"... that he comes in contact with whose last name is not Trump. I was simply responding to what I thought the main point of the Atlantic article that at the critical point Saturday morning when the decision was made not to go to Aisne-Marne that he made the disparaging remarks, and he did not."
Said John Bolton, quoted in "John Bolton denies claim Trump disparaged fallen American soldiers in France: 'Simply false'/'The main issue was whether or not weather conditions permitted the president to go'" (Fox News).
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८० टिप्पण्या:
...and the wheels fly off another one...
I’ve seen Bolton’s denial portrayed as a partial admission—“he didn’t say Trump didn’t say it, he only said he didn’t hear Trump say it”—but he’s right. Bolton is being asked to prove a negative and this is the strongest statement he can honestly make. Dishonest people will continue to refuse to be convinced.
A criticism of Jeffrey Goldberg's Jewish journalism
.... If there is any justice, Goldberg’s career will be remembered primarily for a long, award-winning reported piece from Iraq that ran in The New Yorker in March 2002, at the height of the post-9/11 jingoistic fervor, which informed that magazine’s readership that Saddam Hussein had both an active WMD program and ties to Al-Qaeda. Goldberg endorsed George W. Bush’s catastrophic war of choice in an article for Slate later that year, in which he wrote, “I believe that the coming invasion of Iraq will be remembered as an act of profound morality.” He was hardly the only high-profile journalist to help launder what turned out to be false intelligence into the mainstream media, but whereas Judith Miller was pushed out by The New York Times in 2005 and has since become persona non grata in liberal elite circles, Goldberg’s status and influence have only grown. In this, he is representative of a whole cohort of centrist pundits—including The Atlantic’s Frum and Beinart, New York’s Jonathan Chait, The Washington Post’s Max Boot, and dozens of others—for whom hyping the Iraq War was a successful long-term career move.
Goldberg was initially lured from The New Yorker to The Atlantic by its then-owner David Bradley, who in 2007 brought ponies to Goldberg’s front lawn to entertain his children as part of his charm offensive. Goldberg interviewed Barack Obama four times over the course of his administration (and once before), as well as Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, Fidel Castro, Benjamin Netanyahu, Henry Kissinger, Jordan’s King Abdullah, his own colleague and friend Ta-Nehisi Coates, and many other big names. Obama even spoke at Goldberg’s synagogue (Adas Israel, a Conservative congregation in Northwest DC attended by many notables mentioned in this article) the day after Goldberg interviewed him in 2015. From the bimah, he thanked Goldberg for once describing him as “the first Jewish president.”
Jeffrey Goldberg is not a neoconservative, a Likudnik, or a Trump supporter, and while he did help Netanyahu hype a military strike on Iran in 2010, he also helped Obama sell the Iran nuclear deal in 2016. Goldberg is not part of the ascendant right. Rather, he is perhaps the single most representative figure of the liberal Zionist establishment in all of media, voicing the anxieties of a rapidly collapsing order. And with at least the passive approval of an elite network, Goldberg has spent years passing harsh, biblical judgment on both Jews and gentiles who dare to weigh in on issues related to Israel, from authors to organizations to U.S. presidents. ....
More than ever, Jeffrey Goldberg’s gatekeeping of opinion on Israel and world Jewry is in crisis. The cataclysm of hegemonic liberal values represented by both Trump and the renewed left comes at the expense of centrists like Goldberg. Goldberg represents what, at least until recently, was an influential set of attitudes among mainstream Jewish liberals. But his approach seems exhausted, unable to respond to the scale of the disaster Jewish liberals now confront, from the ultra-orthodox, pro-settlement coalition firmly in charge of Israel to White House-approved antisemitism in the U.S. Obsessively shutting down, belittling, and discouraging genuine progressive voices has not helped contain the far-right, but instead allowed it to grow until it threatens core liberal values. Goldberg undoubtedly sees the threat, but like the rest of the liberal establishment, he has no idea how to counter it. Instead, he’s spent years squashing those on the left who might have some answers. ...
So another trick smear bites the dust. That makes Trump’s career record 442 wins and no loses. No wonder he infuriates his opponents.
The Atlantic editor has admitted the "no fly" call because,well there IS direct evidence. But,of course he still claims the other.
