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"Can you believe there are men who see an obituary photo in the newpaper, find the dead woman pretty, and go dig up the body for a sexual encounter?"My answer BC (before computers): "WHAT???" (stares disbelievingly) My answer AD (after download):"Why yes, yes I can." (sighs wearily)
Totally bizarre. I like the factoid that they stopped first at Wal-Mart for condoms!When I read stories like this, I always wonder how the parents react. And what was going on in the family dynamic that pushed the twins in this direction.
WTF. I wouldn't be surprised if these two to pop up as serial killers in a few years.
Nothing shocks me anymore.
No, I don't believe it. Cops must have it wrong. You know like the Boulder DA Fuba.
Yes, why buy condoms?? They're worried that the corpse might have a lingering STD? Obviously they're not worried about getting her pregnant. If it's none of these things, then the purchase betrays a lingering fastidiousness that somehow doesn't comport with necrophilia.
"Yes, why buy condoms??"Aside from "traditional" STDs there might be (or one might fear that there might be) other diseases, bacteria or unhealthy conditions present as the body decomposes. Further, there is the possibility that they are using the condoms to limit the amount of evidence of the crime.
Well we now have a new definition for:Loser!
the purchase [of condoms] betrays a lingering fastidiousness that somehow doesn't comport with necrophilia.I dunno. Said fastidiousness only enhances its creepy Lecterian-ness.
They better be careful. A lot of times people publish very old pictures of the deceased in the obituaries. That hottie you dig up might actually have been eighty years old when she died. (The WAC uniform is a dead giveaway.)
I could've done without the name of the deceased. Why pile on extra to this family who just recently lost their daughter? Would this not be allowed to be kept secret under WI open records laws?
And for the record... having worked with law enforcement in some capacity for the last 12 years -- no surprise at all -- which is sad.
I always wonder how these wierdos find each other. The twins you can understand, but how did they find someone else with similar tastes?"We like having sex with dead women.""Really? Me too!"
Eddie, Eddie, Eddie Geinn'er had thy deeds been seenO! Pariah verily foul, uncleanLo! Always with women and n'er a teendid'st thou dance and preenwith lovely skin its silken sheenwearing buttocks plump n'er leanin the School of Ghoul thou be'th Dean-LDM
These sickos do not deserve to walk among us! Hollywood does not help when they come up with characters like Hannibal Lechter and now the rehash of the Black Dahlia murder in Hollywood.Reducing human pathology to a spectator sport dehumanizes us all and emboldens the wackos in our midst. Reminds me of Rome during its decline and the gladiator sports as entertainment for the masses.
Ann, yesterday you seemed to be criticizing sexual moralizers on campus, but today you become the moralizer. Is it the absence of the religious angle that makes this possible or does necrophilia trump pedophilia? I look forward to the photos of you joining the campus group with this additional issue?
I would have had a hard time believing there was one man, let alone three. Yeesh.Menlo Bob - Pedophelia what? Yesterday's moralizers were against homosexuality and sex outside of marriage.Personally, I would separate men who dig up dead bodies and rape them from even the flippin' mayor of the Capitol of Lesbianism.
Uh-oh. The Morman Protestors from yesterday may have a point. Our sexual appetites have gotten out of hand.
MenloBob;The only thing more perverse than necrophelia and pedophilia will be the ridiculously light sentences handed out to the perps who engage in these sick acts.It is bad enough to not be surprised by the foul deeds of the lowest among us. It is far worse to not be sickened by these same deeds!
Fenrisulven has a point. Without the prohibitions to appetite enforced by religion, where does the moral guidance come from to hold these men to be pariahs?It is a slippery slope, once rules are discarded one after the other, and yet still we wonder how we got here. That is, on what basis do we apply any set of rules at all, even against this kind of grotesquery?And I am quite aware that this behavior is not new. But what is new is that the behavior seems to shock so few people.
So make up your mind, Madison. What is it? Are you the Capital of Lesbianism? Or the Necropolis of Necrophilia? Ps. How do you know the two guys aren't zombies who merely thought they were out on a date? I'd be afraid. Very afraid.
I'm outraged, but Oprah says we shouldn't judge.
