January 30, 2006

"I want those 19 Democrats' heads on a platter!!!"

Here's the DailyKos live comment response to the cloture vote on Alito, which was 72-25. There's a lot of outrage:
WTF?! I was expecting a close call. Not a mere 25. What happened?

i'm pissed. ...everyone of those dems who voted for cloture should be brought down

91 comments:

Simon said...

What happened is that only a handful of Democrats ultimately realized that they could vote against cloture and still look themselves in the mirror.

The funniest cloture reaction I say at Kos was from a poster called "teej," who self-righteously proclaimed that "WE'RE NOT SHEEP. We're individuals. We are the party of diversity." That's right, a Democrat is claiming that his party is the "party of diversity." If only I knew some pro-life Democrats I could share this news with! You know, the ones who dissent from the party line who were allowed to speak at their party's conference last year.

I suppose the most important question is, as a matter of linguistics, is this classed as a "defeat" or a "rout"?

I'm sorry to sound triumphal, I'm just really, really pleased. Alito was my first choice, before I really even knew who John Roberts was. He's going to be a credit to the court, and this is a great day for America.

XWL said...

I agree.

(of course I like the idea of a Senate with 72 Republican Senators)

The old circular firing squad joke need no longer be derrogatory regarding a particular ethnicity (number 2 on this list), that joke can easily be transferred to the Democratic Party's activist base.

Harkonnendog said...

It is just a matter of time before Kos will accuse HIMSELF of being a Karl Rove plant. HAHAHAHA!

RogerA said...

it must come as genuine shock to the faithful on Kos and DU that their senatorial representatives dont really give a damn about what the moonbats think--and are only in this exercise to preserve their reelection chances--some of this actually reminds me of the shock among American Communists in the late 1930s when the Soviets and Nazi's kissed and made up and carved up Europe.

What did Lenin say: Useful idiots.

And now those 25 nitwits will reap the whirlwind--the moonbat left isnt big enough to do anything for them, and they will be hung out to dry--Massachusetts will keep its two resident idiots, but who really gives a damn.

I suspect somewhere Karl Rove is thanking somebody that the moonbat left is so stupid. Think of the Republican soundbits in August.

Gaius Arbo said...

You know, I always hate wading into the comments over there. I need a shower after I look at them....

Frankly, they are calling for the removal of a lot of Dems - a LOT of venom being spewed on Lieberman.

Classy group.

wildaboutharrie said...

This is news? That there are some hysterical commenters on a large, very liberal blog?

Um...OK, thanks for the update. Pardon me while I head over to LGF to see what the brainiacs are up to.

Gah.

ShadyCharacter said...

wildaboutharrie,

minimize your party's problems all you want, just make sure you let us know when John McCain and Arlen Specter start posting on LGF (as Kennedy and Kerry are doing on Kos) :)

Simon said...

"Frankly, they are calling for the removal of a lot of Dems - a LOT of venom being spewed on Lieberman. Classy group."

In politics, no one is magnanimous in defeat. If the vote goes south tommorow - say Chafee locks a bunch of GOP Senators in the cloakroom - the venom from GOP ranks towards deserters will make the treatment of Liebermann look like a tea party. The stakes are just too high - another reason, if one were needed, why Roe must go.

SippicanCottage said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
RogerA said...

The one thing that strikes me is, that when democratic candidates for the presidency resort to showing up on the moonbat blogs, it really wont be hard to splash them with tripe that those blogs publish--I spent 25 years in the cavalry and have a pretty good command of four letter hypenated anglo-saxon terms--but the invective that flows from DU and KOS (and yes Free Republic and other right wing sites) is absolutely repulsive.

Can anyone NOT see a republican attack add that quotes some of the perverse, sexually and toilet oriented posters on KOS? and then saying: you posted on this site? do you agree with them?--These idiots give tin ear a whole new meaning.

whit said...

They eat their young.

Steve Donohue said...

Two thoughts while headed over there:

It's dangerous to extrapolate anything from the comments at Kos, but suppose that sentiments held over there are held by 4% of the population. Doesn't that put a few Senators- Byrd, Cantwell, Lieberman- in serious danger this November (or earlier).

And, following upon what "rogera" said, this is really a scary group; these are the sort of people who might consider really dangerous and illegal methods as absoltelu legitimate. Even the voices of moderation are unanimous in their dehumanization of Republicans- they're just a little less condemning of those in the Democratic Party who don't always do their bidding.

PatCA said...

Every time I read something over there I remember, unpleasantly, that stinky Puck character from MTV The Real World.

Gerry said...

Steve,

I think that those voices represent a heck of a lot more than 4% of the population. Closer to a quarter, if not a third.

And here's the kicker--- the leaders of the Democratic party, including the past two Presidential candidates, consider them to be their kindred spirits. They are posters on Kos. They court them. They want more people to be like them.

People reflexively want to believe that they are just a small fraction of the Democratic party. But the Democratic politicians with higher aspirations, from Kerry to Clinton to Bayh and so on sure aren't acting like they are a small fraction, are they?

Dave Schuler said...

The Kossacks are political idiots. Incumbents win elections. Period. If the 19 Democrats are replaced with what they will be replaced? It won't be “better” Democrats, it will be Republicans.

Gaius Arbo said...

