Writes Robert Gebelhoff, in "Marijuana is getting out of hand. The federal government must step in" (WaPo).
What exactly is this "problem" (other than the conceptual chaos of states "legalizing" something that's still a crime federally)? It seems that if you're not going to take the federal crime seriously, you need federal regulation:
New variants of cannabis are continually popping up with little regulation to ensure safety. More and more Americans are developing addictions to the drug, with an estimated 16 million suffering from cannabis use disorder in 2021. Hospitalizations from marijuana use are also steadily rising, especially among kids. Then there are the long-term health effects that researchers are only beginning to understand, including cardiovascular disease and links to aggravated mental health conditions such as schizophrenia.
It needs regulation, per Gebelhoff, because it's so destructive and dangerous, but the state-level legalization represented a triumph of the view that marijuana is not destructive and dangerous. It's odd, but it makes sense, to say that federal legalization is needed precisely because the states were wrong in their reason for legalizing.
पोस्ट्स
११९ टिप्पण्या:
Marijuana is no more or less dangerous than alcohol or tobacco. Some people will use them, some people will abuse them and others will avoid them. All three cause health and mental problems to one degree or another, all three are safer than opioids.
Let me suggest some of the mental health issues have their causation reversed.
Robert Gebelhoff is 29 years old. He's practically a child. He is the type of person that Ben Rhodes laughed about ... reporters who have been nowhere and know nothing.
Let's not turn our country over to a bunch of know-nothing punk kids.
These people take so long to identify an obvious problem that I suspect they're on drugs
...or that the real reason they need to legalize at the federal level - in 2024 of course - is to win the next election. Imagine an entire cohort of the American population that would vote for another Biden term just so they can 4/20 all year round. Which they were ready doing anyway.
Sometimes I think we don't deserve what little freedom we have left.
Alcohol abuse is easily as dangerous as anything described above in the warnings against marijuana abuse. Rather than returning to failed prohibition measures, regulate marijuana as alcohol is: establish legal ages for use, regulate and tax manufacture of legal marijuana, and treat highly stoned marijuana users as we do drunk people, who, in public, are nuisances or pose actual dangers to others, (driving while stoned, etc.).
… but the state-level legalization represented a triumph of the view that marijuana is not destructive and dangerous.
They lied.
Oh, I see Gebelhoff advocates what I suggested: regulation. I had not clicked on the link as I assumed it would have a paywall. Surprisingly, the article is available for free.
Robert Gebelhoff is a deputy editor of politics with degrees in journalism
And political science. Talk about zero credibility on the subject.
"An’ me, I nearly got busted
An’ wouldn’t it be my luck
To get caught without a ticket"
Asking a President whose children are regularly addicted to drugs to enforce laws is silly. Add on that the states legalizing marijuana represent his core base, and the notion is downright hilarious.
There have been numerous books and published scientific articles now about the effects of marijuana, particularly on the younger minds. Today's bud is much different than the bud in my college and young professional years. I don't use it these days. I tries it again, but...I guess I prefer a clear head as I've gotten older.
It is powerful. It can be dangerous. And, who would have thought that by legalizing it, there would be a rise in issues? Particularly among the young? A shocking result. Not.
If Alex Berenson is right in his book, "Tell Your Children", we are in for a long, expensive haul as the mental health consequences of the legalization play out. We are in for a flood of increased psychosis.
The legalization industry in the states might have had a better run of it if they hadn't lied their way throughout the process, first brainwashing legions of stupid leftitarians into endlessly whining "but Prohibition failed," then wildly misrepresenting incarceration statistics, then making up the gateway industry of "harmless/magical medical marijuana," then ignoring the glaringly obvious consequences: societies awash with drugs that do stunt and addict young people, vast increases in social service spending for the addicted, and, everywhere it is legalized, big increases, not decreases, in illegal trafficking alongside legal sales and all the dangerous social costs accompanying that.
Maybe telling the truth would have prevented some of these disasters. Instead, some states have chosen to virtually deify getting high. I see the consequences in young adult and teen children of my friends. One is already lost to the streets.
Nobody ever validated drinking booze before breakfast. The biggest lie of all is that any of these activists were going to stop with legalizing pot. Plans are well underway, or already enforced through decriminalization, to legalize psychedelics, cocaine, meth, opiates and anything else they can imagine.
San Francisco, here we come. Only without the family, church, work, and other controls that once held society together.
As though marijuana were of one strength universally available. Our botany wizards have crafted plants that will knock you on your ass or give a slight buzz. Without a way to determine potency it is both difficult to market effectively and difficult to impossible to regulate. Legal dope competes with black market dope with the latter unfettered by rules, permits etc
Huh. I posted before I read Robert Cook's comments. It's like I'm channeling him.
Robert, all of these regulations are already built into every state marijuana law. Read them. They didn't work.
@ Gahrie
What mental problems does tobacco cause?
I was surprised how many redditors admit to psychic problems with weed. It used to be such a sacred cow.
Once you've had an episode you can never be too sure of the stuff again. They even get withdrawals or at least terrible depression when they quit if not actual dopesick. That's not supposed to happen.
