February 29, 2008

"Well, there's something known as American conservatism, though it does not even call itself that."

"It's been calling itself  'voting Republican' or 'not liking the New Deal.' But it is a very American approach to life, and it has to do with knowing that the government is not your master, that America is good, that freedom is good and must be defended, and communism is very, very bad."

Peggy Noonan, paraphrasing William F. Buckley, Jr.

129 comments:

paul a'barge said...

Sounds about right to me?

TROBlog said...

To me to . . . with no question mark.

The Drill SGT said...

core values. lots of folks would add to that, but as you add to it, you dilute it and lose support.

keep it simple.

Rich B said...

Seems pretty self-evident to me.

downtownlad said...

Yes. And that the government must decide that your penis must be placed into a vagina and not man's behind, or the government will throw you in jail.

And that the Federal government will force you to suffer in pain rather than using medical marijuana, thus overturning the state laws that made medical marijuana illegal.

Can we please dispose of the lies that Republicans believe in freedom. They believe in nothing of the sort.

P. Rich said...

Yes. Communism came along late in the game, of course. Originally it was monarchies we wanted no part of. That said, conservative principles today don't vary much from those on which the country was founded - which I suppose defines conservatism.

The further left one moves on the political spectrum, the less this is true. At some point in the wrong direction principles have been discarded and replaced with the littany of "progressive" nonsense - nanny-state socialism, political correctness, pacifism, etc. etc. etc. - which today pretty much define the Democratic Party.

WF Buckley Jr will be missed.

downtownlad said...

Never forget that George Bush had 3 gay people imprisoned for 3 months during his presidency solely for having consensual sex.

downtownlad said...

The Bush Presidency has prosecuted people for producing porn.

Because the government knows best.

Freedom my ass.

downtownlad said...

The Republican party has made it illegal for two gay people to enter into ANY contract with each other in the state of Virginia.

Paul said...

Yes I've noticed how scarce porn has become since Bu$hitler set up the smut gulags.

dtl pretty much singlehandedly proves liberalism is a mental disorder.

JDAXC said...

HA HA!!
We have gone from WFB and Peggy Noonan intelligently talking about Conservatism...........to homosexual sex.
Way to go Libs. You can't make this $hit up!

downtownlad said...

Paul - You're an anti-gay bigot, so do I really care what you think.

No.

Peggy Noonan and her paper have said that all gay people can be placed on a 1-10 scale. 1 being regular gay guy. 10 being a child-molester murderer.

downtownlad said...

William F. Buckley has called for all gay people (and only gays) with HIV to be tattooed against their will.

Roger said...

Preemptive strike: jdax--your a bigot too.

downtownlad said...

Peggy Noonan has stated quite vociferously that gay people should never mention their sexual orientation publicly. She thinks they should be shamed back into the closet.

downtownlad said...

Why do Roger, Jdaxc, and Paul want to imprison gay people for having sex in the privacy of their own homes?

Oh that's right. Because they're bigots.

downtownlad said...

It is admirable though, how William F. Buckley wanted to keep niggers in their place.

Not.

downtownlad said...

"You're either with us or you're against us" - George W. Bush.

Slavery = Freedom.

Roger said...

DTL: Whereever have I advocated any sanctions on any gay american for being gay. I am also an advocate of gay marriage. you are an insufferable ass. I do confess to being bigoted when it comes to you because you are simply an asshole, and I dislike assholes intensely. Go fuck yourself.

downtownlad said...

Republicans believe in freedom for straight males. If you're a nigger, cunt, or faggot - tough luck.

downtownlad said...

Roger - Nice of you to resort to homophobia.

You are a bigot and it is obvious. You favor the repeal of Lawrence V. Texas.

That means you want to imprison gay people.

Try again.

Paul said...

"Why do Roger, Jdaxc, and Paul want to imprison gay people for having sex in the privacy of their own homes?

Oh that's right. Because they're bigots."


Hahahahahah. Keep digging you clueless ass. This keeps getting better and better.

But don't you know we want to kill all teh gays because we're all just closet fairies ourselves? Oh that was your next response? Of course!

jeff said...

DTL-reading minds since.....how old are you again? Really, at what period in this country in the last 230 years or so, has it been easier to live out of the closet? What's wrong with freedom, and the government is not your master and America is good?

downtownlad said...

Notice how Roger is distressed by a gay person who dares to think for himself and refuses to be a victim.

He has to resort to insults, just because I have an opinion.

Is Roger a self-loathing closeted gay? Most likely.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Republicans believe in freedom for straight males. If you're a nigger, cunt, or faggot - tough luck.

Hey you forgot he-shes, dykes, wops, greasers and spics. Lets not leave anyone out.

Do you feel empowered now? Anyone else find it interesting that the only ones who toss around such colorful language are so-called progressives?

And you wonder why you get no respect.

Roger said...

DTL: please cite for me where I have taken any position with respect to lawrence v Texas.

TROBlog said...

If you're a nigger, cunt, or faggot - tough luck.