Jeff, while I am a religious person, I have read quite persuasive arguments by many people that convince me morality is alive and well among non-religious people. You state it's surprising this behavior offends so few, and I'm wondering what you base that on. I'd be much more surprised if the reaction to it were anything but shock amongst most people. In any case, it stretches credibility to say that few are shocked, unless you've done some kind of quick survey.
"When I read stories like this, I always wonder how the parents react. And what was going on in the family dynamic that pushed the twins in this direction."And I always think, "These guys willingly and freely chose evil."
Cremation sounds good about now.
Ann asked: "Can you believe there are men who see an obituary photo in the newpaper, find the dead woman pretty, and go dig up the body for a sexual encounter?"Not readily, no.Besides, according to the article, the sex accusation came from Radke after he got fingered by Grunke and after he got pinched by the cops.Ouch!Seriously, though. From the article alone, I simply don’t believe it.Now, why Radke thought it exculpating to accuse a co-conspirater of attempted necrophilia, . . . , well, you’ve got me there.
Let me point out to those who would rename Madison Necropolis that this deed took place near Cassville. That's over on the Mississippi River. Cassville's most famous export was probably Sam Okey. Having taken the ferry to Cassville from Iowa, I can report that there is very little there.
Heh. Pogo and I are thinking of the same C.S. Lewis quote.
Sippican, between this and the mouse comment, are you trying to gross me back to the stoneage today???
I can't believe there was one man who'd do such a disgusting thing, let alone three. Yuck.
From the point of view of a 10-year-old boy, necrophilia is no more gross than the "normal" kind of sex. You can get used to anything.Furthermore, the black widow mates then kills the father of her children and the praying mantis starts eating her mate before orgasm, head first.
In the book "Apocalypse Culture" (published by Feral House Press, which also did the Ed Wood biography) one of the chapters dealt with a young woman who worked as a mortician who was eventually found to be having, when some corpse took her fancy, sex with the dead.How she managed this exactly I have never dwelt on overmuch.
From Sippican, the 10-year-old boy perspective is funny--gross, but funny. From Jim, I dunno why, but I just get the creeps.
Am I the only one left wondering how attractive this lady was that 3 people would conspire to exume her body for sexual gratification?(I'm sure there's some journalistic standard against showing her picture alongside the story....and it certainly wouldn't make things any easier on the family.)Tom Petty danced with a corpse in a music video about a decade ago....but at least she looked like a young Kim Basinger. (For reference, it's the same song he's suing the Chili Peppers over now.)
Elizabeth, you're probably right about the 'shock' being yet present. I was basing my take on the few here who said 'no', and having over years simply gleaned that nothing seems to shock people much anymore.I pick up from old books and magazines that what really shocked people back in the 1850s compared to 1900 to 1950 to now has evolved a hundred-fold. We have more freedom and few (if any) taboos. And it begs the question: with this rate of change, what taboos will be broken next? And will we notice it? And then what?As for the Smoking Gun mugshots. Yipe! Sorta Deliverance material, one of 'em leastways. One grocery store bagger, who just dropped out of community college, too. But why was Emo Philips there?
"let's go out for a cold one" OMG! ROR! ROR!
Puts the lie to Andrew Marvell: But at my back I always hear Time's winged chariot hurrying near; And yonder all before us lie Deserts of vast eternity. Thy beauty shall no more be found, Nor, in thy marble vault, shall sound My echoing song; then worms shall try That long preserv'd virginity, And your quaint honour turn to dust, And into ashes all my lust. The grave's a fine and private place, But none I think do there embrace.
Let's be adults about this: once freewheeling notions of human sexuality percolate down to the general population, this kind of thing should come as no surprise. After all, the premise of the sexual revolution is that, absent issues of consent, the only limit on the form and expression of human sexuality is the human imagination. Any notion that something like nature places limits to expressions of sexualilty is opressive and should be relegated to the dark ages. This kind of behavior is just a cost of open-ended sexual freedom.
The eyes on those twins are a little too far-apart...
