Writes Sanjay Gupta in "Dr. Sanjay Gupta: Why Joe Rogan and I sat down and talked -- for more than 3 hours" (CNN).
To many, he represents a queen bee in a hive mind, advancing free will and personal liberty above all else. The free will of your fist ends where my nose begins. When I said this to Joe, the MMA fighter, he paused, sat back and listened for a while. I asked him: Is it not possible to advocate strongly for personal freedoms, but also recognize the unique threat a highly contagious disease represents?...Why should those who have previously had Covid still get the vaccine?.... And when Joe pushed hard on the risk of myocarditis in kids who receive the vaccine, especially young boys, I countered back equally hard that the risk of myocarditis has been shown to be much higher for infected children under 16 years old compared to their uninfected peers.... For me, the risk-benefit analysis is clear: Vaccination is safer than infection....
I guess a small part of me thought I might change Joe Rogan's mind about vaccines. After this last exchange, I realized it was probably futile. His mind was made up, and there would always be plenty of misinformation out there neatly packaged to support his convictions.
Truth is though, I am still glad I did it. My three-hour-long conversation wasn't just with Rogan. If just a few of his listeners were convinced, it will have been well worth it.
I've listened to much of the 3-hour conversation, and I think Rogan did a great job of grilling Gupta. Gupta's write-up here strikes me as disrespectful to Rogan — "guardian of the galaxy," "queen bee," "His mind was made up."
Gupta must feel that desperate to shore up his reputation. He's the mainstream newsman, and Rogan is the outsider. But Rogan has 11 million listeners per episode, and I don't think there's any show on CNN that has an audience of even 1 million.
पोस्ट्स
५५ टिप्पण्या:
thought I might change Joe Rogan's mind about vaccines. After this last exchange, I realized it was probably futile. His mind was made up, and there would always be plenty of misinformation out there neatly packaged to support his convictions.
YES! it's Important to remember,
That things from CNN (like Joe took horse dewormer), are Information
And anything Else, is MISINFORMATION, neatly packaged.
Always believe CNN not your lying eyes!
Gupta laments that he couldn’t change Joe Rogan’s mind, but at no point does he demonstrate even a hint of having an open mind himself. Physician heal thyself.
If unvaccinated people are infecting others at a higher rate than vaccinated people are doing so, we could argue that the unvaccinated are, on average, more likely to harm others; and depending on the magnitude of the likelihood and of the harm, we could argue that they should be treated differently (quarantine, testing, masking, even forced vaccination).
But do we have this information? If we do, why is it not being publicized? It is a critical element in fashioning a policy that is rational and —emphasis added here— SEEN to be rational.
It’s my impression that we don’t have this information. We know that unvaccinated people are more likely to get infected: but that is a harm to themselves, not others. We also know that vaccinated people can get infected: by other vaccinated people (look at the data from the Provincetown MA “super spreader” event of last July). So the danger of infecting others is not confined to the unvaccinated. In order to justify discriminating against them —punishing them or forcing them to get vaccinated— we need to get some science that shows them to be significantly more infectious than vaccinated people are. Otherwise, leave them be.
Maybe Gupta could apply his talents to that question? He might find it more rewarding than being body-slammed by Rogan. For hours.
Rogan calmly disassembled the good doctor on his podcast. I think the he was expecting a mouth-breathing rube and got ambushed by an articulate skeptic.
You bring up an interesting point about insider vs. outsider. I agree with you about the labels, and yet there it is in the numbers—the outsider has 11 million followers while the insider has less than 1/10th that. How have we arrived at a place in our democracy where that can be true?
All those descriptions Gupta gave of Rogan could have been applied to himself as well.
Early on in the days of their blog, the Powerline guys said something similar about audience sizes when the Minneapolis StarTribune wouldn't publish one of their op-eds (which is how they used to reach an audience before the blogosphere).
If I recall correctly, it was something like "forget those guys. X times more people read our blog than the StarTribune."
Does Gupta ever acknowledge that the US medical establishment has seriously blundered by not looking at cures for people who caught the disease, which apparently can still happen even after one has been vaccinated. The obsession with 100% vaccination, even for people who have survived the disease and thus have natural immunity, is absolutely pathological. Where does it come from? Are key figures in the Biden administration getting kickbacks from Big Pharma? We know that Joe iden is and has always been corrupt. Who else?
