L.G.B.T.Q. couples, particularly younger ones, are starting families and considering more traditional features — public schools, parks and larger homes — in deciding where they want to live. The draw of “gayborhoods” as a refuge for past generations looking to escape discrimination and harassment is less of an imperative today, reflecting the rising acceptance of gay and lesbian people. And dating apps have, for many, replaced the gay bar as a place that leads to a relationship or a sexual encounter....
“What I see in Houston is we are losing our history,” said Tammi Wallace, the president of the Greater Houston L.G.B.T. Chamber of Commerce, who lives in Montrose, the city’s gay neighborhood. “A lot of individuals and couples are saying, ‘We can move to different parts of the city and know we are going to be accepted.’”...
The men and women who established these neighborhoods “wanted to segregate and be surrounded by gay people,” [said urban planning professor Daniel B. Hess]. “In contrast, when you ask young people today what they want, they would prefer an inclusive coffee shop. They don’t want anyone to feel unwelcome.”
Are some people nostalgic for the time when their group was more oppressed? Or is this really about competition for real estate? As for the "young people today" who will say they want "an inclusive coffee shop" where no one feels "unwelcome," well, of course, that's what they will say. But what do they want?
I can see wanting the "gayborhoods" to remain gayborhoods. There's the diversity of accepting everyone into a neighborhood, but there's also the diversity of neighborhoods being different from other neighborhoods. This issue makes me think of Jimmy Carter's disastrous gaffe about "ethnic purity" back in the 1970s — a time when I was very happy to move into the gayest neighborhood in NYC.
***
Now, there's something weird about this article, which is written by Adam Nagourney. In the beginning, we're told that Jones "left for a small home with a garden and apple and peach trees 75 miles away in Sonoma County after the monthly cost of his one-bedroom apartment soared from $2,400 to $5,200." But much later in the article, we're told that Jones's "landlord asserted that he forfeited his rent control protections by living in Sonoma County, effectively forcing him out by more than doubling his rent."
That makes it sound as though Jones already had the house in the country/suburbs, and the apartment was one of 2 homes, which disqualified him from participating in rent control. The Times ought to be straightforward about whether the landlord had the law right! Either Jones was entitled to rent control or he wasn't. How long did Jones have the house before the landlord figured out that rent control no longer applied? This is a legal dispute that ought to be presented with clarity, and breaking up the information looks like an effort to make the facts fit the story the journalist wants to tell.
Why did the rent "soar"? Was it because of a greedy landlord or market forces or was it because of the forces of rent control and Jones's disqualifying himself by buying the house in Sonoma County?
३८ टिप्पण्या:
Rent is a function of the market.
If landlords cannot cover costs with income then only very wealthy people will be landlords.
And eventually they find a way for rent to suddenly skyrocket after all the smaller landlords get driven out of the market.
It is almost as if democrats have a plan to condense wealth into fewer hands.
Stay in SF. You made the mess, you sleep in it
Instead of gentrification would it be cis-ification?
Rents have soared, especially in California. Thank you, Brandon.
Is it possible that they just aren't gay anymore?
Gays moving to the suburbs. Life goes on.
Almost certainly means he moved out and privately subleased so as to get someone else the rent control price, happens all the time.
It's ridiculous that post #MeToo the same progtards tearing down statues of much better men and who went after Garrison Keillor to destroy him continue to lionize the serial child rapist Harvey Milk.
Huh. Reminds me of "Colored People" by Henry Louis Gates. Integration finally arrived and the black town he'd grown up in and loved fell apart as its residents moved out.
Very sad, really.
And don't be asking those uncomfortable questions about those sweet rent control deals, Ann. No one wants to talk about that esp in NYC.
"I can see wanting the "gayborhoods" to remain gayborhoods"
It's a neighborhood not a museum exhibit. How is this different than any other geezer complaining about change? Being homosexual doesn't render you immune to it.
