Writes Blythe Roberson, in "I Let My Boyfriend Dress Me For an Entire Year/When I asked my stylish sweetie to help me dress better, it sometimes felt like negotiating with the patriarchy in real time. But now, I have a new understanding of what it means to feel desired and understood—and a killer wardrobe, too" (Esquire).
[B]ut I felt like he didn’t understand that I didn’t want to be hot in a sexy lady kind of way—I wanted to be hot in a “Patti Smith living in the Chelsea Hotel secretly having incredible boobs” kind of way....
I highly recommend being a woman who talks to a male lover about female fashion. It gave him and I a project, a whole new sphere of things to discuss.... It felt so novel to walk through a women’s clothing store with a man, referencing a tweet about how women these days have two fashion options, milkmaid or ‘90s rave slut, and to look at dresses together whispering, “Milkmaid. Milkmaid. Milkmaid.”...
After a year of being styled by my lover, I have thought and talked about fashion more than I ever had in my life.... I pushed outside my comfort zone and learned to like new things—a disorienting process for a straight woman who doesn’t want to lose herself to a man, but also, I think, an under-appreciated aspect of romantic and sexual relationships....
Much more at the link, including consideration of the movie "Vertigo."
पोस्ट्स
९८ टिप्पण्या:
And the result is always, always being sexualized.' I had hoped for high fashion (strange knits, elegant linens, statement…. vests, I don’t know!), not 'How To Be A Pretty Lady 101.'"
So what you really you had hoped was that your boyfriend was secretly a woman.
The more attractive she is, the more stuff she can get.
Men like sexy women
Film at 11
"Be my stylist! What do you like seeing me in?" And the result is always, always being sexualized.' I had hoped for high fashion (strange knits, elegant linens, statement…. vests, I don’t know!), not 'How To Be A Pretty Lady 101.'"
The vast majority of women can't pull off high fashion. You don't have the bodies, for it, or the attitude. Getting you up to "pretty lady 101" is the first step, then you can start adding touches of a unique style.
Let's play a game of "reverse the sexes..."
"At first, the suggestions my lover made were just funny. Right away she told me that I should be wearing less baggy clothes, sporting tailored suits, jackets and shirts that showed off my chest and arms..."
"Be my stylist! What do you like seeing me in?" And the result is always, always being sexualized.' I had hoped for comfortable (jeans, funny t-shirts, cargo pants and boots, I don’t know!), not 'How To Be A Banker 101.'"
Now do her hair.
What is it that women cannot understand? Men are visual. We get endorphin releases from our eyes! Of course we want our wives, and girlfriends to be dressed in a pleasing and sexy ways. What we have to understand is that not all women want to dress that way and that's ok. But this being styled by the patriarchy thing is bull excrement. Men are visual, always have been, always will be - it's literally written into our DNA. If my wife asked me to dress her, her ample bosom would be spilling out everywhere and everything she wore would be skin tight. She would be in the shortest skirts, and highest heels money could buy! But I don't dress my wife, she dresses herself, and I respect that. I get to see her naked anyway.
Wear shorts.
"I had hoped for high fashion (strange knits, elegant linens, statement…vests"
Vegan leather harnesses.
“Milkmaid. Milkmaid. Milkmaid.”
Absolutely this in front of a mirror three times. She appears behind you in something low cut sporting voluptuous breasts, a gallon of Vitamin D whole milk in one hand, a carrier of four 1 liter glass bottles in the other, her trusty Holstein on a leash tied to a fetchingly tight bodice. She says, "Thanks to thee for fetching me, my body or my milk is free."
How you respond is important. If you choose poorly the 90s rave slut appears. You don't want that too happen. You don't want that, no no, way too much flannel.
wait a Minute!
You're seriously telling me.. that guys, if it's left up to them; want their chix to look hot?
this must be Shocker day!!
Evocative of the "Trilby fashion" craze that emerged in England in the 1890s, inspired by George du Maurier's 1894 novel "Svengali" and the stage version adapted from it. The sinister Svengali completely remolds the beautiful young Trilby, most especially including a striking change in her wardrobe.
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Trilby%27s+dress%3A+reception%2C+inspiration+and+interpretation-a0351787104
Newsflash
Most men are dressed by their wives.
