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"Mr Hamm is in fair condition after having his lips stitched back together."And I expect the protests by the enviro-radicals against killing the lions will soon begin.When will we accept we cannot "live in harmony" with large, wild predators?
Actually, I read the story that a good wife can save your ass in ways you never imagined. I thank God for mine. (Good wife that is, although I also thank Him for my ass.)Trey
The pen bent when she tried to jam it down the lion's eye socket.That is power: the strength and power of flesh. What is a pen compared to the hand that wields it? Look at the strength of your body, the desire in your heart. I give you this ...such a waste. Contemplate this on the tree of woe.
"The pen is mightier than the mountain lion."Actually, from the article, the mountain lion survived the encounter while the pen did not. The lion's eye was strong enough to bend the pen!I'm picturing that scene in the new Superman movie where the bullet bounced of Supe's eyeball. Maybe this mountain lion is also from the planet Krypton.
Clearly, we need to regulate pens.
More on the killing of the lions:"The park ... was closed after the incident and wardens tracked down and killed a pair of lions near the trail where the attack happened...The dead cougars are undergoing tests to determine if either was responsible for the mauling."Ugh. The State of California, in infinitesimal wisdom, prohibits the possesion of firearms within state parks other than in unloaded, cased condition within your vehicle or camper. Thus, instead of our hikers being able to adequately protect themselves, if they so choose, instead we get "official" shooters killing any passing mountain lion on the chance it may be the one responsible. Bah!
Clearly, her husband should have been armed with an assault pen, like the one the Joker used in the first Batman movie.
This in .41 or .44 Mag would have been much more effective. Helps with 2 legged predators as well.
I don't want to sound too much like Glenn Reynolds, but isn't this an argument for carrying something more formidable than a pen when you go hiking?
Obviously, a Sharpie.Cheers,Victoria
The pen bent when she tried to jam it down the lion's eye socket.This is like an Alan Funt meets Three Stooges incident."Why, I'll moider you! Nyaaah! Ooh!"Excellent bit that the lady survived, but without reading the caption, I thought, jeez, that lady doesn't look good. She's even missing her breasts! Then I realised it was her hubby. God bless.Cheers,Victoria
Hey Jenny Slater. Hey Jenny Slater. Hey Jenny Slater.
Hi Ken. Thanks for the pen. Have you seen Debi? [after shooting a guy three times and bashing his head in with a skillet] Debi, I'm in love with you! And I know we can make this relationship work.
Yes, we have bears and cougars too, though the cougars never come out of the mountains. The bears do, right onto your back porch to snack out of your bird feeder. Or your pets.
The left believes that we can lie down with the lion right now like a bunch of little lambs and everything is going to be hunky dory. Mountain lion attacks on the east coast have not yet taken place, but there have been sightings all up and down the Appalachians from Maine to Georgia. The only absolutely confirmed sighting in New York State was taken by a bank video machine just outside of Plattsburg (near Canadian border), but people who see them don't reach for their cameras. Almost everyone who's lived in the Catskills their whole lives has seen at least one.Californians are utopian. Let them lie down with the lions and see what happens. Perhaps they'll move to the center politically after being mauled two dozen times."We won't be fooled again!"
Clearly, it's a quagmire.We must withdraw the armed wardens and begin negotiations with the mountain lions or their representatives.Why do those nice kitties hate us?
"The dead cougars are undergoing tests to determine if either was responsible for the mauling."And if they are "found innocent" by the Park, the Rangers will be prosecuted and send to jail for 10 years."We won't be fooled again!" One would think, but it is not so, as this disemboweled biker might attest, had he lived.http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/09/national/main592433.shtml
Hey let's ban everything that hurts or kills people!Motorcycles, alcohol, guns, oh my!We should make driving illegal because how many accidents kill people every year? Skydiving and mountain climbing and most every other extreme sport should be banned because by golly they kill people. Cities are full of people dying, so we should ban all cities too. Many, many people die of sexually transmitted diseases every year so we should ban sex.Or think of it much the same way. Take precautions. It's part of life.
Californians are utopian. Let them lie down with the lions and see what happens. Perhaps they'll move to the center politically after being mauled two dozen times.Heh.I've heard of a Neo-Conservative being a liberal mugged by reality, so a California utopian must be a liberal mauled by a lion.Cheers,Victoria
Does a sharpie count as an assault pen? If so, they should be banned!"Pens don't blind cougars; cougars blind cougars" No, wait...."They can take my pen when they pry it from the eyesocket of the unfortunate cougar." or something like that
The husband had real presence of mind to tell his wife, while his head was in the jaws of death, that there was a pen in his pocket! I'm glad he's on the mend. Nice story ending for h. sapiens. Less nice for p. concolor.Would a gun have helped in this case? Would the wife shoot the cougar or the husband? It would take considerable training to overcome the adrenaline rush as the attack is happening.I have to add that people hiking alone in the wilderness are unlikely to be saved by a gun. Stealth predators like Mountain Lions don't give you warning, so unless you're walking with a loaded gun in your hand ready to shoot the first thing that comes your way, you're likely out of luck. Of course, IMO people who go out walking in the wilderness by themselves are dumb beyond belief, so maybe it's inevitable that Darwin P. MountainLion is gonna catch up with them.