Every once in a while someone tries to get the worst of them to tone it down. Any voice of moderation is invariably shouted down...

It is a scary place sometimes. I stay away from places like Free Republic for much the same reason.

And yeah, I can see some of those lovely comments appearing in campaign ads against Kerry and any other pol that posts there. Tin ears indeed.

BTW, I have read comments over there where some are advocating violence, so it is something to think about. Not to worry yet, but to be aware of.

RogerA said...

I regard myself as a social liberal, an economic conservative, and a national security hawk--I dont think I have a home in any political party--my task is to prioritize what is the most important thing to me--I come down on the side of national self preservation--thus, my vote, is first to take care of national security, anything after that is negotiable--so where do I fit in the current political discourse--is there a home for me?

Aspasia M. said...

For anyone who believes that incivility belongs to only one party:

Did you hear that charming joke make by Ann Coulter about rat poison in Steven's creme bruee?

Ummmm...This woman is on national T.V., and touted as a Republican pundit. And you all are complaining about random people posting on a web site?

Glass Houses.

whit said...

Could we be witnessing a left-wing meltdown? The frustrated Deaniacs have recently turned on Deborah Howell, Washington Post, for daring to say the Dems had taken money from Abramoff. Another recent victim of the pogrom is Chris Matthews for saying that Osama “sounds like an over-the-top Michael Moore.”

What's going to happen when they find out that Dr. Dean has spent his committee down to $5 million while the RNC is sitting on $34 million?

Leftist revolutions tend to be bloody.

RogerA said...

No Goeduck--Ann Coulter is an idiot and should face prosecution if warranted--Why do you assume that all people whom you regard as on the right support that kind of over the top crap? You think we are unfeeling, uneducated and unsophisticated rush-addled idiots?

whit said...

Ann Coulter is brilliant and good looking but sometimes a "bit over the top."

I'm sure conservatives would trade her for Cindy Sheehan or Maureen Dowd anyday.

EddieP said...

I hate to see the Democrat party heel to the children at Kos. I'm a republican, but don't want a super majority republican congress. However, those LLL lemmings are getting restless and the cliff beckons. No telling what damage those idiots are going to do, but it's a lot worse than Ross Perot ever did to the repubs.

Drew W said...

Said Kos:
WTF?! I was expecting a close call. Not a mere 25. What happened?

i'm pissed. ...everyone of those dems who voted for cloture should be brought down


Leave aside for a moment the whining, adolescent, Mom-said-I-couldn't-drive-her-Lexus tone of voice, as well as his apparent lack of certainty as to how he wants to write the pronoun "I."

He was expressing disappointment at the Dems failure to achieve a "close call." Victory was never seen as even a possibility. A minimized defeat was the goal. Welcome to the future of the Democratic Party. (Too bad the loser-lefties aren't able to take refuge in the old stand-by: accusations of crooked vote-counting.)

Aspasia M. said...

RogerA,

I know there are many honorable and intelligent Republicans. If liberal Republicans still existed, and the Karl Rove style of politics hadn't taken over the capitol, I might vote Republican. (I worry about the exploding budget - which apparently, is no longer a Republican concern.) The comity of 30 years ago no longer exists in Washington. (And it's been getting worse, fueled by people like Mitch McConnell and Roger Ailes, who view politics as a game devoid of principle.)

How ever, I also know that Coulter is not condemned by the RNC or other political groups for her "jokes." She is repeatedly paid to lecture and asked to numerous TV shows. There is no Republican movement that criticizs her "jokes."

I mean, look at Whit's comment on this list. The woman just "joked" about killing a SCOTUS justice.

So I was a little disgusted with anger over ordinary citizens who comment on a non-regulated blog. I was saying, and will say it again, pot meet kettle.

Or, if you're ok with Ann Coulter, don't get upset if your political opposition spews similar invective.

SippicanCottage said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
gj said...

Ann, your post should have made it clearer that the stupid quote was from a comment, it wasn't written by Kos.

If bloggers had to be held accountable for all the comments people left on their sites, they'd all be ranked as embeciles (not to mention vxxgra salesmen).

Aspasia M. said...

FYI:

This thead is displaying some confusion about what Kos writes vs. the opinions of commenters on the Kos site.

Kos was not surprised that the cloture vote passed. He was expecting it, as he clearly wrote on his site.

Here is Kos:

"...the numbers in the Senate always worked against us. We need to increase the number of Dems in order to give Red state Democrats (who we very much need) the cover they need on votes like these. That's the single most important thing we can do."

This is typical of something Kos may write. He is less concerned with ideology, and advocates increasing Democratic numbers both at the state and national level.

(Don't you all remember the article Ann posted on this site a few weeks ago about Kos? That article talked about winning elections, yadda, ect.)

Kos is a former Reagan Democrat, and has served in the US military. He's not a "green party" advocate. Rather, he advocates building up the numbers and strength of the Democratic party.

Ann Althouse said...

Geoduck: It's despicable to talk about killing a Supreme Court justice. I didn't blog about it because I didn't want to take the bait, but I criticized the people who tried to get back at Justice Souter the other day. This blog post isn't saying liberals are worse than conservatives, it's just pointing out the response of the liberals to this incident. My general reaction is that the people there seem really young and naive, strangely shocked that more people don't agree with them and unwilling to think about how elected officials must appeal to the range of people they represent.