Rogan got the disease, so he said he's got antibodies that are far more effective than you can get from the vaccine, so he challenged Gupta to explain why he should get the vaccine now, given that there are possible side effects? Rogan sounded completely lucid and informed, and what was Gupta's answer? He said a lot of words, but I got the impression he mainly believed that there must be a united front of experts telling everyone they must get the vaccine.
He said a lot of words, but I got the impression he mainly believed that there must be a united front of experts telling everyone they must get the vaccine.
Yes, but why? Don’t you lawyers ask “cui bono”?
(You wouldn’t believe how hard I had to wrestle spell check to put the legal phrase in the text.)
Gupta is a CNN weenie. He has Progressive talking points that he as to adhere to. Can't step off the plantation...or they will cancel him.
Those who get the virus get the full package of immune response. The vaccine only turns on the antibody side of the system and that, by design, quiets down after a few months. Otherwise our blood would be choked with antibodies to every antigen we’ve ever met. The other side of the immune system, the cellular side, has the B and T cells which retain the memory of the virus and can crank up the system in a hurry if it reappears.
So Rogan is probably better off than if he had only had the jab. The jab may not hurt him but it won’t help him much if at all. So his risk/reward calculus is very different than that of somebody lacking any protection.
The vaccine has become a fetish in the original sense of the word. I’m surprised Gupta didn’t wear his witch-doctor mask and brandish his magic rattle.
a queen bee in a hive mind
Apparently Dr. Gupta was an ESL student, so go easy on him.
Gupta descends into the victory mincing lefties are known to favor after someone has bested them.
Someone in Joe Rogan’s audience ought to dig into Gupta’s life a little and find out why he withdrew his name from consideration when Obama wanted to appoint him Surgeon General. These are the new rules, and this snarky misrepresentation of his convo with Rogan needs a new rules retort.
Shoeless Joe said...
Gupta laments that he couldn’t change Joe Rogan’s mind, but at no point does he demonstrate even a hint of having an open mind himself. Physician heal thyself.
In order to be a democrat your self awareness must be zero. Sanjay Gupta is just not very smart. Where does that put the average idiot supporting Joe and watching CNN?
It is a brutal lineup for democrats on Althouse blog today.
Next we can have some articles from the 1980's predicting that global warming is going to cook the planet and kill everyone in 12 years.
"He said a lot of words, but I got the impression he mainly believed that there must be a united front of experts telling everyone they must get the vaccine."
Yes. The dissembling by the regime's apparatchiks and lickspittles seems to be driven by this point: we must be united so the lumpen proletariat will get the vaccines. There can be no alternative. There can be no effective treatment. If you fail to get the vaccines you may die, and you will kill others.
This is astonishing messaging from "public health authorities" about a disease with a 99%+ overall survival rate for the entire population and a vanishingly low death rate for those under age 50.
This is the most over-hyped disease in history, particularly among the hypereducated (heh).
Gupta said...
"For me, the risk-benefit analysis is clear: Vaccination is safer than infection...."
Isn't that Rogan's whole point? Each of us should decide for our own self?
I’ll politely answer the credulous question, “Do vaccinated people pose a lower risk of transmitting COVID than unvaccinated people?”
The answer is of course, “Yes.”
Do your own Google search; MedLine search; whatever floats your boat. You will absolutely find dozens of journal reports and academic studies. Here, just by way of example, is the CDC:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html?s_cid=11511:can%20vaccinated%20people%20spread%20delta:sem.ga:p:RG:GM:gen:PTN:FY21
You can look at the most recent reports; dealing specifically with the Delta variant and recently-vaccinated patient cohorts (earlier this month):
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1280583
But whatever you do, don’t rely on Tucker Carlson:
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/09/covid-19-the-unvaccinated-pose-a-risk-to-the-vaccinated/
I just want to remind everybody that I introduced this blog to Joe Rogan podcast and Jordan Peterson.
The good doctor, removed from his perpetual positive feedback machine, sputtered an answer like a Sopwith Camel on a cold morning.
Rogan sounded completely lucid and informed, and what was Gupta's answer? He said a lot of words, but I got the impression he mainly believed that there must be a united front of experts telling everyone they must get the vaccine.
The Democrats response to the Wuhan Flu has been symbolic and highly political rather than practical. Why denigrate possible cures for the illness if they are prescribed by a qualified MD? That reflects a political agenda not a medical or "scientific" one.
