The anti-Trumpism of The Washington Post is on display in
"Three dead in national parks as shutdown wears on":
Three days after most of the federal workforce was furloughed on Dec. 21, a 14-year-old girl fell 700 feet to her death at the Horseshoe Bend Overlook, part of the Glen Canyon Recreation Area in Arizona. The following day, Christmas, a man died at Yosemite National Park in California after suffering a head injury in a fall. On Dec. 27, a woman was killed by a falling tree at Great Smoky Mountains National Park, which straddles the borders of North Carolina and Tennessee.
It's not as if a federal worker would have been there to catch them. What is even the theoretical connection between the shutdown and these fatal falls?
The deaths follow a decision by Trump administration officials to leave the scenic — but sometimes deadly — parks open even as the Interior Department has halted most of its operations. During previous extended shutdowns, the National Park Service barred access to many of its sites across the nation.
Oh, I see. If only the parks were
closed, they wouldn't have been there at all. This would argue in favor of permanently closing all the national parks because if people go there, they might die. But the real argument, thinly veiled, is that if only the parks were closed (like in past shutdowns), the shutdown would affect a lot of real people who could be shown complaining about their wrecked vacation.
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The person that wrote that article is a terrible human being.
...
Ridiculous. These accidents would have happened anyway because people do stupid things. But why blame Trump for the shutdown, anyway? It's the intransigence of Congress most at fault. Pelosi announced even before negotiations that she wouldn't yield an inch to Trump.
I hope the government stays shut down for the next two years and all we talk about is the Democrats demand for eliminating our borders.
Nobody even notices the government is shut down.
Democrats are obviously killing people in the parks.
Obama isn't in power to shut off oxygen shipments to seniors and MEALS-on-Wheels.
This scenario is right from The Romanoffs.
Our National Parks are over-whelmed and "loved to death". Most are over-populated with humans, human debris and human waste.
You'd think the good democratics at the WaPo would be on the side of the Parks.
Give the parks a break. Let them close for a while.
If people choose to venture in -it's at theri own risk. Of course the WaPo democratics would like to remove all risk from life and make life a perfect democratic fascist paradise.
Gee - I wonder why Americans are turning away from the hack press?
WaPo is bad faith for the the true believer.
You don't see the buffalo around Yellowstone rioting, like you did under Obama.
I hope the government stays shut down for the next two years and all we talk about is the Democrats demand for eliminating our borders.
Nobody even notices the government is shut down.
Well, except for the Border Patrol, who are working without pay now.
Our National Parks are over-whelmed and "loved to death". Most are over-populated with humans, human debris and human waste.
Maybe this is true about the very popular parks but I often visit National Parks in many states and have found them well managed and pristine.
It is still all about "undoing" the 2016 election, but if you wish to have a country with a representative government, it does not work that way - if you don't like the result of an election, you still need to just grin and bear it.
A government is necessary, and if a representative government can't provide it, a strongman will rise to fill the void.
Far left liberals aka Wapo writers are mentally ill.
Btw, I applaud the Wapo for its absolutely no free reads a month website- it really saves me from being tempted to read their crappy propaganda. Thanks Mr. Bezos!
Yeah I'm with Mockturtle on this.When i visit our state and federal parks I always wonder why more Americans don't seem to visit the parks. The parks I've been to are generally not crowded or dirty.
How many bears died.
In the three days after most of the federal workforce was furloughed on Dec. 21, nearly 10,000 people died in traffic accidents.
Sure, this article sounds vile, despicable, but in context it makes perfect sense. Obama aggressively employed the Washington Monument strategy and Trump does not. Therefore, the Washington Monument strategy must be a moral imperative.
Democratic operatives with bylines.
hmmm,
I wonder how many people die die in National parks per fortnight normally?
More? or Less? I'd bet dollars to donuts the answer is: MORE!
Oh, I see. If only the parks were closed, they wouldn't have been there at all.
That’s a “preventability” argument better suited for securing the border against entry into the country by illegal aliens who later commit crimes, as required by existing law.
Conversely, Americans are supposed to have access to their national parks.