The Sick Sense... as played by the Grunke twinsCole Sear: I screw dead people.Malcolm Crowe: In your dreams?[Cole shakes his head no]Malcolm Crowe: While you're awake?[Cole nods]Malcolm Crowe: Dead people like, in graves? In coffins?..................................Malcolm Crowe: How often do you screw them?Cole Sear: All the time. They're everywhere.
Shemp, Moe, and Emo! Pogo, you should write up your 200 years of slippery taboos study; I'd love to read it. I just saw a headline--I didn't follow it down to the text--that Google is going to offer a search engine for 300 years of news stories. How cool is that?While we're mining the past for paens to love for the dead:I am stretched on your graveand will lie there foreverif your hands were in mineI'd be sure we'd not severmy apple tree my brightnessit's time we were togetherfor I smell of the earthand am worn by the weatherwhen my family thinksthat I'm safe in my bedfrom night until morningI am streteched at your headcalling out to the airwith tears hot and wildmy grief for the girlthat I loved as a childdo you rememberthe night we were lostin the shade of the blackthornand the chill of the frostthanks be to Jesuswe did what was rightand your maiden head stillis your pillar of lightthe priests and the friarsapproach me in dreadbecause I still love youmy love and you're deadI still would be your shelterthrough rain and through stormand with you in your cold graveI cannot sleep warm
Oh. Dear. Lord.Exactly how is sex with an unresponsive, cold partner supposed to be exciting? And no, I'm not trying to provide an opening for bad date jokes, I'm serious. How... I don't know... deprived do you have to be to consider sex with a something that doesn't react at all to what you're doing be something desireable? Sex is as much about the reaction of the partner as it is about yourself; it's interaction. Do these guys dance with lampposts? Talk with walls? I mean, c'mon!!
Elizabeth,I'll call my study To Hell In A Handbasket: 200 Years of Moral DeclineI wonder if there's some sort of grant, like from the Gnarly Old Grampas Foundation. Like the Ford Foundation, but, starboard.
AlaskaJack: "Let's be adults about this: once freewheeling notions of human sexuality percolate down to the general population, this kind of thing should come as no surprise. After all, the premise of the sexual revolution is that, absent issues of consent, the only limit on the form and expression of human sexuality is the human imagination. Any notion that something like nature places limits to expressions of sexualilty is opressive and should be relegated to the dark ages. This kind of behavior is just a cost of open-ended sexual freedom."No, this is about some neurologically-impaired-looking persons who allegedly tried to violate a corpse. I thought it was funny when Santorum equated bestiality with consensual human sex, but this new slippery slope argument is a laugh riot. Gay sex and unmarried couples lead to NECROPHILIA! That's our kooky theocons!The funniest part about this is that some people seem to think depravity was invented sometime around 1966. Read the nineteenth century book "Psychopathia Sexualis" for a cornucopia of case studies of amusing and horrifying perversions from way before anyone ever burned a bra.And I can't believe we've had a necrophilia post without someone mentioning one of the great pieces of poetry in the genre:For the moon never beams without bringing me dreamsOf the beautiful Annabel Lee;And the stars never rise but I see the bright eyesOf the beautiful Annabel Lee;And so, all the night-tide, I lie down by the sideOf my darling, my darling, my life and my bride,In her sepulchre there by the sea--In her tomb by the side of the sea.
Re: "some people seem to think depravity was invented sometime around 1966"Not really, no. Rather that religion has been the only even partially successful mechanism to enforce certain moral behaviors and proscribe others.And it's not unreasonable to wonder if some easily observable things (like the decline in civil behavior, the rise of teen murders) aren't evidence of a general decay in social order. That is, does the broken windows theory apply to human behavior?You can joke about that, to be sure. It was certainly held up to mockery in the 60s, for example. But one ought to consider such things, unless you believe that it simply doesn't matter what we teach or do to kids, or expect from each other in public, as everything comes out the same.But that would be to counsel ignorance.
