९ फेब्रुवारी, २०२५
"Yesterday, I was told that there are currently over $100B/year of entitlements payments to individuals with no SSN or even a temporary ID number."
"If accurate, this is extremely suspicious. When I asked if anyone at Treasury had a rough guess for what percentage of that number is unequivocal and obvious fraud, the consensus in the room was about half, so $50B/year or $1B/week!! This is utterly insane and must be addressed immediately."
पोस्ट्स
४४ टिप्पण्या:
I don't have Grok, but if I did, I would ask it if there are really 6.5 million "Americans" over the age of 112 receiving SS payments. It just can't be true. BTW, a lot of these "zones" where people live a super long time correspond with areas where pension fraud is a way of life.
Democrat-Soviet rage-filled response:
"Elon is a un-elected Nazi Fascist! Stop him!"
If true, this is a fundamental scandal of epic proportions. This is so big that the NYT and WaPo won’t be able to ignore it. I’m just waiting for some DC federal judge to issue a TRO ordering that the fraudulent checks to continue.
That's fine, but $50 billion a year is less than 1% of federal spending, so it's not really moving the needle. As they say, the real problem usually is not the illegal actions, but the legal ones.
"If accurate." Operative phrase. I am willing to believe the worst of the federal government and Dem machinations. I am hopeful that Elon et al. will carry out a thorough cleansing of the stables. But I also want to resist confirmation bias.
"I was told.."
" If accurate..."
" a rough guess...
X
"DOGE has forced democrats into the position of defending waste, fraud and abuse."
yep.
@Jaq: I asked Groc your question. Here is Groc’s answer:
“No, there are not 6.5 million Americans over 112 years old receiving Social Security (SS) payments. According to a 2015 report by the Social Security Administration's Inspector General, there were approximately 6.5 million Social Security numbers identified as belonging to individuals listed as 112 years or older. However, this does not mean these individuals are alive or currently receiving benefits.
The report highlighted that only 13 of these individuals were still receiving benefits at the time, with the vast majority of these numbers likely belonging to deceased individuals whose death was not properly recorded or updated in Social Security's records. This discrepancy arises from outdated records and the lack of death notifications for many of these Social Security numbers, which could lead to potential fraud or misuse of these numbers.
Therefore, the actual number of living Americans over 112 years old receiving Social Security payments is significantly less than 6.5 million, likely only in the single digits, given that only a handful of people worldwide are known to reach or exceed this age.”
“A billion here, a billion there, pretty soon it begins to add up to real money.”
This quip is universally ascribed to Senator Everett Dirksen (1896–1969), but in 1938 the New York Times printed: “Well, now, about this new budget. It’s a billion here and a billion there, and by and by it begins to mount up into money.”
I first recall the Hawaii Senator Daniel Inouye using this quip, but then again Dirkson and the 1938 times were before my time. Let's update this quip to "50 billion here and 50 billion there..." and I think the point is made that eliminating 1% to 2% of waste in agency budgets just a few times over results in actual budget reduction, a miracle of modern governance.
Sean, there is a constant mindset that it’s “less than 1% of the federal budget” and therefore not a big deal. This needs to stop.
That estimated fraudulent or wasteful spending in one area is more than the annual budget of Pennsylvania. For example. It’s huge.
The federal budget is likely 70% on solid ground. We shouldn’t be comparing fraud found against the entire US government expenditure but instead against the likely portion of fraud and waste.
This is a huge find and an easy loophole of fraud to close. Good for them. Celebrate it and encourage them
To keep going.
Elon Musk said...
To be clear, what the @DOGE team and @USTreasury have jointly agreed makes sense is the following: [inter alia]
- Require that all outgoing government payments have a payment categorization code, which is necessary in order to pass financial audits. This is frequently left blank, making audits almost impossible.
- All payments must also include a rationale for the payment in the comment field, which is currently left blank. Importantly, we are not yet applying ANY judgment to this rationale, but simply requiring that SOME attempt be made to explain the payment more than NOTHING!
LOL. If only Trump left the description field blank for the payments his organization made to Michael Cohen's law firm!
Then again, maybe it was better for Trump that Bragg chose to go down that tenuous prosecutorial rabbit hole as opposed to another?
Why can’t we just see a pre pardon for any and all crimes ral or imagined in the past present and future then let them go nuts?
Per Wince’s comment above, the judges order restricts access to Treasury payment systems to “ civil servants with a need for access to perform their job duties within the Bureau of Fiscal Services who have passed all background checks and security clearances and taken all information security training called for in federal statutes and Treasury Department regulations.”
