May 8, 2007

"Ambitious and cold-blooded -- but somewhat bungling."

The foiled Fort Dix attack.

45 comments:

AntonK said...

"...somewhat bungling." Of course, this is an expected refrain from the MSM. It fits their worldview that there really is nothing to worry about, most terrorists are bunglers, and that Bushitler and his cronies simply want to create a fascist state with all their so-called security measures (Patriot Act, etc...).

Problem: if these Fort Dix bunglers hadn't been nabbed, and had machine-gunned a bunch of soldiers and citizens, then they wouldn't be bunglers. Just like if we'd nailed those silly hijackers with their amateurish box-cutters, there wouldn't have been a 9/11.

Cedarford said...

Words of two of the suspects - one an illegal alien, one a "refugee from persecution " allowed into America:

It doesn't matter to me whether I get locked up, arrested or get taken away," a suspect identified as Serdar Tatar said in another recorded conversation. "Or I die, it doesn't matter. I'm doing it in the name of Allah."
Another suspect, Eljvir Duka, was recorded saying: "In the end, when it comes to defending your religion, when someone is trying attacks your religion, your way of life, then you go jihad."


We still have not been able to break the log-jam between secirity minded people and the "enemy-rights" defenders in America over 5 years after 9/11. We are divided and confused about what to do with those foreign enemy or enemy citizens hewing to a violent foreign-led ideology that seeks to kill us and seeks America and the West's destruction so the Ummah of Believers can achieve dominion over all peoples of the Earth.

The Islamoid enemy is here, hiding with peaceful or ambivalent Muslims. Still plotting, still coming up with plot after plot detected or which goes undetected and carnage results...

I think our laws and criminal justice system are inadequate to the task of allowing the American people to prevail against them.

I think Bush-hatred and anti-Americanism and enemy-rights loving is too strong right now to really fight the radical Islamoid menace. It will take another 9/11 scale attack or a Beslan massacre to root forces like the ACLU and Soros out of influence.

Thanks to Iraq, we know that at least for Arabs, nation building and secular democracy is rejected.

That leaves quarantine and expulsion before matters escalate to existential decisions about the option of mass destruction...

Methadras said...

Hmmm. Albanian illegal aliens. Albanian political refugees who just happen to be Muslims wanting to attack and kill soldiers in Fort Dix. Well, there you have it folks. I suppose it isn't just about the Mexicans wanting to mow down your lawns for the almighty dollar. It's about Albanian Muslims wanting to mow down our soldiers for their almighty Allah.

It might make a good Clancy novel and I have to wander if any of the loony, kooky lefties on here are willing to acknowledge that the war on terror isn't about Arabs exclusively.

Dewave said...

Congratulations to those responsible for stopping this planned attack.

It could have been really quite bloody.

Fen said...

Well, there you have it folks. I suppose it isn't just about the Mexicans wanting to mow down your lawns for the almighty dollar. It's about Albanian Muslims wanting to mow down our soldiers for their almighty Allah

Damn straight. I'm an vigorous defender of Bush's war on terror, but I have to take a timeout to bash him - incompetence, quagmire, delusional: an apt description of his immigration policy, and one reason why he lost the base last election. Get serious about border/port/visa control, or pull out Iraq. His reluctance to defend our borders is reckless and makes any policy re terror [Iraq] pointless.

paul a'barge said...

Fen +1 on Bush and immigration. However, note that despite the fact that 3 of the Islamist nimrods were illegal immigrants, 3 were legal immigrants.

I really, really wonder why we have ever allowed these Islamo-morons into our country.

Cedarford said...

Good point by AntonK - A deliberate meme the MSM always inserts into uncovered plots is "bungling" to minimize the threat.

Other memes are:

1. The notion that perfect intelligence so we know what each of the 1.2 billion Muslim minds on the planet is thinking at any given time (do I blow myself up for Allah with a pile of filthy infidels, or chase women? Maybe I'll do Jihad a month from now?) A sideshow is that after any successful attack by the Muslim enemy, journalists instantly proclaim scandal!!, and tell us that despite their love of Open Borders, hatred of the Patriot Act, defense of the privacy rights of "innocent Muslims" who have committed no crime....that "somebody should have known" about the killer's plans!