High density models favored by politicians, businesses, and democratic activists, with "benefits".
It is almost as if democrats have a plan to condense wealth into fewer hands.
Redistributive change.
Rents have soared, especially in California. Thank you, Brandon.
Progressive prices forced by liberal fiscal policies (e.g. subsidized in lieu of affordable, excessive credit/debt emission) and single/central/monopolistic solutions.
The adoption of Green renewable/intermittent/unreliable environmental and ecological hazards only serves to exacerbate the conflict. Neither does immigration reform that builds physically compact and resource starved communities.
Hello, I've fucked up California. And now its terrible. I'm moving to another place to fuck that up too.
I'm so sad.
and wow, a liberal/leftist gaming the system and then playing the victim? Man, who could have seen that?
Why did the rent "soar"?
i donno know.. BUT! i DO KNOW; that i wish I could afford to have an apartment in in Frisco; AND a place out in Sonoma county!
My property taxes here in west union were about $300 for this year..
I bet the property taxes on the apartment (that his landlord owns) and his country place are Higher, per year, than my house COSTS
But, as a fly over person; i'm GLAD that cali people are doing great!!
My parents lived in SF 60yrs ago. They would say that this Jones fellow ruined an existing neighborhood w the character they were used to. I think this piece is more about the nostalgia of the elderly than any social upheaval.
He might have been renting a second apartment out there, or living with a boyfriend to the extent that it disqualified him from rent control.
Are some people nostalgic for the time when their group was more oppressed?
I don't know if people want their group to be discriminated against let alone oppressed, but I can understand how some people may want their group to be different and somewhat outside of the norm. Back when he was still getting the attention he desperately needs, Milo Yiannopoulos commented that gayness should be transgressive. He thought gay culture should be about partying to excess and having extravagant and flamboyant events. His idea of gayness did not include a boring home in the suburbs with 2.4 kids, parent-teacher meetings and little league. He wanted gayness to be about breaking social taboos and bucking norms. I can see how that idea for their group can be attractive to some people.
Are some people nostalgic for the time when their group was more oppressed?
Yes. I believe it's one of the reasons for the trans communities growth. Just being gay doesn't cut it on the "freak o meter" scale anymore, so you need to go trans. It's also why there are pushes of LGBTQ ideology into the school system.
It's hard to let your freak flag fly if nobody cares. It's not outrageous to be gay anymore, so let's do drag strip shows with 4 year olds.
Be careful what you wish for.
"Why did the rent "soar"? Was it because of a greedy landlord or market forces or was it because of the forces of rent control and Jones's disqualifying himself by buying the house in Sonoma County?"
Greedy landlord = market forces. No one ever became a landlord out of a humble desire to be ripped off, lied to and hated. They do it for the money. And as noted above, Jones was running a grift where he sublet the apartment, in violation of his lease, and pocketed the difference. Which means that Jones was greedy landlord himself, as well as a thief.
This is something that happens to every neighborhood. People move in, people move out, people die, people are born, the demographics of the neighborhood change with time.
How many Italians are still in Little Italy? And same for many, many other neighborhoods, most of which have gone through multiple changes in the dominant demographic over the years.
It's perfectly normal to feel nostalgic for the way the neighborhood was when you were younger. That's human nature.
But the change in the nature of the neighborhood is also normal. Nothing lasts forever.
Any mention of Harvey Milk being a pedophile?
Thought not...
Before the Castro was a gayborhood it was just a regular neighborhood. Such is the nature of cities. They change.
Brian. Yeah. Tolerance is not sufficient. Celebration is demanded.
The good thing about gays is how clean they are (what with ... um ... well ... you know.) They can come into a hood because it's so hip and has great soul food and within 5 years Gentrify the crap out of that place. Nobody can afford to live there anymore.
Then they move to a new place. (Did ya'll watch The Matrix ... they're like a virus, Mr. Anderson.)
Follow the gays. They're the thing that's happened to real estate since land was invented.