And what does it matter. The Sunday talk shows were ablaze with this revelation. Biden could spout a few CYA words then go on a patriotism waving contest.
Sickening.
Can’t prove the negative
That’s why the burden of proof is on the accuser.
And “sounds like it could be true” isn’t the standard for truth.
Someone said over the weekend this fits “a pattern of behavior” from Trump, therefore we should give it credence.
You know what’s a larger pattern of behavior?
The media writing false stories about Trump using anonymous sources that are later debunked.
Dishonest people ARE convinced - of the fact that they are telling lies. They can privately agree with you, but they want to imagine themselves as winning so they have to put up a false front.
They wont admit it to their interlocutors because they are also happy to cheat on the equivalent of the Marquess of Queensbury rules for public argument. They are not fit for this civilized pastime.
These are vile people. They are the same sorts who will hide mistakes (such as by falsifying records) in the operation of critical infrastructure, who will conceal information that indicts their judgement in the conduct of their duties, that will blame others for their failures, that cannot be trusted to conduct purchasing through fair bidding, and etc.
The Venn diagram of journos who bought and peddled the Iraq WMD hoax, the Rolling Stone UVA rape hoax, the Russian collusion hoax, the Covington hoax, the Kavanaugh hoax, the Ukraine hoax, and the latest Atlantic hoax is a single circle. Take note of who’s inside it. — Sean Davis
The Atlantic story may have served an important pro-Biden function even if voters don't care about it: It pushed the protests/riots down in the news (if not off the front page). — Mickey Kaus
“The president has a habit of disparaging people. He ends up denigrating almost everybody that he comes in contact”
I don’t need a President who inspires me but does he have to be such a dick?
I'll say this about Bolton: He seems to actually live by his own code.
More than I can say about most folks who went anti-trump.
Meanwhile, anyone watch the video of Joe Biden reading a prepared answer to a labor employee on a Labor Day video conference? Joe started by clearing his throat and huskily asking for the (teleprompter) screen to be pulled up so he could read his answer.
This is not made up stuff. He cannot even answer a question posed by a laborer who is there in his favor. Even with them he needs prepared answers. And even with those answers, he can barely read them.
Ugh.
"He ends up denigrating everybody", where he means everybody = me and all my political friends that want Trump to go away when we smear him or try to Watergate him.
I could see how that would seem like everybody to John Bolton.
All of this stems from the fact that it was a bad idea to impugn St. McCains "war hero" status even though the guy was being an asshole to Trump. The President should have just said something like "no matter what he did in Vietnam, the man is wrong now etc.".
TRUTHINESS!
Blogger Kevin said...
Someone said over the weekend this fits “a pattern of behavior” from Trump, therefore we should give it credence.
You know what’s a larger pattern of behavior?
The media writing false stories about Trump using anonymous sources that are later debunked.
9/8/20, 6:31 AM
This was exactly my thought when 'evaluating' this asinine situation: the media have always, without exception, driven a heavy negative narrative. Why should we even entertain any kind of believably?
At this point, it no longer matters. The team "OrangeManBad" will believe ANYTHING and EVERYTHING anyone says that disparages Trump. Team "MAGA" will disbelieve ANYTHING and EVERYTHING anyone says that disparages Trump. Not good BUT review the last 4 years and which group do you think has the better odds of being right?
The left/never-Trumps/media DID THIS. The media could not and would not treat Trump with even the respect(HAHA) that they showed Bush. Had they done at least that and not dial the rancid partisanship up to 99 they might have a chance on getting some traction with the "other" side but after their "light bringer" ass kissing and their full fascistNazidictator Trump they have blown any credibility they might have had left with at least half the country.
Their only course now is to go full in on helping the left pull off the largest mail-voter fraud ever seen.
Mickey Kaus is right. The purpose of this story is to get the riots, the arson, and the murder off the front pages.
DEVELOPING: Investigators have learned that Obama CIA Director John Brennan ran a secret task force out of Langley with its own separate budget to investigate Trump campaign and alleged ties to Russia. Task force set up before FBI officially launched its own probe on 07/31/16
I would be ashamed to be on the same side as these people.
I saw that video - Bolton was clear on this - that Trump said those things about servicemen at that time - was false.
