July 29, 2008

Sebelius, Kaine, Bayh, Biden — take your pick of the apparent finalists.

Seems like Biden is really the best...

ADDED: Adam Nagourney on why it's probably not going to be Clinton.

45 comments:

XWL said...

From the linked post, "Choosing Biden or Bayh would put in the White House strong and knowledgeable legislators who would be expected to do heavy lifting with allies and adversaries".

Wouldn't it be a smart move politically to promise to rollback the office of the Vice President back to its crappy status it enjoyed up throw Quayle, instead of the overreaching, and decidedly extra-constitutional (as in outside of, not more of) role its transformed into under th past two VPs (anybody who wants to make this about Cheney should remember that this ball really got rolling under the Clinton/Gore 'co-presidency', or was that the Clinton/Clinton/Gore co-co-presidency?)

XWL said...

please pretend that 'throw' above reads 'through'.

At least I managed not to type, 'threw'.

Although, "Throwing Quails", would probably be a pretty awesome band name.

MadisonMan said...

Why would a Senator running against a Senator choose a Senator as a running mate? If McCain can then pick Senator Graham he can make the race the creepiest most incestuously Legislative Presidential run ever.

mountainshout said...

Out of that group, Biden is by far the best choice. He would be both valuable in office, but perhaps more so on the campaign trail. The only worry would be the upstaging of Obama, like the article said. I'm no fan of Joe, but on substance, I think he would run circles around Barry. That's not exactly the image the DNC would want to portray.

Roger J. said...

I do think he has a pretty strong grasp of foreign policy issues, but that said, can Biden keep his mouth shut? This is a guy that uses up all of his alloted time in committee in the preface to the first question he never gets to ask.

Original Mike said...

Wasn't it Biden who praised Obama for being "clean"?

SteveR said...

Biden takes away the "change you can believe in" not that it mattered to anyone anymore. He will deliver Delaware and with a democrat making judical nominations there is no need for his hard hitting and insightful questioning on the Judiciary Committee.

G Joubert said...

Biden has shown a decided knack for screwing the pooch in very major league ways. Obama wants that talent on his ticket why? That's not even getting to the fact that Biden's own presidential campaigns barely even registered on anybody's radar anywhere.

XWL said...

Wasn't it Biden who praised Obama for being "clean"?

And "articulate".

So it was a two-fer of what some perceive as highly charged 'coded' language.

I doubt either Senator will choose another Senator as their running mate, so I expect Sebelius or Kaine are the real frontrunners for Obama, and Palin or Jindal are atop McCain's list.

Simon said...

Joe Biden is the "best"? That's quite a slam on the rest of the group.

Original Mike said...

XWL: I believe it was Pres. Bush who called Obama articulate, for which he was accused of prejudice.

Original Mike said...

XWL: My bad. Biden was first. Bush did get crap for repeating it.

XWL said...

Context is everything, not only did Biden mention both 'clean' and 'articulate', but he also prefaced the statement with, 'first African-American who was', which is what made it an insenstive remark. Here's Think Progress' take, which I think they assume makes Bush seem like as big of an idiot as Biden, where I think it shows that within the context of the statement, Bush's statement can easily be viewed as completely harmless.

Just saying that a guy who edited the Harvard Law Review back in college is 'articulate', shouldn't come as a shock to anybody.

Suggesting that his articulateness is unique to him, and heretofore not shared by other politicians with similar ethnic characteristics, that's easier to make a case for being offensive.

So similar statements, completely different contexts, and if we knew then how inarticulate Sen. Obama can be when the prompter isn't rolling, maybe would never have gotten said in the first place.

(ummmmm, ahhhh, ummmmm, ahhh, I mean 'thoughtful', not 'inarticulate')

Also, when I begin My Campaign for 2016 some time around early 2015 (I beat the rush, and informally announced my intentions back in early '07), I promise not to get offended when somebody calls me 'articulate', even though being as 'bi-racial' as Sen. Obama, I have as much right to be offended as he does.