I find it touching that any woman would be surprised that her BF or spouse would like her to dress hotter. Sincere naivete is sweet.
The thing is ... women don't dress for men.
They dress for other women.
That's why it feels so refreshing allowing your partner to design your wardrobe. Now, you are dressing for him.
And yes, lesbians don't count in this discussion. They're all wearing jeans.
Is there a conflation of the patriarchy and being sexualized? If you want to have sex maybe not dress in a way that says ‘Stay away!’…
You can do the Patti Smith thing on Tuesday then tart it up on Wednesday. That’s interesting…
Bobby Flay’s daughter in their LA foodie show was a great dresser. Kim at HBS looked great- like the effing billionaire she is. Most everybody else is uh…comedic.
Patti Smith living in the Chelsea Hotel secretly having incredible boobs is not hot in any way. She dressed like a bum. She looked terrible. You would be hot in your own mind, hot to yourself.
This illustrates the point that, left to themselves, women dress to avoid the judgment of other women, and not to impress men.
She wouldn’t come close to Patti Smith…
Apparently she is the author of “How to Date Men When You Hate Men”. So, I guess her boyfriend knew that when they got together. Sounds like a challenging relationship for both…..
I remember my ex M-in-L suggesting I wear lipstick.
She knew he was cheating on me waaaay before he ever asked for a divorce.
Good for her and her honesty.
I hope she doesn't get ripped too much for her awareness of men and human sexuality.
I should be, essentially, more gender-conforming.
That's a spectacularly bad assessment of a man's thought processes.
I hope she realizes that now!
What a no win situation for the male lovers. Yikes.
Milkmaid is a great word!
And a great costume.
Also, Amish.
Dumb.
May I propose a threesome with Milkmaid and '90s Rave Slut?
I am not Laslo.
did he get her these?
Chris said...
What is it that women cannot understand? Men are visual.
important things to remember:
Women are verbal, they process Words..
Men are visual, they process Images...
This Is WHY,
Men Lie; and Women wear makeup
Does the article come complete with a “do these jeans make me look fat?” Q and A?
Hmmm...seems strange to me. I would not want my wife dressing like a porn star, or exposing herself with plunging necklines and skintight hot pants and such, as that would just make her a display for other men to ogle at, which I don't want and which would be demeaning to her. (Besides, I've never found such apparel or grooming to be particularly appealing, and I find noticeable makeup unappealing in most cases, and this is particularly so with lipstick, high heels, nail polish, etc.)
I guess I was imprinted with the more natural look of hippie chicks, given that I was entering adolescence not too long after the Summer of Love.
Thats a bit over the top
RideSpaceMountain said...
“Milkmaid. Milkmaid. Milkmaid.”
She says, "Thanks to thee for fetching me, my body or my milk is free."
mmmm Milk! Delicious WHOLE Milk!!
Not the target audience for this article.
When did Esquire become a women's magazine?
For the overwhelming majority of straight men, if you want his little soldier to reliably stand at attention, you better be somewhat "gender conforming" in your appearance. Otherwise you are going to have to search for guys with unusual fetishes or guys who don't know that they are gay.
Mr Wibble, that was hilarious. True.
Sometimes men should wear rugby shorts, too. While playing rugby.
Unless you are creationist, we have billions of years of selective pressure leading to men and women wanting to have sex with one another. Blaming this on "the patriarchy" is so naïve that it is anti-science.
That fucking word "patriarchy," oh my God.
A patriarch is a father.
When women say, "patriarchy," you're dreaming up some fantasy land that has nothing to do with reality.
For instance, Roe v. Wade (written by nine men) did not "strike a blow against the patriarchy!"
William Douglas, that randy old goat, was not a feminist.
None of them were!
Sandra Day O'Connor was a feminist. And she forced the eight men on the Supreme Court to reverse part of the opinion.
Do you know how messed up it is to sustain Roe because of "stare decisis" while you simultaneously overrule Roe? That is seriously strange.
Scalia (I paraphrase): "Could we apply stare decisis to the concept of stare decisis? Keep what you want! Throw the rest away!"
If I was writing this SNL skit, O'Connor would be played by Marie Kondo.
O'Connor was a true feminist who had zero concern for men or babies in the abortion cases. But she cared very deeply for women.