2. Any mistake in suspicions, though - is bigotry, Islamophobia, racism when authorities check out someone who turns out to be innocent or a largely "guilt-free" by technical limits of US criminal law, associate of terrorists.

3. The MSM will predictably wail about "innocent civilians" killed in a terrorist house where women and children - innocent by age and gender obviously - live in an IED-making factory with their terrorist husbands or uncles. Or when they are in a car that a bomber uses to rush a checkpoint and everyone in the car is killed. Then it is printed or broadcast as Marines in stopping a car bomber, killed 4 innocent civilians riding with him, including 2 young girls and a helpless baby cut down by the Marine's machineguns"

4. Explaining any attack as really the fault of politicians not having enough "government employee" heroes to "fully protect us all" - then of course they make the connection that of 300 million Americans, we are "helpless and stripped of all manpower" because 120 thousand happen to be in Iraq.

The MSM uses it for any situation.

We wouldn't have had the spinach problem if we had those people in Iraq looking at spinach instead!

Sanjayah would have gone further if troops wasted in Iraq had been there for Sanjayah to coach him, instead.

If troops weren't in Iraq, the other 300 million of us wouldn't have to sit around with our thumbs up our butts blaming the 120 thousand in the military for our failure to deal with various natural disasters we have every year.

5. Clueless journalists become "security experts" now saying we can keep "full, precious terrorist civil liberties" as long as every pound of cargo must be inspected by what appears to require on paper an Army of a million new Federal Employees with impressive polyester suits that will "keep us all absolutely safe".
Which as a clever question in the Democratic debate revealed, is negated by a solution so simple a Muslim Caveman could do it. Simply blow the cargo up before an inspector at NYC Harbor, SF Bay Harbor, Dulles Airport even touches it once it arrives in the Ground Zero vicinity.

Or factor in that the Muslim radicals will come up with bomb materials that foil the tens of billions put into bomb detector machinery.

Tim said...

It's all Bush's fault.

If only he signed the Kyoto Treaty, none of this would be happening.

hdhouse said...

so sayeth the usual band of idiots.

AJD said...

Um, has anyone heard of the presumption of innocence? I suppose that just for Democratic sissies! Well, them and Scooter Libby.

But really, the rush to convict around here is chilling.

Fen said...

And like clockwork, hdhouse trolls the thread with his usual projection. Get a therapist hd.

Although he makes much more sense if you simply consider him to be a parody of Left.

Fen said...

Um, has anyone heard of the presumption of innocence?

Ah hell, we forgot to read them their Miranda. Cut em loose feds, the Democrats are back in charge.

Revenant said...

Um, has anyone heard of the presumption of innocence?

The presumption of innocence is a legal standard, not a societal one. Legally the men are entitled to a fair trial and may not be punished until a jury is convinced of their guilt. Personally, however, anti-Americanism is so rampant in the Islamic world that I'm inclined to consider any Muslim foreigner to be guilty until proven innocent.

Eli Blake said...

SAME STORY TWICE IN A WEEK!

see

Alabama militia busted for plot to machine gun Mexicans

Oh.

Stories about a foiled plot by terrorists to machine gun people only get wall to wall press coverage if the victims were supposed to be Americans and the terrorist machine gunners illegal aliens. If the reverse is true, well it's funny how no one gives a darn.

The Drill SGT said...

Reading an article by Fred Thompson today, I was struck at how much is still the same. The first foreign war the US fought in was against the Barbary Pirates 1801-1805. Here is a quote from Wiki:

In 1786, Thomas Jefferson, then the ambassador to France, and John Adams, then the ambassador to Britain, met in London with Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja, the ambassador to Britain from Tripoli. The Americans asked Adja why his government was hostile to American ships, even though there had been no provocation. The ambassador's response was reported to the Continental Congress:

That it was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman [Muslim] who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise.

Fen said...

