Instapundit linked to my post, in which I had said that before we can analyze whether Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump might succeed in healing racial divisions, we need to examine why Barack Obama has failed.
I don't give an answer in my post, but I fully expected to hear the answer: Barack Obama never intended to bring racial harmony. That is, he's only failed to achieve a goal the question assumed he had. That's not failure, that's success.
As Instapundit puts it, Obama was sold as a new hope for racial healing, but "it's not how he ruled" and: "President Chaos Umpire has no interest in racial healing."
I expected that. But I don't personally agree with it. It's a neat answer, a red-meat answer, but I think the situation is much more complex. I don't know who — if anyone — completely believed that Hope-poster Obama would magically solve all the racial problems in this country. Perhaps some people who didn't vote for Obama thought that now that we've elected a black President, everyone should stop talking about racial problems.
The problems are complicated, drawing them out makes them look worse, but some people think that looking at them is part of whatever progress could be made in solving them. And some people think those who are trying to expose problems are making them worse, and it would be better to stop talking about race altogether.
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१२९ टिप्पण्या:
Or maybe presidents don't bring racial healing and anyone who expects them to has an unrealistic image of what a president can or should do.
And things only seem worse in this country because there's so much more communication now. These divisions were always here, we just now are living in an age where everyone's opinion is more widely shared, and every camera-phone recording of a racial incident gets blasted all over the place.
Perhaps he thought he was trying to help. But his actions show a fundamentally different way of looking at problems and seeking solutions than my own.
Examples abound:
- New Black Panther voter intimidation suit dropped
- Holder dalling America "cowards" for not having a dialog
- Police screwed up - Beer summit
- If I had a son he'd look like Trayvon
- Al Sharpton with an open invitation (I know many will disagree on this. But Sharpton has, IMO, a body count to deal with as well as being racially polarizing)
There are many more.
I have no idea of the answer, but I wonder how many people would relate to the section from Miami and The Siege when Mailer's upset that Ralph Abernathy is late to his press conference. Instapundit seems to suggest that there are many who do.
Obama fed the fire and made is all worse when he could have given the signal for peace and calm.
Saying stupid things like "Treyvon could be my son" and his misleading comments on Ferguson - he gave the signal that it's OK to seek revenge.
"Perhaps some people who didn't vote for Obama thought that now that we've elected a black President, everyone should stop talking about racial problems." Also way too simplistic. How about, some of us thought that maybe some black people would come to realize that the vast majority of America has moved beyond racism. That it might help to heal their generations-old, originally extremely well-founded, suspicions of the rest of us. That they might stop looking at anything done for their community as "reparations", and start thinking of us as being on the same team.
These were not ridiculous hopes.
Obama was a racial partisan. He has been selectively, and often incorrectly, assigning racist motivations to non-Black people he had never met, and before the incident had been investigated.
In cases where his favored groups were the offenders, he went to ridiculous lengths to deny a racist or religious motive.
So a Government Entity is unable to fix a problem.
Who could've predicted that.
When he adopted the factually false narratives in the Travon Martin and Ferguson incidents, he revealed his biases.
George Zimmerman was using justified force to defend himself from a beating. Anyone should use such force when possibly being beaten to death.
"Hands up, don't shoot" never happened. Michael Brown was a criminal who attacked a police officer and tried to take his gun. Anyone who tries to take a police officer's gun should expect to be shot. Every time.
What possible reason exists for a President of the United States to publically support and advance factually false narratives of non-existent racial disparities in deadly force by police?
Occam's Razor - he agrees with the narratives, the factually false narratives.
Why - to fundamentally transform the United States of America - into a tribal culture, just like the SDS platform called for in 1968.
Remember back in 2008 when some Republicans were asking "What does a community organizer do?"
Now we know. A community organizer isn't interested in solving racial issues. There's no paycheck in that. A community organizer is interested in constantly keeping people stirred up so they'll turn to him.
As for race, it's bullshit. While there are some minor genetic differences between people with ancestries from different parts of the world, the biggest difference is the color of their skin. We all all one species. We are one race - the human race. Everything else is bullshit.
Basil nails it. Brilliant.
What MikeR said.
Don't ignore his AG's reference to "my people" and his failure to correct that outrageous statement.
Because of his relatively young age we can look forward to decades of our newest ex-President's rhetoric (and his wife's) whenever an event that can possibly be construed as "racist" occurs.
It was clear in his first campaign that he wasn't a healer. The Rev Wright issue and Obama's associated lies made that very plain
Who wants to move beyond race and into a post racial world and who wants to live in the past and endlessly discuss injustices from 150 and 50 years ago?
The vast majority - and I mean 95% at least - of white Americans have moved way beyond the racialist ideology of the past, an ideology which was held by a minority even then. No one in America alive today has ever owned slaves or passed a Jim Crow law. But since then the Civil Rights laws have been passed and all vestiges of de jure segregation are long ended - thank God!
Hundreds of thousands of white Americans died to end slavery. Because they came to see the injustice of it. We all see the injustice of it.
The place to meet is in the future and not the past. The way to stop discriminating on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.
Democrats and the democrat media survive off of false narratives.
Obama hasn't simply failed to make things better, he has made things worse by acting in a manner that could be (and was) foreseen to likely lead to that outcome.
That's where the question of his motives comes in. I agree that he wants what's best for the United States...as he sees it. The problem is how he sees it. He thinks a multipolar world is better, but instead of making our allies stronger, he has chosen the easier route of making us weaker. He sees institutions as part of the problem, so he has set about weakening the institutions. But, as with Chesterton's (?) liberal, who removes the fence from the road without bothering to first find out why the fence was there, Obama is weakening institutions that serve vital functions without carefully thinking through the consequences of abandoning those functions.
Anything that makes blacks think that white owe them something makes it worse for blacks.
Whites mostly no longer care what blacks think. It's a political war between leftist whites and rightist whites, having nothing to do with blacks.
The correct advice for blacks is grow up. Do something for whites and you'll find dignity for yourselves. Whites aren't withholding dignity from you and can't give it to you.
I don't think Obama wants racial violence in America, but that is what he has gotten. He has never spoken completely honestly, like an academic with some integrity might, on race in America. How can he when race is a political weapon he can use to grow his own power?