Well, it's not like these things didn't happen during the Obama administration, when the government wasn't shut down....
https://althouse.blogspot.com/2016/06/a-23-year-old-man-who-walked-off.html
In 1972 I befriended a wildlife filmmaker (nationally known, contributor to Hellstrom Chronicle), who was working on a documentary on how overused the nation's parks had become.
The pristine appearance notwithstanding, overuse is a relative thing. I would have to ask those of the late 60s park users' observations. My state's parks are looking like grade school playgrounds.
More people die of selfie falls than are struck by lightning. Popularizing skateboarding down library handrails and such was bound to have devastating effects on some youths. Risk evaluation errors have consequences, I know, but the death by Falling Tree story is really "insufficient data" on steroids.
If a fool falls to their death in a national park, but there are no park rangers to hear them, did they make a sound?
On average, approximately 160 visitors per year die while recreating in the National Park System.
“Overall, the risk of being injured or killed while visiting a national park is very low when we look at rates across the NPS,” Jeremy Barnum, public affairs officer at National Park Service, says.
“For example, when looking at fatality rates during the 2007-2013 time frame, the average rate is 0.57 deaths/1 million visits,” he adds. The total number of fatalities for that 7-year period of time in all 59 parks is 1,025.
"Math is hard". (Journalist Barbie)
Gotta tell you, if the press didn't go all 'what are we going to do?' in their reports that I only occasionally see, I wouldn't even notice that the gummint had closed.
Did anyone, outside of those furloughed, notice?
I say- furlough Congress for a year. They and their entire staffs. Use that money to keep the Park Rangers in place so the press can sleep at night. (ps- not sure the bears in Yellowstone noticed that the rangers were missing). Pay for the Border Patrol. Maybe pay for the garbage cans around the National Mall to be emptied. (that was another cry for help I read about in the press).
Seriously- what would happen if Congress just wasn't there for a few months? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
I wonder how many people die die in National parks per fortnight normally?
More? or Less? I'd bet dollars to donuts the answer is: MORE!
Good question!
In typically torturous MSM prose, the WaPo article says that 3 people died from Dec 21 and Dec 27, = about 1/2 death per day. The same WaPo outfit claims that about 140 people die in Nat Parks every year ~= .38 deaths per day.
Rangers are omniscient and omnipresent. They would have been there to catch the falling girl and the falling tree but for Trump.
"It's not as if a federal worker would have been there to catch them."
Ha.
Your denominator should be the total number of days of the “shutdown” as the measure of risk exposure, not the ex post day span between actualized deaths.
On average 120-140 die in a national park each year. 2-3 a week.. 4-6 every two weeks.
The Democrat media complex has a problem: this shutdown is limited and there is no drama associated with it. During the Obama years, he engineered shutdown theater, putting up barricades around national parks and monuments, kicking elderly veterans out of memorials and the like. The Democrat media complex has to promote a story, any story, that dramatizes the shutdown. If they do not, this could go on for months before voters feel its effect. Tying these incidents to the shutdown is weak sauce and they know it, but it's the best they got.
"Death" "Journalism"
Tags that go together.
Chuck Schumer's constant pronouncements that the shutdown is Trump's fault, makes Schumer look like a toddler.
Your denominator should be the total number of days of the “shutdown” as the measure of risk exposure, not the ex post day span between actualized deaths.
Whose denominator? I used the info in the article/post, which only covers Dec 21 to Dec 27.
BB sez: My state's parks are looking like grade school playgrounds.
State parks are a whole 'nother thing.
All people who die during Trump's frightful reign can blame Trump.
Kaus quotes: "National Park Service spokesman Jeremy Barnum said in an email that an average of six people die each week in the park system, a figure that includes 'accidents like drownings, falls, and motor vehicle crashes and medical related incidents such as heart attacks.' Drowning, automobile accidents and falls are among the top causes of death at national parks." So Trump week in the parks is an unusually good week, with a low number of fatalities, which are hardly preventable in any case.
"in favor of permanently closing all the national parks because if people go there, they might die"
It doesn't take much to bring this same silly argument to everyday life. "If people didn't drive cars, use knives and power tools, etc."
You'll be excused from class, and won't be punished this time, if you champion the idea that each person is responsible for him/her|self (yes, there are only two) and that exercising personal responsibility is the only way to go.
