२० ऑगस्ट, २०२३

"[Ron] DeSantis, 44, is not the first Republican politician of his generation to rail against his own Ivy League degrees while milking them for access and campaign cash."

"But now, as he seeks the Republican presidential nomination, he is molding his entire campaign and political persona around a vengeful war against what he calls the country’s 'ruling class': an incompetent, unaccountable elite of bureaucrats, journalists, educators and other supposed 'experts' whose pernicious and unearned authority the governor has vowed to vanquish...."


I see no problem with a young person taking advantage of elite education and then rejecting its values. Who better to challenge the "ruling class" than someone who's had a direct experience with it? If education is any good it equips you to go on to pursue your own goals. Does the NYT think the students are supposed to absorb indoctrination and then go on to be loyal to the elite?

I remember when students who rebelled against authority were praised. They weren't denigrated as "vengeful." They were filled with righteous indignation and admirable commitment to their own values. But I'm remembering when the rebelling students were to the left of their professors. 

Going back a little further, to 1951, there was a 25-year-old William F. Buckley Jr., writing "God and Man at Yale: The Superstitions of 'Academic Freedom.'" Buckley "criticized Yale for forcing collectivist, Keynesian, and secularist ideology on students, criticizing several professors by name, arguing that they tried to break down students' religious beliefs through their hostility to religion and that Yale was denying its students any sense of individualism by forcing them to embrace the ideas of liberalism."

Again, what's bad about criticizing your alma mater?

Back to the DeSantis article, we're told some grisly details from his fraternity hazing days:
After entering one at a time, each [pledge] was blindfolded and ordered to drop his pants, with Mr. DeSantis, other brothers, and at least one female guest on hand to mock their genitalia. One of the pledges recalled that a blender was placed between his legs and abruptly turned on to scare him, splashing water on his groin. During the fraternity’s “hell week,” pledges wore costumes smeared with rotten food and condiments. They might be ordered to simulate sex with one another or do outdoor calisthenics in the winter air. According to four former pledges and brothers, Mr. DeSantis required one pledge, for whom he served as “father,” to wear a pair of baseball pants with the back and thighs cut out, exposing his buttocks and genitals. 

And I was interested in the NYT's portrayal of Harvard Law School as not left-wing at all by the time DeSantis arrived (in 2002):

Faculty battles over critical legal studies had unfolded vividly at Harvard Law in the 1970s and 1980s, but by the time Mr. DeSantis arrived a quarter-century later, the approach had reached a nadir. Harvard students of his era were more drawn to the discipline of law and economics, advanced by conservative legal scholars.... In interviews, some of his conservative classmates recalled being reluctant to express their political views in class. But far more described Harvard as intellectually open and committed to ideological diversity. 

“The picture DeSantis gives is just not right — it’s kind of a cliché about Harvard, and it’s simply not true,” said Charles Fried, a longtime Harvard Law professor and a faculty sponsor of Harvard’s chapter of the Federalist Society, the influential conservative legal organization. “He must have known it, because everyone knew it.”

७५ टिप्पण्या:

Michael K म्हणाले...

I always rely on the NY Times to tell me the truth about the ruling class.

Iman म्हणाले...

“Does the NYT think the students are supposed to absorb indoctrination and then go on to be loyal to the elite?”

Yes. Next question…

Tofu King म्हणाले...

It's a NYT hit piece. Logic or ideological consistency is not required.

Tom म्हणाले...

I’ve heard of ΔΚΕ at other schools doing similar hazing.

The fraternity I’m a member of didn’t do anything like that in the 90s. But I’m guessing in the 80s at Yale, the hazing was insane. The richer and more elite the school, the worse the hazing appeared to be.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne म्हणाले...

Does the NYT think the students are supposed to absorb indoctrination and then go on to be loyal to the elite?

Yes, they do. They view DeSantis, and Trump, as class traitors.

Jaq म्हणाले...

They will be nice to Ron, don't worry, it's just Trump that they will attack non stop in every news story with dishonest and heavily slanted takes. Did you hear that there is a local sheriff in Florida seeking kidnapping charges against DeSantis over the Martha's Vineyard thing? That's right, kidnapping is a serious felony.

Wait until you see what they have cooked up for the Swami, if he somehow gets a chance at the nomination. I don't know what it will be yet, but you can bet that he has done something that they can sell as a felony to the haters. Maybe they can drag him into the RICO case for criticizing the prosecution, or something. That's an act in furtherance of a scheme, if ever there was one!

Temujin म्हणाले...

"“He must have known it, because everyone knew it.”

This immediately made me think of the famous quote attributed to Pauline Kael, “I can’t believe Nixon won. I don’t know anyone who voted for him.”

