September 13, 2007

Everybody's a winner when Kathy Griffin makes Jesus jokes.

Every time I look at a cable news channel, I'm seeing this story about Kathy Griffin and her Jesus jokes.
Comic Kathy Griffin's "offensive" remarks about Jesus at the Creative Arts Emmy Awards will be cut from a pre-taped telecast of the show, the Academy of Television Arts and Sciences said on Tuesday.

Griffin made the provocative comment on Saturday night as she took the stage of the Shrine Auditorium to collect her Emmy for best reality program for her Bravo channel show "My Life on the D-List."

"A lot of people come up here and thank Jesus for this award. I want you to know that no one had less to do with this award than Jesus," an exultant Griffin said, holding up her statuette. "Suck it, Jesus. This award is my god now."

Asked about her speech backstage a short time later, an unrepentant Griffin added, "I hope I offended some people. I didn't want to win the Emmy for nothing."

The speech drew fire from a leading Roman Catholic group, the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, which condemned Griffin's remarks as "obscene and blasphemous."

"It is a sure bet that if Griffin had said, 'Suck it, Muhammad,' there would have been a very different reaction," Catholic league president Bill Donohue said in a statement posted on the group's Web site. He called on TV academy president Dick Askin to denounce Griffin's "hate speech" and on Griffin to apologize.
So the religious folk can get a lot of airtime railing about the blasphemy. The cable news shows have an easy-to-grasp controversy to do many segments about (always with the replay of the video -- like this). Anybody who has any chance of liking Kathy Griffin gets to see some funny material to laugh about -- and I mean both Griffin's routine and the fulminating religionists. And Griffin -- the biggest winner -- gets mega-publicity and a rich gold mine of material to use on her "D-List" show and in many future stand-up routines.

And sensible onlookers get the chance to make the sensible observation that Griffin was obviously making fun of the celebrities who are silly and self-absorbed enough to talk as if Jesus puts his energies into rigging the Hollywood awards.

ADDED: I forgot to mention all the bloggers and blog commenters who get to say she wouldn't dare say that about Muhammad, etc., etc. Which gives me the chance to say:

1. Hollywood celebrities never thank Muhammad when they win an award.

2. Christians should feel good that people think Jesus can take a joke.

(And I know "suck it" is rude, but it is exactly the opposite of "thank you.")

131 comments:

Saul said...

I think plenty of people won't get the joke, and she may have hell to pay, rightly or wrongly. It will depend on how quickly those offended can organize, as they don't have the off the shelf outrage campaigns manufactured by Al Sharpton.

davidc. said...

Excellent post Ms. Althouse.

EnigmatiCore said...

"Griffin was obviously making fun of the celebrities who are silly and self-absorbed enough to talk as if Jesus puts his energies into rigging the Hollywood awards"

So by saying "suck it, Jesus" she was hoping to offend the celebrities in the category you mention above? "I hope I offended some people. I didn't want to win the Emmy for nothing."

I think that is a stretch-- perhaps you are attributing to her the motives you would have had if you had said "suck it, Jesus?" I think she was hoping to offend religious people. In fact, I think that is what is obvious, rather than what you said was.

jeff said...

She made a joke, good or bad depending on your taste. The interesting part of all this is no one is going to be stabbed, shot or blown up. People will complain, people will justify, people will get a little media attention, but when the smoke clears, no one will be dead.

rhhardin said...

Imagining the offended people is the payoff. Sometimes they play along, and then it's better still. In the case of Islam, you get multiple payoffs with additional 8th century humor absolutely free.

Imus was always questioning whether the Lord in fact cared as much about football games asthe players said ; and if He did, whether thanks ought to be given under the open-roof part of the stadium, in case the Lord can't actually see through fiberglass ; just to maximize the odds given the uncertainty.

SteveR said...

I don't think she was scolding people who "thank Jesus" as much a she was trying to be funny for people who think people who believe in Jesus are idiots. A very easy target and one that has been hit many times before Ms. Griffin.

I've never found her funny, because well, she's not.

An Edjamikated Redneck said...

Well, if that is her 'A' material, it sure explains why she's on the 'D' list, doesn't it?

Christy said...

Boringly bad mannered. But so what? We are talking about an entertainer, not someone marrying into the family.

Zeb Quinn said...

Insulting Christians is de rigueur amongst the self-appointed intelligentsia. What I'm not getting is why you want to give cover to that menagerie.

rhhardin said...

Or, as Derrida brought out in _The Archeology of the Frivolous : Reading Condillac_ , seriousness is actually a subgenre of frivolity, one way of being frivolous.

The joke just puts it there clearly for a moment.

Paddy O. said...

Did she thank Seinfeld? Her show is the same thing that she did on her guest appearance a while back, though maybe with a little less "I hate Jerry".

She's not funny. She became semi-famous in a not funny show Suddenly Susan.

Vicki Lewis was the much funnier redhead of that era, from the much funnier show Newsradio.

So, in that respect I think she's right not thanking Jesus. It's good press for Jesus really. It's bad to be branded with bad material. If Jesus was involved, it'd be funny.

So, I think it's just a little silly to care too much. Jesus himself decided not to respond when he was being insulted. He took it in stride and made an even bigger show out if it.

She wanted attention and she got it. Hey! Kathy Griffin has a show! Good use of media manipulation.

Bob said...

I think she was watching The View and Rosie O'Donnell's fame-jump-via-offensiveness success rather closely, and is taking it to heart. Kathy has some good material and can be funny, but isn't an A-Lister, and may feel that being offensive to the hoi polloi is the ticket to success. Then again, it might just be a quirk of the 24-hour news cycle, and she'll sink back into obscurity.

Luckyoldson said...

Has Jesus ever won an Emmy?

"nuff said.

Shan said...

