Schaz, there has been talk of riots since the primary season. The funny part, is, as someone else said before, that this card is being played by white democrats. Those, as someone else said as well, are the true racists. They are the ones who consider the black community violent and irrational enough to riot.

Duscany said...

"Obama would have kept up with it, too...but he was only eight years old."

Yeah, but he was 40 years old in 2001 when Bill Ayers said his only regret was that he didn't do more bombing.

If Ayers was a member of the Nazi Party, rather than the Weather Underground, Obama couldn't get away with saying he was just a kid when all this happened and therefore it is perfectly understandable why now he would want to enthusiastically endorse (Bill Ayer's new book on education) Mein Kampf. Obama was no kid when he praised Ayer's book. And if Obama never heard of the Weather Underground, he's not qualified to be president, because there are serious gaps in his knowledge of American history. The truth is, Obama probably didn't much care that Ayers helped found The Weather Underground. A lot of people on the left feel the same way. The only problem, in their view, with the Weather Underground was not that they were fundamentally wrong but only that they went a little too far.

Cedarford said...

Elcubanitoke - And there was Tamara Bunke, the West German communist that died with his troops a few days before he did.

Tamara Bunke - part of a family of Jewish Communists that fled Germany for Argentina. Later, all the siblings, having highest loyalty to the Soviets not unusual in her class of "refugees" - spied as KGB assets on any country that welcomed them. In Tamara's case, that was Argentina, then W Germany, then spying on the Cuban Revolutionairies, then on the Bolivian insurgents for the KGB and following KGB guidance.

After being in Bolivia for 2 years in the jungle...Che` dumped her, from what her letters said -was a severe, oozing case of vaginal and cervical jungle crotch rot.

Fortunately, Tamara "Tania" Bunche was ambushed and fell dead into a river. No doubt sparing her comrades from stinking up the whole jungle, but likely causing a massive fish kill.

Of course, her siblings went on to become noted statisticians and escaped prison in Germany for their loyalty to the Soviets. Part of the reconciliation where Germany, reunified, decided it wasn't productive to go after Stasi or even traitors working for the Russians in former W Germany.

Ms. KGB crotch rot's only claim to fame was that she was the "Revolutionary Icon" that Patty Hearst named herself after - "Tania"

Original George said...

Here's a touching article from Mothering magazine (?) by Prof. Ayers on his non-racist, non-sexist child-rearing philosophy:

"When Zayd was two years old, we marched together in a demonstration in Times Square to oppose pornography. He felt powerful and happy, and only later asked why we were all chanting, “No more corn!” At a demonstration against the US war in El Salvador and Nicaragua, Malik wore a T-shirt which said: “A boy of quality is not threatened by a girl for equality.”

Zayd is, of course, named after Black Panther Zayd Shakur, killed by New Jersey police in a shootout. Ayers' younger son Malik is named after Malcolm X.

(Both are, of course, Muslim names. Malik means king, and Zayd means progressive.)

Can you imagine what parents-to-be Michelle and Barack Obama thought of this white bozo when they learned what he named his kids?

ElcubanitoKC said...

Yes, Dr. Goebbels, she was Jewish, and Guevara was an atheist. What's your point?

dannyboy said...

After being in Bolivia for 2 years in the jungle...Che` dumped her, from what her letters said -was a severe, oozing case of vaginal and cervical jungle crotch rot.

I'm guessing a shot of penicillin wasn't going to clear that up....

dick said...

What I found funny today was in the San Jose mercury News.

There was an article about how the daughter of Ulrike Meinhoff, one of the founders of the Red Army Brigade in Germany, criticized the movie about her other for bing to nice about what she did and that she did such horrible things against the people of the country.

Same issue on the editorial page was the op-ed that McCain was vile because he brought up Ayers with relation to Obama. When you think about it Ayers and Dohrn are the USA equivalent of the Red Army Brigade and yet we are racists for even bringing up the subject. Seems to me that Ayers for what he did then and what he has been doing with the CAC funding of terrorist educational initiatives is at least as vile as Ulrike was and that Bambi should be held to account for that by either totally rejecting Ayers or admitting that Ayers is a friend of his. Saying Ayers was just some guy in his neighborhood does not cut it. You don't just talk about the man you were so closely associated with for years in the only executive experience you have and the man with whom you spent over $150 million to supposedly upgrade the Chicago schools as if he was just someone you incidentally knew to recognize on the street.

