August 14, 2008

Bob Wright and Jonah Goldberg on the memes about Obama's rhetoric.

82 comments:

Trooper York said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Middle Class Guy said...

Why do Kaus and Wright look like refugees from a crack house?

Ann Althouse said...

Watch the whole diavlog.

They are both on vacation.

I think Bob needs a hearty meal though.

Donna B. said...

I haven't seen a phone like that in years.

Henry said...

I thought it was a Zelig thing Bob was doing.

Middle Class Guy said...

This is for you Troop:

A preacher looked out over his large congregation. He drew himself up in all of his righteous indignation. They he started to loudly preach.

“All ya’all are sinners. You are guilty of the worst sins of man kind and you disgust me to no end. I want all of you sinners who have been he’n and she’n to get up and walk out of my church.”

The majority of the congregation left.

The preacher went on. Louder and with more disgust in his voice.

“I want all of you who have been he’n and he’n to get up and walk out of my church.”

A few men got up and left swiftly.

Then the preacher saved his final disgust and indignation for the very end.

“I want all you who have been she’n and she’n to get up and walk out of my church.”

Some woman slunk out.

The preacher looked around to what he thought would be an empty church. He espied one solitary man sitting dead center in the middle of the church. The man was a mouse. A timid looking creature; short, gangly, with a pencil neck, protruding adam’s apple, Coke bottle glasses, and he was wearing a clean suit, though very old; a hand me down.

The preacher was aghast. He rose on his feet higher and he became choleric. He pointed at the poor looking soul. He used every bit of hatred and vitriol he could muster.

“Did you or did you not hear me demand that all those who were he’n and she’n get up and walk out of my church?”

The mousy man responded. Yassa.

“Did you or did you not hear me demand that all those who were he’n and he’n and she’n and she’n get up and walk out of my church?”

“Yassa”

“Then boy, what you doin sittin there all alone in the middle of my church.”

“Wayallsa, ya all dinin say nothing about me’n and me’n.”

Titus What's that on your Head A Wig? said...

I think the other guy has too many hearty meals.

Major doughy.

Trooper York said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
David said...

All right, help me.

Just what is a meme?

Trooper York said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
David said...

If I could spell it, I'd look it up myself.

AJ Lynch said...

Ground control to Major Tom. Commencing counting engines on.

I forget the rest of the words.

David said...

From Wikipedia:

"The term Internet meme is a neologism used to describe a catchphrase or concept that spreads quickly from person to person via the Internet.[1] The term is a reference to the concept of memes, although this concept refers to a much broader category of cultural information."

Will this be on the SAT?

A word that sounds nothing like its meaning is a lousy word.

I plan never to use it again.

I might scrap Wiki too.

AJ Lynch said...

Major Tom. Tom's Farmer Market.

That reminds me when we were kids and went to the shore for vacation, we had to drive thru New Jersey to get there and we used to make a game of spotting the Farmer Market named after someone you knew. There were hundreds of them back then.

Did you do that too Ann?

AJ Lynch said...

Is Obama in fact a great orator? Seems to be a meme but not sure if true. Or is he a flash in the pan like Joe Carbonneau or Bird Fidrych. They had great rookie years then fizzzled out. I think it was Carbonneau (Cleveland Indians?)

Great reader of teleprompter maybe.

Trooper York said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
AJ Lynch said...

There was a Mort's Esso Station but no farmers market. Shockingly, that Mort was kind of a miserable guy.

Middle Class Guy said...

Trooper York said...
If you use the phrase Uncle Tom, well Mort would say you were racist.

Unless you were directing it at a Republican. Then it's allright.

How about Brother Barry?

The Exalted said...

what a shocker, goldberg is critical of and derisively calls obama's unity message "messianic"

from a guy who supports the "uniter not a divider" president who claims "god told me to run for president"

/what a douche

The Drill SGT said...

Tom Dula (aka Tom Dooley)

Middle Class Guy said...

While travelling through Minnesota on a hunting trip I stopped at a farmers market being run by the two farmer's daughters...

Oh, never mind.

al said...

The US - Belgium Beach Volleyball match was far more interesting. Misty and Kerri were awesome. Much easier on the eyes on as well.

Simon said...

Bob says: "If you are a great orator, as most people concede that he is..." Nope. Still don't see it. How our standards have fallen if this is regarded as great oratory; Daniel Webster must be spinning in his grave. Wrap in in copper wire - maybe that's Obama's energy plan.

Palladian said...

"from a guy who supports the "uniter not a divider" president who claims "god told me to run for president"

Better God telling you to run for President than ...