One gets the sense that they do not want COVID sufferers to recover because that might end the "crisis".
but I got the impression he mainly believed that there must be a united front of experts telling everyone they must get the vaccine.
It's the standard fare of doctors in any big city hospital- ignorance of cost/benefit, absence of robust data, contempt for anyone asking challenging questions.
You must obey the protocol...
Will we be forced to get another vaccine later this year/early next year when the epsilon and gamma variants show up? Will we be forced to wear masks again all Spring?
"Gupta must feel that desperate to shore up his reputation. "
But, but but... Chuck said in the other thread,
It was purely a self-aggrandizing thing for Rogan, and absolutely no skin off the nose of Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
If it was no skin off the nose of Gupta, then why would he need to go on Don Lemon, and write an article defending himself?
Chuck must have been wrong. Again.
Joe Rogan handled Gupta the way he was trained to. Gupta came to the studio and sat down not even realizing he was climbing into the ring. It was a stunning display of hubris, and Gupta's inability to answer Rogan's simple, direct questions about the handling of the disease speaks volumes about what we are being spoon-fed by institutions like CNN.
The idea that Rogan has a 'hive mind' is an absurdity. He's been paid a couple of hundred million dollars for being precisely the opposite. Gupta's comments are a warning to others in his hive to stay away from the danger.
“Rogan got the disease, so he said he's got antibodies that are far more effective than you can get from the vaccine, so he challenged Gupta to explain why he should get the vaccine now, given that there are possible side effects? Rogan sounded completely lucid and informed, and what was Gupta's answer? He said a lot of words, but I got the impression he mainly believed that there must be a united front of experts telling everyone they must get the vaccine.”
I think that Roman is100% correct. The three existing “vaccines” aren’t what we’re considered “vaccines” just two years ago. Then the definitions (Wikipedia followed by FDA) were changed, the latter just a couple months ago, to cover these experimental gene therapies. Up until this redefinition, most vaccines were made from either deactivated or weakened strains of the target virus. When an animal is inoculated with such, they may get a very mild case of the disease, but their immune system now recognizes many of the proteins belonging to the virus, and is on guard for it. This is, not surprisingly, very similar to the effect on the immune system from getting and surviving that viral disease. And in most cases, is “sanitizing”, quickly knocking it out, whenever their immune system detects it.
These new “vaccines” are far from sanitizing. Part of this is because they are experimental (mRNA) gene therapies that essentially only sensitize our immune systems to one or two of the proteins (some of the spike proteins that uniquely attach to human ACE2 receptors - one of the reasons we know that the virus was very likely human engineered). Regular vaccines identify dozens of unique viral proteins. This means that if the immune system doesn’t see the spike proteins, it doesn’t recognize the virus. Moreover, they bypassed the normal mechanism for remembering the bad proteins (identifying the virus), and so the immune system memory is imperfect, and weakens fairly rapidly, and it would normally be pushed into longer term immune system memory. Making things worse, originally, it was thought that the gene segments would stay at the injection site. Nope. They appear to migrate to inconvenient places, such as the heart, along with the reproductive cells.
It is almost inconceivable that vaccinating those with sanitizing natural immunities (like Rogan) with these non-sanitizing novel gene therapy vaccines would noticeably increase their resistance to the virus. In order to survive the virus, they had to have developed an immune memory of dozens or more pieces of the virus. Adding memory of a couple more of the most noticeable pieces (which no doubt are already being remembered) isn’t likely to help one bit. So, there is essentially zero benefit from the vaccine. Think of it as Vern diagrams representing the viral proteins recognized. Natural immunity is a big circle, and these novel vaccines are small circles within the larger one. In set theory, the proteins recognized by the merely vaccinated are an almost perfect subset of the ones recognized by those with natural immunity. And, on the flip side, there really do appear to be side effects, which the FDA is desperately trying to ignore, by only counting them starting two weeks after the second jab, when they appear to mostly strike w/I 72 hours or so. Zero benefit, and possible side effects- why should those with natural immunity be forced to get vaccinated?
Evidently the antibodies from infection drop off more quickly than from vax and some infected never get antibodies. Like one third.
Also the antibodies from vax are more generic and protect against a wider range of variants than prior infection.