The Drill SGT said...

As somebody who was in Germany in the late 70's, the Baader Meinhof Gang or later RAF were the real deal. The WU were rookies in comparison.


50 or so serious events including kidnapping, murder, bombings, seizure of an Embassy, etc

bjm said...

*pointy breasts*

Gees, I had a point...

Oh, yeah

Blogger ElcubanitoKC said...

MadisonMan, in fact, let me rephrase that: What are the probabilities that he will have to veto any legislation enacted by a Congress controlled by his party?


Make no mistake; Pelosi and Reid will throw Obama overboard the second he endangers their control of Congress. Presidents come and go, but Congress endures.

Jen Bradford said...

As conspiracy theories go, this may be only slightly less goofy than the "earpiece", but it makes interesting reading.

Ken said...

It's simple arithmetic. Without an overwhelming majority of African Americans, the Democrats are a footnote. Everything will be call racist. If McCain said the sun was up, the lapdog media would report that McCain liked light better than dark and so was a racist. If Palin said it was dark outside, the Democrats would inform us that this was a code word showing Palin supported lynching since they happened mostly at night. The Democrats and their media allies will tie every offhand remark by every Republican to race. They have to, it's their only real hope.

amba said...

It is the media (whether on their own, or in cahoots with the Obama campaign, I don't know) that are trying to whip up this "racist" canard. Chris Matthews was trying SO hard, he nearly forced the meme down Pat Buchanan's throat -- that the Repubs are trying to make people think about Obama being "dark" and "foreign" and "palling around with a terrorist." The media seem to think that trying to gin up a race war (like Charlie Manson) is exciting. They love to be on the floor during a stock market crash, or in the middle of a hurricane, or a riot. Ratings, you know.

I would agree "ugly, but not racist." It troubles me a lot that McCain has given up his dignity. He should care more about winning the high ground than winning an election; then he'd be likelier to win.

Michael said...

Posted: Thursday, October 09, 2008 3:34 PM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under: 2008

From NBC's Michael Levine
I tried to get in touch via Facebook with Oliver Clark, the man who McCain said probably didn't know what Fannie Mae was before the financial crisis (at Tuesday's debate). Apparently others have done the same. He just posted the following on his Facebook page:

How did I feel about Sen. McCain stating “You probably never heard of Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac before this.”
Well Senator, I actually did. I like to think of myself as a fairly intelligent person. I have a bachelor degree in Political Science from Tennessee State, so I try to keep myself up to date with current affairs. I have a Master degree in Legal Studies from Southern Illinois University, a few years in law school, and I am currently pursuing a Master in Public Administration from the University of Memphis. In defense of the Senator from Arizona I would say he is an older guy, and may have made an underestimation of my age. Honest mistake. However, it could be because I am a young African-American male. Whatever the case may be it was somewhat condescending regardless of my age to make an assumption regarding whether I was knowledgeable about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Revenant said...

He should care more about winning the high ground than winning an election; then he'd be likelier to win.

I suspect the last President to win with an appeal to the high ground was Abe Lincoln.

Michael said...

McCain has become the laughingstock of the entire world.

First he chooses an unqualified fool as his V.P. nominee, then launches a last ditch, thoroughly disgusting and desperate character assassination campaign to somehow make Americans believe they don't "really" know who Obama is.

Over two years of vetting, speeches, interviews, articles, books and live appearances...and McCain wants us to think Americans are just too stupid to "really" understand.

It's truly insulting and when it's all over, this idiot is going to lose the election by a massive popular and electoral vote margin and forever be remembered as the creep he really is.

Michael said...

Revenant said..."I suspect the last President to win with an appeal to the high ground was Abe Lincoln."

How about the high "court?"

Remember that one?

The one who's been in charge as we watch our entire country turned upside down?

The one McCain voted with 90-95% of the time?

I bet most Americans do.

