१९ मार्च, २०२२

"The Limestone mine operates day and night, growing louder at night and on weekends when bitcoin’s electricity-hungry computers can take advantage of down time and lower prices on the electricity grid and ramp up their algorithmic-solving power...."

"Appalachia, with its cheap electricity from coal, natural gas and hydro, was already attractive to bitcoin miners when China, which dominated world production, cracked down on such operations last summer, worried about the volatility of digital currencies.... [R]esidents in areas that initially welcomed crypto mining are now experiencing buyer’s remorse.... Craig Ponder, pastor at the New Salem Baptist Church... compared the noise to the jet engines he heard while serving in the military. He said that the noise can make it difficult for congregants to chat with each other in the parking lot after services.... 'In a rural environment, you have a very low ambient noise level anyway, so you walk outside and a creek is gurgling, birds are chirping, but there is not a lot of man-made noise. Once you take some of these bitcoin mining facilities, the noise carries, there is nothing to hide it or mask it,' [said a sound mitigation expert].... 'This is an industry that is on fire now, and a lot of people may not have known the noise the machines make; there are a lot of inexperienced people coming into the industry, and they are causing issues,' said [John Warren, the chief executive of GEM Mining, which owns 32,000 bitcoin miners]."

From "An Appalachian town was told a bitcoin mine would bring an economic boom. It got noise pollution and an eyesore. Supporters of the crypto plant promised an expanded tax base and job creation. What residents say they got was the constant din from massive computers and equally massive cooling fans" (WaPo).

This article is mainly about how noisy the "mine" is. There's a bit about how bad it looks — "like a German POW camp," according to a commissioner who regrets voting for it. I don't know why an article that's so negative about a business doesn't mention climate change. I mean, I can easily find other articles on this subject, but isn't global warming routinely shoehorned into news articles? It's strange to see it bypassed here. Did I miss a reference? 

Anyway, the noise problem is very sad, and the climate change issue is well represented in the comments section over there. Example: "And the environmental costs are astounding. I can't believe we're getting into this kind of thing when we're trying to cut back our environmental footprint. Crypto is a climate change villain, without offering anything back."

३३ टिप्पण्या:

Howard म्हणाले...

Math isn't only hard, it's energy intensive.

David Begley म्हणाले...

Most utilities are moving to net carbon zero. That means no coal and lots more wind and solar. But wind and solar produce little to no power at night. People charge their EVs at night. The OPPD CEO said he was unhappy about that. When did he expect people to charge up?

Rural communities are figuring out this bargain with the devil. I feel real good about stopping a 3,200-acre solar development in Cass County, Nebraska. DDB versus OPPD. David wins.

Ron Winkleheimer म्हणाले...

First off all, how is a bitcoin mine supposed to generate jobs? Its not a labor intensive enterprise. Second of all, I've worked in data centers. While actually in the area where the computers and ac that keeps them cool are located the noise is really loud. But, once you step out of that area you don't hear anything. Sounds like this "mine" was built on the cheap with inadequate sound abatement.

wild chicken म्हणाले...

Missoula already gained and lost its mining operation, which was set up in an old US Plywood mill.

And talk about gaslighting - "I don't hear nuthin, do you?" Lol.

The county was just about to take Serious Action when the mining op imploded on its own. I hope that's the end of it.

Craig Howard म्हणाले...

I can't get too worked up about the supposed environmental problems ;ACG believers routinely excuse the destruction caused by windmills and solar farms. But how could a town believe an installation such as this would create economic growth?

It produces nothing tangible, would create virtually no local jobs, and could be loaded on trucks and moved in a day. Yes, it would expand the tax base -- no small matter in dying towns -- but perhaps not enough to compensate for the noise and ugliness.

I just cannot shake the idea that cryptocurrency (like computer voting) will turn out to have been a silly and perhaps disastrous experiment. The day of the EMP (or the day the Fed figures out how to break the blockchain) it will all disappear.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

Why does Crypto currency remind me of Colbert, Maddow, Biden and Pelosi?
Chi com money whores... ultimate greed. and liars...

Lem Vibe Bandit म्हणाले...

You mean crypto currency is like old gold based currency?

Temujin म्हणाले...

The energy usage, or as some want to refer to it, the 'climate change problem' is well documented and discussed in crypto circles. Hence, the ongoing work by Ethereum to move from Proof of Work to Proof of Stake, changing in the process, how much energy is used in validating transactions on the blockchains.

