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This is a sad story.Didn't Bob Barr do the same thing, just a couple of years ago? And these are the people who tell us that licensing people to use guns is the first step towards totalitariansim. Whatever.What has Cheney done RIGHT, exactly, in the past five years?
Reflexes got the better of meAnd what is to be must be.Every day the bucket goes to the well,But one day the bottom will drop out,Yes, one day the bottom will drop out.
I'd be very careful if I were W ... and _very_ polite.
It's a little sad, but the guy's going to be fine, so it's incredibly funny. I'm not sure if this would really be irony--except in Alanis Morissette's dictionary--but whatever form of humor this little incident falls under, it's a winner.
Shouldn't this be in the 2nd Amendment thread? One thing we do know for sure now is that Cheney's pacemaker is doing one hell of a job.
If Bush had been standing there instead of that poor man, this would be a major historical event. VPOTUS Attempts to Kill POTUS!
I think you should link to your shooting lawyers--twice--post.
Bob Geiger -- Dick Cheney’s Top 10 Excuses For Shooting Fellow HunterFrom the home office in blue-state New York, here’s Vice President Dick Cheney’s top 10 excuses for shooting fellow hunter Harry Whittington on Saturday:...9. Pushed over edge by Dixie Chicks and Streisand blasting on pick-up truck stereo...7. Thought he saw Michael Moore on other side of tree line...3. Whittington’s repeated ribbing that Bush is actually the “real president”...And the number one excuse given by Dick Cheney for almost blowing away hunting companion Harry Whittington…1. Because he’s a wartime vice president, damn itVia the divine Jane on the shores of firedoglake
Art: Sorry. I don't want to talk about that here.Ruth Anne: What post was that?
I feel sorry for Dick Cheney. He has long been a competent public official. He does his work out of the spotlight. It's never been clear to me why he is so ridculously hated by the Left.One thing I will say, though, almost every sitting vice president in my lifetime has been sort of ridiculed. That's the nature of the job, apparently. In its own weird way, the hatred Cheney receives is a compliment to the job he has done.I hope the man he shot ends up healthy, soon.
This is the Republican presidental candidate for 2008?Don't think I'd trust him not to accidently set off the "football", or whatever that thing the President carries around."Ooops, Sorry!"Peace, Maxine
Imagine if this had happened when Cheney and Rehnquist had gone hunting. Now that'd be a crazy story.
Professor Althouse: You remember the one where the clerk at Hilldale tried to impress you by making a bad lawyer joke. Shooting lawyers. Twice. Or some such. You talked about lawyer jokes in general and how no other profession is so gleefully maligned.But, of course, my memory might be off. Just getting over a 24 hour bug.
Here it is. http://althouse.blogspot.com/2005/10/you-meet-someone-and-first-thing-he.html
Maxine -- Cheney will not run for president in 2008, unless he is president then, perhaps. (No reason why he should be, but presidents do get assassinated). If Cheney does run, he is unlikely to get nominated. If he gets nominated, he is unlikely to win.
I wonder what would happen if I accidentally shot someone during a hunting accident. Was Cheney treated differently than I would expect to be? If so, why? It's nice he had 24 hours to get his story straight before reporting to the media. Lucky him.
And I love this: "It was just one of those things that unfortunately happens quite often when hunting," said Kathryn Garcia, who broke the news for the Caller-Times. Link.Happens quite often when hunting? Really?
Accidental shootings happen in hunting all the time.That's one reason why hunters typically wear bright orange vests.
Shame about those five deferments of Cheney's. This accident may not have happened if he had gone through basic training, but of course, he had other priorities.
Lordy, what a bitch.
This person was not shot with a bullet. They were hunting quail, so likely that they guy got hit with bird shot. Depending on how close one is to the shooter, it probably wouldn't be fatal to get hit with some shot, but certainly painful (and considering that the guy was 78, possibly causing a heart attack from the shock). An object lesson on why gun safety is important.
Happens quite often when hunting? Really?In that same link, Armstrong claims to have also been peppered with birdshot, so apparently it does happen with some frequency.
It is reported, in Cheney's defense,that the intended target was theBill of Rights, but poor intelligencehas again, won out.
Chuck B:What makes you think if this happened to you, you would not have been treated exactly the same way?And what duty does anyone have to report this to "the media" sooner than 24 hours?
