February 1, 2008

Do you think maybe the problem people are having with Mitt Romney is that he's too...

Massachusettsy?

Think about it: John Kerry, Michael Dukakis.... Is there a Massachusetts demeanor that just doesn't feel natural and normal to Americans in other regions? Something that seems cold or haughty or insubstantial? I mean no disrespect to Massachusettans — what the hell is the word for people from Massachusetts? — I'm quite serious. Massachusetts seems to produce a lot of candidates or near-candidates, and then when Americans take a closer look at them, they experience a strange revulsion.

IN THE COMMENTS: Theo Boehm writes:
I'm originally from California, but I've lived most of my adult life in Massachusetts. I can tell you categorically that the problem with Mitt Romney is NOT that he is "from" Massachusetts. I've been here about as long as he has, and, believe me, you're never "from" Massachusetts until your people have been here...oh...five or six generations. The kittens may have been born in the oven; that doesn't make them muffins.

Mitt Romney doesn't sound like he's from anywhere in Massachusetts; he doesn't have the body language or manner of someone from Eastern Massachusetts; and his religion and Western origins are seriously weird around here.

No, if you find Mitt Romney offputting, it's not because of Massachusetts. It's because he's an uninspiring, stiff bore. They grow those anywhere.

Michael Dukakis was an echt Massachusetts type: a well-tamed little nerdy Brookline doctor's son. Dukakis is, to Massachusetts connoisseurs, from Central Casting. Romney is from Not Around Here. The differences may be subtle to outsiders, but to Massachustts people, they're glaring.

John Kerry is a special case. He's not so much distinctly from Massachusetts, as he is a generic New England preppie. Those types range all over the Northeast landscape, but tend to have been fledged in places like Andover, Exeter, Yale, Dartmouth, and Harvard. They may wind up in New York or Massachusetts, but they usually have little local affinity. Bill Weld was another one of this type—a vastly more amusing and decent human being than Kerry, but very much of Kerry's class.

Of course the Kennedys are from Massachusetts, but they are a weird and nearly extinct breed: Irish who aped the accents and manners of the old Yankee codfish aristocracy. There are no old Yankee aristocrats to ape any more, and the Kennedy accent is dead as a doornail. You'll notice the younger Kennedy generation doesn't sound at all like Uncle Ted or the late, sainted JFK.

Massachusetts is halfway to England: You can tell where someone is from within a small area, what their socioeconomic status is, and what their ethnicity is as soon as they open their mouths. It's fading a bit, but it's still here. And, believe me, if you're from anywhere else in the country, you'll never figure it out.

I remember being at a dinner party soon after I got here, where someone pointed to another guest and said, "Lynn!" The other guest reacted in mock horror and said, "Oh no! WEST Lynn!" All the other guests were laughing their heads off. If you don't know what that was about, well, you're not from around here, are you?

No, neither Mitt nor I are From Here, and we never will be. You can blame Massachusetts for a lot, but please, don't blame it for Mitt Romney.

107 comments:

Paul Zrimsek said...

Aaaah, youah just caaaht inna Romney Vawtex. Mitt's wicked pissa.

Middle Class Guy said...

Could it be the water turns them into cardboard?

Prent Rodgers said...

Bay Stater.
http://www.answers.com/topic/bay-stater

Palladian said...

I've got one word to refute your premise: Kennedy!

KT said...

I think people's problem with Romney is that he is disingenuous at best, and is guided by ambition and what people want to hear rather than by principle.

The Massachusetts thing is just icing on the bitter pill.

Middle Class Guy said...

You had to put the link in there right? The list was compiled by a Brooklynite.

Soooooooo, now we will have to put up with that Califonian, Maxine, and are insipid, syrupy, and snarky remarks about Brooklyn.

Ruth Anne Adams said...

I'll bet Sippican knows.

dbp said...

I think the country likes to elect a moderate. So a Democrat from a conservative region, or a Republican from a more liberal region. If this theory is true then Massachusetts should hurt Democrat candidates from here and help Republicans.

Carter and Clinton are the last two Democrats elected, and Gore missed it by this much: All from conservative southern states. Reagan--California. Both Bushes are transplants to Texas, but have strong roots to new england. Eh, the theory could have exceptions.

Mr. Forward said...

Massholes?

storkdoc said...

Having grown up there, I just call myself a Bostonian. Or I say that I'm from Massachusetts

P. Rich said...

Straining for sly ways to criticize Romney, AA? Tsk tsk. If you have a problem with him, and you feel revulsion, just say so and stop projecting. And you omitted JFK from your ludicrous MA argument.

A brief reader quiz. Identify the correct match using

a. Hillary
b. Barack
c. John
d. Mitt

Vote for me because

1. I survived a plane crash.
2. I have a record of significant accomplishments.
3. My husband...
4. My father was African.

Bob said...

