"... from other Democrats.... 'The Congressional Progressive Caucus hereby withdraws its recent letter to the White House regarding Ukraine,' the caucus’ chair, Rep. Pramila Jayapal (D-Wash.), said in a statement after POLITICO first reported that the retraction was imminent. 'The letter was drafted several months ago, but unfortunately was released by staff without vetting.'... A source familiar with the situation told POLITICO that Jayapal personally approved the letter’s release on Monday.... 'Amateur hour on part of the CPC not to have anticipated that,' said one lawmaker who signed on and, like others, spoke on the condition of anonymity. A Hill staffer put it even more bluntly: 'It’s just a disaster. The CPC just needs to clean house.'... A leader for another group that endorsed the initiative said, on condition of anonymity: 'We signed the text of the letter, not the editorialized roll out that isn’t consistent with the progressive position on Ukraine.'"
ADDED:It's really worth thinking about what happened with the Progressive Caucus. They popped their heads up with the mildest, most deferential and most tentative questioning possible on the war in Ukraine.
— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) October 25, 2022
And for that, they were forced to abase themselves twice, and did so eagerly. pic.twitter.com/kbmfOSGbx2
पोस्ट्स
६२ टिप्पण्या:
As soon as the Republicans become the House majority, they should vote to remove all the Progressive Caucus members from all their committee assignments.
Dems trying to usurp the "Stupid Party" mantle from Republicans.
Not something that can be unseen.
If we negotiated, Putin’s actual demands would have to be reported, which would be politically disastrous for Biden. This way we can rely on the mind-reading of the neocons, so that Americans can stay angry right up to nuclear ☢️ war.
We signed the text of the letter, not the editorialized roll out that isn’t consistent with the progressive position on Ukraine.
What does that statement mean?
So, the text is fine with the Progs. How do you retract a rollout? (That sounds like a vaguely sexual phrase I'd hear on Animal Channel.)
Just what I thought. A meaningless CYA stunt. And they couldn't even do that 100 percent. Remember! The D's put party above country. they march in lockstep, and will never break ranks if the DNC or Powerful D's put pressure on them.
Tommorrow if Biden flip flops and says he will negotiate these 30 "Progressives" will immediately swing back to supporting negotiations. Not empty suits. Robots.
"It wasn't vetted." They signed it, didn't they?
Someone explain to me why pointing and laughing isn't the appropriate response.
Cowards. The CPC did the right right thing with the letter. Peace negotiations should not be off the table.
Then they fell back in line like liberal sheep always do these days.
Afterwards, they put on their masks and all went to the congressional clinic on got their 5th booster shot.
Ukraine will kill the Green Agenda, but stopping Ukraine cash will kill the on-going grift.
Someone played a "gotcha on the squad. That does not mean that they were necessarily wrong. Here's my comment from the earlier post:
"My first question to all those who think negotiations are foolish is: How do you see the Russian incursion into Ukraine ending? My second is: Do you seriously believe that Russia with a population three times that of Ukraine and nuclear weapons can't defeat Ukraine in a protracted contest? I do not see any way that we can end the killing in Ukraine without, at least, attempting to negotiate with Russia. It pains me to agree with the "squad' so I'll agree with Tim that we are headed to a denouement that neither we, our allies, or the Ukrainians are going to like if we don't make a serious attempt to end the fighting. Forget the finger pointing and think about the conduct of the war itself. The Ukrainian people have done well and they have been able to re-establish reasonable boundaries - and may continue to advance which indicates to me that this is a good opportunity to see if we can affect some kind of cease fire and border fix. Putin seems willing to fight to the last Ukrainian regardless of how poorly his troops perform. I don't think we, also, should be ready to fight to the last Ukrainian. Winter is coming and things can only get worse for the civilians."
I certainly do not think that our actions should be tied to whatever Zelensky wants, which seems to be where we are now. Of course, one must always keep in mind Robert Gates comment on Joe Biden ( when Joe was "compos mentis"): "I think he has been wrong on nearly every major foreign policy and national security issue over the past four decades.”
Grandpa of all foreign policy failures "wins."
It must be humiliating to be forced to retract by an idiot with dementia.
Nerves of taffy.
Profiles in vacillation.
A moment of sanity and integrity from the Left gets squashed by the neocon narrative. Pathetic in every respect.
Jellyfish caucus.
"Ok, I am signing this letter, but you better vet it first before releasing it!"
Said no one ever.
This seems strange. I heard on the Commentary podcast that this letter was drafted in July, and sent yesterday as a mistake, or a provocation, or???
I am agnostic regarding the wisdom of the diplomatic approach suggested. Nations have no morality. A promise from a nation is utterly contingent on whether compliance with the promise will help the nation. Russian revanchism isn't going to disappear.
Felt a tug at their purse strings, did they?
What does that statement mean?
It means, we believed that then but it was inconvenient to make it public now.
Is there a "progressive position" -- one and only one possible progressive position -- on Ukraine? Probably not, but they like to talk that way. Political correctness, and all that.