"It will depend on how quickly those offended can organize, as they don't have the off the shelf outrage campaigns manufactured by Al Sharpton."

Bill Donahue is second to none in this regard. Pretty funny joke; her target was obvious, to me, and as Ann said: those who think the Almighty spends time rigging awards shows (or sports games).

EnigmatiCore said...

No he hasn't. But he has just left Chicago, and he's bound for New Orleans.

Workin' from one end to the other, and all points in between.

hdhouse said...

I will freely admit to being a life-long Lutheran and i did have a born again experience in the late 70s. Moreso, I have spent a good deal of my life in church charity work, helping out, and whatnot. I think I'm a fairly good Christian..not great but ok....say mainstream...so those are my bona fides.

I think she is extremely funny. I take no offense at the remarks because there was no offense intended. The mere concept that God/Christ/Holy Spirit has anything to do with an Academy presentation...well thats pretty much making God mundane and innane

Meteors hitting earth and killing all life off....ok...maybe God got pissed off, winning a TV award...ennnnn not so much.

Laugh a little ok. When Imus was on the air and Bernard McGurk did "the Cardinal" in a Fed-x mailer hat bejeeezus, some of the stuff was was screamingly funny and all of it was horribly not PC and the catholics of the world would have/should have drawn swords and stormed the studio....but it was done not that way. Why can't we get back to "not that way" and just change the channel if you don't like. Jesus.

Revenant said...

he has just left Chicago, and he's bound for New Orleans. Workin' from one end to the other, and all points in between.

Thanks for starting my day off with a smile. :)

Paul Snively said...

Add me as another Lutheran (a pastor's grandson, no less), with a Jewish wife, who just rolled his eyes at Griffith. It reminds me, on a much smaller scale, of all the free press "The Last Temptation of Christ" got from the churches railing against it. Don't like it? Ignore it. But if you play your part in "To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction," don't act surprised when what you end up with is a Newton's Cradle.

Luckyoldson said...

EnigmatiCore,
Exactly.

Anybody who thinks Jesus (if you believe) has anything to do with winning anything is dreaming.

Ever see a football player BLAME JC for NOT scoring?

Doug said...

The "suck it Jesus" part was kind of offensive, but the greater context of the bit was to slam the idiot performers who seem to think that God really cares about who wins something like Best Pop Performance for Duo or Group with a Vocal.

The Edwards' blogger was far more offensive with her remarks about Catholics, which were meant to ridicule the whole religion.

It does show how people who say outrageous things and the advocacy groups really do need each other and feed off each other.

Trooper York said...

Yes in 1980 at the University of Oklahoma...but then he ran for congress and got blamed for a whole lot of other stuff.

Drew W said...

Who in the world would worry about being assailed by William Donohue of the Catholic League? If he and his freelance group amounted to anything more than a momentary, albeit public, gnashing of teeth, wouldn't Madonna be languishing in obscurity today? And Martin Scorsese? Among others?

Back when I worked at Billboard, the editorial staff would gather in my apartment to watch the Billboard Awards broadcast. We'd keep a running tally of how many times winners thanked God versus how many times they thanked Billboard. The numbers tended to be about even, making us even more convinced that we were vastly underpaid.

Griffin -- whose show I've never watched and whose stand-up I've never considered to be all that brilliant -- went over the line for a lot of people when she said "suck it, Jesus." (And going over the line is something that stand-up comics pretty much just do, so being shocked by one suggests that maybe you shouldn't watch stand-up comics.) Griffin's point was obviously a criticism of the empty religiosity of many of her fellow performers, not "Satan is King."

As the ever-clever Butch Walker put it in "A Song Without A Chorus":

"The rappers do drive-bys/And smoke crack and thank the Lord/While us white-bread singer songwriters/Just stand around looking bored . . ."

Jennifer said...

I think that bit is hilarious. And I don't think people who believe in God and Jesus including myself) are idiots. That's actually the funniest thing I've heard her say in a good while.

I think the reactions in the post are pretty funny, as well. I also agree that if she said "Suck it, Mohammed", the reaction would be completely different. And not just from the Muslim sector. I think a lot of the people who find her comments funny when directed at Jesus would find them bigoted if directed elsewhere. Something else to suck on.

EnigmatiCore said...

I don't share the hostility many have towards religious people, and I think that most do not understand what most religious people mean when they thank Jesus, or God.

But that's ok. I don't particularly feel the need to try and explain it to the hostile, especially since I cannot remember the last time I went to church.

I think, though, that way too many people act hateful and disdainful of views they do not understand and have no interest in understanding.

LarsPorsena said...

Could have been funny if there were a whole string of acceptance speeches before hers that 'thanked Jesus'.

My guess is there were not. I can't remember anybody thanking JC for an Emmy or Academy Award.

paul a'barge said...

Tiny cojones is typical of Griffin. She's a mutt.... who cares.

Like the man said, you want to show some courage, diss Allah. Until then, you're not edgy, you're just a slut.

Skeptical said...

I am RC, and think the bit was funny, but I'm not sure in the way she meant to be. The funny line is not the 'suck it, Jesus' but the 'this award is my god now.' For the award is a puny, pathetic thing, given mostly by hacks to other hacks — if she were doing the bit as 'now I've got the god I really want to worship,' it would have been a terrific send-up.

The bit would have worked better if she had thanked Jesus profusely, and then turned on Him — now that I've used you to get what I want, suck it, Jesus! This is my god now!

George said...

As a jewel of gold in a swine's snout,so is a fair woman which is without discretion.

Prov. 11:22

Zeb Quinn said...

I can't remember anybody thanking JC for an Emmy or Academy Award.

Me neither.

While, yeah, many athletes have thanked Jesus in post-game interviews, I don't believe there have ever been any actors or other performers on the award shows saying that. Not ever.