Instead of gentrification would it be cis-ification?
Well, so-called cis-gender refers to gender aligned with sex, so cis-ification must be a social alignment: yesterday's liberal, is today's conservative. The moderation! The fidelity! "our [unPlanned] Posterity"! Deplorable.
As for the "young people today" who will say they want "an inclusive coffee shop" where no one feels "unwelcome..."
I'll bet a dollar that I, and people who think like I do, will always be unwelcome.
I went to Haight Ashbury 20 years too late, a tourist trap of head shops. Let it die rather than be embalmed.
"I'll bet a dollar that I, and people who think like I do, will always be unwelcome."
You (and I, BTW) don't count. But you already knew that.
cubanbob said...
Gays moving to the suburbs.
--
Gayburbs
"The Times ought to be straightforward about whether the landlord had the law right! Either Jones was entitled to rent control or he wasn't."
They *can't*. They're journalists, not judges. If the Times misstates the law, they could be libeling at least one party.
Any mention of Harvey Milk being a pedophile?
Only in the comments.
Wikipedia says he was a visionary civil rights leader. His message?
"We have to make up for hundreds of years of persecution." - Harvey Milk
Aren't the goals the same today? After all, there are so many victims of persecution. If you don't agree with Harvey, are you a persecutor like that Twinkie guy? Which side are you on? Why are far-right fascists so preoccupied with this man's sex life?
Was Harvey's offer of love child abuse or a gift to these young men? I suspect your response will reflect your reaction. Why not drill down to the heart of the matter? Why not, unless you want to keep the line between abuser and abused as hazy as possible.
After all, these men were cruelly murdered! By a cis white man! With a gun! Who is the real victim here? What did the rule of law do for Harvey Milk and George Moscone, in the end?
And the beat goes on... Beatify your victims and grow your church. Fight hate, end racism. Perfection is right around the corner. Just listen to me. Who do you trust?
Sometimes you just have to say it. Here's their game. Once seen, it cannot be unseen.
"They *can't*. They're journalists, not judges. If the Times misstates the law, they could be libeling at least one party."
Fine. But the way they handle that is to quote some law professor. The most normal thing to do would be to interview the landlord and get his/her side of the story. There are ways to finesse the libel issues, and obviously the Times knows how to do that. The way that was used risks libeling the landlord, so this is obviously not a fear of libel problem.
Are some people nostalgic for the time when their group was more oppressed?
At least when you were being oppressed by The Man, you knew who your enemies were.
I went to Haight Ashbury 20 years too late, a tourist trap of head shops.
I'd wager that if you experienced the "real" HA today you'd be less than impressed. Same for all the good old day locations.
Here's what that virago owner, Lily Kue, said: “I want Cleve to continue the tenancy and let the judge determine the petition (that the apt is not his principal residence),” Kue said in an email to the Chronicle. “I will be gracious and accepting of law.” What a total bitch.
When I moved to NYC 22 years ago, I wanted nothing to do with the “gay” neighborhoods of the time... Chelsea, Hell’s Kitchen and such. I’m gay, but I didn’t particularly care and still don’t. I’m more concerned with a safe and affordable area, not a social life on the sidewalk outside my building.
One of the comments gives a good explanation of rent increase:
We all admire the young gay activist Cleve Jones and respect his fierce, flamboyant and powerful presence in the movement.
But in fact, Jones has not "lived in the Castro neighborhood for nearly 50 years."
Jones moved out of his rent-controlled apartment in the Castro during the covid lockdown, decamping to rural Sonoma County.
Jones' landlord, Lily Pao Kue, notified him of the rent increase after purchasing the property, invoking a California law that allows landlords of rent-controlled units to raise rents to market rate if a tenant has moved out.
Jones' departure meant he no longer was legally entitled to remain in the low rent-control rent that had had enjoyed for decades. This is not a tale of LGBTQ+ discrimination, but law and economics.
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