All hard surfaces should be covered in foam rubber. If it saves just one life...
How many were killed by "assault rifles" during the week? I'm betting zero.
Does Trump get credit for all the births too?
People assume risks with diverse activities. It's a choice, with consequences, without a simple solution. Nature does not yield to personal beliefs about her order.
The shutdown will like end some time this month, but if it continued into the Summer, it is likely no one will be noticing it by that time.
The better argument for closing all the national parks and other public lands is that they represent the most racist institution in the land; you will rarely see a black or brown face in any of those vaunted parks, though all our citizens pay for them.
You won't even see a non-white face in the millions of photos and documentaries taken in the public lands. There are lots of things our minorities would like and need, and visits to our parks, forests and monuments aren't high on the list.
Now's our chance to offer them up for sale.
I was curious about the man dying from a fall and a head wound on Christmas Day. I realize not everyone celebrates Christmas, but a lot of people do get depressed during that time. Unforunately, they haven't been able to complete a full investigation. SFGate reported there were 11 deaths in 2018 in Yosemite, 7 due to falls. With that frequency, it seems this death is just coincidentally during the shutdown.
Jimbino shows up to ride his favorite hobby horse. Perhaps he should add that Trump's shutdown is hitting the white man the hardest
Flatlanders die in nature all the time.
"But the real argument, thinly veiled"
You mean, blatantly obvious? Since the real "argument" is Orange Man Bad?
Anyway, since the shutdown is clearly saving lives, let's keep it going. Could be the most effective public health measure yet.
What do Mueller-Hillary have to say about it?
Yes, but how many lives have been saved by fewer commuters on the road due to government workers not driving around?
This reminds me of the stories we get when there is a blizzard. The news reports of the number of people who died because of the storm, which is typically in the single digits. Left unsaid is the number of people who did not die in car accidents, which are typically reduced because less people are driving and the ones who are driving are driving slowly. We get the big story of the two people who tragically hit an ice sheet and careened off the road to their death, but not of the twenty people who stayed home and had a relatively uneventful day of shoveling snow and drinking hot cocoa.
News reporters are not the brightest bunch and their inability to distinguish between aggressive disasters like forest fires and earthquakes and more passive ones like snowstorms is simply another example.
Needs a TDS tag.
And question: If a tree falls on a woman and kills her, does the sound stop when she dies?
People die every day in our National Parks and Forests.
You know the WaPo really sucks when even half the Trump hating commenters say the story is misleading.
Man. The economic broken window fallacy really helps in so many ways other then hating window makers.
I wonder if the shutdown is lessening CO2 emissions?
Ambrose: You have to offset the fewer automobiles with the more politicians talking. That's a lot of hot air being released into the atmosphere.
I was a Park Ranger years ago, first job after college. Graduated on a Saturday, started on Monday. Historical Parks, Valley Forge and Gettysburg, so not a 'western' park situation. No deaths on my watch, most violations were sexual in nature. I'll never forget marching through the Artillery Park at Valley Forge with 6 other Rangers in Continental uniforms approaching an evening public program when we marched passed a pair of naked lesbians on a blanket behind a shrub. You will see all types of wildlife in the National Parks I can assure you. As for the recent Park visitor tumbles, I would suggest suicides unfortunately. We were recently hiking around Howth, Ireland and noticed many of those floral/cross type memorials on the trail along the coastline. Asking at a pub after our hike, we expressed surprise at so many accidental falls, while the trail was crude, it wasn't necessarily dangerous if I could make it. The bar keep informed me that those were for suicides.
If it's as simple as a government shutdown that's killing people in our national parks, may I submit a list of suggested visitors?
jimbino: You won't even see a non-white face in the millions of photos and documentaries taken in the public lands.
Good ol' jimbino. You see lots of East Asians (American and foreign) in national parks. I understand that they count as "white" for race-hustling "victimhood poker" games these days, though.
There are lots of things our minorities would like and need, and visits to our parks, forests and monuments aren't high on the list.
You've never explained why tax dollars shouldn't go to public goods white people like. Whites are still the majority and pay most of the taxes, after all.
Or why preferentially spending money on things "minorities" (jimbino-speak for "blacks and Hispanics") want isn't "racist".