Their bubble is thick. And throughout, it's impossible for them to even grasp that the rest of the country has much more information than they do, and has come to very different conclusions.

For what it's worth, in the 2020 election, the Harvard faculty donated $317,835 to the Biden campaign, and an additional $115,000 to the DNC. (these numbers from the Harvard Crimson). And I am sure there was much more donated than that, to other related groups.
By comparison, there were a total of 5 faculty members who donated to Trump in that election for a total of $3,030.

I'm sure this was a one-off for the intellectually open and ideologically diverse faculty at Harvard. Just kidding.

Jaq म्हणाले...

Florida got shorted two Congressional seats and electoral votes due to what was likely a deliberate miscount in the past census, which Biden quickly took control of when he took office.

https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/report/census-bureau-errors-distort-congressional-representation-the-states

Surely it's a felony to deny the civil rights of an entire state, and crimes were almost certainly committed in promulgating this fraud by the Biden Administration. DeSantis's donors have no interest in that one. This isn't going to stop until we make them pay. Let Ron work on that.

The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...

I've been wrestling with the issue of biting the hand that feeds over at TMR over the Michael Oher story.

I'm in favor of it.

Ambrose म्हणाले...

And ivy league educated Democrats, like Obama, pretend to be champions of the working class.

Dave Begley म्हणाले...

This is the best the NYT can do? What about his high school yearbook? Or the rape parties in the frat house?

Don't forget that Ron was at Yale to play baseball. He was an athlete and from a Catholic blue collar family. He was't going to get sucked into the East Coast liberal elite clan.

At Creighton, the baseball players had games all the time; every weekend was a three game series. They didn't have time to fool around.

And he wasn't Skull and Bones! What to make of that?

BTW, the liberal East Coast elites have failed for the last 50 years. Time for new blood; either Ron or Vivek. And, yes, I know. Vivek is Harvard undergrad and Yale Law, but he's a total outsider.

Amadeus 48 म्हणाले...

The usual smears served up as usual. Remember the frat boy stories served up about Romney, W Bush, and Bret Kavanaugh?

Yawn.

DeSantis for President.

tolkein म्हणाले...

"the country’s 'ruling class': an incompetent, unaccountable elite of bureaucrats, journalists, educators and other supposed 'experts' whose pernicious and unearned authority.."

Applies to UK as well.

I'd count as one of the elite in UK. Went to private school, educated at Cambridge, but have always worked in the private sector. I believe, from my daily life, that the ruling class is, by and large, full of self declared experts who largely work in the public sector. I meet them and deal with them on a regular basis. Like the Soviet intelligentsia, or nomenklatura, they despise and fear the actual working class. In the US, do you think that if the election is close in Pennsylvania and Arizona and Wisconsin (all Democrat Governors) that the Republican nominee will win?

I don't think DeSantis will be the nominee and fear that whoever will be(unless Trump) will find their lives turned upside down and subjected to personal attacks.and lawsuits they cannot imagine now. I understand DeSantis served in Iraq. I'm sure bravely and well. But wait until the opposition research is published.

papper म्हणाले...

I went to Columbia, not Harvard, at around the same time and I am calling BS. I don't believe that any of the Ivies was a place that conservatives felt comfortable expressing their views without repurcussions. That Charles Fried, someone employed at Harvard disagrees, doesn't mean anything to me.

Mr Wibble म्हणाले...

Does the NYT think the students are supposed to absorb indoctrination and then go on to be loyal to the elite?

Narrator: They do, in fact, think that students are supposed to absorb indoctrination and then go on to be loyal to the elite.

rehajm म्हणाले...

The institutions don't care. You would be shocked how phony the public vs private personae of Harvard folks is. Remember the curly hair DNC lady making headlines roasting Bain Capital on the morning shows? She was at Bain later that very day picking up the checks from the partners...

It's like that, If they start throwing their own alumni under the bus the jig is up, and they all know it...

ga6 म्हणाले...

We bought you, so stay bought!!!

Gahrie म्हणाले...

Does the NYT think the students are supposed to absorb indoctrination and then go on to be loyal to the elite?

This is rhetorical, right?

boatbuilder म्हणाले...

"...the country’s 'ruling class': an incompetent, unaccountable elite of bureaucrats, journalists, educators and other supposed 'experts' whose pernicious and unearned authority the governor has vowed to vanquish...."

Credit where credit is due--those NYT writers got it right this time.

Original Mike म्हणाले...

"I remember when students who rebelled against authority were praised."

It has been the biggest mystery of my adult life watching friends and acquaintances who started out railing against "the man" becoming loyal apparatchiks. I truly don't understand how this has happened.

