September 26, 2007

Big debate tonight.

Did you know? Well, pay attention. And comment here, if you're watching.

UPDATE: Is anyone watching? Based on the comments so far the answer is no:
Prosecutorial Indiscretion said...
But Ann, Bionic Woman premieres tonight. And the election isn't for another 14 months.

hdhouse said...
sorry....Ken Burns' WAR is on PBS...

Trooper York said...
Sorry I am watching the Met game with Doyle as they blow another game, good times.

Revenant said...
I would rather be boiled in beezelnut oil than watch another damned political debate at this point.

Wake me when they narrow it down to two candidates per party.

Michael_H said...
Food TV is showing a sandwich making contest. Much more appetizing than the dembate.
What's beezelnut oil? Trooper York is friends with Doyle?... Well, I'm watching. I just can't bring myself to live-blog.

ADDED: Would you want second-grade children to read a story about a prince who falls in love with another prince? This seems like a question that could come back to hurt them. Edwards says "yes" outright, but Hillary blabs up a storm without answering the question and gets away with it.

Another interesting question is whether you'd lower the drinking age to 18. They go on about how bad alcoholism and drunk driving are without addressing the age issue and whether delaying legal drinking helps avoid alcoholism and drunk driving. Finally, Russert asks if anyone takes the other side. Gravel gruffly says if you can fight for the country you ought to be able to have a drink, and then Kucinich forcefully makes what I think is the right argument, that the key is -- if you're going to drink -- to learn to drink responsibly. He adds that the voting age should be lowered to 16. Since he has no chance of being the candidate, I feel free to say I like the guy.

AND: Quite amusing to pose a hypothetical (about using torture) and tell Hillary after she answers that it was based on a position Bill Clinton took. She just smiles and says she'll talk to him later. (I'd like to hear that conversation.) I thought it was interesting that on the hypothetical -- about a captured al Qaeda leader who knows the location of a ticking time bomb -- Obama and Clinton stressed that it can't be American policy to have a loophole to the proscription against torture. But I got the feeling that they were leaving a loophole there: It can't be stated outright so that the world knows we'd do it, but still, maybe we'd do it.

AND: What is your favorite Bible verse? Obama says Sermon on the Mount, but then blabs generically. Hillary Clinton says "The Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Which is not exactly a Bible verse, but okay. Why should the candidates be ready to recite Bible verses? Kucinich holds up a card with a prayer from St. Francis, which fits his theme (peace) but, again, isn't a Bible verse. Edwards is impressive with "What you do unto the least of those, you do unto me." This resonates with his poverty theme, and I like the way he doesn't point out that it does. Richardson says the Sermon on the Mount. Yeah, well, Obama already said that so it's boring. You had time to think of a specific verse in the Sermon to distinguish yourself. "Blessed are the peacemakers" would have been so easy. Gravel: Love! Dodd cites the Good Samaritan. Biden: "Christ's warning of the Pharisees." Which is a clever answer to the question, essentially critiquing the question. The idea is: Don't parade your religion in public.

FINALLY: Some general observations on presentation (not based on whether I agree with the positions taken). Obama seems tired. And he's tiresome. He needs to learn to give crisp, clear answers. Hillary was strong and solid and sometimes charming. Richardson did nothing to distinguish himself. Edwards was on fire. Smart, sharp, and clear. A lot of passion, but not in any way out of control. Dodd and Biden did fine for guys who know they have no chance. Best guy with no chance is Kucinich. Very clear. Knows what he wants to say and says it. Gravel is the old guy that wandered onto the stage to say that teenagers should drink and love is the answer.

WRITTEN THE FOLLOWING MORNING: You know what would have amused me? If, asked to give a favorite Bible verse, somebody -- Gravel? -- had said: "And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

116 comments:

Prosecutorial Indiscretion said...

But Ann, Bionic Woman premieres tonight. And the election isn't for another 14 months.

hdhouse said...

sorry....Ken Burns' WAR is on PBS...