There is a direct line between Obama's false and misleading statements on Ferguson and Treyvon ------- and white cops being gunned down by angry blacks.
Are blacks being unfairly targeted by police? Possibly. But those two high profile cases were not examples.
Expecting President Obama to heal America's race problems is like expecting a faith healer to make a blind man see or crippled child walk.
The answer has always been either police force or Christianity. Destroyer Obama has stopped both. That IS his agenda. He is intent on imploding the USA.
As a Canadian living in the states I have long believed you don't need "a conversation on race." that is not a call for honesty.
So do not believe the monster when he tells you that he is monstrous because others treat him as monstrous. He is monstrous because he lets the task of becoming human wait upon how others treat him; he may have a chance to rebel; part of what he will rebel against will be his own monstrousness. For a child, a correct waiting here is necessary, it is legitimate. It is part of the monster's monstrousness that he was never a child; he therefore has not lost what grownups have lost.
- Stanley Cavell
Lamar Gonna Set You Straight....
I'm Lamar, and I'm a Young Black Man, Proud and prone to Anger Issues. I can't help it: living amongst all these White People with their Little White Problems just makes me Angry. Try MY Problems, Bitches...
I tell you all and I tell you all, but you just keep talking like it ain't true: Race in America will never be solved. You shit in the batter, now you gotta eat the cake...
Tell you what: if White People were to give me a million dollars I'd live a Better Life -- Hell yeah I would -- but that don't mean I'd now like me White People better, I'd just have the money to get the fuck away from you all...
And if you have a Million to give me that means you got LOTS more than that, so you're probably trying to buy me off, cheap: I know how you White People are. And that's the thick of it, right there: us Black People know how you White People are, and that ain't who we wanna be near...
Sure, there are always some blacks who'll play the Game and Act White, but there'll never be enough to make much difference: you all are gonna replace us with Robots anyhow, because you're gonna have your Slaves, one way or another...
So go on talking about how it could be all better while you sip your coffee and read your Sports Page about the Black Men on "Your Team": you like some of those Ones, if they Win for you and if they don't got many tattoos, right?
Cause if they don't Win: they're just Stupid Good-for-Nothing Blacks again, with tattoos like Thugs...
You think you got Problems? Fuck You.
I am Laslo.
So why can't we do anything about failed approaches yesterday and today before more people die tomorrow? It's starting to look like it has to play out.
"The Rev Wright issue and Obama's associated lies made that very plain"
That was the beginning of it. He obviously bought into the middle/upper class black resentment, which was not based on real prejudice that those people rarely if ever saw. It is the resentment we saw with Oprah Winfrey when the woman in Paris suggested a $25,000 purse might be too expensive for her.
Then the policy choices he made, like Obamacare and the "Stimulus" didn't work out well and he had to worry about elections and black turnout. The 2010 backlash to the failure of Democrat rule. Suddenly, they needed that black vote badly and the way to get it was to fan the flames of black racial resentment.
Democrat policies, especially since they turned Socialist, don't work. All they have is class envy which they have pretty much abandoned as they adopted the new hedge fund/ crony capitalist/ professorial/ black resentment alliance.
The unions, except public employee unions, are lost to them.
AA: "I don't know who — if anyone — completely believed that Hope-poster Obama would magically solve all the racial problems in this country. Perhaps some people who didn't vote for Obama thought that now that we've elected a black President, everyone should stop talking about racial problems."
A bit of a strawman. Nobody thought that Obama would "magically" solve all the racial problems. People did think - and Obama claimed - that he would make things incrementally better. He didn't.
The problem is that Leftism uses racial strife to erode US institutions and US culture, with the hopes of achieving Leftist ends: less capitalism, more government, less Christianity, more secularism, less individualism, more collectivism.
"All they have is class envy which they have pretty much abandoned as they adopted the new hedge fund/ crony capitalist/ professorial/ black resentment alliance."
It's called a 'low-high alliance' or a 'low-high coalition.'
Ken B said...
As a Canadian living in the states I have long believed you don't need "a conversation on race." that is not a call for honesty.
Every call for a "dialog on race" or a "conversation about race" has been a sham. Instead, what followed was nothing more than a demand for white people to sit down, shut up, and listen to a monologue of how we're the cause of everyone else's problems. Screw that.
Race is bullshit. Culture and character are what matters.
As the US becomes less white, it's not becoming more black. Latinos and Asians are as fed up with blacks violence and dysfunction as whites
Obama did seek to improve racial harmony in this country and failed miserably with the black community, though his actions did not line up with his stated goals either. You don't bring about racial harmony by supporting mob justice repeatedly. Whether it be the harvard professor/cop, trayvon martin, or many other situations - you show calm, you assure the public, and the work hard to ensure justice is done.
Further, the black community has done horribly under Obama. Unemployment, especially among 18-24 year old blacks, is awful and not declining like it is for other races. 16.3% for 20-24 year old blacks vs. 8.4% for Hispanic, 7.4% for Asian, and 7.2% for white. And of course it's higher for men.
What do you get when you have 20% - an entire quintile - unemployment of prime age young men 18-24 that DOESNT go away for many years? You get crime.
But let's not bring attention to the economic realities of the black community, the loss of family structure, or the resulting crime tendencies in urban centers when lots of young men are without jobs and come from broken families for long periods of time.
I very much want to see as much racial harmony as possible, but the incidents of police harassment or worse are topics that are being put front and center as problems of racism - when the real issues are far more pervasive.
Occam's razor: Obama's a racist.
Ask any typical white person.
Obama is a white guy inside a black body. It was Valerie Jarret who injected race prominently during the 2008 campaign, (there is a MYT article about that, google it) and she and perhaps Holder are the two masterminds behind the AA activists and their 'movements.' AA activists are not interested in bringing about positive change because they are the proprietors of the grievance industry that they have become which they want to continue. As usual lazy Obama didn't use this opportunity to bring about positive change. One positive change would have been to erase the anger that the AAs feel in general. He could have done something about that with his reactions and rhetoric but I guess Jarret won that contest.
I do see a positive change in other areas unrelated to Obama but definitely as a result of Obama being elected. Have you all noticed the rise in the ads featuring AAs now? It is good, jobs for AAs and more acceptability and aspiration.
Republicans can totally change the landscape now if they go after AAs for their vote in a conciliatory and helpful manner. Newt G. was already talking about that.