Most commercial is 20-50% THC but then they have tinctures and dabs and edibles that must be quartered to keep from getting too high. Very hard to accurately dose considering the "medicinal" hype.
Hey, maybe NORML played us for fools?
Yet making it illegal only empowers the cartels like we empowered the mafia with prohibition of booze and opiates. We have created such a lucrative global industry in fentanyl and meth and party drugs that there's no going back.
Still, I wish we could return to the days when rich and poor could smoke weed or opium or buy morphine syrup or peregoric at the drug store.
It's how people coped.
as people here KEEP telling us.. Marijuana use is NO DIFFERENT than alcohol.
And MOST people that drink alcohol start the morning with a dose, with additional doses every 4 hours.
Don't they? Aren't MOST drinkers DRUNK 24/7 ???
hmmm. this argument is falling apart.. I KNOW !! lets be like Robert and say:
Marijuana is NO DIFFERENT than tobacco !!
As long as the reader is stoned, he won't think about that.. In FACT, he won't think
How often does the typical pot smoker smoke pot? I'll give you a hint, the answer is ALWAYS
Wake and Bake dude!!! don't forget 4:20 !! plus before (and after) each meal!!!
Just like alcohol !! ???
“But the longer the federal government waits to step in, the worse the dangers will become — and the stronger the cannabis industry will grow politically. Best to tame the beast before it’s too big to control."
1. The pot industry in NE tried to legalize medical pot twice by petition and failed. But they will eventually win. Too much money to be made.
During that debate I told the proponents to read Alex Berenson’s book about the potency of the new pot; especially on kids.
2. The Dems ruling philosophy is bread and circuses. Just keep the plebes fed, entertained and doped up. They’ll continue to vote Dem.
Years ago, right after Colorado legalized pot, one of their congress critters was lobbying for a pledge that the DOJ wouldn't prosecute Colorado dealers for the federal crime they were committing. I loudly said at the time that since his job was to write federal laws, he should be working to legalize at the federal level so it would be a purely state matter. But rather than do his job, he wanted the DOJ to promise not to do theirs. In practice, he got what he wanted. Since it has already been de facto returned to the states, legalizing it at the federal level should be a cinch. But, of course, our congress critters will never do the right thing and simply repeal the federal criminal statutes. Instead, if they ever do the right thing, they will layer on more federal taxes and regulations (and more federal bureaucrats to collect the taxes and enforce the regulations), making it once again the wrong thing to do but in a different way.
I wouldn't necessarily say the States have determined its not dangerous or addictive, maybe the States are just saying "we can get a piece of the action."
For once I agree with Robert Cook.
Is the author calling for a constitutional amendment, directly parallel to the 18th, giving the federal government the authority to do what he wants it to do?
Because if not, then he can just f*** right off, as "something needs to be done" is NOT in the Constitution.
if you believe the CDC...
https://www.cdc.gov/marijuana/what-we-know.html
Marijuana Use Disorder
Approximately 3 in 10 people who use marijuana have marijuana use disorder.7 Some signs and symptoms of marijuana use disorder include trying but failing to quit using marijuana or giving up important activities with friends and family in favor of using marijuana.8 The risk of developing marijuana use disorder is stronger in people who start using marijuana during youth or adolescence and who use marijuana more frequently.9
wikileaf: How Many Grams a Week Do You Smoke?
Comments measuring the very specific quantity, “all day, every day,” weren’t included in these numbers.
Based on the forum responses, it seems like most people consume a gram or less a day. In total, I recorded the responses from 131 people, and here's what I found:
51.9% said they smoked a gram or less
21.4% said they smoked about 2 grams
10.7% said they smoked about 3 grams
9.9% said they smoked about 4 grams
2.3% said they smoked about 5 grams a day
3.8% said they smoked more than 5 grams a day—one of those respondents said he smoked ten grams a day.
so, according to pot smokers, among pot smokers, more than 6% smoker about a gram a DAY (that's about 2-3 joints.. of today's SUPER Potent pot)
about 16% MORE THAN a 1/8th of an oz (3.5g) EVERY WEEK.. week in, week out 24/7/52
marijuana is FINE!! so it MUST BE FINE to be stoned ALL THE TIME, right?? i mean DUDE, RIGHT?
Maybe the Washington Post should be advocating the arrest of crack cocaine abusers, such as Hunter Biden.
Maybe the Washington Post should be advocating US military drone strikes against Mexican drug cartels importing Chinese-made fentanyl into the United States.
Maybe the Washington Post should adv ... oh wait ... the Washington Post is owned by Jeff Bezos, who depends on the Chinese for 100% of his income and that's why the Washington Post is worried about marijuana (which people can grow free) and they have to pay for their Chinese-made fentanyl.
The Washington Post only wants the drugs you can grow yourself "regulated."
More potheads, more government dependents. What's not to like if you're a Big Government Democrat?
So the article describes a huge uptick in ER cases for marijuana because of the COVID shutdowns. The shutdowns continue to have been much more detrimental than COVID itself. Suicides way up, drug use way up, family businesses destroyed and increased deaths and ailments due to the COVID experimental jab. If we had not shut anything down and used ivermectin, all of this ( including cabbage head as POTUS ) would have been avoided.