Of course, it's fucking insane to think, or write, or talk about abortion with zero thoughts in regard to babies or men.
Every pregnancy has a father. Every pregnancy has a baby.
It's biological reality.
Feminists have been in fight with biological reality for 50 years.
And now somebody (God? Satan? the Unfeeling Universe?) is now mocking the shit out of them, because that "there is no biological reality" horseshit is now being applied to women.
Welcome to the party, ladies!
At this point, what I would say about feminism is that all you did was replace sexual fantasy with insane-non-biological fantasy. Which is not nearly as much fun and has made a lot of women seriously unhappy.
Milkmaid by Vermeer.
Seems like a sort of "humble brag." Like "I don't want to just say I was hot, but my boyfriend chose to display my amazing hotness, and I reluctantly went along with it."
Pulling up some images of her, it looks like she's put on a bit of weight since her "bikini years." "But I really was hot!"
I asked my stylish sweetie to help me dress better, it sometimes felt like negotiating with the patriarchy in real time.
Oh good lord, "I asked a man to dress me and, to my great horror, I was dressed by a man!" Yeah, looking good for your partner is such a drag. "I just want to be selfish, why can't his desires conform to my selfishness?"
Guys don't want their wives and girlfriends dressed like hookers. At least not in public. Attractive, yes. Slutish, no. That's for going out. For work, dress appropriately. At home, alone and no kids, yes we want the sexy. Anyway that's my take on it. The writer could have cut the article by 90% and said the same thing I'm saying if the guy wasn't just wanting to parade her around like a trophy.
"I let my BF dress me..."
How handmaid's tale Progressive.
Personally, I found her whole approach charming. Sweet even. And ultimately, wise.
Despite having preferences and misgivings, her attitude is playful, willing to experiment and explore, and at least for the term of the experiment, give way to her other (not just her "sweetie" but her own inner other) to see where it leads. In the end, she even concedes she discovered some things she likes that she wouldn't have known otherwise.
This has less to do with male-female fashion, than with the giving and the giving in that happens in successful relationships.
If you're looking for hot Amish action
Witness (1985)
(I assume y'all have seen Witness!)
Banshee (2013-2016)
Fantastic show. Ran for 38 episodes, and each episode is like the coolest movie in the world. They ran out of momentum in the final season, which was really annoying. The hero stops being a sheriff, and he stops being a criminal, and he stops sleeping with people. What the hell? Plus they kill off my favorite bad girl, and they kidnap the bitchy transvestite and practically remove him from the show. Several bad episodes in that final season.
But the first three seasons are rocking hard. Hot Amish bad girls!
And if Roman Catholic priest and a bad girl romance is your thing, you might enjoy season 2 of Fleabag.
Both seasons are fantastic. (Feminist girl struggles to reconcile her ideology and her brain with her crazy sex drive and attraction to unsuitable partners).
"Do you want to give me tips for dressing better?”
Lesson #1: a man has to be asked. None would volunteer. A smart man would decline. "Honey, your own taste is so much better!"
"knew how to sew. He owned Gucci shoes, Dries Van Noten Shirts, and Missoni towels nicer than most of my clothes. He was a working artist"
Uh, oh. Are we sure this is a "boyfriend"?
"I had hoped for high fashion . . . not “How To Be A Pretty Lady 101.”
IOW, as others have noted, stuff other women like vs. stuff men like.
"lounging in bed, him in his pajama outfit of a mint green Nike athleisure suit"
Hmm. "Boyfriend"?
"negotiating with the patriarchy"
Translation: taking into account what actual men actually like.
"a straight woman who doesn’t want to lose herself to a man"
The wages of "feminism."
"what it means to date: to want to be wanted, to want to be loved, to do things just because you know it will make your partner happy"
Not actually "date," but inching toward insight. She is a comedian, and playing to an audience, but wrapping a bit of self-knowledge in approved language.
But hey, "boyfriend," "lover," consider the hot/crazy matrix. Now in three dimensions: writer/nonwriter added. Proceed at your own risk.
Robert Cook - agree!
"It gave him and I a project..."