RogerA said...

thank you Goeduck--I said nothing in my post that you responded to--you suggested that there are many idiots in the republican party; that the republican party joins those criticisms, and I think personally think that is stupid--so, Ms. Goeduck--if you want to condemn what others say fine--dont address it to me, because I didnt say it--Is that fair? and dont give me that sanctimonious crap about Karl Rove--James Carville and Sidney Blumenthal wrote the book on partisan attacks--for example, Geoduck--are you some trailer park trash would would glom onto a 20 dollar bill?

I told you Ann Coulter was an ass--I didnt say a damn think about what the republican organization said--so if you want to go off, fine--dont drag me into your world-

I condemned Ann Coulter--Just what was unclear about my post? I think my words were Ann Coulter is an idiot..So spare me your righteous anger--learn to read, and if you have a issue, take it to the right person--That person would NOT be me--You are working on a degree in Higher Education? accroding to your profile? learn to read girl--it will stand you in good stead. We can work on the thinking part later.

Jacques Cuze said...

This blog post isn't saying liberals are worse than conservatives, it's just pointing out the response of the liberals to this incident. My general reaction is that the people there seem really young and naive, strangely shocked that more people don't agree with them and unwilling to think about how elected officials must appeal to the range of people they represent.

That's really what you believe your blog post says? Frankly that's weird! I don't think that's what a casual observer reading your post and those of your friends leaving comments would believe.

Mainly what I read in this thread is that "all Dems are nasty", followed by, "how dare you attribute one conservative's outrageous post to me!" What a partisan non-argument!

Rewrite and resubmit for full credit, otherwise I will be forced to conclude that conservatives have a long, long way to go to convince me that they care about respect.

Ann Althouse said...

gj said..."Ann, your post should have made it clearer that the stupid quote was from a comment, it wasn't written by Kos."

Ridiculous! It's perfectly clear.

Lola said...

I'm just glad this whole process has finally come to an end - despite many attempts at delays by the Dems. The filibuster was a last ditch effort that failed miserable. It's time the Senate has an opportunity to do their job and cast a vote - Judge Alito deserves the respect of a full vote. And, I for one am happy at the prospect of someone with Judge Alito's credentials and qualifications serving on the Supreme Court.

Simon said...

"Ann Coulter is brilliant and good looking but sometimes a 'bit over the top.'"

This is officially the most controversial thing ever posted on Althouse. I remain bemused by the seeming conservative predilection for terrifyingly-look anorexic blondes. Ann Coulter is occaisionally very funny and sharp, but usually amounts to little more than a shock jock, and I just don't get the argument that she's attractive. If bony blondes does it for you, I suppose.

Then again, I think Geena David, Janeane Garofalo and Hillary Clinton are quite attractive, so maybe I just don't have a clue about these things. ;)

Aspasia M. said...

Ann,

I think what you said about Souter was great.

Yeah, a bunch of the commenters do seem young and agitated. Of course, they have just finished a weekend of calling their political representatives, so they're dissapointed. And the judges on SCOTUS will affect generations.

Frankly, a lot of them are scared that some of their liberies will be taken away. There are people who are genuinely frightened that Roe will be overturned. Others are worried about the Yoo doctrine of presidential power. So fear underlies much of this anger. It's harder to be accepting of fate/ and or that the state can take something away that you had taken for granted/ when one is young.

Aspasia M. said...

Simon,

I think you have very fine aesthetic taste!

Of course, I'm only a shellfish.

Gaius Arbo said...

Geoduck,

I frankly don't like Ann Coulter, but that's beside the point here.

I do not think it's pot and kettle at all. You do not see the outright hate and venom regularly expressed on Ms. Althouse's blog - or on any of the blogs I frequent. When the occasional loon (from either fringe) shows up, they are usually pretty roundly put down, but not in an over the top, violent tone.

Also, you seem to think everyone who takes issue with the Kossites is a hardcore, VRWC card carrying Republican. I'm not. I probably sound like one sometimes because I am rather firmly anti-socialist - which the far left is... I'm also pretty big on national security. In fact, it's the one issue I will not - ever - compromise on. I have a son going for his second tour to Iraq, so I have a pretty high stake in it.

What I am seeing is a lemming-like rush to the fringe by the Dems, and that is NOT healthy for this country. So, try to understand where I am coming from instead of deciding I am either a pot or a kettle..

(Verification yufmf - which sounds sortof like some muttered epithet.....)

Aspasia M. said...

RogerA

What did I say? What did I say!? Oh my.

I'm sorry that I insulted you. It was not personal. I don't think you personally approve of Coulter. I also, in no way, think that you are responsible for the pundits that are on TV or the political rancour in Washington.

I was talking about the political discourse and the use of Ann C. as a pundit on air. I also mentioned the lack of commity with is something that has broken down on both sides of the aisle. We all know who Ailes is...so that's self explanatory.

Look, I appreciate what you said in your first message. I could have done without the trailor trash personal insults. (What's wrong with living in a trailor anyway?) And no, my PhD is not in higher ed.

Seriously, I don't understand what I said to insult you. Maybe you thought I was referring to you in particular? Anyway, it wasn't personal. I don't know what else to say.

RogerA said...