One of the most destructive man made events in history bar WWI/WWII.
First, I wouldn't expect Washington or Congress to do much as they are too interested in fighting each other.
Second, I understand the real m/j problem is the increasing potency of the sold products which in turn increase all the known problems of drug dependency. The US is becoming an even more dangerous place -- drugs, guns, and people with problems (mental/political/etc).
Cannabis Change.
The Mafia and cartel members that sell drugs are not users. They are businessmen in a super high margin business. They don’t want governments getting a cut.
Of course, maybe the reason there's little appetite in the Biden White House for confronting the marijuana problem is they've moved on to cocaine.
I recall a 'boarder patrol' docu-series on the Canadian border. A lot of (usually younger) people moving across the border from a legal marijuana state (e.g. Michigan). It's a Federal border with federal laws.
What's surprising is that President From Delaware Banking Credit Card hasn't been pushed in federal legalization so that pot can be purchased with your Visa instead of cash, with the feds getting their cut from excise taxes.
A few years ago, an AA friend of mine sober for 15 years or so, got on a marihuana maintenance program for back pain and nearly lost his mind. His daughter had to legally force him into a psych ward. After a few months he came back to his old self again. Now he just doesn’t celebrate sober anniversaries. I spoke to him last night in fact. He just doesn’t talk about that time and only refers to it as the depression. He was a tremendous help to me when I was trying to stop drinking.
A bipartisan bill for SAFE Banking was announced several months ago.
With regards to the lack of profitability, it'd be good to point out that this is largely attributable to "Section 280E":
"Section 280E penalizes traffickers of Schedule I or II drugs by disallowing the deduction of “ordinary and necessary” business expenses—such as below-the-line deductions—after reducing gross receipts by cost of goods sold, or COGS, essentially resulting in federal income tax liability calculated based on gross income, not net income."
Demand for legal cannabis is absolutely enormous, with the domestic U.S. now exceeding demand for established consumer segments such as chocolate or craft beer. Meanwhile the first movers who jumped into Canada in 2018/2019 remain landlocked in the over-regulated Canadian market. Not a place anyone wants to be any more.
When the banking and interstate distribution laws change in favor of the industry, there will be a big shake out with the deep pockets coming out on top.
Alcohol is alcohol, from 0.1 to 200 proof- one can literally make 190 proof in the basement easily. Marijuana is marijuana for the most part as a smoked, injected, or ingested product- some varieties of the plant are more potent than the others, but here is the thing- legalization has also semi-legalized cannabis products laced with other drugs.
Here is my question for the "more regulation" supporters: what are you prepared to criminalized if people don't obey the new regulations? Note that you already have to be 21 to be able to purchase such products in the states that have legalized it. It is also already illegal drive while stoned, and it is already illegal, supposedly, to sell such products laced with other drugs. So, what are the new regulations you want how do you intend to enforce them?
Using marijuana, alcohol, heroin, meth, etc., is a choice. Choices always have consequences.
When society assumes collective responsibility for these consequences, by, e.g., transitioning addiction from a foreseeable consequence of a choice into a diagnosis, it does not affect the user's situation. It does have costs for society (more wasted lives, diversion of resources into "cures" or "treatments" of little merit).
But, as always, the default position of people like Mr Gebelhoff is yet another government program-- we'll do it right this time.
"Unfortunately, it seems there is little appetite in the Biden administration for confronting the marijuana problem."
The word "marijuana" is superfluous here.
Public service announcement:
If you take edibles please please keep them away from children. Especially autistic children. All children, but especially autistic kids, are super susceptible to the hallucinogenic effects of THC and it causes a lot of confusion and considerable effort to undo, especially if they accidentally took a high dose.
Shouldn't really have to tell adults this, but you'd be amazed. Treat it like a loaded gun and keep it locked up.
Make it strong enough so we can just herd the potheads with the meth addicts
Make it strong enough so we can just herd the potheads with the meth addicts
I'd like to see the Federal government seize all the assets of the pot pushers for violations of Federal law and put the money towards addiction treatment and mental health.
Then wait a year or so for the assets to accumulate and do it again.
Robert Cook said...
Oh, I see Gebelhoff advocates what I suggested: regulation. I had not clicked on the link as I assumed it would have a paywall. Surprisingly, the article is available for free.
Lately I find myself agreeing with Robert Cook so very often!
You can get in trouble for having an open container of alcohol in the car, not in the trunk. But I smell pot cars driving down the road. I really don't want to share the road with stoned drivers any more than drunk drivers, and I don't think it is just to treat alcohol and weed differently when it comes to driving.
I live in a building with other people, and it is a no smoking building, and for that I am grateful. Pot smells awful.
I just got back from the pot dispensary and, no, I found little appetite anywhere to do anything about it.
They offered me a brownie, though.
"Best to tame the beast before it’s too big to control."
It isn't now? How will regulation prevent regulatory capture?
"What exactly is this "problem""
I don't know, millions of additional addictions, more people in the hospital at my expense, long-term effects of stronger cannabis versions either unknown or underestimated? Not a problem, I guess, as long as Americans prefer recreational self-medication.