While John and Robert Kennedy were moderate, Teddy is an out-and-out leftist, who should have been jailed for homicide, but skated out of it because of his last name. Most of the bad reputation that Massachusetts has incurred can be laid at his feet.

(Mary Jo Kopechne was unavailable for comment)

john said...

Palladian,

Actually I was going to say the same thing in support of her premise!

Meade said...

Yes, Sippican would know.

He used to frequent this joint. I wonder what's become of the ol' Bay Stater.

Too busy for us lowly ordinary flyover Althousettans I suppose.

Original Mike said...

Me too, Palladin. Revulsion is exactly my response to Teddy.

jfm said...

There does seem to be something about Massachusetts upper-crust WASPs that rubs people in other parts of the US the wrong way. These people can come across as supercilious know-it-alls; they epitomize the proverbial "New England schoolmarm."

On the other hand, many New Englanders have a toxic reaction to Texans.

Maxine Weiss said...

They're called Boston Brahmins.

And, I'm too well-traveled to be considered just a Californian.

I've seen too much too much of the world.

Some people simply defy classification.

Maxine Weiss said...

Well, "middle class guy" there must be some sort of deficit, and/or flaw with Brooklyn, if the place isn't good enough for Althouse to spend her weekends there.

walter neff said...

It's the underwear. It always comes down to the underwear.

walter neff said...

Boxers or briefs? Remember.

walter neff said...

McCain. Skivvies from the Army Navy store.

walter neff said...

Hillary. Old lady bloomers.

Meade said...

"I've seen too much too much of the world."

It's not impossible that the feeling is entirely mutual.

walter neff said...

Obama. Leopard pattern bikini briefs. He's a playa.

Maxine Weiss said...

Reagan was pure mid-Western from Dixon, Illinois, and started out a staunch FDR Democrat.

He then met step-father-in-law, Dr. Loyal Davis, who hailed from Chicago, and taught Reagan conservativism.

Mrs. Reagan was born in Vermont, but grew up in Chicago when mother Edith, married Dr. Loyal Davis.

But there is indeed a certain California brand of neo-Conservativism, kid of more expansive and entrauprenurial (sp?) socially liberal etc...

walter neff said...

Huckabee. A thong. Definitely a thong.

Roger said...

Good Lord, Walter Neff: you don't suppose Hillary is going to be asked something like "bikinis or thongs?" do you?

Revenant said...

what the hell is the word for people from Massachusetts?

"Liberals"? :)

walter neff said...

Temple garments just don't cut it.

Paddy O. said...

"Is there a Massachusetts demeanor that just doesn't feel natural and normal to Americans in other regions?"

Yes. However, it goes both ways a lot. Folks from the East and North don't feel the West and South demeanors are natural or normal.

I think it has something to do with the weather.

walter neff said...

That’s why Teddy could never get elected. He is a typical Irishman. He didn’t understand the concept of the proper attire. It’s like the time he and Jack and Bobby were hanging out at the beach. Now Teddy always wanted to impress the girls, especially with his older brothers around. But being Irish, he needed some help in the package department if you know what I mean. So he decides to put a big potato in his bathing suit and walk out on the beach to meet his brothers. He strides confidently out on the sand and starts walking towards the blankets. But he notices that all the women are laughing at him. He can’t figure it out. When he gets to his brothers, Jack turns to him and says “ You’re supposed to put it in the front of your bathing suit Teddy. You're as retarded as Rosemary.” Teddy’s been taking it out on women and water ever since.

AZ Husker said...

I think it has something to do with the weather.

After living in Cambridge for four years now, I'm starting to think people are just choosing to be assholes. It's a cultural thing in Boston that you don't see in the suburbs -- heck, Vermonters are the nicest people you'll ever meet, and it's colder there than it is here.

I think they actively cultivate a culture of preening odiousness here, and they get off on other people's getting turned off by it. Seriously. And it's not just a liberal thing -- conservatives are more than happy to cut you off or not hold the door open too.

Maxine Weiss said...

With respect to the Bushes:

I believe "uncle Herbie" was actually a true Texan, born and bred.

He was the very famous oil industrialist Herbert Walker Jr.----who financed the campaigns of both Sen. Prescott Bush and nephew Gov. George Bush Sr.

The patrician Pierces are definitely Eastern old money, though. ---Skull & Bones, Bohemian Grove....that type of thing.

Family money. Trust funds.

Not the Reagans, though. Dr. Loyal Davis was not wealthy. And, virtually all of the famous 'Kitchen Cabinent' were all self-made men who earned their fortunes without help.

Pal2Pal said...

Romney may be suffering from people having these kinds of preconceptions about a politician from Massachusetts, but if they would come out and listen to him and get to know him, they would find a far different man there.

Mitt's da Man.

He is honest, incredibly intelligent, and is solid on the issues. Take a look, you might be surprised.

rcocean said...

I would nominate Lowell P. Weicker, Jr. and Howard Dean as honorary Massachusetts politicians.

