Writes Isaac Chotiner in "Ross Douthat’s Theories of Persuasion/At a time of distrust and polarization, the conservative Times columnist seeks to bridge the worlds of the Christian right and the secular left" (The New Yorker).
Douthat’s obvious disgust at Trump’s character comes through frequently in his column, but it exists alongside a desire to understand Trump’s appeal....
Moyn = "leftist historian Samuel Moyn, who co-teaches a class with Douthat at Yale called 'The Crisis of Liberalism.'"Douthat is comfortable being a “conservative whisperer” to liberals, as Moyn put it. Telling harsh truths to his fellow-conservatives is sometimes more difficult for him, in part because of his tendency to attribute right-wing paranoia to liberal missteps. Moyn told me, “His role is in part the apologist and rationalizer of the actually existing right, even as he idealizes a version of it that he would rather have.”
Michael Brendan Dougherty, a National Review columnist and a friend of Douthat’s, said that he and Douthat both see Trump as “this bad character.” But he also relayed a phone conversation that they had on Election Night, 2020: “Ross feels the genuine conservative Schadenfreude at liberal overreach and failure. During the early returns, the needle at the New York Times was bouncing all over the place. There was a genuine, Oh, my God, is it happening again? He was just laughing at our fate—possibly to be stuck with Trump again—but also at the potential failure of conventional wisdom.”
To Douthat, a second Trump term is not the worst-case scenario. He told me, “People organize themselves around dystopian fears to a deep extent, right? If your primary dystopia is a kind of fascist authoritarianism, you’re going to end up in a different alignment versus if your fundamental dystopia is something closer to Huxley’s ‘Brave New World.’ ”
पोस्ट्स
५० टिप्पण्या:
"the conservative Times columnist"
Ross Asshat is a conservative the way David Brooks is a populist.
--- Moyn = "leftist historian Samuel Moyn, who co-teaches a class with Douthat at Yale called 'The Crisis of Liberalism.'"
So it really is just performance with them. I would not be co-teaching a class with Nancy Pelosi. Even though she has asked me repeatedly.
Douthat was always the poor man's Jody Bottum.
Is this an effort to rescue Douthat’s reputation? It’s hard to tell how liberals will take it.
”Douthat’s popularity among Times readers and progressives can be explained by his long-standing critique of the Republican Party.”
Well, yeah. That part’s easier to understand. Liberals love to keep a few house conservatives around to tell them sweet lies about how they’re right to hate and disrespect conservatives.
Douthat is comfortable being a “conservative whisperer” to liberals, as Moyn put it.
A regular Margaret Mead, he is...
Telling harsh truths to his fellow-conservatives is sometimes more difficult for him
It's okay. We don't listen to him anyways...
NO "liberal" Times reader wants to hear that he actually holds views
Ignorance is "liberal" bliss
I take it from this that according to Douthat, the left's "primary dystopia is a kind of fascist authoritarianism," whereas the right's primary dystopia is "Huxley's Brave New World." Do I have that right?
If so, that would make me a leftist, which I am not. I believe the threat of (a sort of Americanized) "fascist authoritarianism" is real, but that it is coming from the left now, not the Trump right. Fascism means the fusion of corporate and public power in the famous Mussolini formula - "everything in the state, nothing outside the state." What "Missouri v. Biden" is demonstrating is the degree to which the LEFTISTS of the state have pushed to fuse corporate power (social media companies) and public power (FBI, CDC, etc.) in order to suppress basic speech and press freedom.
Trump and his followers are not fascists. He is a disordered personality, for sure, but that very disorder renders him incapable of even imagining, let alone pulling off, a fascist reorganization of power. In fact, it was the fiasco of Jan. 6 itself that should make that comically clear.
Why are we —and NYT readers— being forced to endure this? Bad enough that Douthat is paid to dispense his drivel; but now we have to watch this ugly effort to explain and rehabilitate him?
Jon Burack @ 6:47: well said.
The left are so uniform in their views, many assume the right must be the same way and they are told by their media sources to assume the worst.
In fact, the right is very pluralistic.
The left make it easy for the Party to police their views and the expression of their views and to get them all into line.
On the right, it's virtually impossible. Just ask the GOP establishment. They're extremely frustrated. Right wingers are forever quarreling over doctrine and going off to start their own churches, so to speak.
That's why the Dems have one candidate and the Republicans have a bunch, some of whom aren't even Republicans.
Which looks more like democracy and which like facism?
Thank you, Jon Burak, for putting into words what my gut was feeling about the left.
That limousine commie Chotiner is not worth a moment's consideration.