A preposterous straw argument to make so as to give cover to a bigot. Ann, your bigger than that.

Doug said...

Just watch a few past Grammy Awards, especially in the hip hop or R & B catagories, and there are plenty giving praise to Jesus. Bill Maher had a great bit on it.

Ron said...

I want to see an actor threaten to convert to another religion if Jesus doesn't win him that Oscar!

"What!?! Best Supporting? Christ -- I'm outta here!!!"

knoxwhirled said...

jennifer said everything I was going to say, but said it a whole lot better than I would have.

The "Catholic League" guy should have just ignored it instead of making a big deal out of it. If Christians acted like they weren't bothered and laughed along, they'd become less a target of this stuff. (Or maybe not... some anti-religion people seem to garner a lot of self-esteem from their position and might continue regardless.)

Ron said...

Would praising Jesus for your award be known as Method-ism acting?

Chip Ahoy said...

And let the outrage begin.

It would be hilarious to see her struck struck by lightning on the spot.

hdhouse said...

paul a'barge said...
Tiny cojones is typical of Griffin. She's a mutt.... who cares.Like the man said, you want to show some courage, diss Allah. Until then, you're not edgy, you're just a slut."


Speaking of sick puppies paul, go to the vet...you need help. fast.

EnigmatiCore said...

"If Christians acted like they weren't bothered and laughed along, they'd become less a target of this stuff."

Actually, there is another religion that takes the exact opposite approach, and is rarely (if ever) a target of this stuff. Funny, that.

"(Or maybe not... some anti-religion people seem to garner a lot of self-esteem from their position and might continue regardless.)"

That's my bet.

SteveR said...

Just to be clear, she describes herself as a "militant atheist".

Also when someone thanks Jesus in a award/victory moment, I think its intellectually lazy and religiously ingnorant to assume its always or mostly because they are glad he rigged the game for them. There's the slightest chance they are thanking him for things like grace, peace, salvation, (for those who understand, fill in the blanks).

As my kids tell me all the time, after a 1000 times, its no longer funny. I think I heard a guy at the Funny Bone in 1986 make a joke like that. First time I heard it, I fell off my dinosaur.

Quasimodo said...

the "just ignore it" trope is sometimes very bad advice and can prove to be a fatal error.

Danny said...

The more recent the persecution of the religion (whether de jure or de facto) the more tact required to pull off an insult. Besides initially ignoring the holocaust, the US still allowed quotas on Jews in higher education pretty recently. And soft (as well as hard) bigotry against Muslims still occurs today, at least it does where I live. When was the last time Christians were persecuted in the US?

It's one of those unspoken rules of humor/life. Those that master it are merely more socially adept than those who whine about it.

American Patriot said...

To summarize the comments here:

She hates Jesus and so now I hate her.

Get a life, people. It was a joke. And a funny one at that. I'm sure if Jesus was real he wouldn't care either.

Luckyoldson said...

Zeb Quinn,
Jamie Foxx?

Wurly said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Luckyoldson said...

paul a'barge said..."Tiny cojones is typical of Griffin. She's a mutt..."

Nothing like a good Christian...to set things straight.

From Inwood said...

Prof A

Looks like you’ve decided to put down all commenters who don’t think that poor taste against Christian symbols comes under comedic license. I understand the joke, I really do, & I think it funny as a concept: Jesus does not micro-manage. But why “suck it Jesus”? Ah, you have decreed that while you “know ‘suck it’ is rude”, gee, golly, “it is exactly the opposite of ‘thank you.’ ” Exactly. Guess I don’t have your thesaurus. And I wonder what you’d say to a student who said, in class, “suck it, Ann”?

Funny how comics always know who to insult with impunity. As Bill Donahue noted, Mel Gibson, Michael Richards, Isaiah Washington, Imus, & Jerry Lewis all had to eat some crow for their attacks on religion, ethnicity, race, or gender. But you draw the line here.

As do many (most?) successful Catholics. They seem to me (& no, I’ve not taken a survey) to be distressed by the militancy of guys like Bill D. They have made it but still remember when they or their parents could not make it & they do not want to be tarred with broad-brush charges of being kooks, troublemakers, fundamentalists, wingnuts, religious fanatics, and/or low-brow people who say strange things & do strange things in public. “Get a life” they say to the Bill Ds when these effronteries arise. And these effronteries will continue to arise as long as Catholics in general do not care deeply about such things, which I see as a continuing trend.

Finally, it’s, um, funny how ex-Catholics seem so bitter against Catholicism. They can’t give it up.

titus20 said...

I happen to thin she and the comments she made accepting her Emmy is hilarious.

When Ellen Degenerous was a little more daring she had a part of her stand up routine where she would mock rappers who would get up after an award and thank Jesus and then precede to call women hos a bitches and sing about shooting pigs-I thought she was right on and I think Kathy Griffin is right on.

It is a win win situation for her. Having Bill Donahue mad at you is a blessing.

titus20 said...

Her big schitck is making fun of celebrities. If any of you have seen her stand up routine all she does is go off on other celebrities.

I believe her intent was similar to what her stand up intent is-to go off on the hypocrisy of celebrities always thanking Jesus. I don't believe her intent was to go off on religion or religious people who believe in Jesus.

And she is funny, the fags love her.

Joseph Hovsep said...

Zeb: "Insulting Christians is de rigueur amongst the self-appointed intelligentsia."

Interesting association... Kathy Griffin and the intelligentsia. Somehow I don't think many people would make that association, least of all Griffin.

Some people want to make any humor involving religion de facto bigotry. Its not. Lighten up. Griffin was raised Catholic, clearly respects her Catholic parents who appear on her show, and made a somewhat irreverant joke about not giving Jesus credit for her Emmy.