Paul said...

Assuming that the Atlantic bloggers have the correct scoop, I'd bet cash money that it'll be either Sebelius or Kaine, not one of the Senators (Bayh, Biden).

Obama's biggest flaw is that he is applying for the world's biggest executive position -- yet has never managed anything bigger than his checkbook. Look for him to fill the number two spot with someone who has experience in that area.

Jeremy said...

XWL-
I thought Jindal was pretty clear that he didn't want the VP slot.

bill said...

please pretend that 'throw' above reads 'through'.

If it helps, I read it as "up chucked Quayle." That worked for me.

AJ Lynch said...

This VP thing is Obama's 1st big decision. Wanna bet he screws it up?

MadisonMan said...

Look for him to fill the number two spot with someone who has experience in that area.

What, we're getting a former VP? Cheney, Gore, Quayle or Bush 1 or Mondale. Who else is a possibility?

XWL said...

Jeremy above, "XWL-
I thought Jindal was pretty clear that he didn't want the VP slot.
"

It's my subtle way of informing Sen. McCain, that he better pick Gov. Sarah Palin,


. . ., or ELSE!



(or else, I'll be mildly disappointed, hold my nose, vote for him anyway, and he'll lose CA by only 2,999,999 votes instead of 3,000,001)

AllenS said...

If Obama's VP pick doesn't measure up, he can always say: "This isn't the ________ that I knew."

Wurly said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Palladian said...

"Who else is a possibility?"

You know, I bet that Spiro Agnew is as good now as he's ever been.

Mark Daniels said...

Biden was also once governor of Indiana. So he is also, in Ambinder's phrase, "a governing choice."

Sibelius will also give him some help in Ohio, where she's from and where her dad was once governor.

Biden-Obama would have been my ideal ticket for the Democrats, just from the standpoint of governance, not as a preference.

For Obama, the choice must be solid, rather than flashy or bold. This is why I think that Biden is his best choice, the one most shores up his biggest perceived deficiency, lack of experience.

But Biden does not help him with the executive experience problem.

Mark Daniels

ricpic said...

If the affirmative action candidate had half a brain he would have long since decided on Sam Nunn in order to give his candidacy at least the illusion of gravitas. But of course the one thing Obamoid knows is himself. And what he knows is that in propinquity to former Senator Nunn his pipsqueakedness would become glaringly screamingly undeniably obvious. So he'll go with a fellow nonentity.

Simon said...

Mark Daniels said...
"Biden was also once governor of Indiana. So he is also, in Ambinder's phrase, "a governing choice."

You're thinking of Bayh, so I have to ask:

"Biden-Obama would have been my ideal ticket for the Democrats, just from the standpoint of governance, not as a preference."

You mean Bayh-Obama, right?

[On the GOP side, I'm in the Palin camp]

Kansas City said...

Bayh seems the best choice. Very boring guy, but he has good qualifications and this election is going to be a referendum on Obama, regardless of the VP pick. So he should just pick a qualified boring guy and move on.

Biden is the second choice, but a bit of a big mouth risk. I have never understood why insiders like him so much. He comes across as a blabbermouth phony to me, albeit a bit endearing.

Kaine and Sebelius would be disasters, because no objective person would consider either one qualified to be president. It reinforces the weakness of Obama on qualifications. And, of course, in the identity politics perspective of the democrats, Sebelius would raise the question of why not Hillary, which simply cannot be answered adequately for Hillary supporters.

Beldar said...

Ah, Sen. "Slow Joe" Biden (D-DE), a/k/a Sen. Credit-Card. A self-admitted repeat plagiarist (from law school and then again as a presidential candidate) who graduated 76th out of 85 in his law school class. (Now that's a class rank to compete with McCain's at the Naval Academy, but most Americans are more likely to identify with McCain's smart-assedness than Biden's cheating, I think.)