Sebastian म्हणाले...

"a vengeful war against what he calls the country’s 'ruling class'"

Vengeful! "What he calls"! 'Ruling class,' scare quotes included! Damn traitor.

"an incompetent, unaccountable elite of bureaucrats, journalists, educators and other supposed 'experts' whose pernicious and unearned authority"

Right. Does the NYT mean to imply that they are competent, accoutnable, non-elite, actual experts with safe and well-earned authority? On what basis?

From "How Ron DeSantis Joined the ‘Ruling Class’ — and Turned Against It/Over the years, Mr. DeSantis embraced and exploited

"Does the NYT think the students are supposed to absorb indoctrination and then go on to be loyal to the elite?"

Well, yes. Just like it expects everyone else to absorb indoctrination and submit. The very fact that any Republican campaigns at all is deplorable.

"I remember when students who rebelled against authority were praised. They weren't denigrated as "vengeful." They were filled with righteous indignation and admirable commitment to their own values. But I'm remembering when the rebelling students were to the left of their professors."

Funny stuff. Of course the praise was always contingent on being left enough. Praise and denigration are just prog tools. progs never did favor free speech or rebellion or standing up to the Man as such. They want power, and once they get it, they want submission, or else.

"Again, what's bad about criticizing your alma mater?"

Love those faux-naive questions. Nothing's bad about it, except it's all bad when heretics and traitors ever so slightly challenge undisturbed prog rule.

“He must have known it, because everyone knew it.”

That's how academic "conservatives" treat conservative candidates, fighitng the good fight side by side. It's so mean of DeSantis to treat Harvard as progressive fortress! A hundred flowers bloom there, just as under Mao.

अनामित म्हणाले...

Does the NYT think the students are supposed to absorb indoctrination and then go on to be loyal to the elite? Seriously, Prof. Althouse?

Mary Beth म्हणाले...

because everyone knew it

I am immediately skeptical of things "everyone knows" when everyone knowing it is the main evidence for its truth.

Original Mike म्हणाले...

"Back to the DeSantis article, we're told some grisly details from his fraternity hazing days:"

But did he put his dog on top of his car?

Why is it we never hear of these "grisly details" of the democrat candidates?

boatbuilder म्हणाले...

Also--any stories about Disantis forcibly giving someone a haircut? Or putting a dog on the roof of his car?

The same old playbook.

Also--I don't recall Disantis referencing his Ivy League degrees as a particular selling point for his campaign. He seems to focus more on his performance as Governor and his military service. (As well he should, since they have far more relevance to the job he is seeking, despite what the NYT writers may believe).

n.n म्हणाले...

diversity (e.g. color judgment, class bigotry), elitism, and indoctrination (DEI)

gilbar म्हणाले...

I keep seeing commercials here in iowa, saying
yeah Trump was The Most Best President.. EVER; but you shouldn't support him because then he'll LOSE!

I'm not sure Who is paying for these, but they are USUALLY followed by a DeSantis commercial which ALWAYS tell us that he played baseball at Yale and that he was a Iraqi War veteran, and that therefore we should support Biden's war in the Ukraine or something.

I am MARKEDLY MORE AGAINST DeSantis now that the DeSantis people have kept reminding me that he:
a) went to Yale
b) supports the DH rule
c) thinks that being a lawyer (REMF) in Baghdad gives him credit
d) thinks that being PRO Ukrainian Proxy War makes him a better candidate than Trump

Again, The commercials that get me (whoever is making them), are the ones saying:
Trump was The Most Best President EVER!! Don't support HIM! he will LOSE!!

ps. How many republicans got more votes for President (or Anything ELSE) than Donald Trump has?
if The Most Best President EVER can't win.. WHO CAN??

Rabel म्हणाले...

Whatever he was in the Reagan years, the effort by the Times to present the 88 year old Charles Fried as a conservative now due to his connection with the Federalist Society is misleading.

phantommut म्हणाले...

Does the NYT think the students are supposed to absorb indoctrination and then go on to be loyal to the elite?

Yes.

JK Brown म्हणाले...

The NYT is lamenting a long common scenario. The "educated" people come to the fore in times of change.

But in this specific example:
“The principle value of holding a Harvard degree is never again having to be being impressed by a Harvard degree”--Thomas Sowell

But then there is this:

This business of petty inconvenience and indignity, of being kept waiting about, of having to do everything at other people's convenience, is inherent in working-class life. A thousand influences constantly press a working man down into * passive role. He does not act, he is acted upon. He feels himself the slave of mysterious authority and has a firm conviction that " they " will never allow him to do this, that and the other. Once when I was hop-picking I asked the sweated pickers (they earn something under sixpence an hour) why they did not form a union. I was told immediately that " they " would never allow it. Who were " they " ? I asked. Nobody seemed to know; but evidently " they " were omnipotent.