This accident may not have happened if he had gone through basic trainingI wonder why you would think so? Pheasant-hunting protocol is not a thing that they spend a lot of time on in basic. It's worth noting, after all, that Whittington apparently did not make his presence known to the other hunters, so I don't really see how negligence or carelessness on Cheney's part enters into it.
Lindsey, those quotes from the Bradys are disgusting. I do love how this incident provides the usual suspects (anti-gun people, AntiSemantic Leo, obnoxxo) a new way to say the same shit they've been saying for years.I'm working on some ideas involving a Clinton version of this story, where he sprays his hunting partner with his shot and she's rushed to the dry cleaners. Tired, I know, like the Cheney jokes, but still irresistible.Is that too crude? Have I "jumped the shark"? Classy!
Scott Adams' comment on the Cheney shooting is worth reading:...A medical team quickly tended to the wounded man, much to Cheney's disappointment, as the Vice President had already told friends he planned to mount Armstrong's head over the toilet in his upstairs powder room...
With all due respect to Mr. Whittington, he is equally to blame for approaching Cheney without announcing his presence.
mary,What from the story linked to allows you to infer this was a "hop out and shoot" kind of hunt. (Though possibly it was.)Sometimes accidents happen, even with "responsible" hunters. Cheney's as vulnerable to an accident as any one else. Of course, being vice-president, more people notice.And for the commenter above, for private citizens, there's no obligation whatsoever to notify the media (of anything, come to think of it.) There's nothing to indicate Cheney got special treatment from anyone but, since this wasn't a fatality, the victim seems to be doing fine, and this kind of thing isn't a rare occurrence, it's likely he did get special treatment, but I can't imagine what it was and, besides, so what? I suspect the VP gets better treatment than I do wherever he goes.A mildly amusing anecdote at best. Yawn.
Obviously Mary knows absolutely nothing about hunting Quail. That's why she is pontificating with such authority.If Europe had a Second Amendment, the muzz wouldn't be making everyone quiver right now. Reminds me, I need to clean and oil my collection of weapons tomorrow.
"It's nice he had 24 hours to get his story straight before reporting to the media. Lucky him." **Mary Jo Kopechne could not be reached for comment.As long as some are making this a political gotcha rather than an accident.
I smell an impostor. The real Dick Cheney would've dropped the guy.
I'm betting Whittington is somehow connected to Schlumberger, chief competitor of Halliburton ;-)I do have to agree with mary that while Whittington probably screwed up by not announcing his presence, the ultimate responsibility belongs to the guy pulling the trigger, and I predict Cheney will say the same.
Now that's funny, Paul! LOL.
Mary, indeed it is the responsibility of a hunter to know the locations of the members of his party. The man who was shot, however, was not a member of the party. He saw them hunting and decided to approach. He didn't announce himself. (He probably didn't want to risk scaring off the game.) It isn't really possible to tell from the published accounts whether Cheney did anything wrong or not. People saying he was obviously in the wrong, or that he obviously was not to blame, are actually just talking about what their prejudgment of Cheney is. At this point, there isn't any data of sufficient quality to reach a judgment.
Accidents would never happen, in a perfect left-wing utopian world.But anyway - Old Teddy Kennedy still has everyone beat on the "Oops! I killed someone!" ledger.
Patca,I see now that you beat me to it.
Maybe Dick should invite these guys on his next hunting trip?
It really isn't an either/or thing, it's an and/both. It's always, in the end, the responsibility of the man firing the gun to make sure no one is in harms way. But it's just plain silly to not announce oneself, especially if not wearing the bright orange garb.Actually, I anticipate some of the jokes that will come out of this could potentially be quite funny. Unfortunately, so many are going to treat this with so much stiff seriousness that the whole affair will be turned into another pro-Bush/anti-Bush bashfest. No harm, no foul, and so let us make merriment over the whole affair.
Hunting birds, you get hit by pellets quite frequently - it's just kind of a stinging rain. The time that hurt somewhat was when my lawyer friend shot me with a .45.
You know the left has little of substance when they have to pay so much attention to a hunting accident. When your boat is sinking you will hang on to anything.
No word yet as to Mr. Whittington's ties with Sadaam Hussein and the Ba'th Party.
W, that is the funniest post ever.....
Regarding the delay, in Wisconsin there are requirements for reporting gunshot injuries to police. Indiana (now Texas Tech) basketball coach Bob Knight was fined for failing to report an accident involving a grouse hunt (your joke about Knight's temper goes here) in which Knight peppered another man with shot.I'll be interested in seeing the police paperwork on this one.