And if she had said "Suck it, Mohammad" the reaction should have been different because it would have an entirely different meaning in the context of Griffin's life and in the context of who gets thanked in award acceptance speeches in this country.

I'm not sure which was more predictable Pavlovian mindlessness: Donahue's humorless outrage or the media's focus on it. One thing that strikes me personally: Growing up in the Catholic Church and around lots of Catholics, I learned to appreciate a certain kind of self-deprecating, tongue-in-cheek humor that is common among Catholics. Whether or not Catholics like it or want to admit it, Griffin is a representative and beneficiary of that kind of humor. If I were still Catholic, I'd be offended at how readily the media turn to the likes of Donahue to represent Catholic opinion on these faux controversies.

Trooper York said...

Another in the just the punch line series….why did he divorce everyone to keep all the money for himself...that’s just god...he thinks he’s Kathy Griffin

David53 said...

2. Christians should feel good that people think Jesus can take a joke.

Why?

Because if people think Jesus can take a joke that makes him a better god? Or just more human?

garage mahal said...

I bet Jesus has alot more issues with the red faced lunatic Donahue speaking for Him all these years than a joke from a comedian. Dude is a carnival barker.

AllenS said...

If you were dyslexic, you could thank dog.

Trooper York said...

Why would Kathy thank herself? That would seem a little over the top ever for her.

EnigmatiCore said...

I like how people who do not believe in Jesus seem to think they know more about how he feels about things than those who do believe in Jesus.

(Disclaimer, I think he would frown upon making jokes designed to offend. But that may be me projecting my distaste for that kind of humor.)

Luckyoldson said...

A good friend of mine has a Jewish mother so they say he's a Jew.

He as baptized Catholic and they say he's a Catholic.

He was confirmed Lutheran and they say he's a Lutheran.

He's spent most of his life studying and lecturing on religion so I sent him over the comments from this thread to see what he thought.

He says this is why he's now an atheist and that the comments were funnier than the bit.

rcocean said...

I like the fact that Griffin, O'Donnell, Bill Maher, etc. make hateful attacks on Christians.

Too many Christians waste their time watching Hollywood produced TV shows and Movies.

The sooner they realize Hollywood hates Middle America and Christians the sooner they'll turn off the TV and stop wasting their time on crap.

EnigmatiCore said...

On that, LOS, I think there is no question.

El Presidente said...

Having seen a few episodes of "My Life on the D-List" the only explanation I can muster is the personal intercession of our Lord and Savior.

Cedarford said...

It is very rare that someone in atheist-Jewish Hollywood dares thank God for giving them purpose and character in life. It's considered bad form. Giffith's joke is then as "courageous" as a joke arising in her Industry against someone "from ignornant Flyover Country" who speaks out against gay marriage. Nothing daring.
Expected.
A joke that indears her to Hollywood insiders.
What IS daring is Michael Medved or Joe Lieberman speaking out against the sea of morally berift trash the Moguls crank out for "dumb masses". Or Forrest Whitaker -who was a lock for Oscar for his talent in playing Idi Amin - being one of the very few actually crediting Jesus with helping him pulling his life in order so he could go on and become a person who could accomplish things..

She probably could have made her point without saying "suck-it".
Wake me up when she starts doing "Mel Gibson was right" jokes...THAT would be courageous...

paul a'barge said...

The "Catholic League" guy should have just ignored it instead of making a big deal out of it. If Christians acted like they weren't bothered and laughed along, they'd become less a target of this stuff.

Yeah.

that's what they told the Jews, back around 1935.

Given the historical evidence that not only refutes this approach but has pretty much put this approach in the grave, you'd have to wonder.

Would anyone but a knob say something like this?

EnigmatiCore said...

Amazing but true-- Cedarford somehow decides to make his comment one about the Jews.

Whodathunk?

paul a'barge said...

Nothing like a good Christian...to set things straight.

You know, it's never Christians who pull out this old herring. Which brings me to this point:

I've got my definition of what it means to live life as a Christian.

I don't live by yours. Now, get over it.

Ann Althouse said...

"I can't remember anybody thanking JC for an Emmy or Academy Award."

When Jennifer Hudson won an Oscar, she said "Look what God can do!"

By the way, to be fair to the performers who say such things, I know that they don't mean God/Jesus rigged the vote, but that God/Jesus gave them strength in life and inspiration and helped them overcome adversity and that sort of thing.

from inwood: "Guess I don’t have your thesaurus. And I wonder what you’d say to a student who said, in class, “suck it, Ann”?"

I looked up from my computer to think about how to answer that and the first thing I saw -- the first thing I saw! -- was a guy wearing a T-shirt that says "Fuck your God."

David53 said.."'2. Christians should feel good that people think Jesus can take a joke.' Why? Because if people think Jesus can take a joke that makes him a better god? Or just more human?"

Because it's a relief once in a while to have an image of the divine that doesn't sound like a personality that, if it were in a human being, he'd be a complete asshole.

EnigmatiCore said..."I like how people who do not believe in Jesus seem to think they know more about how he feels about things than those who do believe in Jesus. (Disclaimer, I think he would frown upon making jokes designed to offend. But that may be me projecting my distaste for that kind of humor.)"

Ergo, EntimatiCore doesn't believe in Jesus.

hdhouse said...

ahhh paul...my little midget (mental and other)...look fella, this wasn't nazi...you trot that out like its germane but even a little ratasshole like you knows better..you just want some attention because you are short and a fool. can't do anything about either. putz.

ps...damn shithead fool was a given.

Pogo said...

Griffin has had some very funny moments.
This falls rather more into the Lookit lookit lookit LOOK AT MEEEEEE!! style that is less than endearing. On repeated viewings, one becomes a bit embarrassed for her.