A person of bourgeois origin goes through life with some expectation of getting what he wants, within reasonable limits. Hence the fact that in times of stress "educated " people tend to come to the front; they are no more gifted than the others and their " education " is generally quite useless in itself, but they are accustomed to a certain amount of deference and consequently have the cheek necessary to a commander.
--George Orwell, 'Road to Wigan Pier'

Michael Fitzgerald म्हणाले...

"It has been the biggest mystery of my adult life watching friends and acquaintances who started out railing against "the man" becoming loyal apparatchiks. I truly don't understand how this has happened."

What happened was the commies, the socialists, the student radicals, the anti-American leftists, the far-left democrat party has taken over. America is no longer governed by the stout and stodgy sober white men in suits and horn-rimmed glasses. America is governed by the wicked children of these men. The ungodly, insolent, rebellious, deceitful and ungrateful have been fighting against this nation for generations, and now they are finally in charge of every bureaucracy, institution and organization. Those libs who spent their lives railing against "The Man" no longer do so because "The Man" has been overthrown, and now they are The Man, and they like it that way.

rehajm म्हणाले...

Why is it we never hear of these "grisly details" of the democrat candidates?

Because there are dead bodies...

rehajm म्हणाले...

Also--any stories about Disantis forcibly giving someone a haircut? Or putting a dog on the roof of his car?

I heard he strapped Goofy to the roof of Bubba Wallace's car at Daytona and forced Minnie Mouse to give Goofy the haircut...

Prof. M. Drout म्हणाले...

The thing about fraternity hazing stories--and I speak from experience--is that most of them aren't true. 90+% of the stories that get told of horrible, gross, sexual things that were done to pledges are made up by older brothers for the sole purpose of scaring the pledges. I remember being pulled aside and told horror stories about what was done in my own fraternity, only to discover that none of those things happened. And then I myself told similar invented horror stories to people I knew couldn't keep a "secret," so that they'd tell pledges and scare the heck out of them about... nothing.
The thing is, the purpose of any "hazing" is to make sure people are committed to the group before you let them fully join it and to bond together the new members, who join because they like the old members and often don't initially like each other. Imaginary hazing is the best kind because it chases away the uncommitted without actually harming anyone.
After all, you don't want to recruit / turn people into disgusting deviants; you don't want to actually traumatize your future brothers; and normal guys do not want to see other guys' genitals, etc. For these reasons and others I strongly doubt many of the more grisly stories. Also, actual hazing was 100% illegal as well as barred by national fraternity organizations at least as long ago as 1986, and although you may think "Well, the fraternities would just ignore it" (and some idiots do), the person you chase off by actual illegal hazing is EXACTLY the person who would report it to the authorities. If us dumb frat guys at Carnegie Mellon knew that in 1986, I'm sure the elite geniuses at Harvard and Yale knew it also (ok, I'm not sure that they're elite geniuses, though I'm sure the NYT is sure).

Charlie Currie म्हणाले...

DeSantis is pretending. He is completely owned by the GOPe unipart wall street globalist elite. They'll let him spew whatever he wants to fool the public and get elected. Then he'll be their puppet, just like Biden. The country will continue in the same direction, just maybe at a slightly slower pace.

Leland म्हणाले...

I think to the point, the NYT think students are supposed to be loyal to the elite.

Whatever, on the Biden drug post earlier, I can just remember Biden talking tough about the crime bill he supported as a younger Senator and all things he professed to believe then that would put his son and daughter in prison for a long time now. Talk about turning against supposedly held ideals...

walter म्हणाले...

Any boofing in his youth?

n.n म्हणाले...

"grisly details" of the democrat candidates?

Because there are dead bodies...


Social progress is a compelling conspiracy of lust and abortion. Speaking of which, is pedophilia a protected sexual orientation under federal law? I saw a commercial by .gov and recall the lies behind the empathetic appeal.

Quaestor म्हणाले...

Althouse writes, "Does the NYT think the students are supposed to absorb indoctrination and then go on to be loyal to the elite?"

Yes, that's what the NYT and all soi-disant progressives must believe. Anything other than absolute indoctrination and unconditional loyalty is mortal heresy meriting death (if no one is looking).

Rocco म्हणाले...

"According to four former pledges and brothers, Mr. DeSantis required one pledge, for whom he served as 'father', to wear a pair of baseball pants with the back and thighs cut out, exposing his buttocks and genitals."

Did the pledge thank Ron for teaching him how to dress for Coachella?

Mr Wibble म्हणाले...