Michael said...

Jen Bradford - Yeah, Obama was wearing an earpiece and nobody noticed.

And Bill Ayers wrote his book.

And Sarah Palin knows more about energy that ANYBODY in the country.

Funny stuff.

Michael said...

Speaking of "EXTREMISTS"...

http://www.crooksandliars.com/

Sarah Palin's dalliances with Wasilla's wackiest extremists
By David Neiwert Thursday Oct 09, 2008 7:00pm

Max Blumenthal and I recently spent several days on separate visits to Wasilla, Alaska, Sarah Palin's hometown where she was mayor from 1996 to 2002. We talked to a number of local residents and pored over a number of city documents, looking into Palin's associations with a far-right political faction in Wasilla. (We working thanks to a grant from The Nation Institute's Investigative Fund.)

The report is now complete and can be read in its entirety at Salon.com. You can also see above the video Max made of his interview with one of the faction's main leaders, a man named Mark Chryson, who headed up the secessionist Alaskan Independence Party during the same time period. It pretty much speaks for itself.

Essentially here’s what we found:

* That Gov. Palin, when a Wasilla city council member, formed an alliance with some of the more radical far-right citizens in Wasilla and vicinity, particularly members of the secessionist Alaskan Independence Party who were allied with local John Birch Society activists. These activists played an important role in her election as Wasilla mayor in 1996.
* Once mayor, one of Mrs. Palin’s first acts was to attempt to appoint one of these extremists (a man named Steve Stoll) to her own seat on the city council. This was a man with a history of disrupting city council meetings with intimidating behavior. She was blocked by a single city council member.
* Afterward, Mrs. Palin fired the city’s museum director at the behest of this faction.
* She fomented an ultimately successful effort to derail a piece of local gun-control legislation which would simply have prohibited the open carry of firearms into schools, liquor stores, libraries, courthouses and the like. The people recruited to shout this ordinance down included these same figures, notably the local AIP representative (who became the AIP’s chairman that same year).
* She remained associated politically with the local AIP/Birch faction throughout her tenure as mayor on other issues, particularly a successful effort to amend the Alaska Constitution to prohibit local governments from issuing any local gun-control ordinances.

In general, we found that not only did Mrs. Palin have numerous associations with these extremists, she actively sought to empower them locally and to enact their agendas both locally and on a state level.

We sent an e-mail to the McCain/Palin campaign asking for their reaction to these findings, and have so far received no response. If and when we do, we'll update.

Michael said...

IT DOESN'T GET ANY BETTER THAN THIS...ABSOLUTELY HILARIOUS:

Palin pre-empts state report, clears self in probe

By MATT APUZZO, Associated Press Writer 2 minutes ago

ANCHORAGE, Alaska - Trying to head off a potentially embarrassing state ethics report on GOP vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin, campaign officials released their own report Thursday that clears her of any wrongdoing.
ADVERTISEMENT

Sen. John McCain's running mate is the subject of a legislative investigation into whether she abused her power as governor by firing her public safety commissioner. The commissioner, Walter Monegan, says he was dismissed in July for resisting pressure from Palin's husband, Todd Palin, and numerous top aides to fire state trooper Mike Wooten, Palin's former brother-in-law.

Lawmakers are expected to release their own findings Friday. Campaign officials have yet to see that report — the result of an investigation that began before she was tapped as McCain's running mate — but said the investigation has falsely portrayed a legitimate policy dispute between a governor and her commissioner as something inappropriate.

"The following document will prove Walt Monegan's dismissal was a result of his insubordination and budgetary clashes with Governor Palin and her administration," campaign officials wrote. "Trooper Wooten is a separate issue."

Monegan said Thursday that he doesn't know what to expect from the legislative panel's own report.

"I just hope that the truth is figured out," Monegan told The Associated Press on Thursday. "That the governor did want me to fire him, and I chose to not. You just can't walk up to someone and say, 'I fire you.' He didn't do anything under my watch to result in termination."

Palin's critics say that shows she used her office to settle family affairs.

"When you're the governor, you leave your household hat at home and you become governor," said state Senate President Lyda Green, a Republican who has frequently clashed with Palin.