Perhaps Bessent should enforce the order and shut down all Treasury payments until such civil servants have (1) had their duties reviewed and verified, (2) have their need to access the systems verified, (3) documented that their security clearances are updated and valid, and (4) documented that they have completed all required security training. Until such time, the civil servants will be placed on leave since they are unable to perform their work.
Maybe the judge will learn that running a government isn’t quite as easy as he thinks. Until now, inaction by Congress was needed to shut down the government. Now it seems any low level federal judge can do it on a whim.
Why did this go on from 2017-2021?
Sean said "...but $50 billion a year is less than 1% of federal spending, so it's not really moving the needle."
We know, this is one of the preferred talking points of the left. It's specious in the extreme. How much fraudulent activity are we supposed to turn a blind eye to? How much terrorist funding should we let go? How many NGOs dipping their beak in the money stream is too many? How many apartment buildings does TdA have to take over before we start worrying about it?
Answer: zero. You people are trying to get away with murder by degrees. We're going to root out every single instance of people ripping off the taxpayers.
“ Did anyone read yesterday's order as being this broad?”
Relax. A lot of people have been calling this a Preliminary Injunction (PI). It wasn’t. Rather, it’s a Temporary Restraining Order (TRO). They very often come first. Obligatory TRO Hearing is set for 2/14/25. TROs are often ex parte (single party). A hearing on the (PI) merits must be held fairly quickly (a week?), at which time it either expires or is turned into a PI. If it isn’t narrowed significantly, expect a quick emergency appeal and reversal.
The case is styled NY State, et al v Trump et al. My first question would be why these 14 states have standing to sue the Treasury over its internal management. Often, federal appeals courts defer to trial courts (like this one) on this issue. Not on this case, where the determination of standing does not depend on the trial court record. It’s almost entirely a legal, and not factual, question.
More importantly though (though the appeals courts may moot this by rejecting a PI on standing), is the issue of Executive Power, which is granted, in its entirety, to the President, in Art II, § 1, ¶ 1, Clause 1. The TRO effectively prevents the President from exercising his primary duty and power under the Constitution. Only government bureaucrats can review these records under the TRO. Nope. Not going to fly.
"This is so big that the NYT and WaPo won’t be able to ignore it."
OK- that's damn fine humor, right there.
That's fine, but $50 billion a year is less than 1% of federal spending, so it's not really moving the needle. As they say, the real problem usually is not the illegal actions, but the legal ones.
The fatuous nature of this argument has been set forth above. I want to point out that, in addition to the direct savings by not paying this stuff out, cutting off payments to those not entitled has significant downstream effects. For example, if you cut off illegals' access to EBT/social security/welfare, you significantly reduce incentives to come to or stay in America.
"That's fine, but $50 billion a year is less than 1% of federal spending, so it's not really moving the needle."
"It's not really that much."
Using that argument and recognizing that most people's taxes are not even a tiny fraction of $50 billion a year, why are those taxes being collected?
steps:
1) this is NOT EVEN happening! it is ALL a hoax!!
2) sure, this Might be happening.. But ONLY occasionally!
3) $50 billion a year is less than 1% of federal spending, so it's not really moving the needle.
4) it's GREAT that this is happening!
Thank you for grokking that for me.
"$50 billion a year is less than 1% of federal spending, so it's not really moving the needle"
What if hundreds of millions were spent on importing refugees from all over the world?
Doge is discovering fraud everywhere they look. Why didn’t the press discover this… ever? the press was/is on the take enough to cause even American oligarchs to question why and how did they miss this gravy train?
It’s becoming more apparent our government was a massive RICO enterprise. But Trump is the felon.
"That's fine, but $50 billion a year is less than 1% of federal spending, so it's not really moving the needle."
.....
"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."
Sean said "...but $50 billion a year is less than 1% of federal spending, so it's not really moving the needle."
How much is $50 billion? Well, if you gave $100,000 each to 500,000 people, or a million dollars each to 50,000 people, that’s $50 billion. Put another way, $50 billion represents all of the federal income taxes of millions of average taxpayers. I’m sure those people would think that all of their taxes went to fraud is a pretty big deal.
"That's fine, but $50 billion a year is less than 1% of federal spending, so it's not really moving the needle."
It’s way more than $50 billion.
"That's fine, but $50 billion a year is less than 1% of federal spending, so it's not really moving the needle."