What the media are trying to do here is diabolical.
John Bolton is part of the Military-Industrial Complex, of which Eisenhower warned. He is angry that Trump is pulling the US away from a permanent war footing. If he says Trump didn't say it, it didn't happen.
Trump is not pacifist who wants to defund the military and invest in social justice. He's Jacksonian in that he believes we should have a very strong military but only use it in direct American interests. Nation building and Globalism would not qualify.
If we had committed to nuclear power and improved oil recovery after the artificial energy crises in the '70s, we could have saved thousands of soldiers lives and trillions of dollars.
Close call! The dems were suspected of being out of bullshit. They're coprophages!
Look - I watched this exact interview last night. To highlight this one quote was misleading. Bolton, who doesn't like Trump, was there two years ago, on that day. He says that "news" story coming out of The Atlantic, and from Jennifer Griffin of Fox news and her shadowy 'sources' is false. He testifies to this, and what do people hear, that he can't **prove** Trump didn't say it. These are truly terrible people.
Also, this type of thing is part of what drove me to vote for Trump in the first place - that the media acted like they were the super-sleuths against Trump (or McCain and Romney before him) while running interference for any "charge" against the Dem candidate. We just can't have a president with little to no media oversight. Too dangerous.
Trump also never said that white supremacists were good people. The media diabolically cut off the second part of the statement where Trump specifically excluded this group from his comment. And yet, they keep pushing this lie too. Biden pushes it - and people believe it.
Didn’t Trump go over to the Pentagon in connection with pulling out of Iraq and tell a roomful of senior brass that they were losers? Isn’t that what this is all about? Mattis was embarrassed because they were all his friends.
"He ends up denigrating almost everybody..."
By contrast, everybody doesn't end up denigrating Trump. Take Bolton himself: such a gentleman, living by the code of loyalty, putting country and office first.
He could have stopped at can't prove a negative.
"They" said he said something. Video or it didn't happen.
There were three or four Trump-positive news items, any one of which would have been a major weeklong news coup for a Dem, coverage of which the Atlantic article quashed. I, for one, expect the news to be negative, but when it is so fake as to be transparently imaginary, all I can do is shake my head and try to vote three or four times for Trump.
Todd sez: Team "MAGA" will disbelieve ANYTHING and EVERYTHING anyone says that disparages Trump.
I think I disagree with this statement. Almost every Pro Trumpy person says what a loose cannon he is, or that they hate his twitter spats, or that his verbal communication is jumbled, or like Althouse that Trump is just weird.
His supporters know all of his flaws and kinda still love the guy, but not in a hero-worship-can-do-no-wrong way.
"I don’t need a President who inspires me but does he have to be such a dick?"
You don't go to war against the Swamp with the President you want, you go to war against the Swamp with the President you have.
But his approach seems exhausted, unable to respond to the scale of the disaster Jewish liberals now confront, from the ultra-orthodox, pro-settlement coalition firmly in charge of Israel to White House-approved antisemitism in the U.S.
It's interesting to see this stuff in spite of the embassy move and the other evidence of Israel support. The anti-Semitism in the country I see is all on the left, from blacks and the Palestinian rump movement. Commentary is sort of this way, too.
tim in vermont said...
Mickey Kaus is right. The purpose of this story is to get the riots, the arson, and the murder off the front pages.
Except won't that just make the rioters up their game, unless their activity can be modulated by the Democrats?
tim in vermont said...
DEVELOPING: Investigators have learned that Obama CIA Director John Brennan ran a secret task force out of Langley with its own separate budget to investigate Trump campaign and alleged ties to Russia. Task force set up before FBI officially launched its own probe on 07/31/16.
I've been convinced that Brennan was running a similar anti-Trump operation since leaving the CIA. Everything smacks of Brennan turning all that spy "tradecraft" inward to domestic politics.
and peter bergen, did capture a feedback session of trump, listening to enlisted personnel about afghanistan,
You could prove a negative if it weren't for quantum mechanics, just by flying all the particles backwards.
When has Trump ever disparaged anyone who didn't attack him first? And when it happens, the person who started it gets off, and Trump gets blamed. Nobody in history has ever been attacked as much, and that includes mass murderers and war mongers. A man who used to have lots of friends became a instant monster because he won an election. He didn't change, his critics did.