Legally the men are entitled to a fair trial and may not be punished until a jury is convinced of their guilt.

If they are illegal aliens and illegal combatants, can't we just toss them into Gitmo until the war is over?

Too many jims said...

Fen said . . . I have to take a timeout to bash him - incompetence, quagmire, delusional: an apt description of his immigration policy

Should we diagnose you with BDS then? Or does that diagnosis only apply to people who are critical of Bush's economic policy or Iraq policy?

Tim said...

"Stories about a foiled plot by terrorists to machine gun people only get wall to wall press coverage if the victims were supposed to be Americans and the terrorist machine gunners illegal aliens. If the reverse is true, well it's funny how no one gives a darn."

Except, it seems, Fox News, which, your link aptly points out, actually ran the story. Also, you failed to note the report the plotters against Ft. Dix were doing so in the name of Allah. There is, of course, no such indication of your Alabama militia being so motivated. My own guess is that they weren't, and that is probably at least one reason for the "wall to wall press coverage."

So, how does this affect your "support our troops, bring them home" mantra? It seems our troops might be at risk here too.

Fen said...

Should we diagnose you with BDS then? Or does that diagnosis only apply to people who are critical of Bush's economic policy or Iraq policy?

That diagnosis only applies to those who criticize Bush in bad faith.

Revenant said...

Stories about a foiled plot by terrorists to machine gun people only get wall to wall press coverage if the victims were supposed to be Americans and the terrorist machine gunners illegal aliens. If the reverse is true, well it's funny how no one gives a darn.

I'm not sure why you find it so odd that Americans are bothered by bad things happening to Americans and less bothered by bad things happening to foreign criminals. Do you also find it funny that burglars who shoot homeowners are viewed more harshly than homeowners who shoot burglars?

tjl said...

"like clockwork, hdhouse trolls the thread with his usual projection."

Give hdhouse a break. His comments on the Imus frenzy were notable for lucidity and common sense.
It's only when the topic is related to Islamic terror that his BDS shows.

Too many jims said...

That diagnosis only applies to those who criticize Bush in bad faith.

That memo needs to make the rounds to those who are making the diagnosis.

Patrick said...

His comments on the Imus frenzy were notable for lucidity and common sense.
Well, for the most part. He did break down and lash outin a wild frenzy of entirely mystifying name calling.

Eli Blake said...

tim:

No, the Alabama militia were apparently motivated by hatred of Mexicans.

And yes, you are right that FOX news is the only outfit that covered it at all. But don't come back later and argue that the media has an anti-American, pro-Islamic terrorist bias, because the relative level of coverage of the two (very similar) stories shows that it just ain't so.

And yes, this has absolutely nothing to do with my opinion that we should bring the troops home from Iraq. In Iraq they are accomplishing nothing useful, feeding the insurgency as much as fighting it. Iraq is a colossal and endless waste of lives and money (already over $1300 per man, woman and child in the U.S. and all borrowed against the future, when it will have to be paid back.) It's hard to see how staying there prevented the Ft. Dix attack, it was actually the astute work of a photo shop employee.

Eli Blake said...

Revenant:

I'm not sure why you find it so odd that Americans are bothered by bad things happening to Americans and less bothered by bad things happening to foreign criminals. Do you also find it funny that burglars who shoot homeowners are viewed more harshly than homeowners who shoot burglars?

Hardly the same thing. The Alabama plotters were planning to go out and shoot Mexicans whose only crime was existing in the U.S. illegally (which is by itself a misdemeanor, the same level of crime as littering) so hence not 'criminals.' Further, if a burglar is on your property you have the right to defend yourself and your family members. That isn't the same thing as deciding to go out and commit murder.

GeorgeH said...

And yes, this has absolutely nothing to do with my opinion that we should bring the troops home from Iraq. In Iraq they are accomplishing nothing useful, feeding the insurgency as much as fighting it. Iraq is a colossal and endless waste of lives and money (already over $1300 per man, woman and child in the U.S. and all borrowed against the future, when it will have to be paid back.) It's hard to see how staying there prevented the Ft. Dix attack, it was actually the astute work of a photo shop employee.