Those words flow so easily from your mouth. How sad for you.

And what's worse no one on the left will say shame on you.

Palladian said...

Wow, the bitter queen must be off his meds. I thought you moved to Canada or something, Mary?

I never thought I'd pine for the desperate onanistic thread-jacking attempts of titus, but it's certainly better than the massively less entertaining droppings of our resident stone-hearted, stone-headed drama queen.

downtownlad said...

Jeff - You don't believe in freedom. That's why you and the Rethuglican party are actively trying to imprison gay people.

In fact, Bush HAS imprisoned gay people.

Why can't gay people have the freedom to fight for this country? Because Americans are bigots.

Why can't gay people have the freedom to marry who they want? Because Americans are bigots.

Why can't gay people be free to enter into contracts with each other? Because Americans are bigots.

Why can't gay people visit their partners in the hospital? Because Americans are bigots.

Why can't gay people adopt? Because Americans are bigots.

Like I said. Freedom = Slavery. Republicans have absolutely no clue what freedom means. They like to talk about it, but then all they do is focus all of their energies on making sure a small minority of Americans never enjoy it.

And then you call them on it, and all they can do, like the small-minded children they are, is throw insults.

So typical.

Paul said...

"Notice how Roger is distressed by a gay person who dares to think for himself and refuses to be a victim.

He has to resort to insults, just because I have an opinion.

Is Roger a self-loathing closeted gay? Most likely."

Did I anticipate his next mindless knee jerk foam flecked response or what?!

Go dtl!! We love watching you do the crazy dance while blasting yourself in the foot with both barrels! LOL!!!

downtownlad said...

I'm still thin Palladian. And you're still fat.

Like I said. There is nothing more pathetic in this world than a fat, gay man. He will never get any sex. So sad.

Palladian said...

"I've been ignored on here for long enough! Time to throw my biggest tantrum yet! Wahh! Wahh! I'm the baddest faggot of them all! Bark Bark Bark! Abandon all hope, ye who enter here!"

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Peggy Noonan has stated quite vociferously that gay people should never mention their sexual orientation publicly,

I consider myself a conservative, not necessarily a republican and I would prefer it if EVERYONE would never talk about their sexual orientation in public. I don't want to hear or think about what other people do in private. I would like it if they didn't pick their teeth, spit, scratch their asses or fart in public either.

DTL has a fixation on his own narrow world view. Conservatives believe in a limited government and here is a big BIG surprise for DTL and others who see the world in black and white....conservatives are majorly pissed off at the Republican Party which tries to talk the talk of Conservatism, but is in reality Democrat lite and is promoting ever more intrusions into our personal lives. The Republican Party has strayed so far from what WFB thought of and created as conservatism that is more than just sad.

I could give a rip where DTL wants to poke his little winky.

However, I do agree that people who have an often fatal communicable illness need to be identified and treated be it HIV or TB. Tattooing may be a bit over the top...how about nose rings?

Paul said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Palladian said...

"Like I said. There is nothing more pathetic in this world than a fat, gay man."

My God you're bitter for an 8th grader!

Oh deary me! He called me fat! Whatever shall I do?! My life is over! My pride is shattered!

"He will never get any sex. So sad."

Tell that to my boyfriend, Mary.

Paul said...

Hey who I can vote for to imprison terminally stupid gay baiters like dtl? Bush let me down cuz dtl is still roaming the streets.

Palladian said...

"Bush let me down cuz dtl is still roaming the streets."

Ashamed to admit, he does make one pine, if only for a second, for a brutal fascist dictatorship, doesn't he? Run by me, of course.

downtownlad said...

Good for Dust Bunny Queen for just verifying everything I have just said.

I respect her for speaking her mind and not being ashamed of what she thinks.

The other Rethuglicans get upset when I just point out what they really think.

downtownlad said...

I have no problem admitting that I am bigoted against some people.

I can't stand fat people. They are not aesthetically pleasing to the eye. But they only have themselves to blame for the horrible disfigurement they have caused themselves.

But hey - it's their choice if they want to be fat.

Roger said...

DTL: let me break this to you gently, son. I don't mind being called a bigot, homophobic, closet gay, nazi, republican or whatever. Makes little difference to me what you think of me.

You did, however, attribute a question of fact; ie, that I advocated imprisoning gay people based on your allegeation that i support the repeal of Lawrence v Texas. I am still waiting for you document that allegation.

downtownlad said...

DTL: please cite for me where I have taken any position with respect to lawrence v Texas.

By voting for George Bush.

Palladian said...

"DTL has a fixation on his own narrow world view."

DTL has a fixation on his own narrow, flaccid penis. Being nasty is the bitter queen's penis pump and Viagra all rolled into one caustic package.

See, I can play eighth grader too! An admittedly brilliant and urbane eighth grader, but still...

downtownlad said...

And I laugh at all of you pathetic Americans with your messed up economy heading into a recession. Serves you right.

It's boomtime where I live.

Roger said...

By voting for George Bush. Sorry, son, try again--you have no idea who I voted for.