Geoduck--you got me--I apologize for going off on you--it wasnt warranted. I would believe that both sides of the political spectrum are responsible for the current level of discourse--Roger Aisles, James Carville--it simply isnt pretty and I am damned tired of it. So I over reacted--would you accept the bad day excuse? Genuine apologies-I promise to be more of a gentleman the next time around.
OK?

Yevgeny Vilensky said...

geoduck2--

Remember that National Review fired Coulter after her "conquer their countries and convert them to Christianity" column. So it's not like the entire Right-wing is swooning all over her. I would say that NR and Weekly Standard have significantly more sway over the policy-makers than Coulter and Hannity. They're a two-person echo chamber all on their own. So, some misguided CR's invite her to speak on campus to enrage the left, get themselves banned, and then be able to whine about it to ISI. Big deal. Ward Churchill has a significantly larger campus following than Coulter could ever muster. They're all clowns.


quxxo--

I was waiting for you to jump in. How are ya ole chap?

Aspasia M. said...

General message to posters:

1) I do not think that posters like and/or approve of Ann Coulter.

2) I do not think Republicans are bad/stupid/big meanies/ect. I would vote for a liberal or possibly a moderate Republican - if the political dynamics at Washington and at the state level were different. I think Larry Wilkerson and many other Republicans are wonderful public servants.

3) It was not a personal insult - I was trying to articulate that there is political invective from many partisan places in this country. (I also think what Ann C. said was dangerous and not helpful for a healthy political discourse.) But I do not think commenters on this list are responsible for what Ann C. said.

All right - back to the regularly scheduled program.

Aspasia M. said...

RogerA

I just read you comment after I posted. No problem. I didn't realize that I was being inflamatory or insulting.

I should be more careful when I address a post to a particular person. After the first paragraph I really was speaking in general terms, and was not thinking about how I had addressed my post.

SippicanCottage said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Pete said...

Geoduck2,

I don't believe RogerA was insulting you with the trailer park trash statement. Instead, he was referencing the good James Carville during the fine ol' Paula Jones/Bill Clinton days.

(Whoops, I see he's apologized while I was posting this so he doesn't need me to come to his defense.)

brylin said...

Interesting that on the day the Alito filibuster was soundly rejected, President Bush has reached the magic 50% approval rating.

gj said...

brylin, think again.

Alan said...

@SippicanCottage:

Regarding the Free Republic site, the pro-life contingent there are loons. Their taking pro-life to its complete absurdity during the Shiavo mess was almost enough to turn this Barry Goldwater conservative away from the GOP. What's most disconcerting is how practically every conservative pundit (Rush, Hannity, Ingraham, Coulter, etc.) echoes the same crap I witnessed at the Free Republic. If it weren't for the War on Terror the GOP would probably implode over the religious right's control.

DR said...

It's funny, really, how all of the conservative bloggers are trolling the comments over at Kos and plastering them all over the blogosphere.

I know it's self serving for them, but do the Kossacks know they are being watched like animals in a zoo?

Gabe said...

James Carville and Sidney Blumenthal wrote the book on partisan attacks

RogerA - If they did, it was the second edition to the one written by Lee Atwater.

Bruce Hayden said...

The insanity is that a lot of the Republicans in the Senate were just itching for cloture to fail. They could use this as campaign fodder against Democrats voting against it, while passing the Nuclear Option to eliminate judicial fillibusters entirely, soon to be followed by any number of even more conservative appeals court judges that the Democrats would now have no way of stopping.

A lot of those same Democrats who voted for cloture are going to vote against confirming Judge Alito. This vote was political cover for them voting the way they really want to vote. It allows them to look judicious, instead of zeleously partisan.

So, in any red or purple state, as many of the Senate Democrats voting for cloture represent, their vote increased their chances of reelection, not decreased, as suggested by those Kos posters.

dick said...

Gabe,

Check out bill Moyers and his attacks on Goldwater. Check out Al Gore and his attacks on Michael Dukakis (he was the one who started the bit about the murderer, not Bush).

Jacques Cuze said...

All of you delicate conservatives, you too Ann, check out what your fellow conservative is doing in your name over at the Free Republic regarding the new video of Jill Carroll.

I know, I know, you don't like them, they do not represent you, how dare I claim they represent you. But on and on and on about the nasty kossite democrats and evil they are and how all you youstabees feel so much better now that the party has left you.

Would one of you tell me if you are knowingly disingenuous, or if you really are this clueless?

New Video Shows Kidnapped Reporter Weeping
Why should she be upset --- She's among friends...

I have NO sympathy for her -- sorry
3 posted on 01/30/2006 6:08:01 PM PST by conservativehusker (GO BIG RED!!!!)

--

I have read pieces in the Christian Science Monitor that were very anti-US.

Did this reporter write any articles or stories that were pro-Islamic or anti-US?
5 posted on 01/30/2006 6:13:19 PM PST by SkyPilot

--

I'm sorry, but for some reason I'm not convinced she's not faking it.

I've seen both videos. In the first, I did not see any fear in her eyes.

In the second, she seemed to me to be acting.