It didn't prevent this attack, but it's relocated thousands of other attacks from here to Iraq since the invasion. Iraq isn't supposed to be won. It's supposed to be a honey pit sucking in every angry IslamoFascist possible and distracting them from attacking us here. It's been remarkably successful.

Jennifer said...

AntonK "...somewhat bungling." Of course, this is an expected refrain from the MSM. It fits their worldview that there really is nothing to worry about, most terrorists are bunglers, and that Bushitler and his cronies simply want to create a fascist state with all their so-called security measures (Patriot Act, etc...).

I hear what you're saying, and generally agree.

But, these guys really were somewhat bungling. I don't even understand how they thought they would *get* on post. Maybe Ft. Bragg is different, but I (who have the proper post registration markings on my car) can't even get on post without being searched if I forget my military ID.

And the rent-a-cops at the gate (who do the searching) *are* armed. How well they're trained, I have no idea...

And, there's usually only one gate on post that allows non-military ID holders through. So, at the very least they'd be bottlenecked.

Sure, as a pizza delivery guy, he *had* a pass to get on post without being searched, but he couldn't very well bring his buddies along.

And I suppose, they could have blown through the gate and seen how far they could get. But frankly I could think of a lot of ways they could far more easily get access to far more soldiers than trying to do it by going on post.

Of course, maybe I just prefer to believe it's a long shot.

hdhouse said...

i don't think calling Fen a fool and an idiot is name calling at all. I think it is a highly accurate appraisal of the situation such as it is.

and the usual band of idiots continues forth...give this story about 2 days and let's revisit it.

Cedarford said...

Eli Blake - Iraq is a colossal and endless waste of lives and money (already over $1300 per man, woman and child in the U.S. and all borrowed against the future, when it will have to be paid back.) It's hard to see how staying there prevented the Ft. Dix attack

And it's hard to see how you opining here, or working in your "Blake" life, or your personal "Blake" interests could have prevented the Ft Dix attack, so everything you do, every sacrifice you make in "Blake-life" must be a mistake.

Remember, because 120,000 are tied up in Iraq, killing foreign terrorists to the toll of 35.000 or so plus 50,000 Iraqi evildoers and any family around them. Setting up a staging point to not only uncover the Libyan nuke program, but AQ Khan nuclear bomb network - and setting up to deny the Muslim fanatics of Iran nukes from major bases in Iraq....

And, if the accusation that 1/2400th of the population must deal with Kansas tornados, end the spinach threat, and assume police duties to have GIs act as law enforcement in infiltrating terroristic Muslims inside the USA? What does that say about the rest of us?

I actually have heartfelt agreement that if 120,000 combat troops were allowed to militarily engage targets here in America rather than Iraq, in a war setting without bothering with laws irrelevant on a battlefield, that their killing would be far more productive and entertaining.

Imagine the Rangers storming the ACLU headquarters in NYC and DC with MK-19 grenade launchers and picking off the the surviving ACLU types in their synogogues, mosques, academia, Lefty NGOs. Checking ammo after that - and going for the NYTimes and CBS buildings.

Then thrill to video footage of the F-18s of the 120K recalled from Iraq hunting down and splashing George Soros, Kenneth Roth's, Kerry's, and Hollywood glitterati's Gulfstream jets in Mid-Atlantic as they try to flee to Davos or San Francisco.

Robert said...

What the fuck?

Daryl said...

There is a very good reason the only Muslims who attack America/attempt to attack America are bozos.

And that reason is: there is a top-down order not to carry out small attacks in America.

Listen to what Muslim students in American schools say:

So just keep on doing what we’re doing. Our weapon, our jihad, our way of struggling in this country is with our tongues. We speak out, and we deflate their morale, and this is the best we can do right now. And our brothers and sisters on the other side of the world, they’re handling business in their own way. May Allah give them strength

I wish the left, which always talks about the need to listen, was willing to listen to what Muslims are actually saying, instead of reflexively accusing anyone of racism for pointing out the disloyal, hateful things American Muslims are saying openly.