Palladian said...

I hope Ann lets this go on a little longer. I haven't had a chance to be mean to anyone for quite a while. It's cathartic. Bill Buckley would approve.

jeff said...

"So typical."
Yep. You completely ignored my post and went off on another silly rant.

Why is the cost of eggs going up?
Bacause American's are bigots and hate the gay.

Why do we have tornados?
Bacause American's are bigots and hate the gay.

Why does the sun come up in the east?
Bacause American's are bigots and hate the gay.

Why is DTL likely to be a 13 year old, stuck in his mothers basement?
Bacause American's are bigots and hate the gay.


I would be ever so grateful for you to point out where I disclosed my party identity and where I advocated for the imprisonment of gay people.

Reading minds again.

DTL- pissing off people who are otherwise sympathetic to the cause of gay rights since......again, how old?

downtownlad said...

Palladian can't even debate the substance of the argument here.

I've given about 7 opr 8 examples of how Republicans oppose freedom.

He's too busy eating doritos I guess.

Palladian said...

"It's boomtime where I live."

Lol. I didn't know the economy was so strong in Thailand.

downtownlad said...

Palladian - As Buckley would say. You're such a queen.

downtownlad said...

Well Roger. You could prove me wrong so easily by saying that you favor Lawrence V. Texas.

But of course you won't. Which proves my point.

downtownlad said...

Jeff - It's irrelevant what you think.

America has proved itself to be one of the most bigoted and unfree countries on this planet. That's why I left that disgusting, bigoted country.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Hey DTL just out of curiosity, were you as bitter against Democrats when they ruled the roost and gays were still 5th class citizens?

Or do you simply detest all Americans?

Just for the record, I am happy you have found Nirvana in your new adopted homeland and I wish you nothing but success, happiness and as much sex as your pucker can handle. Because the pursuit of happiness is after all, the American way.

downtownlad said...

Thailand is growing a hell of a lot faster than the United States.

And gay people are much more free in Thailand than they are in America.

But I don't live in Thailand. But it proves how ignorant Palladian is about the world, doesn't it.

Palladian said...

"He's too busy eating doritos I guess."

Are you kidding? Organic chicken salad with arugula, shitake mushrooms and fennel pollen and a measure of Duhart-Milon.

Once again, classless and clueless.

downtownlad said...

Hoosier Daddy. I never voted for a Democrat for President.

I voted Libertarian last time.

Roger said...

DTL: you are such a twit: I hereby state unequivocally and without reservation that I favor the SCOTUS ruling in Lawrence V Texas. Moreover, I believe that gay people should have exactly the same rights and benefits that all Americans have.
Having said that, I tell you again: go fuck yourself. You are a complete and utter asshole.

downtownlad said...

Ronald Reagan believed in freedom.

It's been all downhill from there.

Notice all the wingnuts trying to silence me now just for speaking my mind.

Palladian said...

"Or do you simply detest all Americans?"

He only detests one American– himself. Isn't it obvious?

If you respond to him, the attacks only increase in frequency and desperation. I'm actually starting to feel bad. This is obviously an unwell mind on display. Can you imagine the pain and torture that must have been inflicted to create such a twisted sociopath?

AJ Lynch said...

The award for highest percentage of comments on one thread by a single deranged user will now be retired.

May I have the envelope please.......the winner without question is DTL.

downtownlad said...

It doesn't matter Roger. You are an American and you are responsible for the bigoted laws of your country.

Palladian said...

"Notice all the wingnuts trying to silence me now just for speaking my mind."

Silence you? Lol, no hope of that, obviously. And venting your spleen is more like it. I'd hate to think that stuff you spew around comes out of your head!

Palladian said...

"May I have the envelope please.......the winner without question is DTL."

Dammit! I lost?!

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Good for Dust Bunny Queen for just verifying everything I have just said.

What did I confirm? That I couldn't care less about your sexual life or any other aspect of your personal life?

If people want to get married to a person of their same sex, I have no issue with that. The government should have no jurisdiction over you. Just don't pick your nose or slobber all over each other in public. That goes for heterosexual couples as well.

You are confusing Conservatives with Republicans. The issues that I care about are economics, states rights and excessive governmental controls. Unfortunately under our two party system we are stuck with the lesser of two evils.

I AM seriously considering writing in Cthlhu as President and Mictecacihuatl, for VP. After all we should try to balance the ticket and confound the County Clerk.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Hoosier Daddy. I never voted for a Democrat for President.

I didn't ask you who you voted for. I asked you if you are just as pissed at Democrats too. They do compromise about half the population who also set the rules.

BTW, who are the three gays Bush arrested and thew in prison? I knew he destroyed the Twin Towers and has murdered about 876,902,892,199,010 Muslims but I wasn't aware he was out rounding up gays for the gulag. And only he only got three? What a fucking slacker.

TROBlog said...

I hadn't realized that downtownlad wasn't an American. So now I am wondering why I should give a crap about his opinion.

jeff said...

"Jeff - It's irrelevant what you think.'"

Well, right back at you.