Please observe my labels, and adore them.
"Douthat is comfortable being a “conservative whisperer” to liberals"
Articles like this always remind me of Jonah Goldberg's take on how liberals/leftist think about conservatives.
Conservatives in the Mist.
"whenever I read liberals reporting about the goings-on of conservatives I always get the nature-documentary vibe. A liberal reporter puts on his or her Dian Fossey hat in order to attempt to write another installment of Conservatives in the Mist."
So, an asserted Life-long Republican who specializes in criticizing Republicans and who aligns himself with leftists on most if not all issues? Good thing we don't have any commenters that deceitful here, eh?
"If your primary dystopia is a kind of fascist authoritarianism"
Jon covered it, but it is still puzzling that Douthat would even say it. The left loves fascist authoritarianism--as long as they are in control. Examples: the covidian regime in blue states and the forced green transition. Another tell is the left approach to family life: the imposition of trans ideology in public schools over the objection of parents, and then persecuting parents who dare to object. They mean to squash all opposition, so that all fasces fit in the same quiver and point in the same direction, to be used on prog authority only.
Douthat's predicament is the predicament of the literally millions of lawyers, doctors, teachers, executives and others who lean right, but have to navigate public and private institutions that are rapidly calcifying into left wing political action tools.
It's much easier to be candid on a message board that provides a degree of anonymity than it is in a context in which one's livelihood is at stake. The fascism descending upon us is a fascism of the left. The sense of compulsion is tacit and soft, but comprehensive.
I'm certain Biden is a bad character.
Strange how there is no hyper-obsession over Biden... well not even close. the opposite.
Crook liar Joe gets a free pass on all of his corruption. because trump sucks all the air out of their brains.
The Nazis must have also enjoyed keeping a few Frenchmen around to tell them how much better off they are with Paris occupied.
Ampersand, ding ding ding - and compassion and what our host has called civility bullshit have led them to this pass. A failure to take a contrary or even questioning position when the stakes were lower has led to the present moment, when now these reasonable and kind doctors, lawyers, professors, and others have to decide if they can afford to speak up.
I'm not blaming them. I am fortunate to have no stakes at all any more, and I definitely wasn't prescient enough to see where all this was going and how fast - I left paid work for nice personal reasons before things got very far down this path. But here we are.
Jon Burack nails it.
The corrupt American democrat power-elite left are actual fascists. by definition.
No amount of shrieking and lying from the collective BS left will change that fact.
Liberals love to keep a few house conservatives around to tell them sweet lies about how they’re right to hate and disrespect conservatives.
To be fair, I enjoy reading Matt Taibbi and Jonathan Turley and, these days, Rey Texiera and the like, and not just to inform myself - also because it's admittedly fun to see the other side hoist on its own petard. But I'm not in it to hate the other side. I just don't understand how the other side can continue to believe the things it does, and I keep hoping that more and more will reach the conclusions that I reached back in college.
Douthat is a tool for the Uniparty. He is no way a conservative, a Republican or anything but an amoral scribbler of drivel. He just wants an outsized paycheck and to go to dinner parties in NYC. I highly recommend Salena Zito, Ruy Texiara and Matt Tabbi for their takes on this political season.
If I had to choose between NYT conservatives, I’d definitely pick Douthat over David French. French much prefers criticizing conservatives to liberals.
The corrupt left are using legal-warfare on Trump's team because.... wait for it...
they agreed with him.. in other words - speech.
Is that fascism? totalitarianism? Maoism? Castro-ism? mixed toxic cocktail.
Key phrase: "... his tendency to attribute right-wing paranoia to liberal missteps."
Right-wing paranoia = noticing what is going on and saying so. Liberal missteps = the relentless Gramscian march toward Marxism.
I just don't understand how the other side can continue to believe the things it does, and I keep hoping that more and more will reach the conclusions that I reached back in college.
Imagine being a Progressive mother today. (ridiculous I know) You've just allowed your son to transition to being a faux female.
Is there any argument that can be given to you that would change your mind? Because to change your mind would mean that you were a monster who allowed your son to be mutilated in service to a failed ideology.
The Left have gone so far at this point that people are simply unable or unwilling to deal with cognitive dissonance of any kind, which is partly why media has become so fragmented. It's also why the normal Lefty retort is "Shut Up!".
The corrupt American democrat power-elite left are actual fascists. by definition.
They're also racists.
"Telling harsh truths to his fellow-conservatives is sometimes more difficult for him...."
This is the NYT/progressive/journalist bubble talking. This nerd, and perhaps Douthat, actually come from the perspective that conservatives read the NYT, read Douthat and might consider his stuff to be "harsh truths."
