The NYT drums up sympathy for completely unsympathetic rich people who've been relying on illegal immigration to serve their various needs!
The rich are not the "They" in the headline, "They Help Make the Hamptons the Hamptons, and Now They’re Living in Fear/Latino immigrants care for some of America’s most lavish beachside mansions. Their disappearance would affect the wealthy, too."
Heavens! Affecting the wealthy too. Oh, my!
Maybe the NYT is mocking these people? Nope! The article is well larded with empathy for the migrants who face deportation, but the travails of the rich are presented soberly:
In the Hamptons, with its miles of privet hedges and luxury homes, Latino immigrants make up the bulk of the work force, logging 12-hour days flipping mattresses, scrubbing toilets and hanging drywall, and in the summer tending vineyards and assembling patio furniture under the hot sun....The disappearance of some of the Hamptons’ most vulnerable residents would have an immediate effect on some of the nation’s wealthiest.... Some of the wealthy are quietly beginning to make calculations about what it would mean if their undocumented workers were deported. Who would mow the lawn?
“Everyone relies on housekeepers and carpenters and tree cutters and grass cutters,” said Marit Molin, founder and executive director of Hamptons Community Outreach. “People come to the Hamptons to enjoy their houses, and who is going to take care of their houses?”
This is like that old Kelly Osbourne line: "If you kick every Latino out of this country then who is going to be cleaning your toilet, Donald Trump?"
You can guess from her tone that she's heard rich people saying essentially that when the cameras are off. She was dumb enough to imagine her wit would play well to the general public.
I went to Grok and asked: "I need some quotations from before the American Civil War showing slaveowners worrying about how they'd be able to take care of their house if they didn't have slaves."
The best it came up with was from a March 4, 1858 Senate speech from James Henry Hammond: "In all social systems there must be a class to do the menial duties, to perform the drudgery of life... It constitutes the very mud-sill of society and of political government; and you might as well attempt to build a house in the air, as to build either the one or the other, except on this mud-sill."
But Grok seemed reticent: "These quotations don’t always explicitly say, 'How will I clean my house without slaves?'—such blunt admissions were rare, as slaveowners preferred to cloak their dependence in economic or philosophical terms.... If you’d like, I can dig deeper into plantation records."
So I pushed: "Yes, I'd like something completely blunt and selfish — a slaveowner noting that the house is very large and elegant and insisting that slaves were needed because of the house."
With that, I got 2 quotes. First, Sarah Hicks Williams, Letter to Her Parents (October 1853):
"This is a great big house & I don’t know what I should do without the negroes to keep it—there are so many rooms & such quantities of furniture to be attended to—I never saw such a place for needing constant care—& then the washing & ironing & cooking for so many—it’s a mercy I have them to do it all."
Second, Eliza Lucas Pinckney, Letter to a Friend (circa 1740s):
"I have the business of 3 plantations to transact, which requires much writing and more business and fatigue of other sorts than you can imagine—but I will not live without my negroes—my house is large, and you know it takes a vast deal of pains to keep such a one in order, and I assure you I am not idle."
I'll bet those Hamptons people are idle. And I think they are breaking the law when they hire those who are not in the country legally. I don't believe they enslave their workers, but do they exploit them? The workers don't want to leave, and that's the main point of the article. I tried to get Grok to make fun of the Times by writing a piece about Sarah Hicks Williams's great big house in the style of that Hamptons article, but I couldn't get it right. The rich of the Hamptons are not slaveowners, but are they not obtuse and entitled? It's hard to give up something you like.
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७२ टिप्पण्या:
Please, someone, send this article to Trump and Homan!
Who's cleaning the toilets in Martha's Vineyard? After the dreamers were deported.
They’re certainly exploiters. They’re criminals if they aren’t paying overtime, minimum wage, and FICA that they should. They should be posting any mandated notices regarding employment law in an employer common area, etc.
Maybe the Hamptonites should pay an immigration levy for their workers. Mexico charges us just for visiting.