Comedy born of desperation makes one feel the sudden urge to leave and avoid the awkward moment, as if her wig were slightly askew, and it was all you could look at.

SpongeBob: They're not laughing at us...they're laughing beside us!

hdhouse said...

ahhh hi ann...just missed your post. you have the patience of job and insulation of cheney

Paddy O. said...

To summarize the comments here:

She hates Jesus and so now I hate her.


Ha! Reminds me of the Democrats and Petraeus. Pre-decided summary.

Seems that hardly anyone came down with your summary, let alone the comments as a whole.

My position, at least, is more that I didn't like her ever and still don't. I've never thought she was funny, so I'm more biased against her never making me laugh than anything she's said.

Sort of like if Gilbert Gottfried said something outrageous.

Revenant said...

Would anyone but a knob say something like this?

Would anybody buy a knob compare American Christians -- a supermajority in a country whose culture they dominate from top to bottom -- with the Jewish minority in the violently anti-semitic Nazi Germany?

There's nothing more tiresome than hearing Christians complain about how "persecuted" they are.

danny said...

"Finally, it’s, um, funny how ex-Catholics seem so bitter against Catholicism. They can’t give it up."

Being an ex-Catholic, it took a long time to get rid of all that garbage, but once I did it was a great relief! That said, it's hard not to take shots at those who are still under the spell, since I, of course, know better. That goes for all the religions--I just happen to know Catholicism firsthand, and boy, is it a wide, easy target.

The really bitter ones haven't got there yet, but stick with it, you'll get past it, and be all the better for it!

EnigmatiCore said...

"Ergo, EntimatiCore doesn't believe in Jesus."

Ergo, Enigmaticore doesn't know what he believes. It's a work in progress.

Trooper York said...

Has Jesus ever won an Emmy?
No but on July 10, 1964 he went six for six with five singles and a home run.

ricpic said...

Amazing how blase secular establishment types like Althouse are when Christians are being crapped on.

Paddy O. said...

Because it's a relief once in a while to have an image of the divine that doesn't sound like a personality that, if it were in a human being, he'd be a complete asshole.

This is a keeper.

My impression is that instead of being the guy who gets mad and bitter at an insult Jesus would come back with a sharp retort. Churchill like. That seems to characterize the conversations we're told about when religious leaders tried asking him tricky questions.

Though subtle there's a pretty fair agreement that Jesus used humor throughout the Gospels. He was particularly good at snubbing those in authority. But he wasn't slapstick. They liked their play on words more then. More of a humorist, really, than a comedian.

titus20 said...

Conservatives always bitch when other so called groups (gays, blacks) bitch about being repressed and not treated fairly.

But if some nut like Donahue whines about being persecuted by secular homo hollywood the conservatives are all in an uproar about the treatment of the majority of religious/christians in this country by evil hollyweird left.

Get over it, it was a joke. You don't like her or think she is funny turn her off.

She did go to Iraq to perform for the troups so I guess she can't be that bad or is she?

Also, she constantly is making fun of herself as well as everyone else. Her comic interests is going off on Hollywood-you would think conservatives would appreciate that given their hatred of Hollywood. But if someone from Hollywood supports some republican the conservatives are the first out of the gate to be so excited about some country music star or b list actor supporting their candidate.

The indignation by such a benign comment/joke is fascinating.

EnigmatiCore said...

That was a logical fallacy, though.

Me saying that "people who don't believe in Jesus think they know more about what he thinks than people who do" does not logically mandate that "people who think they know more about what Jesus thinks do not believe in him."

A implying B does not mean that B implies A.

That said, I don't mind a poke at me or what I said above. I freely admit that my distaste for 'humor' of that nature might lead me to believe that Jesus does, too. Said so in my post. I have no certainty, just as I have no certainty about Jesus.

As for your story about your student's shirt, do you consider his shirt to be funny? Or a joke? I doubt he means it in good humor. Instead, I think he's like Griffin. He finds it enjoyable to piss off people he has decided he does not like (a rather large group of people), and he confuses his feelings of enjoyment at causing distress in those he hates with feelings of humor. Not all that brings joy is humor. Sometimes joy is coming from a much darker place.

And sometimes joy comes from purely physical places, but that's a whole other discussion.

EnigmatiCore said...

Trooper, he also plays a mean goalie in Hockey.

"Gretzky skates down the right side. He skates behind the net, finds Yari Kurri at the point, he shoots, Jesus saves!"

Smilin' Jack said...

And sensible onlookers get the chance to make the sensible observation that Griffin was obviously making fun of the celebrities who are silly and self-absorbed enough to talk as if Jesus puts his energies into rigging the Hollywood awards.

Absolutely. All sensible people know that Jesus is a really serious Dude Who only puts His energies into solving important problems like war, poverty, disease, etc. That's why those problems have all been solved.

Trooper York said...

He was also an expansion draft pick of the Montréal Expos in 1968...but didn't get to play that much...that's why the team had such a troubled history and had to move to Washington.

Dan said...

I'm not a huge fan of Griffin's comedy but it seems many of the people here aren't familiar with her. Ala South Park she often offends everyone. Yes, she is liberal and it is obvious. But she makes all sorts of comments to get ratings and attention.

Last year, her reality show followed her to Iraq for a few performances. She got to say in one of Saddam Hussein's old palaces. Her comment then? Something like: "Part of me just wants to menstruate right here on the floor, just to let them know a woman was here."

Seems to me a comment like that could be offensive, but it didn't get the attention this one did.

SteveR said...

A friend got to borrow his uniform while visiting an industrial site several years ago. My friend said he never saw him but the people who worked there told him, "believe us, he's here"

jimbino said...

Griffin did not insult Christians since Jesus was not a Christian and anyway, Jesus is also esteemed by Muslims.

Too many jims said...