My state's (possessive) parks include federal and state land. They look like grade school playgrounds. Like Leland I'm always curious about "death by misadventure". J-walking 3 lane thoroughfares past midnight, crossing busy expressways on foot etc. My favorite one is being "hit by a train" while walking the tracks. IMHO... suicide.
Althouse fiddles while Rome burns.
The deaths follow a decision by Trump administration officials to leave the scenic — but sometimes deadly — parks open
Media to Trump: Walls Prevent Unsafe Entry
What does a grade school playground like? Ive seen that comment made twice on this thread.
I've seen the rest stops on the Southern Tier Expressway in New York. The trash bins are overflowing and the trash is blowing down the hill slopes ruining the scenic views. It looks like a grade school playground. It started a few years back, why I never knew. I blame Cuomo. Maybe we could get the state parks cleaned up if the national parks start to look like state parks and everyone gets churned up about the issue and busy blaming Trump and then, finally, they start noticing and caring about what Cuomo and his kind have done for years to state parks. MAGA
you will rarely see a black or brown face in any of those vaunted parks, though all our citizens pay for them
It's almost like black or brown face owners can do whatever the hell they want because they have free will and if they don't want to go to a national park, it's none of your damn business.
@Chickenlittle and @Angle-Dyne, Samurai Buzzard
Chickenlittle can't seem to post a cogent argument, but seems to prefer pure ad hominem.
Angle-Dyne doesn't seem to get the idea that subsidizing white country-club parks and forests, or chitlins and menudo, is not a reasonable policy compared to letting both our minorities and majorities enjoy their parks and other entertainment like they do sex, booze and cellphones -- without government subsidy and the implicit taxes.
It would do all of us good to stick to the issues, which are basically these: (https://grist.org/climate-energy/want-to-attract-a-new-generation-to-the-national-parks-find-a-few-new-rangers/)
The National Park Service is among the worst on diversity of all federal agencies. For a read on how the agency’s own employees feel about it, check out the 2013 “The Best Places to Work” report, which scores departments based on the yearly Federal Employee Viewpoint Survey. According to the report, NPS has one of the lowest scores for diversity, ranked number 258 out of 300 agencies scored. For African Americans, it’s ranked 150 out of 195.
I would have thought "one of the worst" would imply bottom 10%, but 258 out of 300 makes it 14th percentile, and 150 out of 195 comes to 23% - not even in the bottom 20%. So considerably worse than average, but not exactly "one of the worst". And that's assuming that the criteria were chosen justly and reasonably.
P.S. That "23%" should have been spelled out as "23rd percentile" for clarity.
jimbino: Angle-Dyne doesn't seem to get the idea that subsidizing white country-club parks and forests...
"Country clubs", lol. Throwing around tendentious phrases isn't an argument.
Neither is assuming everybody shares your bullshit libertardian premises. That "government subsidy and implicit taxes" (aka, "taxes") should never be used to fund public goods is neither a universally shared view nor some kind of law. It's your opinion, jimbo, nothing more. And ljl at the hand-wringing link about "lack of diversity" and your assumption that everyone is of course scandalized at the fact that a particular public good is used disproportionately by citizens of a particular racial or ethnic persuasion. (Oh, the humanity.) In the hierarchy of shitty fallacious argumentation, question-begging is considerably lower on the coherence scale than the ad hominems that so distress you in chickenlittle's post.
You have a gigantic, decades-old buzzing bug up your butt about "white people" and national parks, and considering that you're all for having taxpayers subsidize your labor costs (we know how put out at you are at having to pay First World rates for workers, when you feel entitled to getting their labor at Third World rates), nobody buys that this perennial, peculiar animosity has anything to do with vestal-virgin-pure libertarian principles.
When I see you droning on about the "chitlins and menudo" subsidies for years on end, here and elsewhere, I'll take your libertarian posturing, if not your intelligence, more seriously.
Americans are not children in need of constant adult supervision.
Most of these parks should be privatized.
And most of the federal lands should be returned to the states.
People are running ATVs and jeeps around the park areas on the Olympic Peninsula, and dragging in pallets and diesel to make fires to warm up with. None of that is allowed.
anti-de Sitter space said...