"the conceptual chaos of states "legalizing" something that's still a crime federally"
Considering that the rule of law is to laugh, chaos is not a problem. A feature, not a bug, of "legalization."
"Then there are the long-term health effects that researchers are only beginning to understand, including cardiovascular disease and links to aggravated mental health conditions such as schizophrenia."
How better to tame the populace? Break down individual autonomy and rational decision-making, and Big Brother has free rein.
This can't be true. I was told that marijuana was the wonder drug. It cured every disease and had no side effects. That was the original reason given for legalizing it. Are you saying that the potheads lied to me?
He raises a point about what is being grown and he’s right.
Imagine buying a beer and it having the alcohol content of grain alcohol.
That is what the current state of legalized marijuana is - people are buying things with inconsistent knowledge and labeling of potency of the product.
Saying, "The governemnt must step in." is saying in reality, "we're losing graft here!".
A marijuana problem? My goodness! Who could have foreseen such a thing?
Jesus, Robert. Can you be any more deficient?
Regulation doesn't solve the problem. If it did there would be no alchohol problem. What regulation does is create a black market where people who are inclined to drink or indulge in drugs will find what they want. Where did people get their dope before a state legalized it? On the street, right? Guess where you can still get it. On the street. Why? Because the street stuff is much better than what you can get at a dispensery.
"Where ever there is a market. That market will be filled." That's an economic law, Robert. As immutable as the law of gravity.
There seems to be little appetite for politicians to confront most problems. Instead we get generalities or kicking the can down the road. Doug Borglum, who I wanted to like, has been running the most vapid ads all over television here (we're next to New Hampshire). Here's a hint, Doug. Right now, the Republican primaries are Donald Trump and the Seven Dwarfs. Those are dwarf ads and they won't do anything to get you out of dwarf status.
You might stand out from the pack if you said substantive things, if you were willing to be attacked for unpleasant truths. It probably wouldn't work, but right now you are guaranteed to do nothing more than make a lot of people who run campaign firms rich.
2The Crack Emcee:
Amen 2that.
donald writes, "Robert Gebelhoff is a deputy editor of politics with degrees in journalism and political science. Talk about zero credibility on the subject."
The Nile can overflow its banks just about anywhere, including the Althouse Blog. Shall we talk about your credentials, Donald?
Modern cigarette tobacco contains more far nicotine than the ancestral weed an Arawak chieftain shared with Columbus in 1492. No one should be surprised. It would be surprising if 400 years of commercial cultivation and husbandry didn't result in a more pharmacologically potent and therefore more valuable crop. By the same token, one should expect selective cultivation of marijuana to produce more potent strains than the unattended weed commonly that fueled the silliness of the 1960s that hasn't yet given way to cool rationality.
Random testing of marijuana samples has shown a dramatic increase in the potency of Cannabis sativa. According to one DEA study, 38,000 illicit marijuana samples collected between 1994 and 2014 showed a three-fold increase in THC content, from a 4% mean to over 12% in the most recent samples.
I suppose everybody in my class smoked pot, except me. Everybody told me it was as harmless as alcohol. Alcohol can be pretty damned destructive, I shot back. If you'd cut back on the pot, maybe your taste in music would improve, said I as I turned up the volume on Gustav Holst. Everybody smoked and most got by mostly intact, but we all knew a pothead, the amiable but shiftless guy down the hall who did nothing but smoke, fuck, and noodle his Stratocaster. He smoked the same weed as the physics major next door, but with markedly different effects because the pothead smoked far more often, which is nothing but ingesting far more THC over a similar interval of time. And what's that? An overdose, moron. OD is bad, dude. Where's your brain? If the average pot user is ingesting three times as much THC as we did in our salad days, that's bad news.
We were promised golden riches and such amazing freedoms... by the pro-drug left...
Hunter Biden should be our drug czar.
We legalized marijuana here in Maine. I recently drove through the city of Bath where the Bath Iron Works produces about half the destroyers for the United States Navy.
Within a mile of the shipyard, I counted a half dozen cannabis shops. It's been over 40 years since I sampled marijuana. It was a powerful drug then and I'm told its even more powerful now.
These are billion dollar warships. I don't think the shops are doing much for destroyer quality.
Explain to the Biden administration that taxes on legal pot can be levied by the Feds as well as by the states, and the government will race to kill the industry via overtaxation and even more burdensome legislation. Somehow the feds have forgotten this, or perhaps just taking Chinese bribes is so lucrative that merely taking taxes for government use is seen as chump change.
If it was cocaine, it would get the Bidens' immediate attention.
Clear, unclouded thinking will become evermore valuable.
I think young Mr. Gebelhoff needs to sit down with some MGM or GFG and smoke a big bowlful.
I tend to agree with Robert Cook. Marijuana is roughly on the same level with alcohol, as far as destructive addictive substances are concerned. That said, marijuana is not harmless, which was the argument that was made. It can be extremely nasty with some people and can still be situationally very harmful for other people, the same as alcohol.