Florida got shorted two Congressional seats and electoral votes due to what was likely a deliberate miscount in the past census, which Biden quickly took control of when he took office... DeSantis's donors have no interest in that one. This isn't going to stop until we make them pay. Let Ron work on that.

If we had a serious GOP they'd be fighting tooth and nail to get the Census redone. Make it part of the platform for 2024: a proper census to replace the one which was mismanaged, and which actually asks questions about citizenship.

Ann Althouse म्हणाले...

"But I’m guessing in the 80s at Yale, the hazing was insane."

DeSantis graduated from Yale in 2001.

Kakistocracy म्हणाले...

There's an important element of the Trump vs DeSantis contest that usually gets overlooked, and that is its class element. It is complicated, so it is not immediately easy to grasp. But it boils down to this: Trump and DeSantis are very much alike in that they both have an obvious, seething contempt for the rest of the human race, but Trump wears his with to-the-manor-born insouciance, while DeSantis is possessed of the unmistakable, grating insecurity of the parvenu.

In this respect, DeSantis is reminiscent of Nixon, who famously said "I've earned everything I've got." Nixon and DeSantis represent a type of personality (with the caveat that Nixon was a greatly more talented politician than DeSantis is). DeSantis, like Nixon, has spent his entire political career serving the interests of the rich, who he simultaneously resents because he had to "work his way" into one of their schools, learning and adapting to their mores. And he simultaneously sees himself as having crawled out of the muck, the common dregs of humanity who he also can't stand because he looks down on them with a kind of self-loathing recognition.

The difficulty for DeSantis is that despite all the Horatio Alger mythology about the "self-made man" in conservative US ideology, the typical Republican voter actually hates guys like that. There are a handful of ladder-climbing strivers who see in DeSantis something of themselves. (The TV show Mad Men has a memorable scene, set in 1960, in which the up-and-coming protagonist Don Draper says: "Kennedy, I see a silver spoon; Nixon, I see myself.") But that is not most people.

This is the perennial problem for politicians on the right who have to face elections. The right, by definition, exists to defend the interests of the rich and powerful. Its policies are against the interests of the majority of the population. Conservative politicians somehow have to cobble together enough votes to get elected to enact their unpopular policies. To do that, they need to divide the working class through appeals to various hatreds: racism, nativism, sexism, etc. There simply aren't enough prosperous strivers to support conservative politicians otherwise.

So the psychology of the working-class voter who supports the right is not, in fact, a so-called "populist" who "distrusts authority." On the contrary: they love to submit to authority, to personalities they see as greater than theirs. Trump has successfully cultivated that image for himself. These people want other workers, especially poor people, to be crushed under the boot, and they don't want a middle manager to do it. They like seeing the boss himself do it, and they even like seeing the boss having a little fun at the middle manager's expense, too. When Trump tells jokes at DeSantis's expense, they will laugh loudly. They like Trump because he acts the way they imagine they'd like to act if they were rich, banging porn stars with a crass joie de vivre; DeSantis, by contrast, is humorless.

Michael K म्हणाले...

I wouldn't mind the ruling class so much if they were only competent at something beside enriching themselves.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

"But now, as he seeks the Republican presidential nomination, he is molding his entire campaign and political persona around a vengeful war against what he calls the country’s 'ruling class': an incompetent, unaccountable elite of bureaucrats, journalists, educators and other supposed 'experts' whose pernicious and unearned authority the governor has vowed to vanquish...."



Fine with me. Trump did a terrible job vanquishing the very bureaucratic crap that is destroying our nation.
But stay true the the dick-stepper!

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

If you can get thru ivy league and come out non-indoctrinated...non-hivemind - things could be worse.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

Rich - said...

" But it boils down to this: Trump and DeSantis are very much alike in that they both have an obvious, seething contempt for the rest of the human race, but "

Ah... the leftist loyalist hiveminder tells us who he is most fearful of.

Rich - do tell us your feelings and thoughts toward the Crook Biden family.

Darkisland म्हणाले...

Who better to challenge the "ruling class" than someone who's had a direct experience with it


You mean like our president emeritus? Who's had more experience DeSantis or pedjt?

Even better, much of pdjt's experience has been battling them as an outsider rather than trying to suck up to them like DeSantis

John Henry

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

Rich's comment is a perfect example of how the collective left hive-mind understand that Ron DeSantis is much more scary than Trump... DeSantis is a threat to the elite and the D-loyalist party's demand for one-party power and decline.

rehajm म्हणाले...

"But I’m guessing in the 80s at Yale, the hazing was insane."

Do Skull and Bones mud wrestle with the women and lay them naked out on the slab?

papper म्हणाले...