McCain spokesman Taylor Griffin, who distributed the campaign's report, said it was written by the McCain-Palin campaign staff and based on public filings and Todd Palin's affidavit.

The report blames former campaign opponent, Andrew Halcro, who has a blog, of conspiring with Wooten to pin Monegan's dismissal on the family's dispute with Wooten. Three days after Monegan was fired, they say, Wooten told his ex-wife, Palin's sister, that: "You guys are going down. Get ready for the show."

Two days after that confrontation, they say, Halcro and Wooten met at a hotel bar in Anchorage for more than three hours — and that evening, Halcro posted the first accusations on his blog that Monegan had been fired because of a vendetta against Wooten by the Palin family.

"It is tragic that a false story hatched by a blogger after drinks with Trooper Wooten led the legislature to allocate over $100,000 of public money to be spent in what has become a politically driven investigation," the 21-page report concludes.

Although the report describes Wooten as a separate issue, the McCain campaign goes into great detail about the "rogue" trooper and his "long history of unstable and erratic behavior." The campaign describes allegations of violence, including threatening Palin's family and shooting his stepson with a stun gun.

The report also includes allegations that Wooten cheated the workers' compensation system. Todd Palin has said he had numerous conversations with government officials about why Wooten was allowed to stay on the job.

"The Palins make no apologies for wanting to protect their family and wanting to bring attention to the injustice of a violent trooper keeping his badge and abusing the workers' compensation system."

But Todd Palin said he never pressured anyone, including his wife.

The McCain campaign says the investigation has become "muddied with innuendo, rumor and partisan politics."

___

Associated Press writer Adam Goldman contributed to this repor

Brian said...

I can't believe all of this racism against Obama. After all, you never hear anyone criticize Bush, and no one ever criticized Clinton, who are both white.

John Stodder said...

Sorry, Michael, but the trooper story is a pimple compared to Ayers. Anyone with any political sophistication can smell a setup like this a mile away. Totally apart from her nomination for VP, she was an unwelcome force in Alaska politics. Establishment Republicans and Democrats who have been scratching each others' backs for years would love to be shed of her so they can go back to running the state the way they have for 50 years. This gambit is a run-of-the-mill example of how to concoct a phony scandal in hopes of neutering a reformer.

You're an idiot for falling for it, an even bigger idiot for thinking it matters, and a swine for making common cause with people about as progressive as your last roll of toilet paper.

Syl said...

Everything Dorothy Rabinowtiz said about Rev. Wright applies also to Ayers. Ayers and Wright share the same ideology and Ayers identified deeply with the Black Man and believes America is an oppressive and deeply flawed nation.

Obama said on radio today that he thought Ayers had been rehabilitated. Doesn't matter. Whether Obama knew Ayers had set off bombs or not, Obama was comfortable associating with his ideology, handing out CAC funds to Ayers supported groups...just like he was comfortable for twenty years with Rev. Wright.

Obama is such a wet fish he hasn't a clue about the water he's been swimming in.

Democrats don't much care. As has been said many times, Republicans shun their terrorists and willingly send them to the chair. Democrats give theirs tenure.

former law student said...

If Ayers was a member of the Nazi Party, rather than the Weather Underground, Obama couldn't get away with saying he was just a kid when all this happened

Hell, the US embraced dozens of Nazis after World War II. Without Nazis there would have been no ICBMs; no space program. Werner von Braun was a member of the SS, and the Vengeance Weapon No. 2 was built with slave labor, mostly prisoners of war. Although von Braun supposedly went to Buchenwald to pick out some more workers, the Amerinazi most complicit was apparently Arthur Rudolph.

Pogo said...

So, garage, or any of the Obama apologists, where is the documentation of Obama's repudiation of Ayers?
Nowhere, that's where.

There isn't one.
Obama rejected his preacher of 20 years and even own grandmother for the campaign. Why not Ayers?

Tells you something.
Party Über Alles.

George said...

--In fact, I might go so far as to say -- not about Limbaugh, I don't know -- but there might be some of the Republicans that wouldn't mind seeing (use your imagination) if Obama wins. Nevertheless that's what they think of you.--

Sorry, I'm pretty "Republican" and I have no clue what you are saying here. What wouldn't I mind seeing?