That said, the state level regulations have been a mixed bag. Some states have seen marijuana legalization as a cash cow, which is exactly the wrong motivation. You can support legalizing marijuana because it is not worth the effort or because it is not dangerous enough to be restricted, but a profit motive is immoral. In any case, some of these states have taxed and regulated marijuana so severely that they have essentially wrecked the legal markets and it is cheaper to buy the illegal stuff. Stupid and evil. Great combination.
Marijuana is no more or less dangerous than alcohol or tobacco.
@Gahrie, once upon a time thst was at least an arguably true assertion. Is it still true now?
"In 10 years, it [the federal government’s stance on marijuana] has moved from imposing a total ban on recreational use to enabling the drug to become widely available across most states with zero national safety standards."
This sentence makes no sense. There is still a total federal ban on recreational use. The entire article is poorly constructed and self-contradictory. The first link in this story in the Washington Post goes to ... Fox News!
Conclusion : The author higher than Maureen Dowd on a bender in Denver.
Marijuana has ruined my sister and her family. In time people will realize that it is as harmful as alcohol which is the biggest public health problem in the country. Anything the fed can do to slow it down is welcome.
I don't use marijuana, and I certainly believe there are those who abuse it to the point that they harm themselves, but I'm unsure what kind of federal regulations would protect against that. What kind of federal regulations stop people from becoming alcoholics? Though if the Feds were going to do something I would hope they would legalize it to the point where Marijuana shops can use banking and credit card services like other businesses. As it is I think most Marijuana shops are cash only, which makes them targets for robbers.
Marijuana has ruined my sister and her family. In time people will realize that it is as harmful as alcohol which is the biggest public health problem in the country. Anything the fed can do to slow it down is welcome.
there is little appetite in the Biden administration for confronting the marijuana problem.
Munchies?
Stupid ,stupid, stupid.
Oh, Leland, how did DJT do with his children(Donny Jr to be exact) who was a cocaine addict? That's just bull.
Vicki from Pasadena
WPOD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4KSux1OEkk
Mom and dad live in Hollywood!
Wasn't Hunter Biden dismissed from the Navy cuz he couldn't pass a piss test?
Funny, he had to get a special exemption to commission him as 2nd. Lt at age 42. Six months later they threw him out because he failed the drug tests..........but we can't figure out who left the cocaine in the White House.
They must be desperate for distractions.
He's going to make Hunter his marijuana czar........I mean, at this point, what ELSE could go wrong.
Sorry, that would Ensign in the Navy.
>Mountain Maven said...
Marijuana has ruined my sister and her family.<
Your sister and her family ruined themselves.
As an agronomist I happen to have considerable expertise in Cannabis going back over 30 years, including having developed the general fertility protocols for hemp production in Canada and being a minor contributor to a couple of international works on the topic. I've personally grown over 20 acres of medicinal hemp on my farm. Ironically, though, I've never had a single toke of the marijuana version. For me it's an immensely fascinating crop, nothing more.
Having dealt with US hemp legalization issues for at least 5 or 10 years -- it was finally legalized federally in 2018 -- I'm pretty sure that the state-by-state approach, which is highly varied for hemp (from full prohibition to absolutely unregulated), is the way to go with marijuana.
We're already getting state data on marijuana, and those data vary highly from state to state according to the assorted regulatory regimes. This is the best possible way to prevent a serious nationwide error arising from one or more ignorant federal decisions, applied nationally. Correcting errors at the state level is much easier.
@Gahrie, once upon a time thst was at least an arguably true assertion. Is it still true now?
Of course.........when was the last time you heard anyone speak of paraquat pot!!
“I wouldn't necessarily say the States have determined it’s not dangerous or addictive, maybe the States are just saying "we can get a piece of the action."”
Absolutely. As with gambling, legalization is a debate about who gets the grease, not who gets greased.
Defer to commenters who are still smoking. But, it seems to me that the growers now can duplicate their strains, just as tobacco growers can, and potency, taste and effect can be consistent with a particular strain. Cigarette smokers have a favorite brand, as do alcohol drinkers.
You can smoke Marlboro Lights or un-filtered Luckies.
You can drink your Bud Light for a controllable buzz, or you can chug your Yukon Jack and go black-out crazy.
And obviously, some people will over indulge and create their own problems, just as people do with alcohol or cigarettes.
Victoria - please tell us how much you adore the crook Biden family.... and the coke head money whore Hunter.
Canada's approach to substance abuse whilst driving is pretty good -- if you're messed up, be it on caffeine pills, THC, booze, pot or whatever. The RCMP worked with a popular comedy show to get that messge out when "re weed" became fully legal back in '19. Enjoy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PLC_cBJwk4
I really don't want to share the road with stoned drivers any more than drunk drivers
Got any links to studies showing that driving stoned is any more dangerous than not?
Serious question.
Not studies that look at people with mj And alcohol in their blood.
I mean Studies that have people smoke calibrated amounts of mj and test their driving skills in a car on an obstacle course at increasing doses.
There are 4 that I have read, 2 by usnhtsa, 1 by Australian govt and 1 by a European govt.
All showed no impairment.
No doubt there are contrary studies but I've never heard of them. Or perhaps it just "stands to reason" or is "common sense" that stoned drivers are dangerous.
Not something I follow closely so I could be wrong. Perhaps there are studies.