"America has proved itself to be one of the most bigoted and unfree countries on this planet. That's why I left that disgusting, bigoted country."

It's gotten much better. Starting the day you left.



"Notice all the wingnuts trying to silence me now just for speaking my mind."

Um...no. So the freedom of speech thing is a one way deal for you? No one else is allowed to speak their mind?

Curious to know though, whatever country you are gracing with your presence, how free would it be without the existence of this particular "disgusting, bigoted country."

downtownlad said...

Yes Hoosier Daddy - I was pissed off at the Democrats for caving in on DOMA and Don't Ask Don't Tell. But they are not in power now.

I believe in freedom and damn well I'm going to speak my mind when I hear Republicans saying they believe in freedom when they do everything in their power to take it away.

As for the 3 Americans that were imprisoned, they were soldiers. I don't need to provide the evidence, because if I did you would just ignore my evidence and move the goalpost. But if you Google it you will find it.

Palladian said...

"I hadn't realized that downtownlad wasn't an American. So now I am wondering why I should give a crap about his opinion."

He is American (well that's how he used to characterize himself. Who knows, I don't even really think he's gay). He made some melodramatic stink a while ago about relocating to some foreign country, probably a place where the hustlers are cheaper than they are in New York.

downtownlad said...

Notice how the Rethuglicans have no respect for foreigners. But we knew that, didn't we.

And I'm still an American - I just choose not to live there. Because I have dignity.

downtownlad said...

So Palladian is opposed to hustlers now.

Typical rethuglican trying to deny sexual freedom and commerce.

AJ Lynch said...

DTL:

Your blog is very well written. I did not see evidence of your great anger there.

stoqboy said...

Not all libertarian voters have their optic nerve connected to their anus the way DTL does. Don't blame that attitude on libertarians.

downtownlad said...

AJ - Who says I'm angry. I'm having fun.

I just happen to type extremely fast, which bugs the hell out of people here. Don't mistake fast responses with anger.

MadisonMan said...

However, I do agree that people who have an often fatal communicable illness need to be identified and treated be it HIV or TB.

That's not a very conservative viewpoint at all, and I disagree with it. It's not my business if my neighbor as HIV or TB (or MRSA, just to extend the list) -- unless they want to tell me about it.

Palladian said...

"Typical rethuglican trying to deny sexual freedom and commerce."

Did I write that I was opposed to them? I just implied that the ones in New York, where you used to claim you lived, were probably more expensive than they are in Thailand.

But what difference does it make? I don't care if you lie about what I write. You're a psycho and a clown and everyone laughs at you.

Hoosier Daddy said...

As for the 3 Americans that were imprisoned, they were soldiers. I don't need to provide the evidence, because if I did you would just ignore my evidence and move the goalpost. But if you Google it you will find it.

Well a cursory Google turned up a case of three soldiers who received 90 day jail sentences for appearing on a gay porn site in addition to charges of cocaine possession.

If that's your beef, that's rather weak. Hardly what some might consider model behavior for a soldier. Last time I looked, being gay got one discharged not imprisoned.

You know DTL, its a tad narcissitic of you to condemn an entire nation because you personally feel persecuted. There are millions of gay people living and enjoying life in the US. You clearly have some issues with the GOP on gay rights and that's fine but it hardly makes us a bigoted and unfree nation.

downtownlad said...

Palladian - I have a net worth about 50 times greater than yours. I live in an apartment that is probably 8 times bigger. And I'm better looking.

And I drive you crazy.

Sorry - but that puts a huge smile on my face.

Trooper York said...

"The award for highest percentage of comments on one thread by a single deranged user will now be retired."

I beg to differ. My good work on the insane American Idol thread is 196 and counting. Sharpen up AJ.

downtownlad said...

Hoosier Daddy - It's not unfree for straight people.

For gay people, it's extremely unfree. And there are at least 20 countries where we enjoy more freedom. Including South Africa by the way.

That's pathetic, and I will continue to shame people until it's changed. And however much people want to "laugh" at me, I think it is working.

People are more embarrassed on this site to admit that they favor sodomy laws than they did a few years ago. But if you go to blogs where gays are banned (Red State, Free Republic, etc.) you will see the same venom spouted on a daily basis.

downtownlad said...

It's night time here. Gotta go to bed. Ta ta.

downtownlad said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
rcocean said...

Excellent, classy column by Noonan.

TROBlog said...

And I'm still an American - I just choose not to live there. Because I have dignity.

Well, you may have dignity (although your words are anything but dignified), but you evidently don't have the strength of your convictions. If I hated America as much as you obviously do I would have renounced my citizenship long ago and become a citizen of any number of second-rate nations.

Better people than you have done so.

Palladian said...

"Palladian - I have a net worth about 50 times greater than yours."

Oh I wouldn't assume that, honey. But I don't brag about money like some classless peope...

"I live in an apartment that is probably 8 times bigger."

Maybe so. But I live in fab-u-fucking-lous New York and you don't.

"And I'm better looking."