WTF!??! What was she thinking? Has Esquire completely done away with copy editors? Doesn't she have an editor in her head?
planetgeo: "Personally, I found her whole approach charming. Sweet even. And ultimately, wise. Despite having preferences and misgivings, her attitude is playful . . . give way to her other."
Yes, the piece is more subtle than commenters giver her credit for.
I noticed that this article was in Esquire magazine, which I used to read all the time. I see that the article had a the sub-header: "Content Warning: This story contains discussions of eating disorders". Hmmmm?
And, FWIW, I've always liked Patti Smith, and thought that she was/is really cute.
If you're a good looking woman, men will be attracted to clothing that displays that. I suppose its a fun experiement, for woman to let a man choose her clothing, but your chances of looking "quirky/interesting" or "Fashionable" are about zero.
As she states, men will generally dress women to extentuate their good looks and feminine qualities. Its also why few men like short hair on a woman (under 40) or want them wearing pant suits (not for business).
This sort of reminds me of Angie Dickinson's quip: "I dress for other women, I undress for men"
"All my boyfriend wants to do is look at my t*ts", said the vacuous dunderhead, in shocked dismay.
I'm surprised she is able to have a boyfriend, since that's such a warped, archaic expression of the patriarchy. Thank goodness he failed the test.
What ever happened to that fashion guy who used to photograph women in interesting clothing in NYC or Paris and post their pictures? I sort liked that site.
@rideSpaceMountain at 7:33.
A real LOL. That was hilarious.
Sexual repression can be hot, if you realize you're repressing your sexuality and holding it in.
I am 99% certain some people are having a lot of fun with Handmaid's Tale costumes.
See also French Maid.
A huge part of fashion is about sexuality and there is nothing wrong with that.
I'm 100% with Camille Paglia on this. It's one of her funniest rants.
A more interesting article would be "I Let My Children Dress Me for a Year," but people who write and read fashion magazines may not have children.
Banshee: AMC shows were either quite good or very bad. In my book, it was one of the bad ones.
Odd to me that clothes have such significance in the relationship. They have little impact on the actually important dimensions of affection, mood, fitness, and sexual availability.
It sounds as though she spent a year dressing for one of those "sexy" Halloween parties. Boring!
rcocean--That is thesartorialist.com. It is still going strong. Scott Schuman is a great street photographer.
Nothing demeaning about turning yourself into a IRL Barbie doll though right. 50 Shades of Gray for the fashionista set.
I appreciate a milkmaid.
I like the paintings w/the cow, though ;0)
Nothing demeaning about turning yourself into a IRL Barbie doll though right. 50 Shades of Gray for the fashionista set.
Male nature: bad.
Female nature: smart and sophisticated.
Sigh. How long are we going to keep repackaging this?
(To this day, the sexiest woman I've ever seen in a TV commercial was the one who for a time in the '80s was selling Right Guard with the sung slogan about "Mr. Right." My friend and I nicknamed her Thelma just to tone down the heat that she turned up in both of us...wearing a sleeveless black turtleneck.)
If your boyfriend dresses you in style, then your boyfriend is gay.
My main man during my three years in Tokyo was a “fashion guy” who started his professional life in front of the lens and quickly developed an interest in moving to the other side of the lens. Next thing you know, he was photographing women in interesting clothing (or not) in NYC and Paris and beyond. FWIW, “Bugsy” is still married to the still-beautiful woman he was with when we met 40 years ago. You can see his work at…. grahamshearer.com
A boyfriend, or friend with "benefits"?
The "patriarchy who shower with their mature daughters?
The "patriarchy" who fondle underage girls?
The "patriarchy" as in transgender males who have no fondness for the fairer sex? Transgender females who are fond of the fairer sex. You are competitors in the same market.
The "patriarchy" as in feminist, as in masculinist, who are both pro-abortion... Choice, advocates of the wicked solution to keep women affordable, available, and taxable, and the "burden" of evidence (demos-cracy) sequestered in darkness.
Or the patriarchy as in your father and invariably your mother? Granpa and granny, too.
Caveat emptor.
A friend from years ago had a standard reply when girlfriends asked what they should wear to fancy upcoming social events:
"Something tight, with not too many buttons."
Tic: Victorian age
Toc: Roaring twenties
Tic: Great depression
Toc: (WW2!!)