I base all this in the context of having watched other hostage videos and saw plenty of fear in the eyes of the captives.
10 posted on 01/30/2006 6:21:38 PM PST by FReepaholic

--

The radical Ialamic mouthpiece, Aljazera, did not air the audio from this tape or from her previous tape. I have a strong feeling that her tears were not for herself. She just does not seem like the type of person who would have this type of fear for herself. I think she is crying in empathy from a different sort of threat.

I would love to see a lip reader's transcript of her tapes.
14 posted on 01/30/2006 6:23:17 PM PST by Jeff Gordon

--

My daughter would have more brains than this women shows....isn't it funny how a pro terrorist journalist can get herself into this trouble..with the very animals she has supported - then we are supposed to feel sorry for her because "what if it was my daughter" well it's not...why should I have any sympathy for a person who gives aid and comfort to the very people who have sworn to kill everyone or enslave I love
16 posted on 01/30/2006 6:28:20 PM PST by conservativehusker (GO BIG RED!!!!)

--

Regardless of her political inclinations, were the Islamofascists to execute her, it would confirm the need to invade their countries and kill their leaders - lets not make the same mistake we made in the 20's and 30's.

22 posted on 01/30/2006 7:11:14 PM PST by spanalot

--

She's implicit in the whole thing, when she's released she will spend the next couple of years denouncing Bush and anything western - and spending her cut of the ransom money.

23 posted on 01/30/2006 7:16:00 PM PST by norton

Daryl Herbert said...

Ann Coulter is an idiot and should face prosecution if warranted

Does anyone here believe there is someone who should not face prosecution "if warranted?"

I will go on the record to say that if X is warranted, then X should happen! What a strong stance in favor of X!

Let me further state: Ann, if your prosecution is "warranted," then I believe you should be prosecuted. For what crimes, and by what criteria warranting is determined, I shall remain silent--for now. But I hold you and Ann Coulter to the same standard of following through in the event of warrantedness.

Jacques Cuze said...

I know, I know, LGF doesn't speak for you, and Ann and you guys are all so much more respectable. But those damned dirty democrats!!!

JihadTV Runs Another Hostage Video

Saw her on Fox a few minutes ago and felt no sympathy. Does that make me a bad person?

oh well.

--

I do feel for her, she's finally realizing her idealism isn't reality.

--

Memo to all the fifth columnists in the form of "peace activists", aid "workers" and "journalists":

When you eat with Satan, you better have a long spoon.

I have no sympathy for this woman. She went over there blinded by her anti-Americanism. To "make a difference" and to promote "change".

Ok, so I'm a BAD PERSON.

--

Quote from Rush today on Bob Woodruff, and the attention the media pays to HIS injuries and heroism, while ignoring the stories of those wounded every day in battle, except to use those injuries as a propoganda tool against Bush's War:

At any rate, I have all the sympathy here in the world for Bob Woodruff, don't misunderstand, folks, I just think it is instructive to look at what it takes for these people to understand that this is real and that this is dangerous.

They run stories trying to impugn the character and the makeup and the intellect of the armed forces that volunteer to go over there.

--

Screw Woodruff. US troops probably risked themselves to get his sorry ass to the hospital. He will reward them no doubt with more treasonous rantings that pass as "news" in the MSM.

The MSM is the enemy. They are more dangerous to America than Al Quaeda.

--

Where's the evidence that she went there as a propagandist for the jihadis? After all, she was filing for the Christian Science Monitor"

Thats enough evidence for me...

--

Jacques Cuze said...

Today, twenty five democratic senators and over the weekend thousands of brave, valiant and heroic democrats marched in the steps of Robert F. Kennedy:

"Some believe there is nothing one man or one woman can do against the enormous array of the world's ills. Yet many of the world's great movements, of thought and action, have flowed from the work of a single man. A young monk began the Protestant reformation, a young general extended an empire from Macedonia to the borders of the earth, and a young woman reclaimed the territory of France. It was a young Italian explorer who discovered the New World, and the thirty-two-year-old Thomas Jefferson who proclaimed that all men are created equal.

"These men moved the world, and so can we all. Few will have the greatness to bend history itself, but each of us can work to change a small portion of events, and in the total of all those acts will be written the history of this generation. It is from numberless diverse acts of courage and belief that human history is shaped. Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring, those ripples build a current that can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance.

"Few are willing to brave the disapproval of their fellows, the censure of their colleagues, the wrath of their society. Moral courage is a rarer commodity than bravery in battle or great intelligence. Yet it is the one essential, vital quality for those who seek to change a world that yields most painfully to change. And I believe that in this generation those with the courage to enter the moral conflict will find themselves with companions in every corner of the globe.

"For the fortunate among us, there is the temptation to follow the easy and familiar paths of personal ambition and financial success so grandly spread before those who enjoy the privilege of education. But that is not the road history has marked out for us. Like it or not, we live in times of danger and uncertainty. But they are also more open to the creative energy of men than any other time in history. All of us will ultimately be judged and as the years pass we will surely judge ourselves, on the effort we have contributed to building a new world society and the extent to which our ideals and goals have shaped that effort.

"The future does not belong to those who are content with today, apathetic toward common problems and their fellow man alike, timid and fearful in the face of new ideas and bold projects. Rather it will belong to those who can blend vision, reason and courage in a personal commitment to the ideals and great enterprises of American Society.