Trooper York said...

Sorry I am watching the Met game with Doyle as they blow another game, good times.

Revenant said...

I would rather be boiled in beezelnut oil than watch another damned political debate at this point.

Wake me when they narrow it down to two candidates per party.

Michael_H said...

Food TV is showing a sandwich making contest. Much more appetizing than the dembate.

Revenant said...

What's beezelnut oil?

I spelled it wrong, but it's from "Horton Hears a Who":

"And, as for your dust speck... hah! That we shall boil, in a hot steaming kettle of Beezle-Nut Oil!"

rcocean said...

Sorry, I'm watching a rerun of "Casablanca" and washing my socks.

AJ Lynch said...

In the office, working and listened to Phils beat the Braves. Now I am waving my rally towel for emphasis.

Why watch the debate to decide a foregone conclusion (Dem primary race)? Hillary will win and there ain't a dime of difference between the 6-7 candidates. Except for Kucinich, he may be a bit crazy but at least he is not afraid to propose big changes.

The bad news for Hillary is I don't think she has the legs to be out in the front for so long.

cheerful iconoclast said...

Gordon Ramsey, the Bionic Woman, and Criminal Minds. Good thing I have two DVRs, so I can record all three.

Michael Reynolds said...

I'm watching the debate. And do you know why? Because there is something wrong with me. That's why.

reader_iam said...

I'm watching, as I can, given single-mother-like responsibilities these days, and other huge things.

Blogging it, I won't have time for.

Maxine Weiss said...

I'm thinking about the Sigma Phi "inhabited Frat house" and those personal bedrooms that they, so willingly, let Althouse inspect.

That takes up all my concentration.

Hoosier Daddy said...

I was out 'binge drinking' with my pards. 2 India Pale Ale, 2 Stouts and 2 Oktober Fest.

All pints to boot and we weren't even celebrating anything.

Maxine Weiss said...

Does anyone here have cousins?

titus22 said...

Good evening fellow republicans and conservatives. No need to watch the debate from me.

I missed you all terribly.

I was in Madrid working on an acquisition for my fabulous company. Very strategic. Working on the integration, pay packages, benefits transfers of 400 plus employees. Sometimes I am so important it hurts. Also, I did score twice. Both were very hot but uncut which it not something that I generally like but like they say, "when in Rome". I was hoping to run into Pedro Almodovar but no luck-love him.

What a fabulous city. Everyone was thin and gorgeous with the exception of the fat midwestern american tourists but we laughed at them and felt much better. One lady was wearing a sweatshirt with a frog on it. Can you imagine. I heard her talk and I thought it was Marge Gunderson from Fargo. Of course she was stuffing her mouth with some food.

What did I miss? Let's get this party started. Althouse, the picture of you down below is fierce. You big old poseur and temptress.

titus22 said...

Uh oh-Miss Indiana is a little tipsy.

You know what they say the difference is between a gay man and a straight man? A six pack of beer. Oh stop me I am on fire.

Looking to travel for your hookup Miss Fort Wayne? Or looking for company? What's your stats? Remember no pic no dick.

titus22 said...

OK, I just watched that squirrel video. Is that real or a joke?

I am thinking it is a joke. If it is real it is absolutely disgusting.

titus22 said...

I am going to a red state in a couple of weeks and little nervous.

I am going to go bet on the horses at Keenland in Kentucky. How butch is that? And then I am going to go with my parents to Ft. Knox where my father was stationed. How butch is that? Hopefully I can find a "don't ask don't tell" type running around. I won't ask and I certainly won't tell. Hopefully he looks like one of those guys from the gay marine website activeduty.com-love them.

titus22 said...

"2 India Pale Ale, 2 Stouts and 2 Oktober Fest."

I have no idea what that is but it sounds kind of hot.

Do you like kettel one and tonic?

I hear wedding bells!!!!!

Maxine Weiss said...