As long as he does you people's bidding, you don't care if he holds you in extreme contempt. The real issue is will this story move swing voters in swing States to Biden. I don't think so because there is too much material against Trump, it gets lost in the cacophony.
The retarded msm-dnc cabal don't do "less is more". It's a miscalculation on par with nominating Hillary.
I’m starting to think Goldberg’s true purpose in this smear is to deal with his own cognitive dissonance. Trump has done much for peace in the a Middle East, especially of late. The Palm Beach County Jews of Florida might be wavering on Trump: maybe they’ll even vote for him. Thomas Friedman seems to have given tacit permission.
And Goldberg himself, a comfortable, liberal Diaspora Jew in America is deeply troubled by this good news. So he must lash out at the Orange Man because Orange Man Bad. Get rid of Orange Man because Orange Man Might Actualky Be Good and that is more than the liberal part of a Goldberg’s brain can endure. Further, after having helped create Orange Man Terrible how can he now turn?
He must destroy Trump to ease this dissonance.
Why do I believe civil war is coming? Because I am aware that if the reporter were shot and I was on the jury, I’d have to struggle to not nullify. So such feelings must be common now. This is not a good thing.
As Scott Adams has pointed out once again, it doesn’t matter to low information voters that the story is false. It’s OMB!
CBS interviewed Peter Strzok to get the lowdown on the Russia hoax. Peter Strzok! It never ends.
Fake But Accurate.
“The president has a habit of disparaging people who disparage him first.
And his disparagement is usually much tamer if you read the entire transcript than if you pull the one line out that's all the media tells you he said.
tim in vermont said...
“Mickey Kaus is right. The purpose of this story is to get the riots, the arson, and the murder off the front pages.”
“Except won't that just make the rioters up their game, unless their activity can be modulated by the Democrats?”
The fallacy is that AntiFA and BLM Commie Scum don’t take orders from the mother party very well. They are, at best, fellow travelers. Partners of convenience. AntiFA and BLM Commie Scum are either Marxists or anarchists, and their ultimate goal is the destruction of this country. The leaders of the Democrats prefer having a country and its economy to plunder. They really don’t want it all burned down. Commie Scum do. They believe that they are involved in a revolution, and part of it is the optics. They can’t afford to be relegated as a side show, which is what the top Dems are trying to do. So, I expect some daylight to open up between the two groups, as we proceed toward the election. Not a divorce, of course. The Dems, the Biden/Harris ticket, cannot afford to lose the Bernie Bros backing said Commie Scum.
The next two months are going to be interesting.
So, Goldberg lies about Trump, refuses to provide any evidence to support his attack on TRump, and we're all supposed to keep wondering whether its true or not. Can the Center-Right ever start MOCKING people, instead of always going the "Let me show you why you're wrong" route? Because doing that, just helps the Left.
All of this stems from the fact that it was a bad idea to impugn St. McCains "war hero" status even though the guy was being an asshole to Trump
Yet Obama could mock McCain for not being able to type to send emails and that was just fine.
As stated above, trump always COUNTER-attacks. His remark about McCain for example was a Counter attack when McCain attacked Trump as a Bigot or a clown (I forgot which). Its funny that McCain would constantly attack people he didn't like, and boast about being an angry asshole, and no one would say anything.
The same thing is true of Romney. Its only after Romney started - out of the blue - attacking Trump as a racist and demanding he release his tax returns, that Trump fired back. He still considered Mittens for Sec of State, AND endorsed him for Senate. Yet, Mittens returned the favor by stabbing Trump in the back during Impeachment. For Mitt Romney is an honorable man.
LilyBart said...
We just can't have a president with little to no media oversight. Too dangerous.
That is the danger in electing Democrats. You wind up with the FBI and CIA spying on Republicans in a manner that makes Watergate look trivial.
So who is Mickey Kaus voting for? It seems to me that in Trump he finally got the Democratic president he's been campaigning for..
back on your heads,
https://thefederalist.com/2020/09/08/vindman-not-whistleblower-was-driving-force-behind-impeachment/
Hi Bruce Hayden.
I agree that the people running the Democrat Party see AntiFA and the BLM Commie Scum as tools to use, and that those scum don't consider themselves part of the Democrats.