And lets not forget Weld, who decided that being governor was just too boring for him and quit.

I think Massachusetts is really part of Europe. The "aristocratic" behavior of Kerry and Kennedy which strikes us real Americans as odious, actually appeals to them.

Maxine Weiss said...

I don't understand the appeal of Beacon Hill. The homes look like glorified tenements with a few flowers hanging out the side of balconies.

There are no front lawns, and the streets are too narrow.

True, the public gardens are nice.

I like a wide expanse of land and panarama amidst my foliage and greenery.

But I guess that's why they all escape to Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard, when they need some breathing space. And, don't believe what you've heard: The Vineyard is very snooty and snobby. They aren't laid back, or easy-going at all.

JohnAnnArbor said...

Is it Massachusetts, or is it Boston?

I think it's a major mistake for Massachusetts to have its capital in Boston. It guarantees that big-city politics and Boston's local concerns will dominate state politics. Michigan narrowly escaped that by moving its capital from Detroit to Lansing (a minor crossroads at the time). Many other states with a dominant city or cities have their capitals elsewhere, like New York, Nevada (by chance), California, Texas....

AZ Husker said...

Do people actually associate Romney with Massachusetts though? I mean, in the way they do with Kennedy or Kerry? I don't see him in that light. I live in MA so it's hard to tell how he's perceived outside of here, but it's never seemed to me like his problems are geographic.

Balfegor said...

Do people actually associate Romney with Massachusetts though? I mean, in the way they do with Kennedy or Kerry? I don't see him in that light. I live in MA so it's hard to tell how he's perceived outside of here, but it's never seemed to me like his problems are geographic.

I think is problem is that he looks like that guy from The Office, and kind of acts like it too. A little.

Mortimer Brezny said...

Massachusettler.

Theo Boehm said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Theo Boehm said...

I'm originally from California, but I've lived most of my adult life in Massachusetts.  I can tell you categorically that the problem with Mitt Romney is NOT that he is "from" Massachusetts.  I've been here about as long as he has, and, believe me, you're never "from" Massachusetts until your people have been here...oh...five or six generations.  The kittens may have been born in the oven; that doesn't make them muffins.

Mitt Romney doesn't sound like he's from anywhere in Massachusetts; he doesn't have the body language or manner of someone from Eastern Massachusetts; and his religion and Western origins are seriously weird around here.

No, if you find Mitt Romney offputting, it's not because of Massachusetts.  It's because he's an uninspiring, stiff bore.  They grow those anywhere.

Michael Dukakis was an echt Massachusetts type: a well-tamed little nerdy Brookline doctor's son.  Dukakis is, to Massachusetts conoisseurs, from Central Casting.  Romney is from Not Around Here.  The differences may be subtle to outsiders, but to Massachustts people, they're glaring.

John Kerry is a special case.  He's not so much distinctly from Massachussetts, as he is a generic New England preppie.  Those types range all over the Northeast landscape, but tend to have been fledged in places like Andover, Exeter, Yale, Dartmouth, and Harvard.  They may wind up in New York or Massachusetts, but they usually have little local affinity.  Bill Weld was another one of this type—a vastly more amusing and decent human being than Kerry, but very much of Kerry's class.

Of course the Kennedys are from Massachusetts, but they are a weird and nearly extinct breed:  Irish who aped the accents and manners of the old Yankee codfish aristocracy.  There are no old Yankee aristocrats to ape any more, and the Kennedy accent is dead as a doornail.  You'll notice the younger Kennedy generation doesn't sound at all like Uncle Ted or the late, sainted JFK.

Massachusetts is halfway to England:  You can tell where someone is from within a small area, what their socioeconomic status is, and what their ethnicity is as soon as they open their mouths.  It's fading a bit, but it's still here.  And, believe me, if you're from anywhere else in the country, you'll never figure it out.

I remember being at a dinner party soon after I got here, where someone pointed to another guest and said, "Lynn!"  The other guest reacted in mock horror and said, "Oh no! WEST Lynn!"  All the other guests were laughing their heads off.  If you don't know what that was about, well, you're not from around here, are you?

No, neither Mitt nor I are From Here, and we never will be.  You can blame Massachusetts for a lot, but please, don't blame it for Mitt Romney.

Bart Hall (Kansas, USA) said...

People from Massachusetts are either Athols or Marbleheads.

rcocean said...

Great post. I agree you can't blame Massachusetts for Romney. The Romney's are from Michigan and Utah.
Mitt graduated from HS in Michigan, & went to college in Salt Lake and Stanford. He came to Mass in at 28 to get a Havard MBA, and has been there and in Utah ever since. No doubt if there had been an opening he would have run for the Senate from Utah.

And McCain is not in anyway a real Arizonian, despite the fact that he moved here in 1981. His real home is Washington DC.

John Stodder said...