I saw it on Reddit! Damned if I can get a link.
Why isn’t CNN (or the CDC) out there advancing science at this stage — the right stage to do it — by doing the ordinary public health job of repeatedly informing people to report vaccine side effects, quantifying all, not some, breakthrough infections, and using this data to improve the vaccines we have, alter dosages, and refine potential boosters? This used to be a regular part off the process, and the process is being quashed, mostly by not funding such work, which is the job of several government agencies. I imagine they’d claim they were afraid of anti-vaccers using the data wrong. Who cares? Do the job we pay you to do.
I blame the AIDS movement for politicizing public health to the point where innocent people, mostly minority women, are still harmed every day because, for example, the AIDS lobby got the disease excluded from health departments STD tracking that is supposed to inform sex partners. We still do it for syphilis and gonorrhea, but it is illegal to do it for AIDS. Now we don’t even need the loud radicals of ACT-UP (who did some good but much more harm): we have Sanjay Gupta calmly lying his ass off on tv.
The CDC, NIH, and especially the NIAID need new leadership — and investigations into waste and fraud. People like Gupta are supposed to also give a damn about that. He know what goes on in the NIH.
the risk of myocarditis has been shown to be much higher for infected children under 16 years old
I get what he's saying, but only some subset of boys that age are going to be infected, whereas vaccination would reach all of them. I'm not sure the trade-off is as easy as he suggests.
"Gupta must feel that desperate to shore up his reputation"
Indeed. And the fact that he tries to shore up his reputation this way tells us who is in charge and what their dominant ideology is. Beyond specific skepticism about aspects of the vaccines, the Rogans resist that unearned elite dominance.
"he mainly believed that there must be a united front of experts telling everyone they must get the vaccine"
Exactly. But note the complete absence of any self-reflection on the basic assumption that there must be a united front, that experts are right to enforce a united front, and that any yahoo opposition must be squashed. Gupta illustrates the arrogance of the anointed.
Althouse you almost said the quiet part out loud. It’s not about the science, it’s about the consensus. Science by polls of pols. Guys like Gupta have destroyed Americans’ respect for virology for the sake of collectivism in public policy. And policy that ignores science. Shameful. All of those like him should be considered unreliable and untrustworthy for abusing their positions. There is little difference between him and our lying political class.
Wow. The whole article did not mention the point that is actually the reason for the article. That is, the short clip where Rogan grilled Gupta about "horse dewormer".
I don't actually care that much about Rogan's views on vaccines, nor really about Gupta's views about vaccines. I care a lot that the most important media sources are trying to propagandize us and are willing to intentionally mislead us to do it. Gupta got caught in the middle, basically admitted to Rogan that that had happened to him, then went on CNN and basically admitted that mumble mumble mumble.
Now he published an article that pretended that none of that part happened. Which will probably work fine, because anyone who reads it didn't hear about it anyhow.
When a fairly normal media guy like Joe Rogan can see, analyze and successfully publicize the failures of an entire administration, that administration should stop and take a good long hard look at itself with the goal of correcting its ways. Won't happen, but it should.
And the next person to make a fool of this administration will be.....?
Rogan got the disease, so he said he's got antibodies that are far more effective than you can get from the vaccine, so he challenged Gupta to explain why he should get the vaccine now, given that there are possible side effects?
It scary that this is being equated as being "anti-vaxx." Can someone point to another vaccine that doctors recommend to patients even after they have caught and recovered from a disease? Are there other examples? What other vaccines require booster shots after four months? Are there any examples? My sense is that much of the things our experts are asking us to do is unprecedented. If you are asking me to do something no doctor has ever recommended before, I think the burden is on you to make your case. I am unabashedly pro-vaccine but that should not be an excuse to bury our heads in the sand and not ask the basic WTF questions?
How can you look at our experience with vaccinations and not conclude that these vaccines are uniquely shitty in comparison. Who is leading the charge to develop better vaccines when the only authorized talking point is that these vaccines are great (but you should still mask up and social distance because . . . well . . . reasons)? Why--WHY!--are we pushing out booster shots of the same failing vaccines instead of fast tracking delta-variant (read: the delta "strain) vaccines?