Here's a real mind-bender:

"Double first cousins arise when two siblings reproduce with another set of siblings and the resulting children are related to each other through both parents' families. Double first cousins share both sets of grandparents in common and have double the degree of consanguinity than ordinary first cousins. Genetically they are as related as half-siblings."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_first_cousin

Dumb Plumber said...

The debate is over, but thankfully I missed it. Was watching a rerun of Law and Order and getting ready to record War on PBS for later viewing.

Not that I'm going to vote for any of the Democrats, but even trying to listen to the views of either party bores me to death. They are all lying and posturing. I'd rather give myself a pedicure.

Maxine Weiss said...

Actually, that's not so rare.

If all the Brady brothers, married the Brady sisters, the resulting children would have Aunts and Uncles that were simultaneously maternal, and paternal at the same time.

Get it?

In other words: If my mother married her step-brother, than my mother's brother would be an uncle on both sides---both a paternal, and maternal uncle.

The question is: would it be legal to marry him????

Can "double cousins", marry? Can a "double aunt" marry a nephew???

Is that legal?

Blake said...

[flips desperately]

Deal or--Kid Na--Ah...The original Absent Minded Professor is on TCM.

[that was close]

Original Mike said...

The drinking age should be lowered.

The voting age should be raised.
To at least 30.

zzRon said...

Well, Bill Richardson just had the courage to say that if elected president, he would absolutely refuse to accept the title of "honorary chairman of the Boy Scouts of America". Good for him, and I was pleased to see such an important issue come up in the debate. (YAWN)

titus22 said...

It's hot here in NYC tonight. I have a little diesel tankey on and cute little sporty sweats.

I am tempted to walk the streets and see what I am worth.

One time I was walking the streets and some bridge and tunnel guy with Jersey plates stopped and did me while he was in the car and I stayed on the street.

How hot is that?

titus22 said...

Oh even hotter yet the bridge and tunnel guy had a baby seat in the back.

Palladian said...

Titus, you should consider visiting Iran. I hear everyone is thin and gorgeous. If you go, wear those pink hot-pants.

Maybe you could take Maxine with you. I wonder what the mullahs think of men impersonating women on websites?

reader_iam said...

Missed the prince part to which you refer, as I was upstairs and/or on the phone. Will have to catch it on replay, I guess.

I will say that I read "And Tango Makes Three" to my son back when he was 5 (he's 7 now), and in fact made reference, 1-1/2 years ago in a comment on this very blog, to it being among the books on nightstand. (I'm certain it's still on our shelves, but he's all about chapter books these days, or kiddie encyclopedia-like or focused science reference books these days. Space constraints rule.)

Jennifer said...

The drinking age should be lowered. The driving age should be raised.

Maxine Weiss said...

"In 2004, genealogists discovered that U.S. Presidential candidates George W. Bush and John Kerry shared a common ancestral couple in the 1500s. It was reported that the two men are sixteenth cousins, three times removed. However, the two are in fact ninth cousins, two times removed."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin

Cool.

And, if they both lived in Massechusetts, they could marry !

PatCA said...

I'm glued to the tube! I'm terribly worried about secondhand smoke, and you should be too!

Michael Reynolds said...

I put some brief impressions up at my blog. Brief because Scotch is chasing Ambien . . .

Luckyoldson said...

I thought Hillary, saying the restaurant with Chelsea's picture, served food that sucked big time, was uncalled for.

Other than that, I think she did okay.

titus22 said...

Padlum always makes fun of me and doesn't seem to like other gay people.

Why is that?

I have no interest in going to Iran.

I feel awful for our gay brothers and sisters in Iran. I actually give money to an organization of Iranian gays called PGLO. I learned about them from a CBN special regarding being gay in Iran.

Why so much hostility towards me Padlum? Were sisters. Now lets hug (if your hot).

reader_iam said...