AJ Lynch said...

Mort and Barry two unpopular names. Tom Joey Nick much better liked.

George Carlin did a bit about today's names. He bet that kids named Tony and Joey and Mike could kick the crap out of kids named Trevor and Robert and Alexander.

Chip Ahoy said...

What astounding perspicacity! This could all take some time to process. Hang on, I must make appropriate adjustments to my political paradigm. As the kids say on YouTube, always so polite, I want my 3.23 min. back. Although I'll admit it's a pleasure to hear a real-live best selling author.

Watch the whole diavlog.

If this was the best of, then apologies, but no. Enjoy your vacations, Guys.

AJ Lynch said...

Yeah Chip sometimes it would be nice to see a real fight break out. This was too polite and unemotional- must have woke them up.

I have notseen too many good bloggingheads. I assume you don't get invited back if you say what you really think.

Palladian said...

"Yeah Chip sometimes it would be nice to see a real fight break out."

Watch the one with Althouse and Jonah Goldberg, he turns the most lovely shade of pink, like very rare corned beef.

Chip Ahoy said...

As an act of kindness to a stranger, and to perpetuate the practice of my father to over explain things:

David, you spelled meme correctly. trooper york was being his customary hilarious self by misdirecting to the word mime. Ha ha ha X 8

Meme is a word that gained popular usage over the internet. It's a social gene, an idea that becomes propagated. There are countless internet memes. Stick 'em up kitty is a good example. You'll find it in 1,000 forms. Having a bad day is another one. Its essential elements are shark, helicopter, rope ladder and bridge. Another visual meme relevant to the discussion here is goatse, rude to an extreme, it originated as an office joke whereby office workers would provide an innocent appearing link that opened a picture so shocking it's impossible to erase from one's memory. They'd send the link in an interoffice email then wait for the shrieks of horror from the protection of their office cube. The meme is so widespread now that any and all chevrons, like an Air Force sergeant's patch, is automatically reminds one of a goatse. Thus the Obama "O" is transformed into the rudest of all possible internet memes by the addition of two hands. Trope is another word for it.

Seven Machos said...

I presume that they are both pronouncing the word "meme" correctly: "meem." I find that pronunciation disgusting, almost repulsive. "Mem" as in "member" sounds so much better and natural and just.

Simon said...

Palladian said...
"Watch the one with Althouse and Jonah Goldberg, he turns the most lovely shade of pink, like very rare corned beef."

That is my very favorite BHTV ever. She kills in that one.

Seven Machos said...

And another thing: Exalted, you are the douche here. Those two people were having a nice, reasonable conversation. Only a douche -- and a stupid, pointless douche at that -- would avoid all merits.

You really don't have the actual ability to argue on substance, do you?

vbspurs said...

"He's got a secret agenda", quoted Bob Wright.

Well, actually, no.

The thing with Obama, as with all ideologues, is if you listen to him closely, all his plans, every last one of them, are revealed in no uncertain terms.

Just look at his plans to "end the war responsibly" (from his website).

Number 4 is the one which should send chills down your spines.

"Take immediate steps to confront the humanitarian disaster in Iraq, and hold accountable any perpetrators of war crimes."

This means that all you serving men and women had better watch out.

Now, the presentation of his ideas may vary, which is what is happening to Obama just now.

He's trailing because McCain has successfully pushed him into the arrogant-foreign-rockstar corner, perhaps forever.

He's playing on McCain's turf and not the other way around.

Obama had one bright shining moment to draw the spotlight back on him again -- at the Convention. But what does he do?

He allows the Clintons to bookend two crucial nights of political glory.

He's absolutely not ready for prime time.

Cheers,
Victoria

vbspurs said...

Psst, any of you watching Nastia Liukin going for gold? She just KILLED in her last routine.

Trooper York said...
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vbspurs said...

Why are the floor exercise songs always less fun than the figure skating ones? Puttin' on the Ritz? Jeez, why not Manilow's Copacabana whlst we're at it.

vbspurs said...

Liukin just finished her routine. I thought the Chinese girl did better -- it was more fluid. I could feel Liukin "thinking" during her whole floor exercise. It wasn't artistic.

Wow, well, everyone's a critic. The judges just gave her a massive score. Good deal, USA with the Gold!!

vbspurs said...

Retton and Comaneci in the stands. Liukin wins the gold, and little Shawn Johnson from Idaho, the silver. IN BEIJING.

Wow. Congrats! Well, Althouse is quiet so good night guys.

vbspurs said...

Before I go, heads up, Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan expected to resign within a few days.