John Henry
"states have taxed and regulated marijuana so severely that they have essentially wrecked the legal markets and it is cheaper to buy the illegal stuff."
Remember the "Legalize and TAX it!" crowd? The voters sold out for a mess of pottage.
I like Holst (and many others) and being high at the same time.
And not that anyone has to believe me, but the potsmokers and gummers I know tend to fare better and live longer than the drinkers (many of whom also smoked pot, granted). In my own family pot has caused problems but booze and strong drugs have caused much MUCH worse.
At any rate the pot is truly out of the bag and too much is too far gone on more important fronts for any remediation that might be called for to work.
Short of fascistic tactics, that is, and that will signal failure of another sort.
Leftism is the most dangerous drug. It can and will ruin Western Civilization.
A lethal case of dysentery to Hillary Clinton!
Iman said...
Clear, unclouded thinking will become evermore valuable.
8/20/23, 10:53 AM
Which will become a symbol of bigotry, racism and white supremacy.
i see i was misspeaking, when i quoted my source.. My source said
2.3% said they smoked about 5 grams a day
3.8% said they smoked more than 5 grams a day—one of those respondents said he smoked ten grams a day.
so that's 6.1% (more than 1 out of 20) potusers smoked 5 (OR MORE!) grams.. A DAY!
i had ASSUMED that was a week, so my numbers are ALL off by a factor of 7 (SEVEN TIMES TOO LOW)
i SHOULD have said..
about 16% of potheads surveyed smoke MORE THAN a 1/8th of an oz (3.5g) EVERY DAY!.. day in, day out 24/7/52
that's about one out of every 6 potheads, that are smoking CONTINUOUSLY
ASSUMING, for the sake of argument.. That "Pot is no worse than booze"..
Imagine if one out of every 6 drinkers was drinking a case of beer.. A DAY??
One thing is For Sure.. SOMEONE is making A LOT of money on this 'harmless' recreation
"Rather than returning to failed prohibition measures, regulate marijuana as alcohol is: establish legal ages for use, regulate and tax manufacture of legal marijuana, and treat highly stoned marijuana users as we do drunk people, who, in public, are nuisances or pose actual dangers to others, (driving while stoned, etc.)."
That very thing has now occurred in 23 States. And the 10th Amendment tells us that's where it belongs.
People have been smoking weed for thousands of years. And yet, the human population just keeps growing and advancing. The horror. The horror.
I smoke weed. In my house. Never before 8:00 pm. I never drive under the influence -- of anything -- because doing so is both foolish and risky. It's called being responsible. So to all the prohibitionists on this thread I just gotta ask, why do you hate Liberty? Why do you want to control the lives of others*?
*https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405094/
What mental problems does tobacco cause?
Mostly addiction, if you don't consider altering your mood with a drug a problem. Personally, I don't, but tobacco withdrawal can be a bitch.
"How often does the typical pot smoker smoke pot? I'll give you a hint, the answer is ALWAYS
Wake and Bake dude!!! don't forget 4:20 !! plus before (and after) each meal!!!"
You are so full of shit.
Marijuana is no more or less dangerous than alcohol or tobacco.
@Gahrie, once upon a time thst was at least an arguably true assertion. Is it still true now?
All three are very addictive.
All three are mood altering drugs.
Two can cause major lung trauma, the third destroys the liver.
Two are intoxicants, which produces dangers like DUI.
I disagree with the assertion that marijuana use is causing psychosis. I think they have the causation backwards on that one.
I do however agree that marijuana is far stronger than it was twenty years ago, and far more available.
As I teacher I'm concerned that many edibles look just like regular candy and apparently students can use vape pens in classrooms without getting caught.
Nor the progressive Fentanyl problem.
Some, Select [Black] Lives Matter (SS BLM)
so that's 6.1% (more than 1 out of 20) potusers smoked 5 (OR MORE!) grams.. A DAY!
Those are long-term, chronic users who have built up a tolerance. Your average user would be simply immobile on far less.
No doubt there are contrary studies but I've never heard of them. Or perhaps it just "stands to reason" or is "common sense" that stoned drivers are dangerous.
Granting for the sake of argument, they may not be more dangerous but out here in California they are fucking annoying... they're the ones driving 45 in the righthand lane during the morning commute.
The problem is it stinks and gets all over your clothes. Denver sucks to be around these days due to stoners
Hunter Biden's taxpayer paid hooker.... you are a bitter lonely person. Grow up.
Don't 'love the Biden's at all, just a stupid, stupid analogy.
Vicki from Pasadena
Got any links to studies showing that driving stoned is any more dangerous than not?
Oh, so your reflexes and thought process and speed of reaction time are the same while being stoned? Its not while your drunk. Why would being stoned have no effect on your reaction time, while alcohol does? In fact, if you go to any medical website you'll see the following:
Marijuana can cause undesirable side effects, which increase with higher doses. These side effects include:
Decreased short-term memory
Dry mouth
Impaired perception and motor skills
Red eyes
Of course, this doesn't apply to Special snow flake YOU. YOU, of course, have no impairemnt. Because you're Mr. MJ. and because you probably make $$$$ off MJ.