I'm with you, Althouse:

There are two issues (two, at least, but I mean the following, in context):

1) The age issue, and what that should mean, and how that dovetails into OTHER rights and responsibilities, as well as realities and obligations; and

2) Responsible drinking, what that means, and what's really useful in fostering that (AND what's not, or even counter-productive).

Are we serious, or not?

Maxine Weiss said...

Well, Palladian, if you're so determined to 'out' me...you're gonna have to come up with a motive.

Why would I go to the trouble? And, particularly on a site like this....

Palladian said...

"I put some brief impressions up at my blog. Brief because Scotch is chasing Ambien . . ."

I'm a little worried about you... after watching that, are you sure the Scotch isn't chasing the entire bottle of Ambien?

Of course, these "debates" are their own sort of Ambien. Does anyone ever ask a question about something that is actually in the purview of presidential authority?

titus22 said...

Also, Padlum. I wear athletic drag-not pink hot pants.


I don't own anything pink sorry to disappoint.

I do have a couple of cute retro Izod polos though that show off my guns.

And I only wear jeans. Jeans and tshirts-that it.

Palladian said...

"Why so much hostility towards me Padlum?"

Because you're a loathsome person!

titus22 said...

Padlum you sound a little bitter and angry?

Are you? What's going on? We are all here for you. We care.

zzRon said...

"We are all here for you. We care."


Jeese, typical Democrat :-(

rcocean said...

Althouse, you're wasting your fascinating intellect on a boring topic.

Bill Moyers in on PBS later - try to make him interesting!

Hillary is a lock. Edwards and Obama (ightweights separated only by the color of their skin) don't differ from Rodman-Clinton in any material respect.

titus22 said...

Padlum its ok, lets be friends.

I went to an Ivy League School, make well into 6 figues, live in Chelsea, own rare fabulous dogs, have an ass you can bounce quarters off-what's not to love?

Have you tried Yoga? Or meditation? You need to release the unhealthy toxins from your system. I have a great acupuncturist I can recommend? How's your wide second? My masseuese is from Tibet ( I will need to let her know tomorrow that I am with her in the plight of the protesting monks) that can do wonders to release the stress and tension.

Loathsome is such a harsh word.

Can you say Love! Come on-I know you can. Namaste.

MadisonMan said...

The drinking age should be lowered. Those that die for their country should be able to toast it. How can anyone disagree with that?

MadisonMan said...

And no -- I didn't watch. It was meet the teachers night at Middle School. Much more interesting.

reader_iam said...

Is this going to be just another of those threads where we're just gonna say how much we despise each other, and competitively?

Just curious; also, trying to use my blogosphere efficiently.

***

While I'm at it, anyone who reads Althouse and thinks that any one group--lefties, righties, liberals, conservatives, feminists, gays, artists, lawyers, X race, X religion (or level, or lack of religiosity) etc. etc. etc. and ... wait for it ... etc.--is monolithic has to have the most tremendous commitment to willful blindness.

I've been wanting to say that for a while.

titus22 said...

"We are all here for you. We care."

I didn't really mean it-I was just hoping to pacify her.

Really I don't give a crap-how that for not being a liberal!!!

reader_iam said...

trying to use my blogosphere efficiently

Insert time after blogosphere, please.

Maxine Weiss said...

"Althouse, you're wasting your fascinating intellect on a boring topic."

Well, duh. She's been running out of ideas for awhile now.

Would there even be an Althouse Blog without Maxine to drive the comments, and stir the pot?

titus22 said...

"Is this going to be just another of those threads where we're just gonna say how much we despise each other, and competitively?"

I agree, Padlum are you listening...and learning?

Palladian said...

I hate you reader_iam! Top that!

Maxine Weiss said...

QUESTION: At the Meet-Up, when it was time to leave, did Althouse hug each one of the Attendees and thank profusely for showing up??

Wait a minute, I was there. I should know this.

AJ Lynch said...

Patca said:
"I'm terribly worried about secondhand smoke, and you should be too!"