Radical Muslims think if they hit us again it will not weaken our resolve. It will only make us angrier, and make us fight even harder for Iraq. And they're right.

They think if they hit targets in England, it will sap the British will to fight. It will cause them to reject Blair, pull their forces out of Afghanistan and Iraq, and otherwise cave in. That's why they've carried out attacks in England. And they're right. It is having the intended effect.

We haven't been hit again in America because Muslims are afraid of us. They know we're crazy enough to invade Iraq. They know not to mess with us. It's only a few mentally ill or incompetent amateur bumblers who shoot one or two people, run over a half-dozen with their SUV, snipe a dozen people from an old car, or plan for a shooting raid on Fort Dix as a quick way into Heaven.

They're boobs and rejects. Dangerous, but not on the scale of 9/11.

That is why we haven't been attacked again in a big way. Because they are afraid to attack us. If we surrender in Iraq, and retreat, and leave our brave allies to be slaughtered, they will know they can carry out attacks on our soil.

Revenant said...

Hardly the same thing. The Alabama plotters were planning to go out and shoot Mexicans whose only crime was existing in the U.S. illegally (which is by itself a misdemeanor, the same level of crime as littering) so hence not 'criminals.'

First of all, you have absolutely no supporting evidence for your claim that the criminals in question were guilty of only the one crime. Did they have jobs? Fake IDs? Did they neglect to pay their income taxes? Did they drive without insurance? All of these things are also crimes. On top of that, of course, the simple act of staying employed and undetected means engaging in a variety of criminal conspiracies.

Secondly, the word criminal means "a person guilty of a crime", not "a person guilty of a crime leftists think is important". So yes, the people in question were criminals.

Thirdly, just because the government refuses to treat illegal immigration seriously doesn't mean that the offense isn't serious. Illegal immigration is a far more serious crime, in most Americans' opinion, than jaywalking is. Congress is far behind the curve on this one.

Further, if a burglar is on your property you have the right to defend yourself and your family members. That isn't the same thing as deciding to go out and commit murder.

I didn't say the people were right to plan murder, I was just explaining why people don't much care. Its like prison rape -- when people who hurt ordinary Americans end up suffering at the hands of other criminals, the average person has a hard time really caring.

Revenant said...

Iraq is a colossal and endless waste of lives and money (already over $1300 per man, woman and child in the U.S. and all borrowed against the future, when it will have to be paid back.

Thanks to our progressive tax system, the median American's share of the Iraqi war debt is about $80. "The rich" are the ones who get stuck with the bill, just like they get stuck with ALL the government's bills.

But if you'd like to support a flat tax and/or tax cuts for the rich, hey, I'm all for it.

Sloanasaurus said...

I heard that the FBI is crediting a video store worker with fingering the terrorists. I HOPE this is some sort of cover story for the real informant. One of the mob-like tactics the terrorists and organizations like C AIR use is to chill Americans from doing anything about terrorism. One example is C AIR going after the other passengers on the imam flight in Minneapolis. Killing the video store guy would achieve this same goal.

Sloanasaurus said...

Thanks to our progressive tax system, the median American's share of the Iraqi war debt is about $80. "The rich" are the ones who get stuck with the bill, just like they get stuck with ALL the government's bills.

Excellent point Rev. However you forget that liberals generally mistrust the idea of private property and therefore believe that the property owned by the rich is actually owned collectively. It's therefore the rich taking from the people, not the people taking from the rich. Thus, taxing the rich more is only giving those not rich their fair share.

PatCA said...

Daryl,
I have to agree with you. Why would AQ order little pointless attacks that might wake us up when they are succeeding so well on the propaganda and "civil rights" arena?

Jennifer, they would get on base they same way they got into the US Tehran embassy: overpower guards who haven't had time to call their COs and lawyers to see if the ROE allow them to shoot back.

"You love life, we love death...and lawsuits and any other way we can think of to mau-mau the flack catchers."

hdhouse said...