Trooper,

Thanks for making look that up. Who knew Jesus had a nephew named Moises.

ShadyCharacter said...

It's been a long time since I've felt moved to comment, but unlike I'm guessing most everyone else on this board, I've actually seen a couple of episodes of the D-list show.

First one was minimally watchable in a "slightly better than that Cops rerun on G4 that I've already seen twice".

The second episode was a TRAIN WRECK of a show. It dealt with the death of her father. First we find out he's really sick. Some incredibly painful minutes of Kathy mugging it up for the camera crew as she talks to her hospitalized dad on the phone. Sobbing and what not in a slightly odd manner. Affected almost. Almost as if she realized there was a reality TV crew in the hotel room with her... Almost as if she was sensing that this might be the reality TV gold moment that gets her off the D list onto the C list.

She then got on the phone with her mom and commiserated. Then turned to the camera to talk about "how strong" her mom is. Just a real pillar of strength. Again in a slightly off, affected manner. Maybe the situation, but given the fact it was entirely staged in front of a TV crew, I think it was more of a twinge about whether her focus should be on what she was presenting as a life-shattering event or on whoring it up for the TV show. The TV show won.

Later we get to see her at the hospital. She barges into the waiting room with the TV crew and has an incredibly awkward interaction with her brother (who I'm guessing was there to see the dad, not to grub a couple of ratings points to revive a fading career). They make some patently false small talk for a couple of minutes and then Kathy has to head out to a gig at some corporate conference.

She's very torn up about having to leave her father's deathbed. We know this because she tells us over and over, while crying in an "I know I'm on TV" manner.

Awful as it was, it was very hard to look away. She gets to Vegas or wherever, does the show and completely bombs. Something about making jokes about hookers and dropping the F-bomb 5 times per sentence doesn't go over with her audience, nurses or something. When the event coordinator comes over to tell her to tone it down between sets Kathy deflects criticism with a "I know I'm dying out there" but you should give me a pass because "my dad is dying" too. Ugh.

Let's just say, after seeing that episode (hell, probably the one she got her emmy for) she's one of my least favorite people period. Regardless of whether her jokes are offensive, she is a creepy piece of work.

Trooper York said...

Yes poor Moises was abandoned by his family in a cradle that washed up in Jamaica Bay...he is now in bondage under the merciless Pharaoh...but we hope that some day he can escape to the Promised Land.

EnigmatiCore said...

At least he escaped the reach of the dreaded Bartman.

Trooper York said...

Yes but he is suffering under the wrath of the dreaded Pharaoh Coupon who demands that his slaves make bricks without straw...they dream that a foreign Duke will lead them to victory and the fallen Knight of the Red Garter will return in triumph…but alas there will be no joy in Mudville….all is for naught…as they are unworthy and unclean…that is why they dwell in the vale know as Flushing…and are fated to fall short once again.

EnigmatiCore said...

And once again the Bronx will be burning?

Trooper York said...

The fire of excellence still burns brightly...a beacon for all to aspire to someday achieve the lofty heights that only the chosen have experienced time and again as they are crowned with all that is their due.

EnigmatiCore said...

A most excellent discussion.

Hoosier Daddy said...

hdhouse said: I think I'm a fairly good Christian..not great but ok....say mainstream...so those are my bona fides.

Then he said

hdhouse said: ahhh paul...my little midget (mental and other)...you trot that out like its germane but even a little ratasshole like you knows better..you just want some attention because you are short and a fool. can't do anything about either. putz. ps...damn shithead fool was a given.

Yep, that's a real Christian there hdhouse.

Too many jims said...

Trooper York said . . .
but we hope that some day he can escape to the Promised Land.


And then Omar said: "From your lips to God's ears."

I would warn, however, that there are 2 Aarons on the squad. But maybe they won't make the post season roster.

Trooper York said...

Omar is secretly working to destroy Pharaoh because of his work in bringing these free swingers to the plate....that is why his handiwork has led to his nickname of Omar the Outmaker.

James said...

Hoosier Daddy said...

hdhouse said: I think I'm a fairly good Christian..not great but ok....say mainstream...so those are my bona fides.

Then he said

hdhouse said: ahhh paul...my little midget (mental and other)...you trot that out like its germane but even a little ratasshole like you knows better..you just want some attention because you are short and a fool. can't do anything about either. putz. ps...damn shithead fool was a given.

Yep, that's a real Christian there hdhouse.

Funny how you decided to take the word nazi out of it, seeing as he was criticizing Paul for comparing Christians in this country to the Jews persecuted by the Nazis in Germany. Are you that desperate to attack hdhouse that you gloss over paul's horrible post?

Joseph Hovsep said...

Wow Hoosier... I was going to simply note that foul language seems not so inappropriate when responding to a suggestion that not calling Kathy Griffin out on her silly irreverant joke is tantamount to not calling the Nazis out on their treatment of the Jews, thinking maybe you didn't notice what exactly hdhouse was responding to.

But now I see thanks to James that you actually edited that critical part out of hdhouse's comment. That's pretty lame, dude. Credibility...

hdhouse said...

Hoosier Daddy said...
"Yep, that's a real Christian there hdhouse."


sure is Hoosier. given a bad disposition and some anti-christian rhetoric, i could have give the little slimeball a lot worse...but i didn't. god is good. god is great. yeah god. pass the grub.

Trooper York said...

Both Whitey Ford and Jerry Koosman were know to throw slimeballs...as was the great Gaylord Perry...who was the most well know hurler with the dubious oil content...however my personal favorite was the Baltimore Orioles own Russ "Scuzz" Grimsely who had long jerri curled hair that he would run his fingers through to load up the ball...just to digress slightly from slimeballs to baseball...now back to your regularly scheduled invective.

Revenant said...

Read the original work and judge the character based on his own words, not how others have mangled the context?