For all of Trump loyalists out there. Trump cares for no one other than himself. He did nothing for the January 6 protestesters, e.g., issue pardons,and many languish in prison either awaiting trial or with long prison sentences issued by kangaroo courts. Giuliani is reported to go hat in hand to ask Trump to help pay his legal bills. At the same time, Trump's political donors are footing the bill for his legal defense. Yes I know, Trump is being persecuted for our sins. Yes, Trump was an effective president pre-covid, but flubbed covid badly by outsourcing to Fauci. But you all can keep hating on DeSantis who with governor Kemp led the way to reopening the country.

Mason G म्हणाले...

"The country will continue in the same direction, just maybe at a slightly slower pace."

Progressives want to go 20 steps left while the establishment Republicans only want to go 5 steps in that direction. Either way, the destination is the same yet the GOPe idiots can't figure out why conservatives won't line up behind them when "they're not as bad as the Democrats".

Well, it's true they're not but just in the sense that a shit sandwich with one turd is not as bad as the sandwich with two.

Dave Begley म्हणाले...

Rich wrote, " The right, by definition, exists to defend the interests of the rich and powerful. Its policies are against the interests of the majority of the population. Conservative politicians somehow have to cobble together enough votes to get elected to enact their unpopular policies."

What a laugher! Who benefits most from the Green New Deal a/k/a the Inflation Reduction Act? The rich! The get the federal income tax credits. The Street underwrites the debt and equity.

Who gets hurt the most by the Green New Deal? Us plebians with triple electric rates and being forced to buy EVs.

Rabel म्हणाले...

“When I get people that submit résumés,” he said, “quite frankly, if I got one from Yale I would be negatively disposed.”

That's a dick move. Say what you will about our "elite"universities, but without those Ivy League degrees to get his career started he wouldn't be Governor of Florida. Maybe a regional manager for Publix*.

He's bumping his head against his ceiling right now in his ambitious quest for the Presidency.

*That's not to say that a regional manager for Publix couldn't be a good President. But he'd have to get elected first.

papper म्हणाले...

One more thing, why am I supposed to believe the New York Times about hazing stories that happened 20 or more years ago.

papper म्हणाले...

One more thing, why am I supposed to believe the New York Times about hazing stories that happened 20 or more years ago.

Jim at म्हणाले...

8/20/23, 3:36 PM

Weapons-grade projection right there, hPudding.

Freder Frederson म्हणाले...

I wouldn't mind the ruling class so much if they were only competent at something beside enriching themselves.

This from a man who used his family connections to avoid going to Vietnam, and is a retired surgeon.

If you want to see the ruling class, look in the fucking mirror.

Freder Frederson म्हणाले...

Florida got shorted two Congressional seats and electoral votes due to what was likely a deliberate miscount in the past census, which Biden quickly took control of when he took office.

Biden, really?! You do remember that Trump did everything he could to fuck up the 2020 (which was conducted under Trump's administration). Biden had a fucking pile of shit census that had to be cleaned up.

William म्हणाले...

Passing thoughts: Did DeSantis get ratted out by a fellow frat brother? Aren't frat brothers supposed to be loyal to each other?....If that's the way members of the elite treat each other, how can we expect them to treat us plebes any better?...@Rich: Did you ever wonder why we knew every unwelcome thing that Nixon ever did or why we never learned of any of Kennedy's many excesses until years later. I would have preferred the our President not to negotiate the missile crisis while hopped up on Dr. Feelgood's prescriptions....I don't blame JFK for sleeping with Marilyn Monroe, but the whole concept of ordering an intern to give one of your subordinates a blowjob is creepy beyond comprehension. I don't think even Clinton would be that grotesque.....Our Iviest President was Woodrow Wilson. He condescended to leave his presidency of Princeton to become Governor of NJ and later President of the United States. He was one of the founders of the modern Democratic Party. While President of Princeton he was unable to resolve a dispute among warring frats and dining clubs there, but he learned from this experience and was thus able to go on to arbitrate a just and lasting peace among European nations at Versailles. (s/) He is perhaps best know today not for the many books he wrote, but for his heroic efforts to reinstate segregation in the federal service and in Washington DC.....Wilson, in his era, was universally admired by the our smart set, and Harding, Wilson's successor, was to an equal extent despised by those same people. It's worth noting that while in the Senate, Harding had proposed a bill to make lynching a federal crime. Wilson had opposed that bill. It went nowhere. Wilson did champion progressive causes like the graduated income tax and the FDA, so he can take credit for taxes and carbs....The yobs are wrong about a lot of things, but they've got a somewhat better batting average than the elite.

William म्हणाले...