However, as we saw in Berkeley (when the Oath Keepers showed up and beat up Antifa) and in Kenosha (Kyle 3, bad guys 0), the Democrats are perfectly capable of shutting down the riots, they just refuse to do so.
Now, I agree that the people running the D side do not WANT to shut down the riots. But I'm positive they can do so, when they decide it's in their interest
But his approach seems exhausted, unable to respond to the scale of the disaster Jewish liberals now confront, from the ultra-orthodox, pro-settlement coalition firmly in charge of Israel to White House-approved antisemitism in the U.S.
They have to push their lies. "White House-approved antisemitism"? That would be, what, al the bigoted remarks coming from "The Squad"? Or, maybe, Trump moving the US Embassy to Jerusalem?
There's no idiot like a "progressive" idiot
They can’t afford to be relegated as a side show, which is what the top Dems are trying to do. So, I expect some daylight to open up between the two groups, as we proceed toward the election. Not a divorce, of course. The Dems, the Biden/Harris ticket, cannot afford to lose the Bernie Bros backing said Commie Scum.
That is going to be an interesting needle to thread. I doubt they can do it. You see some edging toward "law and order" after recent polls but I see no slackening of the riots. If Joe's handlers get too far toward law and order, the Bernie Bros pushing BLM will have an incentive to prove how indispensable they are. Could get amusing. The St Louis and Portland Mayors are now in hiding.
The narrative that launched another 16 trimesters of witch hunts, warlock trials, and protests, maybe. Hopefully, people aren't that green.
This is the oldest political trick in the book. Accuse someone of something terrible and ask them to prove it didn't happen.
This is not difficult, people. Please follow along.
The Republicans are just to stupid not to do it themselves.
Why doesn't anyone ask Joe if he's stopped snorting cocaine with Hunter?
Jim in St Louis said...
I think I disagree with this statement. Almost every Pro Trumpy person says what a loose cannon he is, or that they hate his twitter spats, or that his verbal communication is jumbled, or like Althouse that Trump is just weird.
I sometimes wonder if it's really Trump or the fact that we've seen a lot of Republican big wigs open their mouths and screw the pooch.
I will put Phil D down for wanting a nice guy who loses every time but doesn't offend Phil D's delicate ears.
One side wants to make you a serf, Phil D.
And you're worried about feelz?
WTF is wrong with you?
Do you want to be a serf?
Or do you just think the BAMN crowd is bull shitting about their goals?
So now the rest of the story falls apart, he didn’t say things about soldiers, he said them about generals, and likely, I suppose, they used stuff he said about that weasel who was part of the whole Russa hoax, John McCain and pretended he said it about soldiers dead in WWI.
"As long as he does you people's bidding, you don't care if he holds you in extreme contempt.”
It’s called realpolitik. Same as anybody who thinks he opposes these endless wars should vote for Trump as a matter of realpolitik. If you are not against war, just on the other side, feel free to vote for Biden. As a matter of record, I don’t believe that he holds his voters in contempt. I think that The Atlantic holds readers like Howard contempt, knowing that he will believe any bullshit they make up, not just believe it, but run out and defend it after it has completely disintegrated.
goldberg quoted right out of the godfather part 2 film, which doesn't make me regard him in good stead,
"Mickey Kaus is right. The purpose of this story is to get the riots, the arson, and the murder off the front pages."
That's not all they're working to keep off the front page.
"This week there was a spectacular jobs report, an incredible diplomatic triumph, peace in Kenosha the moment the national guard arrived (proving the President’s point), and a nasty anonymous rumor about something the President is supposed to have said two years ago. Three of these are newsworthy. The fourth is what the news professionals are talking about."
"If we had committed to nuclear power and improved oil recovery after the artificial energy crises in the '70s, we could have saved thousands of soldiers lives and trillions of dollars."
Going forward, how stupid is the dem/left plan to abandon energy independence when we've finally achieved it? Murderously stupid.
Howard said, "As long as he does you people's bidding, you don't care if he holds you in extreme contempt."
As long as Trump does my "bidding" he gets my vote and doesn't care whether I hold him in contempt or not.
From the New York Times From September 4 (old news - he didn't hear what others did as later confirmed by Fox News reporter Jennifer Griffen).