What with Olmert on his way out, and the Bush Administration's days numbered, and Putin's Russia sabre-rattling again, the geopolitical situation is as uncertain as ever.

Unfortunately, this news is much more important than the Olympics.

Chip Ahoy said...

It's all Bush's fault. It's a complex and sinister conspiracy to get McSamehitlerhalmurderton elected. They should all be strung up and hung from the highest oil derrick, then turned into chum and spread around the farthest most oil platform and buried alive!!!!!

Pardon me, I was indulging my inner partisan.

Here's my other inner partisan: the pinko-commie music played for the girls olympic gymnastic competition is extremely grating on my poor sensitive ears. Must. hit. mute.

UWS guy said...

bob and micky are fun to watch. I think the bloggingheads that don't work are the ones where the two interlocutors don't know each other and are overly gracious.


It's why C. Hichtens makes for the best youtube debates, he's willing to lay into total strangers with vim.

Seven Machos said...

Notes for leftist loons:

1. Robert Wright writes for The New Republic (and the New Yorker and various other left-leaning publications).

2. Generally, when you have a debate, you want two people on different sides. Thus, Wright and Goldberg, who writes for National Review.

3. If you are to the left of The New Republic, you cannot possibly win a national election in this country.

Thank you.

Ruth Anne Adams said...

Victoria:
I disagree. The Chinese girl had no connectors and her amplitude was sincerely lacking. She had an odd side step on one turn, too [small], but Liukin, even in a pensive mode, hit everything with fluidity and extension. Go back and watch the girls' routine again. There shouldn't be one full second of stillness and she has several while standing in the corner, getting her breath for the next tumbling pass.

It wouldn't have been so close if the !^@#&*#&( Russian judge hadn't been pulling for the Commies. Thank God Nellie Kim was keeping them honest over on beam.

Zachary Paul Sire said...

Goldberg...ugg, what a total human garbage dump.

Victoria, you're a wee bit paranoid if you think Obama is going to prosecute all our troops for war crimes. Get real. However, I agree about Obama being an idiot for letting the Clintons take over the convention. And Mark Warner giving the keynote? Wake me when it's over.

Seven Machos said...

I do agree that Victoria is paranoid but only because Americans would turn against the president absolutely massively if he tried to prosecute soldiers or officers. As for the Bush administration, that wouldn't work, either, and surely he's wise enough not to attempt to set that kind of destructive precedent.

Still, if it's really at the website, it's great campaign fodder and one more not-ready-for-primetime thing that Obama has done.

blake said...

AJ --

I remember that Carlin routine. He mentions two of my names, which I suppose means I could kick the crap out of myself.

blake said...

Hey--

East Coasters!!

SPOILER WARNINGS PLEASE!!

Paco Wové said...

Sorry, vbspurs, but Shawn Johnson is from I-O-WA (the flat, ethanol-plant-filled place between the Mississippi and Missouri), not I-DA-HO (the mountainous abode of survivalist whackos).

Ann Althouse said...

Well, I got tired and went to bed, but I was TiVoing the Olympics to enjoy them today. Spoiler warnings next time, folks.

Simon said...

Victoria said "[j]ust look at [Obama's] plans to 'end the war responsibly' ... [which includes taking] immediate steps to confront the humanitarian disaster in Iraq, and hold accountable any perpetrators of war crimes."

Then Zachary Paul Sire said "Victoria, you're a wee bit paranoid if you think Obama is going to prosecute all our troops for war crimes," and Seven Machos said "Americans would turn against the president absolutely massively if he tried to prosecute soldiers or officers."

Heh. You guys think Obama's talking about prosecuting the troops?

MadisonMan said...

I got tired and went to bed, too, and don't care about what I missed. There's more of the same today. That's the great thing about the Olympics. I will say, though, that the Women's Beach Volleyball (May/Treanor vs Belgium?) was just a great thing to watch. Same with the womens' 200-m breaststroke.

gophermomeh said...
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gophermomeh said...

About the whole beach volleyball thing - why do are the guys wearing shirts? Takes a lot of the fun out of it...

Ann Althouse said...

Here's the rule for revealing the results of the Olympics: You can do it in a post that is set aside for discussing the Olympics, but don't do it for at least 12 hours inside a post on some other topic.

Ann Althouse said...

Let's say 24 hours. I often watch the recorded results from the previous night at the beginning of a night (when they devote a lot of time to some team sport I don't care about). This is especially important with respect to gymnastics, which is shown late at night here.

knox said...