I have been reading this thread and am worried about Maxine. I think her DNA was cloned (unsuccessfully) into this Titus character.

titus22 said...

I think we need to all rally around Padlum right now right here on this blog. Padlum is angry and she isn't going to take it anymore.

Padlum has a negative vibe. It is important that her negativity does not spread.

Padlum....breath in....breath out....whatever dark experiences of your past are now gone.

You are a new girl with new hopes, new hopes new dreams and new goals.

You are an all american girl and you love the life that you lead.

Brett said...

Just so you know Ann, "Do to others as you would have them do to you" is a Bible verse. The reference is Luke 6:31, and that is the exact wording in the New International Version.

titus22 said...

Padlum, now lets align your chakras.

Are you ready?

rcocean said...

"Would there even be an Althouse Blog without Maxine to drive the comments, and stir the pot?"

Well, yes there would be. But your off-the-wall, sometimes over-the-top, many times over-the-line comments, do add entertainment value.

Could you teach LOS to be interesting? Or at least not be incredibly boring, post after post after post.

reader_iam said...

Well, Palladian, I don't why. I find that a little surprising, even. But given that we don't actually know each other, or haven't developed even an online relationship, not to mention that we're geographically separated by something like 1,000 miles, I'm sure you'll understand when I say: um, OK.

Can't top it, don't want to, and very, very, very few encounters on line have provoked anything close to hate in me (anger's a different thing). You weren't involved in those.

Palladian said...

It's a joke, reader_iam! I love you actually!

Beth said...

reader_iam--your comment of 10:19 is why you're one of my top favorite people commenting on any blog, anywhere.

titus22 said...

I am glad to hear you were joking Padlum-have a great night!!

Palladian said...

I love you too, Beth!

Palladian said...

I still hate you, titus!

Maxine Weiss said...

My mother would never allow a boy with an earring in his nose to enter her house.

And, a boy with his ear pierced? She might tolerate that, depending on which ear....but she'd still find it very very disrespectful.

I can't even imagine a boy with an ear piercing going to look for a job.

NEWSFLASH: The job market is closed to boys that have their ears pierced, no matter which ear it is, actually.

If a boy I knew, had an ear piercing....and was looking for a job....I'd sit that boy down and give him a good talking to !

titus22 said...

Wow, hate Padlum-what can I say?

Hate will kill you.

You shouldn't hate anything or anyone.

Do you really hate me?

I love you. You are special. You are unique...you are you. Give yourself a hug.

titus22 said...

I loved the guys I met from Spain for about 30 minutes. I told them too during our love making.

Beth said...

I want to toss out a topic for debate, with no real research or deep thought having gone into it on my part. I have no horse in the race, but it's been on my mind, regarding the drinking age.

Rightly or wrongly, we hear that folks in their teens and twenties seem to be increasingly shallow and immature (I'm pretty sure I read that in graffiti, on a column, down at the Forum). I'm not sure that's exactly true, but assuming it is, I have begun to wonder if it is, in part, because for 20 years now we've been telling people that they're not adults until they're 21. Would it benefit us to lower the drinking age and expect 18 year olds to begin acting as adults?

Maxine Weiss said...

7-year-old boys, Celine's son, Cindy Crawford's children.....they can have long hair, and they should. They're 7-year-old boys, and they aren't in the job market. It's just a cute thing for a boy to have....when he's 7-years-old, and for a couple of years after that, even.

And, long hair isn't the same as an ear piercing. You can always wear a wig, a hat, or cut it off.

But for a guy, who's an adult to have a pierced ear....that seems drastic, far more so than growing out one's hair.

Long hair is benign....it's not a Conservative look, and probably shouldn't be worn by those actively seeking employment.....prestigious employment. But an ear piercing....that's considered completely renegade and subversive.

Life isn't fair, but that's how it is.

Adjust yourself to the realities of it.

Love, Maxine

titus22 said...

