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They are both racing towards the gutter. It's the audacity of what has worked in the past. Too bad voters can't punish both of them by choosing None of the Above.
I do not think the Chicago Machine Ad against Obama is unfair. It frankly does not go far enough. The reason for Obama's ties to Wright and Bill Ayers, was to get in the good graces of Tom Ayers (Bill's father) who is the godfather of Chicago Democratic Politics. Obama down plays Bill Ayers, but the connections were not because he promotes terrorism but because he was trying to get his foot in the door of the Chicago Machine. It is a fair ad.
Yes!!!!!!!!! I have been waiting for McCain to tie Obama to the politically corrupt Emil Jones and our corrupt governor. The Rezko and Daley ties are frosting on the cake.Obama is a product of corruption. He is a product of a systemized and entrenched cronyism, patronage, and unethical governance. It is about time he is exposed for the hope and change fraud he really is.
McCain's bankroller: Cindy's Dad: bootlegger, convicted felon.McCain's contributor and personal airline: Charles Keating, savings and loan plunderer, convicted felon.
Fred: wait; I suspect that association is being saved for later in October. Karen Tumulty took the bait on the FANFRED advisors, and McCain made her look stupid by releasing the Johnson ad after she went nuts. We will be hearing more about Obama's chicago associations. And it looks like McCain is settling in on the Leadership issue. Clearly that is not Obama's strong suit; It would be well to read what Max Weber had to say about charismatic leadership.
JFK's bankroller: His father, bootlegger, had his daughter lobotomized without the support of the mother, should have been convicted.Worse than your depiction of McCain's bankroller but JFK is your saint.Obama's bankrollers: Soros, Pritzker, Chicago democrat machine, Rezko, the Iranian guy whose name I can never remember (Auchi?) - not a clean one in the bunch.
fred4pres,Tom Ayers had not been a power house in Chicago for a very long time. He suffered from Alzheimer’s disease and was cared for by his son. You do not have to like the people or agree with their politics, but the least you can do is get your facts straight.Obama did not need the Ayers family. His clout, mentor and political godfather is Emil Jones. That is the only person Obama needed. Jones plucked Obama from obscurity and made him what he is.
Feh. So Obama is running another commercial tying McCain to Bush again. Wake me up when he gets a new idea.(Besides, the best response to that nonsense is here. Language warning.)Of the two, I suspect the McCain ad will be more effective. Two reasons: first, the Chicago past undercuts Obama's entire "new kind of politician" theme (already undercut by his selection of Biden.) A few weeks of this (and some solid backup in the debates) could strip the glamour from Obama (which is really all he's got, glamour and Bush fatigue.) Second, I also expect Obama to squeal like a stuck pig again, as he always does when people actually criticize him. That will prolong the news cycle as he attempts to blame McCain for being so mean to him. It also sets him up for being weak in the debates if McCain can hammer him on it.
Both commercials were stupid, but I think Obama's was more effective since it targeted McCain's actions. The whole look-who-he's-associated-with meme only goes so far.
JFK is your saintBut he's not running for office, correct, having been assassinated 45 years ago? McCain should be aware of the people-in-glass-houses rule, should he not?"Man is born in sin and conceived in corruption and passeth from the stench of the didie to the stink of the shroud. There is always something" - Robert Penn Warren, All the King's MenPritzkerThe Pritzker family is wholly unimpeachable. Warren Buffett is currently buying their family business, the Marmon Group, and they continue to own Hyatt Hotels.
Legit ammo on both sides. 1. Obama came out of a corrupt machine, but past Presidents like FDR, Truman, JFK, LBJ also did - and it didn't hurt their abiity to reform. Probably helped them, by knowing how the sleaze worked. Republicans also rose with sleaze of a different kind. Close ties to wealthy Corporatists. Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan and Dubya are examples. (as is the whole "Republican Revolution of 1994" being coopted by sleaze-meisters).It hurts Obama because he claims to be somehow above it, as the annointed One who transcends politics - when he was just another reliably voting Daley Machine apparachnik. His "transcendence" was more about rising above the ordinary hack black pol by cultivating connections to the rich, powerful, and intelligensia who were fascinated by what Biden said, was a "clean, articulate black guy" who schmoozed equally well between Jewish billionaires, university drones, and South side race extortionists.2. McCain was a "champion" of dereg and has the main architect of it, Phil Gramm, as his chief economic advisor.Nor can McCain and people like Dubya and Chris Dodd and Barney Frank claim that they were blindsided by this "trust" in the genius of the free market and the "potent" competition between rich people running the banks, investment houses, and hedge funds "keeping the system honest".Since the late 90s, major people warned of the wreck - of each bubble - and Wall Street excess. Warren Buffet was amongst the most notable. Warning about the tech bubble, the "waste" of tax cuts for the rich and free credit for poor and illegals to overbuild and overprice housing stock instead of addressing America's rotting infrastructure, health care mess with that capital. What he considered Greenspan and Fannie and Freddies "imprudent" investments that caused Buffet to bail from them years back.Buffet practiced what he preached. He said he would not invest in the tech bubble because he did not see the underlying fundamentals. He did not let the fiscal resources he invested in overleverage. And five years ago he publicly warned Credit Default Swaps were "a Time Bomb" waiting to go off - and that he had directed his insurance companies to divest themselves of such dangerous instruments.Once again, the Oracle of Omaha is looking pretty good. Shame he advises Obama on "Flyover Country" values while Republicans embraced Ayn Rand Darwinism and bonded with Dem whores to the Corporatists like Dodd, Franks, Schumer. Then came running to demand taxpayer bailout after all their John Galt and Hayek exemplars fouled up so the whole system wouldn't collapse.