Yeah, I think #4 is intended as a not-so-subtle threat to prosecute Bush. Just a threat -- I think it's unlikely he'd do it, he's just giving his BDS fans something to hope for. After all, he started out as and advocate for immediate troop withdrawal from Iraq, and he's already backed off from that.

But if they want to start prosecuting presidents, they can start with Clinton and his random bombing of Sudanese pharmacists.

knox said...

Well this thread is proof that people do NOT only comment on the looks of BH women...

ricpic said...

Goldberg says it flat out: Obama's a con man. But why? Why the con? Because he's a marxist, and that always has to be hidden, that's why!

Richard Dolan said...

This little clip is reminicent of the WSJ editorials in early 1993 about the in-coming Clinton team -- who is this O guy? You get "memes" about whether O's rhetoric suggests an empty suit, or instead someone trying to pull off a con job (basically the opposite of an empty suit), or perhaps a "Saul Alinsky groupie" trying to pass as a "normal Democrat," etc.

It's quite an accomplishment, I suppose, for a guy whose favorite (some say only) topic is himself and whose entire campaign is built on the power of autobiography (some prefer hagiography), to remain such a mystery man after all the non-stop exposure he's received. (No one has had a similar problem figuring out the Clintons, or McCain, for example.) I don't think either Wright or Goldberg gets to the unique combination of intelligence, charm and self-absorbed shallowness that O presents. Despite all of the blather about "doing it for my children," he strikes me as someone who never stopped to figure out what he wanted to do if he was elected -- putting aside the usual reasons of ego and self-flattery, just why he wants to be president. Instead, his campaign suggests that the "what he wants to do" question is, at best, secondary, almost a distraction. I don't think O could answer that question, at least in any way that others might find convincing, if he even bothered to ask it of himself.

garage mahal said...

Because he's a marxist, and that always has to be hidden, that's why!

The Marxist who has double the Wall Street contributions from the likes of Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan than McCain. Great observation.

al said...

About the whole beach volleyball thing - why do are the guys wearing shirts?

Guys play beach volleyball? I somehow missed that.

P. Rich said...

"You can't be a dangerous mystery man flip flopper."

Why not, if an integral part of your political strategy is to avoid taking a hard, clearly identifiable position on any controversial issue?

Captain Zero, masked avenger, wins gold medal in Flip Flopping. Fans cheer.

MadisonMan said...

Guys play beach volleyball? I somehow missed that.

If you've been watching the ladies, you've been listening to Karch Kiraly. I'd say he's more famous in beach volleyball than anyone else.

Hoosier Daddy said...

The Marxist who has double the Wall Street contributions from the likes of Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan than McCain. Great observation.

Kinda makes you wonder when he starts talking about taxing windfall profits and putting the working class American in front of corporate interests.

Or maybe that's just the same old class warfare rhetoric that plays to the hoi polloi while he presses flesh with his rich contributors.

Hope and change my muscular buttocks.

Trooper York said...
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Pastafarian said...

From the video: "He can't be a 'dangerous mystery man flip-flopper'".

I agree -- Obama isn't a flip-flopper, he's a liar. When he reverses his previous position to co-opt that of McCain and defuse an issue, he's not REALLY reversing his position. If he were, we'd see the left desert him in droves. They know what he's doing; Clinton called it "triangulation".

This is a very dangerous election. We could end up with a much more leftist president than anyone realizes, more leftist than anyone but the extreme fringe would actually want.

garage mahal said...

Kinda makes you wonder when he starts talking about taxing windfall profits and putting the working class American in front of corporate interests.

That's why calling him Marxist is so absurd.

Trooper York said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
vbspurs said...

Guys, you misunderstand my point. Though I am concerned about the troops, what I am even more concerned with is the bald laying out of this statement from a Presidential candidate:

"Take immediate steps to confront the humanitarian disaster in Iraq, and hold accountable any perpetrators of war crimes."

Iraq for Barack Obama is an humanitarian disaster, not a humanitarian triumph made so by American lives and money. He emphasises that in his opinion, war crimes were committed, and he wishes to punish the perpetrators -- high and low.

But I don't think he means Iraqis. He means his fellow Americans.

It's a chilling statement.

Cheers,
Victoria

vbspurs said...

Oops, got it. Talking about the Olympics on Althouse will be very difficult then, Ann. That Olympics thread idea was a good one.

But promise, no spoilers.

al said...

If you've been watching the ladies, you've been listening to Karch Kiraly. I'd say he's more famous in beach volleyball than anyone else.

Forgot the smiley. :-) I know who Karch is. I also have a neighbor whose son is out in CA playing in the beach volleyball circuit.

