August 2, 2007

"Russia Plants Underwater Flag at North Pole."

The real question has more to do with the extent of the continental shelf, but they went underwater 2 miles to plant a flag in some sort of daffy self-expression. Someone could go down there thousands of years from now and find the flag, because it's made of titanium.

33 comments:

knoxwhirled said...

why is everything about Russia depressing.

AlphaLiberal said...

Aren't you worried it's a terrorist device?

Original Mike said...

Planting a flag on the moon was more impressive.

Revenant said...

I didn't realize the water was two miles deep at the North Pole. That's interesting.

SteveR said...

I liked how the Canadian Minister called it a 15th Century stunt. Oh yeah, like the flag will make it happen. If we had only known that we could have done it 2 years ago.

Beth said...

Do they watch Eddie Izzard?

hdhouse said...

A very Russian expression.

ricpic said...

I thought Norway won that argument about a hundred years ago, yes?

bill said...

At North Pole, flag plants you.

SteveR said...

Make that 20 years ago.

Methadras said...

Russia is just making up time for not being able to get to the moon. Either way, this type of nationalistic bravado will be summarily rejected. I'm sure Russian cartographers are already redrawing their borders for a new Soviet State.

Richard Dolan said...

What is the Russian for parce qu'il existe, version sous-marine?

G M Heslop said...

I don't quite understand the argument. Apparently a piece of land that is attached to Russia might extend to the North Pole which has been claimed by Canada for at least a hundred years. How is this different from Mexico making a claim on an un-inhabited part of Arizona because the land obviously extends across the border?

Hoosier Daddy said...

Someone could go down there thousands of years from now and find the flag, because it's made of titanium.

But by then it will be 100 miles below the surface because global warming will have melted the ice caps.

why is everything about Russia depressing.

Heh...read their history.

Original Mike said...

They sank in peace, for all mankind.

dbp said...

Icebreakers have been making it to the north pole for decades.

It would be funny if one of them casts a net while there, hauls up the Russian flag and sells it on ebay.

jane said...

I've a large Soviet flag from a trip a few years ago I could plant in the vodka section of the local package store for sovereign pillage rights. They wouldn’t know the difference and I can’t think of anything else to do with it.

Hoosier Daddy said...

They wouldn’t know the difference and I can’t think of anything else to do with it

Considering how Russia is devolving under Putin, that flag may come back into fashion before long.

Maxine Weiss said...

There was supposed to be a Q&A Vlog every day. Althouse made a promise.

Perhaps the reality of daily facetime on camera turned out to be more daunting than anticipated.

Scars, blemishes, recovery...it all shows up on one's complexion. I can tell someone's whole life story by observing the indentations, crevices, demarcations....of the face.

A little too much exposure for Althouse, I suppose.

Video can be so unkind, sometimes.

vet66 said...

It was probably an anchor that fell overboard when the chain broke. The spinmeisters at the politburo decided to make it a marker to stave off criticism that most of their boats aren't capable of cruising that far from the Rodina!

Cedarford said...

It's actually pretty serious business. If Russia gets it's claim to the Lomonosov Ridge validated when the matter is to be decided in 2009, it owns the North Pole and about half of the Arctic Sea.

Canada and Denmark are planning vigorous disputes, based on their claims that the ridge is connected to both Canada and Greenland.

The stakes are who owns the Northwest Passage as global warming opens up the North, and who owns the oil, gas, and mineral riches - which are estimated to be 1/4 of the world's undiscovered oil and gas deposits.

Russia also claims another ridge coming off Alaska and Siberia as all it's own.

A good NY Times article from 2005:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/1010-07.htm

Apparantly, the US was blocked from filing claims or research funding by right wingnut Senators (according to the ever-objective NY Times) who hate that a UN group will judge competing claims.

But for whatever reason, the US is standing around with it's thumb up it's ass - distracted by "evildoers", "noble Iraqis", and "hard-working immigrants who only want to do the jobs Americans refuse to do." It cut it's Acrtic exploration and mapping funds back in 2002 from the Navy budget to better fund the Global War on Terror and Iraq Liberation..