Wow, great comment Theo. Having spent part of my childhood in Stamford, Conn. -- a sort of bastard child of NE and NY -- what you say rings true. Well said. Expand it for publication someplace. Very insightful.

Richard Fagin said...

Funny, Bart. I heard a joke that Endicott Peabody was the only governor of Mass. to have three towns named after him: Peabody, Marblehead and Athol.

Republicans outside Mass. See Romney as a fake, and that is understandable. Before Weld, the last Republican governor was Frank Sargeant. Gov. Sargeant was more liberal than many Democrats, and reflected the sentiment of the state. We are talking about a state that put Gov. Dukakis back in charge only a few years after "Dump the Duke" appeared on bumper stickers.

Palladian: Kennedy was never governor.

Cedarford said...

Without Pastor Huckleberry being used by "hero and straight-talker" McCain, Thompson would have won S Carolina and Romney Florida. McCain is now "inevitable" and has never gotten more than 1/3rd of the vote.

Huckleberry's fellation of McCain to split the conservative vote after helping get rid of Thompson makes the Arkansas Gov likely to get a deal to be VP nominee as a reward. Somebody should ask him who Goldwater's VP was, because all the liberal media wants to do this election is give the Democrats a badly flawed Republican candidate.

They got one worse than Dole in a home run, with the treacherous, sanctimonious John McCain - as Republicans see him..

McCain is landslide material and Huckleberry is hated as much.

joated said...

what the hell is the word for people from Massachusetts?

My daughter went to UMass, Amherst and after four years of driving around that area the word most often heard was: Massholes.

Fits Kerry and Kennedy pretty well, I think.

Ann Althouse said...

"Yes, Sippican would know. He used to frequent this joint. I wonder what's become of the ol' Bay Stater."

Sippican didn't just leave, he deleted all his old comments. So many old conversations are now full of holes. All your old comments interacting with him have been hung out to dry, deprived of meaning. Whatever his reason for doing that, having done it, it would be hard for him to just wander back into the conversation. People keep expressing appreciation for him, but you should take into account that he treated our community destructively.

Jeff with one 'f' said...

Taxachusetts.

rhhardin said...

John and Ken (KFI) interview Romney just now. He sounds good to me.

Notice what a difference a non-media-conforming host makes.

The guest isn't reduced to blithering nonsense.

tjl said...

Theo's comment rings absolutely true. He isn't FROM HERE, despite having lived there for years. Sometimes the most acute observers are outsiders in places where being an insider requires local birth. (Think Henry James in England.)

I grew up and went to school in Massachusetts but now live in Texas, thus bridging the starkest possible culture gap in the entire continental US. From this vantage point, Massachusetts seems like an islet of anachronistic curmudgeonly charm. Beacon Hill, Back Bay, Cape Cod, are lovely in their special austere way, and what can compare with Boston's phalanx of cultural and educational institutions?

Of course it's easier to be sentimental about Massachusetts when you don't have to cope with its behavioral quirks, or be governed by its politicians -- who can be compared to some rare species from the Galapagos whose bizarre appendages evolved for survival in an otherworldly environment.

Middle Class Guy said...

Maxine Weiss...
I like a wide expanse of land and panarama amidst my foliage and greenery.


Soooooooo, now we know. It is a shame really. It is now we understand why you are so jealous of AA- she has two homes.

I have empathy for you Maxine. You live in the park because you are homeless. Pity. Hey, you didn't happen to run into John Edwards did you?

Maxine Weiss said...

middle class guy: If you don't stop being so cruel, I'm going to 5150 you.

And you know, I can 5150 anyone I don't like.

Meade said...

"Sippican didn't just leave, he deleted all his old comments."

All? By hand? Jeez, how extreme. What a huge loss. He was once a prolific commenter here.

If it was due to any of my thoughtless insulting wisecracks, I'm sorry. I liked his comments. They expressed an intelligent jovial curmudgeonliness I aspire to.

Maybe I should even try to be a little kinder to Maxine.

Maxine Weiss said...

"People keep expressing appreciation for him, but you should take into account that he treated our community destructively." ---Althouse

And yet, you still have him in your sidebar links.

The ultimate endorsement

Maxine Weiss said...

Dear Sippican Cottage:

What's going on between you and Ann Althouse?

You might as well fess up, given my wild imagination.

Actually, All I need to do is initiate an inquiry on the AOL Chatboards and find out the whole detailed, (and hopefully sordid) story....in minutes.

Alas, I'd rather hear your side of things first.

I'll give you 15 minutes to post an explanation, (and I want DIRT)....before I start digging on my own.

Love,
Maxine

(Sent to his blog at 6:15 pm)

Meade said...

Love, Maxine :: Love, Everybrattylittlesister

Middle Class Guy said...

Maxine Weiss said...
middle class guy: If you don't stop being so cruel, I'm going to 5150 you.