For those who voted to elect Obama I suspect it was more about how it made them feel, that it was a sign of how they weren't afraid to elect a Black man President and not so much about what, if anything, Barack Obama could or would be willing to do to improve race relations in this country.
And really why should anyone have thought he would or could do anything? Because he's African-Aamerican? Which has to be a fairly racist way to think, yes? That if you're a minority you must have some innate ability and desire to improve race relations in this country. It's like saying every tall Black man must be able to play basketball.
"Or maybe presidents don't bring racial healing and anyone who expects them to has an unrealistic image of what a president can or should do."
The U.S. President can't fix racial problems by decree, BUT, the President does have a hugely powerful bully pulpit, which can be used to antagonize racial situations, or to defuse them, or, they could just be ignored.
What is all to unfortunately obvious is that Pres. Obama routinely antagonizes racial situations, for apparent political gain. Once might be an error, a poorly chosen offhand remark that was picked up by the press, but, by now we have an obvious pattern. And, it's not a very attractive one.
"I have no idea of the answer, but I wonder how many people would relate to the section from Miami and The Siege when Mailer's upset that Ralph Abernathy is late to his press conference. Instapundit seems to suggest that there are many who do."
Hey, thanks for bringing that up! That's on my list of things I plan to blog from the book. I'm so glad you're reading it with me and that you were struck by the same thing that got Meade and me going.
I'll have a post on that soon.
Ann said: "And some people think those who are trying to expose problems are making them worse, and it would be better to stop talking about race altogether."
Ken B said: "As a Canadian living in the states I have long believed you don't need "a conversation on race." that is not a call for honesty."
The current conversation is hostile, dishonest and undignified. The facts about the Louisiana and Minnesota incidents are still quite fluid. No one really knows what happened. So the mindless response is riots, hate speech, dead and injured police officers and accusations against the white populace.
Given a choice between the current "conversation" and no conversation, I'll vote no conversation. Let me know when the responsible, honest adults show up and we'll talk.
AA: "I don't know who — if anyone — completely believed that Hope-poster Obama would magically solve all the racial problems in this country. Perhaps some people who didn't vote for Obama thought that now that we've elected a black President, everyone should stop talking about racial problems."
I'd argue that the racial healing pitch supplied by O'Bama was a strong selling point to independents who closed their eyes to Rev Wright. I think very few conservatives were willing to ignore the Rev Wright angle and buy into the Healer meme on race or lowering oceans, or outreach to Muslims.
I'm not sure I'd go as far as Basil on the topic of tribalism as the SDS engine of societal destruction and put that on O'Bama's back, but O'Bama certainly bought into the Dem view of interest group politics, and played to his strongest interested groups and still does.
On July 7th, he was castigating LE with half truths about legal system disparities that don't consider the underlying facts of who commits the largest numbers of violent crimes. He lauded BLM. That night, you have cop killings in Dallas. O'Bama didn't cause the shootings, but he continues to feed the anger...
Regardless of the truth, Obama has found certain division-inflaming narratives too politically tempting to resist, and he's repeatedly offered them legitimacy.
When Obama says in response to the shootings of the Dallas police that "there can be no excuse for actions like this", implied is "I've looked for an excuse, and can't find one" and you can believe he has.
Did Obama intend to heal, or inflame racial strife in America 8 years ago when he took the presidency ? I have no idea.
But it seems absurd to think that someone who was at best a halfrican American who had, and will continue to live in more of an ivory tower than the average white American could.
Obama is a white guy inside a black body. It was Valerie Jarret who injected race prominently during the 2008 campaign
I wouldn't discount the First Lady's influence either.
That the racial problems are worse than before he took office is a bit of evidence that he never sought to resolve the problems...
To give Obama a hint: When a killer says he wants to kill whites and white cops in particular, claiming you have "no idea" why the killer did what he did poisons the well. If one expects whites to deal with his admonishments appropriately, he'd best offer similar ones for others. If he doesn't, people look at him as if he were a racist.
"Obama is a white guy inside a black body."
Lamar explained this before. What kind of Black Man is Obama? The kind of Black Man most of you White People pretend to like. What makes you think us Hardcore Blacks are gonna be all excited about YOUR idea of a Good Black Man?
I am Laslo.
"If you want to ignite race riots, a sure-fire way to do it is to stir up black hatred and suspicion of cops, which will in turn make cops warier of blacks and more trigger-happy, and so on, until an explosion occurs. So thanks, President Obama. You have set back American race relations by 50 years.
http://www.city-journal.org/html/americas-worst-president-14640.html
It is my understanding that Obama has pretty much failed at every task he has been assigned to - and assigned to is key, always working in some organization not of his making. He does not understand people as a politician needs to, and he is no leader. He is "the man in the grey flannel suit," except that these days the suit is dark blue and not flannel.
Althouse doesn't want to see what is plain in front of her nose. Obamas words reveal that he isn't interested in racial harmony.
1. He cries "racism" after everyone of these dubious shootings, thus delegitimizing any investigation into the facts before making a judgement.
2. He talks about the police as if they were some monolithic block, trained to be racists.
3. He NEVER talks about the dysfunctional communities of criminal and criminal supporting blacks and the resulting violence in those communities.
Obama is a race agitator in these matters, stirring the pot, rather than calling for calm and justice. Althouse cannot acknowledge this, because that's her political blind spot.
How are we going to have racial healing when Obama is always playing the race card? And the crooked Dems get the blacks pissed off so they'll go to the polls to vote for the Dems.
It was the only way they could get Obama reelected in 2012 along with the assistance of Candy Crowley and the crooked liberal media.
The Democrat Party governs by divide and rule. They are constantly searching for wedge issues with which to vilify their opponents and frighten their base to keep them on the Democrat vote plantation.
For instance, if 50% of black Americans voted for Trump because they thought low wage illegal immigrants were taking jobs from Americans and keeping wages low then Hillary would be toast.
It will be interesting to see how minority Americans respond to Trump, there may be some people in for a surprise.
MikeR nailed it:
""Perhaps some people who didn't vote for Obama thought that now that we've elected a black President, everyone should stop talking about racial problems." Also way too simplistic. How about, some of us thought that maybe some black people would come to realize that the vast majority of America has moved beyond racism. That it might help to heal their generations-old, originally extremely well-founded, suspicions of the rest of us. That they might stop looking at anything done for their community as "reparations", and start thinking of us as being on the same team.