That would be nice -- if we had access to Jesus' own words. The man died two thousand years ago and nobody had the presence of mind to bring a video camera to the crucifixion.

What we have access to is a number of Gospels, written by authors of unknown intellect and credibility, based on (at best) second-hand accounts of what Jesus said. So guessing what he actually said is... well, just guesswork.

Paddy O. said...

What we have access to is a number of Gospels, written by authors of unknown intellect and credibility, based on (at best) second-hand accounts of what Jesus said. So guessing what he actually said is... well, just guesswork.

Well. Just as every academic discipline is guess work. And for that matter just as everything said by anyone before the present era is guesswork. There are actually advanced degrees on this sort of thing, such as history and NT studies. Neill and Wright's book on NT criticism is an excellent study of the non-guesswork of the task of determining what Jesus said.

Methadras said...

Folks, let's just try to remember that what she said might be and probably is offensive to Christians that at least care about this stuff, but what is the response? The Catholic League has issued a statement of denunciation. You don't see rioting in the streets, there aren't any bombs, beheading, or butchery that is occurring over this. However, I can bet any of you good money that if she had replaced Jesus with Allah, oh the shit would hit the fan. Protests, riots, hell, even a fatwa or two against the head of Kathy Griffin would be issued at least taking the pressure off of Salmon Rushdie for a bit. :D

XWL said...

So is Kathy Griffin dating Steve Wozniak her punishment for being insensitive, or his punishment for being a bit of an aging ubernerd (albeit with a very large bank account)?

knoxwhirled said...

that's what they told the Jews, back around 1935.


So Kathy Griffin = Hitler? Hm.

See, this is exactly the sort of overblown response Christians should strive NOT have. But who am I to say?

Methadras said...

Revenant said...

What we have access to is a number of Gospels, written by authors of unknown intellect and credibility, based on (at best) second-hand accounts of what Jesus said. So guessing what he actually said is... well, just guesswork.


And even if it is guesswork, is the the content and context of what he allegedly said bad or wrong?

Revenant said...

And for that matter just as everything said by anyone before the present era is guesswork.

Yes, which is why claims what Julius Caesar or Henry XIII would have wanted so seldom lead to bitter recriminations and accusations of bigotry, at least outside of a university setting.

There are actually advanced degrees on this sort of thing, such as history and NT studies. Neill and Wright's book on NT criticism is an excellent study of the non-guesswork of the task of determining what Jesus said.

I would describe Neill and Wright's work as "faith-based". He is part of a modern movement among religious historians of the New Testament to will evidence into existence. History, as a science, doesn't work like that. Wright's work is largely aimed at reconstructing what Jesus "must have been like" based on the historical environment he lived in. There are a number of very obvious reasons why that's nothing more than meaningless pseudoscience, with the most obvious one being that a person's circumstances do not necessarily predict what they are like. This is even more obviously true if you believe, as Wright and other Christians do, that Jesus was not an ordinary human being.

The basic problem is that the four Gospels weren't written in strictly separate environments. They influenced each other (Matthew in particular is largely a copy of other gospels), and most of all were influenced by Paul. All we can determine from analysis of the text is (a) the extent to which they genuinely agree with one another and (b) who wrote what, and when. But the answer to (a) doesn't tell us if the consensus was *correct*, and the answer to (b) is, essentially, "we're not entirely sure, but they never knew the guy they were writing about". It is entirely possible -- and I would say that current research indicates it is *likely* -- that the reason the synoptic Gospels tend to agree with each other is that they all share the same ultimate philosophical ancestor, namely Paul.

Dogwood said...

Who's Kathy Griffin? Never heard of her until this post.

She must be fairly bad at her job if the only thing she can do to generate any publicity is telling Jesus to suck it.

And the fact she spent her time shooting a reality TV show instead of being at her father's side while he was dying speaks volumes about her character.

Sounds like a narcissist, but then aren't most folks in Hollywood?

Yuk.


The sooner they realize Hollywood hates Middle America and Christians the sooner they'll turn off the TV and stop wasting their time on crap.

Did that a long time ago. Not much on TV worth watching these days.

Ann Althouse said...

Personally, I love Kathy Griffin. She was funny on "Seinfeld," and then one time when I couldn't sleep, I put on the TV and it was her doing standup, mocking a lot of celebrities, and it was hilarious. That made me love her. If you don't get her, why don't you order this DVD, and relax and open your mind. It's really funny.

Ann Althouse said...

Dagwood, she may be a bit of a narcissist, but she's mainly mocking the narcissism of celebrities. She puts herself down continually, and on her reality show, she often appears without makeup and without her hair done. She's really doing something and doesn't deserve your hatred. Don't assume. Really. Get that DVD and give it a chance.

Xabstract said...

The SuckItJesus.com Kathy Griffin Petition Site...Over 1000+ Signatures Already!

Ann Althouse said...

Sorry, I think Jesus loves Kathy Griffin.

Jeff said...

She needs to team up with Kramer. "Suck it, niggers!" would be the funniest joke ever told.

You know, it's certainly odd how it's always the same group of people need to "get over it" while others need to "get loud and angry"...

Revenant said...

This kind of reminds me of the controversy over Cedric the Entertainer's speech in "Barbershop".

igbalonigbanlo said...

There was a controversy over Cedrics speech? Boring times we live in, I tell you...

SteveR said...

As far as what Jesus may have said and what proof there is, or is not, etc., that why its a faith.

As for Ms. Griffen, I certainly don't hate her, I just don't find her funny, in any case I'm not planning to "call the whole thing off."

Ann Althouse said...

Jeff, I think you're missing the joke. She's not attacking Jesus or Christians in general, but ridiculous people who flaunt their love of Jesus. I think it's consistent with the teachings of Jesus to attack those people.