"Our future may lie beyond our vision, but it is not completely beyond our control. It is the shaping impulse of America that neither fate nor nature nor the irresistible tides of history, but the work of our own hands, matched to reason and principle, that will determine our destiny. There is pride in that, even arrogance, but there is also experience and truth. In any event, it is the only way we can live."


Heroes to our nation, one and all.

(But if you want, you can feel superior to those that you disagree with on Kos and ignore the monster's in your own closet.)

Goatwhacker said...

(Alan said) Regarding the Free Republic site, the pro-life contingent there are loons. Their taking pro-life to its complete absurdity during the Shiavo mess was almost enough to turn this Barry Goldwater conservative away from the GOP. What's most disconcerting is how practically every conservative pundit (Rush, Hannity, Ingraham, Coulter, etc.) echoes the same crap I witnessed at the Free Republic.

I have to echo this. There are some great threads and people at Free Republic but the Schiavo mess really brought out the worst. The same folks who criticized liberals for their Nazi imagery did not hesitate to call anyone who disagreed with them on Schiavo (including fellow conservatives) Nazis as well. I rarely go to FR any more.

There are equally crazed loonies on both sides (although I have to say the profanity is much worse on the liberal side for whatever reason). I predict eventually people will turn away from Kos just as many have turned away from FR.

John Thacker said...

Both parties have their crazies, certainly, and the point about the insanity of comment swamps at LGF and FR is well-taken. However, neither of those two sites have sitting Senators sucking up to them and blogging on them, do they?

reader_iam said...

Sippican:

I know there's no reason in particular for you to take my word for it, but still I feel compelled to say: believe you me, the freeps (along with other blogs on its side) can give the koskids (along with other blogs on its side) a run for their money.

Degree and style are just that.

Spare yourself and don't follow either over extended periods to determine the truth of that statement. Or go ahead ... with my empathy.

RogerA: Where do you belong? Now, that'd be elephant-in-the-room question, for both parties.

Wildaboutharrie: With (very sincere, I hope you know, because I mean it) respect, I'd like to see criticism of one side not greeted with the automatic assumption that the person offering such isn't aware that, on other issues and in other places and times, the same slap is also deserved by others.

Also, this is ongoing news, in these virulent, intellectually dishonest, and wilfully-unimaginative-in-terms-of-the-other times. In my estimation, it's vital that this infection be brought into the (eventually, I hope) disinfecting light over and over and over and over again.

Well, those are a few of my thoughts, for what they're worth.

reader_iam said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
reader_iam said...

As far as the shock about a close vote: that speaks volumes about the perspicacity of the source.

In no way should this have been a surprise to anyone in the wake of the hearings. If truly surprised, Kos is ... well. It speaks for itself. If he isn't ... well. It speaks for itself.

Wishin' ain't gettin'. Far, far, far, far less does it pass for analytical thought. Or even common sense and the ability to see The Writing On The Wall In Block Caps.

(Have none of Kos' followers read the Hans Christian Andersen's "The Emperor's New Suit," by the way?)

reader_iam said...

For the record, I can't abide Ann Coulter. (Feel free to apply "in these virulent, intellectually dishonest, and wilfully-unimaginative-in-terms-of-the-other" and "[w]ishin' ain't gettin'. Far, far, far, far less does it pass for analytical thought" in equal measure.)

Freakin' twin spawns of different mothers.

(Ahem--can you tell I feel strongly about this? So it goes.)

Kirk Parker said...

Yevgeny,

I do indeed remember NR dumping Coulter. I certainly don't regret their doing so (I'm no fan of Coulter or anyone else who employs the same degree of over-the-top glib broad-brushing.)

I do think, however, that it's quite ironic in that "conquer their countries and convert them to Christianity" is one of the less-objectionable things she's said. Compare it, for example, to her crack about why didn't the hijackers hit the NYT building, or the stuff about Stevens.

Look at it one way, and it's just returning Bin Laden & co. the same favor they'd like to do for us--minus the mass murder of civilians, that is; I can't find anywhere where she's recommended that.

So if we're going to chase her out of polite company (and if I don't join the chase, I'll at least hold your jackets) we might as well do it for the truly deserving stuff.

chuck b. said...

Ann Coulter makes me laugh out loud, and I appreciate her for that. She only disappoints me when she's nasty without being completely outrageous. Imo, if you're going to be nasty, you need to be over-the-top, or it just doesn't work (unless it's quiet and personal; quiet, personal nastiness can be really effective in the right situations).

Thersites said...

In no way should this have been a surprise to anyone in the wake of the hearings. If truly surprised, Kos is ... well. It speaks for itself. If he isn't ... well. It speaks for itself.

Kos wasn't surprised, you ninny.

There's nothing on the Kos thread cited remotely comparable to the a href="http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1568365/posts">Freeper thread where we see posters saying that American journalists deserve to be executed by Islamicists. The worst you all have here is people at Kos saying "fuck," and you all getting the vapors, which mostly makes you a bunch of smug prigs. False equivalence, kiddies.

Althouse runs around calling strangers "sexists" on imaginary pretexts, and you all think that's kewl. Good for you! MMMM, yummy hypocrisy...

Palladian said...

Thersites, I can't believe you're still on about that sexist thing. Seek help.