Yes, Biden is quite a phrase-maker in his own right, as with his description of the top of the Democratic ticket: "I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man."

Oh, yes, please. Let's hope it's Slow Joe.

Mark Daniels said...

Simon:
This is what happens when I don't proofread.

Yes, I meant to say that Bayh was once governor.

No, I meant to say that at the outset of the campaign, I'd thought that the strongest Dem ticket this year would have been Biden-Obama.


Thanks for asking.

Mark

Steven said...

So, what's Obama going to offer Clinton to keep her quiet?

I mean, by the rules, the Presidential nominee doesn't pick the VP, the convention does. She wouldn't even have to take the lead; a quiet word to some of her supporters to nominate her, and all she'd have to do is decline to remove her name from the running. The resulting floor fight might not nominate her, but it would certainly cut the legs out from under any convention bounce, since it would give her supporters a whole new chance to get offended by Obama.

Ry said...

Delegate-grabbing aside: Would debates between the two elective (not the "presumptive") nominees, that is - the winners of the two primaries, be the appropriate place to decide who the American people would make their VPs for both parties? Btw, this glowingly-hot ...summer, I've been encouraged to vote according to inner conscience -- bearing in mind that neither the economy nor the world of foreign influence will care the slightest who we had the audacity to put into office ... when once the election festivities are over.

Simon said...

Beldar said...
"[Biden] graduated 76th out of 85 in his law school class."

And judging by his public statements, hasn't learned a thing about law since then. He makes Charles Grassley look like John Roberts.

Mark Daniels said...
"I'd thought that the strongest Dem ticket this year would have been Biden-Obama."

What would he bring to the ticket? I mean, I know it plays to the shallow, vain, vacuous, egotistic brain-dead prick vote, but doesn't Barack already have that sewn up by himself? I mean, granted, I'll never forgive him for his part in the Bork fiasco, but you only have to look at his performance at the Roberts and Alito hearings to know that this is a guy who really rides the short bus of politics.

MadisonMan said...

So, what's Obama going to offer Clinton to keep her quiet?

An ambassadorship -- I'm thinking Latvia -- to Bill.

John Stodder said...

I think it's going to be Biden. He's fiery.

Sebelius will be seen as a kind of back-handed insult to Hillary. Want a woman VP candidate, pick the best woman. That's not Gov. Sebelius.

Bayh and Kaine are just too dull, and frankly the Obama of today is dull, too. Dull and dull isn't a good ticket.

Biden's got all the right stuff. He can translate Obamaese to the bitter and clingy voter.

Kansas City said...

Obama would have been a lock and a great choice for VP if he had not succeeded in gaming the democratic primary system to win the nomination.

I also had thought that Hillary would be able to roll him into picking her for VP, but there has not been a hint of that in the press. I suppose an effective roll would be covert anyway, so it might still happen. Hillary could just bat her eyes and say she in private to Obama that she is afraid her more enthusiatic delegates might steamroll the convention in response to her Tuesday night speech and she would not be able to stop them. She probably would not need to say anything more, and Obama would be in a box. He might not be able to reject her and disclose what she said in an effective manner, he might be afraid that the threat would actually materialize if he rejected her, and perhaps his only way out would be to pick her. If I was Hillary, I would do it just for the fun of it to see the Great Obama squirm.

John Stodder said...

An ambassadorship -- I'm thinking Latvia -- to Bill.

There are better-looking babes in Russia. Besides, that would mean Bill can keep an eye on some of his investments.

Randy said...

My guesses for Obama: Bayh or Biden, with the advantage to Bayh because presidential candidates generally cannot stand to be upstaged.

As for McCain: Pawlenty or Romney. If it's one of his "off-days" when decides, then Fiorina or Huckabee.

AllenS said...

Stop it. Hillary will kick Obama in the nuts at the convention, and win the nomination.

Kansas City said...