From the first comment:What has Cheney done RIGHT, exactly, in the past five years?VPs typically don't have to do much of anything, I guess, but I can't think of anything positive he's done either. I wonder if he'll give up hunting?
"You know the left has little of substance when they have to pay so much attention to a hunting accident." Hello? Ann posted this, not Michael Moore. And really, do you think there is no news value in the Vice President shooting someone?!How long, I wonder, before Cheney blames it on bad intelligence.
My comment was in response to some of the earlier comments not Ann's post. And those comments are an indication of what the whole left is doing -- which is grabbing onto something that would not even be in the local news if it were not the VP. It's not the news value that I was remarking on -- it is the politics of the thing and how the left will use it.
How long, I wonder, before Cheney blames it on bad intelligence.Now come on, Bush wasn;t even there.
twm, I agree completely. It is absolutely shameful what the left will do with this.Whoops, wait a second....OK, folks, I think I got enough information here to tell you about the contents of this fax that I got. Brace yourselves. This fax contains information that I have just been told will appear in a newsletter to Morgan Stanley sales personnel this afternoon... What it is is a bit of news which says... there's a Washington consulting firm that has scheduled the release of a report that will appear, it will be published, that claims that this shooting took place in an apartment owned by Lynn Cheney, and the body was then taken to the ranch.
It was clearly an accident. Cheney was out hunting orphans and misidentified the target.
And those comments are an indication of what the whole left is doing -- which is grabbing onto something that would not even be in the local news if it were not the VP.Local man has heart attack isn't news either -- unless the man is the VP. I see little to distinguish the snarky comments from 'the left' regarding this incident from the snarky comments from 'the right' when John Kerry went hunting. They all seem to be poking fun at a political foe. And robert: Mr. Whittington was indeed a member of the hunting party. He had felled a bird and retrieved it and was returning from an unexpected direction, apparently, to the VP's hunting party.
As a non-hunter, my thoughts are to be taken with a grain of salt:I think that the person firing is 100% responsible. I think most responsible hunters would tell you that you never shoot your gun unless you know everything that's in your line of fire.I once went mountain biking with a friend of mine during hunting season. As we were getting ready to head into the woods, a couple of guys in camo came out of the woods with bows. We asked them about the wisdom of our excursion. They told us that anyone who shot at us would have to be doing it on purpose, since nobody goes hunting who doesn't know to take a good look before you shoot. Of course, that too is to be taken with a grain of salt. But the point is made. By and large people who hunt know the seriousness of firing a weapon and take the responisbility seriously. I think few would disagree that the armed party is responsible.On the other hand, it's my understanding that quail and turkey hunting are the most dangerous varieties of the sport. You hide in the bushes and make bird-like noises. Easy to see why a bird hunter might shoot at you. Me, when I learn to hunt I think I'll stick to ducks. You aim out into the water.As for this particular incident; we like to point at Cheney and laugh 'cause the guy's a jerk. But really, the incident is of no consequence except for the victim and his friends and family. I hope he's alright.
And now Jim and Sarah Brady are flipping out!
we like to point at Cheney and laugh 'cause the guy's a jerk.He is? What did he do, kick your puppy? Honestly, have you ever watched him, say, in the VP debates? He struck me as calm, courteous, and extremely in command of his facts. I am genuinely curious where this cariacture of Cheney as the big meanie comes from.
"Accidental shootings happen in hunting all the time." - So, you hunters are shooting each other all the time? Sounds like a fun hobby. When I play golf, I always know where the rest of the foursome is before I swing the club. I can't imagine anyone with a brain larger than a walnut not bothering to notice where his hunting partners were before pulling the trigger.
News reports are now saying that the guy was a member of their hunting party, not someone who wandered into the field of fire as I had previously understood. That would in fact seem to make it Cheney's fault.