The entire crypto industry is aware of, and working to change on the fly. This is a huge industry in it's infancy. Still evolving, still growing.

But...I have a relative who lives in the middle of Washington state. In a mid-sized town known for being the center of the northwest fruit industry. It sits at the convergence of two large rivers and has hydro plants producing a lot of cheap energy for the area extending out around the middle of the state. Crypto miners moved into the area a few years ago for the cheap energy. And now, energy there is getting way more usage than planned, and prices are going up. So yes, this does have an impact.

But the market works. More and more consumers are looking for crypto that works, that produces something, but also that uses less energy, working with Proof of Stake instead of Proof of Work. Here's a primer: Proof of Work vs. Proof of Stake.

PS- crypto is real, it can work, and it is here to stay. Remember, your dollar, or any fiat currency is only good as long as it has the faith of the people using it. Value is derived from the marketplace, not a government.

Tom T. म्हणाले...

Yup, if there's one thing Appalachian people hate and just can't deal with, it's mining.

Howard म्हणाले...

Blogger April Apple said...
Why does Crypto currency remind me of Colbert, Maddow, Biden and Pelosi?
Chi com money whores... ultimate greed. and liars...


Mental illness via social media facilitated by troll farms.

Achilles म्हणाले...

At some point in the next few months the Cardano block chain is going to start being in the news for this very reason. It is a proof of stake block chain. You "mine" ada, the main currency, by participating in the decentralized network.

The transactions are built into "blocks" and processed by other nodes on the blockchain. The UxTO model is written in Plutus which is basically Haskell. This is important because it is a functional programming language. There are similar foundations behind the banking system code of fortan and cobal.

The other thing is that the Cardano block chain is completely anonymous. All of my wallets are only identifiable by the seed phrase used to generate them. The entire system is a cryptographic key generator.

The only way to seize my money is to get that seed phrase. No address, No names. No picture of me or my kids. 100% secure.

Achilles म्हणाले...

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Why does Crypto currency remind me of Colbert, Maddow, Biden and Pelosi?
Chi com money whores... ultimate greed. and liars...


Because you don't understand how it is or how it works and things you don't understand are scary.

Blockchain is the end of the Fed Reserve.

It is the end of the centrally controlled banking system.

It is the end of the State corruption dominating finance.

Achilles म्हणाले...

Lem said...

You mean crypto currency is like old gold based currency?

You can mine more gold.

Crypto Currency totals are limited by math and white papers which makes it much more finite.

boatbuilder म्हणाले...

There is Crypto, and there is Bitcoin. Not all crypto is safe from devaluation and manipulation by a centrally controlled authority, which is the key to Bitcoin's value as a stable currency and store of value (My limited understanding, based on Saifodeen Ammous' book). Many crypto operations appear to me to be Ponzi schemes, as the operators/designers have huge incentives to profit by altering the programs.

One thing that occurred to me is that a country like Iceland, which has essentially unlimited geothermal energy to tap, could set up a bitcoin mining operation powered by that energy, and fund its operations that way.

But my understanding of Bitcoin, mathematics, computers and energy is very limited. Maybe I should just set myself up as a journalist.

Andrew म्हणाले...

I echo Ron above. I've been to a large-scale computer/data facility before. It took up the whole basement floor of a huge university building. What stood out to me was the cool temperature, and the relative quietness. The larger units were in a sound-proofed room. There was a background hum, and some random noises, but the people were louder than the computers. We're not talking about a steel mill here.

And has anyone in this town actually visited the bitcoin facility? What is it that's actually going on there? Why should bitcoin mining be loud? Does a computer work extra hard to mine a bitcoin that's buried deeper in ... wherever the hell they are located?

rhhardin म्हणाले...

Mine bitcoin in the winter in individual houses - it replaces the furnace.

Chris N म्हणाले...

At Peace Pavilion West, the only sound ‘s the joyous grunt of the stooped worker. Maybe a little laughter from inside the compound, as Dale frolics and seeds the next generation.

Poor Sara went ‘carbon-neutral’ last month, and she seemed healthy.

Xmas म्हणाले...

Andrew, a crypto machine is usually a board to hold multiple high end video cards. The machines are built to fully use the GPUs to run the proof of work algorithms. So a crypto rack is probably 100 100 watt video cards running full out 24 hours a day. With the whole farm having dozens of racks. All those kilowatts of processing power end up as heat which has to be removed in the cheapest way possible, big fans.

All this just so they can solve the proof of work first and get paid for the blockchain processsing.