John R. Bolton, the president’s former national security adviser who has broken with him and called him unfit for office, said he was on the trip in question and never heard Mr. Trump make those remarks. “I didn’t hear that,” Mr. Bolton said in an interview. “I’m not saying he didn’t say them later in the day or another time, but I was there for that discussion.”
Yes, gadfly, we will all admit you are willfully stupid.
Now what?
Goldberg has walked the whole thing back, but gadfly fights on, long after the punch bowl is gone. This is why you are a joke around here gadfly.
Shorter Gadfly:
The story was clearly wrong in the most important detail, but could still be true, according to John Bolton who wasn't Trump's Siamese twin.
When I first read The Atlantic Story, that penultimate scene from The Godfather Part II immediately came back to me- the language was almost identical in tone and sentiment. I dismissed it because it could easily be that Trump himself has seen the movie more than once like me, and reused the language for another occasion. However, the uncovering of Goldberg's own obsession with the two movies puts that dismissal to rest.
You want to know how I think this article got started? Goldberg started with his own belief that Trump has a low opinion of military personnel of all ranks, and reached out to someone he knows personally and who might have been in a position to hear things first or second hand about Trump, probably with a leading question like, "Have you ever heard Trump refer to soldiers and veterans as saps or suckers?" Goldberg, knowing the person was anti-Trump knew the person would be willing to play along and recruit friends. However, the problem is that these people could not be named for the very reason that they are Democrats and are probably making it up.
Original Mike said...
"If we had committed to nuclear power and improved oil recovery after the artificial energy crises in the '70s, we could have saved thousands of soldiers lives and trillions of dollars."
Going forward, how stupid is the dem/left plan to abandon energy independence when we've finally achieved it? Murderously stupid.
9/8/20, 1:45 PM
Haven't you heard? They're not against fracking! They never were! And Trump wants to defund the police- Biden said so! Such a scurrilous statement that the dem/left plan to abandon energy independence.
Now where did I out that sarcasm tag....
Howard said, "As long as he does you people's bidding, you don't care if he holds you in extreme contempt."
Howard thinks that instead we shoudl vote for people like John McCain, who held us in extreme contempt AND refused to "do our bidding".
News flash: I vote for politicians to get things done. If they violate my principles while imposing them on others, I'll dump them, because they make my principles look bad (see Bill Clinton and feminism, for how the Democrats do NOT do this)
But if they advance my goals, while hating it every second, I couldn't care less.
So, I know the Goldberg story is utter crap. But even if it weren't, and Trump held me in utter contempt, I wouldn't care, so long as he continued to do my bidding
I mark up Goldberg's recent article and shameless lies to virtue signalling. I don't know the details of his motivation, perhaps he does feel vulnerable to acusations of appreciating Trump's vision and what he has done to advance peace in the Middle East, as MJordan suggested.
Mike Sylwester's quote set me off on an endless and not particularly enlightening rabbit hole of links. I find Goldberg and those who write about him tiresomely verbose. They have to produce words, so even when there is one idea which could be expressed in a sentence that is then padded with vocabulary and endless digression. They learned their writing technique writing term papers with word count requirements.
I confess to not knowing anything about Goldberg but now I understand that he is part of an actual group of Jewish DC elites who know each other and have decided they have the authority to define what "most" American Jews think or should think. Anybody who's anybody reads The Atlantic, we are told. Most of all their bias is towards the Democrat Party/Obama's vision of the "Israeli Palestinian" conflict (i.e., it's all Israel's fault and the solution is to weaken Israel) which is being shown to be counterproductive and deeply flawed. We are seeing now that what those people think doesn't matter, what matters is what is happening. That must piss off Jeffrey Goldberg.
Mike Sylwester said...
Rather, he is perhaps the single most representative figure of the liberal Zionist establishment in all of media, voicing the anxieties of a rapidly collapsing order. And with at least the passive approval of an elite network, Goldberg has spent years passing harsh, biblical judgment on both Jews and gentiles who dare to weigh in on issues related to Israel, from authors to organizations to U.S. presidents. ....