Ooh! Lawyer jokes time! (Which Ann hates, to boot)Q: How many lawyers can a Vice-President shoot?A: One, but he's working on it.Cheers,Victoria
I smell an impostor. The real Dick Cheney would've dropped the guy.*LOL*And Rummy?Cheers,Victoria
When I play golf, I always know where the rest of the foursome is before I swing the club. I can't imagine anyone with a brain larger than a walnut not bothering to notice where his hunting partners were before pulling the trigger.It doesn't work that way in this sport.I was raised in hunt country in England, which is also very much grouse and pheasant-shooting country.People have mufflers on their ears, and though beaters were common back in the day, in modern times, hunters and shooters have set guidelines to announce their arrival in the shooting box.This includes hand gestures, flags, and other very visible signs.You obviously also do not approach someone from behind, without waiting for a lull in the shooting to occur.If you fail to do so, you get what Mr. Whittington got Saturday.It was nice of Dick Cheney to stay with him at his bedside, all Sunday.When the future Edward VII accidentally shot his brother-in-law, Prince Christian of Schleswig-Holstein, in the eye, which needed a falsie afterwards, he used to help his brother-in-law clean his eyeballs. Rough.To paraphrase the great Queen Latifah in Last Holiday:"That's why they call it shooting, not crochet"Cheers,Victoria
"He struck me as calm, courteous, and extremely in command of his facts."Regarding WMD? Iraq's connections to al qaeda?Cheney is smooth and plausible. He gets things done. Facts give way to agenda. That's why people can't stand him. Throw in Haliburton, torture, political misuse of classified intelligence, energy policy, publically questioning John Murtha's manhood, etc. etc...
Forgot to mention the most recent example: the thousands of lives saved by the NSA program, which the FBI says is not the case.
phew, he's not going to live this one down any time soon!
Thinking that the late-night guys will have a field day. I predict that one of them will use a line like this: Reference to Wittington's Republican credentials and record of support for Bush. Here's the punch line: If that's how he treats his friends, I sure don't want to be on his list of enemies.
All these comments - and not one has posted the obvious!"PHEASANTS? I thought you said PEASANTS!Look, it's an accident. They do happen. There is no deep, nefarious plot, nor is the VP Satan incarnate.
As much as the left hates Cheney and Karl Rove, they wish even more that they had two guys like them on their side.These guys get things accomplished and accomplishments are few and far between for the left these days.Unless you count Howard Dean's losing money for the DNC an accomplishment.
Karl Rove maybe, but Cheney no thanks. Look, the only reason that Cheney looked so calm and courteous in the VP debates, was because he had Lieberman basically asking if he could fluff his pillow and polish his shoes. Cheney seems to me to be a little bit crazy. I bet on his deathbed he'll be screaming, "they had stockpiles of nuclear weapons, I tell you".
Just because there was no secret plot by Cheney to shoot the guy, doesn't mean he's immune to all criticism. The guy was walking up behind Cheney, according to the witness account. How safe are you hunting when you shoot someone behind you? It seems obvious that Cheney wheeled around when the birds flushed, but let's make sure all the knee jerk apologists blame the poor guy that got shot. Cheney knew the guy had gone to retrieve a bird, so he needed to be sure he knew where the guy was.And according to Josh Marshall, the guy was still in intensive care two days later. But let's everyone share a chuckle over how those pellets "sting."The Vice President of the United States shot a guy, and people are actually asking who's business it is? And saying he's nice to have been at the guy's bedside? Give me a break.This isn't about Cheney being evil. The White House left it up to the woman who owned the ranch to notify the press. They are so allergic to taking responsibility for even the most easily explained screw up that it's disgusting.
If you accept the presmise (on evidence or otherwise) that Cheney was largely responsible for engeneering a war in Iraq in order to enrich his buddies at Halliburton with war profits and later with oil profits, then you'd think he was a jerk too.Plus, he looks like a troll.
As a life long bird hunter, accidents do happen; but, the basic rule of gun safety is dont pull the trigger if your target is not clearly idenitified and in sight and the impact area of your shot cannot be clearly identified--There may have been contributing factors; but ultimately the responsibility belongs to the hunter pulling the trigger.Full disclosure: I am a big fan of the VP, but he screwed this one up.
Clear just a ploy to get the administrations official (oafishal) incompetence out of the news…if only to catch its breath for another round of nazi-style propaganda.
anonlawstudent,What do his looks have to do with anything? Not to put too fine a point on it, but he would win a beauty contest over Hillary any day.And that matters why?
Dick screwed up, but stuff happens. A few more points not in this story.1. he was using a 28 gauge shotgun. The type used by police military etc is 12 gauge. a 12 gauge is a lot bigger. Think as though a 12 gauge is a meat cleaver and a 28 gauge is a scalpel. much less shot in a 28 gauge shell.2. they were shooting quail. that means "bird shot" very small (tiny) pellets, rather than 00 "buck shot" which again is what police would use 3. 30 yards would mean that the bird shot would sting and penetrate a very small amount, but unless it hit your eye, you'd only have the shock factor of a 78 y/o to worry about.4. quail hunting is close range, fast reaction shooting. fast little buggers....5. the hunters should have been more aware of their relative positioning, but stuff happens.Let's all be careful out there. I doubt that either Dick or the victim will stop hunting because of this.