People are running ATVs and jeeps around the park areas on the Olympic Peninsula, and dragging in pallets and diesel to make fires to warm up with. None of that is allowed.
So what you're saying is, people, ordinary tax paying citizens, are out enjoying themselves on public land without fear of nanny state intrusion.
Hmmm... Seems you disapprove. I don't.
Gospace,
I didn’t express disapproval when my friends said that they were doing this, and that they met a bunch of others who were also trashing the park.
What would be the point? I’m very familiar with their mentality.
I once had an Asian friend who always threw his garbage out the car window. He said: “It’s not my country.” The American folks trashing the parks are less logical.
IMHO.
I always wonder what the H is doing when adSs types it.
Tragedy of the commons happens.
The way to stop tragedy of the commons is to assign property rights.
All else is nonsense of some variety or another.
I'm somewhat torn about the shutdown. I support it completely, but am being directly affected. I'm waiting for the FAA to issue my pilot Class I medical certificate which has to be reviewed but can't be done until after the shutdown. I can't fly until I have that certificate.
I must be missing something. I thought jimbino’s posts were sarcasm. Or at least a well-played troll job given that he keeps coming back. No way someone is that fucking moronic.
Visited Yosemite and Sequoia over the summer. Was struck by the high percentage of foreign visitors compared to those from the USA. I actually felt a little ashamed. We’ve got some of most spectacular real estate on the planet and we can’t be bothered to visit.
What a bunch of horse crap. Post hoc, ergo propter hoc implications from the dim bulbs at WaPo, where "Democracy Dies In Darkness" only because they fail to see the light.
anti-de Sitter space
You need a better class of friends. All my friends who build fires and party clean up afterwards. Of course, most of my friends are Scouters. Bring it in- carry it out.
As for your Asian friend- if he's a guest here, he's a bad guest. If he were in my house, I'd throw him out. Hey- He's in my country! If he's a guest here- he should be thrown out. If he's a citizen or here on green card, why does he have that attitude?
You need a better class of friends. I don't trash Canada when I visit. Didn't trash Tijuana when I visited there. The Mexicans trash it all on their own and don't need help....
"Yeah I'm with Mockturtle on this.When i visit our state and federal parks I always wonder why more Americans don't seem to visit the parks. The parks I've been to are generally not crowded or dirty."
There is a whole range of National Parks, ranging from Dem Presidents locking up land to prevent oil and gas exploration to our National Jewells. I have visited three of the latter (Rocky Mountain, Yellowstobe, and Glacier) on a semi frequent basis, and they tend to be zoos, esp on the roads, in the summer. I remember about 30 years ago trying to make dinner reservations At Chico Hotsprings just north of Yellowstone. At the time, rated one of the top resteraunts in MT. Bumper to bumper through the park. Our nerves were shot by the time we hit the north entrance to the park, and probably those of the other patrons whom we rushed around in our hurry. My kid went to the same summer camp that my brothers and I did by Estes Park, CO, and we were able, back in the 1960s, use far more of Rocky Mtn Nat Park than my kid did. But my father would tell us about what we missed when he went to camp around there the 1930s. And now, we try to make it into Glacier once a year, with it being right by Kallispell, one of the towns we visit in our biweekly shopping trips when we are in MT. Except last year, due to the forest fires. I will add Shanadoah, where we would go every 3-4 weeks during the summers when I was living in DC. Got out of the heat a little, and would actually see stars at night - something that I made stay take for granted, until you don't have it. That was the late 1970s, and the traffic was already bad there.
But the minor ones are very different. Visited one by Flagstaff, and there were maybe half a dozen cars or trucks in the parking lot - and I was the only one there with white skin. There were several East Asian visitors, some American Indians (pretty close to at least the Navajo Res), and about half Hispanic. And last month we visited her son and his family building a house right by Sagurro just east of Tucson. Absolutely deserted. But I can understand that. I am moved every time I drive Trail Ridge in Rocky Mountain, or the Road to the Sun in Glacier, because the views, above treelike, are spectacular. Though I probably drive Trail Ridge too fast, when I can, due to the number of times I have driven it. Sagurro is so stark and desolate - about all that you can see are cactus. A lot of cactus. My partner has decided that we are buying an RV this year, and one of the things that we are considering is stopping at the smaller parks along the way. Surprising how many of them there are, compared to what we had growing up. Except that I know we won't, because she doesn't really like stopping along the way to sate my curiosity.