A matter of opinion. I'm not insecure about those things, so I don't really care. Besides, you're an anonymous troll, so why the fuck should anyone believe anything you write? You're probably a fat woman named Consuela living in Lawrence, Kansas.

"Sorry - but that puts a huge smile on my face."

Well at least something does. Glad it doesn't take much to amuse you.


From DTL's defunct blog:

"I started blogging in October of 2004. That was a pivotal moment in my life. I had recently come out to my friends and family. Most of my family, bigoted homophobes that they are, had ceased communicating with me. I really didn't have many gay friends at the time, and having to deal with the coming-out experience when you are in your mid-thirties can be a little daunting to say the least."

Ah, so you "came out" in 2004, which means you spent your life up till then being a fucking coward, sucking cock in bookstores and bathrooms and you have the temerity to preach to anyone about "gay rights"? I was "out" in high school in a rural small town, coward, because I knew what I was and who I was and I wasn't a fucking social-climbing coward like you were, who probably stayed safely in the closet because you thought it would get you a better job and more respect or something. Unlike you, I have a loving family who accept me and lots of friends, both gay and straight, who do the same. I feel bad that you're such a miserable person but, like fatness, that's your own fault, Mary. And it's a hell of a lot harder to change than losing weight.

Palladian said...

"I beg to differ. My good work on the insane American Idol thread is 196 and counting."

And much more interesting than phuketlad's. And you're hotter than him.

jeff said...

Hey there Palladian, I live a couple hours away from Lawrence. Don't put that jackass here. I prefer to think of him in some foreign country.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

That's not a very conservative viewpoint at all, and I disagree with it. It's not my business if my neighbor as HIV or TB (or MRSA, just to extend the list) -- unless they want to tell me about it.

Well, possibly not HIV since it really isn't that communicable unless you are swapping bodily fluids. However, I still think mandatory disclosure of the disease is in order when going to the Doctor and having relstions with other people.

BUT I sure as hell want the guy with TB to be identified and treated, as Tuberculosis a very communicable disease which is becoming more and more resistant. We also have a resurgence of Leprosy in the US, a very communicable disease that is easily treated.

I think it IS your concern if your neighbor has TB and coughs all over your children or yourself and you don't know that they have TB. How about Polio....wouldn't you want to know if you were exposed?

Note: My Grandfather died of TB in the late 1950's when the disease was still fairly prevalent. We were tested for quite some time to be sure we also hadn't gotten it. I still remember the Polio outbreaks of the time and drinking that pink stuff as well as being vacinated for Smallpox. It is never to late for us to have another epidemic cause by lax public health policies and excessive consideration for "personal freedom". Sorry I don't respect anyone's "personal freedom" to make me sick and possibly die.

Protecting the public's health from epidemics (not self inflicted diseases, obesity or smoking) is a function of government. There is nothing un-conservative about that position.

Original Mike said...

Is he gone?

Palladian said...

"Hey there Palladian, I live a couple hours away from Lawrence. Don't put that jackass here. I prefer to think of him in some foreign country."

Sorry Jeff. He lived in New York (allegedly), how do you think that made me feel?

Anyway, he got beaten and he left. Haha. Somehow all of that was fitting in a Buckley thread, though Buckley usually had better opponents.

jeff said...

"He lived in New York (allegedly), how do you think that made me feel?"

Excellent point.

I wonder what would motivate someone to hurl feces at people who otherwise agree on gay rights. Strangest damn thing.

Chip Ahoy said...

Wow. That Peggy Noonan often gets things right.

The comments here are taken in a lot more quickly, the valid ones picked out, once you learn to skip right over the "hey-look-at-me-I'm-gay" remarks designed to drag down the threads and that take up so much space. Damn they're dumb -- taking so many shots at an indifferent world. They flail away in their own little personal narcissistic hateful sewers, splashing like toddlers in a tub. Carry on, children, you're ignored. completely Whatever it was you said up there didn't get read.

Palladian said...

"Carry on, children, you're ignored. completely Whatever it was you said up there didn't get read."

Not even me? That's sad. I thought I was in pretty good form.

Hoosier Daddy said...

That's not a very conservative viewpoint at all, and I disagree with it. It's not my business if my neighbor as HIV or TB (or MRSA, just to extend the list) -- unless they want to tell me about it.

My mother and father both got thier blood type tattooed on their sides when they were kids. They told me it was done during the war. I'm guessing it was in anticipation we were bombed and they needed blood the hospitals would know what blood type as most kids probably wouldn't know.

Imagine trying that today. Heh

The Drill SGT said...

Althouse, Please set some standards.

I for one recommend giving DTL a big "time out". His performance today was not only "non-value add", but was unredeemingly rude to all posters, regardless of race, religion, etc, etc.

Windbag said...

This post is nauseating, thanks to the childish inanities offered by downtownlad, but I would be remiss if I didn't comment on Palladiun.

Bravo, Palladiun, on your 12:29 posting. You, sir, are someone that I would be proud to call my neighbor. It's heartening to hear someone confident in who he is. Anytime you're in the South, I'd gladly buy you dinner and enjoy an evening of chatting with you.