I don't believe anyone should say that they hate something.

I think saying you hate a person or a thing is destructive and kills your heart.

Beth said...

Palladian, your passions swing wildly from love to hate tonight. I'm happy to be on the love side of pendulum.

titus22 said...

Group hug around Padlum...your heart is growing.

zzRon said...

"Hillary Clinton says "The Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Which is not exactly a Bible verse, but okay. "


So, does this mean she doesn't like being left alone? Or that she enjoys having people stomp on her personal freedom... and butting into her affairs? Personally,I wish she and others like her would find another favorite "verse".

Ron said...

If I can drink with teenagers, maybe love will be the answer!

Maxine Weiss said...

Oh, don't tell me that parents have no say in the fashion choices of their adult children! That is bunk !!!

Parents influence all kinds of decisions their adult children make. !!!!

titus22 said...

Now that I have solved Padlums issues lets get back to me.

I was involved with a 250 million acquisition in Spain over the past week and it was fabulous. The announcement was made and the street responded well with our stock going up 2.00.

Speaking of my stock my stock was well received in Spain. I always do well in NYC but am nervous that I won't do well when traveling to other countries. It is my own insecurites but it is certainly important to be well received in other countries. Obviously my worries were unwarranted as I almost thought of pulling a Larry Craig in a restaurant over Tapas and Tequila. I did have the will power though and I ditched my fellow employees and brought the thing back to my hotel. I know very little (poquito) Spanish but we understood the language of love or should I say lust. I was a wreck the next day having to give a presentation but I pulled it together and received 10's across the boards. Now how is everyone else doing-

igbalonigbanlo said...

I guess I should finish that script that hunts for and deletes comments on blogger. Gawd

B said...

back to the debate.

The part where Russert asks Hilzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


.

titus22 said...

I have a confession to make.

I drink diet coke in the morning instead of coffee.

Revenant said...

I'm surprised nobody offered up John 3:16 as their favorite. After all, it represents the core belief of Christianity.

titus22 said...

It's important for me to be attractive across borders and cultures.

I don't want to just be desired and wanted by other Americans.

I want to be desired by all people and all cultures and countries.

That's what is important in life.

titus22 said...

Europe for me has been an easy sell. I never have any problem in Europe.

South America is a piece of cake. I am white and they generally like that.

I have not done so well in Asia though although I really don't mind because I am not attracted to Asian people.

Maxine Weiss said...

My grandfather would not allow his son to date non-Jewish girls.

If my father brought home a non-Jewish girl, she had to wait outside. She wasn't allowed to enter the house. And frankly, it didn't matter if it was snowing, a blizzard, or pouring down rain....if she was a non-Jew she was not allowed entry into my Grandfather's house. And, that was final. There was no argument. There was no debate. It was simply the way things were end-of-story.

Guess what? Nothing's changed! And, certainly not in the Job Market.

And so you accommodate them. Be whatever they want you to be. If they want you to be Jewish....be Jewish. If they want you to be Christian....give them Christian. If they want you to adopt certain hobbies and a certain kind of personality....then you mold yourself into that.

Personality is everything. Personality and looks. Skills mean nothing. Intelligence means nothing.

All the big-money, prestige jobs go to those who have the personality, looks, and personal characteristics that fit in whatever "they" are trying to cultivate.

Listen, honey, you might say it doesn't matter to you now....but mark my words....ten years from now...you'll be sorry you didn't at least TRY to mold yourself into what THEY wanted you to be.

Life is unfair, but that's not a reason not to play the game.

Love, Maxine

titus22 said...

I went to a market in Casablanca once and if I looked at a guy twice he would follow me back to my hotel.

How hot is that? But I was a little nervous. There are quite a few prostitutes there.

One time in Rome a guy pick pocketed me while he was blowing me. How embarassing.

titus22 said...

I reported it to the police but didn't tell them he was blowing me. I just said he ran by me and dug in my pockets but I think they knew what was up.