Grok says,
Mexico plans to charge cruise ship passengers a fee of $42 USD per person for docking at its ports. This immigration levy, approved by the Mexican Congress, was initially set to begin on January 1, 2025, but has been postponed to July 1, 2025, following pushback from the cruise industry. The fee applies to all passengers on a cruise ship, regardless of whether they disembark, ending a previous exemption for those considered "in transit."
-How It Will Be Spent
The Mexican Congress has specified that two-thirds of the revenue from this fee—labeled an immigration levy—will go to the Mexican army, with the remaining one-third presumably handled by the National Immigration Institute (INM) or other government entities, though details on the latter are less clear.
- **Army Allocation (Two-Thirds)**:
If we take the half-year estimate of $210 million, two-thirds is about $140 million for the army in 2025. For a full year at $420 million, it’s $280 million. Critics, including tourism groups, have pointed out that this money isn’t earmarked for port improvements or tourism infrastructure, which could mitigate industry backlash. Instead, it’s likely to bolster military budgets or pet projects, though no specific breakdown (e.g., equipment, personnel, construction) has been publicly detailed beyond the broad allocation.
Industry experts suggest Mexico’s cruise market is dominated by Americans, with estimates often ranging from 70% to 80%. If 10 million passengers arrive in 2025, roughly 5 million will face the fee post-July. With 75% being American, that’s 3.75 million U.S. passengers paying it.
- **Half-Year Spending**: 3.75 million Americans × $42 = $157.5 million USD.
- **Full-Year Equivalent**: If the fee applied all year, 7.5 million Americans × $42 = $315 million USD.
This cash mostly benefits the Mexican army (two-thirds, or $105 million of the half-year haul), not tourism infrastructure, which has cruise lines and local businesses grumbling.
What the wealthy Hamptonians are doing, by employing illegal migrants, is also illegal. Oh, well, pace Leona Helmsley, "Laws are for the little people."
Mid-19th century Southern gentry knew that if worse came to worst, there would still be lots of former slaves looking for work, some of whom they already knew quite well. The Hampton's gentry fear their illegal domestics won't be around any more, and the working class folks within driving distance of their mansions (a) wouldn't be enough, and (b) would be frightfully expensive, once supply and demand came into balance. Horrid!
Realistically, it's unlikely that a large percentage of otherwise law-abiding illegal immigrants will be deported, so the maid-and-gardener apocalypse might not be as severe as the Hamptonians fear. As Trump would probably say, we'll just have to see what happens!
Prior to crook joe and his Soros paid mob handlers letting in millions of illegals and transporting them on midnight plane rides to fill New York hotels /us city hotels… our expense… how did these precious leftist Uber wealthy hamptonites manage? Didn’t they already have maids and servants?
No mention of the underlying bigotry of elite whites hiring poor Latinos either…
…the professional golfer Lee Trevino used to tell a story: with Mexican ancestry he experienced but overcame much discrimination in golf to be a success. Still, he enjoyed chores at his tony home in Texas, including maintaining his own lawn. One day he was spotted on his mower by an unknowing woman, who rolled down her car window to inquire how much he charged. “The woman in this house lets me sleep with her!” he replied. Car window quietly rolls up…
Martha’s Vineyard wasted no time expelling the undesirables in their white left midst. They must be secure in their Maid’s services and berry picking for smoothies needs
I am given to understand that there will presently be a supply of workers coming available. Something about a program from the Federal Government - perhaps 'learning to landscape' would be easier than producing weekly progress bullet points, eh?
Sarah Hicks Williams' situation of dependency on household help isn't different at all from the situation of the aristocracy and well off merchant class in England at the time - - it's just that in England they didn't enslave their help.
The democrat soviets need an imported slave class to work on the cheap … and dutifully vote for their white left democrat masters.
Work opportunity for those soon to be unemployed federal workers
.....and anyway, how is it possible that all of those Hamptons upper-crust homeowners haven't already arranged for their illegal immigrant workers to be supplied with immigration legal services so that they can get their Green Card? If I could do it, why haven't they? Terribly classist of them...