These were not ridiculous hopes."
" He is "the man in the grey flannel suit,"
The guy that book was written about was a far better man than Obama.
He was a guy home from the war trying to get his life back.
Obama is a race hustler.
As a New Yorker, I saw the Same scenario played out before and during the Dinkins administration. Liberals and the media decided it was time for New York to have a black mayor. Ed Koch was so good at being mayor and the city had improved so much that people thought it must be an easy job, you're just a figurehead while the city runs itself. The city hadn't had a race riot in decades but somehow we all needed "racial healing" and a black mayor -- any black mayor -- would do the trick. So they found this dim, talentless, back room political hack who hadn't paid his taxes in four years and said, "Guess what? You're going to be our mayor! All you have to do is be black." Then, because it turned being mayor is an actual job that requires tremendous skill, talent and drive, the economy went south, crime went way up, businesses and people fled New York like they did in the 60's and, oh yeah, racial tensions flared up like never before.
In 2008 it was clear to me at least that history would repeat itself not as farce but an even bigger tragedy, it so it has. Fun fact: In both cases, Al Sharpton was/is the right hand man to the boss, supposedly putting out the fires he keeps lighting.
It is one thing to expose problems and to analyze and discuss them in all their complexity; it is another thing to shoehorn what happens into a pre-existing narrative and to feed the fires you are supposed to be controlling.
"President Chaos Umpire has no interest in racial healing."
I expected that. But I don't personally agree with it. It's a neat answer, a red-meat answer, but I think the situation is much more complex.
Of course the situation is complex! Duh! But I and others like me think that more could have been done to make things better, and that instead there have been actions taken to exacerbate racial animosities.
I don't know who — if anyone — completely believed that Hope-poster Obama would magically solve all the racial problems in this country.
Despite the artful way you framed it, Professor, this is a straw man and you should be ashamed of yourself. No person comes to the presidency with a pocket full of "magic." Could Barack Obama have made things better? Yes. Did he instead make them worse? Yes again. Does it matter whether he deliberately set out to achieve more racial polarization or whether he genuinely believed that his actions and speeches would do the opposite of what they did? No. Not in the real world.
The problems are complicated, drawing them out makes them look worse, but some people think that looking at them is part of whatever progress could be made in solving them. And some people think those who are trying to expose problems are making them worse, and it would be better to stop talking about race altogether.
Fallacy of false choice, Professor, perhaps to ameliorate your self-disgust at having fallen for this man's BS back in '08. By all means let's look at the problems, but maybe this time let's genuinely look at the problems. If you join with Barack Obama in believing that the problems of the Black community are due to the white racism of fifty years ago, then you are the problem.
"Obama is a race agitator in these matters, stirring the pot, rather than calling for calm and justice. Althouse cannot acknowledge this, because that's her political blind spot."
Spot on !!!
Michael K is sorta right - I did have "the man in the grey flannel suit" confused a bit with "the organization man," but reading the Wikipedia entry, there is a bit of the same if you disregard "the hero's" actual record and a perhaps reasonable wish to just work "9 to 5" after all that.
There are no heroic struggles, or whatever, in Obama's background. He always was a "privileged character" as we used to say in the army.
The worse thing that Obama has going for him, is the simple fact that everything he touches turns to shit.
I imagine, like lowering the seas, closing Guantanamo Bay, ending the wars and making an effective health care law -- Obama expected that solutions would be easy with minimal fuss. He tried, but he kind of gave up. Which is a shame: We could have some real progress with effort.
"The situation is much more complex."
The refuge of every clerisy whose narrative is under attack by reality. Occam's Razor is never applied--its racist or something.
Dallas preacher leading the "peaceful" BLM protestors in chanting "God Damn White Americans" (a Jeremiah Wright standard), just before the shooter cuts loose on white Dallas cops. Shooter tells cops he's inspired by BLM and the narrative it (and the President) have been promoting, that the 3 shootings by cops the week before were part of a systemic pattern, white cops everywhere targeting young blacks.
But Obama is absolutely mystified by the complexity of discovering what the shooter's motives were-- even as he's certain that it had nothing whatsoever to do with his statements or Black Lives Matter.
Basil said...
Hundreds of thousands of white Americans died to end slavery.
Well, maybe as a side effect. Lincoln was clear that his concern was forcing states to remain part of the US; slavery wasn't the issue.
"If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it; and if could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it. … What I do about Slavery and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save this Union."
Funny title below, IMHO, because I think Lincoln was the worst president (killing over half a million people to maintain political boundaries), or at best tied with FDR for that honor:
America’s Worst President?
"I nominate Barack Obama, the anti-Lincoln."
It was possible to believe the hopes were not ridiculous, back then. What accumulation of evidence would be required for you to believe that that good-hearted belief was mistaken?
"Althouse doesn't want to see what is plain in front of her nose. Obamas words reveal that he isn't interested in racial harmony." Plain is boring. Can't run a blog on that. Especially if you need to discount the evidence. The rationalization of the '08 vote continues.
>>Obama is a race agitator
"Community Organizer"
Well, maybe as a side effect. Lincoln was clear that his concern was forcing states to remain part of the US; slavery wasn't the issue.
The only reason why the Republican Party was founded was slavery.
Lincoln was trying to finesse the issue and avoid the war.
If he could get the South to accept something other than unfettered (Sorry) slavery, he would do it.
You sound like a Confederate revisionist.
His first attempts were about compensation.
I believe you are mistaken. In every instance Obama and holder have taken a position to divide this country. He is just another democrat racist politician. They are legion.
"And that part about "Stop talking about it" - nothing makes more sense. Since racist acts were already against the law and had been diminishing, the best way to extinguish, or seriously curtail, the remaining racism was to stop talking about it, to stop making such a big deal about it, to call each other by our names and not our races and let the racial scab slowly heal and disappear."
However we got Obama our first affirmative action president who was able to fulfill his goal of transforming America and also becoming our worst president by setting back race relations by fifty years.
https://pjmedia.com/diaryofamadvoter/2016/07/10/why-race-relations-have-gotten-so-much-worse/
Fernandinande said...
Basil said...