The progressives who do read the NYT, like these nerds, and perhaps, Douthat, move farther and farther away from reality and their fellow citizens who are still sane.
@Jamie
I just don't understand how the other side can continue to believe the things it does...
They believe it because trusted sources tell them it is true and that the other side is racist/fascist/etc. and so no idea that comes from the right can be good.
They believe in the goodness of their hearts, and that the other side is evil. Thus, when their side wants something and the motivation is "for a good cause" then to oppose it is to oppose goodness. And since the other side ALWAYS opposes the good things the left wants, it is clear that they are evil. When you start with that premise, no amount of logic or persuasion will work.
I can't add much that wasn't written by Jon Burack and Ampersand above. Douthat is more interesting to me than his similarly positioned colleague, David Brooks. At least with Douthat, I think many of his conservative opinions, when has had the courage to voice them, are authentic ones. However, what he does isn't courageous or informative for the leftist readers of the execrable NYTimes. He never takes a hard position vs the Left, ever, and the reason is obvious- he isn't paid to do so by the newspaper. In short, I view him, Brooks, and Bedbug as beards that allow the NYTimes fake a measure of neutrality. In other words, they are whores of a different color in the stables at the NYTimes.
Sane liberals on online walk that tightrope all the time.
Out of curiosity I checked r/SaneLiberals does not exist.
There must be some insight there, I need to ponder.
Kylos,
Really???
If *I* had to choose between NYT conservatives, I would take a vow of media celibacy instead.
"If your primary dystopia is a kind of fascist authoritarianism ...".
Actually, their primary utopia is a kind of fascist authoritarianism. The American Left is pining for the Gulags.
The thing is fascism has always been a product of the progressive era. Why is this anything new?
The thing is fascism has always been a product of the progressive era. It is based on social Darwinism which was allegedly based on "the science". Why is this anything new?
(actually, that is pretty much what I have done, except I have this thing going on the side with quite a large group of exotics like Taibbi, Greenwald, Turley, etc.)
Ross Doughnut serves 4 functions for the NYT's:
1) It allows the NYT's to say "We're not a leftwing echo chamber, why we have Ultra-Rightwing Ross Doughnut"
2) It helps them when they want to attack Republicans and other Conservatives. "See how bad Trump (or any R) is? Even Rightwing Ross doughnut thinks so!"
3) Ross Doughnut is the controlled oppositon and never goes agains the Left on anything they deem important. He helps them push certain issues. Or bury certain issues. Want Amnesty for illegals or open borders? Want Trump impeached? Well Ross is there to give you the "Conservative case for..."
4) Finally, Ross helps keep the leftwing crazies in their place. He can attack AOC or those who want socialism or whatever, so the moderate Leftists don't have to.
The best way to look at Ross Doughnut, is he's NOT a Rightwinger. He's the washington Generals - he's playing a part.
The problem with the Rightwing pundits is they always love to attack Right. They want to be friends with those on their left.
Strangely, the Leftwing pundits believe the same thing.
So you'll have Lefties taking shots at poor, pathetic Ross Doughnut. But Ross never fires back. he only wants to attack Trump or Ted Cruz or whoever the NYT's current villian is.
Douthat = Doofus.
"He is a disordered personality, for sure, but that very disorder renders him incapable of even imagining, let alone pulling off, a fascist reorganization of power."
Possibly that or possibly the fact that he has no interest in or intention of doing so as it would be at odds with his basic belief in personal freedom.
Blogger Jamie said..."I just don't understand how the other side can continue to believe the things it does, and I keep hoping that more and more will reach the conclusions that I reached back in college."
Describes me 5-10 years ago. I still don't understand (baffled is a better description) but I have given up hope.
Blogger Wa St Blogger said..."They believe it because trusted sources tell them it is true and that the other side is racist/fascist/etc. and so no idea that comes from the right can be good."
I have come to believe that the media is responsible for so much of what is wrong with our country.
Imagine being a Progressive mother today. (ridiculous I know) You've just allowed your son to transition to being a faux female.
Is there any argument that can be given to you that would change your mind? Because to change your mind would mean that you were a monster who allowed your son to be mutilated in service to a failed ideology.
In my outer circle of friends are one couple and one single mother in this situation. The couple's child transitioned at 14 - not sure how much of a transition at that point, socially vs medically - and is now 21 and studying public policy and gender studies. The single mom has a teen and a preteen who are both now "masculine," in her word. None of these young people displayed gender dysphoria as small children. All three are on the autism spectrum and/or have ADHD. The younger sibling did not become trans until the older sibling had come out publicly.