I could be wrong, perhaps there are rooms set aside on the properties, but I think these workers don't actually live in The Hamptons, they drive, bus or walk in from other, less salubrious places where they necessarily have to reside. Unless they're living 50 to a mansion or something. (Hmmm...there's an idea...).
I wonder if this article would have been published if the workers were primarily African-American and not Hispanic or some other ethnicity. And is that some kind of progress?
There's going to be plenty of former federal employees looking for jobs so I see a solution at hand. Of course they may be less reticent in demanding decent wages and benefits.
well, here is a Modest Proposal for the Hamptons
[note: i'm NOT Necessarily advocating this, just proposing it]
WHAT IF:
we round up All those Hampton rich people..
and turn them into plant food? along with ALL their heirs ?
the guy sure looks like plant food to me
I hear Jack Hartounian is hiring also.
Not anti immigrant. Anti illegal immigrant. We must be a nation of laws.
Lawless above the law Biden and his cabal of liars must be cut off from ruining our nation.
Frankly, Scarlett, I don’t give a damn
"Just at this point some well-meaning soul is going to say, Why not do without servants altogether if the matter creates such unbearable tension and one truly believes in equality? Well, even to raise the question is to reveal the most fundamental ignorance of life in the great co-ops and townhouses of the East Side in the age of Radical Chic... But even that does not say it all. It makes it sound like a matter of convenience, when actually it is a sheer and fundamental matter of-- having servants. Does one comprehend?"
"Who's gonna clean your toilet, Donald Trump?"
Well, Ms. Osbourne, you could try doing it yourself.
Mr. Dooley says: "Th’ newspaper does ivrything f’r us. It runs th’ polis foorce an’ th’ banks, commands th’ milishy, conthrols th’ ligislachure, baptizes th’ young, marries th’ foolish, comforts th’ afflicted, afflicts th’ comfortable...."
"But Grok seemed reticent"
I have noticed on several occasions that Grok seemed to assume my motive in asking a question and presented arguments in opposition to that assumed motive.
or you could hire legal workers, thats just a crazy thought,
If a labor shortage in the Hamptons becomes a crisis, Trump could issue an executive order allowing Hamas refugees to work in that location only.
I thought the classic lament was "if we free the slaves, who will pick the cotton?"
The residents of the Hamptons need to google "maid services for homes near me". They will find legal, legitimate, tax and FICA paying businesses but it might cost a few dollars more from their trust funds. Then do the same for gardening services and contractors - it's easy and it's what a lot of people do.
Makes me glad I’m not rich. The problems they have to endure.
"Realistically, it's unlikely that a large percentage of otherwise law-abiding illegal immigrants will be deported, so the maid-and-gardener apocalypse might not be as severe as the Hamptonians fear. "
I imagine the crackdown will take the form of aggressively prosecuting homeowners who employ illegals.
'Illegals sent packing, rich people hardest hit' is not a headline I thought I would see. If the rich are complaining about this, then we should accelerate the deportations and force the useless rich people to hire citizens or legal residents. Make them sweat a lot.
The mistake Ron DeSantis made was not telling the Vineyarders that he was sending them domestic servants and yard workers.
Aggie said...
.....and anyway, how is it possible that all of those Hamptons upper-crust homeowners haven't already arranged for their illegal immigrant workers to be supplied with immigration legal services so that they can get their Green Card?
Because if they get their Green Card, the workers will no longer accept slave wages.
"These quotations don’t always explicitly say, 'How will I clean my house without slaves?'—such blunt admissions were rare, as slaveowners preferred to cloak their dependence in economic or philosophical terms..."
The lands west of the Appalachians went from forested Indian country to -- in some cases -- fabulously wealthy plantation land. Plantation owners and their wives might talk about the great challenges involved in running a plantation or a mansion, but they were unlikely to admit that they were dependent on their slaves. They prided themselves on their independence and self-reliance in making the land civilized and prosperous. As Grok noted, in defending slavery they were more likely to speak in general or philosophical terms, referring to slavery as the basis for civilization, especially in subtropical climates.