Hundreds of thousands of white Americans died to end slavery.
Well, maybe as a side effect. Lincoln was clear that his concern was forcing states to remain part of the US; slavery wasn't the issue."
Slavery was always the issue. If not for slavery there would have been no reason for the rebellion. Also note after losing a number of battles and with the Union death toll becoming shocking to the Northerners Lincoln needed a moral justification to continue to prosecute the war, merely restoring the Union was no longer enough of a cause for too many Northerners at that point.
Fernandinande said...
Well, maybe as a side effect. Lincoln was clear that his concern was forcing states to remain part of the US; slavery wasn't the issue.
It was not a side effect. Lincoln became President only because of slavery, and the south seceded only because of that fact. Lincoln's focus at the time of that quote doesn't change the reality fact. The quote was a PR effort.
Exactly what are the problems and complexities you are alluding to. Don't talk in generalities and sound like goodie goodshoes because that doesn't get it done. Note your responses, they are just vents and rants, just like mine. SOP I guess , but it is good for the soul.
Individual dignity and intrinsic value are alien concepts in a Pro-Choice culture. The policies of class diversity mongering, progressive welfare, and excessive immigration (e.g. refugee crises, illegal immigration) only serve to exacerbate the consequences of a Pro-Choice religious/moral philosophy.
Obama and the liberals bullshit because the truth isn't the preferred narrative.
"Before he received his just reward, Micah Johnson left no doubt about why he had gone on his killing spree in Dallas. Johnson wanted to kill white people, especially white officers, he told the police officers who were closing in on him.
Clearly, Johnson hated white people. He was driven by racism.
Johnson’s statement wasn’t good enough for President Obama, though. According to Obama, it is “very hard to untangle the motives of this shooter.”
Nonsense. One might discuss the origins of Johnson’s intense hatred for whites and whether mental illness contributed, as Obama seemed to suggest. But Johnson’s motive is clear. It’s as clear as Dylann Roof’s motive for killing blacks in Charleston, South Carolina — a motive no one had trouble untangling."
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/07/obama-and-company-decline-to-speak-honestly-about-dallas.php
Well, no. You're attacking a strawman, Ann. No one really expected that Obama would cure ALL our nation's racial problems. The criticism is that Obama could have at least improved race relations with steady and respectful leadership, but instead race relations have deteriorated significantly since he took office.
The problem with Obama is that he stirs racial grievance among blacks by inserting himself in almost any local story that involves race, and has done so ever since his friend Skip Gates's incident with the "stupid" white police officer in Cambridge, MA. And who can forget Trayvon Martin, Obama's hypothetical son? The man has been divisive from the start, and not surprisingly blacks have heeded his call to agitate and so on. He really is a community organizer at heart.
I think a moderate black Republican like Colin Powell would have done far more to improve race relations in this country. He would probably have taken a more neutral stance or, better yet, not placed the office of the presidency in the middle of these sensationalist stories. I think he would have been more of a role model than an agitator-in-chief.
"I expected that. But I don't personally agree with it. It's a neat answer, a red-meat answer, but I think the situation is much more complex. I don't know who — if anyone — completely believed that Hope-poster Obama would magically solve all the racial problems in this country"
Obviously those voters did. What else could explain the magical thinking the a man with as thin a resume as Obama, a man that was nothing more than an affirmative-action, jumped upped junior state senator was remotely qualified to be president? Indeed considering we are still in the thrall of iconic symbolism this country is on the verge of electing a grifter, criminal, traitor and government certified ignorant fool as president simply because it's time for the next totem on thee pole to take their place.
Obama isn't the right person to address racial matters. Only the choir listens to someone who claims opposition to his opinions is due to his race.
There is plenty of room for improvement and plenty of middle grounders who want this. Someone capable of extending goodwill might find fertile ground. But any effort which begins with demonizing the other side is doomed.
Obama needs to cut a switch and teach his sons to behave.
"Could Barack Obama have made things better? Yes. Did he instead make them worse? Yes again. Does it matter whether he deliberately set out to achieve more racial polarization or whether he genuinely believed that his actions and speeches would do the opposite of what they did? No. Not in the real world."
...but it does matter in the leftist world, where intentions matter, while effort and results do not.
See also: Head Start, No Child Left Behind, NYC, Detroit, Venezuela, terrible mercury-filled light bulbs, D vs. R charitable giving...
"The problems are complicated, drawing them out makes them look worse, but some people think that looking at them is part of whatever progress could be made in solving them."
Talking about your problems is bull. There is a reason for the saying "time heals" because with time the memory of an awful event or the death of a loved one fades and so it isn't felt as vividly. Though time never completely heals, the pain is less intense with the passage of time. I read a few years ago that studies had shown that holocaust survivors who were better at suppressing their holocaust memories lived healthier and happier lives. That is something that most of us know as just common sense.
I don't accept the premise that President Obama has failed (in either the first way Althouse has offered, or the second), but one can see a large part of the problem by reading the comments on this blog - he was never going to be able to deliver that side to the racial reconciliation.
Is this going to be the "problem of the summer 2016"? The protests may very well continue through the conventions to the end of July. In August, I expect, we will all root for all our athletes at the Olympics.
But the notion that this is a problem for a single summer, isn't that part of the problem?
Interesting to me - the New Black Panthers are demanding their own country. I am almost willing to give it to them. Except that they would have to pay for their own welfare, their own civic resource, etc. See how many of those baby mamas keep having kids out of wedlock when the checks from uncle sugar dry up.
@dreams I read a few years ago that studies had shown that holocaust survivors who were better at suppressing their holocaust memories lived healthier and happier lives. That is something that most of us know as just common sense.
The less we talk about race, the better off ALL of us will be! Digging at the same wounds over and over always yields the same results and healing never comes.
"one can see a large part of the problem by reading the comments on this blog"
Yes, there are differences of opinion. What a shock !
"But the notion that this is a problem for a single summer, isn't that part of the problem?"
No, it is part of the recognition that there are serious problems that are likely to get worse as the election approaches.
There is one political ideology that favors authoritarian approaches. Similar to those who think concealed carry should not be allowed and anyone who wants to carry a gun must do so openly. Or those who believe religious objections to participating in homosexual marriage should be punished by bankruptcy.
Then there is another ideology that encourages tolerance.