George said...

---Miller says: "Instead, speak about how funny it is McCain can't use a computer."

I don't think it's "funny" at all.

I think it speaks to his lack of intelligence.---

There you "compassionate" liberals go making fun of a physical disability again. Did you see McCain in the debate? Its obvious that it is even difficult for him to write because of the multiple broken bones his communist captors visited on him.

He's a net savvy politician -- on a political level.

ElcubanitoKC said...

Good morning, everybody. I would like to remind you all that we are *still* ignoring the troll. Sad piece of flesh that has nothing better to do but to copy and paste bs in order to have "the last word" on every topic. As Palladian has said, he doesn't comment in good faith. There are other supporters of The One (PBUH) with a brain whom we can actually debate.

Carry on now, it's Friday!

Michael McNeil said...

former law student sez:
“If Ayers was a member of the Nazi Party, rather than the Weather Underground, Obama couldn't get away with saying he was just a kid when all this happened”

Hell, the US embraced dozens of Nazis after World War II. Without Nazis there would have been no ICBMs; no space program. Werner von Braun was a member of the SS, and the Vengeance Weapon No. 2 was built with slave labor, mostly prisoners of war.


Leftists love to smear Wernher von Braun with the “Nazi” tag (but he was never a member of the party by choice or ideology), whilst giving a free pass (as Chicago Mayor Richard Daley recently did) to folks like Ayers — who really was and still is a dedicated communist revolutionary.

Wernher von Braun's total interest was in furthering space travel, for what he saw as the vital future of our species. Not only was he required to join both the Nazi party as well as the S.S. (whose uniform he basically never wore) or else dispense with what he saw as his enormously important (which it arguably was) life's work (completely disconnected in his mind from Nazi ideology), but when von Braun on more than one occasion attempted to ameliorate the condition of the slave laborers, he was basically told he'd be shot on the spot or added to their number if he persisted.

Wernher von Braun was even arrested by the Gestapo and imprisoned for weeks on end in 1944 without any notice of the charges, because Himmler believed he was a communist sympathizer, that he had even attempted to sabotage the V-2 program, plus von Braun had expressed regret at a private get together of project engineers that they were building weapons of war rather than spaceships.

Wernher von Braun was eventually released and reinstated (as Hitler himself noted) purely so the V-2 project might continue. But even after the first of these conventionally-armed missiles landed in England, von Braun mournfully acknowledged that “The rocket worked perfectly except for landing on the wrong planet.”

While Von Braun did personally select individuals to serve as slave laborers in the V-2 program, those persons had hitherto resided at Buchenwald. Perhaps people can recall what happened to folks in hellholes like Buchenwald who were not somehow extracted out from within.

(As to the charge that most of the slave workers were prisoners of war, that appears to be purely an invention on ‘former law student’s part. Rather, the laborers were extricated from the concentration death camps where slaughter was a virtual certainty.)

Moreover, while the German V-2 missiles killed thousands (both at their targets in England and among the laborers building the missiles), the enormous resources Hitler poured into the project rather than other more fruitful endeavors from the German war-furthering point of view actually hastened the collapse of the nation and hence shortened the war and the ensuing mayhem.

Following World War II, von Braun was largely responsible for development of the powerful Saturn V rocket and others that, among other things, launched two dozen American astronauts toward the Moon.

Wernher von Braun thereby ultimately achieved his life's goal of launching humanity into space and landing men on another planet — arguably among the most important events of the 20th and perhaps any other century (even if we Americans as a fickle people did thereafter fritter away a large part of those enormous gains).

I suggest that had von Braun been spirited away to the Soviet Union after the war, and there built rockets for the U.S.S.R. instead of for America (whether or not he'd become a dedicated ideological communist like Ayers), he would not only have been regarded as a “Hero of the Soviet Union” there, but would be revered by modern-day leftists everywhere, instead of being condemned by their oh-so moral ilk as a “Nazi.”

Source: Wikipedia (since none of my other sources are handy).