And while I'm wasting my time responding to pathetic trolls: quxxo, why do you comment here? Do you actually think your invective (or more accurately, other people's invective that you paste here) convinces anyone or makes anyone see your side as reasonable? You seem to have the mistaken idea that if you shout "GOTCHA!" enough times, we unreformed evil persons will hang our heads in shame and repent. Memo to trolls and Democratic party advisers: sarcasm, snide remarks, threats of revolution, expletives and excessive exclamation points do not endear people to your message.

If those 25 Democratic senators that voted against cloture were capable of feeling shame, shame on them.

Anyway, once again we feel the magic Kos touch, the one that gave over 500,000 dollars to 15 Democratic senate candidates that all lost. No, really, he WANTED them to lose! It was about, uh, underfunded candidates, not winning! He, uh, didn't expect cloture would be denied on the Alito vote either. Yeah!

Ernst Blofeld said...

Free Republic seems to have calmed down from what it was several years ago. Emotions were running high in the Clinton years.

There seems to be a threshold number of participants in an unedited forum, beyond which lies chaos and stupidity. It's like the old rule for determining the collective IQ of a committee: start at 100 and subtract 5 points for every member added. Large numbers of participants leads to over-the-top posturing if there isn't a firm hand on the comments section, which is why lgf is a mess.

If only Ann Coulter had the wits to apply for an NEA grant. She's already doing transgressive, epater les bourgeois performance art. Add some chocolate and she'd be there.

And, btw, I don't buy the "Kos wasn't surprised" argument. Last saturday himself posted this: "This is probably the most united I've ever seen the Democratic establishment, that is, Democrats without offices in the U.S. Senate. Even the DLC is calling for a filibuster. Center, left, right -- all corners of the party agree." Which may have been accurate, in an oracle-of-delphi way, but he was either surprised or misleading his readers about the chances of success.

Johnny Nucleo said...

quxxo,

Clearly the comments from LGF you posted are unserious. But will you concede that the comments from Kos that have been mocked on this blog are also unserious?

Both sides thrive on red meat. But, for the most part, the Right keeps its crazies in check while the Kos Kidz -- and Ann is right, they seem young and naive -- are becoming the powerful new Insane Wing of the Democratic Party. This is bad for the Democrats because it will ensure that they continue to lose elections; it's bad for the country because we need two serious parties if we're going to win this war.

Do you believe we're even at war? By "war" I don't mean imperial action, but existential struggle with an external enemy.

Do you think "existential struggle with an external enemy" is crazy-talk?

Do you think America is becoming "fascist"? "Orwellian"? Really? Then why aren't you in prison or dead?

If an American city is nuked, who will you blame? (Bush) And then what?

If an American city is nuked, how may people all over the world do you think will end up dead? One million? One hundred million? How "orwellian" do you think things will be then?

Is there a greater imperative than preventing such a scenario? Over the course of the next 20 years, do you think isolation, negotiation, the EU, the UN, will prevent such a scenario?

Bush will be gone in three years. Let's say a Democrat wins. Will it all go away then?

Quxxo, you post on this blog a lot. You want to convince people that you are right and they are wrong. I commend you for this. Clearly you care. But you stink up the place with your self-righteous posturing. A word of advice: when trying to express an idea, don't quote big blocks of writing you like. It's not convincing. Especially if your point is "I, quxxo, and the Kos Kidz, and the heroes described in this big block of text I have quoted, are the same, and you, FIENDS!, are villains!"

Ann Althouse said...

How did the issue that there are crazies on both sides take over this thread? Everyone knows that and no one is disputing it. I've been brutalized personally by both sides, and I've already said the LGFrs were worse.

And how did Ann Coulter become the subject? Clearly, she says things like that recent one to get her name in the news. You're giving her exactly what she wants. If you don't like her, why are you playing into her hand? And then to criticize me because I don't.... Ridiculous!

This post isn't about the Kos people being crazy or overstating things, although the style of expression is of some interest. It's about how stunned and shocked they are. I think it's interesting that they were so unrealistic.

wildaboutharrie said...

Reader wrote "Wildaboutharrie: With (very sincere, I hope you know, because I mean it) respect, I'd like to see criticism of one side not greeted with the automatic assumption that the person offering such isn't aware that, on other issues and in other places and times, the same slap is also deserved by others."

I know, I know, Reader, it's a tiresome argument and bugs me too, and I almost didn't post, but I just couldn't stop myself. Laughing at the freaks when they intrude on you can be fun, but wandering over on purpose, with copy and paste at the ready, strikes me as pretty third grade. Hence, my "Well, you're another" reply.

Shady, thanks for the laff!

knoxgirl said...

simon said: "the seeming conservative predilection for terrifyingly-look anorexic blondes"

Indeed. It is a little-known fact that Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan, Nicole Richie, and Mary-Kate Olsen are quite popular conservative icons as well.

Scipio said...

Hah.

[kossacks]Evacuate? In our moment of triumph? I think you overestimate their chances.[/kossacks]

Steve Donohue said...

There seems to be a threshold number of participants in an unedited forum, beyond which lies chaos and stupidity. It's like the old rule for determining the collective IQ of a committee: start at 100 and subtract 5 points for every member added.

Ernst Blofeld is being generous. My rule of thumb is that you take the lowest IQ on the committee and devide that by the number of people on the committee.