"Whites mostly no longer care what blacks think. It's a political war between leftist whites and rightist whites, having nothing to do with blacks"
They never really cared. But the White Left saw an opportunity to cynically exploit Blacks for political advantage, so instead of growing to equals in American society they've been relegated to being crippled poster children in some endless, vicious Leftist March-of-Dimes telethon.
The lectures to White's about the difficulties many blacks face would be effective if they accompanied lectures to blacks about their dysfunctional culture. Latinos are poor and face many of the same problems (graduation rates, teen pregnancy rates, illegitimacy rates) but they work hard and are not anywhere near as violent and have some commitment to family.
Black unemployment is much higher than Latino unemployment.
so instead of growing to equals in American society they've been relegated to being crippled poster children in some endless, vicious Leftist March-of-Dimes telethon.
That's an interesting analogy.
Obama was stoking the racial wars from day 1. He never campaigned as a "racial healer".
Why is that when reality presents facts confirming our biases that it all seems as simple as Occam's Razor, but when reality appears to us contradict our biases then everything is complex and nuancy. And no, that's not a misspelling or a typo, nuancy is snark.
Obama did what community organizers do - agitate.
He set out to change America and has. After year 1, it was obvious that he would use racial division to advance his agenda.
Obama has taken a weak position with clowns as the most noticeable supporters and provided validation. Cops are out to get blacks, and blacks need to resist such discriminatory actions.
I'm looking for statistics on how many "unarmed" black deaths by cop occurred in the absence of resistance.
I think a moderate black Republican like Colin Powell would have done far more to improve race relations in this country.
LOL, You think so? :)
- son of immigrants
- CCNY ROTC grad
- learns Yiddish working in an Orthodox furniture store
- successfully commands multiple racially diverse units before, during, and after Vietnam
But the White Left saw an opportunity to cynically exploit Blacks for political advantage, so instead of growing to equals in American society they've been relegated to being crippled poster children in some endless, vicious Leftist March-of-Dimes telethon.
Interesting use of March of Dimes. The March of Dimes was created to end the scourge of polio. They succeeded. So the March of Dime threw a victory celebration and disbanded right?
Nope...they found a new cause (birth defects..one they wouldn't have to worry about actually solving) and kept on going!
One of the reasons the Left isn't talking about Black youth violence is that they don't want to actually solve the problem.
Democrats trade on division. They are not served by ending racial disharmony, particularly during a presidential election year.
Democrats, by and large, also measure the worth of their politicians by what they say, not by what they do, and by election results. That is why there are Obamadupes like Left Bank, 11:14, who insist that Obama's failures are always attributable to intransigence on the "(other) side."
I readily admit to being on the other side from Obama and his misguided minions. Yet I fail to see why I should object to "racial reconciliation." If nothing else it might make me less likely to be the victim of a violent crime.
I can see quite clearly, however, the disadvantage to the Democrats. It might put their most reliable voting bloc at risk.
If this Althouse post was an answer to an exam question, she would give it an "F".
"Remember back in 2008 when some Republicans were asking "What does a community organizer do?"
Now we know. A community organizer isn't interested in solving racial issues. There's no paycheck in that. A community organizer is interested in constantly keeping people stirred up so they'll turn to him."
I am guessing I am the only living soul on this planet who read Obama's memoirs "dreams from my father". In this book Obama was quite explicit - the role of a community organizer is to come up with some excuse (real or not) to make people upset, and to get them "organized" into a left-wing group to promote left-wing agenda. The actual resolution of the issue which initially United them was of no importance, which is why the book meticulously records that even though Obama did organize a group, no issues which led to people's joining it were resolved in any way.
This is what Obama, liberals, BLM are doing now. The goal is NOT to make the country more peaceful, to lower the number of accidental killings of innocent people by police, or to lower crime rate. The goal is to radicalize and organize as many people as possible and to use them as storm troopers against the existing system.
I am saying again, read Obama's memoirs, it's all there. Just as it was sufficient to read Lenin and hitler to understand their worldview, it is good enough to read Obama's memoirs. He is quite explicit and he is not really hiding his goals and methods.
Yes, true, Obama is not as bad as Lenin or hitler. That's not the point though....
So far no one has mentioned a FAR WORSE objective of Obamas, i.e., the misguided (announced again today) attempt to unilaterally, by executive action, allow our nuclear deterrent to deteriorate via failure to modernize, while both Russia and China are currently modernizing their nuclear warheads like crazy and introducing new improved weapons delivery systems almost daily. THIS little scary bit of reality may be the most dangerous thing Obama has EVER done or WILL DO and threatens our very national survival. Compared to such actions, ALL ELSE is mere trivia--the re-arranging of the deck chairs on the Titanic..
"White identity politics" = fascism
Is it the "white" that equals fascism, or the identity politics? Or is "identity politics" only equal to fascism if whites are involved?
I can never understand any of this.
zerobama would only have brought racial harmony to this nation if he had delivered on the demand for reparations.
The point isn't that he did not magically solve all racial issues, it is that much all the actions he has taken could be seen by rational people to be bound to exacerbate racial divisions.
Hi, Just a technical note.
There are at least two "Unknowns" still commenting after last night's purge.
At least one of them is rational.
Could the rational one(s) please indicate this somehow, like signing "Joe Blow" at the bottom of his/her comment?
Just tossing that out there for the rational "Unknowns".
I realize there may be a technical reason for some commenters to be stuck with the name "Unknown".
Those of us who have posited that Obama engaged in behavior which made race relations worse, at least give the president the back-handed compliment of being smart. I think Obama correctly believed that he needed to keep his base fired up, not the least part of his base are African Americans. If he didn't know this would hurt race relations, then he is just stupid.
What was needed was not his blame anyone but the black in disputes. Obama didn't need to open his yap about Travon, Skip Gates or Ferguson; or at least he could have waited till the facts were in before exonerating the black men, who in all of these cases, were either partially or entirely to blame for what happened to them.
Do we think Obama wants gun sales to be setting record after record? I don't think that is what he intends and yet he can't shut up about guns. Does he just not notice the spike in sales every time he talks about them? So what is it? Stupid? Lack of self control? Or just needs to keep the political base solid? None of these look good for him.