Robert Cook said...
"... regulate marijuana as alcohol is: establish legal ages for use, regulate and tax manufacture of legal marijuana, and treat highly stoned marijuana users as we do drunk people..."
If Robert's dream comes to fruition and Budweiser's sales continue to crater, Bud and Bud Light will be replaced on the store shelves by... bud and bud light.
Why the US Government isn't commissioning and/or publishing studies on the negative effects of Longterm MJ use is puzzling.
Of course, since most of Congress are corrupt, its probably because BIG MJ is bribing them. And people like Joe Biden just dont' give a damn. it only effects the peasants, not the elite.
John Bonehead, the former Speaker, is now a spokesman for MJ company. This is the same guy who's proud his kids are DEmocarts, and showed up to praise Nancy Pelosi as a great woman.
What is it now 23 states approved recreational Marijuana ans what 8 states decriminalization it.Is it better to be stoned or drunk? I would say neither but I would prefer a stoner driving than an alcoholic check the stats?
I am a working professional in my mid-60's. Most of my friends and acquaintances are over 50 and either quite gainfully employed or retired. Most have families, grandchildren, etc.
My own very unscientific observation is that about 80% of them smoke pot or use gummies on a regular basis; probably closer to 90% of the younger generation does so.
(One of my sons was until a couple of years ago employed in the legal cannabis-growing industry in MA; our friends are aware of it and accordingly feel quite comfortable revealing that they enjoy the occasional bit of weed).
I know of no one whose world, or that of their children and families, has been turned upside down because of either legal or readily available cannabis. Or because the cannabis is more potent. I do know that most people are well aware of the increased potency.
Most people don't try to deal with the important things in life while drunk; nor do they do so while stoned.
That doesn't mean that there are not far too many addictive types who have ruined their lives and those of their families with abuse. Sadly, that has been the case since alcohol was discovered, and drugs like opium and cocaine have obviously caused much damage and despair. But the comparison is like comparing the hard-core alcoholic with the average social drinker. We are not on the verge of "reefer madness."
In any event, that particular genii is not going back into the bottle.
There is one large number in the list of linked risks: 16 million with "cannabis use disorder". Everything else is a very small number, growing very quickly (to another very small number). So what is this disorder?
The link goes to a bullet point, which then lists a 900 page government report as it's cite. Instead of reading that (bad citation practice by the way), I looked up the definition. Found it in an <a href='https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK538131/>NIH report here</a>:
A problematic pattern of cannabis use leading to clinically significant impairment or distress, as manifested by <b>at least two</b> of the following, occurring within a 12-month period:
1. Cannabis is often taken in larger amounts or over a longer period than was intended.
2. There is a persistent desire or unsuccessful efforts to cut down or control cannabis use.
3. A great deal of time is spent in activities necessary to obtain cannabis, use cannabis, or recover from its effects.
4. Craving, or a strong desire or urge to use cannabis.
5. Recurrent cannabis use results in failure to fulfill role obligations at work, school, or home.
6. Continued cannabis use despite having persistent or recurrent social or interpersonal problems caused or exacerbated by the effects of cannabis.
7. Important social, occupational, or recreational activities are given up or reduced because of cannabis use.
8. Recurrent cannabis use in situations in which it is physically hazardous.
9. Cannabis use continues despite knowledge of having a persistent or recurrent physical or psychological problem that is likely to have been caused or exacerbated by cannabis.
10. Tolerance, as defined by either: (1) a need for markedly increased cannabis to achieve intoxication or desired effect or (2) a markedly diminished effect with continued use of the same amount of the substance.
11. Withdrawal, as manifested by either (1) the characteristic withdrawal syndrome for cannabis or (2) cannabis is taken to relieve or avoid withdrawal symptoms.
Just TWO items on that list.
You could have this disorder just by spending a bunch of time trying to get weed and never succeeding. JUNK STAT ALERT! Reefer madness all over again.
Oh, so your reflexes and thought process and speed of reaction time are the same while being stoned?
Yes, according to studies by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and other govts
But you just "know" different, don't you?
As for my use, I did a lot in the 60s along with other drugs. With one exception in 73 I've not had any since 67.
I have been asked to consult on mj packaging. I turned it down. Not on moral grounds, just based on the worry that I might get shucked into some mj case when the feds decide to enforce the law.
I've not used tobacco since 71 or alcohol since 84. I do not recommend either or mj to anyone. But as long as it is legal and they leave me alone, I have no problem working with them for money
John Henry
You drag a roll of cookie dough through an Althouse post on weed there’s no tellin’ what you’ll find…
Victoria-
Glad you do not approve of the Bidens. I was just checking.
The issue isn't responsible pot smoking by adults - the problem is the powerful stains and the drug-laced strains of Marijuana that have a powerful negative impact on our youth.
“I disagree with the assertion that marijuana use is causing psychosis. I think they have the causation backwards on that one.“
I’ve seen it- 40yrs ago w/my schizophrenic brother &as recent as >5 w/a friend’s son.
Pot induced schizophrenia.
My brother is 63 & the friend’s son is 26(IIRC).