Jacques Cuze said...

How did the issue that there are crazies on both sides take over this thread?

Reread your post Ann, you didn't provide any sense of what your theme was, and the word you used "outrage" and the quotes you used "heads on a platter" and "should be brought down" is much more conducive to having your echo chamber move into "those damned dirty democrats" territory than into "naive, young, idealistic" territory.

Remember, we aren't mind readers. You have to use your words. It's unrealistic for you to just expect us to know what you want.

Simon said...

"Indeed. It is a little-known fact that Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan, Nicole Richie, and Mary-Kate Olsen are quite popular conservative icons as well."

Just beause someone is rich and stupid doesn't mean that they's conservative, Knoxgirl. ;)

(Actually, in fairness, I think Ashley Olson might be on our side; I just hope the others aren't).

Ann Althouse said...

Quxxo: You're always demanding that I use a sledgehammer, but that isn't my style. Has it ever occurred to you that I might be interested in seeing where folks take a thread? If I only wanted people to say what I had planned, I could just say it myself. This could be an entirely different blog, couldn't it? Suffice it to say, I make my choices, and I have an idea of how to write a blog, for which I get more positive reinforcement than I need to continue doing it my way. Your naysaying is filibusteristically futile.

Jacques Cuze said...

Has it ever occurred to you that I might be interested in seeing where folks take a thread?

Now that would seem to be a difficult conclusion to reach when you chastise your readers for getting off track.

This post isn't about the Kos people being crazy or overstating things, although the style of expression is of some interest. It's about how stunned and shocked they are. I think it's interesting that they were so unrealistic

But I stand corrected.

Ann Althouse said...

Quxxo: "Now that would seem to be a difficult conclusion to reach when you chastise your readers for getting off track."

You specialize in not getting me. It's actually not a difficult conclusion. You just don't try hard enough to get to answers... or you just like being obtuse. It's usually best around here to begin with the assumption that I haven't contradicted myself. Then, try to get it. Be an it-getter.

Wurly said...

I predict that "Be an it-getter" will be one of my favorite phrases for 2006.

HaloJonesFan said...

Ann: It's because tu quoque is a very popular fallacy among people who "debate" on the Internet. (That, and "No True Scot".)

Pogo said...

The Kos posters appear to be as clueless to the wind direction as Kerry. It is both a smug and arrogant stance.

More worrisome, as I read the comments, is the drift towards advocating illiberal behavior on their posts. In Madison, Nov. 2004, several sons of Democrat party leaders slashed tires of Republican vans on the morning of the election. I can see how the increasing bile and opprobrium expressed on Kos could easily translate into more such violence.

I have similar concerns about the over-the-top LGF posts, but the last election found many instances of leftist violence. Are they moving towards illegal activities, like right-wing abortion clinic bombings? Once someone becomes convinced of the righteousness of their cause, then anything can be permitted in its name.

Anyway, it has me a bit worried, and I can no longer just shrug my shoulders and roll my eyes.

Ann Althouse said...

Wurly: Make sure to give Steve Colbert credit, not me.

knoxgirl said...

*sigh*mon, that was a joke

HaloJonesFan said...

Pogo: They already have been for quite some time. There aren't many Young Republicans among Monkeywrenchers.

SippicanCottage said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jacques Cuze said...

That's right. RFK would be a conservative today, and probably a youstabee just like Ann and Roger L. Simon and Mr. MosquitoeHouse here.

In fact RFK would have been the first to put Teddy in jail and would most likely be at Gitmo today as head torturer.

Come on, mosquitohouse, you're jumping the shark here.

Jacques Cuze said...

Seriously, what's left to say? Don't you people have jobs?

Yeah mosquitoman, I build advanced defense systems for the army and our troops. What do you build?

Scipio said...

He builds character, quxxo.

SippicanCottage said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
XWL said...

If what quxxo says about his/her employment is true (and why should I doubt him/her?) then our eeeevil right wing thought purity hit squads have been woefully inefficient.

What's the point of the NSA wiretaps, Patriot Act library book surveillance, and eeeevil Roveian mind rays if folks who think (or copy and paste) like quxxo work in sensitive defense related industries.

This whole fascist state we currently suffer is really half assed about it apparently.

I expect more from our eeevil overlords.

And Prof. Althouse, I will endeavor to be an 'it-getter' at all times, it's my pledge to you, even if your entreaty wasn't to me specifically.

Pastor_Jeff said...

I'm late to the party and not properly dressed for swamp-diving, so I was pleasantly surprised to discover not one but two wonderful inventions:

"Be an it-getter!"

"Filibusteristically futile!"

2006 is off to a good start.

vw: bjiibar. That old TV show with Greg Evigan and Claude Akins?

Semanticleo said...

"I regard myself as a social liberal, an economic conservative, and a national security hawk"

RogerA;

Where do you stand on the rule of law?
Do you stand with the host of this site who says, basically, Bush can
do whatever TFHWants?

Make sure you tune into the NSA hearings next week. I've a feeling
all you moderates are gonna have an
eye and an earfull. I'll be back
to test the puddle temp in the middle of the road. Look for me.
That is, if Althouse doesn't purge
me on her personal pogrom again.

HaloJonesFan said...

Semanticleo is
posting like
e.
e.cummings
with a computer
key
board