Sloanasaurus said...
Thanks to our progressive tax system, the median American's share of the Iraqi war debt is about $80. "The rich" are the ones who get stuck with the bill, just like they get stuck with ALL the government's bills."

You are so stupid as to make the gods weep. do the fuckin' math you idiot. 300,000,000 people at the very least 340 billion spent...if you start to add the defense department stuff into it and the other off budget items we are at 600 billion and counting.

now, asshole, divide 340 billion by 300 million and you get about 1133 PER PERSON and if you start talking real numbers, the 600 billion you are in the 2000/person range. ASSHOLE THATS PER PERSON.

honestly sloan...you are the dumbest shit on this planet.

Ann Althouse said...

uh, hd, you've misread his comment. Calm down and look at where he put the word "median."

Crimso said...

"so sayeth the usual band of idiots."

"and the usual band of idiots continues forth"

Sweet Jesus Lord, the irony is killing me...

hdhouse said...

yes Ann i read "median" when i read the sloan post. that dog doesn't hunt. this is pre-interest debt. it will only be address on an interest due basis for as far as the eye can see. sloan tries to disguise it by some sort of smoke and mirros pro-rata based on his interpretation of per capita tax payment distribution. the $40 he cites is merely pulled out of his ass.

sorry to get into a snit but i am so tired of this jerk just making it up and his dismissal of national debt as just a minor inconvenience.

Jennifer said...

PatCA Jennifer, they would get on base they same way they got into the US Tehran embassy: overpower guards who haven't had time to call their COs and lawyers to see if the ROE allow them to shoot back.

Possibly so, but unless they were planning on coming on post during PT, where did they think they would find massive numbers of soldiers milling about?

I still maintain that there would be lots of easier and more effective strategies.

Fen said...

hdhouse: I don't think calling Fen a fool and an idiot is name calling at all

If you're going to attack my intelligence, could you at least pass the insults along to Cyrus? It carries more weight when it comes from him. Thanks.

Revenant said...

honestly sloan...you are the dumbest shit on this planet.

The observation you're directing your ignorant ad hominems at was made by ME, not sloan. So I'd just like to start off by observing that it is amusing to see you go off on a rant about "idiots" and "dumb shits" when you failed basic reading comprehension.

Anyway, moving on...

now, asshole, divide 340 billion by 300 million and you get about 1133 PER PERSON and if you start talking real numbers, the 600 billion you are in the 2000/person range. ASSHOLE THATS PER PERSON.

Yes, HD, but the point you either ignored or weren't bright enough to understand is that our government's expenses aren't actually divided up equally among the population of the United States. Your "$600 billion" is going to be paid back via present and future income taxes -- so what we need to look at isn't all three hundred million Americans, but the ones who actually pay taxes.

Well, the richest 5% of the country pays half the income tax. So they're stuck with $300 billion -- about $20,000 per person. This is the group of people that Democrats are always trying to find new ways to fuck over.

The poorest 40% of the country pays no income tax (actually it on average receives a net "refund", but that's not relevant here). They're stuck with $0.00 of Iraqi war debt.

The middle income quintile -- the middle-middle class, if you will -- pays 4.7% of income tax, which puts its average share of the Iraqi debt at $470 per person. However, since the vast majority of that is actually paid by the upper end of the quintile, the people in the very middle of the middle -- i.e., the most middle class people out there -- get stuck with less than a c-note each.

Oh, and one more thing: the bottom two quintiles -- i.e., the freeloaders -- overwhelmingly vote for Democrats. The top quintile -- the one carrying 86% of the Iraq war costs -- overwhelmingly vote for Republicans. So I'll listen to leftists whine about the government's spending habits when you fucking leeches and deadbeats start actually PAYING for something. So long as the government is spending MY money I expect you to shut the fuck up about what it gets spent on.

hdhouse said...

ok revenant. have it your way. you ARE the dumbest shit in the universe.....feel better?

Revenant said...

ok revenant. have it your way. you ARE the dumbest shit in the universe.....feel better?

Wow -- I haven't seen HD get this bitchy since the last time someone said Howard Stern was better than Imus. :)