Well, good then. Nobody should have an issue with cutting it out, then.
Until now every thing was easy. But if Trump succeeds in reducing the defense budget and getting rid of the carried interest loophole, it would be a positive.
@Jaq: That's fine, but $50 billion a year is less than 1% of federal spending, so it's not really moving the needle.
Depends on which needle you are talking about. Credited instead to each of 160 million tax returns in 2024, that would be just over $300/return.
The comparison of wasteful spending needs to be compared to the spending deficit. How much debt could we avoid taking if we simply spent only the money we were required and intentionally wanted to spend?
So who is getting the other half? And how could it be legit if they have no ID #? Is it going to as assistance illegal aliens who recently arrived?
The problem will only be solved by aggregation of all the 1% waste scams. It's a web, not a blob.
We know, this is one of the preferred talking points of the left. It's specious in the extreme. How much fraudulent activity are we supposed to turn a blind eye to?
Use a sprat to catch a mackerel. Once people start getting in serious trouble for penny-ante graft, they'll squeal on the big fish.
Hillary Clinton does not inspire loyalty in anyone on the planet, only fear. Trump can arrange things so that the fear of going to Federal prison for ten years and being stripped of everything one owns will outweigh the fear of an Arkancide at the hands of Hillary's henchmen. The witness protection program will be needed, of course.
Then again, maybe it was better for Trump that Bragg chose to go down that tenuous prosecutorial rabbit hole as opposed to another?
At the margin, this flimsy Stalinist show trial and all the other specious, partisan, obviously corrupt Democrat lawfare probably got Trump re-elected.
I was already going to vote for him, of course, but the day he was convicted I maxed out my donation to his campaign. A lot of people who may have been on the fence probably felt the same way, and determined to cast their vote for Trump.
It was gratifying to see such evil machinations by the enemy terrorist traitor Democrat scum in our monster occupation government end in such a shocking denouement.
The consequences that are soon to befall Jack Smith, Garland, Fat Fani, Fat Tish, Fat Alvin, and all the other Chekist co-conspirators should be severe enough to make the enemy terrorist traitor Democrat scum refrain from partisan lawfare for the next hundred years. I wouldn't object if there were a hundred of them simultaneously hanged on one long gallows before a crowd on the Washington Mall, but I will settle for decades in prison and total pauperization of everyone involved.
"steps:
1) this is NOT EVEN happening! it is ALL a hoax!!
2) sure, this Might be happening.. But ONLY occasionally!
3) $50 billion a year is less than 1% of federal spending, so it's not really moving the needle.
4) it's GREAT that this is happening!"
Dont forget 5) You're weird and racist for complaining about it.
maybe it was better for Trump that Bragg chose to go down that tenuous prosecutorial rabbit hole as opposed to another?
Ah yes, the imaginary slam dunk case that Bragg passed up.
sean said...
“That's fine, but $50 billion a year is less than 1% of federal spending, so it's not really moving the needle.”
There are 340 million people in the US. There are just 17 who have a net worth more than that. And unlike net worth that’s $50 billion per year.
Joseph “sean” Stalin said...
Paying $7 for a dozen eggs is a tragedy, but wasting $50 billion per year is a statistic.
Dave Begley said...
“This is so big that the NYT and WaPo won’t be able to ignore it.”
REPUBLICANS POUNCE !!!!
Louie: "Perhaps Bessent should enforce the order and shut down all Treasury payments" A little malicious compliance goes a long way.
Why did this go on from 2017-2021?
I dunno. Maybe if you weren't trying to impeach the guy from Day One, he could've focused on issues like this.
It’s a racket and it’s been a racket for a good many years.
"Perhaps Bessent should enforce the order and shut down all Treasury payments"
Seems to me, if you were in charge of the Treasury and were restricted from confirming what payments were being sent from your department, the prudent course of action would be to shut everything down until you are able to once again review these transactions.
Anything less would be irresponsible, no?
I cry "baloney" on Musty's hyperbolic claims, unless he can document and verify every last bit of it. And about this dubious "DUJE." Is this department of the US Government an actual department, subject to oversights, audits, examination of their methods of investigation, key personnel within the department, etc., etc.?? I hold that it's phony, a make-believe "organ of government," an umbrella behind which Musty and his chosen staff can hide while sending out volleys of unexamined shit. (Dog knows Musty needs to have his shit examined. Trump is an easy case: an emotionally stunted old man, fat and resentful at being old, while emotionally and intellectually still a bullying, spiteful 13-year old.)
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