What he could have done is be a statesman: He could have spoken frankly to blacks and said, "The fact that I am president should be all the proof you needs that America has mostly put racism behind it". "I would not have been elected president in a racist, predominantly white country." "What you all need to know is that you will make it here by following five simple rules".
1. Don't take drugs.
2. Don't get in trouble with the law.
3. Stay in school.
4. get a job.
5. Don't have kids till you have done the first three of these things AND are married.
The race agitator class would have been pissed, but Obama would have bought a ton of good will from whites and I think most African Americans would have said--finally! Someone who is willing to speak the truth to us and not pander.
TWW said...
If this Althouse post was an answer to an exam question, she would give it an "F".
7/11/16, 1:55 PM
Went right over your head, eh?
The problem with talking about race is that nobody listens anymore because:
1) Most Whites have heard it all, tried it all, and are tired of that waste of time, effort and cost for no improvement and no credit.
2) Many Blacks don't want to accept responsibility for the problems or the solutions which is why we have #1.
3) Too many people benefit in terms of power and money from race relations remaining poor.
If Jesus or Lucifer skateboarded up to people and offered them the ability to instantly eliminate race entirely from our collective memory so that nobody could see it anymore, who do you think would choose that option and who would not? It would change the balance for a lot of people. Do you think people like Al Sharpton or Obama would choose to lose everything race has brought them? I think most Whites would jump at the chance, and one reason would be to reverse the power and wealth the race hustlers have acquired by keeping race a problem.
Imagine offering a BLM activist that right this moment we can make the number of Blacks and Whites killed by cops identical according to population, but you have to go home and never talk about it again. What would most Whites say to that offer?
One has to feel bad for this Police Chief, he certainly has his hands full.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/david-brown-death-threats-dallas-police-shooting
"Dallas Police Chief David Brown said that he and his family received death threats “almost immediately after” a gunman fatally shot five police officers and wounded nine others at a Black Lives Matter rally last week.
“We're taking them all as credible, whether they can be confirmed or not,” Brown told reporters at a Monday press conference, noting that other officers in the department have received anonymous threats as well.
The police chief said the language of the threats was disturbing enough that the department is taking them all “very seriously,” “for the sake of our families.”
Brown said that while the Dallas community, mayor and other city officials have given his department “all the support we need,” he believes Americans demand too much of local police departments.
“We're asking cops to do too much in this country. We are. We're just asking us to do too much," he said. "Every societal failure, we put it off on the cops to solve. Not enough mental health funding. Let the cop handle it. Not enough drug addiction funding. Let's give it to the cops.""
Tommy Duncan said "Given a choice between the current "conversation" and no conversation, I'll vote no conversation. Let me know when the responsible, honest adults show up and we'll talk."
People calling for a "national conversation about race" really only want to tell white people what they can and cannot say about race, enforced by the threat of continued violence.
Taranto mentions Althouse here: http://www.wsj.com/articles/obama-and-race-relations-1468259312
White zerobama voters are to blame for projecting their hopes and dreams onto a political cipher so manifestly unqualified for the job; zerobama is to blame for being such a lousy leader.
Thanks for the tip Whiskey, hopefully Althouse will do a blogpost on it.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/obama-and-race-relations-1468259312
"But we’d like to offer a qualified defense of the president. It seems to us his statement that “there’s a big chunk of our fellow citizenry that feels as if because of the color of their skin, they are not being treated the same” is undeniably true, and for him not to acknowledge it in some way would be a breach of faith with black voters."
Good for Taranto for understanding this and saying it out loud.
"But we’d like to offer a qualified defense of the president. It seems to us his statement that “there’s a big chunk of our fellow citizenry that feels as if because of the color of their skin, they are not being treated the same” is undeniably true, and for him not to acknowledge it in some way would be a breach of faith with black voters."
Sounds like Obama wants to criticize affirmative action in college admissions, and in corporate and federal contracts and employment. Right? I mean, we know those are clearly examples of "not being treated the same", "because of the color of their skin"...
We have another shooting that is probably entangled with race.
Berrien County courthouse was the scene of a shooting in which a prisoner going to jail shot and killed two bailiffs.
That courthouse is in St Joseph Michigan a resort town but across the river is D+Benton Harbor which has a long history of black unrest and crime.
There have been full on race riots in Benton Harbor.
The prisoner is also dead. The longer before we hear his race, the more probable that he is black.
The problems are complicated, drawing them out makes them look worse, but some people think that looking at them is part of whatever progress could be made in solving them. And some people think those who are trying to expose problems are making them worse, and it would be better to stop talking about race altogether.
I don't think the problem is talking about race (although there's certainly compelling evidence for that proposition), but that the people who say they want to have a "conversation" about race actually just want to engage in transparently phony cant about race. They have a theory about how race works, a theory that is obviously inconsistent with the facts, so every fact must be bent and twisted until it fits the theory.
Thus Blacks can sing songs about how they're going to teach Koreans to fear the "black fist" and burn Koreatown, but Blacks can never be racist. You also see it in the repeated efforts to characterise Silicon Valley as dominated by White frat-boy programmers(!), which every time have to be walked back shamefacedly with a backhanded acknowledgement that actually Asians are massively overrepresented in Silicon Valley, so it's hardly a white-dominated environment. In most of the US today, the Black-White racial dichotomy is irrelevant.
So a frank and honest discussion of race would probably be cathartic, but I don't think it would lead to the kind of consensus the people who keep agitating for a conversation about race would want. And I don't think it would lead to a consensus that would be at all pleasing to the people behind BLM. So in that sense, it wouldn't produce racial harmony. And understandably so!
Just a Whites bristle when they're told that they're to blame for all anti-Black racism, e.g. when Hispanic gangs try to ethnically cleanse their territory of Blacks, Blacks are understandably going to bristle when told that they get arrested (and sometimes killed) by the police more often than Whites or Hispanics because Blacks make up a disproportionate fraction of perpetrators, or that all things being equal, police are actually less likely to use lethal force on Blacks than suspects of other races.
So I've talked my way around to the opposite of what I'd started with. The people who want to push ludicrous falsehoods about race in America through their one-way "conversation" do have it right in a way. The American public can't handle the truth. Better the noble lie, I suppose. At least if it holds off more of these damnable riots.
"First of all, I think it's very hard to untangle the motivers of this shooter," said Obama.