Rogan can strike with fist or hold defensive guard
Gupta want to stick nose where it dont belong
let circus begin
One thing that strikes me as odd about the vaccine mandate debate is than the organizations that are imposing the mandates seem unwilling to even consider an exemption to people who have already had Covid. It should be possible for someone to get tested for antibodies and prove that they have immunity. This is what tells me that these vaccine mandates are primarily being used for political purposes instead of medical ones.
I’m pro-vaccine.
Vaccine.
I had to get the Moderna shots. All of a sudden, my monthly bloodwork (for something else) is showing misshapen red blood cells, weird variants of white cells, and overall inexplicable results. None of which have anything to do with my condition nor existed before the Moderna shots.
I have test records going back three years. This is totally new and disturbing enough for my doctor to order bi-weekly blood tests.
I know of one other person with identical results. Who ya gonna call, the CDC? They can’t even figure out if I’m a female when I go for my annual mammogram. I have to assert that I am two times on each form now.
Welcome to fascism, where the lies vie only with the official silence.
In his article, Gupta said, "I don't think I have ever had a conversation that long with anyone." He ought to try it more often.
Still, he framed his article as engaging in a form of verbal combat with Rogan. He was trying to score points. He was the deliverer of knowledge but not a learner. He has some good points. However, he does not recognize that the lies and misleading information from authorities (e.g., then-masks don't work, now-we'll shame you if you don't wear a mask) have eroded their credibility. Many folks feel that can't trust what's being said now. Is current information another Noble Lie? He also doesn't mention that his own network was incredibly misleading in its characterization of Rogan taking horse de-wormer. He works for CNN. His colleagues contribute to the unreliability of "authorities", but he has trouble delving into that.
I was wondering why Gupta went on Rogan's show. He must have known Rogan would call him out and he'd have no answers. Now it all makes sense. He went on the show so he'd have the moral standing to write a dismissal of Rogan's ideas. He wasn't there to change the minds of people who watch Rogan's show. He was there to reassure vacillating CNN audience members that they're not missing anything by sticking with CNN and ignoring Rogan. "You've heard a lot about him and thought maybe you'd give him a try. Well, I went on that show and I'm here to tell you: Don't bother. Sincerely, your best doctor friend."
On rare occasions I've caught Sanjay Gupta's little medical blurbs on the radio, sandwiched in
as they are, between commercial sets at the top/bottom of the hour. Everything he says is complete word salad and hyper partisan in its approach. One segment in particular was just so over the top on climate change, I just rolled my eyes and changed the station. But given that his tagline is "CNN's Medical Expert" he does have to keep to the party line.
Echoing what MikeR said above about "horse dewormer", perhaps we should remind all of these so-called experts that those "life saving" doses of Coumadin are nothing more than a modified version of rat poison (Warfarin)? Horrors!
It’s all illusion with the mediaswine. I watched the referenced exchange about young boys. Gupta got his ass kicked. He would like everyone to pretend otherwise.
“I get what he's saying, but only some subset of boys that age are going to be infected, whereas vaccination would reach all of them. I'm not sure the trade-off is as easy as he suggests.”
It probably is, when you consider that the chance of those boys dying, absent significant comorbidities, from COVID-19 is almost nonexistent, but appears to be above nonexistent for the side effects of the vaccines.
The problem is that the risk of dying from COVID-19 by age is almost exponential, while there appears to be a negative relationship between age and side effects. I am over 70 now, and the trade offs may be in favor of being vaccinated. But for healthy kids, it is almost certainly not the case - all risk, and essentially zero benefit.
MikeR said...
Wow. The whole article did not mention the point that is actually the reason for the article. That is, the short clip where Rogan grilled Gupta about "horse dewormer".
I don't actually care that much about Rogan's views on vaccines, nor really about Gupta's views about vaccines. I care a lot that the most important media sources are trying to propagandize us and are willing to intentionally mislead us to do it. Gupta got caught in the middle, basically admitted to Rogan that that had happened to him, then went on CNN and basically admitted that mumble mumble mumble.
Now he published an article that pretended that none of that part happened. Which will probably work fine, because anyone who reads it didn't hear about it anyhow.
This is it; a pretty good summary of my view of the Rogan/Trump fan viewpoint. That the singular success of this Rogan podcast was to get Dr. Sanjay Gupta in front of a Joe Rogan mic, so that Rogan could run down the CNN error in characterizing his Ivermectin as "horse de-wormer." It's all about the media battle. And of all the stories about the podcast, I see that the Althouse blog post is typical. Trump-leaning outlets focus almost exclusively on the CNN reporting part of the interview, and not on the basic medicine involved in addressing COVID. "This is your network," Rogan badgered Gupta.