These parents, no matter how far their kids go down this path, are going to have to contend for the rest of their lives with their uncritical acceptance that a therapist's job, a school's job, a parent's job is to do nothing but affirm what a kid says, in this regard alone. If they're honest with themselves, one day they'll have to face up to the fact that their 11- or 12- or 14-year-old wanted to start down a road that leads to medicalization for the rest of their lives, probable sterility, and incredible challenges in navigating work and relationships, and they, the parents, facilitated it.
I don't think they'll be honest with themselves. It would be too painful. Intellectually I understand it. I want so much to ask them, "What did you say, when your child first dropped this bomb? What was the first thing you said?" But how could I? It's done, to whatever degree it's being done. All that question would do, all that bringing to bear the research that in fact they weren't "choosing between a live son or a dead daughter" but rather were exacerbating a troubled child's mental and emotional distress, would do, would be to force them to confront what was almost certainly the worst mistake they've ever made or will ever make.
I'm not their conscience. I'm not even a close enough friend to touch this. Those kids - the youngest may not be a lost cause in this respect, but the other two pretty certainly are. It's a tragedy for them and a Greek tragedy, laden with hubris, for their parents.
And yet the accepted liberal line - you don't even have to be progressive for this to be the only acceptable answer! - is "How brave!" "What great parents you are!" "Congratulations on your son's strength and resolve!" Any liberal who dares to say, "Um... wouldn't watchful waiting have been a reasonable approach? You know, given the European findings and all?" is a TERF or a transphobe and an enabler of child abuse. (Conservatives are just preemptively assumed to be so.)
"Douthat is comfortable being a “conservative whisperer” to liberals, as Moyn put it"
Douthat is a moderate but to the Timesmen, he's very conservative. In a way, he's doing the polar opposite of Althouse: Althouse is a left of center moderate whose audience is predominantly people much more conservative than she.
Embarrassing that so many liberals have no working class friends!
Or are you liberals no longer embarrassed by your hypocrisy and dishonesty?
It would be funny if a Republican president announced, "I'm a socialist, Yale convinced me. So now I'm going to seize their endowment and give it to inner city youths."
If this was a horror movie
all the Republicans would be outside the building
Douthat would be whispering...
"they're not crazy..."
and then the narrator would boom
"maybe the problem is in the house!"
then you'd have red diaper babies running around
I'm a pro-lifer so I'm not going to write this screenplay
but the red diaper babies are the bad guys
Our Children Are Here and They Want Our Brains
Jamie wrote:
"I don't think they'll be honest with themselves. It would be too painful. Intellectually I understand it. I want so much to ask them, "What did you say, when your child first dropped this bomb? What was the first thing you said?" But how could I? It's done, to whatever degree it's being done. All that question would do, all that bringing to bear the research that in fact they weren't "choosing between a live son or a dead daughter" but rather were exacerbating a troubled child's mental and emotional distress, would do, would be to force them to confront what was almost certainly the worst mistake they've ever made or will ever make."
I have written it several times here in the past- parents are biggest natural influence on their childrens' progress through development outside of the genes. Increasingly, however, parents have abdicated their role in setting the gender norms of their children. They have done this thinking that genetics alone will guide the children some real gender that naturally flows from that genetic blueprint, even if that gender identification doesn't match that from chromosome 43. This belief is just sheer idiocy- if you don't set the gender norms for your children right from the start, someone else will do it for you, and that person will not have your child's best interests as the motivation.
It's a common liberal coping mechanism, effectively having a one of their own explain the conservative view point
About 15 years ago I was taking my daughter around to visit colleges to decide where she would go. We were at Whitman College in south east Washington state. It's a very liberal college and fancies it's graduates as "witties". Talking to the recruiter, he told how open minded Whitman was because they had had some very liberal person in to explain how conservatives thought. This of course included something on "global warming", guns, religion, and all the other tropes about how conservatives are backwards.
I, being an MIT grad and a conservative, with backgrounds in math, science, economics, and an interest in history that has focused my reading, thought of saying, "you should get a real conservative to explain their positions to your "witties". Don't get someone who will create laughable strawmen to knock down and help your "witties" feel safe in their shells." I refrained (so as not to anger my wife) and crossed Whitman off my list of schools that were acceptable.
I still have that problem with liberals now. They won't listen to the numbers and science on "global warming", gun usage, the economy (inflation) and even religion. I'm a true atheist - I don't believe in god or government, but I prefer the people who believe in god and try to help others than the people who believe in the state and try to rule others.
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