Downtownlad, some day you may mature to the level where you understand that who you are is not determined by your paycheck, occupation, or residence. Neither is it determined by how you stimulate yourself to ejaculation, how you align yourself politically, or who you shun.

Palladiun, again, hat's off.

Trooper York said...

That Peggy Noonan is a big trouble maker.

Roger said...

DrillSgt: I respectfully disagree with respect to DTL. We need to have access to nutcases such has DTL to see just how deranged some fringe elements in this society really are. And the fact they can voice their tripe is a net positive (I am a JS Mills at heart). Plus, interacting with DTL provides me a rare opportunity to employ some of my best cavalry language. All in all, while definitely distasteful, DTL's participation is a net positive.
(Yeah, I know I violated the fundamental rule of troll interaction, but sometimes a mans gotta do what a mans gotta do).

DaveW said...

I consider myself a conservative, not necessarily a republican and I would prefer it if EVERYONE would never talk about their sexual orientation in public. I don't want to hear or think about what other people do in private.

I'd like to associate myself with that sentiment.

Palladian said...

"Plus, interacting with DTL provides me a rare opportunity to employ some of my best cavalry language"

Yes, that's why I enjoy him in strict moderation. It's a wonderful way to hone my insult skills and vent a little stress.

"That Peggy Noonan is a big trouble maker."

Lol, look what she causes!

MadisonMan said...

My mother and father both got their blood type tattooed on their sides when they were kids.

Wow -- that's really interesting. (Seriously!) I can't even imagine having that happen. I could have an A+ on my side. So could my wife! So could my kids! My Dad would get the O+.

DBQueen: I'm thinking I'm on good enough terms with my neighbors that I'd know of any health issues. But we're not so close to them that we could achieve the repeated exposures that tb requires to spread. And it occurs to me that I may be misconstruing 'identify'. If you mean the govt seeks the individuals out and treats them, by all means yes. If you mean the government has some kind of pariah list to identify them, No Thanks.

Middle Class Guy said...

Hoosier Daddy said...
Anyone else find it interesting that the only ones who toss around such colorful language are so-called progressives?


DTL has proven that progressives are just as bigoted as anyone else. He has also demonstrated that the use of inappropriate language is confined to progressives. If the rest of us used such colorful language we would be called racists or misogynists. It is alos obvious that this person is extremely deranged and needs help.

Middle Class Guy said...

downtownlad said...
Why can't gay people visit their partners in the hospital? Because Americans are bigots.

Why can't gay people adopt? Because Americans are bigots.



You, sir, are a bald faced liar. Gays can visit people in hospitals and they DO adopt. What fantasy, fairy tale land are you living in? Titus where are you when we need you?

Ann Althouse said...

I see there is much weeping and mourning over the freshly dead body of William F. Buckley, Jr.

Trooper York said...

It was that nasty Peggy Noonan, she started it.

JDAXC said...

This said it all for me.

"I have a net worth about 50 times greater than yours. I live in an apartment that is probably 8 times bigger"

Ah yes, I can just see the insecurity oozing from his pores. Poor lad.

Middle Class Guy said...

Yeah,
That damn Peggy Noonan writes something and the whole world goes to hell. Gotta have someone to blame it on. It sure isn't DTL's fault.

As to WFB, he was an American icon who will be missed. He was a man of principle and stood by them, yet he had respect for the views of others. He only disagreed with them, he did not hate them. it is a shame there are not more like him today.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I'm thinking I'm on good enough terms with my neighbors that I'd know of any health issues. But we're not so close to them that we could achieve the repeated exposures that tb requires to spread.

Really. What about the guy who is making your salads in the restaurant who has TB or Hepatitis. He is your neighbor too. Typhoid Mary isn't just a myth.

No. I don't mean a black list or a pariah list. But I do mean that if you (in the generic)are carrying a disease that can spread to others you must be treated and/or isolated, whether you like it or not. If you are carrying a disease that can be transmitted like HIV (not just a common cold) you must identify to others when appropriate that you have it. That doesn't mean you need to wear a big HIV patch but if you were my dentist or my lover...I would like to know.

We have millions of illegals in this country bringing us all kinds of nifty diseases from their third world environments that we thought were eradicated here. In the name of political correctness, we don't screen people when they enter our country. The majority, we don't even know, officially, that they are here. If we were exposed to a pandemic disease like Smallpox, do you imagine that we would be able to quarantine people or would our "rights" allow sick people to further expose others.

Progressive liberalism will be the death of us all. There is much to be said about the small government non-intrusion beliefs of Conservatives. There is also a time and a place for government intrusion. Epidemics and communiciable diseases is one area that I feel it is acceptable for the government to act. Telling me not to eat transfat? They can go stuff it with oreo cookies.

John K. said...

Yes, can we get back to the issue -- namely, that Noonan's putative "something known as American conservatism" is incoherent and self-contradictory and therefore arguably non-existent?