Heavens! Affecting the wealthy too. Oh, my!
Well, in America, they are the one's who really suffer....
But Grok seemed reticent...
It wouldn't have bolstered you point, but you would have been better off asking for antebellum quotes on "who will pick the crops". Most plantation homes were large houses but not on the scale of those the "Robber Barons" built during the Gilded Age and did not require large staffs.
"Who's gonna clean your toilet, Donald Trump?"
You know, somebody may actually have to put that on a bullet point Monday as one of their accomplishments for their week in the White House.
And remember, it's the working and middle classes mostly sustaining these illegals. Most of the services they use come from payroll taxes and property taxes. Medicaid, food stamps, school districts that likely are not in the Hamptons, ESL aides in those schools, emergency rooms and health clinics. We pay our payroll taxes; the rich don't pay their maids' FICA, legal blue collar and construction and lawn care owners can't compete with illegals or are forced to hire them to compete. So we pay and the rich get slave labor while we support their slaves.
Weird.
Last night I went to a performance here in town of the Sarasota Orchestra- a very high quality orchestra for a medium sized town such as ours. One of the pieces last night was a unique piece- Concerto for Saxophone & Orchestra, by Billy Childs, featuring soloist Steven Banks. It's a tonal poem, telling the story of the African diaspora: from Africa, through the middle passage, to creating communities again in America. It was quite beautiful and moving and I would encourage any of you to catch Mr. Banks performing this if you can as he may come around. He is a stunningly wonderful saxophonist and it is a beautiful piece.
The conductor encouraged us to experience the journey of Africans through their struggle as we listened. I did. I tried to consider what it must have been like to be there living your life, then taken, then below deck of a ship in stormy seas, ripped apart from your wife, your children, family, friends, all the life you knew. And IF you survived, you were beaten into slavery.
I tried to feel what they felt. But it's hard to feel what that was like. Its the same with Jewish families in Germany or Poland, or anywhere in Europe during Hitler's times. One day you're a part of the community, raising your family, the next day you're in a cattle car, slowing moving to a labor camp where you will go to die. I've tried to imagine that that was like.
It's hard to imagine.
And now, less than 24 hours after listening to the beautiful concerto, I'm asked by the NY Times to imagine what the homeowners in The Hamptons must be going through.
In all my life, in all the times I may have made comments about the New York Times and their seeming narrow view of the world, it really doesn't do it justice. They are awful. Blank. They are an example of Corporate Obtuseness.
I'll bet those Hamptons people are idle. And I think they are breaking the law when they hire those who are not in the country legally.
You know I hate the rich more than most people on this site (who only hate rich people who disagree with them), but to contend they are idle is just a ridiculous ad hominem attack.
I'm sure that those who have summer homes in the Hamptons have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems to the Hamptons from NYC. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.
What if I had to pay a fair wage for the skills, overtime, and benefits to the guys working in the barn taking care of my polo ponies!?!
It's unsupportable!
Watch a movie from the seventies, or sixties, for example, and look at the level of lawn and landscaping maintenance done on public buildings. It's way less. We got along; it was fine.
You know what else they bring, Freder? Even the law abiding, hard working ones? Ok, especially those. Wage competition, competition for apartments. The owning classes are the primary beneficiaries of unbridled immigration, those owning apartment buildings who see rents forced up, those hiring workers who see wages forced down.
This used to be an issue that Michael Moore style socialists cared about, you know, the economic externalities of high immigration and how they impact working people, but the Democrats today really don't like working people, and working people have figured that out, including black and Hispanic ones.
"I tried to consider what it must have been like to be there living your life, then taken, then below deck of a ship in stormy seas, ripped apart from your wife, your children, family, friends, all the life you knew."
That's not a very good description of the typical path followed by those sold into slavery.
Another point of view.
Wage competition, competition for apartments. The owning classes are the primary beneficiaries of unbridled immigration, those owning apartment buildings who see rents forced up, those hiring workers who see wages forced down.