Passing thoughts: Did DeSantis get ratted out by a fellow frat brother? Aren't frat brothers supposed to be loyal to each other?....If that's the way members of the elite treat each other, how can we expect them to treat us plebes any better?...@Rich: Did you ever wonder why we knew every unwelcome thing that Nixon ever did or why we never learned of any of Kennedy's many excesses until years later. I would have preferred the our President not to negotiate the missile crisis while hopped up on Dr. Feelgood's prescriptions....I don't blame JFK for sleeping with Marilyn Monroe, but the whole concept of ordering an intern to give one of your subordinates a blowjob is creepy beyond comprehension. I don't think even Clinton would be that grotesque.....Our Iviest President was Woodrow Wilson. He condescended to leave his presidency of Princeton to become Governor of NJ and later President of the United States. He was one of the founders of the modern Democratic Party. While President of Princeton he was unable to resolve a dispute among warring frats and dining clubs there, but he learned from this experience and was thus able to go on to arbitrate a just and lasting peace among European nations at Versailles. (s/) He is perhaps best know today not for the many books he wrote, but for his heroic efforts to reinstate segregation in the federal service and in Washington DC.....Wilson, in his era, was universally admired by the our smart set, and Harding, Wilson's successor, was to an equal extent despised by those same people. It's worth noting that while in the Senate, Harding had proposed a bill to make lynching a federal crime. Wilson had opposed that bill. It went nowhere. Wilson did champion progressive causes like the graduated income tax and the FDA, so he can take credit for taxes and carbs....The yobs are wrong about a lot of things, but they've got a somewhat better batting average than the elite.

Sebastian म्हणाले...

Saving these prog classics:

"Trump and DeSantis are very much alike in that they both have an obvious, seething contempt for the rest of the human race"

"In this respect, DeSantis is reminiscent of Nixon, who famously said "I've earned everything I've got.""

"DeSantis, like Nixon, has spent his entire political career serving the interests of the rich, who he simultaneously resents because he had to "work his way" into one of their schools, learning and adapting to their mores"

"he simultaneously sees himself as having crawled out of the muck, the common dregs of humanity who he also can't stand because he looks down on them with a kind of self-loathing recognition"

"the typical Republican voter actually hates guys like that"

"The right, by definition, exists to defend the interests of the rich and powerful. Its policies are against the interests of the majority of the population."

"they need to divide the working class through appeals to various hatreds: racism, nativism, sexism, etc. There simply aren't enough prosperous strivers to support conservative politicians otherwise"

"they love to submit to authority, to personalities they see as greater than theirs"

"These people want other workers, especially poor people, to be crushed under the boot"

Hey y'all, how 'bout we meet at Rich's place and do our Q-Anon thing? Give him a few doses of our racism and nativism and sexism? Display a bit of our boot-licking/boot-crushing fetish? That should keep him going for a few years, doncha think?

Bruce Hayden म्हणाले...

“The thing about fraternity hazing stories--and I speak from experience--is that most of them aren't true. 90+% of the stories that get told of horrible, gross, sexual things that were done to pledges are made up by older brothers for the sole purpose of scaring the pledges. I remember being pulled aside and told horror stories about what was done in my own fraternity, only to discover that none of those things happened. And then I myself told similar invented horror stories to people I knew couldn't keep a "secret," so that they'd tell pledges and scare the heck out of them about... nothing.”

As he said, pledgeship, He’ll Week, and initiation is for bonding. It works. I am still close to several fraternity brothers, despite having graduated over a half century ago. It’s the shared experience that does it. And it’s never as bad as it is portrayed. A lot of that is male boasting. Look at us - we survived this horrible process. At least for us, it is carefully orchestrated for maximum fear, for minimum risk. I know this because our House leadership (I was chapter President for one initiation) discussed the process every year, and we’re always tweaking it.

One of the surprising benefits of the Greek (fraternity and sorority) system is that you tend to leave college with a lot more long term friends. Throughout that half century, at the reunions (every 5 years), well over half of those attending were Greeks, when we were under 1/4 of the class. You go to these reunions, and the GDIs (non Greeks) often look lost, looking for anyone they knew. Call a couple days ago that we had just lost another fraternity brother. This last year has been rough with too many deaths (most, I think, from COVID-19 vaccine side effects) and the chapter presidents just enforce and after me sliding into dementia.

Bruce Hayden म्हणाले...