Tic: Repressive 50s
Toc: Sexual revolution
Tic: Alex P. Keaton
Toc: Girls Gone Wild
Tic: Me too feminism
Toc: ...
Truth is a sexy woman will be sexy to you wether she's dressed in a black revealing cocktail dress or like Annie hall.
Fashion is a game women play mostly for other women and gay males.
Which is odd, because other women hate other women, in general terms, and so do gay males.
The reality is, sweeties? Men don't care, not the sort you really want to hang around with. How often have you changed your hair style and/or color, only to have your significant other fail to notice the changes for weeks on end?
Does that not serve as a clue? Sure, we like you to look nice, but that's because we perceive that as making you happy, not because we really give a flying f*ck about the latest thing in from Paris. Hell, most of us not only can't identify "the latest thing", we positively seek to avoid it. If men really gave a damn about fashion, there wouldn't be bars serving as "hot pickup joints", it'd be all the damn boutiques and fashion venues.
This is a self-created feminine delusion. Look healthy, happy, and deliver all the signs of that? You'll kill in the market; men react to that, not the latest fad.
And, if you find a male who does? That ought to serve as a very clear red flag. Something is profoundly wrong in that male's head.
So were new clothes bought as well? This seems like a very expensive undertaking if so.
(from the article): It gave him and I a project
Conclusion: Esquire has fired their copy editors.
effinayright:
Don't wear anything...complicated.
Sex, sex-correlated gender, or social standard?
Female, attributes (e.g. boobs, hips), or, ideally, reconciliation of fitness-orientation?
“What’s wrong with being sexy?”
— Nigel Tufnel
Lover or luster, perhaps a parader? All's fair in lust and abortion, pride and prejudice.
“Guys don't want their wives and girlfriends dressed like hookers. At least not in public. Attractive, yes. Slutish, no. That's for going out. For work, dress appropriately. At home, alone and no kids, yes we want the sexy. Anyway that's my take on it. The writer could have cut the article by 90% and said the same thing I'm saying if the guy wasn't just wanting to parade her around like a trophy”
Most guys don’t really like the constant competition of a wife looking like a slut, advertising her sexual charms in public, except, maybe, as my partner does, when she is obviously committed to the guy she is with. She would wear low cut, tight outfits, if I wanted her to, but I am mostly ambivalent. Her 2nd husband loved it when she was dressed sexy in public - as long as he was there exuding possessiveness. So, his informal rules were that -sexy in public together, and dressing herself down when they weren’t. He was big enough that no one dared challenge him for that prize. She doesn’t do it around me, because that isn’t why we got together. Rather, what she impresses people with is her wit and lightning fast mind. Other guys don’t know that we are together because I stay close to her, but because of our verbal sparring. She could still turn men’s heads if she wanted to. She knows how to do it (she was a Powers Girl model at one point). And still, at 65, has a smoking hot body. But doesn’t, because she doesn’t see her worth in the amount of male attention she gets.
My theory is that women dress for women because they are much more susceptible to peer pressure than men are. And that means not being overly sexy because that would endanger the relations that these women have with their husbands. As noted above, guys are visual, and have a hard time not looking when goods are displayed right in front of them. Women naturally don’t like that, and try to counter it through group power and shunning. And to be realistic, many, if not most, women can only pull off the sexually attractive look for a decade or two (except places like Scottsdale, next door, where the best plastic surgeons practice), then have to defend their place with their husbands thereafter.
This woman is apparently single. That means that she is very likely looking for a mate. And that means using her charms to the best extent possible. Younger single women tend to be segregated from married, and esp older married, women at least partially as a result of this. My partner lost most of her married female friends when she was widowed at 24, and still drop dead gorgeous. Just probably too much competition, even though dating was the last thing on her mind at the time (her priority was her two small kids), and esp not competing for the other woman’s husband. Didn’t matter, as one female friend, after another, dropped a way.
This is one of the things wrong with feminism: it teaches women that appealing to men is oppression. They are all supposed to dress like butch lesbians. Looking pretty is not "the patriarchy". That is nuts. Conversely, it is possible as a man to appeal to women more by your appearance. Dress nice and drive a Tesla for example. Many women do find the rugged look attractive so wearing a suit is not the only option. No men find the rugged look attractive on a woman, especially a beard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHy4gXYM4PM
"Its also why few men like short hair on a woman (under 40)...."