If anyone wants to read a great speech by McCain (I don't know how he delivered it), check this out:

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MzhhMzI5MmJlZWE4ODczNjI5NDk5YzIxMDQ2YjZlZDY=

It seems like exactly the message that would get him elected president.

Ruth Anne Adams said...

Simon says
[On the GOP side, I'm in the Palin camp]

Me, too! Let's go camping with Sarah. You know she's great in the outdoors. Like ANWR...

But I would be *ho-hum* okay with Mitt. Mac 'n Cheese.

veni vidi vici said...

"So, what's Obama going to offer Clinton to keep her quiet?"

How's this: "Come in here, dear girl, have a cigar, you're gonna go far..."


"or was that the Clinton/Clinton/Gore co-co-presidency"

Some would refer to it as the "ca-ca presidency".


Biden is Cheney to Obama's Bush; Bayh, not so much. If that's the limit to Obama's imagination or the length of the chain his backers have granted him, well, woe is us.

Then again, it's not like McCain's team has any better ideas for their guy.

I still think Sibelius is a good choice for Obama, since she's female and, unlike Hillary, does have executive governing experience. Plus, her adequate fawning expressions of concern in front of television cameras during the tornado season have provided a great library of "woman of action and compassion" material the likes of which is the stuff campaigns are made of.

If Obama loses, she will be one of the top contenders in 2012 regardless of whether she's on the ticket this time, mark my words.

And the silly boardgame her kid made, which was the subject of a lot of ballyhoo (and would be the subject of much garment-rending by the more asinine elements of the right were she on a ticket) won't matter. The people who would protest and take it seriously would be too easy to marginalize, and they'd taint any subsequent serious criticism of the Guv by their action. Which would, of course, make her an even more attractive choice!

Simon said...

Ruth Anne - I'll shoot it and cook it, but she'll have to get it from the aftermath of the former to being ready for the latter. :p

I was skeptical of her for a while, in the sense of "is it her time?" but there's really a shortage of talent right now, and we kinda need to win now.

veni vidi vici - Perhaps Dogs would be more apt for the Clintons, from the perspective of the nutsroots:

"And when you loose control, you'll reap the harvest you have sown.
And as the fear grows, the bad blood slows and turns to stone.
And it's too late to lose the weight you used to need to throw around.
So have a good drown, as you go down, all alone,
Dragged down by the stone.
"

veni vidi vici said...

that third line rhyme about losing the weight you used to need is excellent, and "dragged down by the stone" with the subsequent tape-echo that morphs into a synthesizer sound always assumed a greater significance when listened to while stoned, where you'd actually be dragged down by your own buzz at that point in the tune.

Well, that's how it was for me, anyway.

But it was all about the cigar reference in my earlier post, if that wasn't obvious re. Hillary Clinton. She suffered through the Monica thing, she deserves a go at the wand herself, and whose surer, "smoover" hand than Barack's?

William said...

Obama will nominate a candidate with a great deal more experience than himself. Is there anyone in public life besides Hannah Montana who has less experience than he? McCain will nominate someone younger than himself. This precludes him nominating a fellow senator since most are much older than he.

AlphaLiberal said...

John McCain, liar:

"For four days, Sen. John McCain and his allies have accused Sen. Barack Obama of snubbing wounded soldiers by canceling a visit to a military hospital because he could not take reporters with him, despite no evidence that the charge is true...

A reconstruction of the circumstances surrounding Obama's decision not to visit Landstuhl, based on firsthand reporting from the trip, shows that his campaign never contemplated taking the media with him."
From today's Washington Post.

And, and this is rich....
"Asked repeatedly for the "reports," Bounds provided three examples, none of which alleged that Obama had wanted to take members of the media to the hospital."

Yup. The McCain campaign just manufactured that charge from thin air.

MadisonMan said...

Of course they manufactured the outrage. If Obama had visited, they would have complained that he was using ailing soldiers for a political photo op.

It's easy to see why Phil Gramm called McCain a whiner.