Which may cost us an oil and mineral rich area the size of California to Russia...

It would be funny if one of them casts a net while there, hauls up the Russian flag and sells it on ebay.

Not if Russia wins it's claims. Then the only people to be able to venture to the N Pole or much of the rest of the Arctic will be by Russian permission. (Russia has a huge continental shelf going out in the Arctic so they will get control of about 1/3rd of it anyways.

Fortunately, Canada and Denmark are active and engaged against Russia's claims, but are also interested in a settlement between the 3 countries that -ooops- deals the US that refuses to work with the UN...out.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Canada and Denmark are planning vigorous disputes, based on their claims that the ridge is connected to both Canada and Greenland.

To paraphrase Stalin: How many divisions do they have?

Somehow I think Putin will be unimpressed at any vigorous disputes by the Danes or Canucks.

Troy said...

Which submarine and how many submariners did they leave down there with the flag?

Revenant said...

Somehow I think Putin will be unimpressed at any vigorous disputes by the Danes or Canucks.

There's an international body that arbitrates these things. Russia filed a claim on a bunch of the Artic with them, and Canada and, I think, Norway (not Denmark) did the same. If the ruling goes in favor of either of the latter two, or against all three, then Russia's not going to be able to take the territory. They're not going to start a shooting war with NATO.

"How many divisions do they have"? Well, Canada hasn't got many, but they HAVE got us. And even though they're sucky allies these days, we'd still rather support them than support Russia.

Drew W said...

I love the image of Russians boldly planting their flag at the bottom of the sea. Presumably, Aquaman will be filing an official grievance with the U.N. over this.

I don’t think anybody should remove the underwater flag. I don’t know why, but I think somebody should install, right next to it, a life-size fish-tank deep-sea diver with bubbles coming out of his helmet.

amba said...

They're trying to one-up the flag and footprint on the moon.

Theo Boehm said...

But for whatever reason, the US is standing around with it's thumb up it's ass -

Well, the U.S. Government isn't completely dysfunctional...

The IRS hasn't forgotten about me, and OSHA inspectors still show up regularly.

The U.S. may be out of oil and our industrial base evaporating, but we do have fatasses in mu-mu's shopping at Wal-Mart.

Definitely a resource for the 21st century.

And the guy upthread who writes Dr. Bronner's labels should be zapped.

Hoosier Daddy said...

If the ruling goes in favor of either of the latter two, or against all three, then Russia's not going to be able to take the territory.

Not legally. Then again, the way things are changing there under Putin, I would not put it past him to try.

They're not going to start a shooting war with NATO.

I don't think they need to. For some reason I don't see the Danes or Canadians showing up for a war.

Again my point was not them actually going to war over it. The threat is enough, hence the quote.

But its all conjecture.

Ann Althouse said...

"Dr. Bronner's labels"

LOL.

Jennifer said...

I keep reading this as Russia Plants Underwear Flag at North Pole.

Parker Smith said...

The Ironman movie is coming out next year.

The undersea flag is titanium.

Ironman's Soviet enemy was - Titanium Man!

The flag was planted by submarine - and Ironman's sometime ally is Namor, Prince of Atlantis - the Submariner!

It's all connected, somehow.

And yes, I do have the shiny side out, thank you very much.

Tim Sisk said...

I thought Superman owned the North Pole. Isn't that where the Fortress of Solitude is located?

Revenant said...

"They're not going to start a shooting war with NATO/"

I don't think they need to. For some reason I don't see the Danes or Canadians showing up for a war.

You're missing the point. If international law rules for Canada or against Russia, Canada is going to be sending ships and oil crews into that area to extract the oil.

At which point Russia can either:

(a): Let them do it (in which case who cares if they claim sovereignty, because they aren't enforcing it, or

(b): Use military force to prevent it, in which case Canada will (quite rightly) invoke the NATO treaty, after which WE will send military forces to the area.

Canada doesn't have to attack Russia. All they have to do is wait for Russia to try something on THEM. Then Russia gets to deal with all of the NATO powers -- who, while entirely willing to suck up to Islamic dictatorships, do not now and never have liked the Russians.