Your concern about the plight of the working poor is touching. Get back to me when you are ready to fight for a living minimum wage.
So we pay and the rich get slave labor while we support their slaves.
And what is the current minimum wage in Georgia? And I bet you are allied with people who fight tooth and nail to keep it at $7.25 (or hell, even would like to get rid of it completely)
I was brought to tears this morning reading about a probationary employee stationed at Yosemite NP, who had been let go recently and now Yosemite NP is on the verge of collapse.
As a comparison, California, the 5th largest economy in the world which just a few years ago had a $100 billion surplus, cannot manage to keep the highway rest-stops open, most seem to be in a black hole of "maintenance"
And what is the current minimum wage in Georgia? And I bet you are allied with people who fight tooth and nail to keep it at $7.25 (or hell, even would like to get rid of it completely)
The value of labor is only as much as it is worth to the employer. It has nothing to do with what the service provider needs as long as the service provider elects to do the work. No employer of mine has ever paid me an amount below that which I need...because I do not accept that job.
- Krumhorn
So the Hampton swells think this is about DJT deporting their servants in order to get at THEM? These people rival the flat-earth believers for utter obliviousness.
Freder-
What is the point of having a living minimum wage if you are going to import illegal labor who are willing to take less than that wage?
You don't have to pay that nice Venezuelan lady who is working twelve hours a day overtime. You don't have to give her medical benefits even though she works more than 32 hours. You don't have to pay the government FICA-that saves you money and the pain of dealing with the government.
Demanding a living wage addresses none of these issues.
This is supposed to be news? Remember the nominations of Zoe Baird and Kimba Wood in the early ‘90’s, when it became obvious the the country’s professional class relied on illegal immigrants and other off-the-books labor to sustain their life style? And, of course, it was worst that those two. If you were part of the part of the legal profession now known as “Big Law” it was common knowledge that Hillary’s minions were beating the bushes for an upmarket woman lawyer who could meet the Zoe Baird test. There were no takers and they settled for an obscure spinster from a Florida swamp.
“Unfortunately, the real minimum wage is always zero, regardless of the laws, and that is the wage that many workers receive in the wake of the creation or escalation of a government-mandated minimum wage, because they lose their jobs or fail to find jobs when they enter the labor force. Making it illegal to pay less than a given amount does not make a worker’s productivity worth that amount—and, if it is not, that worker is unlikely to be employed.”
― Thomas Sowell, Basic Economics: A Citizen's Guide to the Economy
Whoa, who let Thomas Sowell into the discussion? I thought we were talking about feeeeeeelings!
I remember another minimum wage quote, the source of which I absolutely cannot remember, that went something like this: "The true minimum wage is, of course, zero -- which the government is powerless to raise but it can certainly increase the number of people who receive it."
Rabel,
"That's not a very good description of the typical path followed by those sold into slavery."
Go on; say more.
The Democrats haven't been this upset with Republicans since we freed their slaves ... the first time.
Slaveholders at least had to provide room and board and health care to their slaves. The folks in the Hamptons just pay the going rate for illegal labor (whether or not it affords rent and food and healthcare). New York and other sanctuary state taxpayers pick up housing, food and medical care costs, which helps to keep illegal labor costs to the Hamptons low.
Demanding a living wage addresses none of these issues.
Of course it does. Even if the employees are undocumented you are still required to pay minimum wage in most cases (there were blatantly racist exceptions for farmworkers and domestic help in the original minimum wage laws, much of it rectified over the years, but still persisting in certain industries). If you are not paying minimum wages (or overtime, workers' comp, FICA, or stealing wages, etc.) you are also breaking the law, and those are a lot easier to prove than knowingly employing undocumented workers. Current minimum wage in the Hamptons is $16.50 (15.50 outside the NYC metro area and Long Island)
"Even if the employees are undocumented you are still required to pay minimum wage in most cases..."
Yeah, in theory. But the reality is often different, and what we are talking about anyway is forcing wages towards the minimum wage due to wage competition from millions of migrants.