More than ever, Jeffrey Goldberg’s gatekeeping of opinion on Israel and world Jewry is in crisis. The cataclysm of hegemonic liberal values represented by both Trump and the renewed left comes at the expense of centrists like Goldberg. Goldberg represents what, at least until recently, was an influential set of attitudes among mainstream Jewish liberals. But his approach seems exhausted, unable to respond to the scale of the disaster Jewish liberals now confront, from the ultra-orthodox, pro-settlement coalition firmly in charge of Israel to White House-approved antisemitism in the U.S. Obsessively shutting down, belittling, and discouraging genuine progressive voices has not helped contain the far-right, but instead allowed it to grow until it threatens core liberal values. Goldberg undoubtedly sees the threat, but like the rest of the liberal establishment, he has no idea how to counter it. Instead, he’s spent years squashing those on the left who might have some answers. ...
9/8/20, 5:56 AM
Words fail. I'm certain Jeffrey Goldberg is a Reform Jew, which is to say not really a Jew at all. But it takes brass balls to call his condemnations "biblical" when he doesn't believe in the actual Orthodox rabbis that govern actual Judaism, never mind the rules laid out in the Hebrew or Christian Bibles.
And why on Earth would any Jew possibly listen to this incompetent grifter when Donald Trump has delivered Israel diplomatic respect and support well beyond anything it has ever enjoyed? How can the prosperity of the Jewish people be such a disaster for American "Jews?" When the Americans aren't ruling, that's clear. They obviously don't worship any Biblical deity: is it Satan these renegades serve? Is the child molesting blackmail network set up by the daughter of a famed Mossad agent and a shadowy billionaire something Israel can eagerly disavow, at great cost to American Jews? Inquiring minds want to know!
Gospace said...."...how stupid is the dem/left plan to abandon energy independence..."
We are beyond stupid - just look at California where I live. Several days of high temperatures and we've had rolling brownouts. In my town actual shutting down of stores for over 6 hours. Businesses will not take such actions for to long. I remember the Billbord in Seattle which stated - “Will the last person leaving Seattle — turn out the lights”. Truly amazing, I've now experienced CA decline to 3rd world status. Similar to my experience in Latin America. History always repeats itself - because our leaders are a mediocre bunch of arrogant - 'I know better' Elites.
My family in California currently have no AC. SoCal edison cut it off 4 hours ago while it was 112. It’s currently 100 degrees.
But remember, California wants electric cars.
These people are dumb as a rock.
tim in vermont: "Goldberg has walked the whole thing back, but gadfly fights on, long after the punch bowl is gone. This is why you are a joke around here gadfly."
Our Poor Man's LLR-lefty ***** gadfly still thinks there was a Trump Tower deal in Moscow!!
LOL
Shorter gadfly: It's what John Bolton did not hear, nor anyone else, that is the most damning.
Tune in tomorrow when gadfly regales us with Tales Of Other Things Not Said That Are Equally Damning!
It looks like this is scuttlebutt and gossip - underlings speculating about why the boss does what he does - but it's striking that this story didn't provoke any discussion about the First World War and our involvement in it. While it was a popular war at the time with most Americans, there was much bitterness and disillusionment afterwards with the war and its consequences. For German-Americans like Trump's father the anger and resentment was particularly acute. I'm not saying Trump said it or that it would be excusable if he did, but what he's accused of saying was what many Americans, even those who fought in that war, were saying after the war.
national review jumped to goldberg's defense, last week, a little like they denigrated the huntress a dozen years ago,
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2009/11/with-friends-like-sarah-palin/30395/
@doctrev There's no Pope in Judaism, there's no king, except for the One known as the King of the World, the "I am that I am." There is not a single central organization in Judaism, there are organizations within organizations, none of which speaks for all Jews. There is not even a rule that you have to believe in God, although personally I do not see the point of thinking you are Jewish if you don't believe in a higher power or creator. But many others do. They believe that Judaism is about being a good human and not about worshiping a divine creator. There are some core shared beliefs but no universal requirement that you accept them, except probably the precept that Jews worship one God and not idols.
No one was responsible for Jeffrey Epstein's actions except for him. What he did was anathema to Jewish morality and that is fundamentally known by anyone who knows anything about Jews/Judaism. There is no reason to state the obvious nor is there a way for Israel as a people to disavow Epstein for the sake of convincing anti-semites.