I hope they do 2 soon on Fannie Maethe first on Obama's money from themthe second on how McCain fought for more regulation on the GSE's and how Obama voted against more regulationas for Jim Hensley, as I remember, he was convicted of falsifying some paperwork regarding liquor inventory, not in compliance with post-war rationing regulations. 6 month sentence, suspended on appeal.
The Pritzker family is wholly unimpeachable.Not so. Their ties go back to Al Capone. The patriarch was one of Capone's attorneys and he was involved in bootlegging too. Their politcal ties go back to the formation fo the Democratic Machine in Chicago in the 1930s. They have aided and abetted that corrupt machine for decades.
google senate bill s.190 in 2005. Because of the warning of Greenspan, senate repubs crafted a bill to reign in Fan Fred and get oversight. 100% democratic opposition in a close senate means no go. You can read McCain's speech on the floor, hardly a deregulator in this instance. That bill would have prevented this entire bloodbath. He knows when to make a stand, even if it is against his former positions.
I agree that both are negative, and effective.But McCain's is the more troubling of the two: it's about corrupt associations, rather than policy and ideology.A lot of people have a piece in that Obama pie. Someone mentioned JFK, a man who wouldn't have been elected without the original Mayor Daley strongarming Chicago for him.Remember that when JFK and Bobby tried to go after the Mafia? They considered it a betrayal, because they were instrumental in helping Daley "get out the vote", shall we say.Washington needs reform. You can't have effective reform if you have never gone up your own Party and its Machine, and you're handcuffed by the amount of shady people you owe favours to.That's Obama's reality NOW, not McCain, not his father-in-law's brewing distributorship and influence yesterday.Cheers,Victoria
Elliott A said... That bill would have prevented this entire bloodbath. While I agree with your post, this part was overstated. the regulation would have exposed the rot earlier and lessened the impact.agree?
I agree, Drill Sgt. We don't notice the bumps in the road teh same way we do teh bridge collapse.
You can read McCain's speech on the floor"I think you'll be able to imagine many things Senator Biden will be able to say. He's never been the president, but he will put forth his lifetime of experience. I will put forth my lifetime of experience. Senator McCain will put forth a speech he made in 2006."That's Obama's reality NOW, not McCain, not his father-in-law's brewing distributorship and inluence yesterday.I don't understand how McCain's 35 year old POW experience can be relevant, while his much later association with convicted felons is irrelevant. If anything, it shows he's lost integrity as he aged.Obama gave back the tainted Rezko money. Did McCain renounce his tainted father-in-law's money? Or even the tainted Keating money?
The patriarch was one of Capone's attorneys and he was involved in bootlegging too. I like a good scandal as much as the next guy, but this is the first I've heard of this. Can you point me to your source? Was Benny Goodman mobbed up too?
This one, from Wikipedia, got me:"Career prior to politicsJones was a sewer inspector prior to becoming President of the Illinois Senate."
Jones was a sewer inspector prior to becoming President of the Illinois Senate.Now he is one of the people who run the sewer known as politics in Chicago and Illinois.
Hello.HELLO...?????We are supposed to be celebrating the Autumn Equinox.....making wishes, shucking corn, building a scarecrow.The first day of the new season......and readers expect something festive !
fls:"I don't understand how McCain's 35 year old POW experience can be relevant, while his much later association with convicted felons is irrelevant. If anything, it shows he's lost integrity as he aged."Rezko, Ayers, Wright, Raines, if anything that its shows is that BHO didn't have any integrity to begin with.
FLS--you keep saying that long enough and people will forget McCain was a POW! or not.