Honey, you cannot 5150 me. You must realize a very little known psychiatric-legal point. It is called the Heller Effect and it applies to me. I am certifiably crazy. I know this and realize this. According to the Heller effect, if I know and realize I am crazy, I am certifiably sane. According to Dr. Heller, only a certified sane person can realize he/she is certifiably crazy.

If you see John Kerry wandering around your park, say hello for me.

Ann Althouse said...

Maybe Maxine is Sippican?

But what if Sippican is Sir Archy?

titusfarts said...

I lived in Mass for 5 years and went to school there for five years.

Other New England states call Mass residents Massholes or Flatlanders, specifically citizens of Maine (which Mass citizens call Mainiacs) and New Hampshire.

Interstingly enough the man who came up with the term "massachusetts liberal" is Arthur Finklestein, who is a republican strategist, lives in Mass and recently married his boyfriend.

Taxachusetts is outdated as is ranks 23 in state taxes behind states like Montana, Wisconsin and Alabama.

Massachusetts is a very old state and seem to be more of a European country than most of the rest of the country.

Also, it is a very urban state-I think the most urban in the country. Which lends itself to being more liberal. Also, the greater Boston area has over 65 college and universities which makes it a very liberal and young state.

It has a large catholic population but the catholics are cafeteria catholics and since the Preist scandal many of the younger generation has left the church.

The two largest ethnic populations are italian and irish (very hot and even hotter when they have hot children).

It has also become and increasingly diverse state, compared to the 70's busing crap.

South Boston, where many movies have been filmed, has become yuppified. There are still some of the old school "southie" residents there but many of them have left.

Metro West Boston has some of the wealthiest suburbs in the US. Concord; Shrewsbury; Newton; Wellesley; Weston; (home of Grover Norquist and the richest city in Mass); Lincoln, and many more.

The leglislature is ovewhelming democrate, with the exception of having a republican governor for the past 16 years-which just changed this year.

It also has a large latino, brazillian, black, cape verdean, muslim population.

The state has also changed from a manufacturing hub to a health care, biotech, pharma, high tech hub with many financial industries.

Lastly, it is incredibly expensive. Housing is outrageous in Boston or anywhere within the "128 belt" of the city. Also, the cape, berkshires, nantucket, marthas vinyard are very artsy liberal areas-albeit very expensive.

All in all it is a fabulous state.

It has the lowest divorce rate in the US, highest income per capita and highest educated workforce in the country.

Also, some of the blue collar types here are amazing.

By far the hottest men live in the Boston area.

titusfarts said...

Also the accent is different depending on what part of the state.

North Shore is different from South Shore. Metrowest doesn't have much of an accent.

The accent can be really hot when you are having sex and your partner say he is wicked hard.

Meade said...

If Sippican is Maxine, I'm going to start deleting all my old comments. One by painstaking one.

Maxine Weiss said...

But what, in all my banter, indicates that I work with furniture ?

Maxine Weiss said...

Do I seem like the type of person meticulous enough to methodically delete all my comments, one-by-one ?

I'm more the type who leaves a trail of crumbs in my wake.

tjl said...

"the hottest men live in the Boston area"

How can you tell? Two-thirds of the year they're all bundled up against the sub-arctic chill.

titusfarts said...

I am staying in Boston right now in my company's corporate apartment and it is raining and I am getting horny thinking of having sex with a guy that says he is wicked hard.

titusfarts said...

Just go into any club in Boston and the men will not be wearing too many clothes. They get rid of all of the layers.

They have a large "work out" population here and love to show it off when going out.

I am getting horny just thinking about it.

Maxine Weiss said...

MEMO TO SIPPICAN AND OTHER READERS:

Get over it ! She don't care about YOU!

She's got dozens of students staring at her all day! You think she's gonna give two hoots about some disgruntled reader who storms off in a huff----takes his marbles and never comes back?

Me thinks Sippican overestimated his importance around here.

Face it Pal, you were just a cog in the machine !

Commenters are a dime a dozen as far as Althouse is concerned.

And, if you're not part of the Angel Network ($$$$$$) contributing cash and other goodies, then you are very expendable.

Yes, Sippican, you were only here to build traffic, and once you outlived your usefullness, ran out of steam, the party's over.

She doesn't care about you, and never did.

You didn't know that?

Good grief, even sad Ruth Anne knows she's just a servant around here, and nothing more !!!

Read my lips Sippican: She-doesn't-care-about-YOU, and she never did !

Althouse cares about Althouse, and nobody else.

Love,
Maxine

(I'm just kidding, as usual--- Haha)

titusfarts said...

Pecs, biceps, abs, oh my.

How hard are those body parts?

Especially when the are rippled and cut and toned and sculpted and defined and hard and big.

titusfarts said...

I think my favorite body part on the male is the bicep.

I love to inspect it, carress it, make them flex it and lick it. I also enjoy armpit hair. I like to smell it, stick my face in it and suck it.