However many people connected with the philanthropist Leslie Wexner, who was closely tied to Epstein, have condemned Epstein. They are horrified by Epstein and Wexner's long association with Epstein which ended in 2007. See: The relationship between Jeffrey Epstein and Jewish philanthropist Leslie Wexner, explained
Rosalyn C. said...
@doctrev There's no Pope in Judaism, there's no king, except for the One known as the King of the World, the "I am that I am." There is not a single central organization in Judaism, there are organizations within organizations, none of which speaks for all Jews. There is not even a rule that you have to believe in God, although personally I do not see the point of thinking you are Jewish if you don't believe in a higher power or creator. But many others do. They believe that Judaism is about being a good human and not about worshiping a divine creator. There are some core shared beliefs but no universal requirement that you accept them, except probably the precept that Jews worship one God and not idols.
No one was responsible for Jeffrey Epstein's actions except for him. What he did was anathema to Jewish morality and that is fundamentally known by anyone who knows anything about Jews/Judaism. There is no reason to state the obvious nor is there a way for Israel as a people to disavow Epstein for the sake of convincing anti-semites.
However many people connected with the philanthropist Leslie Wexner, who was closely tied to Epstein, have condemned Epstein. They are horrified by Epstein and Wexner's long association with Epstein which ended in 2007. See: The relationship between Jeffrey Epstein and Jewish philanthropist Leslie Wexner, explained
9/8/20, 7:15 PM
I don't usually repost everything someone says, but I want this saved for posterity. Rosalyn, you are very confused, because you try to advance two exclusive positions in the same moment. Who are you to say that Jeffrey Epstein is anathema to Jewish morality? Because apparently Judaism doesn't require written scripture, rabbinical authority, cultural tradition, documented history, or even belief in God. Any fool can believe he's a good human, whether he's destroying the innocence of children or committing genocide as ordered by the Almighty. Without your being aware of it, your confessed position is that "Jewish morality" is an oxymoron. While there are white nationalists who advance that view, I reject it generally (specifically in the case of the clearly defined Orthodox Jewish positions), and would do so in all circumstances had I not been exposed to your uniquely flawed argument.
As fun as clowning on your misguided theology is, it's also a red herring. None of that has direct relevance to how the daughter of a lionized Israeli intelligence agent and her mysteriously nouveau riche "partner" suddenly came into such wealth and influence. There are many who suspect sexual blackmail was involved, others who suggest a major corporate/ state backer laid the foundation of Epstein's network, and some who believe both. I'm not asking you to spend inordinate time refuting that. But such crimes might explain Jeff Goldberg and the neoconservative press running around, foaming and shrieking like Emperor Trump is going to order them expelled from the Iberian peninsula. At first I thought this was performative liberalism covering up genuine mental illness, but now I wonder. Do they know something I do not?
@doctrev
You came to a false conclusion based on your obvious ignorance and irrational antipathy towards Jews.
You claim that I said or implied there is no such thing as morality in Judaism, "Because apparently Judaism doesn't require written scripture, rabbinical authority, cultural tradition, documented history, or even belief in God." I never said any of that because it would be completely untrue.
Anybody who knows Judaism knows that the Torah is holy, the study of the written law and history of the Jewish people is sacred. Reform temples as well as Conservative and Orthodox congregations base their worship on Torah.
But there is no litmus test for individual Jews to determine their Jewishness. Within individual sects, especially among the Orthodox, there is an expectation of conformity in behavior and shared beliefs, but overall, as I tried to explain, there is no rigid code of excommunication. People are expected to learn and to grow and evolve or at least given the freedom and opportunity to do so. That's why, for example, Chabad is so generous in sharing the knowledge.
I don't expect you to understand or accept this explanation. I say that based on the fact that you are fixated on Epstein and his girlfriend being the daughter of a Mossad agent, as if that has anything to do with Judaism or them with the rest of the Jewish people. They only represent themselves. You are malignantly anti-Semitic imo.
I offered a link to an article which details the turmoil of the Jewish community directly affected by Wexner's association with Epstein -- but your comment indicates either you have not bothered to read it or you are beyond rational discussion.
I'm sorry you didn't get something of value from my comment. It was offered in good faith.
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