John henry म्हणाले...

Can't read the article so could someone explain the noise source to me?

Computers make no noise. Is it the cooling fans & ac? I've worked with huge industrial ac systems since the 60s. Never felt any need to wear hearing protection no matter how close I was.

They just aren't that noisy in my direct, hands-on experience.

So where does the noise come from?

And don't get me started on bitcoin et al. As someone said here it, like all money, only gas value because people think it has value. Just like govt fiat money. But unlike govt fiat money, or a commodity based money like gold, it is based on destruction or waste (of energy) rather than production.

John LGBTQBNY Henry

Rollo म्हणाले...

If you had your computer on all day and night for twenty years trying to detect alien life for SETI@home, haven't you earned a few bitcoins by now?

Ron Winkleheimer म्हणाले...

Computers make no noise. Is it the cooling fans & ac? I've worked with huge industrial ac systems since the 60s. Never felt any need to wear hearing protection no matter how close I was.

Yep, its the ac/cooling fans. Home computers are designed to minimize that noise as much as possible because nobody wants a to work on a loud, annoying computer. However, stuff meant to run in a data center may not be designed to be so quite because its cheaper and loudness is not a problem when nobody is around to hear it. This can be an issue when putting together home labs using used equipment. You can get stuff off of Ebay that is very reasonably priced, but it can be so loud you would not want it in your home.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiimjEjXUto

skip ahead to 6:42

you can hear the background noise in various portions of this video, but try starting at 5:42

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUmLnSEVVDw

And this is a crazy big home lab
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75UiPCNpMyA

Narr म्हणाले...

I invested in Bitcoins but still haven't got them. Something about the miners going too deep, but they assure me they'll be in the mail soon.

I can never hear about bitcoin mining without thinking about Laurel and Hardy(?) and beefsteak mines.

Andrew म्हणाले...

@Xmas,
Thanks for the info. That's genuinely interesting.

n.n म्हणाले...

Crypto with a secure key is the perfect tracking device. And a currency backed by the full faith and credit of the owner.

gilbar म्हणाले...

so, i just got back from catching trouts in wyoming
(two 5 lb trouts, two 4 lb trouts*, i don't have any idea how many trouts in total),
so i'm a little slow..

It's Bad, and WRONG, to waste energy; right?
Except when you're doing For the Chinese. right?

2 4lb trouts* these two were on consecutive runs through the russian olive hole; so both were in front of about 6 professional guides**

professional guides** YES, i was with my professional guide*** .. who was Very happy to have me land them both in front of his co-workers

my professional guide*** HE is the one that weighed them

JaimeRoberto म्हणाले...

Notably absent from the article was a measure of decibels.

Joe Smith म्हणाले...

I think the whole climate change concern is disingenuous.

Do these same people complain about the massive server farms that are needed when they search Google, or watch Netflix, or order from Amazon?

No.

Sounds like nimby thinking, except they invited it.

I suppose it could have been weed farms instead, and then they'd complain about the smell...

Rusty म्हणाले...

" Value is derived from the marketplace, not a government."
Truer words.
"so, i just got back from catching trouts in wyoming"
Bastard.

Original Mike म्हणाले...

"Mine bitcoin in the winter in individual houses - it replaces the furnace."

That doesn't work. Freder explained to us many years ago that waste heat does not warm the house.

I say "explained", but nobody understood it. But Freder was adamant, with his usual anger and insults, so he must have been right.

boatbuilder म्हणाले...

You're going to need a new avatar, Gilbar.

farmgirl म्हणाले...

My youngest daughter, when about 12, caught an almost 4# Brown Trout in the pasture. Well, in the River bordering the pasture. Pretty cool thing. She walked over the hill lol.

Wyoming sounds like more fun.

farmgirl म्हणाले...

“@Xmas,
Thanks for the info. That's genuinely interesting.”

It’s a Greek tragedy.
Written in Greek!
I’m sure it’s interesting…
I’d rather risk any injury working w/1500#+beasts than hurt my brain trying to decipher tragedy…

Christopher B म्हणाले...

It's been a while since I've been in our datacenter but it seems to me that a lot of the cooling was provided by pre-chilled and filtered air, and some CPUs that were actually water-cooled. They were also designed to minimize overall power usage including for cooling.

I'm guessing the 'miners' are probably setting up an operation with as little initial investment as possible, so cheap cards and racks with little to no heat sinking, and nothing more than giant fans to blow air around and hopefully keep them from burning up. I can see it being loud.