I doubt if the Rezko, Ayers stories will hold much sway, both have been out there for quite some time...but this might:Senator John McCain’s campaign manager was paid more than $30,000 a month for five years as president of an advocacy group set up by the mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to defend them against stricter regulations, current and former officials say.As president of a mortgage industry advocacy group, McCain campaign manager Rick Davis advocated a boost in minority home ownership -- right wingers' favorite explanation for the mortgage crisis.And the new polls appear to substantiate just that:9/22: Hotline/Diageo Pres-Tracker: Obama 47%, McCain 42%9/22: Gallup Pres-Tracker: Obama 48%, McCain 44%9/22: Res. 2000 Pres-Tracker: Obama 49%, McCain 43%9/22: Rasmussen Pres-Tracker: Obama 48%, McCain 47%
This is the kind of thing that will eventually run the McCain campaign right into the ground...and it makes you wonder who picked these people:McCain camp criticism rife with errorsSen. John McCain’s top campaign aides convened a conference call today to complain of being called “liars.” They pressed the media to scrutinize specific elements of Sen. Barack Obama’s record.But the call was so rife with simple, often inexplicable misstatements of fact that it may have had the opposite effect: to deepen the perception, dangerous to McCain, that he and his aides have little regard for factual accuracy.The errors in McCain strategist Steve Schmidt’s charges against Obama and Sen. Joe Biden were particularly notable because they seemed unnecessary. “Any time the Obama campaign is criticized at any level, the critics are immediately derided as liars,” Schmidt told reporters.But as he went on to list a series of stories he thought reporters should be writing about Obama and Biden, in almost every instance he got the details wrong.Schmidt on Biden's son: “His son is a lobbyist for the credit card and banking industry,” Schmidt said.Hunter Biden’s lobbying clients don’t include any banks or credit card companies. Schmidt: “Senator Obama began his political career in its early stages raising money at Ayers’ house,” he said.Obama held a 1995 campaign event at Ayers’ house, but it was not fundraiser, and Ayers did not contribute money to Obama’s first campaign.Schmidt: “As soon as Gov. Palin was nominated, one of … Obama’s chief campaign surrogates, [Florida Rep.] Robert Wexler, went out and accused her of being a Nazi sympathizer,” Schmidt said. Wexler didn’t call Palin a Nazi sympathizer. He called former presidential candidate Pat Buchanan a Nazi sympathizer, and attacked Palin for allegedly having endorsed him. (Buchanan also claimed that Palin had supported him.)* Asked about the series of errors, McCain aides could not provide evidence to back up Schmidt’s assertions.
Again, a reminder that Micheal was busted making up Palin quotes. Don't trust anything he posts without a supporting link, then follow it to confirm his comprehension.
His Governor? How about his President while you're at it?
I like a good scandal as much as the next guy, but this is the first I've heard of this.The you should learn to read real books and not rely on wikidikipikisikipedia as your source for research.I am an avid student of Chicago History and Chicago Crime History. I studied books, you know what books are? Before the internet and Google, there were these things called books. I have read most of them on Chicago and Chicago criminal history.Now, go play with your google and do no evil.
fen, you're like a little girl who wants to be a man.i've challenged you on a number of occasions to provide one shred ot evidence that you're not a lying piece of shit...and you've never done so.either put up or shut the fuck up.c'om, big mouth...back your chicken-ass up.
Fen...buck, buck, buck, buck, buck...
Ever notice how Fen, when confronted, slithers away?
So one of McCain's current staffers was a lobbyist for a group that included FM/FM, and yet during that time, McCain introduced legislation those groups opposed. Has Obama EVER proposed a law that his biggest and most well-heeled donors would object to?
"Has Obama EVER proposed a law that his biggest and most well-heeled donors would object to?"SO, you think Obama is the candidate with "well-heeled" supporters...not John McCain??Now, THAT is funny.
Mikey,You did not answer the question. Has Obama ever proposed a law...?You cannot because he never has. He never proposed one law since he has been a Senator. Neither has Hillary Clinton. Like typical corrupt politicans, they just sat back and collected a salary. Oh, and spare us the argument that junior Senators cannot propose legislation. That is pure bull.Obama is all talk and no action. An empty suit.
Petey, it's too late.You're not smart enough to discuss or debate serious issues.Like I said before, I just don't want to have anything to do with you.
You know, people react to what they see and hear much more than what they read. If they hear it enough they believe it. Even if people know something isn't true, they are still more likely to believe it. There's zillions of examples. We all do it.The wonderful thing about the internet is that one can avoid advertising of all kinds while still getting information.So, I stopped watching political ads. Yeah, they matter, but why let them in my head? Contrary to belief, we are very vulnerable to what we see and hear. If we have a choice, shouldn't our politics be shaped by something more substantive than a 30 second ad slot? How substantive can a 5-10 sentence argument be in print?This isn't an appeal to look down on other people, just to recognize that these things have an impact far greater than they should, even if you're ready for them. Something to think about.
you should learn to read real books and not rely on wikidikipikisikipedia as your source for research.And the name of this Pritzker-slurring book would be? I read books; I even have a library card.Has Obama EVER proposed a law that his biggest and most well-heeled donors would object to?Obama's biggest donors are McCain's biggest donors, except for the college professors.Should Obama vote to defund higher education just to show his independence?
He never proposed one law since he has been a Senator.The most important law Obama proposed, that actually passed, in the last Congress was aid to Congo. McCain's accomplishment during the same period was a law giving federal real estate in prime freeway close locations to a wealthy Arizona developer, in exchange for checkerboard plots in the middle of nowhere.Once again, Obama believes in helping those who need it, while McCain believes in helping the rich get richer.
michael, these guys were pretty well-heeled.
Can I be against both of them?Sure, it's easy.
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