Did any of the news stories indicate if the victim deserved it? Cause Cheyney can do no wrong in my book.
I have heard that in Texas "he just needed killing" is an acceptible defense for homicide.
This Ann's fault.She was the one who put the idea in her readers' heads of sending "FLEE AT ONCE --ALL IS DISCOVERED" emails to all the top people in the Bush administration.Surely it was not unexpected that a methodical person like Cheney would clean up loose ends on the way out?
But don't you see. All the criticism's about Bush losing OBL has finally lead to a solution. Cheney is in the final phase of a super secret military training program that will see him PERSONALY take out OBL! They needed to make sure he could actually hit a live body. And they'll just say Cheney went to Afghanistan to hunt quail.
chuckb (etc.):Editor & Publisher has a piece up that talks about the delay and quotes the local paper/reporter about what's typical for that area.It seems that in Texas there IS a requirement to report shooting incidents. No one's clearly stated whether that happened or not.It does appear that when contacted routinely, law enforcement officials did not mention or provide info on the shooting.I've worked weekend cop beats before. It is VERY routine to check in with law enforcement officials a number of times, especially on Saturdays when thinks tend to get a bit "hot". If that paper, via one of its reporters, says that information on an incident like this would normally have been released as part of the info requested from law enforcement officials, then I think we have to consider the possibility it may be true.That said--this story would indeed normally be only a cop brief or at least only a local-paper story, but because we're talking about V.P. Cheney here, it's a "man-bites-dog" thing.
Pete:You're right: there's no obligation on the part of private citizens to inform the media of anything. But they may be required to report certain things to law enforcement (I'm gathering--but haven't verified for sure--that this is true in Texas).In many (most?) states, private citizens--or at least newspapers--do have rights of access to police blotters and at least minimal information, though I don't know what time spans are attached, if any, generally speaking.And in this case, of course, a private citizen DID go the media--though interestingly, via political reporter.
I was shocked and saddened to come up empty when I searched this page for the word "Reno" and the phrase "just to watch him die".
We really needed to get a good story together that made ol’ “shotgun Dick” look as little incompetent as possible, rehearse everyone several time, then release the story to a Corpus Christi news outlet. Its turned out to be a good twist of fait because its gotten the actual stories about Dick off the news for the moment.
Aren't medicl personnel required by law to report gun shot wounds to the police?Both the hospital and the medical people assigned to Cheney who worked on the guy would be required to make an official report.
Both the hospital and the medical people assigned to Cheney who worked on the guy would be required to make an official report.Although I have not done my 4th year ER rotation yet, I can tell you why they probably didn't have to.The Vice President of the US is one of the few people in this country who actually goes around with law enforcement at his side, 24/7.This it becomes a moot point, capiche?You can be sure that Parkland Memorial physicians didn't report to the police about the shotgun wounds they treated on a certain John F. Kennedy, either.Cheers,Victoria
Thus, not this...doh.
Terry started this thread by saying it was a sad story--actually, this will keep the late night comedians going for days--some folks on this thread should be writing stand up--pretty good suff; butin the end, except for the poor SOB that caught a load of 7 and halfs in the face and chest, there really isnt much to this story unless the news cycle is absolutely dead.I do love the inside the beltway perspective. We have priorities man--the public's right to know....yada yada
Well, I wonder who's going to pay for 78-year-old guy's hospital care. He should pay out-of-pocket, no? Or do hunters carry strict liability insurance for their own hunting injuries? They should. Certainly, those arguing hunting can be a safe sport should be estopped from making that argument. Cheney is a seasoned, well-practiced practitioner. If he can't avoid sending someone to the hospital bleeding from the face, neck, and chest for an overnight stay there's no reason to think anyone else can either.
Chuck--you could check the statistics on hunting accidents, and if you did you would find it a very safe sport! It is an empirical question, you know.
Well, I don't want to check the statistics. If you want to argue that hunting is safe and cite the statistics that prove your point, I will happily read them and consider the argument. Otherwise, I am disinclined toward thinking hunting is a particularly "safe" sport at this point in time.
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