Speaking of the history of necrophilia and the art it has inspired, don't forget the traditional Irish poem "I am Stretched on Your Grave." Its origins are lost in antiquity, but it was recently popularized in lovely rendition sung by Sinead O'Connor.I Am Stretched on Your GraveI am stretched on your grave and will lie there forever,If your hands were in mine, I'd be sure they'd not sever,My appletree, my brightness 'tis time we were together,For I smell of the earth and am worn by the weather.When my family thinks that I'm safe in my bed,From night until morning I am stretched at your head.Calling out to the air with tears hot and wild,My grief for the girl that I loved as a child.Do you remember the night we were lostIn the shade of the blackthorn and the chill of the frost.Thanks be to Jesus we did what was rightAnd your maidenhead still is your Pillar of Light.The priests and the friars approach me in dread,Because I still love you, my love, and your dead.And still would be your shelter through rain and through stormFor with you in the cold ground I cannot sleep warm.I am stretched on your grave and will lie there forever,If your hands were in mine, I'd be sure they'd not sever,My appletree, my brightness 'tis time we were together,For I smell of the earth and am worn by the weather.
"And it's not unreasonable to wonder if some easily observable things (like the decline in civil behavior, the rise of teen murders) aren't evidence of a general decay in social order. That is, does the broken windows theory apply to human behavior?"I think this "decay" has a lot to do with the size of the population. There are simply a lot more people around today. And we communicate the bad things more easily than we used to. I rather suspect that, on the average, people are actually less coarse and less violent than they were during times of greater religious influence on the population, such as the European middle ages. A couple hundred years ago these guys would have been hanging from the gallows in their rural village by now, and those of us in other villages would never have heard about it, except perhaps through a bawdy ballad ten years later.
...this is about some neurologically-impaired-looking persons...Not to be obtuse, Palladian, but what does this mean?
Re "I Am Stretched on Your Grave": Thanks, Jack. That was really beautiful. It made me cry.
Jeremy, it was my clumsy way of saying that they looked neurologically impaired, perhaps as a result of some genetic defect. Sort of like the guys in "Deliverance", mentioned earlier.
Wow! Palladian read my post and saw a discussion of gay sex and unmarried couples. Dyslexia?"The lady protests too much, methinks."
Sippican, call me Ms. Cellophane.But with two recommendations, let all take note of a really great song. I play it in my Intro to Poetry class when we get to ballads. I love Sinead's version especially for her use of rhytem, but Dead Can Dance's is more grim and moving. I love a good baritone.
That's "rhythm," dagnabbit. My usual habit is not to correct casual email or blog posts. It's a judgment call, and probably a bad one since I type poorly.
One more thing, for those who might care: I think I'll put both versions, Dead can Dance and Sinead, on my .... shiny, new Video iPod. Yes, indeed. I am a lucky woman, with someone who loves me and gives me iPods for presents. I cannot wait to annoy people at red lights with my volume cranked and my windows down. (The AC's broke, otherwise, I'd be more polite.)
Actually, Professor, if you'd asked me to guess which state it happened in, Wisconsin, home of Ed Gein, probably would have been my first guess.
Re: "A couple hundred years ago these guys would have been hanging from the gallows in their rural village by now, and those of us in other villages would never have heard about it, except perhaps through a bawdy ballad ten years later."And what's the bad part?
At least they practice safe sex. Actually, they may have been worried about contracting an STD from each other, since they would presumably come into contact with each other's semen in the corpse gang bang. If not, the question becomes: how long does herpes live on a dead body? It's particularly upsetting when you look at the pictures of these boys. Were they really THAT unable to get laid? They're not all that ugly. One of them could even be a little cute if you shaved his facial hair, changed his wardrobe and his hair style in the right way. Perhaps there is something special and appealing about a dead body, like the tightness rigor mortis provides.
I have an excellent footnote for my CV now; I appear as a character in the collected works of Sippican.
Christopher,I don't think the problem for any sexual predator or criminal is an inability to get laid. Even Ted Bundy was kind of cute, and certainly worked his charm to attract females. These guys may just be working out the worst-case form of needing to be in total control.
Dead bodies carry insects, specifically mites....which is probably why that guy got condoms first....it obviously wasnt his first time with a dead woman....If you sleep with dead bodies you can get mites, almost like getting crabs...Disgusting I know.. I actually heard a story about a girl who had gotten mites from sleeping with a guy whod been sleeping with dead bodies...I was almost sick!
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