Revenant said...

There was a controversy over Cedrics speech?

Yeah. Jesse Jackson got all riled up about it.

T-Dog said...

ANN!

holy suck it jesus, i think you're totally right. (correct). i agree wholeheartedly with your take on kathy griffin. i'm so tired of hearing celebrities, rap stars and actors thank jesus for giving them just enough talent to win some stupid award. and she nailed it.

when we have coffee, we'll stick to this subject.

now about bush's speach...you really thought the content was good? truly, what about those 36 countries with soldiers in iraq? isn't that sorta b.s?

btw, have you been to the blue pig for ice cream yet?

blake said...

One of Cedric's characters wandered off the ranch and said something not-nice about MLK. It wasn't a likable character, but that didn't matter. The idea that anyone, even an unlikeable fictional character, could hold viewpoints out of step with--well, I better stop or I'll turn into Jeff Goldstein.

Griffin's hit-and-miss. I remember her goal one season being to get on Oprah's show. And she said of Oprah, "She thinks she's Jesus." Sorta funny. But then she'll ruin a mildly amusing concept with a ham-fisted play for attention, sort of like a female Tom Green (remember him?).

I think it was probably more courageous to diss Oprah than Jesus.

igbalonigbanlo said...

I saw the movie, just never heard about the rumble.

LarsPorsena said...

AA:
You said to Jeff:
"Jeff, I think you're missing the joke. She's not attacking Jesus or Christians in general, but ridiculous people who flaunt their love of Jesus. I think it's consistent with the teachings of Jesus to attack those people."

Let's see your top ten in flaunters at he AA's or Emmy's

Dogwood said...

She's really doing something and doesn't deserve your hatred.

I didn't say I hated her Ann, it just doesn't sound like she's good at what she does, and that whole taping a tv show while her father is dying stuff is just poor behavior.

EnigmatiCore said...

"Sorry, I think Jesus loves Kathy Griffin."

Ergo, Althouse does not believe in Jesus, tit for tat? :-)

Yours, here, is the best guess so far, though.

bill said...

From the movie Barbershop:

Eddie: There are three things that Black people need to tell the truth about. Number one: Rodney King should've gotten his ass beat for being drunk in a Honda a white part of Los Angeles. Number two: O.J. did it! And number three: Rosa Parks didn't do nuthin' but sit her Black ass down!

Eddie: That's what you do when you tired. You sit your ass down. I sat on a bus and got thrown in Jail, and ain't hear from nobody in a whole week.

Jimmy: Eddie, not only is what you're saying not true, it is wrong and disrespectful for you to discuss Rosa Parks in that way.
Eddie: Wait, hold on here. Is this a barbershop? Is this a barbershop? If we can't talk straight in a barbershop, then where can we talk straight? We can't talk straight nowhere else. You know, this ain't nothin' but healthy conversation, that's all.

bill said...

From The Spirit of Christmas, by Trey Parker and Matt Stone:

Stan: Dude, don't say pigf#cker in front of Jesus

Christopher said...

As a commited Christian who goes to church every week, I laughed at the joke. It's funny but the only reason she said it, is to create "moral outrage" to keep her name in print, and pray to God (irony) that Bravo gives her another season, since Barbara Walters wasn't going to pretend to like someone for another season on "The View".

jowan said...

I was more interested in her comment that "this award is my god now." Christians (and Jews) should by now be inured to offensive comments from idolators, because they know what happens to them.

To give you another example, the folks who once criticized Billy Joel's "Come On, Virginia" for being anti-Catholic should have realized that the song was "pro-sin" rather than anti-Catholic.
Doesn't Satan have it in for everyone?

Parts of this post are not to be taken completely seriously.

knoxwhirled said...

since Barbara Walters wasn't going to pretend to like someone for another season on "The View".

Yikes. I'm imagining "The View" in hell: Babara Walters, Star Jones, Rosie O'Donnell, and Kathy Griffin. Oh yeah, and let's just add Kathie Lee Gifford for good measure.

Trooper York said...

Don't forget Maxine...she deserves a spot at the table.

Revenant said...

since Barbara Walters wasn't going to pretend to like someone for another season on "The View"

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the fact that people actually like watching Barbara Walters.

knoxwhirled said...

Don't forget Maxine...she deserves a spot at the table.

ooooooooohhhhhhh no you di-int

Trooper York said...

Well she already has a reserved seat there, so why can’t she sit with the girls.

Hoosier Daddy said...

But now I see thanks to James that you actually edited that critical part out of hdhouse's comment. That's pretty lame, dude. Credibility...

Actually I was only pointing out that is hdhouse's standard way of responding to anyone who has a differing viewpoint that he holds.

I recall hdhouse calling me a brownshirt for nothing more than holding a conservative viewpoint so for him to get self-righteous over nazi comparisons is a wee bit rich.

My cred is just fine thank you very much.

From Inwood said...

Prof A

You ducked & weaved re my point by noting what was on the T shirt of some student who just happened to pass you as you were thinking of a response. Right.

You think that "Suck it Jesus” is funny & acceptable but won't tell us what you'd think if a student in class said to you "Suck it Ann."

Oh, I get it: you'd be mad that he called you "Ann" rather than “Professor Althouse”.

You remind me of the shrink played by Talia Shire in the Caveman commercial. The one where her character, confronted with an analogy to shrinks, in a flustered manner, mumbles something like “but that, um, makes no sense”.

Comedic license when it comes to Jesus, but, hey, academic civility is not to be trifled with!

Noted.

irish4me said...

I am sure Kathy Griffin's Father , a Roman Catholis is rolling in his grave, from the Filth that spew's out of his daughters mouth. Must be so proud he raised a looser of a "HO"! Not very Christian, but after reading some of these comments, I don't think I give a good "F"!