When traveling abroad you should all keep your money, passport and credit cards in different places.

I learned the hard way and don't want anyone else to suffer like I did. I hope my service announcement will help all of you in your future travels.

Maxine Weiss said...

Play the game. Just play the game.

Why is it so hard for young people, today, to do that?

I honestly don't understand.

And where are the parents? (ahem)

Why is it always left to me --to explain how life works to these kids?

zzRon said...

"I'm surprised nobody offered up John 3:16 as their favorite. After all, it represents the core belief of Christianity."


OK, I'll bite :-). What exactly does John 3:16 say? I would look it up myself, but my trusty bible seems to have gotten itself lost.

titus22 said...

I did a guy in Kuwait once in an alley. This was before 9/11. I would never do that now.

I did a guy in Turkey once too and all I thought about was the movie Midnight Express.

I thought what is the worst that could happen to me? Be sent to a Turkish prison and be cell mates with some hot young turk.

I was willing to take the risk.

But if I had to do the Prison Warden like he did in Midnight Express I would of been bummed.

I always have to be the top.

zzRon said...

Never mind. I Googled John 3:16...and am not surprised they didnt bring it up.

Ralph said...

Titus, at least they're cut in Turkey, maybe not washed.
"Althouse, the picture of you down below is fierce." Could you rephrase that?

From memory: For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son, so that anyone who believeth in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.

I can't remember if crucifixion is actually mentioned here.

reader_iam said...

Got it. Useful in the most timely way, for which I thank you.

rcocean said...

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. — John 3:16

Revenant said...

Never mind. I Googled John 3:16...and am not surprised they didnt bring it up.

Well, if you're not a Christian it doesn't mean much. But the overwhelming majority of Americans ARE Christians, and I'd wager that almost all of them know that Bible verse by heart. Hell, I know it and I'm an atheist. :)

The reason I'm surprised none of them mentioned it is that it would be a great opportunity to flaunt their "I'm a Christian" credentials without seeming pushy about their faith to the less-religious. For a Protestant, at least, there is NO verse that is more important or significant. The Sermon on the Mount is full of lots of sentiments that are nice and warm and fuzzy, but John 3:16 is what Christianity's ultimately all about.

reader_iam said...

My 11:58 comment did not have to do with John 3:16, or the merits thereof. That's just where it happened to fall in the linear thread. Just to be clear.

Nope, it had to do with with the fun my comments provoked generally, and on the one hand, that's a very, very good thing, indeed. On the other hand, it's ALSO a very good thing. Clarity is good.

Well, fancy that! So it goes, sometimes.

Have fun, you winners.

Ralph said...

I spliced it with one of my favorites, which Miss Marple misquoted in Nemesis as "Let justice roll down like the waters, and righteousness like an everlasting stream."
Another good one is what Ruth tells Naomi, her mother-in-law: "Whither thou goest, I will go. Where thou liest, I will lie. Thy people shall be my people, and thy god, my god."
Ruth was a Moabite (Jordan), Naomi a Hebrew. Ruth later married Boaz in Judah, and they were ancestors of David.

rcocean said...

"Dr. Dean recently told an audience in Iowa that he prayed daily. On the plane he declined to detail his prayer ritual but described how a 2002 trip to Israel deepened his understanding of the connections between Judaism and Christianity. He named Job as his favorite New Testament book, then later corrected himself, noting that it is in the Old Testament."

rcocean said...

I know my previous post had nothing to do with the debates or any other comments, but whenever I think about Democrats and Religion, I remember this quote about Dr. Dean.

It always cracks me up.

Ralph said...

Rcocean, IIRC, Dean was formerly an Episcopalian. That church has a severe case of ecumentitis, though they used to be good about teaching the text of Scripture.

Mortimer Brezny said...

Hillary Bores, Gives Pathetic Answers. That was the story of the night.

rcocean said...