I especially like feeling it when it is sucking on my hog. Using the arm/mouth on the hog at the same time so the bicep is flexed is mandatory. Instant ejaculation.

titusfarts said...

I watched the Borne Ultimatum last night and absolutely loved it.

I would love to do Matt Damon.

Has anyone seen Sarah Silverman's recent music video with Matt Damon? The name of the song is I fucked Matt Damon-very good video.

Bob said...

Actually, Ann, this is something I have been thinking about, and I think you are on to something. Did you know that Mary Jo Kopechne's mother died this week? That whole sordid affair made a huge impact on the American people, and was the start of the stereotyped view Americans have of the state and its representatives.

Ann Althouse said...

"part of the Angel Network ($$$$$$) contributing cash"

ahem

well, could some of you then please move into that category? You see the button. I have 10,000 regulars. If you would all just see fit to give me 10 dollars a year, this would be a good job!

10 dollars!

I'm not seeing $100,000 of annual income from this blog, but isn't that a reasonable expectation?

Maxine talks about an "Angel Network," but $10 a year would make this a good job. That's not "angels," that's like a tip at a reasonably good restaurant on one occasion.

Maxine Weiss said...

The folly of any commenter actually believing that he is of any value to the Blogmistress...

We are talking about a gal who has dozens and dozens of guys in their early 20s staring at her, rapt with enthusiasm, for the better part of 3 days a week.

So why on earth is she going to covet some dude in his 40s who deals in furniture ???

As for Ruth Anne, and "Amba", ...they're smart enough to already know they're being used, and they don't care.

Incredible, Sippican, the idea that you actually believed you had value.

And what of your name still being listed in her sidebar links?

Hey, even Althouse is capable of throwing a dog a bone.

Althouse cares about people she feels can do something for her, whether it's Gottlieb making her look young and beautiful on Bloggingheads, or the 20-year-olds who gaze so intently at her in class....

Sippican, ask yourself what were you really offering Althouse?

She's not into furniture.

For God's sake, she doesn't even have drapery.

Your worth to her was nil.

Love,
Maxine

(I'm just kidding, you've gotta know that !)

Middle Class Guy said...

I just saw John Edwards on TV. He was in California. He said that he was going through a park when he saw people living under a small bridge. He had the driver stop the car and he got out.

He said he was a approached by a woman wearing a tin foil hat named Maxine. She asked him not to forget her. She also tried to hit him up for a couple of bucks. He told her she would not be forgotten but refused to give her money. He said he does not give money to strange women.

tjl said...

Maxine, law students very seldom gaze at their professors "rapt with enthusiasm," not at any law school on this planet. The more usual attitude could be described as "grim determination."

Maxine Weiss said...

Oh, the trail of broken hearts Althouse has left lying shattered from coast to coast......

Sippican's positively destroyed.

The devastation is just to much to bear.

Maxine Weiss said...

SIPPICAN SUICIDE WATCH !!!!

Question: How guilty will Althouse feel if it happens?

Answer: Maybe she'll express her extreme grief by partaking of "only" 4 lattes, instead of her usual 5.

Love,
Maxine

(I'm just joking, I swear)

titusfarts said...

I had my pucker waxed at a fabulous spa on Newbury Street today and then I went to a Russian bath (not the kind you may be thinking of) and was beat by a tree.

I also attended Baran Baptiste Bikram Yoga in the fabulous South End of Boston where I saw my third eye.

I am horny fellow republicans, horny I tell you.

Didn't I read in the WSJ that Althouse makes something like over 300k a year? And she is asking for money from us poor peasants.

300k a year is like over a million in NYC money. Aren't they giving away the houses in Madison?

titusfarts said...

I feel the need to divulge my annual compensation.

My base is $175,000 my bonus is 20% and I get stock which amounts to appoximately 50k additional compensation a year. My entire compensation barely makes me fabulous is NYC. Prada and fabulousness in this city does not come cheap. I barely get by and Althouse is bitching about us giving her $10.00 while living in Madison.

I never have been more insulted in my life.

My total comp in pittance in NYC and for that I feel somewhat ashamed and not so fabulous.

titusfarts said...

I am also 37 this year and compared to other 37 year olds in this city and I am doing poor.

Maxine Weiss said...

Hey, everyone....rumor has it Sippican is going all around the Chatboards muttering about some... "slick, butch Lawyeress".

I'm sure he's talking about Hillary, no doubt.

Love,
Maxine

(Tell me when I've crossed the line.)

titusfarts said...

I have done some men with enormous hogs.

One of them was a cab driver from Egypt. I actually had to take a picture of it with my cell while we were doing it in the cab.

I have never seen something so big. It was literally like a third arm. Afterwards, I asked him how he got it to fit into his underwear and he told me that he generally doesn't wear underwear because it is uncomfortable and his hog usually falls out. How hot it that?