It's asymmetric warfare in some sense. Sanjay Gupta is a medical doctor, working as a journalist for a major mainstream news outlet. Joe Rogan is a self-described comedian, prone to lots of salty language, and like most comedians he is notably self-effacing when he is fact-checked the way that public officials and real journalists are. In the interview, Gupta was polite and deferential to host-Rogan. As if he was on a CNN broadcast as he so customarily is.
"I say dumb (expletive)," Rogan said last August, as reported in the MJS. "If you're getting vaccine advice from me, is that really my fault?" I presume that "dumb shit" is what Rogan said, that the MJS cleaned up for publication.
"You fucked up; you trusted us!" ~ Animal House, 1978.
I care much more about the ongoing pandemic, the continuing deaths and serious illness, the disruption of the national healthcare system, the economic disruption and dislocations, than about a single overwrought characterization on CNN. That is the position I am proud and happy to take, in any conversation about the Rogan interview of Dr. Gupta. I don't expect to convince anybody, or change any minds. I expect to create a deliberately chilly distance between myself and anybody who is a Rogan fan. I expect to be able to partially (and certainly not thoroughly) make them uncomfortable in a world where in all other respects, everything CNN does and says is wrong. Along with NYT, NPR, CBSABCNBC, et cetera, et cetera.
I was expecting this to also earn a "garner" tag because of this in Gupta's article,
At the same time, an Israeli study garnered a lot of attention after it appeared to show that natural immunity offered significant protection -- even stronger than two doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine in people who had never been infected."
CNN needs to take some Ivermectin.
Howard: "I just want to remind everybody that I introduced this blog to Joe Rogan podcast and Jordan Peterson."
I am not quite sure that is true, but its close enough.
Gupta is trying to save face, Rogan mopped the floor with him!
Gupta is trying to save face, Rogan mopped the floor with him!
Howard a great many of us didn’t need you to introduce us to the most popular podcast in history.
Just saying. Glad we both enjoy that magnificent meathead. Every meathead is right even more than twice a day.
From Wikipedia:
On January 6, 2009, CNN announced that Gupta had been considered for the position of Surgeon General by President-elect Barack Obama.
Some doctors said that his communication skills and high-profile would allow him to highlight medical issues and prioritize medical reform. Others raised concerns about potential conflicts of interest with drug companies who have sponsored his broadcasts and his lack of skepticism in weighing the costs and benefits of medical treatments.
It sounds like the critics were right. Gupta is too accepting of what the drug companies tell him and perhaps not the best judge of the risks involved with medical treatments. I wonder how well he weighs what medical journals tell him against what CNN tells him to say, or maybe the medical establishment itself is already so corrupted by the establishment version of things.
I'm sure that at some point in the future, Joe Rogan will give people reason to put him down and mock him, but this time it was Gupta who lost. Maybe we shouldn't think of this in terms of winners and losers, but if there aren't winners and losers than there aren't any consequences to being wrong.
CNN ramped up the covid hysteria last year to help get rid of president Trump. Now their guy (resident brandon) is getting killed in the polls because he continued with that hysteria.
Another case of "be careful what you wish for." Or is it "turnabout is fair play"
Chuck, the characterization of Ivermectin as a "horse dewormer" was not limited to one broadcast by CNN (as I suspect you know). It was repeated, many times, as an almost automatic part of the coverage, by multiple outlets including NPR. It's a perfectly suitable example of the odd dishonesty/ignorance that spreads like creeping charlie through mainstream media coverage of anything deemed "conservative" or even just somehow not in line with their current notion of the polite consensus.
It's a destructive and crystal-clear phenomenon that should horrify an honest liberal. The least honorable path is to deny it and mock those genuinely disturbed by it.
Medically scientifically intelligent comments requested on my observation/summation - to wit :
messengerRNA vaccine strategy is actually purpose design for hobbling [disable/suppress] people's natural immune system and make people responding as m(essenger)RNA instructed and not ?holistically? i.e. generate all possible anti-bodies but only per designed instructions
i.o.w. pharma goal is \/cellular level indoctrinating\/ every individual's immune system - a la current educational institutions
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