" But it boils down to this: Trump and DeSantis are very much alike in that they both have an obvious, seething contempt for the rest of the human race, but "

The worst kind of projection. It’s just the opposite of reality. GW Bush reportedly knew everyone on the WH staff (including SS), would address them by name, and ask about their family members by name. Trump was very much the same. Day after his nomination, he had a televised meeting of those who made it possible, and he called them out, many by name, for their contributions. He lauded the carpenters who built the stage, the various security agencies involved, etc. First of a kind. Crooked Hillary was just the opposite, when she was First Lady. There was a standing order in the WH personal quarters that when they met her in the halls, they were to stand back against the wall, and never, ever, make eye contact. So much for the common touch. SS duty for FJB is considered, if anything, worse. It’s considered a hardship post, and esp by female agents. I expect that VP Harris is just as bad. We essentially live this summer in a Trump hotel, and the entire staff is extraordinarily loyal to the family. Eric, the son running it, is, of course, on a first name basis, with the staff despite only showing up once or twice a month.

Bruce Hayden म्हणाले...

“Rich's comment is a perfect example of how the collective left hive-mind understand that Ron DeSantis is much more scary than Trump... DeSantis is a threat to the elite and the D-loyalist party's demand for one-party power and decline.”

I think that it is more the Deep State that fears DeSantis. He has shown what he can do in FL. Instead of letting his medical establishment run him around in circles, as Fauci, Collins, the CDC, FDA, did with Trump, DeSantis put a strong partisan in office as his Surgeon General, who filed suit against companies, organizations pushing mandates, masking, and vaccines, etc. he knows how to fire those in the beaucracy standing in the way, and replace them with his loyalists. And esp worrisome is what he might do with the DOJ and FBI. He has experience there, as a USA, so knows how it works, and doesn’t work.

Original Mike म्हणाले...

Blogger Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said..."Rich's comment is a perfect example of how …"

Comment? It's a freakin' dissertation. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that it actually is from his dissertation. Is that what they taught you about conservatives back 30 years ago when you were in college, Rich?

"The right, by definition, exists to defend the interests of the rich and powerful. Its policies are against the interests of the majority of the population. ". You need to join the 21st century, buddy. Your side has cornered the market on rich and powerful.

I love the lefties, hpudding is another one, who come here and explain conservatism to us. It's a hoot.

Witness म्हणाले...

pretending not to be elite is a favorite elite pastime

chickelit म्हणाले...

Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...
“Rich's comment is a perfect example of how the collective left hive-mind understand that Ron DeSantis is much more scary than Trump... DeSantis is a threat to the elite and the D-loyalist party's demand for one-party power and decline.”

Rich doesn’t get how California and its one-party rule model for America is the key ballot issue next election. That model will fail miserably. Rich doesn’t get that we are not a nation of Willie Brown protegeé followers: No Harris and Newsom foistings.

Michael K म्हणाले...


Blogger Rich said...

There's an important element of the Trump vs DeSantis contest that usually gets overlooked, and that is its class element. It is complicated, so it is not immediately easy to grasp. But it boils down to this: Trump and DeSantis are very much alike in that they both have an obvious, seething contempt for the rest of the human race, but Trump wears his with to-the-manor-born insouciance, while DeSantis is possessed of the unmistakable, grating insecurity of the parvenu.


"Rich" get back on your meds. Your bullshit quotient is way over the limit. They, and us, have contempt for your conniving, lying masters. I just hope the pay is worth the disgrace you are.

Narayanan म्हणाले...

what does his wife Casey think ?

Jim at म्हणाले...

This exchange cannot be repeated often enough. Cut, paste, save and use it.

I deal with the same thing. Fitz nails it.

It has been the biggest mystery of my adult life watching friends and acquaintances who started out railing against "the man" becoming loyal apparatchiks. I truly don't understand how this has happened.

"What happened was the commies, the socialists, the student radicals, the anti-American leftists, the far-left democrat party has taken over. America is no longer governed by the stout and stodgy sober white men in suits and horn-rimmed glasses. America is governed by the wicked children of these men. The ungodly, insolent, rebellious, deceitful and ungrateful have been fighting against this nation for generations, and now they are finally in charge of every bureaucracy, institution and organization. Those libs who spent their lives railing against "The Man" no longer do so because "The Man" has been overthrown, and now they are The Man, and they like it that way."

Jim at म्हणाले...

I admit, it's fun reading Freder's posts when he's drunk.

Original Mike म्हणाले...

Blogger Jim at said...
"8/20/23, 3:36 PM

Weapons-grade projection right there, hPudding."
(emphasis added)

Of course! {slaps forehead}

GRW3 म्हणाले...

The old Vulcan saying "Only Nixon could go to China" is operable here. It might well take a member of the club to break their hold.

Gahrie म्हणाले...

the GDIs (non Greeks)

GDI means God damned independents. I pissed off the Greekies at my school by having a hoodie made with gamma delta iota on it that looked just like their frat hoodies.