Lots of overdoses up here where I live- lots of poverty (self-induced)& lots of pot dispensaries.
When someone is given enough rope… :0(
Free Manure While You Wait! ??
do YOU smoke dude? When and how much?? Kinda curious
all i know is: when i smoked it was all the time.. Me and EVERY ONE i knew
Seriously.. do YOU smoke dude? When and how much?
California Office of Traffic Safety:
Marijuana affects driving:
-Slows your reaction time and ability to make decisions. Marijuana affects the part of the brain that controls body movement, balance and coordination and can impair judgment and memory. Studies show that driving while under the influence of marijuana negatively impacts attentiveness, perception of time and speed. Impaired memory can affect the ability to draw from past driving experiences, especially in emergency situations.
-The higher you are, the more risks you take while driving. Studies show that drivers with only a small amount of THC in their blood can feel the effects. They often try to be more cautious, driving slower than normal, even sometimes too slow. However, greater problems arise when increasingly larger doses of THC are present in the blood. These drivers tend to weave in and out of lanes more, react slower to traffic lights and unexpected obstacles and are less aware of their speed. Overall, higher doses of marijuana tend to cause greater impairment when it comes to driving.
-The effect of marijuana is strongest during the first 30 minutes after consumption. People who drive immediately after using marijuana may increase their risk of getting into a crash by 25 to 35 percent. The impairing effect rises rapidly and remains for some time. These affects can be delayed if the marijuana is ingested rather than smoked.
One can play dumb and make dumb "Give me the proof" arguments all day. And you could just as easily argue that drinking alcohol and driving is safe, since millions of people drive intoxicated and DONT get in accidents.
In fact, I personally have driven a car at least 20 times in my long life where I was over the 2 drink maximum. And zero accidents. So, i guess we should consider drunk driving NOT a problem.
A stupid arguement. And its equally stupid when its applied to MJ.
meanwhile...
Decriminalizing Drugs in Seattle
The City Council thwarts prosecutions of public drug use.
The City Council’s failure to act now makes Seattle “the only municipality in the State of Washington where it is legal to use hard drugs in public..”
Last year there were 589 overdose deaths in Seattle, a 72% increase over 2021. Most involved fentanyl or meth. King County emergency medical services had responded to some 4,918 opioid overdoses by Aug. 13 this year, compared to fewer than 3,700 in all of 2021.
Seattle’s drug crisis has contributed to record levels of violent and property crime. The Downtown Seattle Association recently found that nearly three-fourths of locals they polled are visiting downtown Seattle less, and public disorder is the top reason.
@Gilbar, a couple of one hits at days end. Sometimes just one, if that. Self control. How does it work? My source smokes all day. I have often told him that isn't necessary. But what I find odd is that more Americans were killed last year due to fentynl than were killed than there are names on the Vietnam Memorial in DC. Maybe yo anti-Liberty folks should focus on that.
Hmmm. I thought most adults outgrew getting high on a regular basis. I know I did. It's moot anyhow. My resting heartrate is in the low 50s. My Dr. reccomended I don't drink or get high. So I don't.
I’ve seen it- 40yrs ago w/my schizophrenic brother &as recent as >5 w/a friend’s son.
Pot induced schizophrenia.
How do you know it was pot and not genetics?
"How do you know it was pot?"
It's all pot, all the time, duh. Every ill known to modern man comes from the demon weed!
The science is settled.
"Jesus, Robert. Can you be any more deficient?
Regulation doesn't solve the problem. If it did there would be no alchohol problem. What regulation does is create a black market where people who are inclined to drink or indulge in drugs will find what they want. Where did people get their dope before a state legalized it? On the street, right? Guess where you can still get it. On the street. Why? Because the street stuff is much better than what you can get at a dispensery.
"Where ever there is a market. That market will be filled." That's an economic law, Robert. As immutable as the law of gravity."
Using your reasoning, the prohibition of alcohol should never have been repealed. After all, what was wrong with that?
Anecdotal only, but my experience comes from having employees for 45 years. Alcohol is a much larger problem than marijuana. Heavy alcohol use is much easier to detect that heavy marijuana use. I've had to fire many alcoholics. Not sure, but no potheads. Alcoholism is dangerous to the alcoholic and their coworkers. Pot seems to just make a person slow on the uptake. Had to fire a few of those too, but not sure if it was pot or low IQ.
Can we just admit the "Real Problem"? There is currently no way to reliably assess, on the spot, how stoned a driver is. With alcohol, we have the breathalyzer. If such a device were available, I submit, there would much less opposition to legalization.
"Using your reasoning, the prohibition of alcohol should never have been repealed. After all, what was wrong with that?"
Using reasoning you'd never have come to that conclusion.
New York Post
Hot air balloon pilot was on coke and cannabis when crashed into power lines, killing all 5 aboard
Nicholas Meleski’s “recent use” of coke and marijuana likely had “impairing effects” that contributed to the June 26, 2021, crash, the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) concluded in its final report into the deadliest balloon accident in New Mexico’s history.
The 62-year-old pilot did not maintain enough clearance from the power lines and struck them while trying to land in Albuquerque, according to the NTSB, which found no evidence of mechanical malfunctions or failures.
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