I should add that one of the nice things about surviving into my 60s is acquisition of one of those lifetime federal recreation passes. Cost me $20 maybe 5 years ago (has apparently gone up since then), which was essentially paid for the first time we used it to get into one of the big Nat Parks. It works at Nat Parks, Nat Forests, BLM, etc. The absurdity is that it is only available to the demographic that has the most disposable income, and is likely to use it the most - those of us >= 62.
This post is atrocious. Are there any Americans who could die from Trump's neglect and malfeasance on whose behalf you'd actually defend their right to any justice?
Gospace,
They are deplorable. But we’re not supposed to say so.
And, technically, they’re domestic staff. Though they’re always inviting me to do stuff. Like shooting AR 15s. And trashing parks for freedom.
The Asian guy was a long time ago.
I saw Horseshoe Bend last summer. It’s a loosely controlled National Recreation Area, not a National Park. It has no fences, gates, railings, or (usually) rangers. It’s essentially just a parking lot by the side of the road, where you pull over and walk a half a mile right to the edge of a very high cliff. People dangle their legs over the edge as they pose for pictures. Once in a while someone slips and falls off the cliff to their certain death 1000 feet below. Government, or the lack of it, has zero involvement or responsibility when this happens.
"If only the parks were closed, "
I guess it could be thought that an NPS presence might have helped (advice, direction, prohibiting access to that particular venue, not the whole park). But better to say what you did, cleaner, easier to understand, more digestible.
President Pee-Pee Tape,
If you've been reading the comments, you know that the difference between deaths with rangers and deaths with no rangers is apparently zero. To be exact, from the numbers provided, technically deaths were lower w/o rangers, though obviously the difference isn't statistically significant. AA is right: It's not as though there's going to be a ranger there every time you slip or a tree falls on you.
Frankly, this beats the behavior of the Park Service during the last significant shutdown. You know, the one where they walled off everything on the Mall of America; put traffic cones everywhere visitors might have pulled over to photograph Mount Rushmore; stationed agents round Old Faithful purely to troup round the geyser only when it was about to go off, so that the Japanese tourists in the nearby lodge couldn't get a photograph that wasn't full of Park Service personnel; prohibited buses leaving from making any toilet stops, even at a privately-run dude ranch inside the park; &c. The Park Service was busier and in greater evidence when "shut down" than it ever was during normal operations. It was all astonishingly petty.
I think Ann is quite correct to say that Trump doesn't want more reports of ruined vacations, and that's why he's leaving the gift shops and the like shut, but still letting people into the parks themselves.
Jimbino, add me to the list of people who think it's idiotic to exclude Asians and Asian-Americans from park visitors, as though "black and brown people" were the only "minorities." (Or that people of Asian descent can't be "brown," for that matter.) "Hispanic" isn't even a racial designation, as George Zimmerman found out to his cost, despite being exactly as Hispanic as Obama is Black. (Don't even get me started on Tiger Woods, who is if anything more Thai than Black ...)
Someone mentioned the overflowing garbage cans on the Mall. This will seem weird, but if I have a piece of trash and see that there's obviously no place to put it in the bin, you know what I do? I take it home with me. Or, if not home, at least to a trash bin with space in it. I don't just throw it in the general direction of a massively-overflowing bin and consider duty done. But, no, it's just the WH lawn at the 2009 Obama inaugural all over again. Cleaning up after yourself, at least if you're not in the TEA Party, is someone else's chore.
So, the President left the oh-so-dangerous parks open. I didn't hear the he vetoed any funding bills, like the one sent before the Democratic take-over of the House. I imagine Senator Schumer told McConnell that there'd be no end of bad publicity and filibuster , if McConnell acted as if McConnell were majority leader, and brought the old House bill to a vote. I blame Reagan, Obi-wan, and Sauron.
Filed under: keep running stories up the flag pole until people start giving a shit about the government shutdown. The longer it goes on, the more people (should) realize we don’t need most of the government.
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