They have the courage of their convictions. And if someone with campaign dollars objects, then they have the courage of other convictions.
Yeah, it's the neocon's fault. Because they have so much influence over AOC.
Weren't lefties saying that this symbolized how Democrats don't always just line up behind their guy like Republican do? I guess they have no comment now.
I believe it was a huge foreign policy mistake to shut Trump out of developing our response to the Ukraine invasion. It was very short-sighted to denounce him, his allies and his patriotic voters as Nazis, arresting and harassing them, while correctly denouncing Russia for calling Ukrainian patriots Nazis. Woodrow Wilson made a similar mistake with respect to peace negotiations after World War I. He shut out the Republicans on party lines for party reasons, hoping to get all the credit for himself and the Democrats for the American policies such as the 14 Points and the League of Nations. He weakened the peace and that's what he gets credit for in history. I hope and pray it's not too late to include the strongest elements of the Republican party in the defense of the Ukraine.
In 2014 Russia was an aggressor, breaking its agreement to accept Crimea as part of the Ukraine. In 2022 Russian was an aggressor seeking to murder an elected head of state and seize the capital of another country in pursuance of its goal of taking over that entire country. Certainly we should talk to the Russians as Trump always said but we shouldn't think they intend to honor any agreement which rewards their latest invasion with another bit of Ukraine. How could this end? the Ukraine gets back its territory. The younger Russians who do not want to fight in an imperialist war make their objection felt - as they are doing now. The consequences play out in Russia which we do not invade. My objection to the neo-cons is not that they support Ukraine but that they overlook the significance of the cultural changes in the youngest adult generation and do not factor these changes into their geopolitical thinking. Thus they understand what Putin is thinking and why he must be stopped but they do not understand what Russian Forces recruits and conscripts are thinking. They don't think about 1 million Russians, mostly young, leaving Russia since the war began. Or about these Russian travelers being welcomed onto the territory of Russia's alleged allies like Kazakhstan. Talks with Russia should include these themes and not be centered on Russian attempts to terrorize and taunt. We should, of course, be defiant but not let them fill our mind with the pictures and words, like "Armageddon," "dirty bomb," "blow up the dam," which they want us to have and act on.
So they changed their mind. I wonder what caused, or at least helped them to 'change their mind'? Has a place been made at the trough?
Graduates of the Liz Truss school of Strongly Held Principles.
Roseanne Rosanna Danna says, "Never mind".
It’s important that the American people not be informed of Putin’s demands, or even his concerns, lest it diminish support for sending more Ukrainians to their deaths.
“I have sentenced younger men than you to the gas chamber. I didn’t want to do it, but I felt I owed it to them.” -Caddyshack
Remember when you laughed at that line? Didn’t think it was you.
It's amazing how McCarthy's statement that Ukraine shouldn't have blank checkbook has been turned into "McCarthy threatens to end aid to Ukraine."
I wonder if "CALL ME LT COL" Vindiman will write nasty emails to them like they did to Musk. Musk was yelled at by Ukraine for saying he thought negotiations should be looked at. And Musk is the one who has paid $80 MM out of his own pocket to provide free tactical communications to the Ukraine government.
This lashout at Musk has almost made me a Putin supporter. Vindiman and the Ukrainian diplomatic spokesmen are pure ingrates, snotty self important jerks who insult the people trying to help them, and are not a fraction as competent.
Minnesota farm guy probably said the same thing about Vietnam in 1967 and Achilles about Afghanistan in 2003.
Insanity is restored.
I agree with Minnesota Farm Guy.
What do the "no negotiations" people see as the end game here?
Somebody probably told the Proggies that their position was the same as Trump's.
No armtwisting required.
Well our host posted a story today about the world's dirtiest man.
Now she's writing about one or more of AOC's Squad members. Any one of, or all of them, are contenders for the title of "world's dumbest person".
This is going to destroy the Democrat party.
Public humiliation is the one thing these status conscious front row losers cannot deal with.
This is just embarrassing and really quite pathetic.
Howard said...
Minnesota farm guy probably said the same thing about Vietnam in 1967 and Achilles about Afghanistan in 2003.
You can tell when someone is embarrassed by the position they are supposed to be holding.
They make things up about what other people think.
I look forward to Howard telling everyone he never supported Biden or the War in Ukraine in 5 years and he never supported ditching thousands of American Citizens in Afghanistan.
You are a joke.
the most dangerous course of action, that depletes our weapons, puts more strain on the supply chains, and leads us to world war 3
Yet they'll all keep voting to send billions of our dollars to Ukraine.
How convenient...
Unserious and performative, yet craven. Forward.
Can't wait for the mid-terminations.
In all this back-and-forth, I haven’t seen anyone mention that just a week or so ago, AOC was heckled by her constituents for not opposing the war in the Ukraine. Now a week or so later, she calls for diplomatic efforts to halt the war. Then a day later she and the others retract the letter.
It’s hard being a weather vane when people are screaming at you from all directions.