Who would want to have a conversation about race with this guy? How is a conversation beginning with such dishonesty going to be fruitful?
When I learned who "Reverend" Wright was and how Obama sat in his church listening to his sermons week after week, I knew who Obama was and what to expect from him. You see, when I was a junior in college, I was approached by two black men with stingy brim hats and narrow ties and lapels, to buy their newspaper Muhammad Speaks. I knew they were from Nation of Islam and was surprised they would try to sell one to a white guy, but I was a Poli Sci major taking Modern Political Theory, so hey.....I also got hold of an underground KKK newsletter and the two had the same message in reverse, although the Klan publication was cruder and more vulgar. So when the "Reverend" Wright story broke, an old fellow student from way back when called and and asked, "What to you make of Obama's pastor?" I said, "Muhammad Speaks." He laughed and said, "that's what I thought too."
Why did Liberals give him a pass on this and so many other mysterious inconsistencies in his past? I think it was because Obama was a totem to their narratives and their fantasies. The real Barack Obama, if that is his real name, is George Soros's and George Lakoff's monster.
The longer before we hear his race, the more probable that he is black.
Oh, hell yes! If it had been a white prisoner who killed a couple of black bailiffs, it would monopolize the media for weeks.
"(and sometimes killed) by the police more often than Whites)" Actually, no. See Roland Fryer, black Harvard econ prof, "AN EMPIRICAL ANALYSIS OF RACIAL DIFFERENCES IN POLICE USE OF FORCE." Just out on NBER. Take-away: "we fi nd no evidence of racial discrimination in o fficer-involved shootings."
"I don't know who — if anyone — completely believed that Hope-poster Obama would magically solve all the racial problems in this country."
That "completely" is carrying a lot of weight. And the formulation is a strawman argument. The issue is whether Obama has made thing better or worse. No "completely" or "magically" is required to determine in Obama has moved racial problems in the right direction. Sick of the hypocrisy.
an old fellow student from way back when called and and asked, "What to you make of Obama's pastor?" I said, "Muhammad Speaks." He laughed and said, "that's what I thought too."
Yup. I kind of liked the black Muslims because they got a lot of young blacks cleaned up and dressed well.
Then I learned about the ideology,
I already knew about Obama's record, which was nothing,
No surprises.
Obama was never going to be able to reach everybody, that's impossible no matter the subject and no matter the president. But Obama had something that no other president has had. Here was a black man in the presidency who had the opportunity to go down the path of Lincoln, the path of magnanimity, to let the past be the past and lead both whites and blacks toward the future.
Instead, his presidency more closely resembles the Radical Republicans post-Lincoln with its emphasis on trying to punish the losers. As with the Radical Republicans, it can work over the short term, but long term the policy set race relations back decades in the South, and ultimately as soon as the Republicans ended the policy for political reasons, blacks in the south were screwed politically for much of the next century with very little to show for the Radicals' program.
Perhaps there are examples of Obama trying to be that magnanimous uniter on racial issues, but I can't recall any examples of it.
That is always the question, "Are you just stupid, or are you lying to me?" It is very difficult to discern the answer. Is Barrak incapable of providing racial healing or is he creating disunion by plan under color of being a uniter. Various dignitaries have been credited with the quote "Do not assume malice when the facts are explained by incompetence," so there you are.
@Josephbleau/
Let me rephrase that question: "Buffoon or Charlatan?"
FIFY
PS: Ans? BOTH.
The longer before we hear his race, the more probable that he is black.
Oh, hell yes! If it had been a white prisoner who killed a couple of black bailiffs, it would monopolize the media for weeks.
----
The Michigan shooter of two white bailiffs is Larry Darnell Gordon. In the photos it's hard to tell his race. He could be white or he could be mixed. So if I was wrong, I apologize. Maybe the media couldn't tell, either. ;-)
Re:Sebastian:
I think that is a different study (though consistent!) from the study in the WaPo article I linked. So, two data points.
It's very hard to say what the right way to lead on race would have been. But I agree with many others commenting that Obama did not lead - at all. It's easy to see that when he talks he begins by saying that demonizing others is wrong, then he says that Republicans do demonize others which makes Republicans evil. Whites, he does the same. Police, the same. Gun owners, the same. So he is doing what he condemns. Isn't that insincere? And all the time - the smarmy voice as he reads from the teleprompter and then - off to the golf course. And by doing that over and over, he has rendered millions impermeable to any talk on race. More. A speech by him on 'let me count the ways I hate America today' is also a hidden Donald Trump fundraiser; TV of BLM screaming with hate at the police is also a hidden Donald Trump rally.
If we could have visualized the size of the chip on Obama's shoulder, he would never have been elected President. Which is surprising considering all he's been given. Maybe that's the problem.
"Larry Darnell Gordon"
By god, he is white !
That area of Michigan has serious racial issues but he seems to have panicked, maybe at going to prison.
Sad for the deputies and Bailiffs,
Shocking, simply shocking that a white man could commit such a crime.
Could Barack Obama have made things better? Yes. Did he instead make them worse? Yes again. Does it matter whether he deliberately set out to achieve more racial polarization or whether he genuinely believed that his actions and speeches would do the opposite of what they did? No. Not in the real world.
I defy anybody to explain, if this is true, why Bush's Iraq policy was bad. His goals were unbelievably optimistic and unquestionably good. Should it matter that they fucked shit up bad?
There is one political ideology that favors authoritarian approaches. Similar to those who think concealed carry should not be allowed and anyone who wants to carry a gun must do so openly. Or those who believe religious objections to participating in homosexual marriage should be punished by bankruptcy.
Thanks to SCOTUS, they also oppose allowing a pharmacy to refuse to stock a pill for moral reasons. ALL OTHER REASONS are OK, but moral/religious ones are not.
Shocking, simply shocking that a white man could commit such a crime.
Nobody ever claimed anything close to "Whites cannot commt such crimes"
Trump says he will build a wall, and get Mexico to pay for it.
RE: cyrus83:
Perhaps there are examples of Obama trying to be that magnanimous uniter on racial issues, but I can't recall any examples of it.
I think once, very early in his presidency, or possibly during the campaign, he made a reference to the problem of a segment of the African-American population being violently racist against Asians, in the context of one of his classic "pox on both your houses" rhetorical flourishes. I am too lazy to go looking for it now.
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