I told him afterwards that I thought Mubarek was doing a great job just so he could feel that I was one with his country.

Similar, to when I meet Indians. I always tell them I loved Monsoon Wedding. Patronizing yes but just so they know I celebrate different cultures.

titusfarts said...

I just watched something on IFC and Jon Favreau has gotten really fat.

Maxine Weiss said...

Titus: Did one of those guys you mention have good furniture ?

titusfarts said...

Maxine I generally don't like to do it in someone elses house-too risky.

Maxine Weiss said...

Blame Althouse.

She brings out the worst in me.

I was never like this before I started commenting on her Blog.

former law student said...

I got your Angel Network right here:

http://www.3abn.org/

Three Angels Broadcasting Network is committed to spreading the GOOD NEWS of Jesus' soon return.

Saved by Jesus through 3ABN More >

Theo Boehm said...

Thanks, rcocean, John Stodder, and tjl. And thank you, Professor A for putting the comment on the front of this post.

It was written straight out in five minutes with no editing, and I'm sorry if it shows.  It's a version of a standard rant/explanation about Massachusetts I sometimes do for friends and relatives when visiting California or other parts of the country.  Obviously, each paragraph here is only a stub.  John Stodder's suggestion has given me some motivation to expand it, though.  Perhaps it could be used to revive my long-moribund blog.  Thanks again.

Mr. Forward said...

Snippican?

rhhardin said...

KFI's podcast page has the Romney interview with higher quality audio.

titusfarts said...

How come my posts werent not the title page like theo?

No cred. I think it is homophobic.

hdhouse said...

Theo...that is a masterful comment.

I was in Michigan when Mitt's dad was governor and my dad new his dad pretty well.

He really isn't Michigan either...the auto aristocracy being so divorced from the general population as to be from another planet....and Mitt inheriting well and well connected appears to be as he has always been, a well connected Grosse Point or Bloomfield Hills "son of such and so".

There seems to be a certain class of people now whose feet don't seem to touch the earth..their wealth and connections move them effortlessly from one place to another and Mitt appears to be of that clothe....and its just when these folks attempt to connect with the gardener or the cook or the driver that they appear as they really are.

Meade said...

Evil Maxine said...
"MEMO TO SIPPICAN AND OTHER READERS:
Get over it ! She don't care about YOU!"

No! We're not listening. Althouse loves us. Althouse looks after us now. We don't needs you. Go. away. and. never. come. back.

Joan said...

Meade: LOL

I wanted to speak up in defense of Sippican. His behavior here wasn't a case of "Screw you guys, I'm going home." He had been a frequent commenter here when, IIRC, another commenter started making comments about his children here. That crossed a line for him; when that happened, he withdrew completely.

I think it's despicable what Maxine is doing now, and I don't believe all those "I'm just joking, really" statements, either.

For the record, I also think it's a bit much for Ann to say that Sippican "acted destructively" here. When those comments he found objectionable popped up, he told us all what he was going to do, and he did it. Perhaps you think it was an over-reaction, but then it wasn't your young children that were being targeted.

Mr. Forward said...

Excellent defense, Joan. If puns were forgivable I'd ask.


The three stages of E-mail.

1. Dear Sir, You are an idiot.

2. How dare you question my devastating critique?

3. What I meant to say...

Ruth Anne Adams said...

To join in with Joan: What's this talk of "he treated our community destructively"? It's been Althouse's blog first, last and always. Commenters contribute their own words. All Sippican did was delete his own words. For you to play the hurt victim card on that, Althouse, displays a self-involvement of epic proportions.

Mr. Forward said...

That would be stage one.

Ann Althouse said...

Joan: "I wanted to speak up in defense of Sippican. His behavior here wasn't a case of "Screw you guys, I'm going home." He had been a frequent commenter here when, IIRC, another commenter started making comments about his children here. That crossed a line for him; when that happened, he withdrew completely."

And I deleted the posts that referred to his kids. I did it without his asking because it crossed a line that I have. He chose not only to leave, but to delete all his old posts. Many of us, including me, wrote back and forth with him in many threads. And now all those threads are full of holes. All our old writing is made partly incoherent. This was a destructive thing to do to my website, and although he has recently explained his motivation to me by email, he did not say one thing at the time. I personally felt it as a gesture of hostility toward me. I no longer think he meant it that way, but I still feel that he was destructive toward this blog.

"For the record, I also think it's a bit much for Ann to say that Sippican "acted destructively" here. When those comments he found objectionable popped up, he told us all what he was going to do, and he did it. Perhaps you think it was an over-reaction, but then it wasn't your young children that were being targeted."

I don't remember him threatening to delete all his old posts (as opposed to simply leaving). But it is destructive whether he threatened before he did it or not. I don't even see what I could have done, but I was never threatened: delete something more or stop people (that I couldn't stop) or I will delete all my old comments. But why would that have made it feel less destructive?