As for me - I just prefer watching the ladies.

Hoosier Daddy said...

That's why calling him Marxist is so absurd.

Perhaps but it certainly does beg the question of what kind of ideology says we're going tax these big profits so we can give working families a $1000 tax rebate.

Certainly smacks of redistribution of wealth to me. Then again I wasn't buying his hope and change bullshit either. For someone whose ads here in Indiana are making a point of saying that he's going to put the little guy in front of corporate interests, I find it interesting he's accepting millions from those same corporations. Corporations don't donate to campaign funds with the exepectation their going to be second fiddle to the great unwashed not to mention pay more in taxes. Bambi is either lying is ass off to his following or its simply going to be business as usual.

I repeat. Hope and change my ass.

Ann Althouse said...

"Talking about the Olympics on Althouse will be very difficult then..."

Just avoid news reports... and frame comments creatively. You can do it.

Ann Althouse said...

By Merv, you mean this Merv?

Simon said...

Hoosier Daddy said...
"[I]t certainly does beg the question of what kind of ideology says we're going tax these big profits so we can give working families a $1000 tax rebate. Certainly smacks of redistribution of wealth to me."

That can as easily be populism as marxism: "your problems aren't your own responsibility, those other, richer people are to blame, so we're going to hurt them and help the common man." Edwards and Paul both played that stinking harp from hell this cycle.

garage mahal said...

Hoosier
That's what I can never get about you guys. Bush bent over the country with the largest transfer of wealth in history and leaves a twenty on the dresser and you guys cheer. Obama is talking about structuring rates back to the Clinton years and you call *that* redistribution of wealth.

Middle Class Guy said...

garage mahal said...
Obama is talking about structuring rates back to the Clinton years and you call *that* redistribution of wealth.


You mean the same president Clinton who lied about raising taxes on the rich, while he raised taxes on the middle and working class? That Bill Clinton?

There should be no, zero, zip, nada, tax increases ON ANYBODY. They should lower taxes even more and reduce spending and eliminate programs that do nothing but finance failure. They could also eliminate some Departments.

The Exalted said...

Seven Machos said...

that you think there was anything said approaching substance is amusing

blake said...

That's what I can never get about you guys. Bush bent over the country with the largest transfer of wealth in history and leaves a twenty on the dresser and you guys cheer. Obama is talking about structuring rates back to the Clinton years and you call *that* redistribution of wealth.

Not taking people's money is not a "transfer of wealth".

MadisonMan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
knox said...

Not taking people's money is not a "transfer of wealth".


Funny how that has to be explained.

Garage your politics basically grow from resenting everyone who makes more $$ than you and wanting it to be taken away.

veni vidi vici said...

Vic,
"Puttin on the Ritz" by Taco really is pretty lame, although it was clever in '83, and the use of fat, fizzy analog synths in the orchestration makes for some great ear candy. The only true redeeming aspect of that recording is the out-tro ("Gotta dance..."), which turns into a nice greasy little dancefloor shaker.

As for "Copacabana", I inherited that "Even Now" album of Manilow's from my sister, and a few months ago spun the Copa for the first time. I'll say that is one of the best "story songs" ever - right up there with Hotel California, lyrically -- yes, I'm serious. Also, the groove rips and the players on the recording are flat-out off the hook killing it.

A few months ago there was a "Classic tracks" column on "Copacabana" in Mix magazine, where they discussed the writing and recording of that song with the producers, arrangers and engineer. Check it out: they'd done the album track on a lark because on one thought it was in the Manilow "oeuvre" and it might not have been well-accepted. Showed it to Clive and he was excited about it, and told them they needed a club mix. The guys went back to the studio, spliced up an extended edit, and to boost the kick drum they recorded a guy tapping on a leather stool or something on top of the 4 on the floor beat, mixed it in with loads of thump on the low-end, and pressed an acetate, which they brought out to Studio 54 that night when they finished.

They go up to the dj booth and at midnight, the dj spun "copacabana" for the first time in public -- no one had ever heard this song before (just think about a time without that ubiquitous record!)... The dance floor emptied, people were listening... the producers are up in the dj booth starting to sweat bullets like, "Oh shit, this is a bomb." And then, first one, then another couple took to the floor and started dancing, and then the floodgates broke and the dancefloor lit up with people, and they had a notion that "Copacabana" would be a hit after all.

The rest, as they say, is history. Great story. Great song. Great record. 'Nuff said.


(and no, I'm no Manilow fan; can't stand the guy's music, actually)