This is on top of forcing rents up.
"Your concern about the plight of the working poor is touching."
So basically I am right, but I am icky. Even though my argument is logical and actually comports with Joe Biden's arguments for bringing in all of the migrant labor, his people explained that the purpose was to "break the wage-price spiral" and so "fight inflation through lower wages," including those paid to working Americans, well Joe Biden cared about people, so. it really didn't matter how much harm he did to the economic prospects of the working class.
I grew up very poor, eating government cheese, powdered eggs, USDA canned chicken (actually pretty good), and we sat around the dinner table on homemade furniture, so go ahead and tell me that I don't have sympathy for the working poor, but it's a lie, an offensive lie.
The NYT inadvertently provides support for Trump’s program of deporting the “undocumented.”
Freder-
You said upthread- "I'm sure that those who have summer homes in the Hamptons have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems to the Hamptons from NYC. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."
Mybe the few good people are obeying the law. But I am sure that since the bulk of them are druggies, criminals, and rapists, they aren't going to put up with the hassle of complying with employment law.
"Go on; say more."
OK. Most were already captives held by the locals. They were ripped from their happy homes and families well before they were sold and put aboard the slave ships.
Temujin's post compresses this and implies a version of history that may be comforting for one wishing to blame all the world's woes on the European white man, but is inaccurate.
Freder would be willing to work for a living, if only the minimum wage were higher.
Temujin has a rich fantasy life.
"well larded" could start an entirely new topic for discussion. Ann, I suggest this be a new tag for you.
Even if the employees are undocumented you are still required to pay minimum wage in most cases
Do you know what “undocumented” means? No documents. No document of who they are. No document of where they have been. No document of the work they have done. No evidence that anyone owes them any wages.
I'm always astounded how fucking cheap some Rich people are. If you have 10 million dollars, why do you need a "cheap" maid and butler, Why not just pay a nice salary and get a legal resident?
Remember zoe baird? She and her husband were pulling down 300K each in the early 90s. But she was so Goddamn cheap she wouldn't even pay her Nanny's social security payroll taxes! That's why she had an illegal.
As for the Labor Unions, they're the biggest fakes around. Wankning on about the "Minimum Wage" while Businesses hire illegals who undercut everyone's wages.
Teenagers used to do most of the jobs illegals do now. And they'd do them again, if they had to.
Call the lobbyist for Grey Poupon.
Forty five years ago my father was in NYC on business with some other NASA folks. They had a day off, and thought it might be amusing to drive out to the end of Long Island. Keep in mind, these were all middle age ex-military pilots. As they got out into the Hamptons, they were accosted by private security, patrolling the roads. The PUBLIC roads. They were asked what their business was, and it was strongly suggested that they do their sightseeing elsewhere. These security folks were armed, openly.
My father's party retreated.
Fuck those people.
A short lesson for our little Freder.
Labor is a commodity. It is only value is what it can provide the employer. Unskilled labor has very little value other than a warm body and a pair of hands. The more skills labor can acquire the more value it holds for the employer and the more mobile labor can become.
Labor cannot create wealth it can add value to it in relationship to the skills labor provides.
Just because you have a warm body and a pair of hands and have mastered the fry machine doesn't mean you're worth $25.00 an hour.
For about two years, in the aftermath of Tienanmen Square, I had a live-in nanny in the form of a retired Chinese English prof from Beijing University. She wanted to eventually get a green card, so I did the whole "domestic employer" schtick with all the paperwork.
One year, I filed NINETEEN tax returns. Its no fucking wonder people don't hire immigrants above the table - its basically impossible for an individual to do that.
They can, of course, obtain legal workers. It will be more expensive. Not least because undocumented workers simply go to the ER for free health care. Socializing the cost of cheaper household labor should not be something that rich people may do with impunity.
It is not true that there are jobs that American citizens won't do. It is true that many lawn services and cleaning firms have found that they can't compete with firms employing illegals. It is also true that there are hidden costs to this which the entire country pays.
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