Here's one good thing about William F. Buckley Jr., from a C-SPAN interview in 2000 with Brian Lamb, (http://www.wealthandwant.com/docs/Buckley_HG.html): Mr. Buckley explained that he had not said much publicly about his support for Henry George's ideas because "I'm beaten down by my right-wing theorists and intellectual friends. They always find something wrong with the Single-Tax idea. What I'm talking about Mr. Lamb is Henry George who said there is infinite capacity to increase capital and to increase labor, but none to increase land, and since wealth is a function of how they play against each other, land should be thought of as common property. The effect of this would be that if you have a parking lot and the Empire State Building next to it, the tax on the parking lot should be the same as the tax on the Empire State Building, because you shouldn't encourage land speculation. Anyway I've run into tons of situations where I think the Single-Tax theory would be applicable. We should remember also this about Henry George, he was sort of co-opted by the socialists in the 20s and the 30s, but he was not one at all. Alfred J. Nock's book on him makes that plain. Plus, also, he believes in only that tax. He believes in zero income tax."

Here's one bad thing about Buckley: he also said (from http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard6.html)"We have got to accept Big Government for the duration [of the Cold War] –- for neither an offensive nor a defensive war can be waged...except through the instrumentality of a totalitarian bureaucracy within our shores." Therefore, he concludes, we must all support "large armies and air forces, atomic energy, central intelligence, war production boards and the attendant centralization of power in Washington–even with Truman at the reins of it all."

Paul said...

The internet is great for allowing the more chickenshit of the psychopaths to feel anonymously free to expose their diseased souls for the rest of us to peer into. Imagine swimming in that sea of bilious narcissism! Ugh.

But it's good to know what these twisted dwarfs are really like. You know in public they hide their true nature because they're cowards to a man. Only someone whose hatred is so pent up with no outlet erupts so viciously and with such abandon.

I don't think you fine folks should actually try and debate him as if he was persuadable with reason or logic. He's just a hate filled self loathing neurotic looking for a target to unload his pain on to. The best tactic is mockery. If he thinks he's getting under your skin, or he's being taken seriously it only feeds the monster. If you just laugh at him the engine of his scorn will simply run out of gas.

Simon said...

downtownlad said...
"I just happen to type extremely fast, which bugs the hell out of people here."

It's not the fast typing that bugs people here, it's the slow thinking. Geologically-paced thinking. I like how you've become completely predictable, as well - as you've done about me in the past, you made an unsupported assertion about what Roger believes, and when challenged to prove the assertion, try to bootstrap your way out of it by demanding he make an immediate declaration of support for your preferred position. I think it's unfortunate that he chose to play your game, but the denouement reinforces my view that's it's a mistake to play that game with you, because as soon as Roger complied with your request, you moved the goalposts: it doesn't matter that he'd done what you asked, because he's "an American and you are responsible for the bigoted laws of your country." The bottom line for you seems to be that everyone is an anti-gay bigot and you'll keep flinging theories as to the how and why until something sticks.

Your idea that a vote for Bush is somehow a declaration of opposition to Lawrence totally mystifies me, by the way.

Blake said...

Oh, people, don't feed the troll.

ricpic said...

No ones crazier that York. No one.

Ahumanahumanahumana..............

ricpic said...

than not that. Fazamagole!

Windbag said...

Donkey: But that's it. That's it right there. That's DuLoc. I told ya I'd find it.

Shrek: So, that must be Lord Farquaad's castle.

Donkey: Uh-huh. That's the place.

Shrek: Do you think maybe he's compensating for something?

SGT Ted said...

DTL is full of shit on what WFB said about AIDS and tatoos. He was speculating on what public health officials were considering and what other people had said, not making a recommendation. I did a google and all the links that make this claim are leftwing rags and koolaid drinkers that did not link to WFBs column, which I now present.

http://www.nationalreview.com/buckley/wfb200502191155.asp

downtownlad said...

Oh it is so amusing to read the hateful venom coming from the wingnuts.

Nothing makes them go ballistic more than a gay person with his own opinion.

Why am I the only one who responded to the subtance of the thread (showing how Republicans do NOT believe in freedom)?

All the others simply respond with hateful insults at me.

Shocker

downtownlad said...

Drill Sgt - William F. Buckley reiterated his support for tattoos on 2005.

Try again.

Gotta love this William F. Buckley quote . . .

"The central question that emerges . . . is whether the White community in the South is entitled to take such measures as are necessary to prevail, politically and culturally, in areas in which it does not prevail numerically? The sobering answer is Yes — the White community is so entitled because, for the time being, it is the advanced race. It is not easy, and it is unpleasant, to adduce statistics evidencing the cultural superiority of White over Negro: but it is a fact that obtrudes, one that cannot be hidden by ever-so-busy egalitarians and anthropologists."

downtownlad said...

I hereby state unequivocally and without reservation that I favor the SCOTUS ruling in Lawrence V Texas. Moreover, I believe that gay people should have exactly the same rights and benefits that all Americans have.
Having said that, I tell you again: go fuck yourself. You are a complete and utter asshole.
- Roger

I stand corrected then. Roger is not an anto-gay bigot.