Ha! Shirley McClaine was never hotter than when she was in her "gamine" phase as a young actress, with her hair cut very short, as in her parts in Martin and Lewis' movie ARTISTS AND MODELS and Billy Wilder's THE APARTMENT (with Jack Lemmon).
If that Vermeer chick dropped about 30 pounds—Wow!
You can dress like Hillary or you can dress like Melania. Your choice.
Robert Cook said...
"Its also why few men like short hair on a woman (under 40)...."
Ha! Shirley McClaine was never hotter than when she was .. as a young actress, with her hair cut very short
So, let's dig into this!
'why few men'
Much like Robert's idea of the definition 'liberal politician', he thinks that what HE thinks, is the standard for All Life on Earth.
Robert: he claimed that only 'few men' like short hair on a young woman..
BUT!! I, Robert Cook, can think of ONE WOMAN that I, Robert Cook liked with short hair.
According Robert, this means; that ALL MEN ON EARTH are Assumed to LOVE short hair, 'cause he does
(on ONE WOMAN)
Robert doesn't Even pretend to claim, that Shirley looked better than other (long haired) women, just that HE thought She 'never looked hotter than when SHE' had short hair.
Robert, you do a Wonderful job of showing people; that WHEN a person is mentally stupid in some things, they are mentally stupid in MOST THINGS
“It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.”
One night, when I was in my 30's, getting ready for an evening out in NYC, I asked my girlfriend how I looked. More as a joke, than a real question. But she took it quite seriously. Made me stand still, and looked me up and down. Then she ruffled my hair, and undid the top two buttons of my shirt. Took me by the shoulders and looked me up and down again. Then pursed her lips, nodded her head and turned around, and out the door we went.
Gilbar,
Do you need someone to call in some help for you? You seem to be experiencing some sort of "episode," (whether naturally or artificially generated is difficult to determine). I can't recall the general nature or tenor of your comments here, (your screen name being all that is distinctive), but this outburst of verbiage, accented by ALL CAPS and all bolded statements, expressing such vehement emotion, suggests a crisis. Please, if you have no one near, please call 1-800-HELP-ME!
Intimacy is fragile and needs to be protected!
It's important for men to guard the intimacy they have with a woman. And it's important for women to guard the intimacy they have with a man.
People will say all kinds of shit if you reveal too much.
My advice would be, when you are intimate
ignore the world!
Vive la difference. If you’ve got it, flaunt it. Not every woman has a mind like Dolly Partain’s.
Give that wife a trophy.
Cookie!
ha ha ha
internet just went icy
a disorienting process for a straight woman who doesn’t want to lose herself to a man
That's why the romantics call it "falling" in love
I feel like Sinatra covered a lot of this.
Then she ruffled my hair, and undid the top two buttons of my shirt.
Most girls are looking for boys, not girls, or the "=" alternatives.
I almost didn't click through to read the article after I read, "It gave him and I a project", but I decided to read it anyway. Then I looked at her Instagram. The clothing she's wearing wasn't want I expected after reading the article. The boyfriend is right about the hair part, though.
This article was useless without pics.
Bruce Hayden said...
“Guys don't want their wives and girlfriends dressed like hookers. At least not in public. Attractive, yes. Slutish, no. That's for going out. For work, dress appropriately. At home, alone and no kids, yes we want the sexy. Anyway that's my take on it."
Agree with the whole comment. And to the bolded part, there is a difference between being sexy and sexual.
Bruce Hayden said...
“Guys don't want their wives and girlfriends dressed like hookers. At least not in public. Attractive, yes. Slutish, no. That's for going out. For work, dress appropriately. At home, alone and no kids, yes we want the sexy. Anyway that's my take on it."
Agree with the whole comment. And to the bolded part, there is a difference between being sexy and sexual.
google Blythe Roberson, you'll see why the high fashion didn't work out
A man finds life's pleasure with a woman in various states of dress and undress. Context matters. I believe that a woman has an equal and complementary perception of the man she chooses.
Rocco no pics in the Esquire article either.
And what to say about this posting at the top of the article?
[Content Warning: This story contains discussions of eating disorders.]
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