Re: "Would a gun have helped in this case? "Just a guess, but the cougar probably would notice a bullet in the eye sooner than a Bic in the eye.
Re: "Would a gun have helped in this case?"Alternate answer: "Only if you fired it."
"Only if you fired it."I'm guessing you mightn't even have to hit the target. And the time it would have taken to remember the gun, spring to action, unholster it, unlock it -- probably not enough time for the cougar to kill the husband.
Pogo,"Only if you fired it."Heh. Although actually, the S&W Model 29 that someone linked to weighs 2 1/2 pounds empty. I dare say that if you wrapped your fingers around the cylinder with the barrel sticking down, and used it to pound on the cougar's eye, it would be much more effective than a mere pen. CAUTION--DO NOT PERFORM THIS OPERATION WHILE THE GUN IS LOADED. (Hence the citation of the empty weight above.)
a variant of an old Army maintenance guideline comes to mind:If at first you don't succeed, ... get a bigger hammer (log in this case)
MM, I thought I wrote a reply to you earlier, but maybe I just dreamed that I did.Anyway, you seem to have a theme going that it takes a long time to bring a handgun into action. This is not really the case: with a decent holster, one or two seconds will do, or maybe three if you're slow. Five would be an eternity.(With the previously recommended S&W "Mountain Gun"--like practically all revolvers--there's no lock or safety or anything like that which could delay you.)I frequently carry a gun in the back pocket of my rucksack. It's not a specially-designed gun pack or anything, the little pouches inside the back flap pocket just happen to fit a typical handgun quite nicely. I can draw in four seconds; I've practiced and timed it.But of course, if you don't practice, then a gun is just a magic wand and may be no more effective than any other such device. The same applies if it's just dumped into the main part of your pack to slosh around with everything else in there...On the subject of training: even though most concealed-carry/personal defense classes don't really have a wilderness focus, the ones I've been involved with do place a big emphasis on situational awareness. This transfers to the woods just fine: if you're likely to meet cougars, you really should think ahead and plan a bit, not just be taken by surprise. And you should see what the US Geological Survey folks say about being prepared for brown bears in Alaska.
Oops. My attempt to navigate right to the exact section of the California code didn't work.OK, if you really care to see the cite, try going here which will take you to California Code of Regulations with Title 14. Natural Resources opened. You'll have to navigate yourself to Division 3, Chapter 1, S 4313...
Have the Californians arrested her for assaulting the mountain lion yet? Didn't she know she was violating the animal's rights?
I can draw in four seconds; I've practiced and timed it.And you really think that you would have four seconds between the time you saw a mountain lion and the time it would be on top of your hiking companion? Those things are wicked fast and hunt by stalking. You would have a fraction of a second. A firearm would be next to useless because of the risk of shooting your friend in addition to or instead of the cougar. Your best bet would be a good walking stick (one of those ski-pole like ones), knife or hatchet.Sheesh, you gun-nuts think a gun is the answer to every problem.
Freder--dude, the cougar attack the Hamms successfully fought off must have lasted much longer than 4 seconds. Now, the article doesn't give any time estimate, but just try pacing if off yourself: first she picks up a piece of windfall, hits the cougar with it, then digs the pen out of her husband's pocket, goes at the eye with it for a moment, then picks up the log again and starts hitting it again. There's no way that took less than 10 seconds, and probably lasted even longer than that.Also, your problems with reading comprehension are showing. I went out of my way to assert that a firearm wasn't right for all people in all situations, and you somehow got the exact opposite out of it.
Freder--dude, the cougar attack the Hamms successfully fought off must have lasted much longer than 4 seconds.And you are complaining about my reading comprehension? My point is that the cougar would be on top of your companion before you could get to your gun. Shooting a cougar that is mauling would be reckless in the extreme. It would be very hard to get a clear shot off and the bullet could easily end up in your friend. Better to club or stab the cougar.
"Shooting a cougar that is mauling would be reckless in the extreme."At contact range? I certainly don't think so, but I'll grant you (do I need to boldface this?) that if somebody can't, then a handgun is definitely not the weapon for them. Part of adequate training--and handguns aren't much use without training and continual practice--is knowing when to shoot and when not to. Your picture, of a person just standing back and "spraying" bullets hoping something useful comes if it, is no part of any reasonable self-defense model.At this point, you and I are just beating a dead cat, I suppose, and no doubt boring all the other passengers. So this should be my last word on this subject, unless somebody else wants to keep it rolling...
Freder wrote: "My point is that the cougar would be on top of your companion before you could get to your gun. Shooting a cougar that is mauling would be reckless in the extreme. It would be very hard to get a clear shot off and the bullet could easily end up in your friend. Better to club or stab the cougar."Ever shot a gun? They are loud. Cougars know that they are loud and run when they hear them. They are smart that way. Now if they would just learn to type.Trey
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