Ralph,

Didn't Dr. Dean leave the Church over a bike path?

And isn't the Anglican Church for those who don't believe in God? Or it that the Unitarians?

Revenant said...

The Unitarians don't require belief in God. They're not actually a branch of Christianity, although many people think they are.

The Episcopalians do believe in God, although not necessarily in much else. That's why they're about to get booted out of the Anglican communion.

mythusmage said...

Titus22 is proof positive some people shouldn't be allowed anywhere near glue fumes.

lurker2209 said...

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life."

That's King James version from memory, so there might be a small error or two. I would think it's the perishing part that keeps it from being cited by dem candidates trying to appeal to an audience with a broad range of religious beliefs.

Joan said...

The Sermon on the Mount is full of lots of sentiments that are nice and warm and fuzzy

No, it's not. It's radical.

Tod Lindberg's discussion is fascinating.

Blake said...

Jesus was a serious radical. A revolutionary, even, all that "render unto Caesar" stuff notwithstanding.

Just for starters, there was that whole upsetting of the foundation of Jewish tradition: God is One.

Who needs televised debates when you have Althouse? With Titus and Maxine, it's like "This is your debate. This is your debate on Fellini."

AllenS said...

Instead of quoting a Bible verse, let's produce a Republican infomercial:

Opening scene: The Garden of Eden

Adam (played by Fred Thompson) and Eve (Hillary!), are just hanging around. Hillary is wondering why Fred doesn't have to sit down when going to the bathroom, when, all of a sudden a snake (John Edwards) shows up and gives Hillary some apples (contaminated with pesticides), she gives one to Adam and the whole world goes to hell.

Moral of the story: Republicans good, Democrats bad.

hdhouse said...
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MadisonMan said...

Come unto me all ye that travail and are heavy laden and I will refresh you.

I didn't watch the debate, but the professor's account makes it sound like there were interesting questions, at least.

hdhouse said...

So I switched over to it after the Burns' "WAR"...I keep hoping to see a picture of my father..just by chance.

What the documentary shows, better said and demonstrated than perhaps anything to date, is that wars are won when there is a national effort that effects everyone in winning it. No half measures; just total mobilization and commitment. Sure people doubted and didn't want to go, sacrifice, etc., but they did.

Then I watch a debate and Iraq comes up now and then, the war on terror comes up now and then (watched some highlights) and it appears that these condidates squeeze in the war among the other issues.

Russert has the foolishness to ask about a favorite bible verse...why didn't he ask about wearing white after labor day (as someone wrote recently) or your feelings on a college football playoff - for or against?

The juxtaposition is awful and disheartening. I'm very discouraged.

Jennifer said...

Beth - I firmly believe that. I subscribe to that theory in raising my own children.

Ralph said...

I prefer Handel's version, it sings better:
Come unto Him, all ye that labour, come unto Him that are heavy laden, and He will give you rest.

Ralph said...

Hdhouse, it is a revealing question, and it gives everyone equal opportunity to make a fool of himself.

Revenant said...

Just for starters, there was that whole upsetting of the foundation of Jewish tradition: God is One.

If you're referring to the concept of the Trinity, that wasn't developed until well after Jesus was dead.

MadisonMan said...

Ralph, one of the reasons I like it is that when I was growing up, our priest (Episcopal) had a really deep bass voice, and he read that verse weekly with great impact.

Joan said...

If you're referring to the concept of the Trinity, that wasn't developed until well after Jesus was dead.

Define "well after." This doctrine has "from the earliest times been taught by the Catholic Church and professed by her members."

Hoosier Daddy said...

What the documentary shows, better said and demonstrated than perhaps anything to date, is that wars are won when there is a national effort that effects everyone in winning it.

No kidding. Good thing the Dems of 1943 weren't the same ones now. We would have called it quits after North Africa.

The Tunisian campaign lasted six months and cost us 2,715 dead, 8,978 wounded, and 6,528 missing.