Middle Class Guy said...

downtownlad...
Nothing makes them go ballistic more than a gay person with his own opinion.


I am a firm beleiver in free speech and do not believe there is such a thing as hate speech. After seing your comments here, in your case I will make an exception.

Synova said...

If he wasn't rude and obnoxious, people wouldn't react badly and "prove" that they dislike gay people.

It's just like obnoxious street preachers who can show their "persecution for the faith" as evidence they're doing the will of God.

It's really easy to force people to react badly and "persecute" you for your "message" simply by being a jerk.

Beth said...

And what's worse no one on the left will say shame on you.

DTL's a libertarian, not a leftist. Go get self-righteous with some libertarians for not shaming him.

He's right on one thing, though; conservatives aren't vanguards of freedom, not since Reagan did knee service to the "Moral Majority."

Beth said...

DBQ: I agree. No one should ever discuss their sexual orientation in public. So, from now on, please forgo referring to your husband and any children the two of you might have--it brings such unattractive images to mind of heterosexual, reproductive sex.

I trust you won't respect that boundary just here, but everywhere. No "Joe and I went to the beach" replies when coworkers or neighbors ask about your weekend. That's just rubbing everyone's face in it. Mum's the word, okay?

chuck b. said...

In college 15-ish years ago when I was much more to the left politically than I am now (at one of America's more unbalanced liberal arts universities), I very much enjoyed poring through the old, bound volumes of National Review in the library for hours on end.

I didn't think then that it all held up very well, but that wasn't the point. For sure, it a was much more intellectually satisfying read (and entertaining [and better written]) than a lot of the crap I was assigned in various liberal arts classes, although I saw it differently then.

(Thank goodness I majored in the physical sciences.)

Anyhow, I think it would be fun to do that again sometime. If only I had the time...

downtownlad said...

Care to point out my "hate speech" Middle Class guy?

If you want to see hate, just check out the venom thrown at me.

That's ok. I don't mind. I get a kick out of it.

Beth is right - I'm a libertarian, so it's kind of pointless to ask the progressives and liberals to apologize for my words.

I like to mock hypocrisy. And when Republicans claim they are for freedom, yet then try and stop adults from drinking alochol between ages 18-21, stop adults from watching porn, stop adults from using sex toys, stop adults from marrying another consenting adult of their choice, stop people from using medical marijuana, denying adults the right to choose the time and place of their death, denying adults the right to use drugs for pleasure, denying adults the right to use experimental medicine, denying adults the right to get a divorce, denying the right of gay people to have sex in the privacy of their own homes, denying women the right to choose an abortion, etc. - they are certainly not in favor of freedom.

Rethuglicans can hold those views all they want, but call it what it is - a theocracy.

downtownlad said...

Oh - And how dare I forget the fact that Rethuglicans favor the government monitoring all of our e-mails, all of our telephone calls, etc.

Is it no wonder that opinion polls show that Rethuglicans overwhelmingly think that security is more important that liberty.

We have a word for those types of people.

Wimps.

John K. said...

Downtownlad gives libertarians a bad name, if such a thing is possible -- for we are individuals and not mass-men, and I am not responsible for the gutter-talk of any random blow-hard who happens to spout libertarian rhetoric.

In response to his list of things, half of which are either profoundly immoral or morally suspect, that he chooses to single out as particularly egregious examples of what Republicans have no business trying to stop, I'd juxtapose the words of Thoreau: "What is it to be born free and not to live free? What is the value of any political freedom, but as a means to moral freedom? Is it a freedom to be slaves, or a freedom to be free, of which we boast? We are a nation of politicians, concerned about the outmost defences only of freedom. It is our children's children who may perchance be really free. We tax ourselves unjustly. There is a part of us which is not represented. It is taxation without representation. We quarter troops, we quarter fools and cattle of all sorts upon ourselves. We quarter our gross bodies on our poor souls, till the former eat up all the latter's substance."

Palladian said...

"We have a word for those types of people.

Wimps."

Wimps, like sanctimonious, preachy fags who are too cowardly to "come out" until they're in their 30s? Like you, Mary?

Palladian said...

"DTL's a libertarian, not a leftist. Go get self-righteous with some libertarians for not shaming him."

Downtownlad's not a libertarian, he's a sociopathic asshole. And despite some quite notable examples to the contrary, the two categories are mutually exclusive.

Smilin' Jack said...

Ann Althouse said...
I see there is much weeping and mourning over the freshly dead body of William F. Buckley, Jr.


Yeah, I thought this was just going to be another boring WFB tribute, so I missed the catfight. Damn. I'd just like to say, though, that I do like hot lesbian porn, so no one can call me an anti-gay bigot.

On WFB: I get the impression that he was a really nice guy. He did, however, admit to being wrong on the two defining issues of his time: Vietnam and civil rights. So maybe his idolization as wise man and seer is getting a bit overblown, especially at NR.