"The Congressional Progressive Caucus hereby withdraws its recent letter to the White House regarding Ukraine,' the caucus’ chair, Rep. Pramila Jayapal (D-Wash.), said in a statement after POLITICO first reported that the retraction was imminent. 'The letter was drafted several months ago, but unfortunately was released by staff without vetting.'..."
This sounds like what happened to the Democratic Socialists when they released a position paper that included a blurb on economic security even for people "unwlling to work." The Party tried to retract that statement, at first saying it was a fake copy, but - oops - the metadata showed AOC's chief of staff as the author. Then they said it hadn't been properly vetted. I downloaded a copy of the paper from the NPR website in case it would be taken down.
Insane in the Ukraine, insane in the brain (wawk, wawk)
We may be witnessing two (or more) instances of imperial overstretch now. It may well turn out that neither the Russians nor the US have the power and will to fight each other directly, but other than that this looks like the end of several regimes by Christmas.
Nukes etc are too much the wildcard. All bets off if that happens.
Achilles: "I look forward to Howard telling everyone he never supported Biden or the War in Ukraine in 5 years and he never supported ditching thousands of American Citizens in Afghanistan."
Howard, along with his pal gadfly, spent months and months insisting no Americans were left behind, then they shifted to just a few were left behind.
When the reality hit that the number was over 14,000, both Howard and gadfly shut up faster than a lefty confronted by an islamic supremacist.
hawkeyedjb: "Graduates of the Liz Truss school of Strongly Held Principles."
Heh.
They were for negotiation before they were against it.
"The letter was drafted several months ago, but unfortunately was released by staff without vetting."
This is a blatant lie. The original letter specifically refers to "[Russia's] decision to make additional illegal annexations of Ukrainian territory..." which didn't occur until September 30, less than for weeks ago.
They're backtracking as hard as they can, and it's not working with anyone.
The Squad heard that it was a Caucasian war and didn't want any part of it.
Progressive Maverick: Tower, this is Ghost Rider requesting a flyby.
Air Boss Pelosi: Negative, Ghost Rider, the pattern is full.
Progressive Maverick: Okay. (Breaks off flyby and lands as usual)
why not just redact instead of retract?
tim in vermont said...
Americans can stay angry right up to nuclear ☢️ war.
====
hey tim >> what is the coding trick for emoji and gif
Jayapal represents my district which is hard left; she will have no trouble being re-elected.
@ Howard
In 1967 I was in Viet Nam and was more concerned with carrying out my orders and taking care of my Marines than I was about the big picture. It was quite clear to me after I got home and had time to think about it that we had two choices in Viet Nam: get serious about prosecuting all out war against North Viet Nam or get out. The choice made was to get out. We danced around that decision, arguing the shape of the negotiating table, but the decision was to get out.
We are not "in" Ukraine, but I am very concerned that if we don't try to end the fighting on an honorable basis while Ukraine is doing well militarily we will end up with the equivalent of NVA tanks in Saigon except this time it will be Russian tanks in Kiev, or even worse with US tanks in Kiev.
BTW, Howard, what were you doing in 1967?
"Peace negotiations should not be off the table." Does "unconditional surrender" count as "negotiations"?
"Certainly we should talk to the Russians as Trump always said". Can we talk with the Russians about "unconditional surrender"?
Russia, the remnant of the old Soviet Union, wants to claim the power and reputation of its deceased progenitor. Biden played into that scam by reminding us of the Cuban Missile Crisis. But 'tain't true Magee. What many sophisticated Westerners (I'm not naming names) would have called a piss-ant little country is kicking Ivan's ass. If the ruling elites in Russia want to protect their positions, they need to find a way to get Ukraine (and NATO) to stop kicking. This is not the time for the West to offer "negotiations". It's the Russians that need to "negotiate".
Did I say something about "unconditional surrender"?
In two days noone will even remember or care about this.
"BTW, Howard, what were you doing in 1967?"
Swimming around in his daddy's balls most likely.
William: "The Squad heard that it was a Caucasian war and didn't want any part of it."
Another comment I wish I'd written.
Why do we need peace talks when we have posters like The Godfather to explain Putin’s position for us. It’s only nuclear war at stake, why should we worry about misunderstandings? Because the alliance against Putin would fall apart if his true war aims became widely known, is my guess, but if bullied enough, who knows, I might come to forget the stuff that happened in February and for the eight years prior.
BTW, I can only do the emojis when posting from my phone. There is probably some trick, but I don’t know it.🫤
In two days noone will even remember or care about this.
Let's leave Herman's Hermits out of this, OK?
So this letter was written and signed in July. Not for release, but to have ready to release at an opportune moment for maximal political impact and benefit to the progressive cause.
I am left in amused contemplation of what must be bursting-full file cabinet stuffed with other letters and position papers and petitions, all pre-signed and ready for release, no doubt with all possible positions - contradictory positions - ready for public display as needed.
As Groucho famously said, " “Those are my principles, and if you don't like them…well, I have others.”
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