Ruth Anne Adams said..."To join in with Joan: What's this talk of "he treated our community destructively"? It's been Althouse's blog first, last and always. Commenters contribute their own words. All Sippican did was delete his own words. For you to play the hurt victim card on that, Althouse, displays a self-involvement of epic proportions."

What? I'm the one who wrote "he treated our community destructively." I have a blog where I make a place for people to talk to each other, and deleting all those old comments that people cared about, took seriously, and wrote in response to was destructive toward this place that I started and keep up. It's a community that includes me and everyone else who is a good commenter. Of course, he destroyed his own work too, and I'm sure he felt entitled to that, but the destructive effect that had on all the old threads that people worked hard on didn't seem to count for much.

Ann Althouse said...

I don't know, Ruth Anne, you seem to realize that I wrote "he treated our community destructively." The first time I read that I thought you thought someone else did. But since my name appears in the last sentence of your comment, I guess I was wrong. How is my concern about he integrity of vast amounts of writing on this blog "self-involvement of epic proportions"?

Ruth Anne Adams said...

Perhaps I should've highlighted the "our" of "our community" to point out my incredulity. This ain't "our" community. It's your place.

I appreciate that you were hurt on a personal level by his departure.

I see the comments as ephemeral. They're just stockpiled in mothbolls and obscurity in the archives. I might work on a comment a little [and maybe a little too much], but I don't care much about the old ones. They're just pushed down in the ever-forward bloggy grind.

If you've ever played Jenga, then you know he just pulled out his pieces. The whole thing didn't collapse.

Mr. Forward said...

Ruth Anne, I love your "mothballs" comment on comments. Disagree with your community comments though, It's Ann's Blog but it's our conversation. It's the closest thing to a "literary salon" or the Andirondack round table this hermit has enjoyed.

"...self-involvement of epic proportions." ?

Maybe you meant Titus?

Joan said...

Ann wrote: Many of us, including me, wrote back and forth with him in many threads. And now all those threads are full of holes. All our old writing is made partly incoherent. This was a destructive thing to do to my website

How much traffic do those old posts generate? How many people ever dive into those old conversations? I know you check your stats, so I know you can probably answer that question.

I agree with Ruth Ann. The comments are ephemera attached to the archives. Sippican has been gone, what, two years now? Many of us missed him when he left but it's not as if the comments section died without him. I won't argue that many of those old comment threads are now incoherent, but so what? It's not as if they are active conversations now.

I have no idea why Maxine dragged up Sippican's name after all this time (I try my best to skip her comments, but that's not always possible.) I think it's bizarre that you've joined the discussion, not to tell Maxine to knock it off, but to take a swipe at Sippican.

he did not say one thing at the time. I personally felt it as a gesture of hostility toward me.

I've never corresponded with Sippican -- so how is it I know what happened? I remember him saying he was going to delete all of his comments, in every thread. I remember him doing it. At the time, it was a little weird, because we were in mid-conversation in several threads, and then, his comments were all gone. I was sad that he left, many of us were, but again, I held no resentment towards him. He did what he felt was necessary to protect his family.

If I remember all this -- and this isn't even my blog! -- why is it you don't? And for you to interpret it as gesture of hostility towards you, personally, well -- this may be your blog and all, ma'am, but sometimes it's not about you.

Ann Althouse said...

Joan: "How much traffic do those old posts generate? How many people ever dive into those old conversations? I know you check your stats, so I know you can probably answer that question."

The archive is very important to me, quite aside from the traffic it generates, but in fact people visit old posts all the time because of Google searches. You can click on the Site Meter and see that for yourself. Or just look here and see the entry pages of the last few thousand visitors. Every day here is like that with people going to old pages.

"If I remember all this -- and this isn't even my blog! -- why is it you don't? And for you to interpret it as gesture of hostility towards you, personally, well -- this may be your blog and all, ma'am, but sometimes it's not about you."

There are hundreds of comments every day, and I don't have time to read them all word for word. I do skim them, but I didn't see that.

I'm sorry you don't see why the archives and the threads matter to me. If I had a way to bar comment deletion by anyone other than the administrator (me), I would do it, because I think when you comment, you are creating a bond with people who respond to you, and if you delete after they've put time into their writing, you are undercutting them.

I don't see how deleting all the old comments achieved anything positive. HIs name is still all over the place in the comments. Many times I wrote on the front page calling attention to things he wrote inside. Many times I complimented him and linked to his blog. That's all still there. It is just a lot less coherent.

And if you want to keep saying that I think it's "all about me," why don't you explain it, because I don't think that makes sense. I'm talking about threads where a lot of people wrote and interacted. But I do have an interest in the integrity of my website, which I have worked very hard on for over 4 years. Why are you insulting me for caring about it? I've never said it's the only thing that matters, but it certainly does matter to me.

Joan said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Ann Althouse said...

How does it feel?