Pastafarian said...

Ann, a statement that you make in this post is the most obviously wrong thing that I've ever seen you write: The notion that Obama's race is a net negative is absurd on its face.

How would a white person with Obama's qualifications and personality and attitudes be doing right now?

Rich B said...

Michael-

Has the Obama campaign contacted you for its outreach to undecided voters?

Your genial nature and persuasive arguments sure would be a great help.

Michael said...

Miller: "Ayers is someone who wants to destroy America. Too bad Bambi can't seem to shake his scent."

You're actually saying that, Bill Ayers, today..."wants to destroy America"??

What are you drinking...or smoking?

Michael said...

Rich B - I've been working for his campaign for about three months.

Thanks for the shout out, Dude.

Revenant said...

"If Ayers was a member of the Nazi Party, rather than the Weather Underground, Obama couldn't get away with saying he was just a kid when all this happened"

Hell, the US embraced dozens of Nazis after World War II.

Are you arguing that Obama *could* have gotten away with being buddies with Nazis, or did you just feel compelled to mention an irrelevant bit of US history?

Michael McNeil said...

Obnoxious Troll sez:
You're actually saying that, Bill Ayers, today… “wants to destroy America”??

What are you drinking… or smoking?


Troll continues to lob his obnoxious insults while ignoring the fact that his supposed “points” have already been replied to. So as to prevent his propagandistic lies from standing unanswered in this thread as well, I'll debunk them again.

All one must do is simply go to Ayers' own web site, where he proudly displays a communist star at the top of every page, right next to a rifle silhouette.

At his site, see where Ayers presents his speech in Venezuela (his fourth) less than two years ago in which he lauds the “revolucion Bolivariana” and the terrific job Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chavez (and he is a dictator, legislating by decree) is doing creating something “truly new and deeply humane.”

As Ayers proclaimed in that speech, “We can’t have education without revolution. We have tried peace education for 1,900 years and it has failed. Let us try revolution and see what it will do now,” “La educacion es revolucion!”

“I […] eventually taught at every level in barrios and prisons and insurgent projects across the United States. I learned then that education is never neutral. It always has a value, a position, a politics. Education either reinforces or challenges the existing social order, and school is always a contested space […].”

“Totalitarianism demands obedience and conformity, hierarchy, command and control. Royalty requires allegiance. Capitalism promotes racism and militarism […].”

“Despite being under constant attack from within and from abroad, the Bolivarian revolution has made astonishing strides in a brief period […]. Venezuela is a beacon to the world in its accomplishment […].”

“We, too, must move in and out of windows, we, too, must build a project of radical imagination and fundamental change. Venezuela is poised to offer the world a new model […] — a humanizing and revolutionary model whose twin missions are enlightenment and liberation.”

“Viva Presidente Chavez!
Viva La Revolucion Bolivariana!”

Then, too, just a fortnight ago at his creepy blog Ayers slyly suggested that McCain's briefly suspending campaigning while Congress could attempt to address the financial meltdown was a likely prelude to “suspending” the election itself. Sure.

Thus, it's clear to anybody who is willing to see that Ayers views himself these days as part of the propaganda wing of modern day hard-left revolutionary communism — tossing verbal bombs whilst trying to turn students their way — instead of physically explosive ones.

Much like the Plagiarizing Troll is doing here.

Duscany said...

Obama's relationship with Bill Ayers is hardly old news. Obama was 41 years old when Ayers said that his only regret was that he didn't do more bombing. Ayers didn't mention the Weather Underground's killing of a black cop. I guess he regrets they didn't kill more black cops too.

Obama obviously knew all this when he endorsed Ayer's book on education (if he didn't he's not fit to be president). He just didn't care. Like many leftists he didn't think the Weather Underground goals were wrong, only that they went about them the wrong way--they should have set fewer bombs and applied for more community action grants, like ACORN does.

Pure Waste said...

Is it possible, that Obama's lead could evaporate on election day because of Bradley-Wilder effect? Or nowadays Americans are significantly less reluctant to vote for an African-American? Vote here - http://www.votetheday.com/america/secret-racism-will-subvert-obamas-advantage-333

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